Mick Cronin is crying again

[THRILLHOUSE]

Once again Mick is crying about how his Bearcats should be in the NCAA Tournament and how its outrageous that some projections only have 7 Big East teams. Then of course he goes on to whine about how the A10 doesn't deserve multiple bids and that a team like Syracuse would easily win the A10. Last year when he did this UC completely fell apart, now I am hoping it happens again even though them winning helps our RPI.

[GuyFawkes38]

I've attacked Paul Daugherty many times at Xhoops. So it's only fair to point out the positives.

Here's a great paragraph from his blog:


Big East basketball coaches are getting to be a bit much. Yesterday, I heard Jim Boeheim declare, again, how tough the league is. Does a day pass when we don't hear some BE coach sound like he's taking his team up the hill at Gettysburg, night after night? We get it. The BE is good. Better than the ACC, or even the Big 10? Debatable. And I don't hear K or Roy Williams or Izzo talking about what butcher shops their leagues are. The Big East boys are sounding very SEC football-like.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Doc is spot on with his assessment of the Big East coaches. I cannot stand Boehiem and his constant whining around this time of the year. Hey Jimmy, maybe if you would schedule games outside of the state of NY you would get more respect come selection sunday.

[xavierj]

Once again Mick is crying about how his Bearcats should be in the NCAA Tournament and how its outrageous that some projections only have 7 Big East teams. Then of course he goes on to whine about how the A10 doesn't deserve multiple bids and that a team like Syracuse would easily win the A10. Last year when he did this UC completely fell apart, now I am hoping it happens again even though them winning helps our RPI.

What makes Mick think Sryacuse would win the A-10? Is it the 5 point come from behind home win over Richmond, their loss at home to Cleveland St. or the 3 point home nail bitter against lowly Virginia? Seriously maybe if the Big East teams played and beat someone in the non conference I would understand the beef but the big east was very mediocre outside of conference this year. The league has about 5 good teams and that is it. The rest are mediocre to terrible.

[Xpectations]

If the Big East were that good -- let alone the best conference ever, as you often hear Big East supporters say -- it would be the #1 conference THIS SEASON ALONE in at least one of the major ratings systems (e.g., RPI, Pomeroy, Sagarin, etc.).

Not only is it not #1 in any system, it is #3 in every system. How in the hell can a league be #3 in ratings systems that are close to quality of the Vegas line (e.g., Sagarin) and tops in terms of predictive success within a single season and yet be considered the toughest conference ever?

Look, the Big East is good ... very good (and much better than this year's version of the A-10) ... but it ain't close to being the best conference ever, and it isn't even the best conference in 2008-2009. Yes, there are more very good teams than any BCS conference, but there are also EASILY more very bad teams than any BCS conference.

UC is winning because they're beating those bad teams, and are also beating some of the teams that were previously VASTLY overrated.

Now regarding Midget Cronin's point that Syracuse would easily win the A-10, he's simply wrong!

Could they win it? Absolutely. But I would honestly not give them more than a 1-in-5 shot at best. Xavier is better than Syracuse. Dayton is arguably better than Syracuse. And that doesn't even countl, St. Joe's, which is currently leading the league.

Mick needs to share whatever Chronic he's smoking with the rest of us.

[GoMuskies]

Louisville was tied for first in the Big East coming in to the night. They lost at home to UNLV (with UNLV's best player out injured), on a neutral court against Western Kentucky, and on a neutral court against Minnesota. So the Big East's best are hardly invincible (other than UConn).

[Juice]

Add Mick to Huggs and Boeheim to the group of Big East coaches who pull this shit every year. Their teams are clearly on the bubble and can blame no one but themselves, so what do they do? They put down other conferences and say that the Big East deserves 12 bids or whatever. It is like clock work at the end of every damn season.

[GuyFawkes38]

Add Mick to Huggs and Boeheim to the group of Big East coaches who pull this shit every year. Their teams are clearly on the bubble and can blame no one but themselves, so what do they do? They put down other conferences and say that the Big East deserves 12 bids or whatever. It is like clock work at the end of every damn season.

True. It's so ridiculous.

The Selection Committee states year after year that they don't take into consideration conference affiliation and they don't even look at how many bids each conference receives. Instead, the SC focuses individually on each teams resumes.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Add Mick to Huggs and Boeheim to the group of Big East coaches who pull this shit every year. Their teams are clearly on the bubble and can blame no one but themselves, so what do they do? They put down other conferences and say that the Big East deserves 12 bids or whatever. It is like clock work at the end of every damn season.

Yep, every frickin year they pull this. Then the goons on ESPN will agree and throw a hissy fit when one of their precious Big East teams doesn't get in the tourney. The Big East was "great" last year and how many Final Four teams did they have??? Heck, they had the same amount of Elite 8 teams as the "lowly" A-10.

[An X Fan]

Here are my thoughts that I passed on to UC Lance McAlister since I know he'll be trying to drum up UC support tomorrow:

I'll take a stab at Mick's comments about Syracuse and the Atlantic 10, and by extension UC's performance in the Big East and Xavier.

From the start, I'm a Xavier fan. That's my perspective, but I approach this rationally, using facts.

The Big East is an outstanding conference, and one of the best this season. It is certainly a superior overall conference to the Atlantic 10. It is a conference with its bottom feeders, and they are part of the conference too, just like UConn, Pitt, and Villanova. There's Seton Hall, South Florida, Rutgers, and DePaul. The Big East is also ranked the 3rd best conference this season, behind the ACC and Big Ten (according to the RPI and Sagarin). Computer rankings don't mean a whole lot, but they use data from actual outcomes to rank the conferences. To my eye, I think the ACC is the best and Big East second best, but I would not rank the Big East as the greatest conference in the history of college basketball. I would also agree with Doc that the complaining and carrying on of many Big East coaches about how difficult the Big East is becomes insufferable at times and compares favorably to the chatter that comes from SEC football country. Yes, Big East basketball and SEC football are really, really great. We get it already.

Mick is rightly proud of the effort and execution of his Bearcats this season, guiding them to an impressive record in the conference. I would point out that UC has not beaten a Big East team in the top half of the conference. This isn't to diminish UC, but it is a fact. He's sticking up for his team and pushing for them to make the tournament - which he should be doing. But not everybody feels that way, and Joe Lunardi made his prediction on who would make the tournament (not who should make the tournament) based upon results as of mid-February. UC will have a chance to make their statement against some of the better teams in the Big East from now into March, including the Big East tournament.

That's my view on the Big East as a whole and UC specifically.

When it comes to Xavier and the Atlantic 10, I think the discussion is silly. Mick and many fans who say things like, "How would Xavier do in the Big East?" want it answered by a Xavier team with Atlantic 10 resources. If I was to really answer that question, I would say that Xavier would be a top 4 or 5 team in the Big East, give or take based on the individual season. Xavier would have additional financial resources stemming from the Big East television contract and would have greater visibility and ability to attract top recruits because of that television contract and the strength and prestige of the Big East conference name. I think the recruiting advantage of the Big East is the most important part. Xavier is as strong as they are recruiting from the A-10, often beating "bigger" schools for top recruits. But there are definitely some doors that are closed to XU because of their conference affiliation. This is a reality. Xavier has a great administration, great coach, and great program - they would adjust well to the improved opportunities and would have Xavier as one of the top programs in the Big East. No doubt in my mind.

But bearing in mind some of the limitations that Xavier has in the A-10, "Big East guy" asks how they would do in their conference.

The Atlantic 10 version of this question is, "How would Syracuse do in the Atlantic 10 without the Big East affiliation, television contract, and recruiting advantage?" Mick and Big East supporters point to Syracuse's (Mick chose that example by pulling them in) McDonald's All-Americans and talent. That's true. The fact is that Syracuse would not be getting those McDonald's All-Americans if they were in the Atlantic 10. The doors that are almost always closed to Xavier and other A-10 teams would be closed to Syracuse too. How would they do under those circumstances?

If you really want to ask the question of how Xavier or any other A-10 team would do in the Big East, you can't have it both ways. You can't say that A-10 teams would finish middle of the pack in the Big East without giving them the advantages of that conference. And you can't say that Syracuse or other Big East teams would automatically win the Atlantic 10 without hindering them with the challenges of the A-10.

This might be too much rational analysis for an argument that's intended to be "we're awesome, you stink," but it's true, and I'd like to see someone counter the logic.

If Mick really wants an answer to his questions, he has a lot more to consider before he gets a realistic answer. If his point was to throw some red meat to a fan base that really hasn't embraced him, I guess he made his point.

To put it another way for UC fans, it's like folks who said that UC football would never compete in the Big East because they weren't that good in Conference USA. Yeah, they weren't that great in Conference USA. But the game changed when they went to the Big East. Recruits who wouldn't consider UC in the past now looked at them. They got the right athletic administration in place. They got the right coaches in place, with Minter, then Dantonio who took it to the next level, and now Brian Kelly who has taken it to the next level. So the program is run well and they took advantage of their new conference's opportunities and resources, and look what happened with them. Big East football champs.

Xavier has had the right administration, coaches, and program in place for 25 years. With the advantages of the Big East, I know they would take the same leap. Keep in mind, this is a team that has been ranked in the Top 10 this season, in what was viewed to be somewhat of a rebuilding year. Their jump isn't nearly the one that UC football had to make.

I hope this discussion from an informed Xavier fan's perspective helps add to the discussion.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Here are my thoughts that I passed on to UC Lance McAlister since I know he'll be trying to drum up UC support tomorrow:

I'll take a stab at Mick's comments about Syracuse and the Atlantic 10, and by extension UC's performance in the Big East and Xavier.

From the start, I'm a Xavier fan. That's my perspective, but I approach this rationally, using facts.

The Big East is an outstanding conference, and one of the best this season. It is certainly a superior overall conference to the Atlantic 10. It is a conference with its bottom feeders, and they are part of the conference too, just like UConn, Pitt, and Villanova. There's Seton Hall, South Florida, Rutgers, and DePaul. The Big East is also ranked the 3rd best conference this season, behind the ACC and Big Ten (according to the RPI and Sagarin). Computer rankings don't mean a whole lot, but they use data from actual outcomes to rank the conferences. To my eye, I think the ACC is the best and Big East second best, but I would not rank the Big East as the greatest conference in the history of college basketball. I would also agree with Doc that the complaining and carrying on of many Big East coaches about how difficult the Big East is becomes insufferable at times and compares favorably to the chatter that comes from SEC football country. Yes, Big East basketball and SEC football are really, really great. We get it already.

Mick is rightly proud of the effort and execution of his Bearcats this season, guiding them to an impressive record in the conference. I would point out that UC has not beaten a Big East team in the top half of the conference. This isn't to diminish UC, but it is a fact. He's sticking up for his team and pushing for them to make the tournament - which he should be doing. But not everybody feels that way, and Joe Lunardi made his prediction on who would make the tournament (not who should make the tournament) based upon results as of mid-February. UC will have a chance to make their statement against some of the better teams in the Big East from now into March, including the Big East tournament.

That's my view on the Big East as a whole and UC specifically.

When it comes to Xavier and the Atlantic 10, I think the discussion is silly. Mick and many fans who say things like, "How would Xavier do in the Big East?" want it answered by a Xavier team with Atlantic 10 resources. If I was to really answer that question, I would say that Xavier would be a top 4 or 5 team in the Big East, give or take based on the individual season. Xavier would have additional financial resources stemming from the Big East television contract and would have greater visibility and ability to attract top recruits because of that television contract and the strength and prestige of the Big East conference name. I think the recruiting advantage of the Big East is the most important part. Xavier is as strong as they are recruiting from the A-10, often beating "bigger" schools for top recruits. But there are definitely some doors that are closed to XU because of their conference affiliation. This is a reality. Xavier has a great administration, great coach, and great program - they would adjust well to the improved opportunities and would have Xavier as one of the top programs in the Big East. No doubt in my mind.

But bearing in mind some of the limitations that Xavier has in the A-10, "Big East guy" asks how they would do in their conference.

The Atlantic 10 version of this question is, "How would Syracuse do in the Atlantic 10 without the Big East affiliation, television contract, and recruiting advantage?" Mick and Big East supporters point to Syracuse's (Mick chose that example by pulling them in) McDonald's All-Americans and talent. That's true. The fact is that Syracuse would not be getting those McDonald's All-Americans if they were in the Atlantic 10. The doors that are almost always closed to Xavier and other A-10 teams would be closed to Syracuse too. How would they do under those circumstances?

If you really want to ask the question of how Xavier or any other A-10 team would do in the Big East, you can't have it both ways. You can't say that A-10 teams would finish middle of the pack in the Big East without giving them the advantages of that conference. And you can't say that Syracuse or other Big East teams would automatically win the Atlantic 10 without hindering them with the challenges of the A-10.

This might be too much rational analysis for an argument that's intended to be "we're awesome, you stink," but it's true, and I'd like to see someone counter the logic.

If Mick really wants an answer to his questions, he has a lot more to consider before he gets a realistic answer. If his point was to throw some red meat to a fan base that really hasn't embraced him, I guess he made his point.

To put it another way for UC fans, it's like folks who said that UC football would never compete in the Big East because they weren't that good in Conference USA. Yeah, they weren't that great in Conference USA. But the game changed when they went to the Big East. Recruits who wouldn't consider UC in the past now looked at them. They got the right athletic administration in place. They got the right coaches in place, with Minter, then Dantonio who took it to the next level, and now Brian Kelly who has taken it to the next level. So the program is run well and they took advantage of their new conference's opportunities and resources, and look what happened with them. Big East football champs.

Xavier has had the right administration, coaches, and program in place for 25 years. With the advantages of the Big East, I know they would take the same leap. Keep in mind, this is a team that has been ranked in the Top 10 this season, in what was viewed to be somewhat of a rebuilding year. Their jump isn't nearly the one that UC football had to make.

I hope this discussion from an informed Xavier fan's perspective helps add to the discussion.

Great, great post/email. It is a point a lot of us have talked about and all of us know. Way to point it out to the others. Let us know if he writes you back.

[GoMuskies]

I think you went to too much trouble. Just say that we own the Big East. Even without "Big East" resources. When is the last time a Big East team beat Xavier anyway? Two years ago?

[GuyFawkes38]

"an x fan" has a lot of smart things to say.

But I disagree with one of the recurring themes of his post. I honestly don't think having Big East affiliation magically gives a school awesome recruits, facilities, and prestige.

If Uconn moved to the A10 I'd imagine they would become another Memphis like superpower.

Or take Marquette, a very similar type program to X. Has the Big East magically improved their recruiting ability or facilities. No. In fact, media reports suggest that part of the reason Tom Crean left was due to the difficulties of being a midwest team competing in the Big East.

I just don't understand why X fans are so obsessed about conference affiliation.

[GoMuskies]

Speaking of "Big East Resources", while I can watch every single Xavier game from my living room in Braintree, MA this year, is it not true that there have been quite a few UC games where UC fans couldn't see the games within the city limits? Advantage A-10.

[Xpectations]

Great post, An X Fan. I agree.

Here are some other points I made on the Rivals board...

There is no question that Syracuse might win the A-10. But I honestly don't believe it's at all a strong likelihood. And to imply they would just walk away with it is absurd.

I'd give them about a 20% shot at it if the season were to begin with them in our conference. I'd give XU a 40% shot, Dayton a 20% shot and everyone else combined a 20% shot.

Xavier and Syracuse have both played 24 games. Xavier has the stronger SOS.

Syracuse is 17-7 with an SOS of #17. Xavier is 20-4 with an SOS of #16.

Xavier is #7 in the RPI. Syracuse is #22.

Xavier has lost to only one team outside of the RPI Top 25. Syracuse has lost to three teams outside of the RPI Top 25.

Xavier is #25 in Pomeroy rankings. Syracuse is #35.

Xavier is #17 in the Sagarin rankings (#24 in his PREDICTOR). Syracuse is #26 in the Sagarin rankings (#31 in his PREDICTOR).

Again, you never know what would happen with any degree of certainty, but no matter how you slice it, there's little evidence to support that Syracuse is better than Xavier -- let alone the clear favorite to win the A-10.

Cronin is a putz and a punk. I've really given him the benefit of the doubt, but this erases all doubt.

That said, I love that the Shootout may get increasingly interesting in the coming years.

P.S. And to GuyFawkes, Xavier does well in spite of conference affiliation. Most BCS schools owe a good portion of their success to conference affiliation. There's a reason that half of BCS teams get into the NCAA Tournament each season, and being in BCS conferences does help with TV, overall exposure, recruits, dollars, etc.

Unlike what many UC fans believe though, the Big East is an advantage to them, not a disadvantage. There's a reason that out of nearly 300 non-BCS schools, there are very, very, very few who could ever even hope for a Top 10 ranking.

[GuyFawkes38]

P.S. And to GuyFawkes, Xavier does well in spite of conference affiliation. Most BCS schools owe a good portion of their success to conference affiliation. There's a reason that half of BCS teams get into the NCAA Tournament, and being in BCS conferences does help with TV, overall exposure, recruits, dollars, etc.

Unlike what many UC fans believe though, the Big East is an advantage to them, not a disadvantage. There's a reason that out of nearly 300 non-BCS schools, there are very, very, very few who could ever even hope for a Top 10 ranking.

I disagree with all of this. This is a never ending debate.

I honestly don't want X to enter the Big East. But part of me wishes they would just to prove posters like Xpectations wrong.

ugghhh. that's all I have say.

And yeah, Marquette was a crappy program before they entered the Big East. And now they are awesome because of the Big East. Yeah. Sure.

[GoMuskies]

Most BCS schools owe a good portion of their success to conference affiliation.

I don't think that's right. It's sort of the chicken or the egg argument. You take the chicken (BCS teams are good because they're in BCS leagues), while I will go with the egg (BCS leagues are good because they're filled with the best programs). Notice Louisville and Marquette, who already had great programs have thrived in the Big East. Louisville and Marquette would be just as good if they were in C-USA still. Notice DePaul and USF have not exactly flourished. They were lousy in C-USA, and they're still lousy.

[Xpectations]

I disagree with all of this. This is a never ending debate.

I honestly don't want X to enter the Big East. But part of me wishes they would just to prove posters like Xpectations wrong.

ugghhh. that's all I have say.

Wrong about what? Prove me wrong.

What you've never heard me say is I wish XU would switch conferences. Why? Because I could care less. I'm fine with the A-10. Don't infer what wasn't implied.

That said, again, where am I wrong? Can you honestly say that most BCS teams don't benefit from being in a BCS conference? What an absurd premise if you do.

They absolutely get more TV time and more dollars than non-BCS conferences. That's a fact. It is indisputable.

Xavier simply bucks the trend, which is why I've NEVER pushed for them to be in a BCS conference. XU can get increasing national pub ... TV time ... ever-improving recruits ... big bucks.

But admit the FACTS. Xavier does it despite conference affiliation, not because of it. Again, I defy you to prove otherwise.

[Xpectations]

I don't think that's right. It's sort of the chicken or the egg argument. You take the chicken (BCS teams are good because they're in BCS leagues), while I will go with the egg (BCS leagues are good because they're filled with the best programs). Notice Louisville and Marquette, who already had great programs have thrived in the Big East. Louisville and Marquette would be just as good if they were in C-USA still. Notice DePaul and USF have not exactly flourished. They were lousy in C-USA, and they're still lousy.

There is no question you have to make a commitment to the sport -- whatever sport(s) you wish to excel at.

But tell me this ... if DePaul really made a major dollar and administrative commitment (top AD, rising and proven coach, etc.) to basketball, do you think they'd have a better shot of moving to the upper echelon, or do you think someone like Western Carolina (who is one slot ahead of them in the RPI) would have an equal chance?

The odds against Western Carolina are overwhelmingly against them, no matter how badly they might want or try to commit to getting better. DePaul could absolutely get there with the right people, and the climb would be a HELL of a lot easier.

That's the point.

[GuyFawkes38]

god, how many times do we have this debate every year. When it comes down to it, xpectations argument is simply whiney.

Would X be a better program in the Big East? I don't think so.

Again, I'm not seeing the benifits of the Big East for schools like Marquette.

[GoMuskies]

I think DePaul in C-USA had just as good a shot (probably a better shot). Put DePaul in the SoCon with Western Carolina, and I think they'd have a better shot of climbing to the top of the college basketball world than they do now.

I don't think BCS conference is automatically an advantage for every program. I think Gonzaga benefits mightily from being the big fish in the small pond, for example.

[XU '11]

While I don't disagree with the points about league affiliation giving Big East schools a distinct advantage in the long run, I don't think it is at all pertinent to the topic at hand. The Selection Committee doesn't select at large teams based on "who did the best with the resources they have" but on who the best 34 teams are. So "how would Syracuse do in the A10" is a fine question to ask in my opinion.

My problem is that Mick implied Syracuse was not even one of the 7 best teams in the league since they are currently 8th in the Big East standings. If you want to complain about bids, ask how UC would do in the A10 (not great) or how Notre Dame or Georgetown would do. They certainly wouldn't do any better than XU or UD and those are the only two teams close to getting bids in the league.

[Xpectations]

god, how many times do we have this debate every year. When it comes down to it, xpectations argument is simply whiney.

Would X be a better program in the Big East? I don't think so.


Please go back and show me one post, just one, where I've whined about conference.

Let me repeat ... I could honestly care less whether XU is in the Big East or not.

That said, I'm also honest enough with myself to know conference matters (not whining; it's a fact). To not believe so is foolish.

Let me ask a couple of simple questions to those who don't believe conference matters ...

Do you believe Xavier has never lost any high-level recruits because of conference affiliation? If you believe they haven't, you are fooling yourself.

Next, do you believe Xavier has received commitments from high-level recruits because they said, "Damn, I really wanna play in the A-10!" If you believe that's happening then you're nuts.

The answers to those two questions alone tell you it matters.

Let me ask you another question. If for whatever reason, XU was forced to switch conferences and you had to choose between let's say the SEC and the Southern Conference, which would choose? If conference doesn't matter, then I suppose the answer doesn't matter, does it?

Again though, I do not wish Xavier to switch conferences. I wouldn't be worried if they moved up, but I don't care if it happens. I sure as hell wouldn't want them to move down to a lower conference though.

[Xpectations]

I think DePaul in C-USA had just as good a shot (probably a better shot). Put DePaul in the SoCon with Western Carolina, and I think they'd have a better shot of climbing to the top of the college basketball world than they do now.

I don't think BCS conference is automatically an advantage for every program. I think Gonzaga benefits mightily from being the big fish in the small pond, for example.

Look, no one is saying that all you have to do is get yourself into a BCS conference, and presto, you're magically a national title-contending team.

However, I think it's tough to argue that when XU made the move up from the MCC to the A-10 it did wonders for their program. There's a reason for that.

[GuyFawkes38]

I'm kind of out of it tonight. I honestly feel a bit too tired to answer all of xpectations questions.

At the basketball level, conference affilation is relatively irrelevant. I would want no part of X entering the Big East.

I wonder if this tired debate is going on the Butler board or the Gonzaga board.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I think DePaul in C-USA had just as good a shot (probably a better shot). Put DePaul in the SoCon with Western Carolina, and I think they'd have a better shot of climbing to the top of the college basketball world than they do now.

I don't think BCS conference is automatically an advantage for every program. I think Gonzaga benefits mightily from being the big fish in the small pond, for example.

I think thats wrong. They wouldnt get players who come to there school who want to be in the Big East if they were in the SoCon.

I think there is definitely a benefit to being in a bigger conference. How could there not be? More money, more exposure, more opportunities for big wins.

Regardless of the success Xavier has had, have they, to this point, ever had a McDonald's All American?(Excluding Drew who transferred.) I 100% believe we would have those players if we were in the Big East. The best players want to play in the best conferences.

I'm not saying that Xavier hasnt had great success or they dont have great players but anyone who says there wouldnt be additional advantages to playing in the Big East is not living in reality.

[Xpectations]

I'm kind of out of it tonight. I honestly feel a bit too tired to answer all of xpectations questions.

At the basketball level, conference affilation is relatively irrelevant. I would want no part of X entering the Big East.

I wonder if this tired debate is going on the Butler board or the Gonzaga board.

You keep talking about this "tired debate." What tired debate are you talking about?

If you're talking about, there's Xpectations, another fan pining for XU to enter the Big East, then there is no debate. I'm not wishing for that.

Like I said, I don't fear it either. But I sure as hell don't spend any time whatsoever thinking, "Damn, I sure wish XU was in the Big East."

I'm simply saying conference affiliation matters. Does it matter less than making a huge overall commitment to the program in question? Absolutely not. As I've said, it doesn't matter what conference you're in if building a nationally successful program isn't paramount to you. That matters most.

If that's your point, then we agree. If your point is that Xavier doesn't need to be in the Big East (or any other BCS conference for that matter), we also agree.

But if your point is that conference affiliation can't be an advantage or a detriment, depending upon the conference in question, we're gonna have to agree to disagree.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm kind of out of it tonight. I honestly feel a bit too tired to answer all of xpectations questions.

At the basketball level, conference affilation is relatively irrelevant. I would want no part of X entering the Big East.

I wonder if this tired debate is going on the Butler board or the Gonzaga board.

Thats just not true Guy.

[GuyFawkes38]

I think thats wrong. They wouldnt get players who come to there school who want to be in the Big East if they were in the SoCon.

I think there is definitely a benefit to being in a bigger conference. How could there not be? More money, more exposure, more opportunities for big wins.

Regardless of the success Xavier has had, have they, to this point, ever had a McDonald's All American?(Excluding Drew who transferred.) I 100% believe we would have those players if we were in the Big East. The best players want to play in the best conferences.

I'm not saying that Xavier hasnt had great success or they dont have great players but anyone who says there wouldnt be additional advantages to playing in the Big East is not living in reality.

So if X joined the Big East they would suddenly recruit mcdonalds all americans. Did this happen to Marquette with their move to the big conference?

Is UC recruiting mcdonalds all americans?

The whole "life would be awesome in the Big East" thing is a lie.

[D-West & PO-Z]

So if X joined the Big East they would suddenly recruit mcdonalds all americans. Did this happen to Marquette with their move to the big conference?

Is UC recruiting mcdonalds all americans?

The whole "life would be awesome in the Big East" thing is a lie.

Its hard to say it could get much better than what we are doing now so I'm not saying life would be better in the Big East but I do 100% believe we would get even better recruits if we were in the Big East. I dont know enough about the Marquette program and their history before Big East so I cant answer questions about them without doing some research but their program seems to be doing pretty well. I would venture to guess they are better known nationally as a program than they were 10 years ago.

UC is not recruiting All Americans no, but they have been in a coaching transition right now and you know that and that that is not really a fiar question at this point.

[Xpectations]

So if X joined the Big East they would suddenly recruit mcdonalds all americans. Did this happen to Marquette with their move to the big conference?

Is UC recruiting mcdonalds all americans?

The whole "life would be awesome in the Big East" thing is a lie.

UC has two 5-star players on their roster today -- all since joining the Big East. Maybe it's a coincidence.

Again, go back and honestly answer my previous questions -- if not on the board, then to yourself. The truth will set you free.

As to "life would be awesome in the Big East thing," I've never suggested anything like that. So if you've had that debate with others on other threads, please forget about it. It doesn't apply to me, though you keep assigning it to me.

My point once again is simply that conference affiliation matters. It mattered to XU when we were in the MCC. It mattered when we moved up to the A-10. It doesn't mean I want to move again, let alone to a specific conference.

[PM Thor]

Screw UC. We beat them. Let their quasi-midget Irishman cry all he wants. There is no way to disprove it any which way anyway. Let them cry all they want.

UC lost. Xavier won. Done and done.

I HATE dayton.

[DoubleD86]

So if X joined the Big East they would suddenly recruit mcdonalds all americans. Did this happen to Marquette with their move to the big conference?

Is UC recruiting mcdonalds all americans?

The whole "life would be awesome in the Big East" thing is a lie.

I am not trying to pick sides at all on this whole thing, but wasn't part of the reason X lost out on Ari Stewart because of the A-10. I seem to remember every article I read about Ari had him mentioning X showing him that the A-10 isn't that bad of a place to play.

To me that means it was big on his mind, if not at the end, at least at the beginning. Why would you not think other top 50 recruits aren't the same way?

Kids don't dream of playing in the A-10, they dream of playing in the ACC, Big East, etc. X is recruiting very well in the A-10, and I am confident they can make a Final Four or NC from the A-10, but when was the last top 50 recruit? How come a lot of the top recruits X gets, they are either there in the beginning (Frease, Walsh?) or local guys.

[GuyFawkes38]

Its hard to say it could get much better than what we are doing now so I'm not saying life would be better in the Big East but I do 100% believe we would get even better recruits if we were in the Big East. I dont know enough about the Marquette program and their history before Big East so I cant answer questions about them without doing some research but their program seems to be doing pretty well. I would venture to guess they are better known nationally as a program than they were 10 years ago.

UC is not recruiting All Americans no, but they have been in a coaching transition right now and you know that and that that is not really a fiar question at this point.

Marquette went to the Final Four as a Conference USA team. That was, and probably will be, the peak of their athletic program success outside of the national championship in the 70's. It's been downhill since that point.

Conference affiliation matters in football.

In basketball, it gives you a little cash and obligates a school to face a certain schedule. I don't think it's a recruiting magnet.

[PM Thor]

Again, Guy is right. How many BCS teams would want to trade for Xaviers schedule these last two years?

X is recruiting, and winning despite the A10. We lost Ari Stewart to Wake Forest. It's not like we lost him to Northwestern. Conference affiliation has very little to do with how kids decide where to go when it comes to the level of recruiting we are in.

I HATE dayton.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Again, Guy is right. How many BCS teams would want to trade for Xaviers schedule these last two years?

X is recruiting, and winning despite the A10. We lost Ari Stewart to Wake Forest. It's not like we lost him to Northwestern. Conference affiliation has very little to do with how kids decide where to go when it comes to the level of recruiting we are in.

I HATE dayton.

Exactly Thor, despite the A10.

I dont think there is a team inside the Big East or the ACC that would trade for our schedule. We are so front loaded with our schedule. We worry about our RPI going down by just playing a team despite winning the game.

Conference affiliation has A LOT to do with where kids go to college at our level of recruiting. Why are the best players always going to the best conferences? Why is Kenny Frease at #46 our highest recruit EVER?

Why arent there teams outside the Big 6 in the final four every year? Or even the Elite 8. You guys are looking at Xavier and saying conference affiliation doesnt matter. We are the exception not the rule.

Xavier took a HUGE leap when we moved to the A10. We made a better conference and it made us better.

[Snipe]

I am glad that Mick is taking shots at the A-10. He isn't just picking a conference at random, he is taking shots right at us. That is awesome. We need some fodder to revive the shootout. Now only if they can make the dance and actually get some fans to come to games we could get this rivalry going again. With the shootout at the Tas next year I welcome Cronin to run his mouth.

The Big East is overrated every year. Historically they may be the most overrated conference. The PAC 10 fights them for that right. Boy do they get some useless teams into decent seeds year in and year out.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Marquette went to the Final Four as a Conference USA team. That was, and probably will be, the peak of their athletic program success outside of the national championship in the 70's. It's been downhill since that point.

Conference affiliation matters in football.

In basketball, it gives you a little cash and obligates a school to face a certain schedule. I don't think it's a recruiting magnet.

Well they have been to the NCAA tourney every year since they have been in the Big East and they two of the best guards in the country. I wouldnt say its been downhill. They are a top 15 team this year.

[MuskieCinci]

Marquette made the Final Four in 2003, correct? It is 2009 and they are a top 15 team. That hill must not be very steep. By 2015 they will have trouble even being a top 25 caliber team!

[Xpectations]

Conference affiliation makes a difference and Guy has yet to make a credible argument otherwise.

Marquette? You cherry pick one season as the level that defined Marquette prior to being in the Big East, which is bad enough, and then you say it's been all downhill since?

Come on. Surely you have something better than that.

[drudy23]

There is no doubt that conference affiliation makes a difference in a recruit's decision in picking a school. Not because of the "clout" of the conference, but because they know they'll be playing against the best players.

The big conferences get the best players...that's what makes them the best conferences. The best players want to play against the best...it's pretty simple.

[danaandvictory]

What a bitch. 76-66, you fetus-looking second-fiddle-at-your-own-school pussy.

[TheDanimal]

The main problem I have with this is the extreme lack of professionalism. This is not some UC fan or Connor Barwin at halftime saying this, but the coach of a Division I basketball program. Trying to legitimize one's own team by bashing others is something good coaches and successful programs just don't do. Let your play speak out against other teams, not your coach. Plus, if there is one league that should never be able to say that the odds are stacked against them, it is that media darling called the Big East.

[GuyFawkes38]

I picked Marquette because X has a very similar type program to them. Almost carbon copies.

I would love to see if Marquette has received a "Big East boost" in the recruiting department. I don't think it's happened yet. Ha, maybe saying the program is going "downhill" is a bit strong.

[GuyFawkes38]

There is no doubt that conference affiliation makes a difference in a recruit's decision in picking a school. Not because of the "clout" of the conference, but because they know they'll be playing against the best players.

The big conferences get the best players...that's what makes them the best conferences. The best players want to play against the best...it's pretty simple.

Does conference affiliation matter to some recruits. Yes, I'll admit that.

But I think it's way down on the priority list. Instead, recruits focus much more on the coach, program, facilities, past Ncaa tourney success, etc....

As gomuskies noted earlier on this thread, there is a "chicken and the egg" problem with your logic. Yes, the Big East tends to attract awesome programs.

But does the Big East create or add to the awesomeness of programs? I don't think so (or maybe a little, but only an insignificant amount).

[An X Fan]

You can put me in the camp that thinks conference affiliation affects recruiting. Keep in mind, I am not saying that Xavier cannot be successful in the Atlantic 10 - in fact, I think we've shown the exact opposite.

Conference affiliation alone guarantees nothing. Xavier has the right administration, right AD, right coach, right players, and so forth. With great leaders and decision makers, I think Xavier would do an excellent job of capitalizing on any advantages associated with a "stronger" conference affiliation. St. John's has New York City and Madison Square Garden and cannot get their act together. Why? Because St. John's doesn't have their act together, doesn't have the drive, determination, and vision to make it happen. Same with DePaul.

Drew Lavendar was a great difference maker for us, but he chose Oklahoma out of high school. And Jordan Crawford looks to be a great difference maker in the future, but he chose Indiana out of high school. And yes, Xavier has beaten out some top notch programs for the likes of Josh Duncan and Kenny Frease. But more often, we've taken good kids and helped them become great winners on and off the court, like Stanley Burrell and BJ Raymond. Or Brad Redford and Justin Cage. You get the idea.

I love the kids we have now, but I would argue that landing even one kid like Jeff Teague at Wake would greatly improve our team. Think if we could get 3-4 more kids like that and added them to the likes of a Brad Redford or Derrick Brown or Kenny Frease?

I like the Atlantic 10 conference and I'm not saying that we need the Big East to legitimize anything we've done. We've accomplished more than most teams in the Big East - seriously. But I do think a better conference affiliation would help our program take another step forward, and that's saying something. And since it won't happen any time soon, it's all just argumentative, which I guess is why we're posting on the Xavier basketball board.

[boozehound]

Mick Cronin is a beady-eyed little grit with no class or professionalism whatsoever.

He looks like the kind of hillbilly spawn that you would see peering out from underneath a single-wide trailer on cops.

[xavierj]

I don't know this answer but since Xavier has been in the A-10 the league has has sent a team to the elite 8 7 times with 5 different programs accomplishing the feat. How many different Big East programs have been to the elite 8 over that same period? and Marquette does not count since the year they went to the final 4 they were in CUSA. Off the top of my head I can think of Louisville, UCONN, Syracuse, Georgetown, NOVA & West Virginia. I guess my point is that it does not matter if you are in the A-10, the Big East, the Horizon or the Mountain West you can have success in any of those conferences if you really want to and put forth the resources.
Mick can spout all he wants but until they make a national tourney just for the big east that crowns the national champion he will just have to deal with smaller conferences putting multiple teams in the dance. As for the A-10 I think Xavier, Temple and Dayton should and will all go to the tourney regardless of what Mick thinks.

[drudy23]

Mick Cronin is a beady-eyed little grit with no class or professionalism whatsoever.

He looks like the kind of hillbilly spawn that you would see peering out from underneath a single-wide trailer on cops.

And I'm harsh?

Guess that's not a personal attack, huh?

Save the excuse...don't want to hear it.

[drudy23]

Why are the best programs consistently the best programs?

Because they get the best players. It's not rocket science.

[boozehound]

And I'm harsh?

Guess that's not a personal attack, huh?

Save the excuse...don't want to hear it.

Just trying to emulate the great drudy I guess.

[Mark 3 Pointer]

I like it... It wasn't fun not hating UC's coach. Let's see how UC responds to playing real Big East games. Not against teams that are on their way down.

Let's put UC's Big East "success" into perspective this year. Here's how teams UC has beat in the Big East have played over their last 12 games.

Rutgers 1-11 over their last 12
Depaul 0-12 over their last 12
St. Johns 3-9 over their last 12
Georgtown 4-8 over their last 12
Notre dame 4-8 over their last 12
Georgetown4-8 over their last 12
St. Johns 3-8 over their last 12

19-65 or an impressive 22.6%.

My point is UC might be 7-5 in the Big East at right now but let's see where they are after they play their next four (syracuse, louisville, pitt and wvu). If they win one... I'll be surprised. Mick is trying to sell the program... anyone with half a brain can look at who UC has played and know they haven't beat a quality opponent yet in the big east.

God bless the little guy for ignoring the facts.

[waggy]

My problem with accepting the idea that BCS conferences are the preference of top recruits, is that it suggests top recruits won't receive equal challenges athletically and educationally at Xavier. This is simply not the case. Xaviers schedule is superior to the vast majority of BCS programs. The number of programs that have a better schedule than Xavier is a very small number. Our student athletes receive a great education and graduate. We probably lead the entire nation in grad statistics, but if not, it's close. The student athlete is going to play for a great teacher of the game. I don't think I need to list the men that have coached at Xavier, but it's an impressive list to be sure. Bottom line is that Xavier is committed to competing as one the best programs in the country, and giving our players everything they could ask for when it comes to personal support, academics, athletic challenge, competition, and ultimately hanging banners.

[Xpectations]

My problem with accepting the idea that BCS conferences are the preference of top recruits, is that it suggests top recruits won't receive equal challenges athletically and educationally at Xavier. This is simply not the case. Xaviers schedule is superior to the vast majority of BCS programs. The number of programs that have a better schedule than Xavier is a very small number. Our student athletes receive a great education and graduate. We probably lead the entire nation in grad statistics, but if not, it's close. The student athlete is going to play for a great teacher of the game. I don't think I need to list the men that have coached at Xavier, but it's an impressive list to be sure. Bottom line is that Xavier is committed to competing as one the best programs in the country, and giving our players everything they could ask for when it comes to personal support, academics, athletic challenge, competition, and ultimately hanging banners.

My point is that BCS conference schools (as a whole) have an advantage over non-BCS schools (as a whole). Recruiting is one of those advantages. Exposure is another. Dollars is another. Coaches (as a result of the first 3) are another.

However, Xavier has absolutely bucked that trend. Waggy is right that we do end up with a top-notch schedule regardless of how strong or weak the rest of the conference is in any given year. Xavier does generate huge dollars. Xavier does get a lot of TV exposure. Xavier does have an upper echelon coach. Xavier can land great recruits now. Xavier can play an elite level strength of schedule. That’s what I mean about bucking the trend.

As I told Guy, I have never suggested Xavier needs to switch conferences. I don't believe they do. For Xavier, conference affiliation -- at this point -- is neither a benefit nor deterrent to its success. Xavier is the very rare exception, and certainly not the rule. Somehow my comments got lumped together with points I've never made, let alone that I don't agree with.

Xavier has now transcended their conference in terms of success. Few other non-BCS schools have. Clearly Memphis, Xavier and Gonzaga have. Butler is right there as well. That’s about the extent of the list though. Yes Davidson is good now, but there isn't enough evidence yet that their success will continue.

[D-West & PO-Z]

My problem with accepting the idea that BCS conferences are the preference of top recruits, is that it suggests top recruits won't receive equal challenges athletically and educationally at Xavier. This is simply not the case. Xaviers schedule is superior to the vast majority of BCS programs. The number of programs that have a better schedule than Xavier is a very small number. Our student athletes receive a great education and graduate. We probably lead the entire nation in grad statistics, but if not, it's close. The student athlete is going to play for a great teacher of the game. I don't think I need to list the men that have coached at Xavier, but it's an impressive list to be sure. Bottom line is that Xavier is committed to competing as one the best programs in the country, and giving our players everything they could ask for when it comes to personal support, academics, athletic challenge, competition, and ultimately hanging banners.

Like I have said Xavier is the exception. They have been able to do a lot of these things.

The thing I will say about the schedule is that we have a better OOC schedule than a lot of Big 6 teams. This season we may still even after playing in the A10 have an overall SOS very very high but this is not what has been the case in the past. Our SOS is already down to 15 when it was in the top 5 and our next 3 games are Fordham, Charlotte, and GW. Its going to take a big hit.

You may have a problem accepting that top recruits prefer the Big Conferences but it is a fact. I dont see how anyone could possibly argue otherwise. The only thing debatable is how high on their list it is when looking at schools but considering the majority decide to go to those big conferences I would argue it is pretty high.

[waggy]

So are you two hardcore fans saying that top recruits shouldn't come to X, or that it's just unlikely?

[D-West & PO-Z]

So are you two hardcore fans saying that top recruits shouldn't come to X, or that it's just unlikely?

History has shown it is unlikely. Luckily we have great coaches who can develop players and get the best talent possible out of our players.

Not sure what the hardcore fans reference is.

[waggy]

History has shown it is unlikely. Luckily we have great coaches who can develop players and get the best talent possible out of our players.

Not sure what the hardcore fans reference is.

My point is that it seems counterproductive to wax poetic on the virtues of BCS conference affliation on a Xavier messageboard.

[Xpectations]

So are you two hardcore fans saying that top recruits shouldn't come to X, or that it's just unlikely?

Not sure what the hardcore fans comment means or if it's directed at me, but if it is directed at me, I don't understand.

I stated that X has bucked the trend. DWest also stated the same thing. I even went on to say that Xavier is getting top talent ... that those recruits will play plenty of times on TV ... that they will play against top tier teams while playing for a top tier coach.

There are plenty of reasons top recruits should and do come to Xavier. And yet there will still be some (and even recently, have been some) that don't because of conference affiliation. I doubt that ACC teams EVER lose a top recruit because they don't want to play in the ACC.

I'm really suprised at where some of these inferences go during these discussions.

Somehow I get tagged with things I've never said, never thought, and don't even agree with.

[D-West & PO-Z]

My point is that it seems counterproductive to wax poetic on the virtues of BCS conference affliation on a Xavier messageboard.

How is it counterproductive? I'm not out recruiting high school kids. Just because I'm a Xavier fan and we are in the A10 doesnt mean I have to ignore reality.

[Xpectations]

My point is that it seems counterproductive to wax poetic on the virtues of BCS conference affliation on a Xavier messageboard.

Should we simply avoid saying it? Should we pretend there is no BCS advantage when there damned sure is an advantage? I'm not here to hide from the truth and that's the truth. BCS schools do tend to have an advantage and to deny that is simply ignoring reality.

Once again (with feeling), Xavier has bucked the trend (not sure how often I can say this ... perhaps I should make it my first-ever sig).

Xavier has transcended the difficulties that do typically exist when not playing in a BCS conference. And Xavier has done so across all dimensions (finances, national exposure, recruiting, coaching, strength of schedule, post season success, rankings, seedings, etc.).

[waggy]

There is no such thing as perfect, but the Xavier men's basketball program is as close as it gets. ;)

[Xpectations]

There is no such thing as perfect, but the Xavier men's basketball program is as close as it gets. ;)

Hey, we agree!

[AviatorX]

Make sure to watch at 12 noon tomorrow on ESPN as (would be) Atlantic 10 champion Syracuse plays Georgetown.

[GuyFawkes38]

I think the title of this thread should be changed to "xpectations is crying" due to his whiny attitude on this thread.

Yes, I came up with that clever line this late at night.

[GuyFawkes38]

Let me say that Xpectations certainly has a reasonable point of view on this matter. I'm sure most people would agree with him over my conferences are largely irrelevant view.

I'm still not convinced of the "BCS/Big East boost". Thus far, Louisville, Marquette, Depaul, and Cincy haven't seemed to received a boost from affiliation. Memphis was excluded from the Big East and if anything, they've stepped up the most as a program since that exclusion.

Over the long run will we see Louiville, Marquette, Depaul, and Cincy reach new heights due to their conference affiliation? I don't think so. But only the future will give us an answer to that question.

[Xpectations]

I think the title of this thread should be changed to "xpectations is crying" due to his whiny attitude on this thread.

Or we could name it the "GuyFawkes is one whiney @$$ed b!tch thread," but it would probably get confused with many hundreds of other threads. Perhaps the mods should just merge them all into one.

[GuyFawkes38]

Or we could name it the "GuyFawkes is one whiney @$$ed b!tch thread," but it would probably get confused with many hundreds of other threads. Perhaps the mods should just merge them all into one.

Come on now. I'm trying to have a constructive debate on this thread. No need for this.

[Xpectations]

Come on now. I'm trying to have a constructive debate on this thread. No need for this.

Huh????????

[D-West & PO-Z]

Huh????????

He is obviously kidding. I thought it was kind of funny even though we all know, himself included, that he is wrong in this debate.

[Xpectations]

He is obviously kidding. I thought it was kind of funny even though we all know, himself included, that he is wrong in this debate.

Trust me, I'm just messin' with that Fawker, trying to get him to out himself as the 3:00 am poster he really is.:)

[GuyFawkes38]

Dustin Dow commented on Cusegate on the X blog.


While I was away, I was checking in from afar and noticed Mick Cronin caused quite a stir with his comments about the relative difficulty of the Big East vs. the A-10 in regard to at-large candidacy (see previous blog posts). He might be right that Syracuse might win the A-10. But that's not a relevant comment. I can promise Cronin, and any other concerned coach out there, that conferences do not get X amount of spots, no matter how tough or easy the league is. So, it doesn't matter if Syracuse would go undefeated in the A-10. What matters, as far as UC should be concerned, is that right now the Bearcats are in a competitive position for an at-large spot, even taking into account their loss at Pitt. UC's team sheet, which the committee will scan closely, shows a 6-9 record against the Top 100, including three Top 50 wins. Just as important, however, UC has zero losses against sub-100 competition. Some, including Joe Lunardi, who Cronin criticized, will argue that UC hasn't beaten a definitive NCAA Tournament qualifier. That's true, although, Georgetown probably would be an NCAA Tournament team if UC hadn't beaten the Hoyas twice, a reality for which UC should be given credit, along with the victory at UNLV, which I currently have in the field.

UC is very much on the borderline. When I put together my S-Curve of 65 teams, the Bearcats were the second-to-last at-large team in my field. It wasn't because they were in the Big East. It was because of the wealth of information about their entire season that exists for people like me -- and the selection committee -- to digest when making such decisions. And on Selection Sunday, if UC is left out of the field in place of say, Boston College, the argument that Syracuse would win the A-10 is about as meaningless as saying Fordham would finish last in the Big East.

I've been saying the same thing for a while now. THE SELECTION COMMITTEE IN NO WAY TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION CONFERENCE AFFILIATION. The only reason conference affiliation is relevant is because it obligates schools to face certain teams.

[GoMuskies]

I have to take Dow to task on one thing: I think Fordham would own DePaul.

[Xman95]

Add Mick to Huggs and Boeheim to the group of Big East coaches who pull this shit every year. Their teams are clearly on the bubble and can blame no one but themselves, so what do they do? They put down other conferences and say that the Big East deserves 12 bids or whatever. It is like clock work at the end of every damn season.

Funny, it seems Boeheim is the one guy doing this every year because his teams haven't been that good lately. Perhaps Jimmy should worry more about non-conf games (like Cleveland State going east and beating them) and quit being concerned about the overhyped conference. Honestly, I think he's the most overrated coach in college basketball.

As for mid-pack BE teams winning the A-10...they're flat wrong. Cronin's bunch would be upper mid-pack in the A-10, same for Boeheim. Look at the non-conference schedules for many of the BE teams. It's tough to claim they're so good when there aren't many great wins OOC. I'll give credit to teams like Conn, UofL, Pitt...they seem to play tough teams. Georgetown? Maybe one or two. Syracuse? Not many.

Of course, if they want all teams to play by the BE rules, everyone should schedule patsies non-conf, go into conf. with a 10-1 or 11-0 record, then "beat up on each other." The only loser in this thing would be the patsies who would enter at 1-10 or 0-11! And of course Boeheim and Cronin. But they're losers regardless of records and scheduling.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The funny thing about it is that all these people claim to have these hard schedules yet Xavier has a top 25 SOS. So we have played an overall better schedule than a lot of these teams crying from the Big East. You know how everybody was saying what a hard schedule ND has had? We have a better SOS.

[Xman95]

Trying to legitimize one's own team by bashing others is something good coaches and successful programs just don't do.

That's why Cronin and Boeheim do it...and feel they HAVE to do it.

[bobbiemcgee]

1. Schedule and do well against as many top 25 teams as you can.
2. Go to Dance.
3. Do well @ Dance
4. Win Dance someday.

End of Story.

[Juice]

More from Mick:


And Cronin told me that he believes the top teams in the Southeastern Conference would finish no better than sixth, seventh or eighth in the Big East.

For the record, Cincy has played one game against as SEC opponent this season, defeating Mississippi State by 12.

Mississippi State is 7-4 and sits in second place in the SEC West.

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/bozich/blog.html

[Masterofreality]

Wow, that's some win Mick.

Freaking Charlotte beat Mississippi State- at Mississippi State.

No props.

[X-band '01]

Maybe Mick should throw himself out of 5/3 Arena for the next few days - he's too obsessed about how the A-10 and the SEC would fare in the Big East and not worrying about his own team.

[boozehound]

So now the SEC sucks too?

I have an idea, how about you win some games in your conference instead of trying to rationalize why you aren't winning. Next he will be saying that UNC would finish middle of the pack in the Big East.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

So now the SEC sucks too?

I have an idea, how about you win some games in your conference instead of trying to rationalize why you aren't winning. Next he will be saying that UNC would finish middle of the pack in the Big East.

haha duke/unc/ucla/Michigan state/Purdue/Wake Forest would all finish 6th or below in big east according to him...

I believe in the RPI and other categories, the Big 10 and ACC are AHEAD of the Big East. Granted there are more teams in big east and the bottom 5 stink in that conference, but still, theres an argument to be made about the best conference in america.

[Bmuskie]

"You can't tell me that Syracuse would not win the Mid Atlantic Athletic Conference!" - Mick Cronin

[AdamtheFlyer]

Cronin is becoming the Lou Holtz of basketball.

"Rutgers? We can't beat Rutgers! You can't tell me Rutgers wouldn't win the ACC."

[Smails]

Cronin is becoming the Lou Holtz of basketball.

"Rutgers? We can't beat Rutgers! You can't tell me Rutgers wouldn't win the ACC."

Lay off Lou....peckerhead. (A-10 board reference for those about to throw a fit)

[wkrq59]

More from Mick:
http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/bozich/blog.html

FYI, what team leads the SEC West? LSU, a team Xavier beat handily on their own floor! I believe LSU has also won the overall SEC title.
Now, Miss. St. is in 2d in the SEC West. Big Whoop.
Remember lies, damned lies and statistics---It's absolutely irrelevant to say your team
deserves an NCAA bid because it played in a good league. Lil Mick admitted he "scheduled down OOC ...to give his kids a chance to gain confidence.
Worry not, a loss to West Virginia or Syracuse and a letdown loss to eigher USF or Seton Hall wipes out any talk of NCAA and maybe even NIT.:D

[XU 87]

UC is in the NIT. And they need to beat either WVU or Syracuse and win the other two. If they do that, and win a game in the Big East tourney, they have a pretty good shot at getting in the NCAA.

I would say the WVU game is probably their make or break game. Lose that and then they have to win at Syracuse, which is unlikely.

As for Cronin, he should shut his mouth, particularly since X beat his team by 10 on their floor. What he said would be equivalent to Sean saying, "Temple deserves to be in the tourney over UC. We played them both and Temple is better."
Even if Sean believed that, he shouldn't and wouldn't say it.