The Gone-Zaga Infatuation

[Masterofreality]

This week's poll that comes out on Monday will be very interesting for a number of reasons, not the least of which is to see where Xavier, Oh-ho-ho State and Gonzaga settle. We may have had an indication already, however, about how Gone-Zaga is viewed by the latest ESPN "Power Rankings". Now, admittedly, those "P.R.'s" are not a poll, but it fuels the thought of Zag-infatuation- largely unearned, especially when Xavier is considered in a similar scenario. Please peruse the following comparison between the 2007-2008 Xavier Musketeers at this point last year, and the 2008-2009 Gone-Zaga Zags at this point now:

07-08 Xavier previous year finish- Loss in NCAA second round to National Runner-Up.
08-09 Zaga previous year finish- Loss in NCAA first round to Elite 8 team.
(Noted to set credibility for following year)


07-08 Xavier Record 8-3
08-09 Zaga Record- 7-3-vs D-1. 8-3 overall.

07-08 Xavier Record vs Top 50- 3-1
08-09 Zaga Record vs Top 50- 3-1

07-08 Xavier Record vs Top 100- 4-3
08-09 Zaga Record vs Top 100- 3-3

07-08 Xavier Opp. Avg. RPI- 103 (2 opps above 200 RPI, 7 opps in Top 100)
08-09 Zaga Opp. Avg. RPI- 105 (D-2- Montana St. Billings not rankable) (2 opps above 200 RPI, 6 opps in Top 100)

07-08 Xavier Ranking Week 6 (12/17/07)- AP- No Ranking, ESPN- 24th , (after Az. St. loss)
08-09 Zaga Ranking Week 6 (12/22/08)- AP- 7th, ESPN- 7th (after UConn loss)

07-08 Xavier Ranking Week 7 (12/24/07)- AP- No Ranking, ESPN- No Ranking(after Tenn. loss)
08-09 Zaga Ranking Week 7 (12/29/08)- ?, but 15 in ESPN "Power Rankings". (after Portland St. loss)

Ok, we'll see where Gone-Zaga winds up in this week's polls, but I doubt they'll fall out completely like Xavier was dissed last year.

Here's the point of this exercise. Last year's Xavier team, schedule and results are almost identical to Gone-Zaga this year with the exception that Xavier had a better finish to the previous year, which should have given more cred in the bank. Xavier also had many significant players back last year like Gonzaga has this year. The difference is that last year's Xavier team was not given enough credit for their wins against Indiana, Kent, Creighton and Cincinnati early while being trashed for losing to #2 RPI Tennessee and good Arizona State. XU was not even ranked at all after losing to Tennessee. Meanwhile, Gone-zaga has been given all kinds of credit for beating Ok. State, Maryland, Tennessee who had similar RPI's to Xavier's wins last year (arguably, Indiana was better than any of Zaga's wins this year) and the Zags have not been dissed much for losing to Arizona, (with a similar RPI to AZ. St. last year) and UConn (who is similar to last year's Tennessee).

If the same criteria is used in this weeks rating of Gonzaga that was used for Xavier last year, Gonzaga should fall to about 30th in votes. Somehow, I doubt that will happen.

[GuyFawkes38]

This is a very good post by MOR.

Regardless, there will be some holier than thou posters responding to this by ranting, "We are better than this. Lets focus on how awesome of a program X is and not worry about Gonzaga."

Such posters are really silly. It's more than worth pointing out that Gonzaga often receives a free ride by the press.

I think it will only be a matter of time before there will be an anti-Gonzaga backlash.

[Fireball]

Here's the thing...Gonzaga made the splash a few of years ago and then they followed up that season with another run in March. Now they are the media darlings. Until they fall off the scene by havinga losing season or two, they will remain that way.

Is it irritating? Yeah. Does it bother me as a Xavier fan? Not really.

X is in the national spotlight, which I'm happy for. It's much deserved for a program like ours that has accomplished a lot over the past 25 years. I also want people to root FOR us, though. If Xavier were shoved down the nation's throats like Gonzaga over the past couple of years, people would be annoyed and would root AGAINST us, like a lot of people do for Gonzaga. We have the national respect, I think, but we are not a national annoyance like Gonzaga.

...and I'm OK with that.

[The Artist]

Apparently Gonzaga is the new Dayton of this board.

[Masterofreality]

Apparently Gonzaga is the new Dayton of this board.

Naw, I'm just posting a few interesting facts to show and tell.

The Zagafatuation is fascinating to me.

[UCGRAD4X]

There is a concensus here that Xavier is a program on the rise. It is natural to be anxious and look to what that might be like. I don't think it is inappropriate to look to Gonzaga as a litmus of where we want Xavier to be in the minds of the media - who, in the next breath, we rail against as ignorant and biased.

What concerns me most is that Xavier is not yet at the point where their losses are excused, and whre the program is considered sound despite on-court evidence to the contrary.

Think about how many on this board have wailed and gnashed their teeth after the last two losses. X has gone, in the minds of their most faithful, from Elite to A-Long-Way-to-Go.

If we are ready to 'excuse' Xavier's losses...how can we expect ignorant and biases outsiders to?

In that sense, Gonzaga is where we want to be, briefly, and move on.

[The Artist]

Naw, I'm just posting a few interesting facts to show and tell.

The Zagafatuation is fascinating to me.

And that's fine, it's just that this is the third thread about Gonzaga in the past week.

[waggy]

Gonzaga to Xavier Fan: "We own you."
Xavier Fan: "Thank you, may I have another?"

[MHettel]

Simple answer.

Gonzaga has their entire starting 5 back, including: Pargo, who may have been an NBA first rounder last year and will be one this year. Hytvelt, who is basically their version of Doellman. Austin Daye, who is a really talented versatile forward kind that was great as a freshman, and is expected to be a future lottery pick. Micah Brand as a senior, he was a former Kansas player. And Matt Boldin, a physical SG that is a bit of mix between justin cage and Chris Monroe. ALL 5 guys back. Hytvelt missed part of last year too, probably meaning they achieved a bit less than they might have otherwise.

XU, by contrast was coming into the 07-08 season WITHOUT Doellman, Cage, and Cole. Coming back were: Lavendar, who played OK in his first season at XU and still hadn't blossomed as a college PG. Burrell, who's decision making and shooting had deteriorated over 3 years, and he had shown little leadership or that defensive intensity so far. Brown, who was a productive returning soph that was a nice XU contributor....but not yet the player he has become. Duncan, who had never really started and was somtly viewed as a guy with the NBA body that just didn't like physical play, and was content to catch and shoot. Jason Love came off a dissapointing freshman year (injuries), and hadn't really shown promise. BJ Raymond had improved as a soph, but never really had the look of a sniper and deadeye shooter he became as a jr. CJ Anderson was an unknown, transferrring from a lower program. Dante Jackson was the lone freshman. We had no apparent option for backup PG.

It pretty easy to see why the Zags came into the season with so much pomp and hype.

Frankly, I think you already realize this, but act like it's not there. You NEED to feel slighted.

This program should be beyond that.

Gonzaga is good. they have been around the top 10 for a decade. Just click on any random AP poll in the archives, and you'll see . they have earned their spot in the NCAA hierarchy.

XU has too, and our only concern should be winning and improving.

[Masterofreality]

Gonzaga is good. they have been around the top 10 for a decade. Just click on any random AP poll in the archives, and you'll see . they have earned their spot in the NCAA hierarchy.

XU has too, and our only concern should be winning and improving.


Sure seems like Xavier has to do a lot more to "earn" the spot than zaga does.