Conference carousel to start spinning again?

[xubrew]

Although traditionally schools have tried to keep ALL of their sports teams in the same conference, it is becoming more common for schools to move “minor” sports to other conference affiliations when necessary or advantageous. There is no NCAA regulations that prevent this from happening, although in some cases there are league requirements. We already have situations where a school can have certain sports playing at different NCAA levels. It would not surprise me to see this become more common with the BIG sports of football and basketball in the future. Whatever is going to work the best financially for schools is what they are going to move toward. So if it is best financially for Memphis to put their basketball program in the BE, and keep their football team where it is, that’s what they are going to try and do.

When in doubt…..follow the money.

Edit to add: Agreements between schools to remain in leagues are hardly worth the paper they are written on. School presidents and boards come and go and any contract/agreement can be bought out if it makes financial sense.

Yes! They can be! And that can be worth tens of millions of dollars more than the paper it's printed on!

And, just an FYI on something else you said, if a school is D1 in basketball then they have to be D1 in everything. Otherwise schools can (and do) have different sports playing in different divisions, particularly in lacrosse and hockey.

[XUGRAD80]

Yes! They can be! And that can be worth tens of millions of dollars more than the paper it's printed on!

And, just an FYI on something else you said, if a school is D1 in basketball then they have to be D1 in everything. Otherwise schools can (and do) have different sports playing in different divisions, particularly in lacrosse and hockey.

Currently that is true….but in the future? My point is that if it makes financial sense for schools and conferences to see that changed, it probably will get changed. The NCAA is not the one with the power any longer. The TV networks and the conferences are the ones that will be making the rules moving forward. Once again…..follow the money. It’s the golden rule…..those with the gold make the rules.

[xudash]

A few thoughts / comments:

1. Potential Big East Additions: It's pretty simple as it stands right now (and through the end of this decade) - any addition would have to be able to justify an annual payout to such a school equal to the upcoming new payout to each BE school. Over $7 million per year. That's minimum. It would have to be neutral or accretive financially to the BE membership, because they aren't going to accept dilution.

2. UCONN: May / will / will most likely ... leave as soon as it finds an acceptable all-sports conference solution. With Yormark's latest failure to get them onboard with the Big 12, and with the Big 12 frankly filled up at this point, I don't believe UCONN can rely on that as a solution for the next few years, if not longer. The ACC? It's looking more and more like each and every ACC school is tied to the GOR mast until the middle of the next decade. FSU and Clemson certainly aren't helping themselves this football season with their appeal to the B1G or SEC. UCONN has no place to go - for ???.

3. Yormark and Monetizing Basketball Value: This one gets a little muddy for one very simple reason: The schools that now comprise the Big 12 are almost desperate for additional funding for football, because they are so far behind the B1G and SEC on media payouts. This one is for the media guys to take on, but, while the Big 12 is undoubtedly a strong hoops conference, how much more in media payouts could it offer an existing BE school? I also can't see our eastern seaboard brethren giving up MSG and our existing composition to go play flyover ball all over hell and back. Keep in mind that the C7 pulled away from a hybrid conference for a reason - they wanted basketball driving the decisioning. Any school that would leave the BE for the Big 12 would have to know that football is job one for that conference.

4. Big East Unity: What on God's earth would make anyone here believe that the current membership of the Big East, save for UCONN, isn't fully aligned.


80 has already spelled it out in as clear as terms as possible: the Presidents care about finances and brand.

They absolutely will not grow the conference if that means dilution for the existing members. And think about that for a minute. The market is telling you that your collective value is north of $7 million per school per year. Oh, you want to add SLU or VD? No problem. You're now worth less than $6 million per school to us. Who on earth would think about expanding right now if it isn't otherwise necessary and certainly if it doesn't lead to financial improvement, or at least neutrality?

SLU has no where else to go. VD will never sniff the Big East so long as Xavier is a member of it. And if we ever have to dip into the mid-major well, we'll be looking at a problematic environment for us and the Big East.

AS THINGS STAND, we are operating in a window where the Big East is highly respected, we have the best conference tournament going, $7 million+ per school is strong for hoops, and we have a 6-year window - assuming UCONN doesn't bolt - where we can continue to excel at basketball while football continues to sort itself out. The SEC has 16 teams. The B1G has 18 teams. 34 total. What if they pluck ND and 5 other teams and run off to their own sandbox to crank up NFL Lite, leaving everyone else stranded with respect to their football programs?

[XUGRAD80]

I’ll also point out that if any BE schools was invited to a conference where they stand to double (or more) the money they are currently receiving, they will be gone faster than I can type this sentence. Loyalty is one thing, but it doesn’t pay the bills. I certainly don’t see that scenario happening, but if it did they’d be gone. Including X.

[xubrew]

Currently that is true….but in the future? My point is that if it makes financial sense for schools and conferences to see that changed, it probably will get changed. The NCAA is not the one with the power any longer. The TV networks and the conferences are the ones that will be making the rules moving forward. Once again…..follow the money. It’s the golden rule…..those with the gold make the rules.

I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you implying that contractual buyouts, obligations, and exit fees may not be binding in the future, or that the so-called "Dayton Rule" will no longer be in play??

I don't see either one of those things changing. The former is an issue of contractual law, and the latter is something that I don't think any school in any of the three divisions wants to see changed. Why would they?? I can't see any financial advantage to allowing schools with D1 resources and D1 revenue that basketball generates to play their other Olympic sports in D2 and D3.

[XUGRAD80]

I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you implying that contractual buyouts, obligations, and exit fees may not be binding in the future, or that the so-called "Dayton Rule" will no longer be in play??

I don't see either one of those things changing. The former is an issue of contractual law, and the latter is something that I don't think any school in any of the three divisions wants to see changed. Why would they?? I can't see any financial advantage to allowing schools with D1 resources and D1 revenue that basketball generates to play their other Olympic sports in D2 and D3.

I’m more saying that IF IT MAKES FINANCIAL SENSE for it to happen, we will see cases where a school will be a member of a conference for its basketball/football programs only. The other sports will play in other conferences that make more sense for them to be involved in. BUT the same COULD be true for playing at different division levels for different sports too. In fact, we already see both of these things happening is some individual cases where it makes FINANCIAL sense. If you can’t see why a school might want to keep its expenses for non-revenue sports as low as possible, I don’t know how to explain college finances to you.

Dayton is a perfect example of where their football and basketball programs play at different levels. Oklahoma is moving to the SEC, but its wrestling program (which is one of the most successful college programs 8n D1 history) won’t be able to because the SEC doesn’t have wrestling. I’m not sure exactly what it’s going to do, but it might well be staying in the B12 for wrestling. There are many examples of schools having its teams playing in multiple conferences for different sports.

Schools will do what makes the most FINANCIAL sense for themselves, and the conferences will too. They will write outs INTO the agreements. The current ACC situation will serve as a warning to schools to not agree to contracts that seek to bind a school to a conference with a huge buyout clause.

[xubrew]

Okay, you had mentioned schools playing at different divisions. Sports only conferences exist and are allowed. Schools can be in as many different conferences for as many different sports as what those conferences will allow.

What is not allowed is playing D1 basketball and nonD1 something else. That’s why the PFL exists. It’s a football only non-scholarship league for D1 schools. And, I don’t see that rule ever changing. Nor do I see it ever making financial sense to change it.

[XUGRAD80]

Okay, you had mentioned schools playing at different divisions. Sports only conferences exist and are allowed. Schools can be in as many different conferences for as many different sports as what those conferences will allow.

What is not allowed is playing D1 basketball and nonD1 something else. That’s why the PFL exists. It’s a football only non-scholarship league for D1 schools. And, I don’t see that rule ever changing. Nor do I see it ever making financial sense to change it.

I only said that it COULD happen…if it made financial sense to enough schools to let it happen.

My whole point through this whole thing is that it is all about MONEY and nothing else really matters. History, tradition, what long term fans like, what individual schools want, what the NCAA leadership wants….none of those things matter anymore. TV MONEY is what it is all about from now on. ANYTHING is possible, even if you don’t think it makes financial sense under current conditions or rules. Conditions and rules can change. And probably will.