Xavier FCS Football???

According to an article in the Cincinnati Enquirer today (sorry subscribers only) football is only ONE of the many suggestions that were made as a way to increase enrollment. It is something that they are “looking” at, nothing more at this time. They also would possibly be looking at adding another women’s team if they added football. The problem is that most of the enrollment increase that they have seen in the recent years has happened because of the opening of the nurses program. Evidently there hasn’t been much growth across the rest of the university programs/departments and they are exploring ways to create more growth.

Just for consideration……UC has a record number of freshman in this years class. You’d be hard pressed to not convince me that has nothing to do with the recent success of the football team. Maybe X just needs the Men’s BB team to become successful again?

Put the women on the football team.

I'm not interested in mumbo jumbo accounting. Paying for equipment, facilities, travel, and amenities for a team of up to 100 guys is not cheap. Direct coaching costs and administrative additions to existing athletic staff will be 500K plus.

I cannot pencil out even the BASIC economics here. How much will people pay to watch a high school all-star football game? Maybe $25? And how many people will go....maybe 3000. Thats $75K per game times what, 6 home games. Plus parking and concessions. They wont be TV or partnership money. I'm seeing maybe $750K in total revenue and 1.25M in annual operating costs. Plus the startup costs of building a suitable game field.

Look, I actually think it would be REALLY COOL if we had a football program. Thats me, thinking as a fan. But when I look at it from a business perspective, it doesn't make sense from a P&L point of view. And further, basic business principles will reveal that when you have a very specific "all in" strategy with one product (mens BB), that it makes no sense to divert resources (including TIME as a resource) to something that is not aligned to benefit that singular product.

Unless there is money donated and earmarked just for the startup costs for this, I dont see how it could work.

I think the concept is that it will help attract and retain males, thereby boosting tuition revenue at $50k/kid or whatever. I’d like to see where that has actually worked, because apparently I don’t know enough to have a firm opinion.

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Originally Posted by xu82

I think the concept is that it will help attract and retain males, thereby boosting tuition revenue at $50k/kid or whatever. I’d like to see where that has actually worked, because apparently I don’t know enough to have a firm opinion.

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Marian University in Indy. 20 years ago it was practically a girls school. They have won 1 National Championship and played in another. Lots of guys, lots of success, and the school started a Med School a few years ago.
Mt St Joe actually was a girls school until they started football. Not familiar with details as I don't live in Cincy, but am told it's successful.

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Originally Posted by XUGRAD80

According to an article in the Cincinnati Enquirer today (sorry subscribers only) football is only ONE of the many suggestions that were made as a way to increase enrollment. It is something that they are “looking” at, nothing more at this time. They also would possibly be looking at adding another women’s team if they added football. The problem is that most of the enrollment increase that they have seen in the recent years has happened because of the opening of the nurses program. Evidently there hasn’t been much growth across the rest of the university programs/departments and they are exploring ways to create more growth.

Just for consideration……UC has a record number of freshman in this years class. You’d be hard pressed to not convince me that has nothing to do with the recent success of the football team. Maybe X just needs the Men’s BB team to become successful again?

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It’s more than just “under consideration,” they’re actively fundraising for facilities that would house a new football team.

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Originally Posted by XUGRAD80

According to an article in the Cincinnati Enquirer today (sorry subscribers only) football is only ONE of the many suggestions that were made as a way to increase enrollment. It is something that they are “looking” at, nothing more at this time. They also would possibly be looking at adding another women’s team if they added football. The problem is that most of the enrollment increase that they have seen in the recent years has happened because of the opening of the nurses program. Evidently there hasn’t been much growth across the rest of the university programs/departments and they are exploring ways to create more growth.

Just for consideration……UC has a record number of freshman in this years class. You’d be hard pressed to not convince me that has nothing to do with the recent success of the football team. Maybe X just needs the Men’s BB team to become successful again?

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UC competes at the highest level of football. That's why there is interest. The draw to tailgate and go to parties on Saturdays in the fall is a much bigger draw than continuing your football career for 99% of potential college students, especially when the team is good and entertaining to watch.

Do you know how long it would take a program like Xavier to get to that point in football, if ever? No one cares about lower level football.

I'd venture to guess that Mount Saint Joe football isn't creating this tremendous ROI when you balance the cost of having a program vs. the enrollment bump to bring kids in to play.

I have a better solution - make college affordable. This just seems like a D3 move from a high level D1 basketball school.

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Originally Posted by MHettel

I'm not interested in mumbo jumbo accounting. Paying for equipment, facilities, travel, and amenities for a team of up to 100 guys is not cheap. Direct coaching costs and administrative additions to existing athletic staff will be 500K plus.

I cannot pencil out even the BASIC economics here. How much will people pay to watch a high school all-star football game? Maybe $25? And how many people will go....maybe 3000. Thats $75K per game times what, 6 home games. Plus parking and concessions. They wont be TV or partnership money. I'm seeing maybe $750K in total revenue and 1.25M in annual operating costs. Plus the startup costs of building a suitable game field.

Look, I actually think it would be REALLY COOL if we had a football program. Thats me, thinking as a fan. But when I look at it from a business perspective, it doesn't make sense from a P&L point of view. And further, basic business principles will reveal that when you have a very specific "all in" strategy with one product (mens BB), that it makes no sense to divert resources (including TIME as a resource) to something that is not aligned to benefit that singular product.

Unless there is money donated and earmarked just for the startup costs for this, I dont see how it could work.

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Your speculations aren't TOO far off, but it's still more than what most PFL schools spend. Most don't spend $500k on salaries. The PFL is closer to D3, and for that matter even closer to high school, than it is to big time FBS football. And at some of the schools I'm pretty sure their current apparel deals cover SOME of the costs. It's nothing like basketball where they get shoes, jerseys, jackets, and are paid to wear it, but they're not necessarily paying full price for it either.

As far as attendance and ticket prices, I think you're actually overshooting it. Tickets pretty much range from free to $15 at most. Crowds are 1k-3k typically. For several PFL schools, it's a virtual Olympic Sport. You can park for nothing and come in for less than ten bucks (and maybe not even that).

If they can't do it the way Davidson, Butler, Valpo, and San Diego do it where the cost to the athletic department is literally zero, then I'm not sure I'd be for it. I think xudash did a good job of laying out what the successful vision of it would be and the expectations what it would look like. Most of the people who are against it are coming up with all these problems and issues that just aren't going to happen. No basketball centric schools that play football in the PFL deal with any of those issues. In reality most of the Xavier basketball diehard fans won't ever think about it or even notice that it's there. It will enter their consciousness about as frequently as the soccer teams do. Hell, Xavier would probably still do homecoming in conjunction with a basketball game instead of a PFL football game. Some will like it, most won't notice it, and it won't take anything away from basketball. If the plan that they role out is not consistent with other PFL programs, then I'm with you in not wanting it. But if it can be done the way other schools do it, then I'm for it and actually excited about it. Given the chance, I'll be one of the 1000-3000 people that pays $10 to come see at least one game.

If it can be done right, I'm all for it. Parent's Weekend could include a football game, homecoming should stick with basketball as XUBrew mentions.

Let's say X joins the Pioneer League and the league decides to have a championship game every year. Honestly, I don't know if they do or don't. That should generate some interest. Some on here think there will be no interest because it's non-scholarship football. My question would be then why do probably a hundred small schools have it? They just like to blow money, I doubt it. Is it ND or OSU ? No, but when X played D1 football when I was a student 68-72 it wasn't that level of football either. People still went to the games and enjoyed the experience. It's NOT going to mess up Basketball. It hasn't messed up Bball at Nova, or Butler or Dayton. All 3 Bball programs and many others are flourishing. It's not 1973, it's 50 years later, and the school is on much better financial footing.

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Originally Posted by JTG

Let's say X joins the Pioneer League and the league decides to have a championship game every year. Honestly, I don't know if they do or don't. That should generate some interest. Some on here think there will be no interest because it's non-scholarship football. My question would be then why do probably a hundred small schools have it? They just like to blow money, I doubt it. Is it ND or OSU ? No, but when X played D1 football when I was a student 68-72 it wasn't that level of football either. People still went to the games and enjoyed the experience. It's NOT going to mess up Basketball. It hasn't messed up Bball at Nova, or Butler or Dayton. All 3 Bball programs and many others are flourishing. It's not 1973, it's 50 years later, and the school is on much better financial footing.

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They currently do not, but they do have an auto bid to the FCS playoffs, and there is talk of implementing a championship game. There are currently 11 schools. "Multiple" schools have reached out to the PFL that are either looking to start up football, or cut scholarship football, and want to join the league. I don't know what "multiple" means other than that it is more than one. I don't know if it's two or twenty. But, if it goes to 12 or 14, there is discussion of having two divisions and setting up some sort of crossover game at the end of the year. 1st place vs 1st place, 2nd place vs 2nd place, etc. The game between the first place teams would be the defacto championship game and the winner would go to the FCS Playoffs. Or, maybe no one joins and it stays the way it is now.

Would Xavier be guaranteed a spot in the Pioneer League? If not, what other leagues cold they join? Would Dayton (as payback) not want us in the Pioneer League?

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

Would Xavier be guaranteed a spot in the Pioneer League? If not, what other leagues cold they join? Would Dayton (as payback) not want us in the Pioneer League?

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I'm guessing they have a tentative go ahead from the Pioneer League before pursuing this much further. Or maybe Dayton decides to play nice in hope we someday ok them to the Big East. Really, due to the geography, aside from San Diego, the Pioneer is the perfect league to go with. As I understand all the other FCS leagues allow some if not full athletic scholarships.

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Originally Posted by JTG

Let's say X joins the Pioneer League and the league decides to have a championship game every year. Honestly, I don't know if they do or don't. That should generate some interest. Some on here think there will be no interest because it's non-scholarship football. My question would be then why do probably a hundred small schools have it? They just like to blow money, I doubt it. Is it ND or OSU ? No, but when X played D1 football when I was a student 68-72 it wasn't that level of football either. People still went to the games and enjoyed the experience. It's NOT going to mess up Basketball. It hasn't messed up Bball at Nova, or Butler or Dayton. All 3 Bball programs and many others are flourishing. It's not 1973, it's 50 years later, and the school is on much better financial footing.

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True that it wasn’t ND or OSU level football but I recall the 1973 28-28 tie with Dayton at Xavier stadium. Moeller grad, Greg Schwarber, kicked a 55-yard field goal to tie the game. Impressive even in South Bend or Columbus.

Impressive is kicking a FG to get the score to 28. That's pretty rare.

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Originally Posted by nickgyp

True that it wasn’t ND or OSU level football but I recall the 1973 28-28 tie with Dayton at Xavier stadium. Moeller grad, Greg Schwarber, kicked a 55-yard field goal to tie the game. Impressive even in South Bend or Columbus.

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I was there, I still have the ticket. I was so bummed when they dropped the program a few weeks later.

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Originally Posted by JTG

Marian University in Indy. 20 years ago it was practically a girls school. They have won 1 National Championship and played in another. Lots of guys, lots of success, and the school started a Med School a few years ago.
Mt St Joe actually was a girls school until they started football. Not familiar with details as I don't live in Cincy, but am told it's successful.

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I've never heard of Marion University. just sayin....

Does anyone happen to know the demographics of the XU student body by state?

I know that there are alot of local kids from OH, KY and Indiana but I'm wondering about other states as well. Have we seen a change in the mix of students over the years.

I'm asking because in my opinion playing football at the lowest level possible would certainly not increase awareness at all outside of the immediate Cincy area.

I've heard this is being considered to increase enrollment. If it is literally just to get 100 more males to play on the team, then I admit it would probably work to achieve that objective, but I still dont see WHY you would do it for that reason given the resource commitment necessary.

But if this is being done to drive overall enrollment, then it's DOA outside of the tri-state area....

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Originally Posted by MHettel

Does anyone happen to know the demographics of the XU student body by state?

I know that there are alot of local kids from OH, KY and Indiana but I'm wondering about other states as well. Have we seen a change in the mix of students over the years.

I'm asking because in my opinion playing football at the lowest level possible would certainly not increase awareness at all outside of the immediate Cincy area.

I've heard this is being considered to increase enrollment. If it is literally just to get 100 more males to play on the team, then I admit it would probably work to achieve that objective, but I still dont see WHY you would do it for that reason given the resource commitment necessary.

But if this is being done to drive overall enrollment, then it's DOA outside of the tri-state area....

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Because as it has been explained, many times by multiple people, the resource commitment would be minimal. I know that doesn't seem to be getting through to you, but it won’t nearly as taxing as what you’re projecting. Even Marian, the school that is so small you've never heard of it, is able to sustain it without any problems.

Look, if Xavier does this, then you of all people are going to love it!! As I recall you hated the idea of a cost of living stipend. You hated the NIL legislation, and you hated the Supreme Court's ruling in the Alston Case, and sided with the NCAA when they fought against the anti-trust lawsuits. You thought all of this would ruin college athletics. Well, these players won't even have scholarships!! They'll be paying tuition like everyone else!! It will be all about the love of the game, which is what college sports is really all about!!

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Originally Posted by xubrew

Because as it has been explained, many times by multiple people, the resource commitment would be minimal. I know that doesn't seem to be getting through to you, but it won’t nearly as taxing as what you’re projecting. Even Marian, the school that is so small you've never heard of it, is able to sustain it without any problems.

Look, if Xavier does this, then you of all people are going to love it!! As I recall you hated the idea of a cost of living stipend. You hated the NIL legislation, and you hated the Supreme Court's ruling in the Alston Case, and sided with the NCAA when they fought against the anti-trust lawsuits. You thought all of this would ruin college athletics. Well, these players won't even have scholarships!! They'll be paying tuition like everyone else!! It will be all about the love of the game, which is what college sports is really all about!!

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Please allow me to amplify your good post.

One easy way to look at this is that this idea would have never made it this far with Xavier's leadership if it didn't have merit and hold potential. We have some very sharp people running Victory Parkway, and they are backed up by a very strong BoT. You can argue that no one bats a thousand and things could go wrong. Frankly, I'll respond with bullshit on that, because this has been vetted and because the execution of it is in very good hands.

One other thing for those who are a little mangled up with the accounting issues: 501(c)(3) - X is a non-profit (chuckle, chuckle). If you end up seeing an accounting treatment that reflects revenues equalling expenses for the football program specifically, I wouldn't become overly concerned about it.

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Originally Posted by xubrew

Because as it has been explained, many times by multiple people, the resource commitment would be minimal. I know that doesn't seem to be getting through to you, but it won’t nearly as taxing as what you’re projecting. Even Marian, the school that is so small you've never heard of it, is able to sustain it without any problems.

Look, if Xavier does this, then you of all people are going to love it!! As I recall you hated the idea of a cost of living stipend. You hated the NIL legislation, and you hated the Supreme Court's ruling in the Alston Case, and sided with the NCAA when they fought against the anti-trust lawsuits. You thought all of this would ruin college athletics. Well, these players won't even have scholarships!! They'll be paying tuition like everyone else!! It will be all about the love of the game, which is what college sports is really all about!!

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Just because "its been explained many times by multiple people" doesnt mean I have to accept that. Nobody has actually EXPLAINED it at all. There are some people that dont think it will consume many resources or dont think it will be expensive. But they havent explained WHY. Even if 100 people dont "think" it will be that expensive, it doesnt change my mind one bit until I see some evidence. this should be approached as a business decision for the university. Showing mumbo jumbo accounting results that shows that a team spent "DOWN TO THE PENNY" the exact amount of money it brought in is actually just evidence that they DONT want you to see the actual P&L of the program.

The startup costs will be in the millions. I believe that once you get past that, the program MIGHT be able to operate at a small deficit yearly ( a few hundred thousand). If the team draws in incremental students in the form of players, then the incremental tuition (after associated costs) can be attributed to the program as well. I see an extremely limited student recruiting benefit outside of the very immediate local area.

If the startup costs were being covered by a donor that would only provide money if it's used for that purpose, then it does impact my concerns consdierably.

And, for the record.....1) I dont think I've ever commented on the idea of a athletic stipend. Thats actually an idea I WOULD endorse, as long as it's equally applied (all sports at ALL schools) and genuinely meant to cover cost of living an incidental stuff. I'm talking like 10K per year. 2) Yes, I hate the NIL rules. 3) I never mentioned or have commented on the Supreme Court case. I'm giving my opinion on these issues, and it has absolutely nothing to do with that case. My opinion would not change at all based on the outcome of that case or if it had not existed at all. I dont let court decisions define my opinions. 4) You forgot the immediate transfer rules. I hate that rule. 5) and, I guess we will have to keep our eye on the overall college sports landscape to see what the impact is. What I DO know is that Jay Wright and Roy Williams both retired and specifically cited some of these changes...

A separate post on speculating about a stadium and facilities. While I have no idea how practice time, etc. would be managed - I'm sure they can figure that out - I do have a "romantic" notion of having Corcoran Field reborn to some degree, albeit scaled appropriately (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corcoran_Stadium).

Parking would be an issue, but let a lot of attendees stroll across campus on their way to a game. A bona fide tailgate area could be established between the north end of the stadium and the Champions Center. It's a beautiful setting down there, looking back up at the traditional Academic Row.

More to the point and where the real benefits kick in: you can kill multiple birds with one capital project stone: imagine a nice stadium facility that can accommodate football, both soccer programs and lacrosse. Perhaps football isn't just about male recruitment and more activities in the fall. Maybe it can help lift improved recruiting for other key sports via a trifecta facilities play. Again, speculation on my part, but hopefully not a bad or crazy thought.

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Originally Posted by xudash

A separate post on speculating about a stadium and facilities. While I have no idea how practice time, etc. would be managed - I'm sure they can figure that out - I do have a "romantic" notion of having Corcoran Field reborn to some degree, albeit scaled appropriately (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corcoran_Stadium).

Parking would be an issue, but let a lot of attendees stroll across campus on their way to a game. A bona fide tailgate area could be established between the north end of the stadium and the Champions Center. It's a beautiful setting down there, looking back up at the traditional Academic Row.

More to the point and where the real benefits kick in: you can kill multiple birds with one capital project stone: imagine a nice stadium facility that can accommodate football, both soccer programs and lacrosse. Perhaps football isn't just about male recruitment and more activities in the fall. Maybe it can help lift improved recruiting for other key sports via a trifecta facilities play. Again, speculation on my part, but hopefully not a bad or crazy thought.

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Dash:

Driving past Victory Parkway and Dana, I always recall how that area was easily the prettiest part of Xavier's campus. The football stadium with the classic rise of the brick on the east side stands with the portals adorned by wrought iron bars. The schedule board outside the south side of the field. Thinking if Xavier ever brought back football, how cool it would be to have the same stadium configuration again even if it were on a smaller scale than the original 15, 000 seat original. The picturesque view of the academic buildings to the east. Tailgating as you suggest. Parking could be worked out with the campus strolls. I like the idea.
envision

IMO the most likely scenario would be for them to play in a local HS stadium, not an on-campus facility.

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Originally Posted by XUGRAD80

IMO the most likely scenario would be for them to play in a local HS stadium, not an on-campus facility.

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I don’t think that is the most likely scenario.

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Originally Posted by XUGRAD80

IMO the most likely scenario would be for them to play in a local HS stadium, not an on-campus facility.

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I don't know how many the under-construction Staubach stadium will hold, but it's just a stone's throw up Woodburn.

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Originally Posted by xudash

I don’t think that is the most likely scenario.

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Well, it’s the model that I’ve seen all of the other local colleges start out with. Not saying that it will be the permanent solution, but I do think that it will be what it starts out with. The costs involved in building even a small on campus facility are huge. If they aren’t really doing this for any other reason than to drive male enrollment, then there really is no need for an on campus facility right away. That can wait until there is enough of a fan base to make it needed. Seems silly to spend millions on a facility that won’t be needed more than a handful of times a year.

There are at least 4 decent sized and fairly new or updated HS stadiums close to the Xavier campus that could be used. One of them, Norwood HS’s Shea Stadium, hosted the Moeller-ST. X high school playoff game last evening with about 7-8,000 people in attendance. I’m sure it could host a Xavier U game with no problem.

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Originally Posted by nickgyp

Dash:

Driving past Victory Parkway and Dana, I always recall how that area was easily the prettiest part of Xavier's campus. The football stadium with the classic rise of the brick on the east side stands with the portals adorned by wrought iron bars. The schedule board outside the south side of the field. Thinking if Xavier ever brought back football, how cool it would be to have the same stadium configuration again even if it were on a smaller scale than the original 15, 000 seat original. The picturesque view of the academic buildings to the east. Tailgating as you suggest. Parking could be worked out with the campus strolls. I like the idea.
envision

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I’d love for that side of campus to get a major facelift. I’d love for Victory Parkway to be closed off to through traffic from Dana to Ledgewood to connect the campus, tear down the O’Connor, the armory and Schmit Field house. Use the “beach area” as well and build a 10K football field and more upper classman housing right there.

Alternatively, I’ve heard that a football stadium, again around 10K in size could be built were Cohen is, allowing parking at Cintas and Norwood Plaza. This area could also allow for housing to be built around the stadium overlooking the field. Butler has a similar set up.

Rent the new stadium to Moeller who is currently playing home games at Shea in Norwood.

PFL action yesterday, in San Diego, Butler kicker kicks 56 yard last second field goal for the win. Not too shabby for non-scholarship football.


https://twitter.com/NCAA_FCS/status/...mvOlHgSm314P_Q

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Originally Posted by nickgyp

PFL action yesterday, in San Diego, Butler kicker kicks 56 yard last second field goal for the win. Not too shabby for non-scholarship football.


https://twitter.com/NCAA_FCS/status/...mvOlHgSm314P_Q

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And 6 people were there to see it.

Have we not learned from the past? Too many athletic programs around the country struggle to keep athletic departments afloat with the high expenses of football. Undefeated since 1973! Let’s keep it that way.

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Originally Posted by Double Down

Have we not learned from the past? Too many athletic programs around the country struggle to keep athletic departments afloat with the high expenses of football. Undefeated since 1973! Let’s keep it that way.

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It's comparing apples and oranges. That was D1, this isn't. BTW that shirt is stupid.

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Originally Posted by JTG

It's comparing apples and oranges. That was D1, this isn't. BTW that shirt is stupid.

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I bet you're the life of the party.

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Originally Posted by JTG

It's comparing apples and oranges. That was D1, this isn't. BTW that shirt is stupid.

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This actually is D1, just a really awful version of it.

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Originally Posted by nickgyp

True that it wasn’t ND or OSU level football but I recall the 1973 28-28 tie with Dayton at Xavier stadium. Moeller grad, Greg Schwarber, kicked a 55-yard field goal to tie the game. Impressive even in South Bend or Columbus.

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Is Greg related to Kyle Schwarber??
They both hit bombs!!

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Originally Posted by Masterofreality

Is Greg related to Kyle Schwarber??
They both hit bombs!!

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I have no idea if they are related but the baseball player is from Middletown. The Butler kicker who kicked the 56 yarder this past weekend was noteworthy as was the 55 yard field goal kicked by a Centerville kicker breaking Mike Nugent’s school record.

None of this is to suggest that PFL football is on the level of Ohio State, Michigan or the like. Xavier basketball isn’t on the level of the N.B.A. But that doesn’t keep people from going to the games. Whether football is played before five or five thousands fans is only significant when considering revenues and costs. If Xavier can’t make the numbers work financially then it shouldn’t be done as cost prohibitive. (No one is calling for the discontinuation of a Xavier sport where fans are sparse such as tennis or swimming but again, the numbers need to work for football to be viable).

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Originally Posted by nickgyp

The Butler kicker who kicked the 56 yarder this past weekend was noteworthy as was the 55 yard field goal kicked by a Centerville kicker breaking Mike Nugent’s school record.

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Are you saying Mike Nugent went to Butler? I thought he went to Ohio State??

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Originally Posted by JTG

It's comparing apples and oranges. That was D1, this isn't. BTW that shirt is stupid.

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I'll wear that way before wearing the NIT shirt my wife bought me (and still haven't worn...don't tell my wife).

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Originally Posted by nickgyp

I have no idea if they are related but the baseball player is from Middletown. The Butler kicker who kicked the 56 yarder this past weekend was noteworthy as was the 55 yard field goal kicked by a Centerville kicker breaking Mike Nugent’s school record.

None of this is to suggest that PFL football is on the level of Ohio State, Michigan or the like. Xavier basketball isn’t on the level of the N.B.A. But that doesn’t keep people from going to the games. Whether football is played before five or five thousands fans is only significant when considering revenues and costs. If Xavier can’t make the numbers work financially then it shouldn’t be done as cost prohibitive. (No one is calling for the discontinuation of a Xavier sport where fans are sparse such as tennis or swimming but again, the numbers need to work for football to be viable).

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There are a ton of sports that exist at the college level where the financials deem it cost prohibitive. But there's other sports to pay for it. Basically, Xavier basketball would likely be somewhat supplementing football unless they get a fatcat or increased enrollment to pay for it.

It just seems like alot of work for little payoff. Football at X is never going to bring in enough to 1) pay for itself or 2) help supplement other sports. Might it bring in a bump in tuition? Maybe - but that doesn't seem all that significant in the grand scheme of things.

Again, seems like a D3 idea at a high level D1 basketball school.

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Originally Posted by nuts4xu

Are you saying Mike Nugent went to Butler? I thought he went to Ohio State??

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Pretty sure he meant Centerville.