Cryers really crying today

[xubrew]

Of the three new Big East members only one was projected to finish in the Top 3 with an All American candidate. Can you name which program?

I'm sure politics had something to do with it, and a new conference is a long play, but having a new team like that to kick off an essentially new conference and network couldn't hurt. I very much doubt Fox put up a fight. And I haven't heard a word from any of my contacts at FS1 to indicate they were in any way opposed.

Also, they do consider Dayton to be a separate market. For those who disagree, please just accept that. It's verifiably (and verified) true.

Yes, Creighton was picked to finish in the top three last year. VCU and Wichita (if the Big East really wanted to go that far west) would have also been picked to finish in the top three last year. Unlike Creighton, they would have also been picked to finish in the top three next year, and probably the year after that, and the year after that.

I just don't see it with Creighton. They're more like the Murray State team from a few years back that had one really strong NBA caliber player, and that got really hot and ranked really high for one season, but had no real staying power when it came to remaining relevant on the national scene.

I agree that there wasn't much resistance on the part of Fox, but they weren't a team that Fox particularly really wanted either. I just don't think they cared either way. Since you know people at FS1, would you agree with me in saying that there was a team that Fox did kinda want, and that it wasn't Creighton?? To be fair, no one else in the original C7 was all that excited about them, so I think Fox was the only reason this team got any mention at all.

FWIW, given the choice between Wichita, VCU, Creighton and one the teams Fox kinda wanted not not having any of them, I'd still rather it just be a league of nine. But, if I had to pick one of them, it wouldn't have been Creighton. I'd have probably gone with VCU. I know they're a public school, but I believe there was a time when Pitt was the only public school in the Big East, and many consider that to be the conference's golden age.

[LA Muskie]

Yes, Creighton was picked to finish in the top three last year. VCU and Wichita (if the Big East really wanted to go that far west) would have also been picked to finish in the top three last year. Unlike Creighton, they would have also been picked to finish in the top three next year, and probably the year after that, and the year after that.

Probably true. But neither fits the profile that the C7 was looking for.

I just don't see it with Creighton. They're more like the Murray State team from a few years back that had one really strong NBA caliber player, and that got really hot and ranked really high for one season, but had no real staying power when it came to remaining relevant on the national scene.

I don't think that's entirely fair. I think you were searching for an analogous situation and couldn't really find one. There's no guarantee that Creighton will consistently perform in the upper third (or even half) of the conference. But with its support, its facilities, and its new profile, you can't assume it won't. Creighton was #10 when there were only 9 obvious choices. As such, it is going to be a debatable selection.

I agree that there wasn't much resistance on the part of Fox, but they weren't a team that Fox particularly really wanted either. I just don't think they cared either way. Since you know people at FS1, would you agree with me in saying that there was a team that Fox did kinda want, and that it wasn't Creighton?? To be fair, no one else in the original C7 was all that excited about them, so I think Fox was the only reason this team got any mention at all.

I'm aware of at least 3 schools that Fox was particularly interested in -- each of which was discounted for very different reasons. I'm not sure the degree to which the C7 was or was not interested in any of them, so I don't know which one in particular you are referring to.

FWIW, given the choice between Wichita, VCU, Creighton and one the teams Fox kinda wanted not not having any of them, I'd still rather it just be a league of nine. But, if I had to pick one of them, it wouldn't have been Creighton. I'd have probably gone with VCU. I know they're a public school, but I believe there was a time when Pitt was the only public school in the Big East, and many consider that to be the conference's golden age.

I too would have been fine with 9. But I suspect FS1 needed the additional inventory. Being at 10 also gives some degree of insurance in case a school ever leaves (although I don't see any of the 10 going anywhere at this point). If the only thing that mattered was performance on the basketball court, then I agree that VCU would have been the choice. But that's leaving out a number of important factors. Leave out geography (another important factor) and my choice would have been Gonzaga.

[paulxu]

I never said Dayton wasn't a different media market. It is.
But it's in the same state as Xavier...last I checked. I think that makes difference for Xavier...and Fox.
I also think VCU and Wichita struggle against the "institutional fit." Certainly not on the basketball court.

You might like 9 for an 16 game conference schedule, and it may set up mathematically better for RPI effect, but most big conferences have gone to an 18 game conference schedule I think...and Fox probably wanted that.

So I'm guessing it came down to St Louis and Creighton. Did the BOT thing make a diff? Probably. But that still wasn't the "only" factor.

[LA Muskie]

I never said Dayton wasn't a different media market. It is.
But it's in the same state as Xavier...last I checked. I think that makes difference for Xavier...and Fox.
I also think VCU and Wichita struggle against the "institutional fit." Certainly not on the basketball court.

You might like 9 for an 16 game conference schedule, and it may set up mathematically better for RPI effect, but most big conferences have gone to an 18 game conference schedule I think...and Fox probably wanted that.

So I'm guessing it came down to St Louis and Creighton. Did the BOT thing make a diff? Probably. But that still wasn't the "only" factor.

I agree with most of this. Except for the bold parts.

[xubrew]

I don't think that's entirely fair. I think you were searching for an analogous situation and couldn't really find one. There's no guarantee that Creighton will consistently perform in the upper third (or even half) of the conference. But with its support, its facilities, and its new profile, you can't assume it won't. Creighton was #10 when there were only 9 obvious choices. As such, it is going to be a debatable selection.

I guess it's a fair point that you don't think it's entirely fair. After thinking about it, my opinions are based more on what I think of Greg McDermott than what I think of Creighton specifically. The Northern Iowa teams he had between 03-06 were good, but I never felt they were as good as they should've been, and they never seemed to be good down the stretch (especially the last two years). They had good players, but later in the season as teams began to figure them out, they never made any adjustments. They would do well early on, make some waves nationally, and then completely die down the stretch and never get past the first round. Over and over and over again. He then went to Iowa State.....and did absolutely nothing.

So, now that he's at Creighton and his son isn't, and that the other upperclassmen who were largely recruited by Altman aren't there, I just think they're done. My feelings a year ago before the season even started was that Creighton better enjoy this, because this is it. I don't have any dislike toward McDermott. I just don't think he's anything better than an okay coach, and I don't see him keeping Creighton competitive or nationally relevant. I also don't think Creighton hired him for him.

You're right about Murray State not being the best analogy. If you've got a better one let me know. I just can't find too many examples of okay-not bad-but certainly not good coaches who have a son that's an all-American, and that has much better results than he's ever had before and will likely ever have again.

I agree with most of this. Except for the bold parts.

Me too.

[GoMuskies]

McDermott sucks as a coach more than Aaron Craft sucks as a PG.

Creighton will be fine....when McDermott is gone.

[GoMuskies]

BTW, having Creighton in the league is worth it just to have TD Ameritrade Park as a Big East venue. That place is ridiculous.

[LA Muskie]

You're right about Murray State not being the best analogy. If you've got a better one let me know. I just can't find too many examples of okay-not bad-but certainly not good coaches who have a son that's an all-American, and that has much better results than he's ever had before and will likely ever have again.

I never said I did! Seriously though, I'm hearing you on McDermott. And the fact that politics may have played a big part in things. But I also think the timing worked out extraordinarily well for them (they unquestionably were going to have a big year with a very marketable player in the inaugural season of the league and the network). Whether that was a good long-term play is another question.

[X-band '01]

Meanwhile, Dayton's Elite 8 run resulted in about $57,000 worth of overtime pay for UD and surrounding police:

Matt Norlander - CBSSports.com

The kicker here is that the university is not going to reimburse other police departments for riot control - namely Dayton, Kettering and Miami Township Police.



And no, I don't know what the cost was to reimburse grocery stores for all the watermelons that were violated.

[paulxu]

Xavier needs a guarantee game in Cincinnati on Friday, November 21, 2014. Great guarantee available and national television. Please email
mercuriom@xavier.edu if interested