Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by xavierj

90 police officers were killed in the line of duty last year and I think 4 or 5 over the last week. Are nurses and doctors getting killed at the same rate? Maybe they are but I have not ever heard that.

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I understand that, and even alluded to it. My point is that we've seen multiple examples of police using high levels of force in situations that aren't any more volatile than what a lot of doctors and nurses face who work with the mentally. Case and point, the video with the old man. That was HARDLY a volatile situation. Not even close. The expectation should be that the police be able to handle a situation like that without harming anyone.

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Originally Posted by xubrew

Okay, this is what I can't seem to get past....

I know several cops. I also know several ER doctors and nurses. I also know people who work psychiatric hospitals with those who are severely mentally ill.

Out of those three groups, the cops are the ones that are physically attacked the least. Those who are in a psychiatric hospital aren't ever likely to find themselves in a shootout, but a lot of the violence that we've seen has not protesters people who were using lethal force. The old man in this video was CLEARLY not a lethal threat.

If a doctor, nurse, or psychiatrist responded that way to a patient who did nothing more than what this older man did, they would definitely be fired, definitely be sued, and most likely arrested. So, is it asking too much to hold the cops to the same standards that ER doctors, nurses, and psychiatrists are held to when dealing with potentially volatile situations?? I don't think that it is.

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I don't know that is a fair comparison. There is a major difference in the nature of the attacks. Medical professionals are getting attacked by someone who they are trying to care for and not in their right mind. It's a mindset that doesn't provoke any "offense", just defense. I will point out that there are instances where attempts to restrain folks in medical care end in serious injuries or deaths. It's unfortunately the nature of physical conflict.

I'm not defending this specific action (don't know enough to defend or condemn it). But we are asking an awful lot from cops to be insulted, spit on, and have things thrown or shot at them, without reacting. I

Finally, I will say this: if it was my daughter who was mouthing off to the cops and was pepper sprayed, I'd tell her sorry, you had it coming.

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

Finally, I will say this: if it was my daughter who was mouthing off to the cops and was pepper sprayed, I'd tell her sorry, you had it coming.

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Ah, responsible parenting. I firmly believe that if we had more of it most of these discussions would be nonexistent.

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Originally Posted by xavierj

90 police officers were killed in the line of duty last year and I think 4 or 5 over the last week. Are nurses and doctors getting killed at the same rate? Maybe they are but I have not ever heard that.

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But you did claim to see this, from your earlier post on this thread: "Saw one from a highly recruited black football player that said how he hated white people and that white people are trash. No one is pulling his offers."

Still waiting for your source on this. It's not helpful to just make shit up.

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Originally Posted by Xville

The guy walked up, got in an officer's face, touched another one...what do you think was going to happen?

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Holy shit you can't be serious. Imagine defending that.

To serve and protect...amirite?

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Originally Posted by STL_XUfan

Peacefully deescalate the situation? Possibly, take him into custody or temporarily hold him? Not send an unarmed senior citizen to the ICU. If these officers, who are wearing body armor and carrying weapons, are that afraid of an unarmed senior citizen, maybe they are in the wrong line of work?

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Exactly. What world am I living in where someone can defend that. Not even their department defended that as they are being disciplined. If the guy isnt listening cuff him. Geezus.

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

You’re asking humans not to be humans. Everyone has a breaking point with enough provoking.

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You think that was the situation in that video? What a bunch of BS.

There is responsibility on both sides (non peaceful protesters and overaggressive police) but the actions there arent justifiable. Even the freaking police admitted as much.

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

So you're saying that those without a college degree, political experience, or expertise in a particular area can't have an opinion?

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They can sure but her opinion is no more valid than the Kardahsians. There is a reason she has so many followers (or any following at all) and Go alluded to it previously.

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Originally Posted by AviatorX

At this point, you have to have your head in the sand to think white Americans and black Americans have the same experience with police, or that there isn't merit to the idea that black people are treated less fairly by police. Is that not racism? Yes, I've seen the stats that cops kill more white people than black people. The nuance that folks pointing to those numbers (willfully) miss is that this difference in treatment isn't borne out by one or two statistics. It's made up largely of the subtle difference in treatment during routine stops, patrols, etc. that add up every day for years and years. Pretty much everyone is intelligent enough to process a somewhat intangible concept like this, but many choose not to and hide behind pure statistics as a shield. Not to cheapen the dialogue, but for a tongue in cheek Xavier example of how statistics may not tell the whole story, note that Quentin Goodin is fourth on Xavier's all time assists chart.

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What you're arguing is that anecdotal and subjective evidence is more reliable than objective and statistical evidence. I have never found that to be the case.

I attach an article from National Review. Yes, it's a conservative publication, but I am posting it for the statistics it cites.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...se-narratives/

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Originally Posted by xubrew

Okay, this is what I can't seem to get past....

I know several cops. I also know several ER doctors and nurses. I also know people who work psychiatric hospitals with those who are severely mentally ill.

Out of those three groups, the cops are the ones that are physically attacked the least. Those who are in a psychiatric hospital aren't ever likely to find themselves in a shootout, but a lot of the violence that we've seen has not protesters people who were using lethal force. The old man in this video was CLEARLY not a lethal threat.

If a doctor, nurse, or psychiatrist responded that way to a patient who did nothing more than what this older man did, they would definitely be fired, definitely be sued, and most likely arrested. So, is it asking too much to hold the cops to the same standards that ER doctors, nurses, and psychiatrists are held to when dealing with potentially volatile situations?? I don't think that it is.

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Exactly.

I am sure some will get offended by this but a reason may be those other professions are generally pretty professional higher educated people. You arent always dealing with the brightest people when you are dealing with police officers. I do think that can play a factor.

I could be wrong about the above but that is an area where I think policing needs some reform. I remember reading an article once about a man who really wanted to become a police officer but he scored too high on one of the tests they require. The thought being they dont want people too smart to be police officers because the majority of the job is overall boring and they dont want to train and invest time/money in someone they dont think will be intellectually stimulated enough who will end up quitting.