The Fraud exposed by SucKS.

[Masterofreality]

Maybe now the B-Espn empty talking heads will finally shut the hell up about the Biting Firish. Taken to school by the school in Clifton and giving up over 90 points in the process.

Hey Domers. When you don't play anybody but one Top 100 team in the non-conference- and the one you did play is a borderline fraud as well- you will eventually get exposed as sucking. You are now officially off the bubble. Some talent, but zero depth. Those 3 point shots that fell in November with fresher legs ain't fallling now and even Man Mountain Harangody can't play 1 on 5. Your defense is a sieve.

Nice effort by UC, but one that could easily be predicted. Oh, man. How much slobber will Doc, and all the radio blabbermouths in Cincinnati throw over the kitties tomorrow? Probably tons, but unwarrented. Show me that kind of win over UConn and maybe I'll give a prop. Zero props for beating a sham-wow media creation.

[coasterville95]

The question is - can they count is as a neutral site win, because that helps their RPI, which in turn helps our RPI

[XUOWNSUC]

It's not just B-Espn either - Seth Davis can't get off of the Irish kool-aid either. Check out this quote from the link below:

"I know what the RPI data says, but I find it hard to believe that by Selection Sunday, Notre Dame won't be one of the top 34 at-large teams in the country. That said, a win at UCLA on Saturday would go a long, long way."

Someone tell Seth that ND needs to actually win A game between now and the NCAA tourney. How many in a row have they lost now? 5? I bet they still get a vote from somebody in the coaches poll.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/seth_davis/02/03/hoop.thoughts/index.html

[Juice]

No, that is a home game.

Hats off to UC beating Georgetown and ND, which are both teams that they should not have technically beat, but when all is said and done, I don't think those wins will look as good as they do now.

[jdm2000]

Hey Domers. When you don't play anybody but one Top 100 team in the non-conference- and the one you did play is a borderline fraud as well- you will eventually get exposed as sucking.

MOR, I agree with you that the Irish have been exposed and are not a tourney team (at least as of now). But I think they played at least three top 100 teams in the non-con--they beat Texas and lost to both UNC and Ohio St.

[XUOWNSUC]

MOR, I agree with you that the Irish have been exposed and are not a tourney team (at least as of now). But I think they played at least three top 100 teams in the non-con--they beat Texas and lost to both UNC and Ohio St.

If you look at the link I posted above, ND had the 284th strongest non-conference schedule. Yes they played Texas, UNC, & osu, but they also played FOUR teams that had a RPI below 300.

[PM Thor]

I went to the game. It hurt to watch this travishamockery.

UC is getting their defense together, that is for sure, but Notre Dame? They looked horrible in every aspect on the floor. They couldn't get anything running offensively, and relied on Harangody way, way too much. No one else did anything worth mentioning.

Defensively they sucked. Let me put that out there again. SUCKED. They made a very predictable UC "Hey give it to Vaughn and get out of the way" offense look good. Their full court press was terrible, just terrible. It did not work once. Not once.

Their half time adjustments were non existent, nothing changed, and UC took advantage of it. I will say that Gates for UC did a top notch job vs Harongody, and he is going to be very, very good eventually.

As for the refs, just wow. I thought I saw some bad games called in the A10. These guys were horrific. There was an instance where a UC player quite literally threw a Domer to the ground, another Domer ran up and full on shoved the UC guy, and somehow there was no call against UC but a T vs ND. It was laughable. Harangody was getting pounded alot, with blatant calls (at least to me, and I don't give a crap really either way) but nothing was getting called.

Problem for ND is that after Harangody, there is nothing there. A one hit wonder, and they are falling apart. A very average UC team showed that tonight. Notre Dame is done. NIT.

I HATE dayton.

[pizza delivery]

Gates looks bigger than I thought, he's an NBAer if he goes to XU, too bad!

[AdamtheFlyer]

Have you seen ND's schedule? If they can't beat Louisville at home next week, they probably will finish under .500.

[muskiegirl9]

Have you seen ND's schedule? If they can't beat Louisville at home next week, they probably will finish under .500.

Louisville is no slouch. They should beat the hell out of ND

[MuskieMark]

Brey needs to be fired, he is a pretty decent recruited but he cannot coach. They never make any half time adjustments whatsoever and he refused to ever go to the bench. firemikebrey.com needs some adjusting

[sirthought]

Well, ND did go to the bench. They played 8 men. Pretty typical for most teams. Ayers scored 14 off the bench. The referees were pretty bad, but I don't think they really helped UC.

Mick Cronin has had a great defensive plan the past two games and the guys have really worked hard to move forward in a positive way. The offense was better than usual tonight and hopefully we see more of that. No they aren't Top 25, but they may be Top 50 by the end of February.

If they can go 4-4 in their last 8 games, and probably win one game in the BEast tournament, then that'll earn an at large bid. I think they are in if they go 5-3 in the final stretch. It'll be exciting to see if they can pull it off.

Either way, I believe tonight's win has put them into the N.I.T. at the very least. When you think about where they were the past two years, that is a strong step in the right direction.

http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/9d108810-ee4a-4e25-8b75-a01414ca1a08.jpg

XU, on the other hand, will likely win out. Any losses from here on out will be surprising.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Well, ND did go to the bench. They played 8 men. Pretty typical for most teams. Ayers scored 14 off the bench. The referees were pretty bad, but I don't think they really helped UC.

Mick Cronin has had a great defensive plan the past two games and the guys have really worked hard to move forward in a positive way. The offense was better than usual tonight and hopefully we see more of that. No they aren't Top 25, but they may be Top 50 by the end of February.

If they can go 4-4 in their last 8 games, and probably win one game in the BEast tournament, then that'll earn an at large bid. I think they are in if they go 5-3 in the final stretch. It'll be exciting to see if they can pull it off.

Either way, I believe tonight's win has put them into the N.I.T. at the very least. When you think about where they were the past two years, that is a strong step in the right direction.

http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/9d108810-ee4a-4e25-8b75-a01414ca1a08.jpg

XU, on the other hand, will likely win out. Any losses from here on out will be surprising.

I wouldnt say its likely we win out. We will be favored in every game but chances are that there will be a slip up along the way.

[Masterofreality]

MOR, I agree with you that the Irish have been exposed and are not a tourney team (at least as of now). But I think they played at least three top 100 teams in the non-con--they beat Texas and lost to both UNC and Ohio St.

True 'dat, jdm. My bad. I meant to say when you beat only one team in the Top 100. I knew about the NC and Oh-ho-ho State games. They were temporarily washed away with Smithwicks.

[pickledpigsfeet]

http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/9d108810-ee4a-4e25-8b75-a01414ca1a08.jpg



Wow, he looks mad enough to berate a cab driver.

[jdm2000]

Because it was caused by Smithwick's, the washing away is acceptable!

[Cheesehead]

Wow, he looks mad enough to berate a cab driver.

He looks like that troll from Lord of the Rings.

I do like the cuff links and the monogrammed sleeve. I guess Mick is making some jack.

[DC Muskie]

"I know what the RPI data says, but I find it hard to believe that by Selection Sunday, Notre Dame won't be one of the top 34 at-large teams in the country. That said, a win at UCLA on Saturday would go a long, long way."

Someone tell Seth that ND needs to actually win A game between now and the NCAA tourney. How many in a row have they lost now? 5? I bet they still get a vote from somebody in the coaches poll.

This is something that is interesting.

Should ND get into the tournament with over Texas in November or Dayton with a big win over Marquette?

Seriously, ND has lost to everyone. How Seth Davis can type that ND will be one of the top 34 at large is downright laguhable.

You have to win games Seth. You don't automatically get into the dance, the day they announce the schedule, which is pretty much Mr. Knobber is saying. Since the schedule came out, it doesn't matter what the actual results are, ND is a top 34 at large team, simply because they exsist.

[XU05and07]

He looks like that troll from Lord of the Rings.

I do like the cuff links and the monogrammed sleeve. I guess Mick is making some jack.

Is that a monogram or does it say "right" and "left" so he can remember which is which?

[Frank D.]

This is something that is interesting.

Should ND get into the tournament with over Texas in November or Dayton with a big win over Marquette?

Seriously, ND has lost to everyone. How Seth Davis can type that ND will be one of the top 34 at large is downright laguhable.

You have to win games Seth. You don't automatically get into the dance, the day they announce the schedule, which is pretty much Mr. Knobber is saying. Since the schedule came out, it doesn't matter what the actual results are, ND is a top 34 at large team, simply because they exsist.

Good point, DC, and one I have tried to make in the past. Just because everyone thought you were going to be good, and you have lost to some tough teams, does not mean you are actually good - you have to win games.

It goes back to the quote Bilas had on another thread talking about how mid-majors are given a break by the selection committee. This is simply not true. It's not so much the selection committee giving mid-majors a break, as it is the selection committee not getting caught up in a perception on how good a team is due to the conference they play in or how highly they were ranked at one time - they only look at the numbers (who have you beat, etc.).

[_LH]

Sir,

I would love it but I don't see XU winning out.

Also, UC almost needs to win out in the regular season to get an at large bid. They have only 14 wins right now as far as the committee is concerned because they played a DII school in the OOC.

UC needs 23 wins on Selection Sunday to get an at large bid.

[DC Muskie]

It goes back to the quote Bilas had on another thread talking about how mid-majors are given a break by the selection committee. This is simply not true. It's not so much the selection committee giving mid-majors a break, as it is the selection committee not getting caught up in a perception on how good a team is due to the conference they play in or how highly they were ranked at one time - they only look at the numbers (who have you beat, etc.).

Exactly. Winning three games against G-Town (who I like) Seton Hall and DePaul is not a good indictator that you are one of the best 34 at large teams in the country. They have three more away games in conference. At West Virginia, Providence and UConn. Can you tell me they are going to win? Ken Pom has them projected at 7-11 in the conference, and you are going to tell me that is better then some Mid-Majors?

[sirthought]

Sir,

I would love it but I don't see XU winning out.

Also, UC almost needs to win out in the regular season to get an at large bid. They have only 14 wins right now as far as the committee is concerned because they played a DII school in the OOC.

UC needs 23 wins on Selection Sunday to get an at large bid.

I guess we'll see. I don't think UC needs to win out. 5-4 or 4-4 could still do it for them.
If they play like they did last night anything could happen.

As for XU, I'm concerned about point guard, so I'm anxious for tonight's game.

[_LH]

5-4 would put them at 19-11 with 0 quality wins. Sorry, no bid for you.

You have to figure there will be upsets in the smaller conferences which will take bids away from real bubble teams so there is really no chance UC makes it without winning out.

[PMI]

19-11 won't get them in but they can afford to drop at least a game and still possibly make the tournament. Declaring that they must win out means that winning out would get them a berth in a best case scenario, meaning a bunch of other things would happen too. That is not the case. If they go 22-8 then there are plenty of things that could happen still that would end up in UC getting a bid. 22-8 in the Big East, like it or not, will get you sucked off by the NCAA (as well as ESPN, etc.)

So simply put, saying that UC has to win out in order to make the tournament is inaccurate, and you are incorrect. What I'm getting at is, the next several posts Kathy Bates puts in this thread defending his original point, are going to be wrong. I'm not a prophet, just an accurate predictor of the foreseen future.

[X-band '01]

5-4 would put them at 19-11 with 0 quality wins. Sorry, no bid for you.

You have to figure there will be upsets in the smaller conferences which will take bids away from real bubble teams so there is really no chance UC makes it without winning out.

That's only if they're good enough to be an at-large team, though. Gonzaga and St. Mary's are probably going to make the WCC a 2-bid conference regardless, but if Davidson and Butler lose early, someone's losing an at-large.

[MuskieCinci]

Patrick Mills got injured, so St. Mary's is definitely not a shoo in.

[_LH]

As usual PMI, you are wrong. Winning out the regular season would give UC 23 wins. They need 23 wins on Selection Sunday with their OOC to get an at large bid. End of story.

The future of this thread will actually be PMI trying to prove me wrong, which he has continuously failed to do and will fail to do once again.

[Juice]

I just thought about this. Say that ND and UC changed their resumes with each other. Would most "analysts" consider ND a tournament team with UC's record? I am think they would just because of their preseason ranking and their name.

I am not saying UC should be in the tournament at all, I am just pointing out some of the bias that analysts have for teams that were supposed to be good at the beginning of the year.

[_LH]

That was what Syracuse thought the last two years. The committee has not been fooled by the BE for years and will not be fooled by ND or UC this year. UC can't simply win against the bottom third of the BE, get to 19 or 20 wins and expect an at large bid.

[sirthought]

UC can't simply win against the bottom third of the BE, get to 19 or 20 wins and expect an at large bid.

Here's where I think you are wrong. I understand your argument and don't deny that they have a large hill to climb, but the window of opportunity is open wider than you believe.

The quality of the Big East is just too high to ignore those wins if they get them. No matter how much you want to slam Notre Dame, Seton Hall, Georgetown, etc. they all are Top 100 RPI teams that have something which raises UC's RPI to a level that the committee won't ignore. And even potential losses at Pitt and Louisville will help them.

I think there will be enough bids available for them to get in. Teams projected now like Penn State, BYU, Georgetown, St. Mary's... all of those 11 and 12 seeds have a really good chance of falling out and their records are the same or worse than UC's.

I know I won't change your mind. And really it's pointless unless they win some more and get close to 19 or 20. Like I said, we'll just have to see how it plays out.

[_LH]

Sir,

Where you are wrong is that UC can get to 20 wins without beating anyone that will catch the committees eyes. I actually predicted 20 wins for UC before the season as there are enough crappy BE teams to get 8 wins and really beat no one. UC will need at least 23 wins on Selection Sunday to get an at large bid. They are not even close to being a bubble team and guess what, not all bubble teams make it.

[_LH]

There are 32 at large bids. Every media outlet has all 32 accounted for as we sit today so for UC to get one of the last bids, they have to pass by one or more of the 32 spots already projected.

Tell me which teams UC passes by going 4-4?

You then also have to factor in some of the 32 bids going to a Gonzaga or Butler if San Diego or Wright St. wins their leagues.

Basically, UC at 18-20 wins will not be looked at.

[sirthought]

I already mentioned which teams I think they can potentially pass in the field of 64. Or did you mean in the Big East? Probably only Providence, moving from 8 to 7. But that'll work. They are already ahead of West Virginia in conference standings, who are projected as an 8 seed right now.

I don't see Butler or Gonzaga losing their conference, but anything could happen. The other teams that would fall into that situation are Siena (no other potential bids) and Utah (San Diego St will choke and BYU will fall out by end of Feb).

In situations where some conferences butcher each other's teams at this time of year will actually help UC this time out.
- Kentucky could fall out, with the SEC only getting four in (FL, TN, SC, and LSU).
- ACC is much harder to call right now, but Va.Tech is now projected as a 10 seed and they have a similar resume as UC. FL St. may still get in, but their last stretch is difficult.
- Big 10 is eating itself with the lower teams beating the higher teams now. Penn St. will fall out. Illinois may just hang on. Ohio State is in the same position as UC.

I just believe there are plenty of opportunities to pass teams now projected as at large. Again, I know its still a big stretch, but I think it could happen that way. UC is in the same boat as a lot of teams, but they also have a very good chance at .500 or better for their last stretch and that counts.

[_LH]

There will be upsets in the conference tourmanent but even if they are not you are assuming UC finishes 4-4 but failed to project the teams you think UC can bypass how they will finish. Considering UC lost twice to Providence, it is unlikely for UC to pass them up.

[PMI]

I'd like to apologize to everyone for opening up the floodgates again. Let's let the sleeping dog "lie." We won't be able to convince Kathy she isn't a glass of orange juice if she believes she is.

[_LH]

PMI,

So we should just all agree with your nonsense? Makes sense.

[XU05and07]

I just thought about this. Say that ND and UC changed their resumes with each other. Would most "analysts" consider ND a tournament team with UC's record? I am think they would just because of their preseason ranking and their name.

I am not saying UC should be in the tournament at all, I am just pointing out some of the bias that analysts have for teams that were supposed to be good at the beginning of the year.

The "analysts" would think that ND was a tournament team with UC's record. I think UC would rather have UC's record than ND's.

UC
15-8 (5-5)

ND
12-9 (3-7)

[sirthought]

I'd like to apologize to everyone for opening up the floodgates again. Let's let the sleeping dog "lie." We won't be able to convince Kathy she isn't a glass of orange juice if she believes she is.

PMI.. What the hell are you talking about? If you're going to call someone out, be direct.
And you didn't start this thread anyhow, so how did you open anything? No one is lying. It's just a debate about what could happen.


_LH,
UC could pass Providence based on total conference wins and higher RPI. Only the Big East tourney champ gets an automatic bid, so the fact that Providence beat UC twice may mean nothing at the end of the season for the NCAAs. I guess I'm not following your bypass question, whether you mean in conference or in general to the at large bids. Either way I think I've made my case of how I think the possibility is there.

[DiamondDave]

[QUOTE=Masterofreality;92092]Maybe now the B-Espn empty talking heads will finally shut the hell up about the Biting Firish. Taken to school by the school in Clifton and giving up over 90 points in the process.

It's impossible to read your posts because you have lame nicknames for everything. Biting Firish? George Washing Machine? What in god's name are you talking about?

[PMI]

PMI.. What the hell are you talking about? If you're going to call someone out, be direct.
And you didn't start this thread anyhow, so how did you open anything? No one is lying. It's just a debate about what could happen.



Don't be late to the movie and try to figure out what's going on in the middle.

[Masterofreality]

[QUOTE=Masterofreality;92092]Maybe now the B-Espn empty talking heads will finally shut the hell up about the Biting Firish. Taken to school by the school in Clifton and giving up over 90 points in the process.

It's impossible to read your posts because you have lame nicknames for everything. Biting Firish? George Washing Machine? What in god's name are you talking about?

It's called poetic license.

If you don't like it, bite me.