Streetcar Update on Development

He's spent about $500,000 renovating 40 units in the buildings, now available for either market-rate or subsidized tenants. He has at least twice that left to go.

Subsidized tenants? Huge mistake....HUGE. You want yuppies as your tenants. Yuppies want to live in a neighborhood with trendy bars and restaurants, within walking distance of places like Music Hall, and a short streetcar ride away from the riverfront. They don't want section 8 neighbors. That is completely counter to what you're trying to accomplish. You've invested alot of money hoping the neighborhood will "turn".......you want to drive the undesireable element someplace else.

I still don't get it...are there really enough people living downtown to make this thing work? What destinations exist in OTR right now?

If I'm downtown, there's nothing I can't get to without my two legs. This isn't Atlanta or NYC. I do not go more than 3-4 blocks on any given day when I'm at work.

What would I use it for?

If I come to a Reds game...I'm going to park and walk to the game. Am I really going to park, then get on the streetcar? No.

Just doesn't seem that we enough people living DT to take advantage of it.

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Originally Posted by sweet16

you want to drive the undesireable element someplace else.

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As long as they don't drive them to the Westside anymore...time for another area to take a hit.

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Originally Posted by drudy23

I still don't get it...are there really enough people living downtown to make this thing work? What destinations exist in OTR right now?
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If you continue to see the future vision of downtown and OTR as what there exists right now, you will never get it.

What existed in Lawrenceburg before the casino went in? What existed in West Chester 20 years ago?

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Originally Posted by drudy23

I still don't get it...are there really enough people living downtown to make this thing work? What destinations exist in OTR right now?

If I'm downtown, there's nothing I can't get to without my two legs. This isn't Atlanta or NYC. I do not go more than 3-4 blocks on any given day when I'm at work.

What would I use it for?

If I come to a Reds game...I'm going to park and walk to the game. Am I really going to park, then get on the streetcar? No.

Just doesn't seem that we enough people living DT to take advantage of it.

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Drudy, the streetcar is not being built for you and me. It's for people that live or work in downtown and Clifton and only in those areas. It's also for the property owners along the route, many of whom have friends in city government, or are on council themselves. You and I are only involved insomuch as our tax dollars will be taken by the city indirectly (funneled through the Feds) to fund construction and directly for the annual maintenance of this system. At some hypothetical point in the future we might see enough development to reverse the population exodus and increase the tax base, easing our burden somewhat, but we have to stick around for that.

The success of this project depends on development. The constant complaint I've seen from developers is that it is too difficult to build and rennovate in this city because of red tape. There is little common sense in our regulations and the process moves too slowly most times for development to be profitable, unless you have a friend in a power position.

Years ago Council and the Mayor promised to review these processes and make it easier to do business in Cincinnati. They even floated the idea of creating a one stop shop for permitting, zoning, etc. It never happened. Instead they came up with the streetcar. I hope it succeeds but I'll be very surprised if it does.

Either this is a transportation issue, in which case we need to revamp bus service, or it's a development issue, in which case we need to get rid of the obstacles for development. We'll likely see a bump from initial construction of the streetcar but in 5 years I expect we'll see about as much progress with private investment as we did 5 years after The Banks plan was first made public.

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Originally Posted by sweet16

He's spent about $500,000 renovating 40 units in the buildings, now available for either market-rate or subsidized tenants. He has at least twice that left to go.

Subsidized tenants? Huge mistake....HUGE. You want yuppies as your tenants. Yuppies want to live in a neighborhood with trendy bars and restaurants, within walking distance of places like Music Hall, and a short streetcar ride away from the riverfront. They don't want section 8 neighbors. That is completely counter to what you're trying to accomplish. You've invested alot of money hoping the neighborhood will "turn".......you want to drive the undesireable element someplace else.

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Don't be so paranoid. Not every subsidized tenant is "undesirable". 100% subsidized tenants in an area is undesirable.

Not to pick on your post specifically, but this is typical of a comment that frustrates me about Cincinnati. Here's a guy willing to take a gamble on an investment, and you've got people on the sidelines booing him, telling him he's making a huge mistake.

If you think it's such a huge mistake, jump in there and do it yourself. Otherwise, at least let him try.

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Originally Posted by blobfan

I expect we'll see about as much progress with private investment as we did 5 years after The Banks plan was first made public.

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Here's another one. People love to cling to past failures. The Banks is going up as we speak. The Moerlein Lager House is slated to open by August of 2011. Tenants have already signed leases for apartments to start in the spring of 2011. The renovation of Fountain Square was a tremendous success. Why is it that the people of Cincinnati seem to love failure so much?

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Originally Posted by Kahns Krazy

Don't be so paranoid. Not every subsidized tenant is "undesirable". 100% subsidized tenants in an area is undesirable.

Not to pick on your post specifically, but this is typical of a comment that frustrates me about Cincinnati. Here's a guy willing to take a gamble on an investment, and you've got people on the sidelines booing him, telling him he's making a huge mistake.

If you think it's such a huge mistake, jump in there and do it yourself. Otherwise, at least let him try.

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No, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said it was a mistake to invest in the neighborhood (in fact I've posted earleir in this thread that I think private investment will come to OTR based solely on the streetcar). I said it's a mistake to accept subsidized tenants. Why would you invest your money into rehabbing a property only to turn around and introduce a cancer back into your finished product? You want to see your property appreciate in value......that will never happen with section 8 in or near your property.

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Originally Posted by Kahns Krazy

Here's another one. People love to cling to past failures. The Banks is going up as we speak. The Moerlein Lager House is slated to open by August of 2011. Tenants have already signed leases for apartments to start in the spring of 2011. The renovation of Fountain Square was a tremendous success.

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Also other projects coming soon are Riverfront Park, the casino, and many many others

Downtown 2009 report:
-$116 million in completed construction and renovation project with another $1.6 billion in projects currently in progress
-More than 445,000 square feet of office expansions, renewals and relocations in 2009
-30 new retail/restaurant/entertainment establishments opened in the central business district
-140 single family homes were sold, keeping population growth consistent with projections
-$59 million economic impact of total room nights marked a record setting year for hotels
The Main Library, Cincinnati Museum Center, Krohn Conservatory and Fountain Square all posted record attendance years
-Overall crime rate for the central business district/riverfront was down double digits in Part 1 and Part 2 offenses over the past decade
-DCI’s 3rd annual pedestrian count study showed a continued increase during peak weekday times (11am to 2pm), and a total increase of 20% in pedestrians during the evening hours
-A partnership with the Hamilton County Department of Pretrial Services and the County Jail, University Hospital, Summit Behavioral Healthcare and others to identified the top 16 high risk panhandlers; placing 3 of the 16 cases in permanent housing to date

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_U72QTDcNpU...ion+Growth.JPG

http://www.urbancincy.com/2010/05/do...ing-recession/


Here is a thread discussing the current state of downtown Cincinnati. Some interesting points are made
http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/inde...ic,1333.0.html

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Originally Posted by Kahns Krazy

If you continue to see the future vision of downtown and OTR as what there exists right now, you will never get it.

What existed in Lawrenceburg before the casino went in? What existed in West Chester 20 years ago?

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What exists in Lawrenceburg now? How many of us have spent a day in Lawrenceburg not casino related?

I just don't see Cincinnati as having enough downtown residents to make this thing work. Who's going to ride the thing?

And for downtown workers? Let's suppose I work at the Fifth Third Building...where would I go where I'd need to take a streetcar? There are plenty of dining, shopping, and entertainment options within 4-5 blocks in any direction that I can walk to. Why would you venture to Clifton to go shopping or to eat lunch if you work downtown?

Tell me why the only reason you see cabs in this town is in front of hotels? Go downtown and try to flag a cab without calling for one first. Not very easy.

Why is that? Because you can get everywhere on foot....they're not necessary.