Freel for Ramon Hernandez: Deal Close

[Michigan Muskie]

The rumor mill suggests the Reds and Orioles are very close to agreeing on a trade that would send Ryan Freel and at least one prospect to Baltimore for catcher Ramon Hernandez.

I like the idea of getting something in return for Freel, particularly in a position of need, but Hernandez is a type B catcher in my opinion so I hope the Reds don't overspend by sending too good of a package. I believe the O's will be eating some of Ramon's salary, as well, if this goes through.

[MD Muskie]

word out of baltimore through vegas is that its freel and two minor league prospects for ramon hernandez. If this is true then i say thank you cincinnati because this just opened the door for Matt Weiters. This guy is the real deal.

[Michigan Muskie]

word out of baltimore through vegas is that its freel and two minor league prospects for ramon hernandez. If this is true then i say thank you cincinnati because this just opened the door for Matt Weiters. This guy is the real deal.

I don't mind the combo of Hanigan/Hernandez for 2009 - it's better than Bako/Valentin/Ross. I also don't mind seeing Freel go, but the Reds are thin at the OF position right now so I doubt the prospects are outfielders.

NOTE: I am now hearing that the deal is DONE, but finalization is pending approval of the commissioner due to more than $1 Million being exchanged. No official word on the names of the prospects, though.

Enjoy Freel - he'll play his heart out for you. Unfortunately, he may break a few bones doing it.

[XU 87]

Although I don't know much about the catcher, he appears to have a little pop in his bat. He makes around $8 million and Freel makes $4 million. Freel pretty much gets hurt every year and the Reds have a similar player in Norris Hopper.

So assuming the catcher can handle the pitchers and play a little d, I like the deal. The Reds desperately need a catcher. The only catcher currently on the roster is the 26 year old rookie who was brought up at the end of last year.

Now if we can only get a right handed outfielder with a little pop.

Does anyone have a problem with trading Homer Bailey for a decent outfielder? I don't.

[Michigan Muskie]

Although I don't know much about the catcher, he appears to have a little pop in his bat. He makes around $8 million and Freel makes $4 million. Freel pretty much gets hurt every year and the Reds have a similar player in Norris Hopper.

So assuming the catcher can handle the pitchers and play a little d, I like the deal. The Reds desperately need a catcher. The only catcher currently on the roster is the 26 year old rookie who was brought up at the end of last year.

Now if we can only get a right handed outfielder with a little pop.

Does anyone have a problem with trading Homer Bailey for a decent outfielder? I don't.

Ramon has good career numbers. It fills a need for the Reds and with Baltimore paying some of his salary, it makes good economic sense, too. This way, they have addressed one need without shelling out too much $$$ that could be used for Jermaine Dye or some other corner OF with some pop...

[Raoul Duke]

Does anyone have a problem with trading Homer Bailey for a decent outfielder? I don't.

I certainly don't have a problem with the idea of dealing him. The problem though is that his stock is so low right now, and Dye (or someone equivalent) isn't exactly a long-term solution. I guess if you look at it as a 'cut your losses' type situation, it makes sense.

[MD Muskie]

I will say that we were all very disappointed with how Hernandez played last year. Part of the belief for that is because he knew that uber-prospect matt weiters was moving up the ladder very fast. If all goes right this kid will make us forget about ramon in about three weeks. On a personal note, i fully believe everything they about weiters because i work for the Orioles AA team and we had him for the second half the season. He is the real deal.

I will say that a change of scenery will do Ramon good, especially that he is in nearing a contract year. Plus the small confines of GABP will help his numbers. However I will tell you that I think his handling of pitchers and throwing out runners are vastly overrated. He lacked a lot that last year.

[Michigan Muskie]

I will say that a change of scenery will do Ramon good, especially that he is in nearing a contract year. Plus the small confines of GABP will help his numbers. However I will tell you that I think his handling of pitchers and throwing out runners are vastly overrated. He lacked a lot that last year.

He doesn't throw out a lot of baserunners, but with the Reds' Hispanic-laden pitching staff, he may fit in well as part of that battery.

[Juice]

Hernandez is the opposite of Hannigan, which is why I am ok with this trade. Hernandez is decent/good hitting catcher, while Hannigan is known for his defense (won award for best defensive catcher in AAA last year). Hopefully Hannigan hits well this coming year and Hernandez is just a stop gap.

As far as Freel is concerned, I have never been happier to see a Reds player get traded than him. I would have liked to get rid of him for anyone who is willing to take on his salary. He might have been the most overrate player in this city in a long time, but everyone loved his "hustle." When fans always talk about a player's "hustle" then it most likely means that the player has no talent and sucks. Case in point with Freel.

[IVANHOE]

This deal is finalized:

Reds get: Ramon Hernandez

Orioles get: Freel, and two prospects.

Orioles are also sending over $1MM

[MD Muskie]

how many years are left on Freel's contract?

[IVANHOE]

If the Rays are to invest in another outfielder like Milton Bradley or Ken Griffey, i have heard they would have interest in Homer Bailey for Eric Hinske, Johnny Gomes or Rocco Baldeli.

[FoundingFather]

If you want your catchers to hustle and play defense then don't get excited about this trade. Hernandez rarely would ever drop to his knees to block a pitch in the dirt and would often jog to the backstop to get a wild pitch. perhaps this is because he had to deal with daniel cabrera for so many years, but he also isn't a young player anymore. Either way, as a lifelong O's fan, I think the O's will get the better deal. Weiters won't have Hernandez as a bad influence in front of him, and Freel can be a useful utility player, not to mention two minor league players (if that is true).

[Michigan Muskie]

If you want your catchers to hustle and play defense then don't get excited about this trade. Hernandez rarely would ever drop to his knees to block a pitch in the dirt and would often jog to the backstop to get a wild pitch. perhaps this is because he had to deal with daniel cabrera for so many years, but he also isn't a young player anymore. Either way, as a lifelong O's fan, I think the O's will get the better deal. Weiters won't have Hernandez as a bad influence in front of him, and Freel can be a useful utility player, not to mention two minor league players (if that is true).

Honestly, I think this trade suits both teams well. Ramon had played his course in Baltimore and I've heard there wasn't a great rapport with the manager. Perhaps he'll wake up a bit with the proverbial change of scenery in what I believe is a contract year for him.

Both the Reds and the O's win here.

[IVANHOE]

Hernandez has $9MM left on his contract, while Freel has $4MM.

[XU 87]

how many years are left on Freel's contract?

I think one. I've always thought that he is an overrated player. Yes, he plays hard. But even when he's not hurt, he has no power and his OBP isn't all that great for a guy that hits at the top of the order. He has some speed but he doesn't have a particulalry great arm. He can play a bunch of positions.

In short, he's a classic utility player.

[MD Muskie]

I think one. I've always thought that he is an overrated player. Yes, he plays hard. But even when he's not hurt, he has no power and his OBP isn't all that great for a guy that hits at the top of the order. He has some speed but he doesn't have a particulalry great arm. He can play a bunch of positions.

In short, he's a classic utility player.

that is exactly what the O's need right now. While he might not be sure-handed, he can still play just about every position for them. That is something the O's have not had in awhile. Plus he is gone after next year when hopefully the young guys on the team have matured more while some of the other prospects are progressed further.

[Juice]

If the Rays are to invest in another outfielder like Milton Bradley or Ken Griffey, i have heard they would have interest in Homer Bailey for Eric Hinske, Johnny Gomes or Rocco Baldeli.

Baldelli is a free agent.

Ramon Hernandez c
4 years/$27.5M (2006-09), plus 2010 club option

* signed as a free agent 12/05
* 06:$4.5M, 07:$6.5M, 08:$7.5M, 09:$8M, 10:$8.5M club option ($1M buyout)
* 4 years/$9.5M (2002-05)
o $0.15M signing bonus
o 02:$0.46M, 03:$1.85M, 04:$2.9M, 05:$4.14M
o award bonus: $50,000 for All Star selection
o signed 3/02
* agent: Eric Goldschmidt
* ML service: 8.099

Ryan Freel of
2 years/$7M (2008-09)

* 2 years/$7M (2008-09)
o signed extension with Cincinnati 4/07
o 08:$3M, 09:$4M
o performance bonuses based on PAs (up to $0.5M in 2008)
* 2 years/$3M (2006-07)
o signed extension 12/05
o 06:$1.3M, 07:$1.7M ($2.35M with PA bonus)
o 2007 salary increases:
+ by $0.3M (to $2M) with 200 PAs in 2006
+ by $0.95M (to $2.65M) with 650 PAs in 2006
* 1 year/$0.45M (2005)
* 1 year/$0.32M (2004)
o re-signed 3/04
* agent: Tommy Tanzer, CSMG
* ML service: 4.140

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/

[IVANHOE]

Baldelli is a free agent.

Yea i knew that i was just thinking out loud i want jockety to take a flier on baldelli. especially after we rid patterson. get baldelli an incentive contract.

But that rumor for hinske or gomes is legit. After the year that hinske had i think he could produce that and more at Great American. would be a cheap replacement for Dunn

[XU 87]

I just checked Freel's stats. His OBP actually was decent in '03, '04 and '05 (.365- .375 range). It wasn't so good in '06 and 07, but he was hurt both years. He can steal some bases and was around 75% in 03- 05. (I think sabermetrics requires a 70% success rate).

One thing I forgot about Freel. He has never driven in more than 28 RBI's in a season. I realize he was usually batting leadoff, but I'd love to see a stat about his BA with runners in scoring position. My guess is that it's not too good. But sabermetrics tells me that he probably didn't bat with a whole lot of runners in scoring position. So I'll guess that it's a combo of both.

[FoundingFather]

Honestly, I think this trade suits both teams well. Ramon had played his course in Baltimore and I've heard there wasn't a great rapport with the manager. Perhaps he'll wake up a bit with the proverbial change of scenery in what I believe is a contract year for him.

Both the Reds and the O's win here.

agreed. It is a contract year, and a change of scenery could do him well. I will root for him in Cincy tho. He is a big improvement over another former Oriole who caught for the Reds last year, Paul Bako.

[Jumpy]

with this deal in the books, I would actually like to see the Bailey for Dye deal completed. Adding Dye before the deal was pointless because he wasn't able to put them in playoff contention alone. With an extra proven MLB bat in the lineup, though, I think they could be close this year. With the talented, young pitching staff they have, I'd take my chances with this lineup:

Dickerson
Phillips
Bruce
Dye
Votto
Encarnacion
Hernandez
Gonzalez

I'll gladly pull for that team.

EDIT: Forgot the mention Arthur Rhodes. If they win the race for him, they owe it to themselves to add what would probably prove to be the last offseason addition of any worth in Dye/a proven corner outfielder with a bat. If you're going to go, go all the way.

[Juice]

He can steal some bases and was around 75% in 03- 05. (I think sabermetrics requires a 70% success rate).

Freel is a terrible base runner. Is he fast? Yes. But can he run the base paths? No.

Last year he was 15/23 = 65%
Average for all of MLB in 2007 = 74.4%

He gets picked off more than any other player than I have seen in a long while. Freel is awful.

[Cheesehead]

More than ok with this trade. I just hope the prospects were not anything to write home about.

[Juice]

More than ok with this trade. I just hope the prospects were not anything to write home about.

http://redsminorleagues.com/

This is a great site for any analysis or news on Reds minor leaguers.

[jdm2000]

Good trade, I'm happy with it. If the Reds re-sign Hairston, they certainly don't need Freel and Hopper (and Dickerson) in the OF. I'd be okay with Bailey for Dye, though I can see why some would be nervous. Also, is no one else nervous about the shortstop position? That's going to be a black hole if we're not careful.

[MD Muskie]

So what can any of you tell me about Third baseman Brandon Waring and Second Baseman Justin Turner? They are the two prospects that were included in the deal.

[Jumpy]

So what can any of you tell me about Third baseman Brandon Waring and Second Baseman Justin Turner? They are the two prospects that were included in the deal.

Juice's link will tell you all you want to know. Honestly, I haven't even heard of them and doubt that many outside of the organization have, either.

They are mid-tier prospects, not bad, but not great.

[Juice]

Here is some brief analysis from redsminorleagues.com:

Brandon Waring - 3B - 22 years old

Waring has some really good power in his bat as seen with his 20 HR, but the strikeout rate is downright scary at 31%. Given his age and the level, he is going to need to make some big improvements in the strikeout department. Look for him in Sarasota next year.

Justin Turner - 2B - 23 years old

Turner has been about as solid as you can be his entire career. He will hit for a strong average, get on base plenty and show a little pop all while playing good defense at second base. He doesn’t have any outstanding tools, but is good at everything. He could start in Carolina or Louisville next year.

For more on Turner: http://redsminorleagues.com/2008/11/18/thinking-about-justin-turner/

[Jumpy]

Even though it is old news now and everyone already knows, I'm sure, I'll add that the Reds and Arthur Rhodes have agreed to a deal, pending the physical. 2 years for $4 mil. Not a bad deal, if you ask me.

Now do yourselves a favor and finish out the plan. Trade for Dye, Baldelli or DeRosa. while I think that Dye is probably the best option of those three, any of them can help. I just don't want to see the Reds stop now and leave this club half built. It would be as pointless as giving CoCo Cordero all that money last year while failing to do anything else.

[nuts4xu]

I would love to see the Reds make a push for Bobby Abreau. He is a doubles machine and would do well in our ballpark. He isn't known for his clubhouse presence but would be just what the doctor ordered in this lineup.

[Juice]

I would love to see the Reds make a push for Bobby Abreau. He is a doubles machine and would do well in our ballpark. He isn't known for his clubhouse presence but would be just what the doctor ordered in this lineup.

For the right price.

He is pretty old and bad on defense to be throwing money at him. The problem is that he is going to ask for a multi-year deal for a lot of money. The only corner outfielder that the Reds have been rumored to be involved with would be Juan Rivera or Jeremy Hermida. Juan is 29 or 30 and Hermida is 24 or 25 I believe.

Burrell, as many have said, is the same player as Dunn but right handed and he will be asking for a lot of money so I do not see him as the solution either.

But it is obvious that they need someone in the OF considering they only have Dickerson, Hopper, and Bruce. Hopefully Hairston resigns because of his ability to play several positions and being able to lead off.

[XU 87]

Hairston had a career year with the Reds last year. Based on past production, I wouldn't expect similar numbers. There was a reason that he signed a minor league contract and started in AAA last year. Plus, he gets hurt a lot, as we saw.

Hairston has a career .260 BA and .330 OBP. Last year he hit .326 and had an OBP of .386. His slugging percentage last year was 100 points above his career average. If you think he will do what he did last year then the Reds should do everything within reason to sign him. But I suspect that he'll fall back to his career averages. And he's in his early 30's. So he's not some young guy who gained a little experience and simply figured out how to hit in the big leagues.

[xumuskiefan]

Even though it is old news now and everyone already knows, I'm sure, I'll add that the Reds and Arthur Rhodes have agreed to a deal, pending the physical. 2 years for $4 mil. Not a bad deal, if you ask me.

Now do yourselves a favor and finish out the plan. Trade for Dye, Baldelli or DeRosa. while I think that Dye is probably the best option of those three, any of them can help. I just don't want to see the Reds stop now and leave this club half built. It would be as pointless as giving CoCo Cordero all that money last year while failing to do anything else.


What do you think about Pat Burrell? Dye is a good option but a little overpriced. DeRosa may be ideal but I doubt the Cubs will trade within the division and now that they are out of the Jake Peavy sweepstakes they may not need to move DeRosa. I like Baldelli but he seems a little injury prone.

[Juice]

Hairston had a career year with the Reds last year. Based on past production, I wouldn't expect similar numbers. There was a reason that he signed a minor league contract and started in AAA last year. Plus, he gets hurt a lot, as we saw.

Hairston has a career .260 BA and .330 OBP. Last year he hit .326 and had an OBP of .386. His slugging percentage last year was 100 points above his career average. If you think he will do what he did last year then the Reds should do everything within reason to sign him. But I suspect that he'll fall back to his career averages. And he's in his early 30's. So he's not some young guy who gained a little experience and simply figured out how to hit in the big leagues.

I agree with you on Hairston, I should have specified that I like him as a utility guy, and a much utility player than Freel. I should have said that I hope the Reds sign Hairston to provide depth at the OF position while still looking for a full time guy.

[XU 87]

Pat Burrell is the right handed version of Adam Dunn, with a little less power. He hits home runs, drives in a fair amount of RBI's (but usually less than 100-except for two years), is slow, has a low BA but a high OBP, and strikes out a lot.

[Jumpy]

What do you think about Pat Burrell? Dye is a good option but a little overpriced. DeRosa may be ideal but I doubt the Cubs will trade within the division and now that they are out of the Jake Peavy sweepstakes they may not need to move DeRosa. I like Baldelli but he seems a little injury prone.


Pat Burrell is the right handed version of Adam Dunn, with a little less power. He hits home runs, drives in a fair amount of RBI's (but usually less than 100-except for two years), is slow, has a low BA but a high OBP, and strikes out a lot.

Plus Burrell is going to demand a large contract over many years.

All the guys available through free agency or trade can have compelling cases made for and against them. there just isn't one guy that is a must have this year. I think that is why I like Dye. He is solid but not great in all offensive categories and is serviceable in the OF, as long as the Reds are willing to put Bruce back in CF. He comes at a high price, but his contract isn't long. Next year and an option for 2010. Perfect for bridging the gap while the younger guys become more seasoned.

Ideally, DeRosa would be the best fit because of his ability to play just about any position, but I think Muskiefan is right. the Cubs will be very wary to trade him to a division rival. Not to mention the number of teams interested driving his price through the roof.

[chico]

I agree with 87 on Burrell. He's also much too streaky of a hitter. I don't think Baldelli would fit because he's going to be hard pressed to play every day.

The Reds do have some flexibility, because they could potentially move Votto or Encarnacion to left. Both are sub par defenders at their current positions and neither could do any worse than Dunn did out there.

[Jumpy]

I agree with 87 on Burrell. He's also much too streaky of a hitter. I don't think Baldelli would fit because he's going to be hard pressed to play every day.

The Reds do have some flexibility, because they could potentially move Votto or Encarnacion to left. Both are sub par defenders at their current positions and neither could do any worse than Dunn did out there.

If you move one of those guys, though, who do you put in their place?

[wkrq59]

Can Dye still defend and make those spectacular catches we've seen him make in past years??? Can Burrell defend? Lately, the defense in centerfield has been extremely suspect. With Junior's bad legs and age and extra caution and Freel's headlong bouts with the walls, the position has been shaky to say the least.
Both Burrell and Dye would be ok, and GABP would suit both, but can they stilll play the outfield, especially Dye?:D

[chico]

If you move one of those guys, though, who do you put in their place?

I'm thinking it opens up the trade possibilities for a right handed bat - maybe someone like a Garrett Atkins.

[Juice]

Both Burrell and Dye would be ok, and GABP would suit both, but can they stilll play the outfield, especially Dye?:D

I agree Q. Without Gonzalez at SS the Reds are weak at the position. With Hernandez at catcher, they are defensively weak. With EE at 3rd they are defensively weak. Dickerson would be good in center, but if you add Burrell or Dye in left the Reds are weak there too. So the only decent to good defensive positions would be 1st (Votto), 2nd (Phillips), Right (Bruce), and Center (Dickerson). That is not very good.

I do not like the Dye idea at all. He makes too much money and he is too old. Plus, the Sox won't even give him up for just Bailey. They want more, and I don't like that idea for a guy the Reds would have at most for 2 years.

What ever happened to building the team with youth? That is why I think Rivera and Hermida are the only fits for this team unless they sign some rent-a-player for one year in the outfield.

Update on Abreu: The Cubs, Rays, Dodgers and Angels are among teams that have expressed interest in star free-agent outfielder Bobby Abreu.
Does anyone think we are going to outbid these teams and at the same time keep the price reasonable?

[Jumpy]

Can Dye still defend and make those spectacular catches we've seen him make in past years??? Can Burrell defend? Lately, the defense in centerfield has been extremely suspect. With Junior's bad legs and age and extra caution and Freel's headlong bouts with the walls, the position has been shaky to say the least.
Both Burrell and Dye would be ok, and GABP would suit both, but can they stilll play the outfield, especially Dye?:D

Well, when Jr. went to Chicago, they opted to put him in CF and keep Dye in RF, so that may tell us where he stands as a defensive player. I'm under the opinion, though, that we can't be worse than we were last year in the OF.