Sumner

Not a thread designed to rip the kid just an observation that I think is good to mention. The last 2 games he went 0 for the game with 1 point then only 2-6 with no 3's against a bad DePaul team in addition to some bad turnovers. I for one am happy he is struggling a bit right now. I say that cause he is a freshman who has been pretty dominate up to this point. I think the last 2 games are great for his development and I can't wait to see how he responds over the next week or so. Does he fight through and get that confidence back or does he go into a shell and still struggle? There is no question he has the talent... Now does he have the mental fortitude to overcome these last couple games to get us to the Villanova game with the conference title on the line? I think how he responds over the next few games is going to tell us how far X is going to go this year because of how important he is to our success. Thoughts?

Punctuation matters.

Sumner will be fine, I'm not too worried. As long as everybody does their part we shouldn't worry if some of our guys have a couple bad games honestly.

He is talented but has little muscle nor experience. He flies to the hoop and bounces off of post players like a rubber ball.

He needs experience and bulk.

His speed works in 1 3 1 defense for deflections and in transition.

He is arguably the most talented player on the team. I think he has forced things on offense too much the last two games.

Freshman go though that. Their output can often be erratic.

Trevon has missed scoring in double figures one game this year, a home game against the Cincinnati Bearcats.

Last year he missed scoring in double figures 17 times, around half the time. He was hit or miss, and Freshman do that.

I am impressed at how Trevon always gets his points. He might have two at the half but don't worry, it is coming. I can only imagine the young man as an upper classman.

Edmond is going to be a fantastic player. He is going to have ups and downs like anyone else. The Big East is a high level for a guy to move to after playing high school basketball. And you have great players and coaches studying tape and making a game plan with an effort to shut him down.

I have all the confidence in the world for the young man. He has had a fantastic freshman campaign and I can't wait to see what happens next.

He's a first year player. These things happen. I suspect he's probably suffering some fatigue -- one of the reasons he really needs to put some muscle on those bones. But he's also faced two of the best, most experienced guards in the league the last two games. I'm not worried in the least about him. He'll be all we need him to be -- and, I'd bet, much more -- come March.


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There's plenty of film for teams to watch now that wasn't available early this season. Teams see what're Edmunds strengths and game plan for it. It is now up to Mack, et al to counter and for Edmund to execute those counterpunches. Also, playing in the BE is grueling, so there's no nights off, especially on the road. I agree with others here that Edmund will be special, but am not worried at all at this point as he goes through the typical growing pains that most all freshman talents go through.

Oh I think he will be fine in the long run I am just curious on how he responds now. Myles Davis didn't respond as a freshman and never got his confidence back that year. I think we all know how good he is now and how mentally tough he is, but the question is will sumner respond like Myles or will he respond much sooner? I like young guys going through early adversity because I think I really helps them to grow. Better it happen now than in March

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Originally Posted by X-band '01

Punctuation matters.

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On a phone punctuation takes too long on one lol

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Originally Posted by nasdadjr

On a phone punctuation takes too long on one lol

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No, it doesn't. See, now I am using all sorts: commas, periods, colons. I might even throw in a semicolon; they can prove useful. ;)

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Not when ur at work trying to get a post out on a short ass break

When discussing the "freshman wall," I believe practice is really what grinds on the young guys.

They are playing fewer games than HS/AAU. Granted, the college games are at a higher level. But it has to be considered that Ed is playing against Remy, Larry, and Myles everyday, two of which are plus defenders, the third of which has the instincts, while attacking against an elite front line.

I believe Ed will get out of the funk against St. John's, but there's no doubt he's earning his stripes day in and day out.

It really isn't. The coaches are very cognizant of fatigue -- practices during the season get trimmed down significantly. Basically they want to maintain the guys' fitness, work on problem areas, and practice against the next opponents' movements. Most practices are surprisingly short (relatively speaking).


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Originally Posted by XUFan09

No, it doesn't. See, now I am using all sorts: commas, periods, colons. I might even throw in a semicolon; they can prove useful. ;)

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???????

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Originally Posted by LA Muskie

It really isn't. The coaches are very cognizant of fatigue -- practices during the season get trimmed down significantly. Basically they want to maintain the guys' fitness, work on problem areas, and practice against the next opponents' movements. Most practices are surprisingly short (relatively speaking).


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I'm sure the coaching staff knows how to scale back appropriately.

And I think that's a fair assessment for players who have been in the system, but the intensity of a high school practice vs. a college practice is far different, and Sumner wasn't going against size in HS like he is now.

A program like Detroit Country day probably does a pretty good job of scaling back as well.

I think we mostly agree. It's a long season. More games AND more practices. I think it's the overall intensity of the season that can get to first year kids. The coaching staff is acutely aware of the issue and good ones (like ours) are always keeping an eye on things to make sure they don't practice the kids into the ground. But you've still gotta practice, so it's certainly not a vacation between games.


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Originally Posted by xu82

???????

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I was quoting his claim that he didn't have time for proper punctuation.

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Originally Posted by LA Muskie

I think we mostly agree. It's a long season. More games AND more practices. I think it's the overall intensity of the season that can get to first year kids. The coaching staff is acutely aware of the issue and good ones (like ours) are always keeping an eye on things to make sure they don't practice the kids into the ground. But you've still gotta practice, so it's certainly not a vacation between games.


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Yep, I think that's a good way of putting it. While the combined HS/AAU play may lead to more games, they aren't nearly as intense or physical as the college game. Couple with the practices, and you can imagine how the wall happens.

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Originally Posted by nasdadjr

Not when ur at work trying to get a post out on a short ass break

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Nope, still doesn't take long. Phones have improved significantly in this regard.

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Originally Posted by XUFan09

Nope, still doesn't take long. Phones have improved significantly in this regard.

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http://m.quickmeme.com/img/26/263bbe...316d34b0f0.jpg

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Originally Posted by XUFan09

I was quoting his claim that he didn't have time for proper punctuation.

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I know, I was going for pure punctuation. I trust the coaches and Ed to get this right and see it as no big deal. Freshman have a lot of learning and growing to do. It goes with the territory. He'll be fine in the long run. In the meantime, we are so deep it's not the end of the world.

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Originally Posted by nasdadjr

On a phone punctuation takes too long on one lol

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Originally Posted by XUFan09

No, it doesn't. See, now I am using all sorts: commas, periods, colons. I might even throw in a semicolon; they can prove useful. ;)

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I will say this for Nasdad - he's a much better sport about it than another poster who thinks being able to jump off one foot is life and death.

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Originally Posted by X-band '01

I will say this for Nasdad - he's a much better sport about it than another poster who thinks being able to jump off one foot is life and death.

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Yep, he definitely takes it in stride. I just wish he would make his posts more readable lol.

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I'm guilty of poker grammar. I won't condemn.

Punctuation notwithstanding, I think this is an interesting topic... Here recent star X guards in their frosh seasons on ppg (not a terribly accurate stat, but a decent blunt object for production):

Semaj 12/13:
Nov/Dec - 16.8
Jan - 15.3
Feb - 16.9
March - 13.4

Trevon 14/15:
Nov/Dec - 12.4
Jan - 12.3
Feb - 11.6
March - 5.7

Sumner 15/16:
Nov/Dec - 11
Jan - 9
Feb - TBD
March - TBD

Sumner is a great talent who can electrify (eg, dunk vs. UC, game takeover vs. Wake, speed for days), but his numbers aren't other-worldly by comparison. Sumner's supporting cast and number of other scorers available are stronger than Trevon and Semaj had their freshman years. (Also interesting that despite Semaj's diet of twizzlers and fruit rollups (cramp-gate vs. UC), he didn't have nearly the fade Trevon had his freshman year.)

Sumner's future is bright, but he's still developing.

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Originally Posted by zanesxu

Punctuation not withstanding, I think this is an interesting topic... Here recent star X guards in their frosh seasons on ppg (not a terribly accurate stat, but a decent blunt object for production):

Semaj 12/13:
Nov/Dec - 16.8
Jan - 15.3
Feb - 16.9
March - 13.4

Trevon 14/15:
Nov/Dec - 12.4
Jan - 12.3
Feb - 11.6
March - 5.7

Sumner 15/16:
Nov/Dec - 11
Jan - 9
Feb - TBD
March - TBD

Sumner is a great talent who can electrify (eg, dunk vs. UC, game takeover vs. Wake, speed for days), but his numbers aren't other-worldly by comparison. Sumner's supporting cast and number of other scorers available are stronger than Trevon and Semaj had their freshman years. (Also interesting that despite Semaj's diet of twizzlers and fruit rollups (cramp-gate vs. UC), he didn't have nearly the fade Trevon had his freshman year.)

Sumner's future is bright, but he's still developing.

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How about comparing pts per minute played.

Semaj played with limited weapons, and Trevon is not a PG.

Apples, oranges, but still relevant. There is no pressure on Ed to carry scoring. He's going to get 8 mostly discretionary shots a game, Semsj double that, and more "required."to carry the scoring load, poorer supporting offensive cast.

I take Ed 10/10 times if we are picking teams, even if saddled with semaj's supporting cast. Bigger, faster, more scoring range, defense a wash.

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Originally Posted by X-man

How about comparing pts per minute played.

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Going a bit more granular than is helpful, but what the hell...
Conclusions are about the same - numbers still aren't other-worldly. This comparison isn't about pure positions, talent ceiling, supporting cast... just interesting to see how three talents compare
(credit to kenpom)

Offensive Rating & ppm
Semaj 12/13:
Nov/Dec - 91.5; 0.39
Jan - 102.5; 0.51
Feb - 115; 0.44
March - 110.5; 0.44

Trevon 14/15:
Nov/Dec - 121; 0.45
Jan - 105.3; 0.40
Feb - 102.5; 0.40
March - 83; 0.20

Sumner 15/16:
Nov/Dec - 105; 0.45
Jan - 88.4; 0.33
Feb - TBD
March - TBD

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Originally Posted by zanesxu

Punctuation not withstanding, I think this is an interesting topic... Here recent star X guards in their frosh seasons on ppg (not a terribly accurate stat, but a decent blunt object for production):

Sumner's future is bright, but he's still developing.

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So, not looking at punctuation here, but spelling. I believe the word you're looking for is notwithstanding versus not withstanding. You compounded the word into one meaning not able to stand up to something. For example, the weight of an object or the constant badgering of another person. The word notwithstanding means in spite of, which is the one you're seeking.

I can only imagine your gestures, facial expression and expletives being uttered at me at this point. :cool:

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Originally Posted by vee4xu

So, not looking at punctuation here, but spelling. I believe the word you're looking for is notwithstanding versus not withstanding. You compounded the word into one meaning not able to stand up to something. For example, the weight of an object or the constant badgering of another person. The word notwithstanding means in spite of, which is the one you're seeking.

I can only imagine your gestures, facial expression and expletives being uttered at me at this point. :cool:

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edited...
(at least it wasn't your/you're, their/there, too/to...)

Sumner is pretty skinny and is getting bumped a lot when he slashes inside so he may be wearing down but we're not that dependent on him for scoring. Hope he's not hitting a wall but as long as he distributes and plays defense I think we'll be ok.

He's a redshirt freshman with more time to get himself ready for a full season in the Big East even with his knee problems. Saturday LAJ came in and played great and Ed didn't have to do a lot. His last shots aren't falling. He's not bricking everything like Trevon went through. He's still got about 6 different gears he can switch to with one trip up the floor with the ball. He dunked easy at Depaul but man his jump is up and away as quick as anybody. I'm not one bit concerned.

He's definitely showing some signs of either wearing down or slowing down......

I'm not worried about Sumner. Just a couple rough games, and hes been getting a little more attention from opposing defenses. If he has a bad month of February it might be reason for concern. at this point i would be more concerned with Abell.

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Originally Posted by letskeepitreal

Sumner is pretty skinny and is getting bumped a lot when he slashes inside so he may be wearing down but we're not that dependent on him for scoring. Hope he's not hitting a wall but as long as he distributes and plays defense I think we'll be ok.

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I feel like I am required to state that there should be a comma between wall and but in the above sentence, but I am worried about making a grammatical error in my response.

Justin Martin went into the tank after his concussion his junior season (last season here). I don't think ED is going through the same thing.

He will be fine. Great to see LAJ step up.

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Originally Posted by XUMIOH12

I'm not worried about Sumner. Just a couple rough games, and hes been getting a little more attention from opposing defenses. If he has a bad month of February it might be reason for concern. at this point i would be more concerned with Abell.

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Abell is not a scorer.....and we don't really rely on him to score. I think when he does it's a bonus. I'd love to see him rebound better more than anything. Sumner is so much more important at PG........

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Originally Posted by bleedXblue

Abell is not a scorer.....and we don't really rely on him to score. I think when he does it's a bonus. I'd love to see him rebound better more than anything. Sumner is so much more important at PG........

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obviously hes not a big scorer, but his percentages are way down this year. Hes still playing good man defense, but with the amount of zone we play, that isn't quite as valuable. Of course Sumner is more valuable at PG, but im just saying at this point im not really worried about him.