Politics Thread

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12-08-2022, 10:57 AM
Xville

Quote:

Originally Posted by xubrew

Russia clearly won this game of chicken.

It's pretty clear to me that she was treated unfairly. Many in that situation aren't really even arrested, but just fined and deported, and the ones that are arrested are typically only locked up for a week or two and are then deported. She was used as a pawn, and it worked. They got what they wanted.

And to all those who say "Well, she shouldn't have had it in the first place"....OH REALLY!!?? YA THINK!!??

No one is disputing that. Or at least no one should be. But she was handled far more severely than what is typical, and it was done for a political reason.

Why should anyone in America give a crap? “She” should stay in Russia since all “she” does is bitch and whine about America. We seriously just let a “celebrity” free in exchange for the merchant of death. Are you effing kidding me? What planet am I on?
12-08-2022, 11:28 AM
xubrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xville

Why should anyone in America give a crap? “She” should stay in Russia since all “she” does is bitch and whine about America. We seriously just let a “celebrity” free in exchange for the merchant of death. Are you effing kidding me? What planet am I on?

I think America should "Give a Crap" whenever a citizen is being detained/punished in another country in a manner that's way more severe than normal because they are American. Saying she should stay in Russia since all she does is bitch about America is basically just saying you want her locked up, in Russia, because she bitched about America. Let me just say that I'd rather people not have that take. That's a far more Russian take than an American one.

I cared far less about the basketball players from UCLA that were arrested in China because they were essentially dealt with the same way as anyone else would have been. Not that I wasn't generally concerned for them, but I never thought they were being treated differently than anyone else have been that was in that situation.

In the case of Griner, she got nine years for something just about everyone else gets 2-4 weeks and a fine for. That's WAAY outside the normal parameters for that offense, and the only reason they did it was because of who she was. I also think one of the reasons they did it was because they knew it would be divisive within the US.

Now, having said that, I really don't know what the best course of action would have been. I don't know if this was the right thing to do or not. I know that Russia absolutely won this hand of poker, though.
12-08-2022, 11:35 AM
paulxu

Whelan's family was fine with the trade, while expressing frustration that no apparent movement is happening with their son.
Trevor Reed was exchanged for in April after 3 yeasr there, for a cocaine smuggling Russian pilot.
It seems Griner's fee was a arms dealer.
It's almost like there needs to be another really big person here for a trade to get Whelan out.
I hope they can come up with somebody.
12-08-2022, 11:37 AM
xubrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulxu

Whelan's family was fine with the trade, while expressing frustration that no apparent movement is happening with their son.
Trevor Reed was exchanged for in April after 3 yeasr there, for a cocaine smuggling Russian pilot.
It seems Griner's fee was a arms dealer.
It's almost like there needs to be another really big person here for a trade to get Whelan out.
I hope they can come up with somebody.

Could we offer to take Snowden off their hands??
12-08-2022, 11:43 AM
Xville

Quote:

Originally Posted by xubrew

I think America should "Give a Crap" whenever a citizen is being detained/punished in another country in a manner that's way more severe than normal because they are American. Saying she should stay in Russia since all she does is bitch about America is basically just saying you want her locked up, in Russia, because she bitched about America. Let me just say that I'd rather people not have that take. That's a far more Russian take than an American one.

I cared far less about the basketball players from UCLA that were arrested in China because they were essentially dealt with the same way as anyone else would have been. Not that I wasn't generally concerned for them, but I never thought they were being treated differently than anyone else have been that was in that situation.

In the case of Griner, she got nine years for something just about everyone else gets 2-4 weeks and a fine for. That's WAAY outside the normal parameters for that offense, and the only reason they did it was because of who she was. I also think one of the reasons they did it was because they knew it would be divisive within the US.

Now, having said that, I really don't know what the best course of action would have been. I don't know if this was the right thing to do or not. I know that Russia absolutely won this hand of poker, though.

She broke the law. If Russia wants to make an example of her or play games, fine. I don’t care about someone who consistently bitches about how she is treated in America and how awful the country is. F her. To trade her for a guy who literally helped kill Americans is ridiculous. Should have let her sit in prison for the duration of her sentence or continue to negotiate a different settlement.
12-08-2022, 11:50 AM
xubrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xville

She broke the law. I don’t care about someone who consistently bitches about how she is treated in America and how awful the country is. F her. To trade her for a guy who literally helped kill Americans is ridiculous. Should have let her sit in prison for the duration of her sentence or continue to negotiate a different settlement.

No one is claiming she didn't break the law, nor is anyone saying she shouldn't have been arrested and held responsible (at least I'm not). The rub is that the punishment she received was way outside the normal parameters, and the only reason she received it is because of who she was. I agree that it was a very uneven trade, and I don't know if I feel it was the right thing to do. I'm not sure I would have done it. What I disagree with is that if someone has been critical of America, then it shouldn't be a concern if they're treated unfairly in another country because they're American
12-08-2022, 11:59 AM
Strange Brew

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulxu

Whelan's family was fine with the trade, while expressing frustration that no apparent movement is happening with their son.
Trevor Reed was exchanged for in April after 3 yeasr there, for a cocaine smuggling Russian pilot.
It seems Griner's fee was a arms dealer.
It's almost like there needs to be another really big person here for a trade to get Whelan out.
I hope they can come up with somebody.

I did not read that Whelan's family is "fine" with the trade.

They were shocked and called it a catastrophe.
12-08-2022, 12:08 PM
Lamont Sanford

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulxu

Over the years, both of the major political parties have put up some less than stellar candidates for office.

The Dems have had some real losers for sure.

But you'll forgive me if I'm just completely baffled how, literally, hundreds of thousands of people have voted for Herschel Walker, and think I assume, that he is qualified to be a United States Senator.

Racist.
12-08-2022, 12:10 PM
Masterofreality

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulxu

Whelan's family was fine with the trade, while expressing frustration that no apparent movement is happening with their son.
Trevor Reed was exchanged for in April after 3 yeasr there, for a cocaine smuggling Russian pilot.
It seems Griner's fee was a arms dealer.
It's almost like there needs to be another really big person here for a trade to get Whelan out.
I hope they can come up with somebody.

Whelan’s family was absolutely NOT fine with the trade. Did you read their statement? They were “diplomatic” about it but NOT fine.
Stop gaslighting. This is the kind of stuff that makes nobody believe you or your side.
12-08-2022, 12:37 PM
paulxu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterofreality

Whelan’s family was absolutely NOT fine with the trade. Did you read their statement? They were “diplomatic” about it but NOT fine.
Stop gaslighting. This is the kind of stuff that makes nobody believe you or your side.

My statement:

Quote:

Whelan's family was fine with the trade, while expressing frustration that no apparent movement is happening with their son.

Sometimes I just wonder about how far you all go to score points. Below is a link to their whole statement.
Here is a sentence from that statement.
"There is no greater success than for a wrongful detainee to be freed & for them to go home. The Biden Admin made the right decision to bring Ms. Griner home, & to make the deal that was possible, rather than waiting for one that wasn't going to happen.”

I think they are happy for the Griner family, and continually frustrated about Whelan.
They said the Biden administration made the right decision, and I characterized that as being "fine."
One might suspect if they didn't feel it was "fine", that they didn't need to make that statement.
Why you feel like that is gaslighting is beyond me.

https://twitter.com/carder613/status...809346/photo/1