Politics Thread

[Caf]

So how are we spinning this new one?

So far it's, "The Dems didn't like him either!"

[boozehound]

That this is really a cover up of Huma Abedin and Anthony Weiner breaking the law.

Are you joking, or are you serious? I don't care which side of the aisle you are on this should be of MAJOR concern to almost anybody outside of Trump's inner circle. You just can't fire the Director of the FBI while he is investigating you and your campaign. I don't necessarily think that firing Comey in and of itself is a big deal, but you have to wait until the investigation has concluded. A trend is starting to emerge in which Trump is removing people that are investigating him and his people. We shouldn't tolerate that shit in America.

[boozehound]

Wow, saw the flash from this virtue signal in Denver. Well done. I'll ask YOU a simple question; how much of YOUR income are you willing to pay to achieve your ideal society? 60%? 90%?. I'm curious because you can easily overpay your obligation to the Treasury. Unless you FEEL charity is accomplished though others fulfilling your design for society?

I don't see what one person overpaying his obligation would accomplish. It's not like it would change policy.

One thing that I think often gets lost in the healthcare debate is the fact that the amount we pay in premiums is substantial to the average American, and could cover a modestly large increase in income taxes, particularly for middle income Americans.

Consider the following: My health insurance costs about $500 per month for an 80/20 PPO plan. My company has pretty good insurance and shares a good portion of the cost, so I don't pay as much as many others, but let's use that $500/mo as a benchmark.

If you make $240K per year that $500/mo amounts to 2.5% of gross monthly income ($20,000/$500). It's a pretty small percentage that isn't likely to be significant to that person't budget. Now let's say that you make closer to (but slightly above) the average income at $60K. Now that $500 monthly premium is 10% of your gross monthly income. That's pretty significant.

In that scenario average Americans could incur a 10% increase in income taxes and still net out neutral. A 10% increase would be MASSIVE, and I'm certainly not advocating for that, but I think it's an interesting data point when people complain about taxes, but then fail to consider other obligations that would be reduced / erased.

Personally, I'm OK with paying a couple of extra points to cover health care for those less fortunate than me. I understand that not everybody feels that way, but that is my perspective. I also believe there is a significant pooled risk benefit to single payer that would substantially reduce costs, as well as a benefit from increased preventative care. I also don't believe in the current 'healthcare lottery' in which people who have been doing everything right have a child come down with cancer and are bankrupted.

I do believe in the value of competition, and I believe that being poor should be substantially worse than being wealthy. Society needs competition, and in many cases people need to be uncomfortable to truly push them to better themselves. I just happen to believe that healthcare should be exempted from that.

[Strange Brew]

As usual, you show how little you learned from your econ classes with your post. Charitable giving, like a lot of other things (e.g. a company who on their own limits carbon emissions because of concerns about climate warming), is a "public good" . This means not only can people free ride on the actions of others, but they also get no benefit from their actions unless others do it as well. So no one has any incentive to do what everyone possibly wants. Hence nothing happens even though collectively we may want it to. You may want to "study up" on your economics theory before spouting more nonsense.

Total garbage and deflection as usual. What society TRULY wants is reflected in their individual choices (not their cute, pathetic and hypocritical virtue signaling). Answer the question. How much of your income are you willing to pay to acheive the societal goals YOU personally wish to be rights?

[Strange Brew]

I don't see what one person overpaying his obligation would accomplish. It's not like it would change policy.

One thing that I think often gets lost in the healthcare debate is the fact that the amount we pay in premiums is substantial to the average American, and could cover a modestly large increase in income taxes, particularly for middle income Americans.

Consider the following: My health insurance costs about $500 per month for an 80/20 PPO plan. My company has pretty good insurance and shares a good portion of the cost, so I don't pay as much as many others, but let's use that $500/mo as a benchmark.

If you make $240K per year that $500/mo amounts to 2.5% of gross monthly income ($20,000/$500). It's a pretty small percentage that isn't likely to be significant to that person't budget. Now let's say that you make closer to (but slightly above) the average income at $60K. Now that $500 monthly premium is 10% of your gross monthly income. That's pretty significant.

In that scenario average Americans could incur a 10% increase in income taxes and still net out neutral. A 10% increase would be MASSIVE, and I'm certainly not advocating for that, but I think it's an interesting data point when people complain about taxes, but then fail to consider other obligations that would be reduced / erased.

Personally, I'm OK with paying a couple of extra points to cover health care for those less fortunate than me. I understand that not everybody feels that way, but that is my perspective. I also believe there is a significant pooled risk benefit to single payer that would substantially reduce costs, as well as a benefit from increased preventative care. I also don't believe in the current 'healthcare lottery' in which people who have been doing everything right have a child come down with cancer and are bankrupted.

I do believe in the value of competition, and I believe that being poor should be substantially worse than being wealthy. Society needs competition, and in many cases people need to be uncomfortable to truly push them to better themselves. I just happen to believe that healthcare should be exempted from that.

This is pretty reasonable except your assertion that 2.5% of someone's monthly budget isn't significant to that person. Who are YOU to determine that? What is their cost of living? How many kids do they have? What is their definition of The Pursuit of Happiness?

I think it's awesome you're willing to pay a couple of bucks to the govt. Would you be willing to pay an extra 10% for single payer?

[boozehound]

This is pretty reasonable except your assertion that 2.5% of someone's monthly budget isn't significant to that person. Who are YOU to determine that? What is their cost of living? How many kids do they have? What is their definition of The Pursuit of Happiness?

I think it's awesome you're willing to pay a couple of bucks to the govt. Would you be willing to pay an extra 10% for single payer?

I would be willing to pay 10%, if I was spending 10% of my gross on health insurance, absolutely. I used my finances as the example for the 2.5% figure, so that would quadruple my monthly healthcare expenditure. I don't think anyone would experience that kind of increase under single payer, though. I would be willing to double from 2.5% to 5% though. I don't think I would miss that money all that much, and I would absolutely be willing to pay it for universal healthcare. I'm not particularly concerned about the 'pursuit of happiness' impact of a couple hundred bucks a month for people making north of $200K. I just can't imagine a scenario in which that amount of money is highly material to many of those households.

We can play your game all the way down to zero. Who's to say that anyone should pay any taxes at all? Who are we to determine that? The reality is that we enter into a society to provide for the mutual good. If people want a truly no-holds-barred 'freedom' they can go to tribal Africa where you can do what ever you want as long as you have the ability and willingness to kill anyone who tries to stop you.

[X-man]

Total garbage and deflection as usual. What society TRULY wants is reflected in their individual choices (not their cute, pathetic and hypocritical virtue signaling). Answer the question. How much of your income are you willing to pay to acheive the societal goals YOU personally wish to be rights?

Why is public goods theory "total garbage and deflection"? You either don't understand the theory (along with your already demonstrated lack of understanding of externalities theory) or you are just muddying the waters. And WTF??? Why does my tax rate have anything to do with this conversation? I will tell you that I paid a higher percentage of my income is federal taxes last year than our president. And I am fine with what I am paying, although I do wish that someone making as much as our president pay at least as high a percentage as I do.

[SemajParlor]

I don't care which side of the aisle you are on this should be of MAJOR concern to almost anybody outside of Trump's inner circle.

This point still has incredulously not clicked for everyone yet . Don't worry, it eventually will for everyone.

[Strange Brew]

I would be willing to pay 10%, if I was spending 10% of my gross on health insurance, absolutely. I used my finances as the example for the 2.5% figure, so that would quadruple my monthly healthcare expenditure. I don't think anyone would experience that kind of increase under single payer, though. I would be willing to double from 2.5% to 5% though. I don't think I would miss that money all that much, and I would absolutely be willing to pay it for universal healthcare. I'm not particularly concerned about the 'pursuit of happiness' impact of a couple hundred bucks a month for people making north of $200K. I just can't imagine a scenario in which that amount of money is highly material to many of those households.

We can play your game all the way down to zero. Who's to say that anyone should pay any taxes at all? Who are we to determine that? The reality is that we enter into a society to provide for the mutual good. If people want a truly no-holds-barred 'freedom' they can go to tribal Africa where you can do what ever you want as long as you have the ability and willingness to kill anyone who tries to stop you.

Great that you'd pay 10% more and the good news is you can. No one is stopping you. What's interesting is a 10% tax increase for a state run universal healthcare system was on the ballot out here in blue CO last fall. It failed miserably. So again what people say they want and what they personally are willing to do are two very different things.

The US is not a place for those who work for the benefit of others. If you'd like that I suggest you move to Venezuela or North Korea since you like extreme examples (tribal Africa...).

[GoMuskies]

This point still has incredulously not clicked for everyone yet . Don't worry, it eventually will.

Personally, I think you guys have found your own Benghazi. BENGHAZI! BENGHAZI! RUSSIA!