Politics Thread

[boozehound]

There is definitely a broader issue, I think, of when Police choose to escalate vs deescalate a situation. In a stressful situation accidentally grabbing a gun vs a taser is a mistake. It's a big mistake, but it certainly (at least can be) a mistake. There is a broader conversation to be had about whether Police should be shooting at fleeing suspects (with a taser or a gun). Unfortunately it's not one with an easy answer.

I have quite a few Police officers in the family. The sample size is very small (about 6), but more of them are people prone to escalating a confrontation vs deescalating at a ratio of 5:1. The one who is most level headed is a retired police chief, so he was by far the most successful. The one who was probably the least level headed is no longer a cop anymore, but we don't know why. He claims he was railroaded in some way or another, but we all are pretty sure he did something. He works security now. His kids are all kind of dicks, and are all police officers. They are also all moderately racist, based on the jokes they tell and comments they make.

It's a small sample size, and they may be outliers. But I sort of have an opinion that a lot of people who become cops are kind of eager for confrontation. Then you take the fact that many of the ones who work in more dangerous precincts are potentially a little more eager for confrontation (or newer to the force) than the average. You also have to consider that they deal with a more hostile and dangerous mix of people policing in higher crime areas, so their threshold for action is different that it probably is for cops in upscale areas with no real crime.

Really I think we need two things to happen: (1) Police reform and training to reduce Police shooting and (2) the public needs to have a balanced few of Police officers. They aren't all saints (conservatives, I'm looking at you), but they also have a dangerous job and aren't necessarily all consciously racist (liberals, I'm talking to you).

[Strange Brew]

There is definitely a broader issue, I think, of when Police choose to escalate vs deescalate a situation. In a stressful situation accidentally grabbing a gun vs a taser is a mistake. It's a big mistake, but it certainly (at least can be) a mistake. There is a broader conversation to be had about whether Police should be shooting at fleeing suspects (with a taser or a gun). Unfortunately it's not one with an easy answer.

I have quite a few Police officers in the family. The sample size is very small (about 6), but more of them are people prone to escalating a confrontation vs deescalating at a ratio of 5:1. The one who is most level headed is a retired police chief, so he was by far the most successful. The one who was probably the least level headed is no longer a cop anymore, but we don't know why. He claims he was railroaded in some way or another, but we all are pretty sure he did something. He works security now. His kids are all kind of dicks, and are all police officers. They are also all moderately racist, based on the jokes they tell and comments they make.

It's a small sample size, and they may be outliers. But I sort of have an opinion that a lot of people who become cops are kind of eager for confrontation. Then you take the fact that many of the ones who work in more dangerous precincts are potentially a little more eager for confrontation (or newer to the force) than the average. You also have to consider that they deal with a more hostile and dangerous mix of people policing in higher crime areas, so their threshold for action is different that it probably is for cops in upscale areas with no real crime.

Really I think we need two things to happen: (1) Police reform and training to reduce Police shooting and (2) the public needs to have a balanced few of Police officers. They aren't all saints (conservatives, I'm looking at you), but they also have a dangerous job and aren't necessarily all consciously racist (liberals, I'm talking to you).

Or don’t attempt to flee from police.

[boozehound]

Or don’t attempt to flee from police.

Yeah, I don't agree that fleeing from the police gives them cart blanche to use force as they see fit. By that standard they could show up to a house party and just start tasing (or shooting at) everyone who ran away. Maybe they roll up on some kids smoking weed in a park or something, the kids see the cops and take off, so they just start shooting.

It's an overly simple solution to a complex problem in my opinion. I don't think those really get us anywhere. This is a major issue, and I'm not sure how it gets solved, but it's probably going to require both 'sides' having some amount of empathy for the other's situation.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Or don’t attempt to flee from police.

Which is not a capital crime, google is your friend on something here. Brooklyn Center trains their cops to have their gun on one side of the their belt (strong) and their taser on the other. Now that you know that, does that change this a bit?

I know a few more than some cops. It's policy here in Phoenix that they are to deescalate situations. One explained this to me saying if he punched a cop in the face and immediately threw his hands in the air and surrendered, they were to arrest him and that is it. He told me that isn't what would happen, but it was department policy. I bet that is the case at a vast majority.

[Strange Brew]

Yeah, I don't agree that fleeing from the police gives them cart blanche to use force as they see fit. By that standard they could show up to a house party and just start tasing (or shooting at) everyone who ran away. Maybe they roll up on some kids smoking weed in a park or something, the kids see the cops and take off, so they just start shooting.

It's an overly simple solution to a complex problem in my opinion. I don't think those really get us anywhere. This is a major issue, and I'm not sure how it gets solved, but it's probably going to require both 'sides' having some amount of empathy for the other's situation.

I didn’t say it gives the right to use force but if there is a warrant for your arrest and you run you take the outcome out of your hands.

[Strange Brew]

Which is not a capital crime, google is your friend on something here. Brooklyn Center trains their cops to have their gun on one side of the their belt (strong) and their taser on the other. Now that you know that, does that change this a bit?

I know a few more than some cops. It's policy here in Phoenix that they are to deescalate situations. One explained this to me saying if he punched a cop in the face and immediately threw his hands in the air and surrendered, they were to arrest him and that is it. He told me that isn't what would happen, but it was department policy. I bet that is the case at a vast majority.

Obviously it’s not. Don’t need Google either to understand fleeing removes my opinion on the confrontation’s conclusion

[Xville]

Some here sympathize with criminals that’s nice. Kid had had 4 brushes with the law and he was only 20, but he “was a great kid, a normal kid.” Parents are the problem here as usual.

[Strange Brew]

Obviously it’s not. Don’t need Google either to understand fleeing removes my opinion on the confrontation’s conclusion

If an officer says you’re under arrest you have two options. Peacefully surrender or escalate the situation and leave the outcome to the officer. The officer is not a judge, lawyer or your friend. They have one purpose. Arrest you and get home that night.

[xu82]

I’m glad I was never a cop. When I made a bad mistake at work, we just might have to charge off a loan. Nobody died.

This sucks, for everybody. Both sides were wrong. Bad behavior followed by a tragic accident....

[boozehound]

Some here sympathize with criminals that’s nice.

I'm sorry, but I think that is wildly intellectually dishonest to the point that I wonder if you are being intentionally obtuse. What's your threshold of criminality before you stop sympathizing with someone being killed? Unpaid parking tickets? Driving without a license? Underage consumption? Those people are all 'criminals', right?