Gonzaga, the Media Darling?

[MuskiePimp23]

I am not going to go on my rant again about Gonzaga being a media darling, but I thought from looking at the polls today that we have 1 loss against a Top 5 team, albeit we did not show up for the game and put on a terrible effort. Gonzaga lost in OT to another Top 5 team at about the equivalent of Xavier playing duke at US Bank Arena, as they played UConn in Seattle. Games are not won in polls, but I find it kind of funny that 2 loss Gonzaga stays even in one poll, and actually moved up to 8th in the AP with a loss...We have the 4th toughest RPI schedule and Gonzaga has the 3rd toughest schedule...Missouri is now ranked in the AP and just outside the USAToday poll...I think we should have fallen to around 12 or 13, but why in the world do the Zags get a pass?

They lost to Arizona for crying out loud. The same Arizona team that has 3 losses, one at Home to a very average UAB team, an okay Texas A&M team, and an okay UNLV team...Two of these teams uc beat rather handily...I just feel and believe that once again Gonzaga is getting more respect than us and I think it is a joke...

The bottom line, win games and respect and recognition will come, but this just makes me mad...Thoughts?

[MuskiePimp23]

I should have said Gonzaga moved up from 8th in the AP to 7th...They stayed the same in the USA Today poll.

[The Artist]

My thoughts are that if you lose to the #2 team in OT, chances are you're about the #8 team.

[MuskiePimp23]

Yes, they lost to the #2 team in OT, playing on a "neutral" floor in Seattle, so that is the equivalent almost of Xavier playing at US Bank Arena...What about the loss to a 3 loss very average Arizona team? That is what I can't get over is how they get a pass on that.

[MuskiePimp23]

uc beat UNLV by 2 so not rather handily, but the bottom line is UNLV lost to uc...So my point is that Arizona's 3 losses at this point to UNLV, UAB, and Texas A&M are not bad losses, but Gonzaga lost to an average Arizona team. That to me is not the sign of a Top 10 team...They have also lost twice in a week and a half and have falled only 3-4 spots in the respective polls.

[The Artist]

Gonzaga was something like #4 when they lost @ AZ. They dropped to #8, which was about right. They then lost to #2 in overtime. Combine that with the fact that teams ranked 5, 7, 9, and 11 lost, they stayed about where they were.

I'm not seeing the problem.

[GuyFawkes38]

I am not going to go on my rant again about Gonzaga being a media darling, but I thought from looking at the polls today that we have 1 loss against a Top 5 team, albeit we did not show up for the game and put on a terrible effort. Gonzaga lost in OT to another Top 5 team at about the equivalent of Xavier playing duke at US Bank Arena, as they played UConn in Seattle. Games are not won in polls, but I find it kind of funny that 2 loss Gonzaga stays even in one poll, and actually moved up to 8th in the AP with a loss...We have the 4th toughest RPI schedule and Gonzaga has the 3rd toughest schedule...Missouri is now ranked in the AP and just outside the USAToday poll...I think we should have fallen to around 12 or 13, but why in the world do the Zags get a pass?

They lost to Arizona for crying out loud. The same Arizona team that has 3 losses, one at Home to a very average UAB team, an okay Texas A&M team, and an okay UNLV team...Two of these teams uc beat rather handily...I just feel and believe that once again Gonzaga is getting more respect than us and I think it is a joke...

The bottom line, win games and respect and recognition will come, but this just makes me mad...Thoughts?

I completely agree.

The sad thing is that I've noticed people on this board seem to give Gonzaga a break over Xavier (I've read The Artist explanation a couple time. Gonzaga's lost twice!!!!! Who cares how. They've lost twice!!!!!)

It's a strange phenomenon.

[XU 87]

Gonzaga was something like #4 when they lost @ AZ. They dropped to #8, which was about right. They then lost to #2 in overtime. Combine that with the fact that teams ranked 5, 7, 9, and 11 lost, they stayed about where they were.

I'm not seeing the problem.

Me neither. Gonzaga lost in a great game against a national championship contender. On the other X was down by 31 at halftime. Hence, X dropped like a rock in the polls.

Personally, I'm not concerned about where Gonzaga is ranked. If anything, I hope they stay up there.

[GuyFawkes38]

Me neither. Gonzaga lost in a great game against a national championship contender. On the other X was down by 31 at halftime. Hence, X dropped like a rock in the polls.

Personally, I'm not concerned about where Gonzaga is ranked. If anything, I hope they stay up there.

Gonzaga basically had a home game against Uconn. Unconn had to play 3 time zones away in a hostile crowd. I'm not impressed.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Yes, they lost to the #2 team in OT, playing on a "neutral" floor in Seattle, so that is the equivalent almost of Xavier playing at US Bank Arena...What about the loss to a 3 loss very average Arizona team? That is what I can't get over is how they get a pass on that.

More like the equivalent of Xavier playing last year's UCLA team in Cleveland. Spokane and Seattle pretty literally could not be further apart and still be in the same state.

The loss to Arizona was on in Phoenix, so by your own logic, it shouldn't be bad. Gonzaga also beat Maryland and Tennessee in back to back games in Orlando, which is all the way across the country for them. They've played a very tough schedule, and despite only being one spot higher in the SOS, I'd say it's decidedly more tough than Xavier. That's why they're still that high.

X dropped less than I thought they would. You guys still have mucho respect from the voters.

[Juice]

Me neither. Gonzaga lost in a great game against a national championship contender. On the other X was down by 31 at halftime. Hence, X dropped like a rock in the polls.

Personally, I'm not concerned about where Gonzaga is ranked. If anything, I hope they stay up there.

If you want to make that argument, I can agree with it, but how do you explain their first loss to Arizona?

I think most people have a problem with them losing two games and not dropping far compared to X losing its first game and dropping much farther. I think X should have dropped to where it did, but I do not see how Gonzaga did not drop much more as well. It is almost like the voters rewarded them for playing "tough" with Uconn.

[vee4xu]

X has to take care of their own business. Gonzaga is not on our schedule, so X need to focus on what they can control. That is playing every game on their schedule and seeing where they stand on Selection Sunday. Then we can compare where X is to every other team, including Gonzaga.

[MuskiePimp23]

More like the equivalent of Xavier playing last year's UCLA team in Cleveland. Spokane and Seattle pretty literally could not be further apart and still be in the same state.

The loss to Arizona was on in Phoenix, so by your own logic, it shouldn't be bad. Gonzaga also beat Maryland and Tennessee in back to back games in Orlando, which is all the way across the country for them. They've played a very tough schedule, and despite only being one spot higher in the SOS, I'd say it's decidedly more tough than Xavier. That's why they're still that high.

X dropped less than I thought they would. You guys still have mucho respect from the voters.

I know Seattle is not Spokane, but Gonzaga has a lot of fan support in that Arena simply because they are the only small, Private school on the West Coast that has really done anything in the past 10 years...Xavier is also a very small school, and they would have a good crowd in Cleveland if they played UConn or Duke, but I am saying the amount of people in the crowd was about the same as X playing at US Bank Arena as an example of it being a "neutral" site game...

I disagree with you wholeheartedly in that I don't think Maryland will even go 6-10 in the ACC and that Va Tech is a much better ACC team than what Maryland will wind up being...I think Va Tech will make the tourney and Maryland will be lucky to be in the NIT. We also beat a pretty good Missouri team, we beat Memphis, we won at uc...Tennessee got worked by Temple and just squeaked one out against...5-4 Belmont...This is not last year's Tennessee...I would say duke and UConn are on the same level, but we were more of an "away" game than duke and Gonzage was more of a "home" game for them...The bottom line is Gonzaga does not impress me and they have lost twice...We played bad and lost once and fell a lot further than them...They should not get the same kind of pass.

[The Artist]

MuskiePimp, how about you provide us with 8 teams that you feel should be ranked higher than Gonzaga.

[XU 87]

Gonzaga basically had a home game against Uconn. Unconn had to play 3 time zones away in a hostile crowd. I'm not impressed.

As others have pointed out, playing in Seattle is not a Gonzaga home game. IF X played in Cleveland, would you consider that a home game?

[XU 87]

they have lost twice...We played bad and lost once and fell a lot further than them...They should not get the same kind of pass.

The only difference is that Gonzaga went to OT against the #2 team in the country. X was down by 31 at half to the #6 team. That's why X dropped so far.

Had the tables been turned, Gonzaga would have dropped much farther.

[MuskiePimp23]

MuskiePimp, how about you provide us with 8 teams that you feel should be ranked higher than Gonzaga.

I'll do better and give you my Top 10

1) UNC
2) Pitt
3) Oklahoma
4) UConn
5) Duke
6) Wake Forest
7) Syracuse
8) Notre Dame
9) Texas
10) Georgetown

[icecold]

As others have pointed out, playing in Seattle is not a Gonzaga home game. IF X played in Cleveland, would you consider that a home game?

Did you see the game? It might as well of been a home game. They even had a full student section behind one of the baskets.

Also, like 85% of the state lives in the Seattle area, so all of their students and alumni live very close to Key Arena.

[AdamtheFlyer]

I know Seattle is not Spokane, but Gonzaga has a lot of fan support in that Arena simply because they are the only small, Private school on the West Coast that has really done anything in the past 10 years...Xavier is also a very small school, and they would have a good crowd in Cleveland if they played UConn or Duke, but I am saying the amount of people in the crowd was about the same as X playing at US Bank Arena as an example of it being a "neutral" site game...

I don't think crowd size is that big of an issue to teams used to playing in that atmosphere. UConn will play in front of 10-15,000 screaming opposing fans a dozen times this year. Gonzaga still had to either hop on a plane or ride a bus for 3-4 hours, stay in a hotel, and the like. It wasn't a home game.

It's not a knock on Xavier, a game like that just happens. But losing in OT and winning garbage time to bring the margin of defeat to 18 aren't the same thing. Gonzaga, in defeat, looked like they were very close if not equal to UConn. Xavier looked like they didn't belong against Duke, to be frank. That's going to resonate in people's minds.

Nor do rankings mean a lot right now, anyway. They'll matter in early March when seeding and at-large spots tend to mirror them. They'll change a bajillion times between now and then, it seems.

[MuskiePimp23]

The only difference is that Gonzaga went to OT against the #2 team in the country. X was down by 31 at half to the #6 team. That's why X dropped so far.

Had the tables been turned, Gonzaga would have dropped much farther.

Agree with you wholeheartedly, but let me ask you this...Would Xavier have been down 31 at halftime if they played the game at US Bank Arena, or Columbus or Cleveland for that matter?

If there are 14,000 fans in the Arena and 12,500 are X fans which is about the discrepancy in Seattle that Gonzaga had, there is no way X would have been down and lost by so much.

[MuskiePimp23]

I don't think crowd size is that big of an issue to teams used to playing in that atmosphere. UConn will play in front of 10-15,000 screaming opposing fans a dozen times this year. Gonzaga still had to either hop on a plane or ride a bus for 3-4 hours, stay in a hotel, and the like. It wasn't a home game.

It's not a knock on Xavier, a game like that just happens. But losing in OT and winning garbage time to bring the margin of defeat to 18 aren't the same thing. Nor do rankings mean a lot right now. They'll matter in early March when seeding and at-large spots tend to mirror them. They'll change a bajillion times between now and then, it seems.

I agree with everything you just said Adam except the crowd size argument...The Home Court, or Home Crowd in college Basketball is greater than any other sport...I am convinced of that...It is incredibly difficult to go into opposing arenas where it seems the crowd is very difficult to play against, the home team plays better and is more familiar with the surroundings and you usually get some calls at home...Look at duke-Michigan...duke wins by 15 on a neutral floor, then goes to Michigan and loses by 8.

[XU 87]

Agree with you wholeheartedly, but let me ask you this...Would Xavier have been down 31 at halftime if they played the game at US Bank Arena, or Columbus or Cleveland for that matter?



I don't know, nor do you. But what we do know is that one team was down by 31 at half and the other went to OT. And the team that got blown out was punished at the polls.

[The Artist]

I'll do better and give you my Top 10

1) UNC
2) Pitt
3) Oklahoma
4) UConn
5) Duke
6) Wake Forest
7) Syracuse
8) Notre Dame
9) Texas
10) Georgetown

Oooook. I no longer have to devise arguments to try to hurt your credibility.

Michigan State has 2 losses and beat Texas, where are they in your top 10? Ohio State is undefeated and beat Notre Dame in Notre Dame's home state, where are they in your top 10!? Syracuse lost to Cleveland State AT HOME.

I still don't understand what you're trying to argue. They dropped 4 spots after losing to Arizona. Do you feel they should have dropped more? I think Duke dropped less after losing to Michigan. I think Notre Dame dropped less after losing to Ohio State.

They then stayed in about the same area after losing to #2 in overtime. In that scenario, you would generally expect a team to drop maybe 2 spots. The two teams behind them were Louisville and Wake Forest. Wake Forest has one win over Baylor, and has played nobody else. If you want to say Wake Forest could have jumped them, I won't argue, but for you to act like something unreasonable is going on doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

I'm done, I don't see the point of this thread or why it's anywhere near the Xavier Men's Basketball forum.

[GuyFawkes38]

Did anyone actually watch the game. Gonzaga had their own student section (very large). That was basically a home game.

I don't know why this board has so many Gonzaga defenders. But it does.

[AdamtheFlyer]

I agree with everything you just said Adam except the crowd size argument...The Home Court, or Home Crowd in college Basketball is greater than any other sport...I am convinced of that...It is incredibly difficult to go into opposing arenas where it seems the crowd is very difficult to play against, the home team plays better and is more familiar with the surroundings and you usually get some calls at home...Look at duke-Michigan...duke wins by 15 on a neutral floor, then goes to Michigan and loses by 8.

I'm not saying it's easy, just that a team like UConn is used to it, thus negating much of the advantage (I think it's a general rule of thumb to say 3-7 points or so) to the home team, or the team with the big crowd.

[GuyFawkes38]

I'm done, I don't see the point of this thread or why it's anywhere near the Xavier Men's Basketball forum.

There's a holier than thou attitude amongst Gonzaga fans on this board.

That's fine if The Artist is a big time Gonzaga supporter. But I think we have right on this board to point out that they are overrated.

[XU 87]

I don't know why this board has so many Gonzaga defenders. But it does.

I suppose the better question would be why are some of you so concerned about where Gonzaga is ranked? When you really think about it, does it really matter? And do you think the Gonzaga board is debating Xavier's rank?

But given the choice, I'd rather see Gonzaga do well than some large state institution.

[GuyFawkes38]

I suppose the better question would be why are some of you so concerned about where Gonzaga is ranked? When you really think about it, does it really matter? And do you think the Gonzaga board is debating Xavier's rank?

But given the choice, I'd rather see Gonzaga do well than some large state institution.

I think there's a growing awareness in the College Basketball community that they don't deserve the attention they get.

It does make me content that this awareness of Gonzaga is growing. They simply don't deserve all of the praise they receive.

I guess a lot of people admire Gonzaga on this board for what they've accomplished. I don't. Bobinski doesn't.

[XU 87]

Worrying about where Gonzaga is ranked comes across as looking a little small- time, as though we're somehow looking up at Gonzaga.

We're not.

[GuyFawkes38]

Worrying about where Gonzaga is ranked comes across as looking a little small- time, as though we're somehow looking up at Gonzaga.

We're not.

I don't lose any sleep over the abnormal amount of attention Gonzaga receives from the press and ESPN.

But it's worth pointing out and pondering.

[MuskiePimp23]

Oooook. I no longer have to devise arguments to try to hurt your credibility.

Michigan State has 2 losses and beat Texas, where are they in your top 10? Ohio State is undefeated and beat Notre Dame in Notre Dame's home state, where are they in your top 10!? Syracuse lost to Cleveland State AT HOME.

I still don't understand what you're trying to argue. They dropped 4 spots after losing to Arizona. Do you feel they should have dropped more? I think Duke dropped less after losing to Michigan. I think Notre Dame dropped less after losing to Ohio State.

They then stayed in about the same area after losing to #2 in overtime. In that scenario, you would generally expect a team to drop maybe 2 spots. The two teams behind them were Louisville and Wake Forest. Wake Forest has one win over Baylor, and has played nobody else. If you want to say Wake Forest could have jumped them, I won't argue, but for you to act like something unreasonable is going on doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

I'm done, I don't see the point of this thread or why it's anywhere near the Xavier Men's Basketball forum.

Artist,
My Top 10 is based on watching these teams and indicating who I think the Top 10 are...I know Syracuse lost at home to Cleveland St, but they took it to Memphis at Memphis, something G'Town had to struggle to survive in OT on their home floor...Notre Dame also beat Texas and played UNC relatively close. Michigan St in my opinion is terrible.

Here are my thoughts, I think the Top 5 teams are UNC, Pitt, Oklahome, UConn, Duke...After that, #'s 6-15 are fairly interchangeable...My only point is why does Gonzaga ONLY fall 3-4 spots after losing 2 games in a week and a half? Louisville got blasted for losing to an undefeated Minnesota team, but Gonzaga does not get drilled for losing to...Arizona. Come on. I don't care about Gonzaga either, but I was rather disgusted that they did NOT fall in any polls, despite their loss, and actually moved up in the AP Poll. That is a joke.

[LA Muskie]

I've watched a lot of both teams this year. I love our Muskies, but Gonzaga looks like a better team to me so far. I think we've gotten a bit cocky about our record. For my money, we've looked good in about 3 games so far this season. Don't get me wrong -- I'll take the record and the accolades, and I'm happy we've pulled out some tough wins. But if we don't learn how to take care of the ball, hit some shots on the offensive end, and hit at least 70% of our free throws, we're going to lose some games we should win.

[waggy]

I don't know why this board has so many Gonzaga defenders. But it does.

What may appear as defending Gonzaga is probably just an effort to protect the X fan base from being viewed as obsessive jealous whiners. Maybe.

[xubrew]

I think there's a growing awareness in the College Basketball community that they don't deserve the attention they get.

It does make me content that this awareness of Gonzaga is growing. They simply don't deserve all of the praise they receive.

I guess a lot of people admire Gonzaga on this board for what they've accomplished. I don't. Bobinski doesn't.

what attention are you referring to?? gonzaga hasn't finished in the rankings the past two seasons, and haven't spent all that much time in the rankings during the regular season. i fail to see how a team is getting undeserved praise when they really haven't gotten any praise at all, deserved or undeserved.

their high ranking is due to their perceived potential for this particular season. arizona state didn't even make the ncaas, but began the season ranked and has been ranked the whole time. it took overtime for them to knock off iupui, and they were lucky to get it. if you're going to pick on a team for lacking credentials, why not pick on arizona state??

texas is the only team with a winning record that notre dame has managed to beat, and they barely beat them. texas just fell at home (well, in houston) to a michigan state team that someone earlier in the thread described as awful. if you're going to throw a fit about a team that's ranked higher than xavier that CLEARLY shouldn't be, it's notre dame.

i don't think this board is overrun with gonzaga defenders. people like you mindlessly attack gonzaga, and then the "gonzaga defenders" as you call them do nothing more than point out the fact that you're hyper-aware and hyper-sensative to gonzaga. seriously, every time gonzaga is ranked higher than xavier (which, quite honestly hasn't happened in awhile) someone on this board is screaming like a stuck pig. that's evidenced by the fact that people completely ignored notre dame's higher ranking and went right after gonzaga.

the very notion that gonzaga gets more respect than xavier is absurd. they don't. in the past two years, i believe they've spent about three weeks ranked higher than xavier, one of which is now....and to be fair, no objective person can say that xavier has looked better than gonzaga these past few weeks, much less this past weekend.

[GoMuskies]

I'll do better and give you my Top 10

1) UNC
2) Pitt
3) Oklahoma
4) UConn
5) Duke
6) Wake Forest
7) Syracuse
8) Notre Dame
9) Texas
10) Georgetown


Gonzaga won the Old Spice Classic that your #10 team, Georgetown, finished third in. Gonzaga has not lost at home to Cleveland State.

I actually have Gonzaga #11 in my top 25, though, so I can't really complain about your top 10. I also have Gonzaga ranked quite a few spots ahead of Xavier.

[GuyFawkes38]

what attention are you referring to?? gonzaga hasn't finished in the rankings the past two seasons, and haven't spent all that much time in the rankings during the regular season. i fail to see how a team is getting undeserved praise when they really haven't gotten any praise at all, deserved or undeserved.

their high ranking is due to their perceived potential for this particular season. arizona state didn't even make the ncaas, but began the season ranked and has been ranked the whole time. it took overtime for them to knock off iupui, and they were lucky to get it. if you're going to pick on a team for lacking credentials, why not pick on arizona state??

texas is the only team with a winning record that notre dame has managed to beat, and they barely beat them. texas just fell at home (well, in houston) to a michigan state team that someone earlier in the thread described as awful. if you're going to throw a fit about a team that's ranked higher than xavier that CLEARLY shouldn't be, it's notre dame.

i don't think this board is overrun with gonzaga defenders. people like you mindlessly attack gonzaga, and then the "gonzaga defenders" as you call them do nothing more than point out the fact that you're hyper-aware and hyper-sensative to gonzaga. seriously, every time gonzaga is ranked higher than xavier (which, quite honestly hasn't happened in awhile) someone on this board is screaming like a stuck pig. that's evidenced by the fact that people completely ignored notre dame's higher ranking and went right after gonzaga.

the very notion that gonzaga gets more respect than xavier is absurd. they don't. in the past two years, i believe they've spent about three weeks ranked higher than xavier, one of which is now....and to be fair, no objective person can say that xavier has looked better than gonzaga these past few weeks, much less this past weekend.

Listen, I'm sorry I attacked your team from Spokane.

And another thing. I can't stand it when posters ask me to back up my arguments with facts. Facts are for losers.

But in all seriousness, you have to look beyond rankings. I'm sure if you looked at the archives of newspapers and the transcripts of ESPN and CBS for the past 10 years, you'll see that Gonzaga is mentioned many more times than Xavier.

Add to that the fact that Gonzaga has been on national TV many more times than X in the past 10 years.

And then ask yourself why? Believe me, I'm not the only one asking the "why?" Bobinkski does too. And many people throughout the college basketball community are beginning to ask the "why?" too.

[Juice]

Listen, I'm sorry I attacked your team from Spokane.

And another thing. I can't stand it when posters ask me to back up my arguments with facts. Facts are for losers.

But in all seriousness, you have to look beyond rankings. I'm sure if you looked at the archives of newspapers and the transcripts of ESPN and CBS for the past 10 years, you'll see that Gonzaga is mentioned many more times than Xavier.

Add to that the fact that Gonzaga has been on national TV many more times than X in the past 10 years.

And then ask yourself why? Believe me, I'm not the only one asking the "why?" Bobinkski does too. And many people throughout the college basketball community are beginning to ask the "why?" too.

Gonzaga was on espn a ton last year, although it was at 12:00 because of the time zones, but they were still on a lot. Sportscenter will show their highlights regardless of who they play or how close the game was and will not show any X games unless X plays someone like Duke or UC or someone like that.

I am sick of Gonzaga and I think most of the attention is because they had a freak (Morrison) play for them for 4 years and it was like a county fair show. Come see the crybaby with a crappy mustache and watch him beat up on the WCC.

[xubrew]

But in all seriousness, you have to look beyond rankings. I'm sure if you looked at the archives of newspapers and the transcripts of ESPN and CBS for the past 10 years, you'll see that Gonzaga is mentioned many more times than Xavier.

for the past ten years, maybe, but not for the past two years. if you want to go back as far as ten years to the 1998-1999 season, gonzaga was in back to back to back sweet sixteens in years that xavier either didn't make the dance, or barely made it at all. they got media attention for the same reason davidson did last year, and is still getting this year. when a team that not many people have heard of explodes onto the national scene, it's newsworthy. the year george mason made the final four, you could watch sportscenter for an hour and you still wouldn't be sure who the other teams were.

gonzaga actively sought out made for tv series and games. davidson has done the same. until recently, xavier never really did. if you go back through the musketeer madness archives you'd probably find threads from fans complaining that the schedule wasn't tough enough.

in present day, xavier began the season unranked, yet rose as high #7. you complain about how gonzaga didn't fall, but fail to mention xavier's rapid ascent through the rankings. i'd say that's quite a bit of respect. we climbed through the rankings much faster than gonzaga ever has.

we have every game on either regional or national television.

we just got the crap kicked out of us, but are still ranked #12.

for the life of me i can't figure out what it is that gonzaga has that we don't. what is it that you want?? right now, present day, we have everything that they have and are regarded in the same light. i don't see what you're complaining about. the fact that we fell further in the rankings after a blowout loss than they did after a close loss seems kind of petty to me.

[The Artist]

Artist,
My Top 10 is based on watching these teams and indicating who I think the Top 10 are...I know Syracuse lost at home to Cleveland St, but they took it to Memphis at Memphis, something G'Town had to struggle to survive in OT on their home floor...Notre Dame also beat Texas and played UNC relatively close. Michigan St in my opinion is terrible.

Here are my thoughts, I think the Top 5 teams are UNC, Pitt, Oklahome, UConn, Duke...After that, #'s 6-15 are fairly interchangeable...My only point is why does Gonzaga ONLY fall 3-4 spots after losing 2 games in a week and a half? Louisville got blasted for losing to an undefeated Minnesota team, but Gonzaga does not get drilled for losing to...Arizona. Come on. I don't care about Gonzaga either, but I was rather disgusted that they did NOT fall in any polls, despite their loss, and actually moved up in the AP Poll. That is a joke.

Again, should Gonzaga have fallen further? Perhaps, but I don't think it's outrageous that they didn't. You said it perfectly, the top 5 are solid, after that, pick 'em from a hat. Thus, I have no problem if someone has the Zags at 6, and I have no problem if someone has the Zags at 15.

Every year teams lose to teams that they shouldn't. The key is separating those who do it consistently from those who do it rarely. In their loss to Arizona, the voters are apparently willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and hope it was a one-time thing. When Louisville lost to a solid, but not great Minnesota team, after losing to WKU, it unfortunately gave the voters the impression that Louisville losing to an inferior team may become a trend. I think that's the difference between the two.

For the record, I was surprised at how far Louisville dropped - Minnesota is an impossible place to play.

[Masterofreality]

For the record, I was surprised at how far Louisville dropped - Minnesota is an impossible place to play.

They played in Phoenix, not Minneapolis.

[The Artist]

They played in Phoenix, not Minneapolis.

I stand corrected then. I just saw a box score where it said Louisville @ Minnesota. Those neutral games are tricky

[MuskiePimp23]

what attention are you referring to?? gonzaga hasn't finished in the rankings the past two seasons, and haven't spent all that much time in the rankings during the regular season. i fail to see how a team is getting undeserved praise when they really haven't gotten any praise at all, deserved or undeserved.

their high ranking is due to their perceived potential for this particular season. arizona state didn't even make the ncaas, but began the season ranked and has been ranked the whole time. it took overtime for them to knock off iupui, and they were lucky to get it. if you're going to pick on a team for lacking credentials, why not pick on arizona state??

texas is the only team with a winning record that notre dame has managed to beat, and they barely beat them. texas just fell at home (well, in houston) to a michigan state team that someone earlier in the thread described as awful. if you're going to throw a fit about a team that's ranked higher than xavier that CLEARLY shouldn't be, it's notre dame.

i don't think this board is overrun with gonzaga defenders. people like you mindlessly attack gonzaga, and then the "gonzaga defenders" as you call them do nothing more than point out the fact that you're hyper-aware and hyper-sensative to gonzaga. seriously, every time gonzaga is ranked higher than xavier (which, quite honestly hasn't happened in awhile) someone on this board is screaming like a stuck pig. that's evidenced by the fact that people completely ignored notre dame's higher ranking and went right after gonzaga.

the very notion that gonzaga gets more respect than xavier is absurd. they don't. in the past two years, i believe they've spent about three weeks ranked higher than xavier, one of which is now....and to be fair, no objective person can say that xavier has looked better than gonzaga these past few weeks, much less this past weekend.

Brew, I don't know what you are looking at, but Gonzaga definitely gets more attention and recognition than Xavier...They have done less than Xavier has, yet the National Media still gives them more respect.

[xavbball]

I think its very simple...no doubt we have better post-season success and IMO a better program BUT when it comes to playing ELITE teams, Gonzaga is known for giving great fights while we are usually the hopeful upset or are on the receiving end of a blowout.