Politics Thread

[Xville]

Pure recitation of talking points that all one has to do to save for their future is not spend all their money. In a vacuum that works, but in the real world people have necessary bills that must be paid and sometimes those bills don't equal their pay and is sometimes more than their pay. You get to a point where you have to choose something you need but must now live without. There are times where healthcare costs drive families to massive amounts of debt. But hey, its all their choice right? More bootstraps all around, that should cover it.

I was fortunate, academic/music scholarships covered my tuition. I was able to work during college and get parental help to cover the room/board/books. I left with zero debt and have live pretty well. I, however, know a lot of people who weren't so fortunate.

The state of this economy is perilous because it's being propped up by a rise in consumer debt. You want a really good economy, it needs to be propped up by the middle class spending that isn't accompanied by the acquisition of debt.

So in your mind, the same people who spend outside their means, are going to suddenly stop doing that when they make more money and save? Nope.

For the most part, you can control what you spend and how...mortgage/rent, type of car, food, discretionary spending, phone, internet/cable etc etc.

Middle class people are not going without needs like shelter, food etc. To try to even make that argument is silly

[Caf]

So in your mind, the same people who spend outside their means, are going to suddenly stop doing that when they make more money and save? Nope.

For the most part, you can control what you spend and how...mortgage/rent, type of car, food, discretionary spending, phone, internet/cable etc etc.

Middle class people are not going without needs like shelter, food etc. To try to even make that argument is silly

Really impressive to see how quickly a discussion can go from arguing about the significance of the inequality gap into pure hyperbole.

[noteggs]

I too was fortunate while going to school. Got scholarship, loans, and worked two jobs to pay for tuition and a terrible apartment. One job to pay bills and other to prepare myself for my career. However, it took me a few extra years to get through. This opportunity taught me the importance of hard work and self sufficiency.

Also, I’m fortunate because l live in the best capitalistic society (yes...not perfect) in the world and went to a great school in X. These two things allowed me to do things I never thought possible and this is coming from a guy who’s dad had a great career working at Ford on an assembly line then to a mid-level management job without a college degree. (love that man)

These experiences also taught me to take care of the less fortunate as I got breaks from wonderful people along the way...

Bottom line, I have much more confidence in the individual human spirit than I do with the government picking winners and losers.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Really impressive to see how quickly a discussion can go from arguing about the significance of the inequality gap into pure hyperbole.

I love it, this thread was slowing down so it needed a kick start. Yes, you can control those costs that Xville mentions, however when you are the minimum and they exceed your salary you have problems. There are somethings you can't control that kill your finances...layoff, sickness, accidents, disaster at the home, etc.

Take a new teacher in Phoenix, they would typically have 2-300 bucks in student loans already out of the gate. They make only $38k per year, well now after the small raise they received. After pulling out taxes/retirement/healthcare, a teacher is largely left with a bit under $2k/month. XVille, your job should you choose to accept it, choose expenses wisely and tell me how you live off of that. In Phoenix, a $600/month apartment is a slum (guys are slinging outside) and an $800/month is at least clean but in a high crime area.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I too was fortunate while going to school. Got scholarship, loans, and worked two jobs to pay for tuition and a terrible apartment. One job to pay bills and other to prepare myself for my career. However, it took me a few extra years to get through. This opportunity taught me the importance of hard work and self sufficiency.

Also, I’m fortunate because l live in the best capitalistic society (yes...not perfect) in the world and went to a great school in X. These two things allowed me to do things I never thought possible and this is coming from a guy who’s dad had a great career working at Ford on an assembly line then to a mid-level management job without a college degree. (love that man)

These experiences also taught me to take care of the less fortunate as I got breaks from wonderful people along the way...

Bottom line, I have much more confidence in the individual human spirit than I do with the government picking winners and losers.

Good point, but how would correctly taxing the upper 1% and using those dollars to fully fund schools/healthcare for all/etc. be the government picking winners and losers.

Disclosure, I don't think we are nearly the best capitalist society. We leave far too many people behind. The best in the world, do their best for all their citizens.

[Xville]

I love it, this thread was slowing down so it needed a kick start. Yes, you can control those costs that Xville mentions, however when you are the minimum and they exceed your salary you have problems. There are somethings you can't control that kill your finances...layoff, sickness, accidents, disaster at the home, etc.

Take a new teacher in Phoenix, they would typically have 2-300 bucks in student loans already out of the gate. They make only $38k per year, well now after the small raise they received. After pulling out taxes/retirement/healthcare, a teacher is largely left with a bit under $2k/month. XVille, your job should you choose to accept it, choose expenses wisely and tell me how you live off of that. In Phoenix, a $600/month apartment is a slum (guys are slinging outside) and an $800/month is at least clean but in a high crime area.

Pretty easy

I'll take a 800 apartment or I'll get a roommate and save a couple hundred dollars per month
Utilities 150
Used car for 300/month
Grocery 300 for one person is more than sufficient
Internet/cable/phone 150
Car insurance probably 50

That leaves about 250...maybe I have loans, maybe I dont but either way I have money left over even if you take into account gas and miscellaneous. When I graduated, i put 50/month in a Roth..every little but helps. I also lived with 3 other guys to save money so that may be an option as well...then even as someone making 35k a year, you can save couple hundred dollars a month.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Pretty easy

I'll take a 800 apartment or I'll get a roommate and save a couple hundred dollars per month
Utilities 150
Used car for 300/month
Grocery 300 for one person is more than sufficient
Internet/cable/phone 150
Car insurance probably 50

That leaves about 250...maybe I have loans, maybe I dont but either way I have money left over even if you take into account gas and miscellaneous. When I graduated, i put 50/month in a Roth..every little but helps. I also lived with 3 other guys to save money so that may be an option as well...then even as someone making 35k a year, you can save couple hundred dollars a month.

Car insurance for a 22 year old is $50? Lol, you are being hilarious or you are insulting me. In Phoenix, it's $150. You forgot student loans and gas, I mean you plan on driving that used car right? $150 for all utilities is off, it's more like $200 at least especially in Phoenix summer for water and electricity ($200 is conservative). Lol on the internet/cable/phone being $150 also (more like just the phone and internet or cable not both). Look if you are going to play the game play fair. Don't just come in unrealistically low and say everything is hunky dory.

My wife is a teacher and I know a lot of her friends. You don't just find a roommate. You have to vet roommates.

[Xville]

Car insurance for a 22 year old is $50? Lol, you are being hilarious or you are insulting me. In Phoenix, it's $150. You forgot student loans and gas, I mean you plan on driving that used car right? $150 for all utilities is off, it's more like $200 at least especially in Phoenix summer for water and electricity ($200 is conservative). Lol on the internet/cable/phone being $150 also (more like just the phone and internet or cable not both). Look if you are going to play the game play fair. Don't just come in unrealistically low and say everything is hunky dory.

My wife is a teacher and I know a lot of her friends. You don't just find a roommate. You have to vet roommates.

It's difficult as a 22 year old to find roommates? Do you not have any friends? Come on that's a stretch.

Get a roommate and probably saving 400 in expenses and it goes up from there with more roommate you get.

Or if you choose to live single, then take public transit.

Life is about choices...decided to spend 80- 100k in college to make 38k a year with not much upside in a state that pays one of the worst salaries in the country. Admirable yes, but dont cry about salary when you knew what you were signing up for...and even still you can make it work and save money.

[bigdiggins]

Good point, but how would correctly taxing the upper 1% and using those dollars to fully fund schools/healthcare for all/etc. be the government picking winners and losers.

Disclosure, I don't think we are nearly the best capitalist society. We leave far too many people behind. The best in the world, do their best for all their citizens.

Pure recitation of talking points. No rich people work hard and earn anything. They all just get it off of everyone else's hard work. Ignore the fact that the top 1% pay 39% of income taxes and the top 10% pay 71% they aren't paying their fare share. Ignore that the US pays more as a % of GDP than most countries and that starting teacher salaries are 20% higher than the average OECD nation (and are the highest portion of the aforementioned GDP spend) we aren't spending enough to be the best in the world. Spend more of other people's money is always the answer.

A quick review of Phoenix public schools reveals their calendar is less than 10 months. 38k equates to 45k. Granted part time or seasonal work wouldnt pay the same but it's still easily 40+. Of course in the freezing cold ghetto of Phoenix there's probably no part time or seasonal work available to help make car payments.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Pure recitation of talking points. No rich people work hard and earn anything. They all just get it off of everyone else's hard work. Ignore the fact that the top 1% pay 39% of income taxes and the top 10% pay 71% they aren't paying their fare share. Ignore that the US pays more as a % of GDP than most countries and that starting teacher salaries are 20% higher than the average OECD nation (and are the highest portion of the aforementioned GDP spend) we aren't spending enough to be the best in the world. Spend more of other people's money is always the answer.

A quick review of Phoenix public schools reveals their calendar is less than 10 months. 38k equates to 45k. Granted part time or seasonal work wouldnt pay the same but it's still easily 40+. Of course in the freezing cold ghetto of Phoenix there's probably no part time or seasonal work available to help make car payments.

On your tax item, again if this is such a great plan then why are we only better then Russia in first world income disparity. Why do we have massive poverty? Why do we have an indentured servitude system with student loans?

Second item, so are you saying nobody in Arizona should be teachers? If they can’t make money teaching we shouldn’t have any? It’s their fault for becoming a teacher. It’s not just teaching, it’s all jobs that make 40k.


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