No CBI for UC

[pimpinthebox]

http://www.gazellegroup.com/events/cbi/cbi09_bracket.pdf
Looks like Mick delivered on his promise. Moron.

Richmond is in there versus St. John's. I'll be glued to the tube.

[waggy]

Looks like Mick delivered on his promise. Moron.

Richmond is in there versus St. John's. I'll be glued to the tube.

How do you know Mick turned them down? Unless someone can prove to me otherwise I'm going under the assumption they weren't invited.

[LutherRackleyRulez]

Here's CollegeInsider.com 2009 field....


Tuesday March 17
Rider (19-12) @ Liberty (22-11)
Kent State (19-14) @ Oakland (22-12)

Wednesday March 18
The Citadel (20-12) @ Old Dominion (21-10)
Mount St. Mary’s (19-13) @ James Madison (19-14)
Austin Peay (19-13) @ Bradley (18-14)
Belmont (19-12) @ Evansville (17-13)
Portland (19-12) @ Pacific (19-12)
Drake (17-15) @ Idaho (16-15)


http://www.collegeinsider.com/tournament/schedule.html

[wkrq59]

How do you know Mick turned them down? Unless someone can prove to me otherwise I'm going under the assumption they weren't invited.
Waggy, earlier this week after being upended by DePaul, Cronin said UC would only accept an NIT bid. His players I am told were miffed beyond belief. The only way I know this is from contact with some of the players friends. Bill Koch would never write that the UC players are unhappy or that they have reason to be. This has frustrated the players so much that many of them are thinking about bolting. :D

[X-band '01]

Richmond is in there versus St. John's. I'll be glued to the tube.

That's assuming you have HDNet as well as the local access channels required to watch the CBI.

[coasterville95]

Waggy, earlier this week after being upended by DePaul, Cronin said UC would only accept an NIT bid. His players I am told were miffed beyond belief. The only way I know this is from contact with some of the players friends. Bill Koch would never write that the UC players are unhappy or that they have reason to be. This has frustrated the players so much that many of them are thinking about bolting. :D

In a perverse kind of way:

Excellent! Just what UC needs right now, a wholesale player rebellion/exodus and having to start all over yet again!

[bobbyboucher]

I don't know why a team would ever turn down a bid to a event. I'm sure they are upset and don't have a ton of desire but a chance at some extra practice time and more face time with your players seems like a no brainer to me. I would be pissed if I was a fan of a team who turned down a chance to play.

[The Artist]

With where UC is right now, it is beyond stupid for them to turn down the opportunity to play more games.

[DC Muskie]

See I'm on the opposite end of this argument and I really don't understand why people think extending a crappy season will somehow make you better the following season.

Id UC somehow going to be better next season because they beat Old Dominion and Rider in some tournament that is two levels down from the NCAA? I don't.

If UC players are pissed and are considering bolting because they won't have a chance to compete in some made up tournament, well then I wish them luck trying to succeed in life in general because they all have an uphill battle.

[bobbyboucher]

DC,
I agree that the more than likely the extra games will not make a huge difference in how a team (UC) plays next season but I think the opportunity to play and to be in the "season" atmosphere is important. It seems to me coaches are always complaining that they do not get enough "time" with their teams and this is an example where they could have been able to practice, play, meet with their team so to turn it down seems like an odd choice.

[DC Muskie]

DC,
I agree that the more than likely the extra games will not make a huge difference in how a team (UC) plays next season but I think the opportunity to play and to be in the "season" atmosphere is important. It seems to me coaches are always complaining that they do not get enough "time" with their teams and this is an example where they could have been able to practice, play, meet with their team so to turn it down seems like an odd choice.

Yeah, but their goal was probably to be in the Dance. And when that doesn't happen playing in the DC Muskie Invitational is just an excuse to prolong the fact that you didn't meet your goal.

You can have 400 tournaments, but only one matters. Just because you want to smell popcorn, and have your name announced over a PA system and act like these games mean anything is ridiculous in my mind.

If "time" is the reason for continuing in these farce tournaments, maybe time should be better spent trying to come up with a gameplan to beat a team that didn't win one conference game in the conference tournament.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but the overall idea that kids deserve the postseason is just the wrong message to send out. It's like giving out trophies to everyone in little league. I get the point, but what point do you stop and say "enough!" you had your chance and didn't succeed. Now go home and watch other people who did!

[Masterofreality]

Right on, DC.

Why extend the agony? Maybe the players have had enough of little mickey and little mickey is sick of them. If those guys even acted like they still wanted to play, then fine, but with guys like Gates sleepwalking through a game that they absolutely had to have against a horriffic DePuke team, the indication is that the best place for Cronin and the uc players is far far away from each other for now.

That being said, I love the comatose state of the Borecats.

[The Artist]

I think it's off base to say playing in extra games would not help a young team like UC for next season. Not only do they get the extra games, but extra practices as well. This is just like if someone were to reject a bid to a lower-level bowl game. Even though it may not have been your goal, you take it.

Will it definitely help? No. Could it hurt? Also, no.

[bobbyboucher]

DC,

I always enjoy your insight so not taken as a rant at all. The fact that their are 4 post season tournamnents is a joke. There should be the NCAA and the NIT. I would keep the NIT because it has some history, and I like the setup with giving teams who win the regular season but lose in the conference tournament a chance to go to the post-season. Weber St. is a great example of this. Overall I guess my thoughts are that if given the option of playing (as stupid and worthless as the CBI,CIT are) you should take it.

[ATL Muskie]

DC,

I always enjoy your insight so not taken as a rant at all. The fact that their are 4 post season tournamnents is a joke. There should be the NCAA and the NIT. I would keep the NIT because it has some history, and I like the setup with giving teams who win the regular season but lose in the conference tournament a chance to go to the post-season. Weber St. is a great example of this. Overall I guess my thoughts are that if given the option of playing (as stupid and worthless as the CBI,CIT are) you should take it.

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1598/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1598R-153443.jpg

[Jumpy]

I agree with DC. There comes a point where playing in these upstart tourneys hurts more than it helps. UC was, and plans to return to, a nationally elite team. Accepting bids to these tournaments does nothing to promote your team on a national level, especially if you don't win. What will you say to a recruit when the topic of post season play comes up?

"Yeah, we played hard in the CBI this year, but lost to a tough Idaho team. If you come to our school, we can hopefully set our sights on the NIT."

Put an end to the misery that was this season.

[DC Muskie]

I think it's off base to say playing in extra games would not help a young team like UC for next season. Not only do they get the extra games, but extra practices as well. This is just like if someone were to reject a bid to a lower-level bowl game. Even though it may not have been your goal, you take it.

Will it definitely help? No. Could it hurt? Also, no.

If their goal was to make the NIT, then make the NIT. If your goal was to make the Dance and you didn't, why bother to continue to play when you argue that it couldn't neccessarily help or hurt you?

Things change for many programs over the course of the summer and fall. Players leave, coaches leave, all of that. How will playing Rider in March at a 5/3 Arena help a young team? Do you think Yancey Gates will suddenly wake up and decide to play?

Look at South Carolina. They live in the NIT. And every year people say it will help them springboard to the dance, and what did they do...they were back to back NIT champs. Awesome. Seriously, if being NIT champs is your goal, then bravo. But a program like UC, it recruits people to go to the Dance, and have success in the Dance.

I mean if I were the coach of UC, and I didn't make the Dance, I'd close up shop and figure out how to get there next season. I don't want to recruit CBI players to help me get to the Dance. I rather kids start working out and have the coaches hit the road to recruit players to make the Dance then try to justify to people the worthiness of playing in DCMI.

[The Artist]

If their goal was to make the NIT, then make the NIT. If your goal was to make the Dance and you didn't, why bother to continue to play when you argue that it couldn't neccessarily help or hurt you?

Things change for many programs over the course of the summer and fall. Players leave, coaches leave, all of that. How will playing Rider in March at a 5/3 Arena help a young team? Do you think Yancey Gates will suddenly wake up and decide to play?

Look at South Carolina. They live in the NIT. And every year people say it will help them springboard to the dance, and what did they do...they were back to back NIT champs. Awesome. Seriously, if being NIT champs is your goal, then bravo. But a program like UC, it recruits people to go to the Dance, and have success in the Dance.

I mean if I were the coach of UC, and I didn't make the Dance, I'd close up shop and figure out how to get there next season. I don't want to recruit CBI players to help me get to the Dance. I rather kids start working out and have the coaches hit the road to recruit players to make the Dance then try to justify to people the worthiness of playing in DCMI.

If you can't see that playing in more games and having more practices can help your team, then I can't help you. UC should have declined an invitation to the big east tournament. I mean, they obviously weren't going to win it, why not get the kids in the weight room and get the coaches on the recruiting trail!?

You have given several points as to why it will not help them. You are exagerrating with the Yancy Gates thing, I hope you realize that I'm not saying the CBI will turn anybody into a star.

However, I find it very hard to believe that you can't find any way in which playing in the CBI could help UC. I, on the other hand, can't find any way in which playing in the CBI could hurt UC.

If I had to guess, I would say that every college bball player's favorite thing is to play basketball. Here's coach Mick to a recruit:

"Yeah, we had to opportunity to play some more games, which I know college basketball players love doing, but we decided not to."

[DC Muskie]

What a flawed arugment you make Artist.

So The Big East tournament is the same as some made up torunament that has only existed for year? Just because it would have been difficult for UC to win it's conference tournament it shouldn't play, because it's about playing basketball, no matter what the outcome?

Huh?

Look, all I'm saying, and it really can't be disputed, one season doesn't translate upward to next season simply because you played more games. The season, the 30 some odd games you have scheduled to play and based on those results, determine whether you get to play more to reach your goal.

Maybe Mick wants a CBI or NIT program. That's fine with me. Never turn it down, because kids should be rewarded for their desire to play, not for the actually rewards of playing well.

'Yeah we had the opportunity to play more, amazing since we didn't achieve any the goals we set out, and we decided to accept the invitation to play, since playing is the reason we have a program here."

Thank God I don't support a program that thinks like that.

[coasterville95]

There's a DC Muskie Invitational? Cool, who is in the field for that one, and more importantly how much is the DCMI going to enhance DC Muskie's net worth?

I think the important thing to remember here is the other two tourneys are pay-to-play where you pay great sums of money to play games on channels like HD Net.. Who here has even heard of HD Net?

You might get a small article in your local paper but thats about it. Sure the college sports enthusiasts may look at the final score to see who won, but will quickly forget about it. So you are playing for no exposure, which equates to no recruitment benefit. (Let's face is the Top 100 high school basketball players aren't going to be watching CBI, CI, or DCMI games thinking "THAT's where I want to spend four years!")

I'm actually siding with Mick on this one, it has been clear for the past month he has a team that would rather be checking out the latest releases for their Playstation 3's than being a Bearcat basketball player. The school tried the CBI last year, so they know better than we the fans do about the costs vs. benefits of playing in the CBI, particularly taking a first round exit in the CBI.

If it's truly more court and practice time they need, schedule a Red/Black game in 5/3 Arena.

[Xman95]

Yeah, but their goal was probably to be in the Dance. And when that doesn't happen playing in the DC Muskie Invitational is just an excuse to prolong the fact that you didn't meet your goal.

I can think of years when our goal was to be in the Dance but we didn't get in. So we went to the NIT. Why? We didn't meet our goal and playing in the NIT was just prolonging the failure that was X's season. Right?

I have no problems with players wanting to keep playing. Do I think there are too many postseason tourneys? Probably. But, being that they are in place, if my team were offered a spot I would accept it (or at least let my players decide). Some kids just like to get on the floor and compete. Sure, teams like UC couldn't do it at the highest level this year, but why not let them keep playing - assuming the players want to - if the offer is there?

[The Artist]

What a flawed arugment you make Artist.

So The Big East tournament is the same as some made up torunament that has only existed for year? Just because it would have been difficult for UC to win it's conference tournament it shouldn't play, because it's about playing basketball, no matter what the outcome?

Huh?

Look, all I'm saying, and it really can't be disputed, one season doesn't translate upward to next season simply because you played more games. The season, the 30 some odd games you have scheduled to play and based on those results, determine whether you get to play more to reach your goal.

Maybe Mick wants a CBI or NIT program. That's fine with me. Never turn it down, because kids should be rewarded for their desire to play, not for the actually rewards of playing well.

'Yeah we had the opportunity to play more, amazing since we didn't achieve any the goals we set out, and we decided to accept the invitation to play, since playing is the reason we have a program here."

Thank God I don't support a program that thinks like that.

The part in bold wasn't my argument, so go back and read it. Your point is that it's better to not play games than play games, and you are wrong. They are not in the CBI, so they are worse than the CBI.

If Xavier ever didn't except an invitation to play basketball games, I would be irate.

Another one of your midmajor arguments.

Here's another for you. Since Cincinatti has long term goals of eventually getting a top 8 seed in the big east tournament, they should not accept any invitation to play in it when they are not a top 8 seed.

Let me tell you, you are brilliant. If I were Mick, I'd rather have a CBI program (which in DC Muskie world you have by accepting an invitation once) than a program that doesn't play basketball (you're argument, not mine - since they chose to do it this year, that's how it is).

All my argument is is that one season CAN translate to upward movement the next season if you play more games and practice more. Feel free to ignore it to try to win the argument, it shows your weakness, so I'll accept it as a concession.

One more question. Ohio State's goal each year in football is to win the big ten. Let's say they finish third next year. I assume that you would be upset if they accepted a bid to the Outback Bowl because they don't want to be known as a Outback Bowl program? Again, brilliant. How you haven't been contacted yet to be a consultant for some athletic department is beyond me.

I'm out for the day. Enjoy the discussion.

[Xman95]

By the way, the following was taken from the press release when it was announced James Posey would be inducted into the Xavier Hall of Fame:

Posey earned a long list of honors as a senior, including All-American honors (collegeinsider.com), First Team All-District (NABC) and First Team All-Atlantic 10 Conference in addition to the A-10 Defensive Player of the Year Award. Although he was disappointed not to make the NCAA Tournament, Posey helped XU reach the NIT Semifinals and finish third overall.

First, should they have turned down the NIT? The goal was to make it to the NCAA Tourney, so why continue the misery of a failed season? Second, after getting beat in the Final 4 of the NIT, why did they even bother playing the 3rd/4th place game? They should have gone home and forfeited. If other teams want to play for 3rd in the NIT, let them. X shouldn't lower itself to playing in a hack tournament and definitely shouldn't be forced to do something as painful as play for 3rd in such a sham of a tourney.

Or does the "NCAA's or nothing" approach only apply when X isn't involved?

[DC Muskie]

There's a DC Muskie Invitational? Cool, who is in the field for that one, and more importantly how much is the DCMI going to enhance DC Muskie's net worth?

No one would come to the DCMI. Even though I would invite about a million people, everyone of them would decline. Arizona no doubt would respond that they were washing their hair that month.

[DC Muskie]

I can think of years when our goal was to be in the Dance but we didn't get in. So we went to the NIT. Why? We didn't meet our goal and playing in the NIT was just prolonging the failure that was X's season. Right?

I have no problems with players wanting to keep playing. Do I think there are too many postseason tourneys? Probably. But, being that they are in place, if my team were offered a spot I would accept it (or at least let my players decide). Some kids just like to get on the floor and compete. Sure, teams like UC couldn't do it at the highest level this year, but why not let them keep playing - assuming the players want to - if the offer is there?

Look there are many programs who hang banners for NIT appearances and finishing over .500. That's great if you want a program who is proud of .500 finishes and NIT trips.

I think the NIT is perfect for teams in MAAC or MEAC, or any conference with a M and a C in it where teams don't get multiple bids. The NIT is a beautiful thing for those programs. But the idea to let kids continue to play, because "Hey, they like to play and they should be able to..." is really a silly argument. Sometimes kids don't want to play defense, or make foul foul shots, or run the offense. I guess we should let them play, because hey some people have come up with a tournament they can play in and get their named called out over a PA system.

And I wasn't really happy with that Final Four appearance. Thanks for reminding me of how we have a senior backcourt, a first round draft pick and won 20 games but couldn't get into the dance. But hey we played at Madison Square Garden....AWESOME!

[DC Muskie]

The part in bold wasn't my argument, so go back and read it. Your point is that it's better to not play games than play games, and you are wrong. They are not in the CBI, so they are worse than the CBI.

Okay, let me get this straight...You think kids should play all the games they want, and tried to tie in the conference tournament, which is actually apart of a team's schedule, to make that point, and I am wrong. Of course!



If Xavier ever didn't except an invitation to play basketball games, I would be irate

Really? Seriously you'd be irate if Xavier decided not to play in the DCMI. Thanks for the support! Next season, I'm going to invite them. Right after we cut down the nets in April 2010, I'm inviting Xavier to the DCMI and they better not turn it down, because hey, it's an opportunity to play! You better keep your word about being irate, I need all the support I can get.



Here's another for you. Since Cincinatti has long term goals of eventually getting a top 8 seed in the big east tournament, they should not accept any invitation to play in it when they are not a top 8 seed.

You realize there is only one NCAA Division I sanctioned tournament right? The rest are just made up consolation gifts, like when you got voted "Prettiest Smile" in high school. But you seem to harp on the idea that the BE tournament is the same as the "Totally Awesome College Basketball Tournament sponsored by Jack in the Box!" Let's put together a tournament in your backyard. We could invite UC, LaSalle, San Fransisco, and Loyola, MD. Your mom could make the t-shirts, your uncles could ref the games and you can announce the names of the players. There, kids get to continue to play, just like the BE tournament!


Let me tell you, you are brilliant.

Thank you!


If I were Mick, I'd rather have a CBI program (which in DC Muskie world you have by accepting an invitation once) than a program that doesn't play basketball (you're argument, not mine - since they chose to do it this year, that's how it is)

The CBI gets sloppy thirds. Do you like to be the guy, after the guy, who came after the guy? Sorry, I'd rather pass then catch some tropical VD that makes you pee blue urine.


All my argument is is that one season CAN translate to upward movement the next season if you play more games and practice more. Feel free to ignore it to try to win the argument, it shows your weakness, so I'll accept it as a concession.

I'm not ignoring that argument, I'm disagreeing with you. But please don't let me stand in your way of flexing your biceps. I must say, you have been working out.




One more question. Ohio State's goal each year in football is to win the big ten. Let's say they finish third next year. I assume that you would be upset if they accepted a bid to the Outback Bowl because they don't want to be known as a Outback Bowl program? Again, brilliant. How you haven't been contacted yet to be a consultant for some athletic department is beyond me.

Again, another flawed argument. You like to take a simple premise and then throw poo in every direction to try and pull if off as art. College football is different then college basketball, simply because college football bowls are all completely made up events. The Outback Bowl is not a sanctioned NCAA event, and yeah, I'm never really excited when OSU gets to play South Carolina in the Outback Bowl, just like I would be disinterested in Xavier playing South Carolina in South Carolina Invitational.


How you haven't been contacted yet to be a consultant for some athletic department is beyond me.

Once that happens I'm hiring you. You and we are going to do some serious damage having all our students playing in every competition we can get our hands on. Just think of all the places and games our kids are going to be in! We'll be soooo popular!

[DC Muskie]

Second, after getting beat in the Final 4 of the NIT, why did they even bother playing the 3rd/4th place game? They should have gone home and forfeited. If other teams want to play for 3rd in the NIT, let them. X shouldn't lower itself to playing in a hack tournament and definitely shouldn't be forced to do something as painful as play for 3rd in such a sham of a tourney.

You and my six year old nephew are/were the only people ever interested in the Third Place NIT game.

This is such a weird argument to have with people. Just keep playing for the sake of playing? I got to come up with a tournament next year. And that tournament needs to have a 3rd place game, so Patrick and XMan 95 will come out and watch!

[Xman95]

You and my six year old nephew are/were the only people ever interested in the Third Place NIT game.

This is such a weird argument to have with people. Just keep playing for the sake of playing? I got to come up with a tournament next year. And that tournament needs to have a 3rd place game, so Patrick and XMan 95 will come out and watch!

First of all, I did watch the NIT games that I could because I'm a Xavier fan and my team was playing. And even if it wasn't Xavier in the game I still might have watched because I enjoy college basketball.

Second, my point is not that teams should strive to play for 3rd in the NIT. But you are claiming that if someone wants to be an NIT team, then they should play in the NIT. If UC wants to be a CBI team, then play in the CBI. Well, Xavier played in the NIT and actually continued playing in the NIT after they lost a game. So, by your rationale, Xavier is an NIT program. Apparently they wanted to be an NIT school so they accepted that bid.

Face it, DC, you're wrong on this one. Just because a team accepts a bid to a lesser tournament doesn't necessarily mean it's a lesser program. Perhaps they weren't as good for that season, but teams have down years.

A couple years ago Ohio State was in the championship game. This year they're back in the Dance with a young team. That can't be possible because, according to DC, they are an NIT program. They have to be...they were in the NIT last year. Someone please tell the NCAA that the Buckeyes have to forfeit.

[DC Muskie]

First of all, I did watch the NIT games that I could because I'm a Xavier fan and my team was playing. And even if it wasn't Xavier in the game I still might have watched because I enjoy college basketball.

Second, my point is not that teams should strive to play for 3rd in the NIT. But you are claiming that if someone wants to be an NIT team, then they should play in the NIT. If UC wants to be a CBI team, then play in the CBI. Well, Xavier played in the NIT and actually continued playing in the NIT after they lost a game. So, by your rationale, Xavier is an NIT program. Apparently they wanted to be an NIT school so they accepted that bid.

Face it, DC, you're wrong on this one. Just because a team accepts a bid to a lesser tournament doesn't necessarily mean it's a lesser program. Perhaps they weren't as good for that season, but teams have down years.

A couple years ago Ohio State was in the championship game. This year they're back in the Dance with a young team. That can't be possible because, according to DC, they are an NIT program. They have to be...they were in the NIT last year. Someone please tell the NCAA that the Buckeyes have to forfeit.


You and artist crack me up. Plenty of agree agree with my opinion and of course I'm wrong. Look back at the thread.

UC doesn't want to be a CBI team. Therefore, they didn't play in the CBI. I happen to agree as do others, that when you lay out expectations of the season, you don't accpet a bid to the CBI because it happens to exist. I really don't understand why that's hard to understand or get all pissed off about.

I mean really, we brag about NCAA tournament appearances. Does any program brag about the number of times they have gone to the NIT or CBI or the CIT or DCMI? No, they make general claims of "post season appearances." Do you think these programs should promote the number of times they play in these lesser tournaments? Maybe they should, who knows.

You accept bids to the NIT then you are an NIT program. I don't consider Xavier an NIT program and we moved beyond being an NIT program. Do you agree with that? Or are you happy whenever they roll out the ball and the boys in blue and white take the court, no matter what they are playing in? 10th place for the CBI or soemthing? That's where you and I disagree.

The season has to mean something right? UMass and OSU played in the NIT last year. OSU is now an 8th seed, and UMass changed coaches and bombed. Do you somehow think that playing in the NIT, many games at home, somehow helped OSU this season become an 8 seed? Or do you think that playing better in the Big Ten the following season helped more?

I guess for me it's a matter of taste. I want Xavier to be an NCAA tournament team. Playing Penn St at the Cintas for the NIT is not something that gets me going.

[Xman95]

I guess for me it's a matter of taste. I want Xavier to be an NCAA tournament team. Playing Penn St at the Cintas for the NIT is not something that gets me going.

So you are saying that Xavier should have turned down the NIT in '94, '99 and 2000. X was wrong for playing in that tournament because it meant they wanted to be an NIT program, correct?

Personally, I don't agree. If we were an NIT program in 2000, it's hard to imagine that four years later we were in the Elite 8...and again four years after that.

I agree that if the players and coaches of a team feel that the NCAA was their goal and, because they missed it, they don't want play in the smaller tournaments, that's fine with me. But just because a team goes to the NIT or CBI doesn't mean it's an NIT or CBI program. That's my point.

[MADXSTER]

If Xavier was playing a scrimmage in June against St Patties of York grade school, I'd be there.

[XU 87]

Waggy, earlier this week after being upended by DePaul, Cronin said UC would only accept an NIT bid. His players I am told were miffed beyond belief. The only way I know this is from contact with some of the players friends. Bill Koch would never write that the UC players are unhappy or that they have reason to be. This has frustrated the players so much that many of them are thinking about bolting. :D

I can just see the interview.

"Why did you leave UC?"

"Because Cronin refused an invitation to the CBI."

"What's the CBI"?

"It's a tournament for teams that aren't good enough to play either in the NCAA or the NIT. I really thought we were the 98th best team in the country and wanted to show that to the world."

[DC Muskie]

So you are saying that Xavier should have turned down the NIT in '94, '99 and 2000. X was wrong for playing in that tournament because it meant they wanted to be an NIT program, correct?

In 99 and 2000 sure. In 94 we were in the MCC, it was difficult to get into the Dance then. I'm not sure why it is great to be in the NIT. Does anybody here brag about our third place finish in 1999? We claim the 58 championship because it meant something. What exactly has the NIT meant for the last 30 years? The CBI is a tournament that features 16 teams. So we have a tournament of 65, 32 and 16. You try and be a top 25 team, a conference championship team and an NCAA team. If you play in the NIT more times then not, you are an NIT team.


Personally, I don't agree. If we were an NIT program in 2000, it's hard to imagine that four years later we were in the Elite 8...and again four years after that.

See I think moving into a better conference and building better facilities and hiring better coaches and winning 20 games a season and graduating players and putting guys into the NBA and having a National Player of the Year have more to do with it then playing in the NIT back to back years. We haven't played there in eight years. Are you telling me that next year you'll be fine with a NIT appearance? Two years from now. Ever? Could you say the same thing eight years ago?


I agree that if the players and coaches of a team feel that the NCAA was their goal and, because they missed it, they don't want play in the smaller tournaments, that's fine with me. But just because a team goes to the NIT or CBI doesn't mean it's an NIT or CBI program. That's my point.

And all I'm saying is you start accepting those bids on a regular basis and that's what you are known for. No one in Columbus is walking around bragging about their NIT championship last season. Hell Butler even said as he walked off the court something to the effect that's what happens when a NCAA tournament team plays in this conference.

We turned down awards we didn't like that we felt didn't define us. Turn down a CBI or NIT invite is fine with me.

[waggy]

The NIT is fine if for some reason the team has a bad year. The program brings in some revenue, and it's a banner that can be hung that says something positive about the program. You will have done well to have won it, and the experience for the team can be very positive. That doesn't mean you are defined by it, unless it continues.

[XU 87]

The Xavier/Princeton NIT game was one of the loudest and best Xavier games that I have ever watched.

[DC Muskie]

The Xavier/Princeton NIT game was one of the loudest and best Xavier games that I have ever watched.

How big is your list? I hope it's huge...like one of the best 200 Xavier games I have ever watched.

[chico]

The Xavier/Princeton NIT game was one of the loudest and best Xavier games that I have ever watched.

I agree if you're only talking about the last 14 minutes or so. The first half was ugly.

[DC Muskie]

The first half was ugly.

You want to talk about ugly, I went to the Xavier/Princeton game at Princeton a few years ago and that was downright one of the worst Xavier games I had ever seen.

[GoMuskies]

How big is your list? I hope it's huge...like one of the best 200 Xavier games I have ever watched.

I've only seen Xavier's students storm the court twice. That was one time.

[bobbyboucher]

You want to talk about ugly, I went to the Xavier/Princeton game at Princeton a few years ago and that was downright one of the worst Xavier games I had ever seen.

That was the game where D West and Lionel almost came to blows. Also the 1st game with the black reebok uniforms which then beat UC @ the shoe the next week. Jadwin is a awful gym!

[DC Muskie]

I've only seen Xavier's students storm the court twice. That was one time.


NIT! NIT! NIT!

I stormed the court my senior year after the last home game where we beat GW. Is that the other time?

[GoMuskies]

I don't remember that. You must have been out there by yourself. I thought Dayton was our last home game senior year ('98).

[Masterofreality]

I stormed the court my senior year after the last home game where we beat GW. Is that the other time?

DC tried to individually storm the court after our win in the Palestra last month, but the upper deck railing stopped him.

He then stormed an area pub. No chicks approached him. Probably because an old fart like me was beside him.

[DC Muskie]

I don't remember that. You must have been out there by yourself. I thought Dayton was our last home game senior year ('98).

I thought it was GW. And there were a few of us. I high fived TJ.

It reminds me once of how we let our friend storm the court by himself once. We all said we'd rush, I forget which game, but at the end, it was just him. Didn't get very far.

[DC Muskie]

He then stormed an area pub. No chicks approached him. Probably because an old fart like me was beside him.


I'm still certain those girls next to us were 16.