Politics Thread

hoopster68 · Yesterday, 03:21 AM

Originally Posted by xubrew

It’s definitely interesting. He was here illegally, but was granted protection from deportation by an immigration judge. Those two things seem to be in direct opposition to one another.

A judge ordered that he be returned, the SCOTUS upheld the ruling, but only sort of.

And, at this point, what can Trump really do? Now, I understand that if Trump actually wanted him released, and asked Bukele to release him, Bukele would probably do it. I also understand that Trump doesn’t really seem to care if he’s released or not. But, say he did care, and say Bukele didn’t want to release him. Could Trump really do anything?

Trump is the most powerful person in the world. . .he demands that Canada become the 51st state, wants to annex (conquer?) Greenland, and picks fights with America's most storied allies such as France, and yet you ask, "Could Trump really do anything?" The press conference with President Bukele was a staged event to show Trump at his meanest, most cruel and immoral. The US government made an error by sending Garcia to the prison in El Salvador. A simple phone call to Bukele would have solved the problem and Garcia would be back in the states. Rather, he is being used to show Trump's power over all. When will you folks wake up? Someday "they" will come for you (and me).

**xubrew** · Yesterday, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by hoopster68

Trump is the most powerful person in the world. . .he demands that Canada become the 51st state, wants to annex (conquer?) Greenland, and picks fights with America's most storied allies such as France, and yet you ask, "Could Trump really do anything?" The press conference with President Bukele was a staged event to show Trump at his meanest, most cruel and immoral. The US government made an error by sending Garcia to the prison in El Salvador. A simple phone call to Bukele would have solved the problem and Garcia would be back in the states. Rather, he is being used to show Trump's power over all. When will you folks wake up? Someday "they" will come for you (and me).

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this. It's pretty clear to me that if Trump felt this person should be allowed to return, then Garcia would be back in the country within a matter of hours (if he's still alive). And, I can see how it's even callous to be talking about what-ifs and other possible similar scenarios.

But...

Try to SUPPOSE that Trump did want him released and El Salvador did not want to release him. Let's use a different country. Let's say it was a student from Russia who was deported by mistake. Or, not even by mistake. Just for something stupid. They registered for 9hrs of in-person classes and took the rest online, one of the in-classes was cancelled, and they were suddenly technically below the minimum of in-person classes needed to stay in the country, and then got swept up in some mass government sweep, and was sent back to Russia. Once they're back in Russia, they are immediately arrested due to...I don't know...some anti-Putin social media posts they made while they were in the USA. The school they attended makes it unquestionably clear that it was not the student's fault, that they were in enough in person classes, but right before the semester began one of the classes was cancelled, and that they just hadn't been able to register for another one.

Hell, let's even say it was a student-athlete. They were recruited to come over here to play, certain people didn't like that they were playing over here for one of our colleges instead of over there for one of their clubs, and kind of had it out for them.

It's decided by virtually everyone in the USA that it was wrong to deport them and that this person should be allowed to return. But, they can't. They're back in Russia and locked up.

What can be done? It's a Russian citizen in a Russian prison.

**paulxu** · Yesterday, 07:37 AM

Pretty simple. Trump is paying this guy millions to house people he sends down there.
If he simply obeyed the Supreme Court to facilitate his return, I feel certain he could say...return the guy or no more money.
He'd be back in a heartbeat.
Whether Trump "felt like he should be returned" has nothing to do with it. His "feelings?" Really?
Contrast that with a visit to the White House to thumb their collective noses at the Supreme Court.

**xubrew** · Yesterday, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by paulxu

Pretty simple. Trump is paying this guy millions to house people he sends down there.
If he simply obeyed the Supreme Court to facilitate his return, I feel certain he could say...return the guy or no more money.
He'd be back in a heartbeat.
Whether Trump "felt like he should be returned" has nothing to do with it. His "feelings?" Really?
Contrast that with a visit to the White House to thumb their collective noses at the Supreme Court.

The question/issue of the Executive Branch ignoring the courts has been raised before.....

Originally Posted by xubrew

Strictly hypothetical question of Constitutional Procedure...

If a judge/court makes a ruling, and members of the Executive Branch just ignore it, then what??

And the answer is that nothing happens. There is no way to compel the president to obey a court order.

Originally Posted by xubrew

Thank you! If you sign up you get one free article, so I was able to read it. And, it did answer the question.

The answer is that there is no recourse. There are only a few instances in history where a President has not complied with a court's ruling, and each time nothing was done to make them obey it. It really hasn't happened since the Civil War, but if it were to happen, there is no mechanism to enforce the ruling. It would result in a Constitutional Crisis.

That's the answer.

xuphan · Yesterday, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by hoopster68

Trump is the most powerful person in the world. . .he demands that Canada become the 51st state, wants to annex (conquer?) Greenland, and picks fights with America's most storied allies such as France, and yet you ask, "Could Trump really do anything?" The press conference with President Bukele was a staged event to show Trump at his meanest, most cruel and immoral. The US government made an error by sending Garcia to the prison in El Salvador. A simple phone call to Bukele would have solved the problem and Garcia would be back in the states. Rather, he is being used to show Trump's power over all. When will you folks wake up? Someday "they" will come for you (and me).

Who is “they” and why would they come after us?

hoopster68 · Yesterday, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by xuphan

Who is “they” and why would they come after us?

XUPHAN: The Trump administration flunkies are "they." Stephen Miller is one example, Pam Bondi is another. "Why" they would come after you or your family: 'cause you dare to speak truth to power, whether on a personal level such as joining a demonstration or corporate level, such as Harvard did yesterday. Individuals and institutions are being harassed, arrested, jailed and deported and/or losing research grants for refusing to knuckle under to the Trumpster's rule. This will not end well.

**xubrew** · Yesterday, 10:52 AM

I think some really bad precedents are being set that should alarm everyone. Ignoring court orders, especially SCOTUS orders, is not a direction we want to go. The pendulum swings both ways, and Trump is paving the way for it to swing back hard the other way when it does swing back. We still have elections every two years, and presidential elections every four years.

They wanted to own the Libs!! Now it's the Libs turn to own the MAGAs!! Let the executive orders run wild!!! First day in office!!!....

-Everyone that was laid off by DOGE is reinstated! With back pay!!

-DEI is reinstated! Everywhere! Effective immediately!

-Pronouns are back!

-biological men who identify as women can play any sport they want and use any restroom they want!

-Certain activist groups that we like, such as Queers for Palestine, are eligible for federal funding!!

-Masks must once again be worn in public, but all other clothing is optional!!

-All the borders are now completely open!! Just come on in!! And, once they're here, we'll let them vote if they want to!

And....who's going to stop any of this?? The Supreme Court?? The precedent has now been set! The Executive Branch no longer needs to listen to them or obey any rulings they don't like. There's no recourse and no enforcement if we just ignore it! In fact, we're going to create a new court! An Executive Court of the United States! They, and only they, will rule on all issues that concern the Executive Branch, and all the judges will have lifetime appointments, and the new Super-Lib/Woke President that just got elected gets to pick all of them!!

So....MAYBE we should do a better job of respecting the checks and balances that are in place, and maybe rethink whether or not we should be abandoning soem of our political norms. Because once that starts happening things can get out of hand. And anything the current administration does while in office, the next administration can also do when it's their turn, and sooner or later it will be.

xuphan · Yesterday, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by hoopster68

XUPHAN: The Trump administration flunkies are "they." Stephen Miller is one example, Pam Bondi is another. "Why" they would come after you or your family: 'cause you dare to speak truth to power, whether on a personal level such as joining a demonstration or corporate level, such as Harvard did yesterday. Individuals and institutions are being harassed, arrested, jailed and deported and/or losing research grants for refusing to knuckle under to the Trumpster's rule. This will not end well.

This has been coming for awhile though and is the result of both parties being failures. Trump seized on an opportunity to be a Washington outsider claiming to drain the swamp of corruption in Washington. He ran and won against a terrible democratic nominee in Clinton and won this past year against another terrible candidate in Harris. I am not a fan of his rhetoric but you do have to give him a lot of credit for how he has gotten himself to this position and the base he has created in MAGA. No idea how it will end but both parties are to blame if it ends bad.