Dayton v.s. Marquette

XU 87 · 12-01-2008, 09:57 PM

What year was it when UD last beat Xavier in Cincinnati?

When was the last time UD won an NCAA tourney game?

Swifty · 12-01-2008, 10:38 PM

In the dude's defense; Warren, Johnson, Wright, Little, Huelsman, Johnson, Lowry, Searcy, Williams, Thomas, Perry, and Fabrizious makes 12, although I'm not sure Williams averaging 0.2 points and 0.6 rebounds a game is really contributing.

West is Best · 12-01-2008, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by AdamtheFlyer

That's why I said "legit" 12 deep. Anyone can play 12 players, but getting good play from 12 guys gives you a major advantage. If you don't understand the effect depth has on a basketball game, I don't know what to say. Ask Marquette what depth means. Bench scoring was in favor of UD something like 50-5. UD dominated Marquette because they were able to go to the bench and replace someone with equal or better production, and Marquette could not.

There's a saying in football, "when you have 2 quarterbacks, you really have none" so I'm not as sold that being 12 deep is a good thing, even if you say its legit. If UD struggles at some point, it could lead to more finger pointing and eventually transfers. If UD hasn't whittled their rotation down to 10 by the end of January, it'll be a bad sign for the team.

That being said, in a season where A10 wins have been few and far between, the Marquette win is very impressive. Until X gets healthy, I'd say Dayton has the best team in the league.

Flyer1407 · 12-01-2008, 11:28 PM

Dayton is not 12 deep. They really haven't played 12 deep until they had to play on back to back nights both games with players in foul trouble.

They have 3 point guards. Warren was in foul trouble making Lowery play more minutes and making Thomas the 2nd point against both Auburn and Marquette.

Against Marquette Marcus Johnson was in foul trouble the whole game as was London Warren and Huelsman.

Bottom line is Dayton didn't rotate 12 guys in any other game unless it was late and it was a blow out.

Mickey Perry has started playing better and perhaps Paul Williams is getting healthy, but Marcus is going to eat up the bulk of the minutes at the 2.

Oh and Chris Wright had 4 fouls.

Don't look for Dayton to constantly play 12 guys nor have 30 personal fouls all that often. They may play 12 guys every now and then because Gregory wants to see if Paul Williams will get on track but it will NOT be a 12 man rotation.

Here is the box to Marquette

http://daytonflyers.cstv.com/sports/...009/ud-mu.html

Notice the minutes Warren, Lowery and Thomas played. Then look at the foul situation with Warren and Lowery.

Then look at the minutes M. Johnson, Perry, and Williams played. Then look at the foul situation with Johnson and Perry.

And after that look at Little. When your starting 4 is in foul trouble and then fouls out you have to play with different combination's on the floor.

Marquette also played mostly a 4 guard line-up. Hence why so many Dayton guards saw action. Good luck guarding James, McNeal, Matthews, Cubillan, and Acker all night without going deep into your bench.

AdamtheFlyer · 12-01-2008, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by Flyer1407

Dayton is not 12 deep. They really haven't played 12 deep until they had to play on back to back nights both games with players in foul trouble.

They have 3 point guards. Warren was in foul trouble making Lowery play more minutes and making Thomas the 2nd point against both Auburn and Marquette.

Against Marquette Marcus Johnson was in foul trouble the whole game as was London Warren and Huelsman.

Bottom line is Dayton didn't rotate 12 guys in any other game unless it was late and it was a blow out.

Mickey Perry has started playing better and perhaps Paul Williams is getting healthy, but Marcus is going to eat up the bulk of the minutes at the 2.

Oh and Chris Wright had 4 fouls.

Don't look for Dayton to constantly play 12 guys nor have 30 personal fouls all that often. They may play 12 guys every now and then because Gregory wants to see if Paul Williams will get on track but it will NOT be a 12 man rotation.

Here is the box to Marquette

http://daytonflyers.cstv.com/sports/...009/ud-mu.html

Notice the minutes Warren, Lowery and Thomas played. Then look at the foul situation with Warren and Lowery.

Then look at the minutes M. Johnson, Perry, and Williams played. Then look at the foul situation with Johnson and Perry.

And after that look at Little. When your starting 4 is in foul trouble and then fouls out you have to play with different combination's on the floor.

Marquette also played mostly a 4 guard line-up. Hence why so many Dayton guards saw action. Good luck guarding James, McNeal, Matthews, Cubillan, and Acker all night without going deep into your bench.

12 deep does not mean everyone plays equal minutes. It means you have 12 guys that can step in and get the job done. As you saw in the Marquette game, Dayton can do that. Steven Thomas, as the third PG, has played extremely well. Williams' minutes will continue to increase as he gets into shape, and Mickey Perry's will likely decline if he doesn't start hitting shots. That's ok. We know Mickey is still capable of coming in and playing good D. Williams missed 10 weeks, from late August through October... the absolute worst time for a frosh to miss. He's just now getting to the point where he can step on the floor.

And think...it would likely be 13 with a healthy Benson.

AdamtheFlyer · 12-01-2008, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by West is Best

There's a saying in football, "when you have 2 quarterbacks, you really have none" so I'm not as sold that being 12 deep is a good thing, even if you say its legit. If UD struggles at some point, it could lead to more finger pointing and eventually transfers. If UD hasn't whittled their rotation down to 10 by the end of January, it'll be a bad sign for the team.

That being said, in a season where A10 wins have been few and far between, the Marquette win is very impressive. Until X gets healthy, I'd say Dayton has the best team in the league.

It's possible, but I feel confident in this being Wright and Johnson's team. When a loss or two eventually happens, they'll come out and shoulder the blame. Wright said he was "embarrassed" by his own performance in the Wofford game. So far, it seems to be a team where everyone is beginning to understand their role, and relishes in personal accountability.

It's not a matter of everyone playing equal minutes and heading to Marion's for a pizza party after the game. Dayton has 12 guys that, when their number is called, appear to be fully capable of getting the job done. I'll give you Williams for now, but in a month or so I think he'll be seeing significant minutes. He looked pretty good against Auburn and Marquette...just couldn't hit a shot. They'll start falling sooner than later, I'd imagine.

As far as people transferring...we should be so lucky as to have a talented, contributing player leave because he's been beaten out by 9 or 10 better options. You never want that to happen, but it's a reality that no program is immune. That's not something I worry about. Not with the talent BG has brought, and is bringing in the next few years (especially if he can lock up Payne).

PMI · 12-02-2008, 12:31 AM

I still don't think at this point in the season you can determine that there are 12 guys that can "step in and get the job done." Look at Adrion Graves last year, for example. At this point last season we all considered him to be a legitimate part of the depth chart, and I don't remember if he even saw a minute in the postseason. We were saying the same thing about how even though the shots aren't falling, we can rely on him for other things until it happens, but it didn't happen.

The rotation for the Flyers will likely go down to 9 or 10, and if injuries or foul trouble cause the 11th or 12th guys to come in, who knows how they'll play, not being used to seeing many game minutes. Dayton may have a rare team with 12 guys that can get the job done I suppose, but I think you may be seeing things slightly through the homer lenses if you are counting on it.