Politics Thread

[xubrew]

I think MOR is a little over the top, but having said that people have a right to be frustrated. DEMOCRATS have a right to be frustrated!! They SHOULD be frustrated! They have control over all three branches of government, they got there in large part because of the vision they sold. Well...the current reality doesn't match the vision. So...people should be pissed!!

Democrats are big on selling a vision and small on actually delivering on it. That's how I feel. And...I'm kinda tired of it. They're good at rallying around something that they think is unfair, or wrong, or some sort of social injustice and gaining votes to win elections. They suck once they're elected. I'm going to have a hard time voting for very many Democrats this next time around.

[XU_Lou]

I think MOR is a little over the top, but having said that people have a right to be frustrated. DEMOCRATS have a right to be frustrated!! They SHOULD be frustrated! They have control over all three branches of government, they got there in large part because of the vision they sold. Well...the current reality doesn't match the vision. So...people should be pissed!!

Democrats are big on selling a vision and small on actually delivering on it. That's how I feel. And...I'm kinda tired of it. They're good at rallying around something that they think is unfair, or wrong, or some sort of social injustice and gaining votes to win elections. They suck once they're elected. I'm going to have a hard time voting for very many Democrats this next time around.

IMHO, the reason we are at each other's throats is because of big gov't intrusion into our lives. One side wants things done one way, and the other wants it another way. More gov't / more laws = more conflict. If the gov't backed off and let us make our own decisions, we wouldn't have anything (or little) to bitch about. As Reagan said, "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem."

[paulxu]

I've had a drink with MOR. He is a great supporter of Xavier and our Musketeers.
I couldn't disagree with the policies he supports more. That's the nature of politics.

In a time of economic challenge, the party in power is often kicked out, whether or not they are responsible/can do anything. That's the nature of our system.
We (both sides) are unable to recognize the impact of something like the filibuster as a roadblock to solutions.
People are prone to ignore facts when it suits their purpose. For example: the Democrats have long pushed for policies that take us away from fossil fuels eventually. Why? Simple...there's a finite supply (so for our grandchildren's sake) and it is a global product, often subject to forces outside our country.
We are in a perfect example of that place. We are still a net exporter of petroleum products...that hasn't changed in the last year, whatever Biden has done.
On the global market we still import a lot of foreign oil...it's different than shale and better for some products. That hasn't changed.
Unfortunately, Saudi has not increased production, and our facilities are slow coming back after the pandemic. Nothing Biden has done has affected that.
There are leases to use, and perhaps now will be used with the price per barrel. If the 2nd Keystone was still on line, it would be no where near being completed to be of any benefit.
So far, and yes it might change, there is no supply problem as we experienced decades ago.
So oil companies are free to make record profits and buy back their shares. But we want to blame politicians.
Democratic proposals to address this are filibustered.

That's just one example. There are many. I expect Biden and his decisions to be criticized: that's what people who oppose his should do.
Just like I did for Trump's policies. I think, as many, that his time in office was incredibly destructive to our country, and we continue to be at peril for the forces he unleashed. 2/3rds of Republicans still believe the big lie.
That will continue to tear our country apart. We have never before had a disruption in the peaceful transfer of power until last year. I don't think people fully appreciate that, and probably won't for a long time.

So, I'll try to support my opinions with facts...and feel confident that Biden's opposition on this board will continue to disagree with him, the Democrats, and their policies. I hope their opinions are also grounded in facts.

Brew, I share your frustration that the Democrats haven't done more to bring their polices to fruition. Many of them even get bi-partisan support but die in the black hole of the Senate filibuster. As to them controlling all 3 branches of government as you indicated...I'm pretty sure the current make up of one of our 3 branches (the highest court) is decidedly Conservative.

[Masterofreality]

I've had a drink with MOR. He is a great supporter of Xavier and our Musketeers.
I couldn't disagree with the policies he supports more. That's the nature of politics.

In a time of economic challenge, the party in power is often kicked out, whether or not they are responsible/can do anything. That's the nature of our system.
We (both sides) are unable to recognize the impact of something like the filibuster as a roadblock to solutions.
People are prone to ignore facts when it suits their purpose. For example: the Democrats have long pushed for policies that take us away from fossil fuels eventually. Why? Simple...there's a finite supply (so for our grandchildren's sake) and it is a global product, often subject to forces outside our country.
We are in a perfect example of that place. We are still a net exporter of petroleum products...that hasn't changed in the last year, whatever Biden has done.
On the global market we still import a lot of foreign oil...it's different than shale and better for some products. That hasn't changed.
Unfortunately, Saudi has not increased production, and our facilities are slow coming back after the pandemic. Nothing Biden has done has affected that.
There are leases to use, and perhaps now will be used with the price per barrel. If the 2nd Keystone was still on line, it would be no where near being completed to be of any benefit.
So far, and yes it might change, there is no supply problem as we experienced decades ago.
So oil companies are free to make record profits and buy back their shares. But we want to blame politicians.
Democratic proposals to address this are filibustered.

That's just one example. There are many. I expect Biden and his decisions to be criticized: that's what people who oppose his should do.
Just like I did for Trump's policies. I think, as many, that his time in office was incredibly destructive to our country, and we continue to be at peril for the forces he unleashed. 2/3rds of Republicans still believe the big lie.
That will continue to tear our country apart. We have never before had a disruption in the peaceful transfer of power until last year. I don't think people fully appreciate that, and probably won't for a long time.

So, I'll try to support my opinions with facts...and feel confident that Biden's opposition on this board will continue to disagree with him, the Democrats, and their policies. I hope their opinions are also grounded in facts.

Brew, I share your frustration that the Democrats haven't done more to bring their polices to fruition. Many of them even get bi-partisan support but die in the black hole of the Senate filibuster. As to them controlling all 3 branches of government as you indicated...I'm pretty sure the current make up of one of our 3 branches (the highest court) is decidedly Conservative.

I would love to have a drink with Paul again, so I can totally refute his political idiocy in person and maybe even turn his twisted mind straight.
“The Filibuster is a roadblock”
Exactly why the Founding Fathers put it in. To rid the Legislature of it is a fundamental blow to the system.
How well did it work when Harry Ried broke precendent on Judicial Appointment Filibuster? Welp, it gave the majority party-Republicans-3 Supreme Court Justices. You probably do not want to go down that road to utter chaos on Bills.
How much more radical, and not respectful of US systems can someone be? Right to my point.

As to Paul’s citing of “facts”. Huh. Biden has discouraged domestic energy production ever since the pre election debates: To wit:
-Joe Biden tweet: 3/15/20:
We have to treat climate change like the existential threat it is. As president, I will:

- End subsidies for fossil fuel corporations
- Ban new drilling on federal lands & waters
- Hold oil executives accountable

-Joe Biden in 2020 debates: "No more subsidies for the fossil fuel industry. No more drilling including offshore. No ability for the oil industry to continue to drill period. It ends."
After election Biden issued his EO 13990, , which was the arrow he shot directly at the oil and gas industry on his first day in office.

-Then Biden called Saudi Arabia a “Pariah State” and tried to kow tow to a true Pariah State- Iran. Now he’s begging the Saudis to bail him out of his self created mess. As we’ve said, it is, at least, a 15 -20 year process to transition power & fuel systems. Biden radically tried to do it in 2 years totally unprepared. The transition was already in the works before & under Trump. How do you think that Ford & Tesla have been able to introduce new electric vehicles in the last couple of years? But the Infrastructure is not in place and won’t be.
Biden totally screwed this up as he would have even more with his stupid BBB plan. Thank Gawd for Joe Manchin who saved even more inflation. Even the last stimulus plan was too big because it contained $375 million to state & local governments to bail them out.
Paul has proven himself to be a radical extremist in this post. Not “reasonable” or “respectful”. Push back is required.

[XU_Lou]

I've had a drink with MOR. He is a great supporter of Xavier and our Musketeers.
I couldn't disagree with the policies he supports more. That's the nature of politics.

In a time of economic challenge, the party in power is often kicked out, whether or not they are responsible/can do anything. That's the nature of our system.
We (both sides) are unable to recognize the impact of something like the filibuster as a roadblock to solutions.
People are prone to ignore facts when it suits their purpose. For example: the Democrats have long pushed for policies that take us away from fossil fuels eventually. Why? Simple...there's a finite supply (so for our grandchildren's sake) and it is a global product, often subject to forces outside our country.
We are in a perfect example of that place. We are still a net exporter of petroleum products...that hasn't changed in the last year, whatever Biden has done.
On the global market we still import a lot of foreign oil...it's different than shale and better for some products. That hasn't changed.
Unfortunately, Saudi has not increased production, and our facilities are slow coming back after the pandemic. Nothing Biden has done has affected that.
There are leases to use, and perhaps now will be used with the price per barrel. If the 2nd Keystone was still on line, it would be no where near being completed to be of any benefit.
So far, and yes it might change, there is no supply problem as we experienced decades ago.
So oil companies are free to make record profits and buy back their shares. But we want to blame politicians.
Democratic proposals to address this are filibustered.

That's just one example. There are many. I expect Biden and his decisions to be criticized: that's what people who oppose his should do.
Just like I did for Trump's policies. I think, as many, that his time in office was incredibly destructive to our country, and we continue to be at peril for the forces he unleashed. 2/3rds of Republicans still believe the big lie.
That will continue to tear our country apart. We have never before had a disruption in the peaceful transfer of power until last year. I don't think people fully appreciate that, and probably won't for a long time.

So, I'll try to support my opinions with facts...and feel confident that Biden's opposition on this board will continue to disagree with him, the Democrats, and their policies. I hope their opinions are also grounded in facts.

Brew, I share your frustration that the Democrats haven't done more to bring their polices to fruition. Many of them even get bi-partisan support but die in the black hole of the Senate filibuster. As to them controlling all 3 branches of government as you indicated...I'm pretty sure the current make up of one of our 3 branches (the highest court) is decidedly Conservative.

"We (both sides) are unable to recognize the impact of something like the filibuster as a roadblock to solutions."

- you understand why the filibuster exists, right? To prevent one side from ramming down their policies on the rest of the country. It's an extremely important aspect of our system that prevents the citizens from being whipsawed from one side's policies to the other. Do you really want the filibuster removed when the Republicans takeover???



"For example: the Democrats have long pushed for policies that take us away from fossil fuels eventually. Why? Simple...there's a finite supply (so for our grandchildren's sake)"

- yes, the supply is finite, but it will last far longer than just two generations. Just in the US alone we have hundreds of years worth of oil and gas. The problem is that the Dems are moving way too fast on this before we're ready - thus your policies are causing harm to the poor and middle class through higher prices, while also raising the threats of widespread blackouts this summer. The Democrats are completely irrational on solving this problem (if you thinks it's a problem, which I don't -- bring on LNG and nuclear to solve global warming - that will also make electric cars more viable)

[paulxu]

As to Paul’s citing of “facts”. Huh. Biden has discouraged domestic energy production ever since the pre election debates: To wit:
-Joe Biden tweet: 3/15/20:
We have to treat climate change like the existential threat it is. As president, I will:

- End subsidies for fossil fuel corporations
- Ban new drilling on federal lands & waters
- Hold oil executives accountable-

Biden's has NOT discouraged "domestic energy production." He has been very supportive of alternative energy solutions to fossil fuels.
As to his tweet:
1 - oil companies don't need the continuance of decades long subsidies when they are making record profits every year. Why use our taxpayer dollars to subsidize them? That doesn't seem very reasonable
2 - as for banning more drilling on federal land...there are 9000 existing federal leases unused. Wouldn't it seem reasonable to use those that can be productive first?
3 - perhaps there are some oil executives (like the robber barons of old) who should be held accountable for price gouging. That seem at least reasonable enough to consider in the face of recent pricing/profit realities

As to the price of gas, it'll cost the Dems in November. Curiously enough, adjusted for inflation, we have seen this price before.
And if I see you at Dana's, the first round is on me:

[XU_Lou]

From Kiplinger:

"First, blame the COVID-19 pandemic, which threw oil markets severely out of whack two years ago. They still haven’t fully recovered from the damage the virus inflicted.

When COVID first hit, it put a deep dent in global oil demand as many normal activities shut down and millions of people who usually drive to work stayed home. As a result, crude oil prices plunged. In fact, at one point in April 2020, benchmark West Texas Intermediate crude prices actually fell below $0 – something that would normally seem impossible.

With oil demand so weak due to COVID-19 restrictions, places to store unwanted crude filled up, and traders in oil futures scrambled to unload their positions in crude. Eventually, some had to pay buyers to take future oil deliveries off their hands.

Negative prices didn’t last long, but oil stayed very cheap for much of 2020. That led energy companies and major oil exporting countries in OPEC to slash their production because no one wanted to give away barrels of oil at such rock-bottom prices.

Since then, the world has slowly gotten through the pandemic, and oil demand has come roaring back, especially in the U.S. Unsurprisingly, consumers who missed out on travel and other normal activities in 2020 and 2021 are making up for lost time now. U.S. oil demand is about back to where it was pre-COVID. But oil production takes a lot longer to restart than oil consumption.

Idled wells can’t be easily restarted. Drilling new wells takes time. And oil producers have been cautious about opening the taps quickly, lest a new price drop burn them again. Here in the U.S., oil output has only partially recovered from its 2020 drop. OPEC and its partner nations are only gradually restoring the exports they took off the market during the worst of the pandemic."

https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-f...still-going-up

Again, this is another manmade disaster, mostly at the hands of Democrats who pushed for lockdowns (I Know there were Republicans guilty of this, but it was mostly Dems who lockdowned their states too hard, and for far too long). High gas prices, inflation, looming food shortages, and persistent supply chain issues are all a direct result of the ridiculous response to Covid. It will go down as one of the greatest mistakes ever made by leaders across the globe.

[Muskie in dayton]

It's happening because of people like you who are susceptible to the appeals of the polarizing political and media complex. Find people with views opposite to yours and talk to them. If anyone thinks that one side versus the other is more to blame for any issue in the country, they are part of the problem.

So, like like we do on this thread? The problem, I believe, is much more related to the rhetoric and gaslighting used in discussion. Calling someone a “tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist” for presenting info contrary to the mainstream narrative. That not only lends nothing to a debate, it is also an attempt to delegitimize a the person’s creditability. Similarly, categorizing information as “misinformation” and calling for censorship creates furthers division. Also kind of like we do on this thread.

On the topic of censorship, remember that misinform does not need to be censored, as it can easily be refuted with facts. Only facts need to be censored, as they cannot be refuted.

[Muskie in dayton]

I'm not just referring to suppression of fossil fuels/energy policy, I'm referring to everything that's going on: rampant crime as a result of Democrat DAs refusing to prosecute, rampant spending resulting in inflation, looming food shortages, supply chain destruction, inciting a totally avoidable war with Russia, Covid lockdowns and mitigation efforts that haven't worked, transgender mania and the sexual grooming of kids, a two-tiered justice system, a wide open border and illegal alien invasion....

----- the list goes on and on - that's at the top of my head, I'm sure there are many others.

What is the purpose of all this? Why is this happening?

It is truly beyond comprehension. I’m honestly starting to believe the Biden Admin just wants to destroy America. There is no other reason they can justify the policy decisions they make. It is like their goal is to continue a scorched approach for 2 years and have no concerns about re-election. Scary.

[Masterofreality]

Biden's has NOT discouraged "domestic energy production." He has been very supportive of alternative energy solutions to fossil fuels.
As to his tweet:
1 - oil companies don't need the continuance of decades long subsidies when they are making record profits every year. Why use our taxpayer dollars to subsidize them? That doesn't seem very reasonable
2 - as for banning more drilling on federal land...there are 9000 existing federal leases unused. Wouldn't it seem reasonable to use those that can be productive first?
3 - perhaps there are some oil executives (like the robber barons of old) who should be held accountable for price gouging. That seem at least reasonable enough to consider in the face of recent pricing/profit realities

As to the price of gas, it'll cost the Dems in November. Curiously enough, adjusted for inflation, we have seen this price before.
And if I see you at Dana's, the first round is on me:

“Price gouging” is not a fact but an out and out lie. Biden has totally discouraged the domestic energy system in this country as we know it. and he embarrassed the Saudis, who could have been a backstop, who have been working with Israel on reapproachment and Middle East peace deals.
Exploration for energy is risky, hence the subsidies. How come we aren’t more all in on nuclear? Because that isn’t an “approved” clean energy source per progressives like Paul.
As to the “9,000 unused leases” on Federal lands, I refer you to this “fact check” :

https://www.verifythis.com/article/n...d-df1cdf2acb3f

And also this. Biden’s attempt to blame oil companies for the unused leases are a red herring.
https://www.iwf.org/2022/03/31/fact-...unused-leases/

Biden’s regulatory bullshit has made it more difficult to start and held up many of the chances to drill. He caused this by his EO’s.

How many times does it have to be said that this was an abomination of planning…just like the Afghanistan embarrassment and the handling of the border among other things.
By the way, from Paul’s favorite site Politifact:
“ Record oil company profits followed losses
Oil companies did announce record breaking profits earlier this year.
Exxon Mobil made $23 billion in profit for 2021. But that came after suffering $22.4 billion in losses the previous year because of the pandemic-fueled economic downturn. The New York Times reported the company's profit was the highest it had been since 2014.
Chevron also experienced its most profitable year since 2014, with the company reporting in January that it made $15.6 billion in revenue for 2021, according to the Wall Street Journal. That followed a loss of $5.5 billion in 2020.” and on and on.

Paul is a fountain of deference , half of the story truths and bullshit.