TJ follows Jr to Seattle

[gladdenguy]

You know, I'll admit, I liked TJ Houshmanzadeh and thought he was a great football player. I don't want to pay him what he got from Seattle.
However, we do absolutely nothing in free agency.
Where has that gotten us?? 19 years and 1 playoff loss.
Ugghhhh. Its so frustrating.
Crickets down at Paul Brown. I hate this crap.
I will always care. Yes, I'm an idiot but I just love the Bengals.
Please, Ray Lewis, Matt Birk, Derrick Ward, and Cedric Benson...sign with the Bengals.

[XU 87]

I heard that the Bengals were willling to pay him the most. That sort of tells me how little he wanted to play for this lousy orgaization.

[THRILLHOUSE]

For the amount of money Seattle is signing him for, I'm kinda glad he is gone. If we can get Lavernius Coles for a cheaper price then free agency wont be a total bust. But lets be honest, if the offensive line doesn't improve it doesn't matter who is at WR.

[gladdenguy]

Well, if that was the case, why wasn't the deal done before free agency started.
He was kind of skeptical of starting over in a new city and learning a new system.
I just don't understand this organiization sometimes.
Don't get me wrong, I would rather have a center, another tackle and some defensive line help before TJ, but geez.
I guess one positive is we didn't tag Benson, who would be getting around 9 million and as of right now.....can't find a job other than backing up Steve Slaton in Houston.

[gladdenguy]

For the amount of money Seattle is signing him for, I'm kinda glad he is gone. If we can get Lavernius Coles for a cheaper price then free agency wont be a total bust. But lets be honest, if the offensive line doesn't improve it doesn't matter who is at WR.

I agree with you. But, we probably could have signed him for much cheaper if the deal was done months ago.
Like you said, we do need offensive linemen and right now we just sit here with our thumbs up our butts.

[Stonebreaker]

The problem is that people don't want to play for the Bengals, unless they have to. We're the purgatory of pro teams, a virtual midpoint between Heaven (pick any decent team) and hell (out of the NFL entirely...see pacman jones).
Somebody needs to move Mike Brown's cheese.

[xuflash]

I've been living in Atlanta for almost 25 years now. I still pull for the Bengals. At least I start every season with the hopes that they will do something.

I hate to see TJ go. I thought he brought a lot to the team. But that is what makes the Bungels the Bungles...

[THRILLHOUSE]

I agree with you. But, we probably could have signed him for much cheaper if the deal was done months ago.
Like you said, we do need offensive linemen and right now we just sit here with our thumbs up our butts.

Unfortunately this will be the case until the team is out of the Brown family's control. :mad:

[Jumpy]

Two words: Alvin Harper.

TJ will never be anything more than a possession receiver and should not command the contract he got. The Bengals drafted two guys that are as good, if not better (talent wise), than TJ. Let him walk for that kind of money.

I want to see some O-line signings. And Derrick Ward. Benson is almost assuredly a lock to resign. He isn't getting any interest around the league, aside from the Texans, who want to use him as a backup.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Two words: Alvin Harper.

TJ will never be anything more than a possession receiver and should not command the contract he got. The Bengals drafted two guys that are as good, if not better (talent wise), than TJ. Let him walk for that kind of money.

I want to see some O-line signings. And Derrick Ward. Benson is almost assuredly a lock to resign. He isn't getting any interest around the league, aside from the Texans, who want to use him as a backup.

Agreed. I liked what I saw from Caldwell and that is who was drafted to take over for TJ. I wish TJ well but his numbers are going to go severely down in Seattle. He will no longer have the luxury of Chad on the other side of the field getting double and triple teamed. Seattle doesn't have any other receiving threats so it will be interesting to see how TJ will do being doubled all game long.

Common sense would dictate that Benson will be back, but you do have to factor in that he is from Texas. I would think he would be dumb to pass up a starting role for a back up role, but don't underestimate how players feel about playing in Cincy.

[boozehound]

I've been living in Atlanta for almost 25 years now. I still pull for the Bengals. At least I start every season with the hopes that they will do something.

I hate to see TJ go. I thought he brought a lot to the team. But that is what makes the Bungels the Bungles...

I'm kind of glad to see TJ go. I liked him, and he didn't deserve to spend the rest of his career rotting in Cincinnati.

If I were him, I would want to go somewhere else too.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Two words: Alvin Harper.

TJ will never be anything more than a possession receiver and should not command the contract he got. The Bengals drafted two guys that are as good, if not better (talent wise), than TJ. Let him walk for that kind of money.

I want to see some O-line signings. And Derrick Ward. Benson is almost assuredly a lock to resign. He isn't getting any interest around the league, aside from the Texans, who want to use him as a backup.

Possesion recievers are one of the most important parts of a football team. Do the Bengals have that guy now? I dont know much about their young recievers so maybe they do, but dont underestimate the importance of a guy who runs his route crisply and correctly every play and who could go over the middle and who could catch 100 balls.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Possesion recievers are one of the most important parts of a football team. Do the Bengals have that guy now? I dont know much about their young recievers so maybe they do, but dont underestimate the importance of a guy who runs his route crisply and correctly every play and who could go over the middle and who could catch 100 balls.

Andre Caldwell. It will only be his 2nd season so he won't replicate TJ's production right away but I like his potential.

[dc_x]

It's Chris Henry time!!! Who Dey....

[xavierj]

I am glad TJ is gone. Now maybe we can get a receiver that just shuts up and plays. I got tired of him throwing his hands and yelling at the refs. How many times did you see guys like Jerry Rice, Art Monk, Hines Ward, Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne act like TJ on the field everytime they got touched. Guy acts like a fool. I am willing to bet within the next 2 years he will be an also ran at the receiver position. He was more a product of the Bengals offense and Carson Palmer then anything else.

[xu15]

Dont even think about putting hines in that category. The guy is one of the biggest tools on this earth and I will hate him until he either stops being a tool (unlikely) or is out of the league.

[GuyFawkes38]

Being that I actively root against the Bengals and feel bad for their players, I feel great that TJ is out of here.

Seattle seems like a really cool city. I'm sure he'll want to win, but if not I bet it's a fun city to be rich in.

[Fireball]

I love T.J., but guarantee that his best numbers are behind him having taken that deal in Seattle. Giving a 30+ year old career #2 receiver big money to be your #1 receiver is a mistake.

Alvin Harper is a GREAT example.

[Fred Garvin]

We need a center ASAP. I was hoping they were gonna make a run at Jeff Saturday.

[bobbiemcgee]

brandon marshall just got arrested again, so he should fit in with the Bungles.

[icecold]

I wish TJ well but his numbers are going to go severely down in Seattle. He will no longer have the luxury of Chad on the other side of the field getting double and triple teamed. Seattle doesn't have any other receiving threats so it will be interesting to see how TJ will do being doubled all game long.

But what if the Hawks draft Crabtree? Housh is a perfect fit for Seattle. The West Coast Offense is all about the short passes over the middle for WRs. This is exactly what Housh is good at. If Hasselback is healthy, the Seahawks could easily win their weak division.

[PM Thor]

I am actively rooting against Mike Brown. That means I want every good player to leave this godforsaken team. I want this team to have a 5 year losing streak, have the fanbase shrink to 10,000, and Mike Brown doesn't make a freaking penny.

Then, and only then, do we get a real owner. An owner who understands that NFL football should not be a primary source of income (like Mikey), and that you have to spend money to make money. I won't be happy the Bungles lose, but I won't be sad either. I just don't care right now with that idiot at the helm. He truly is a stupid man.

I despise Mike Brown. He has taken his fathers epic and untouchable name, and totally destroyed it. Mike Brown won't get another penny out of me, ever. Ever. I hate that MFer. He should move to dayton and get it over with. Combine the hate. I say this honestly, if I ever met him in person, I would punch him square in the face. I am not kidding. I would lose my job probably. It would be worth it. (Maybe fans should just throw eggs at him)

Payback dayton.
Payback.

I HATE dayton.

[DoubleD86]

I agree with the sentiments of many here. I like TJ, but do not care much that he is gone. Was he a great second receiver? Yes. The Alvin Harper comparison is spot on. The fact of the matter is with Carson, Chad, and Chris Henry (I know people hate him but he has talent), the #2 receiver does not have to be amazing to have a great year. That said, I like Caldwell's upside a lot, and do not sleep on Jerome Simpson, he could be pushing Henry out soon.

For TJ, I really hope Seattle doesn't make the mistake of passing on Crabtree. They still need him, he would be a great fit, and pushing TJ to the #2 would be good for him too. TJ + Crabtree would be very good for Hasselback. If they now think WR is shored up and pass on Crabtree, well I expect TJ to have a very poor year. The fact of the matter is when a team can gameplan against TJ, he does nothing. Look at the games where Chad did not play. Say what you want about his troubles last year, when you set up a defensive scheme, it was against the Carson-Chad connection. When Chad was out, TJ was relegated to obscurity. That being said I wish TJ luck and hope he does well in Seattle.

As for the Bengals: The much more pressing needs are OL, DL, and LB. At #6 I think you pray Curry falls (>1% chance). Otherwise, you hope Jason Smith or Eugene Monroe falls and take one of those (in that order if both are there). If both those guys are gone, my next targets are BJ Raji (DT, BC), Ray Maluaga (LB, USC) or Orakpo (DE, Texas). They must evaluate what they see with Odom and Geathers and how they expect Sims or Sherry to turn out. Personally, I think those guys are better than the depth we have at LB and we should take Maluaga (or Orakpo if we think he can be a good OLB). I also like taking a look at Jason Taylor who was just released from the 'Skins. I know he sucked last year, but a short term deal could be beneficial for the Bengals.

Those are just my thoughts but hey, I am not a GM (granted, neither is Mike Brown).

As an afterthought, it is important to remember that even though TJ is gone, and Chad could be gone soon, with a QB like Carson and a decent line + running game(although we don't have that now), we can fill in lower tier guys and still be a very good offense.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I agree with the sentiments of many here. I like TJ, but do not care much that he is gone. Was he a great second receiver? Yes. The Alvin Harper comparison is spot on. The fact of the matter is with Carson, Chad, and Chris Henry (I know people hate him but he has talent), the #2 receiver does not have to be amazing to have a great year. That said, I like Caldwell's upside a lot, and do not sleep on Jerome Simpson, he could be pushing Henry out soon.

For TJ, I really hope Seattle doesn't make the mistake of passing on Crabtree. They still need him, he would be a great fit, and pushing TJ to the #2 would be good for him too. TJ + Crabtree would be very good for Hasselback. If they now think WR is shored up and pass on Crabtree, well I expect TJ to have a very poor year. The fact of the matter is when a team can gameplan against TJ, he does nothing. Look at the games where Chad did not play. Say what you want about his troubles last year, when you set up a defensive scheme, it was against the Carson-Chad connection. When Chad was out, TJ was relegated to obscurity. That being said I wish TJ luck and hope he does well in Seattle.

As for the Bengals: The much more pressing needs are OL, DL, and LB. At #6 I think you pray Curry falls (>1% chance). Otherwise, you hope Jason Smith or Eugene Monroe falls and take one of those (in that order if both are there). If both those guys are gone, my next targets are BJ Raji (DT, BC), Ray Maluaga (LB, USC) or Orakpo (DE, Texas). They must evaluate what they see with Odom and Geathers and how they expect Sims or Sherry to turn out. Personally, I think those guys are better than the depth we have at LB and we should take Maluaga (or Orakpo if we think he can be a good OLB). I also like taking a look at Jason Taylor who was just released from the 'Skins. I know he sucked last year, but a short term deal could be beneficial for the Bengals.

Those are just my thoughts but hey, I am not a GM (granted, neither is Mike Brown).

As an afterthought, it is important to remember that even though TJ is gone, and Chad could be gone soon, with a QB like Carson and a decent line + running game(although we don't have that now), we can fill in lower tier guys and still be a very good offense.

Neither of which the Bengals have right now.

[Jumpy]

Possesion recievers are one of the most important parts of a football team. Do the Bengals have that guy now? I dont know much about their young recievers so maybe they do, but dont underestimate the importance of a guy who runs his route crisply and correctly every play and who could go over the middle and who could catch 100 balls.


I'm not trying to devalue the role of a posession receiver. They are the lynchpins of any good offense. Hines Ward, as much as I dislike the guy, has been invaluable to Pittsburgh over the years in their success. What I'm saying is that there are more guys in the league that can fill the role of a possession receiver than that of a true #1. Possession receiving can be taught whereas the pure talent needed to be a #1 cannot. TJ can't ever be Chad, or Moss, or TO no matter how hard he works. He just doesn't have that level of natural ablity. Therefore, he shouldn't be paid like those guys.

[Smails]

The only way that TJ even remotely resembles Alvin Harper would be if he's a complete and uttter bust in Seattle. I understand the whole #2/posession type receiver comparison, but TJ has the most receptions of any receiver in the NFL since 2005.

I don't think that Alvin Harper even sniffed those kind of numbers. Also, I think TJ is more talented than we give him credit for. Everyone and their brother knew he was getting the ball last year and he still put 90+ catches. The Bengals had no running game, the worst offensive line in the league, an Ivy League back-up at QB. I would not have given 8 million over 5 years, but this season when it's 3rd and 7 (that will happen a lot) the Bengals are going to miss him.

[Jumpy]

I would not have given 8 million over 5 years, but this season when it's 3rd and 7 (that will happen a lot) the Bengals are going to miss him.

The Bengals missed him a lot on 3rd and 7 last year. Badum-psh!

Thank you, I'll be here all week.

[Raoul Duke]

Possession receiving can be taught whereas the pure talent needed to be a #1 cannot. TJ can't ever be Chad, or Moss, or TO no matter how hard he works. He just doesn't have that level of natural ablity. Therefore, he shouldn't be paid like those guys.

This is true, but Chad, Moss, or TO can't ever be TJ either. They're good possession receivers (TO is great), but ask those guys to line up in the slot every time and see how long that lasts.

[GoMuskies]

Alvin Harper was awesome. At least he was in Dallas.

[Jumpy]

This is true, but Chad, Moss, or TO can't ever be TJ either. They're good possession receivers (TO is great), but ask those guys to line up in the slot every time and see how long that lasts.

Why would you ask them to be?

My only point in this thread is that TJ is more easily replaceable than Chad (or any true #1) would be.

[Raoul Duke]

Why would you ask them to be?

My only point in this thread is that TJ is more easily replaceable than Chad (or any true #1) would be.

My point was that I don't think a slot receiver as talented and durable as TJ is easily replaceable, and comparing him to a '#1' receiver is apples and oranges.

[MADXSTER]

That's alot of $ for someone who's not a #1 receiver

[D-West & PO-Z]

My point was that I don't think a slot receiver as talented and durable as TJ is easily replaceable, and comparing him to a '#1' receiver is apples and oranges.

I agree with your points about him not being easily replaceable like some people are trying to say.

[D-West & PO-Z]

That's alot of $ for someone who's not a #1 receiver

He is their number 1. Why does everyone assume that a #1 receiver have to be a guy who stretches the field vertically? TJ is going to be a great fit and have pretty damn good numbers in that West Coast offense. Why cant the Seahawk's 3rd reciever be the guy who stretches the field. Nate Burelson will probably be the guy to stretch the field for Seattle.

Did the Seahawks maybe overpay a little for TJ? Maybe. But look at his numbers the last 3 years. You cant argue those. Who cares how he gets them? This last year is even more impressive with the terrible QB situation and Chad being useless and not line, marginal run game. He still had over 90 catches and over 900 yards in only 15 games. I think you guys are seriously undervaluing what he did for the Bengals. There wont be a guy on the team, unless Chad gets back to being Chad, that comes close to his production over the last 3 years.

[Smails]

Alvin Harper was awesome. At least he was in Dallas.

Alvin Harper was good at catching the deep ball....that's about it. His best year receptions wise in Dallas was 36. He actually had his highest number of receptions during his first year in Tampa with a whopping 46. His YPC were strong....and that's about where his awesoneness ends.

Alvin Harper is more like Chris Henry than TJ

[GoMuskies]

His YPC were strong....and that's about where his awesoneness ends.

Alvin Harper is more like Chris Henry than TJ

Not only strong, but he led the league in YPC his last year with Dallas. He was the perfect compliment to Irvin and Novacek. The Cowboys offense was never the same after he left.

[Jumpy]

My point was that I don't think a slot receiver as talented and durable as TJ is easily replaceable, and comparing him to a '#1' receiver is apples and oranges.


I didn't make the comparison. The Seahawks made that comparison for us by giving him a contract worthy of a #1.

[Jumpy]

Also, my comparison to Harper is not in terms of talent, but the situation. Harper was well thought of because of his situation in Dallas, playing alongside Michael Irvin. It wasn't until he got a big time contract from Tampa that everyone realized that his case was more of the system making the player, much like I believe TJ's situation to be.

[Billy]

Far be it for me to agree with Mike Brown....but....

If you're the Bengals (i.e. you're really bad with almost no hope of being good for a few seasons), an aging receiver isn't the place you want to put your money or time. $15M in guaranteed money doesn't make any sense here.

See what you have in Caldwell and Henry as #2s. Chatman is a serviceable slot guy (that's really all he can do at that size). Jerome Simpson can't run, and is a BIG pile of bad....but you paid him, so you might as well use him occasionally.

[GoMuskies]

Billy is alive.

[DoubleD86]

He is their number 1. Why does everyone assume that a #1 receiver have to be a guy who stretches the field vertically? TJ is going to be a great fit and have pretty damn good numbers in that West Coast offense. Why cant the Seahawk's 3rd reciever be the guy who stretches the field. Nate Burelson will probably be the guy to stretch the field for Seattle.

Unless they go out and get someone for the defense to focus on, like a Crabtree, I completely disagree with you. He is a good fit in a West Coast offense, yes, but if the defense is able to key on him, he gets shut down.

Look at his numbers in games Chad didn't play. When he was the WR teams planned to stop, he was useless. As bad as Chad played last year, teams still gameplanned against Ocho Cinco, not against TJ. If TJ is who they gameplan against, he will be rendered ineffective.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Unless they go out and get someone for the defense to focus on, like a Crabtree, I completely disagree with you. He is a good fit in a West Coast offense, yes, but if the defense is able to key on him, he gets shut down.

Look at his numbers in games Chad didn't play. When he was the WR teams planned to stop, he was useless. As bad as Chad played last year, teams still gameplanned against Ocho Cinco, not against TJ. If TJ is who they gameplan against, he will be rendered ineffective.

If teams focus that much on TJ, Branch, Burelson, and John Carlson are going to have a field day. If that happens TJ is essentially doing his job as a #1. You all have said it yourselves, he isnt the prototypical number 1 deep threat so why do you all think he will all of a sudden be doubled every game? The Seahawks have other good receivers as long as they stay healthy.

I'm not saying it wasnt the right move for the Bengals because they are pretty bad and arent close to being good so they shouldnt spend that kind of money on an aging receiver but I think you guys are crazy if you dont think TJ is going to continue to produce.