Politics Thread

[GoMuskies]

How about Biden?

I'd be okay with Biden. Kind of blah, but we could do with some blah at this point.

[noteggs]

Tougher choice, but I’d still go with Trump for one big reason, SCOTUS appointments.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Bingo!!!

[boozehound]

As a human being, the guy is a disaster. As a President, there have been far worse. Economy is in good shape, hes trying to fix sins of the past etc.

I think he is worse than just a 'disaster as a human being'. Bill Clinton was a disaster of a human being, but seemed to be in possession of his mental faculties, and generally appeared to take the Presidency seriously. Trump is a disaster of a human being who seems to display no real regard for the responsibilities that he has as President of the United States of America. Furthermore, he does not appear to be interested in putting in the time or effort to learn the job or even to staff his administration.

I don't think we fully appreciate how far we have fallen, or how fast. Remember when Dan Quayle misspelled 'potato' and everybody spent the next year making jokes about how stupid he was? Trump does 3-4 things per day that make that look like child's play, and that's without getting in to the more insidious issues around potential conflicts of interest with his business, family members, and friends.

The level of overt cronyism and, perhaps most shockingly, nepotism exhibited by this administration is unlike anything we have ever seen. They aren't even trying to look like they aren't doing it. The guy is putting close relatives in positions of extreme power and allowing high level security clearances to people with red flags in their background checks. He is putting aggressively unqualified people in key positions, repeatedly, and has fairly systematically weeded out the more qualified individuals in his administration - particularly those who challenge him (Mattis, Kelly, etc.)

Now layer in the level of aggressive dishonesty consistently shown by this administration coupled with a disdain not only for the media but for the 50+% of the population that didn't vote for him and bake in a lot of praise for dictators and strongmen around the globe.

When I actually consider the totality of the flaws that we are willing to look the other way on it amazes me. I'm not one who views Trump as the 'lesser' of almost any evils, but what I truly don't understand is when people claim to be somewhat reluctant supporters of Trump, but still do not support thorough investigations of his affairs, releasing of his taxes, etc. I would think those people would want as much clarity as possible about what he is up to, where his business ties are, who is funding his financial interests, and what he stands to gain financially from foreign interactions. The only thing really separating this guy from banana republic level despotism, in my opinion, is the strength of our checks and balances. I hope there aren't enough of us willing to trade those in for a few supreme court seats.

[GoMuskies]

Mueller about to speak. THIS is political theater!

[Masterofreality]

I think he is worse than just a 'disaster as a human being'. Bill Clinton was a disaster of a human being, but seemed to be in possession of his mental faculties, and generally appeared to take the Presidency seriously. Trump is a disaster of a human being who seems to display no real regard for the responsibilities that he has as President of the United States of America. Furthermore, he does not appear to be interested in putting in the time or effort to learn the job or even to staff his administration.

I don't think we fully appreciate how far we have fallen, or how fast. Remember when Dan Quayle misspelled 'potato' and everybody spent the next year making jokes about how stupid he was? Trump does 3-4 things per day that make that look like child's play, and that's without getting in to the more insidious issues around potential conflicts of interest with his business, family members, and friends.

The level of overt cronyism and, perhaps most shockingly, nepotism exhibited by this administration is unlike anything we have ever seen. They aren't even trying to look like they aren't doing it. The guy is putting close relatives in positions of extreme power and allowing high level security clearances to people with red flags in their background checks. He is putting aggressively unqualified people in key positions, repeatedly, and has fairly systematically weeded out the more qualified individuals in his administration - particularly those who challenge him (Mattis, Kelly, etc.)

Now layer in the level of aggressive dishonesty consistently shown by this administration coupled with a disdain not only for the media but for the 50+% of the population that didn't vote for him and bake in a lot of praise for dictators and strongmen around the globe.

When I actually consider the totality of the flaws that we are willing to look the other way on it amazes me. I'm not one who views Trump as the 'lesser' of almost any evils, but what I truly don't understand is when people claim to be somewhat reluctant supporters of Trump, but still do not support thorough investigations of his affairs, releasing of his taxes, etc. I would think those people would want as much clarity as possible about what he is up to, where his business ties are, who is funding his financial interests, and what he stands to gain financially from foreign interactions. The only thing really separating this guy from banana republic level despotism, in my opinion, is the strength of our checks and balances. I hope there aren't enough of us willing to trade those in for a few supreme court seats.

See all of this is missing the context that Trump is NOT a career politician, unlike EVERY other President. The tax return question is stupid on it's face because there has NEVER been a businessman as President before. Of course there are going to be items of question that the IRS has looked into, but...A) There has been no crime established that anything was done untoward. B) There was no "Russia Collusion". C) This ridiculousness of the Democrats trying to impeach over a flimsy obstruction charge is ludicrous. Fact is that the initial Mueller investigation was a result of a concocted scheme by the Dems through a falsified FISA warrrant which misled the court and caused this "surveillance" on Trump which resulted in zero. Now the left is trying to circle back and call obstruction vs a charge that never should have been made in the first place. Way to dance Dems. Thinking people see right through it. Meanwhile the 'NO Crisis at the Border" that the media and Dems kept claiming when Trump was shutting down the government, errrrr, has materialized into, huh, a crisis at the border everyday. But, see. By just continuing the obstruction/impeachment narrative, that keeps the Dems from having to actually Address Problems like the border or infrastructure.

Trump is an orange haired, narcissistic self absorbed a-hole, but his policies are working, and it's about time somebody had the guts to take on China.
A Businessman who had zero vested interest in Washington. Guess what. That is what the people voted for rather than a charlatan like Bernie Sanders while decrying the wealthy, gets rich himself...like Pelosi, etc. And the media hate him because he's not beholding to them, like most pandering politicians are.

[muskiefan82]

And the media hate him because he's not beholding to them, like most pandering politicians are.

Beholden, not beholding. That is my only issue with your statement. :-)

[Caf]

There is not a businessman in the country without a vested interest in Washington. Maybe that's the image of Trump you bought into, but there's no way you can argue his policies have not directly benefited his businesses. I'm with you on China, but get real arguing that his business background makes the questions of conflicts of interests stupid. If anything it makes them more valid.

[paulxu]

PT was right. You can fool some of the people...all of the time.

[boozehound]

See all of this is missing the context that Trump is NOT a career politician, unlike EVERY other President. The tax return question is stupid on it's face because there has NEVER been a businessman as President before. Of course there are going to be items of question that the IRS has looked into, but...A) There has been no crime established that anything was done untoward. B) There was no "Russia Collusion". C) This ridiculousness of the Democrats trying to impeach over a flimsy obstruction charge is ludicrous. Fact is that the initial Mueller investigation was a result of a concocted scheme by the Dems through a falsified FISA warrrant which misled the court and caused this "surveillance" on Trump which resulted in zero. Now the left is trying to circle back and call obstruction vs a charge that never should have been made in the first place. Way to dance Dems. Thinking people see right through it. Meanwhile the 'NO Crisis at the Border" that the media and Dems kept claiming when Trump was shutting down the government, errrrr, has materialized into, huh, a crisis at the border everyday. But, see. By just continuing the obstruction/impeachment narrative, that keeps the Dems from having to actually Address Problems like the border or infrastructure.

Trump is an orange haired, narcissistic self absorbed a-hole, but his policies are working, and it's about time somebody had the guts to take on China.
A Businessman who had zero vested interest in Washington. Guess what. That is what the people voted for rather than a charlatan like Bernie Sanders while decrying the wealthy, gets rich himself...like Pelosi, etc. And the media hate him because he's not beholding to them, like most pandering politicians are.

Holy smokes. Did Trump write this?

I disagree with virtually all of this, with the exception of the China stuff. I will, however, take the time to address the specific issues you mentioned instead of lapsing into some sort of apparent fugue state and spewing talking points from cable news with limited punctuation.

1. Tax Returns - Why does him being 'a businessman' mean that we shouldn't want to see his taxes? I understand that they will likely show losses that aren't entirely 'real' etc. but I still would like to see his books. Do businessmen not have taxes? I'll give you some leeway on the whole 'not putting his businesses in a blind trust' thing, but allowing him to retain control of his business interests while also not really caring to know what they are is crazy. Try to think objectively and logically through that.

2. Russia - I purposefully made no mention of the Russia collusion narrative since nothing has been proven. I agree with you (for the most part) that all the theater around impeaching for collusion is stupid. I think he probably obstructed justice. It seems to just be how Trump 'works'. I don't know that he believed or knew that he was asking people to obstruct justice. I also think the whole point is moot, because there is no way Senate would convict. See: Clinton, William.

3. Bernie Sanders - Isn't he worth like $2MM? That really isn't much for someone his age who is considered even relatively successful. He is mostly talking about the 1%, which is people who have over (I think) $12MM in assets. His $2MM doesn't even put him in the top 5% by most measures I don't like his politics. In fact, he is one of a very small list of people that might make me consider not voting against Trump if he were to receive the Democratic nomination. Having said that, I think it would be difficult to intelligently argue that Bernie Sanders is a charlatan while Trump is not, which is a pretty direct comparison you made. Trump is all smoke and mirrors. Bernie has been relatively consistent. Generally wrong, but consistent.

Mostly, I think it's F'd up that a bunch of people who ran around talking about 'draining the swamp' are suddenly so OK with so much cronyism, nepotism, and lack of transparency. Why not hold Trump accountable for those things? You don't have to canonize him because you agree with his economic policies. Just because he is 'your guy' doesn't mean that you can't demand some level of transparency or respect for the office of the President of the United States of America.

[bobbiemcgee]

There was no "Russia Collusion"

Said this morning:

…."I had nothing to do with Russia helping me to get elected."

I don't believe he colluded that much but the Ruskies definitely hated Hillary and helped get him elected. Trump, Jr. said money was "pouring in from Russia."