Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by boozehound

Ahh. The highly credible New York Post. Can someone explain to me what Obamagate even is? A google search only turns up a crazy tweet from Trump with no context and a few articles from highly partisan sources, which also provide essentially no detail except that we should be investigating Obama for something (but not sure what). Are people really this dumb?

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You don't know what it is because the left wing media that you go to either 1) isn't reporting about it or 2) simply says "it's a distraction from what Trump has done". It's no surprise the left wing media doesn't give a damn when a republican's civil rights are completely trampled over by the highest levels of government. If Mike Flynn were a democrat who got destroyed by a republican administration, you can be assured that this story would constantly be all over the news, and you wouldn't be asking the question, "What's this all about?"

This story is just another example of why the left wing media has zero credibility with anyone except for left wingers. I"m still waiting for the media to destroy Biden the way they destroyed Kavanaugh. At least we can agree that Biden's accuser actually met Biden.

And as for your criticism of the article coming from the NY Post, weren't you the person that wrote this earlier in this thread (on 4/29/20 at 4:25 to be exact):

"Which does bring me to this point that Trump supporters and defenders (even the pretend supporters) love: Essentially invalidating any criticism of Trump unless it comes from one of the conservative-sanctioned media sources, which rarely (if ever) criticize Trump. It's a phenomenal way to create your own echo chamber. You simply dismiss anything that doesn't come from an 'approved' media source without giving it a second thought."

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Originally Posted by boozehound

Can someone explain to me what Obamagate even is?

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Below is a couple of articles by Tim Miller that discuss the theory (Tim Miller is a former RNC spokesperson and communication director for Jeb Bush, but also very anti-trump, so obviously a lean on the story).

https://thebulwark.com/taking-obamagate-seriously/

https://thebulwark.com/this-is-what-...e-trump-world/

Our intelligence agencies assessed that Russia interfered in our election.
Republican led Senate Intelligence Committee investigation agreed with this assessment.
The FBI was taping Russian officials because of the interference.
They got Flynn on tape.
He lied to them about that and his unregistered work for another foreign government, Turkey.
He lied to the Vice President and others about those items
He was caught in his lies. The President fired him for lying to the Vice President and others.
He was prosecuted for lying. He plead guilty twice, under oath, and at the risk of perjury to the crimes.
He was scheduled to be sentenced...and Barr had the DOJ withdraw the charges that they pursued for 3 years, and as late as last November.
All of a sudden he wants to withdraw them.

VERY unusual. I think (of course don't know) that the judge could have just ignored the attempted withdrawal, said "the case has been settled and I'm in the sentencing phase."
I'm guessing it so unusual, and of course subjects Flynn to perjury since he swore under oath twice that he was guilty, that the judge needed an outside person to look at it. Another Federal judge seems like a good idea.

I know you got those two articles supporting the conspiracy ideas. But I'll still go with the (now) 2300+ former judges, prosecutors, etc who think that the judge is doing the right thing:

https://medium.com/@dojalumni/doj-al...e-7c38a9a945b9

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Originally Posted by paulxu

Our intelligence agencies assessed that Russia interfered in our election.
Republican led Senate Intelligence Committee investigation agreed with this assessment.
The FBI was taping Russian officials because of the interference.
They got Flynn on tape.
He lied to them about that and his unregistered work for another foreign government, Turkey.
He lied to the Vice President and others about those items
He was caught in his lies. The President fired him for lying to the Vice President and others.
He was prosecuted for lying. He plead guilty twice, under oath, and at the risk of perjury to the crimes.
He was scheduled to be sentenced...and Barr had the DOJ withdraw the charges that they pursued for 3 years, and as late as last November.
All of a sudden he wants to withdraw them.

VERY unusual. I think (of course don't know) that the judge could have just ignored the attempted withdrawal, said "the case has been settled and I'm in the sentencing phase."
I'm guessing it so unusual, and of course subjects Flynn to perjury since he swore under oath twice that he was guilty, that the judge needed an outside person to look at it. Another Federal judge seems like a good idea.

I know you got those two articles supporting the conspiracy ideas. But I'll still go with the (now) 2300+ former judges, prosecutors, etc who think that the judge is doing the right thing:

https://medium.com/@dojalumni/doj-al...e-7c38a9a945b9

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Who cares when a republican's civil rights are trampled over by the highest levels of government? Who cares when a judge completely abdicates his role and now decides he also needs to become the prosecutor in the case before him? After all, it's a republican, and when it's a republican, different rules should and need to be applied. The end justifies the means, no matter how wrong and unconstitutional the means are. Flynn should get treated differently than everyone else- he's not only a republican, but even worse, he was once in the Trump administration.

It's hypocrisy to it's highest degree. But there's no standard like a double standard.

This judge should be removed from this case. What he is doing is not only legally and constitutionally wrong, but probably unethical.

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Originally Posted by XU 87

Who cares when a republican's civil rights are trampled over by the highest levels of government? Who cares when a judge completely abdicates his role and now decides he also needs to become the prosecutor in the case before him? After all, it's a republican, and when it's a republican, different rules should and need to be applied. The end justifies the means, no matter how wrong and unconstitutional the means are. Flynn should get treated differently than everyone else- he's not only a republican, but even worse, he was once in the Trump administration.

It's hypocrisy to it's highest degree. But there's no standard like a double standard.

This judge should be removed from this case. What he is doing is not only legally and constitutionally wrong, but probably unethical.

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I don't even know what all that means? Flynn plead guilty twice, under penalty of perjury.
The judge could sentence him and go home. That he's letting it play out seems very "judicial."
Do you understand that the same people who prosecuted him for all that time, and secured the guilty plea, are now changing their minds?
Do you care it might be political? That it almost never happens? That the lead prosecutor excused himself when Barr intervened. Just like 4 of them did when Barr intervened on Stone.
Perhaps this would help from one of the Stone prosecutors:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...appened-again/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XU 87

You don't know what it is because the left wing media that you go to either 1) isn't reporting about it or 2) simply says "it's a distraction from what Trump has done". It's no surprise the left wing media doesn't give a damn when a republican's civil rights are completely trampled over by the highest levels of government. If Mike Flynn were a democrat who got destroyed by a republican administration, you can be assured that this story would constantly be all over the news, and you wouldn't be asking the question, "What's this all about?"

This story is just another example of why the left wing media has zero credibility with anyone except for left wingers. I"m still waiting for the media to destroy Biden the way they destroyed Kavanaugh. At least we can agree that Biden's accuser actually met Biden.

And as for your criticism of the article coming from the NY Post, weren't you the person that wrote this earlier in this thread (on 4/29/20 at 4:25 to be exact):

"Which does bring me to this point that Trump supporters and defenders (even the pretend supporters) love: Essentially invalidating any criticism of Trump unless it comes from one of the conservative-sanctioned media sources, which rarely (if ever) criticize Trump. It's a phenomenal way to create your own echo chamber. You simply dismiss anything that doesn't come from an 'approved' media source without giving it a second thought."

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So what is it? I'm a subscriber to the Wall Street Journal in addition to the Washington Post and read both daily. I think all would argue that WSJ leans right, although not nearly as much as other sources. I'm not seeing anything on WSJ about 'Obamagate'. Am I creating my own echo chamber by not taking isolated articles from heavily partisan sources as fact?

I guess you get to believe anything when you are willing to discredit the entire mainstream media but believe 1 New York Post article that provide essentially no supporting data.

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Originally Posted by paulxu

I don't even know what all that means? Flynn plead guilty twice, under penalty of perjury.
The judge could sentence him and go home. That he's letting it play out seems very "judicial."
Do you understand that the same people who prosecuted him for all that time, and secured the guilty plea, are now changing their minds?
Do you care it might be political? That it almost never happens? That the lead prosecutor excused himself when Barr intervened. Just like 4 of them did when Barr intervened on Stone.
Perhaps this would help from one of the Stone prosecutors:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...appened-again/

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It's just sad that those on the left care about civil liberties only when they affect those on the left. Everyone else can and should be treated differently because the end justifies the means. Sad to say, but that's where we are.

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Originally Posted by boozehound

So what is it? I'm a subscriber to the Wall Street Journal in addition to the Washington Post and read both daily. I think all would argue that WSJ leans right, although not nearly as much as other sources. I'm not seeing anything on WSJ about 'Obamagate'. Am I creating my own echo chamber by not taking isolated articles from heavily partisan sources as fact?

I guess you get to believe anything when you are willing to discredit the entire mainstream media but believe 1 New York Post article that provide essentially no supporting data.

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I just find it interesting that you don't know anything about this. Not unexpected, but interesting. But it certainly proves my point that the media won't cover this story because it hurts democrats.

As for the WSJ, here's the story that ran last night:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fly...ed-11589411876

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paulxu

Our intelligence agencies assessed that Russia interfered in our election.
Republican led Senate Intelligence Committee investigation agreed with this assessment.
The FBI was taping Russian officials because of the interference.
They got Flynn on tape.
He lied to them about that and his unregistered work for another foreign government, Turkey.
He lied to the Vice President and others about those items
He was caught in his lies. The President fired him for lying to the Vice President and others.
He was prosecuted for lying. He plead guilty twice, under oath, and at the risk of perjury to the crimes.
He was scheduled to be sentenced...and Barr had the DOJ withdraw the charges that they pursued for 3 years, and as late as last November.
All of a sudden he wants to withdraw them.

VERY unusual. I think (of course don't know) that the judge could have just ignored the attempted withdrawal, said "the case has been settled and I'm in the sentencing phase."
I'm guessing it so unusual, and of course subjects Flynn to perjury since he swore under oath twice that he was guilty, that the judge needed an outside person to look at it. Another Federal judge seems like a good idea.

I know you got those two articles supporting the conspiracy ideas. But I'll still go with the (now) 2300+ former judges, prosecutors, etc who think that the judge is doing the right thing:

https://medium.com/@dojalumni/doj-al...e-7c38a9a945b9

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Paul, you seem to truly hate Flynn. You are obsessed with him. Please don't come back with a comment about it being about JUSTICE and DOING WHAT'S RIGHT and HE BROKE THE LAW AND SHOULD BE PUNISHED, etc. Please don't do that. Please come back with something else; some other explanation for your obsession with this case. If it's about justice, then you should be appalled at the conduct of a number of people on your side of the aisle.

On that note, what I don't get about all this, as it pertains to you, is your complete lack of acknowledgement of all the bullshit moves and actions made by certain Far Left politicians, by certain high ranking officials at the FBI, and others.

Unrelated to Flynn, if we want to focus for a minute on true leadership and what is right for America, why does your party keep stuffing non-sense into legislative proposals that should be meant to specifically address economic support and relief efforts in the face of COVID-19? What do the performing arts have to do with COVID-19:

- $25 million in the Senate bill went to the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in Washington, D.C. During the past ten years, the center received $68.3 million in federal grants (2010-2019). The Kennedy Center has total assets of $557 million. The Pelosi bill earmarked $35 million.

- $75 million in the Senate bill funded the Corporation For Public Broadcasting. Why do National Public Radio and Big Bird get a coronavirus subsidy? The Pelosi bill allocated $300 million.

- $1.2 billion in the Pelosi bill to require airlines to purchase expensive “renewable” jet fuel. It was $200 million per year in grants (2021-2026) to “develop, transport, and store sustainable aviation fuels that would reduce U.S. greenhouse gas emissions.” The Senate bill eliminated this provision.

- What is the public purpose for the Smithsonian Institution receiving an additional $7.5 million in this time of crisis?

While governors begged for vital medical supplies, the spending packages each contained massive increases even in obscure, small agencies.

Now we are in this most recent round, having to deal with her bullshit, which will be DOA in the Senate. Why would Pelosi have the audacity to offer legislation that bails out state governments, when everyone knows - KNOWS - that her intent is to help shore-up the budgets of liberal blue states that have mismanaged themselves for years? Leftist politics. Are you proud of all this?

Getting back to the General, along the way, he has been pressured to an extraordinary level. He has been virtually ruined financially. They threatened to ruin his son. I believe his conduct was no worse than that of many people who came before him, and from different offices. Clinton lied about getting sucked off in the Oval Office. He avoided articles of impeachment of perjury and obstruction of justice. Paul, it all depends upon what the definition of "IS" is..... Yeah, right.

Have you ever bothered to look at Flynn's resume? His accomplishments as an AMERICAN?

Lastly, where do you think all this is headed? The last thing that the corrupt people you appear to follow and admire wanted to have happen was to have Bill Barr show up at the Justice Department. Desperate moves are being made now, especially now that the heat lamp has turned. The media? Mentally checked out to the point of Chuck Todd forcing NBC into a formal apology, and journalists sitting in press conferences asking inane and bated questions. Way to pull together for the benefit of the country. Way not to report more often on the good things that are happening across the country. Let's focus on the bad! Let's continue to put the guy - Trump - in as bad a light as possible, even when it means cutting video tape. Politically? A judge goes off half-cocked in an effort to drag Flynn down at all costs.

Where do you think this is headed? Do you believe that Comey is a great AMERICAN?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XU 87

You don't know what it is because the left wing media that you go to either 1) isn't reporting about it or 2) simply says "it's a distraction from what Trump has done". It's no surprise the left wing media doesn't give a damn when a republican's civil rights are completely trampled over by the highest levels of government. If Mike Flynn were a democrat who got destroyed by a republican administration, you can be assured that this story would constantly be all over the news, and you wouldn't be asking the question, "What's this all about?"

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About to post something similar and wanted to add an example. You didn’t hear much about (a few outlets) Obama’s pardoning of General James Cartwright. His only conviction was he plead guilty to lying to the FBI. Hmmm. Can you imagine how the press or Democrats would have acted if Trump pardoned Flynn?

Interesting read and some similarities between the Cartwright and Flynn cases.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-...t-in-leak-case