(Mythical) Jesuit Basketball Conference

[xudash]

I think Lunardi or the St. Joe's broadcasters for the Creighton game mentioned that, if 19 of the D1A Jesuit hoops schools comprised a conference, it would be third in the RPI at present.

Pretty interesting stuff. I suspect this is being driven by Xavier, Georgetown and Gonzaga primarily with key assists from Marquette and Creighton. As is the case with much of the A10, St. Joe's certainly is soiling the bed and not adding value at this point. Fordham alone probably kept the ranking from going to 'two.'

Also, check this out:

http://www.ajcunet.edu/jesuitbasketball

[Cincypunk.org]

I think Lunardi or the St. Joe's broadcasters for the Creighton game mentioned that, if 19 of the D1A Jesuit hoops schools comprised a conference, it would be third in the RPI at present.

Pretty interesting stuff. I suspect this is being driven by Xavier, Georgetown and Gonzaga primarily with key assists from Marquette and Creighton. As is the case with much of the A10, St. Joe's certainly is soiling the bed and not adding value at this point. Fordham alone probably kept the ranking from going to 'two.'

Also, check this out:

http://www.ajcunet.edu/jesuitbasketball

19 teams? That would be a shitty conference to be a part of!

[Muskie]

Fr. Hoff once told me that he would not support a "Catholic" or "Jesuit" only conference because it would be severely disadvantaged by the lack of Division I football. He felt that the football conferences would push the non-football conferences around.

I just don't see the type of arrangement Lunardi proposes working.

[Snipe]

Eight team field for the Jesuit Showdown:

1 Gonzaga
2 Xavier
3 Georgetown
4 Marquette
5 Boston College
6 Creighton
7 Holy Cross
8 St. Joes

[drudy23]

Eight team field for the Jesuit Showdown:

1 Gonzaga
2 Xavier
3 Georgetown
4 Marquette
5 Boston College
6 Creighton
7 Holy Cross
8 St. Joes

That'd be a nice early season tourney.

[Juice]

While I always thought that the idea of a Catholic or Jesuit conference or tournament would be very cool, it always seemed to me that from the outside it would look too "elitist" to others on the outside.

[GoMuskies]

While I always thought that the idea of a Catholic or Jesuit conference or tournament would be very cool, it always seemed to me that from the outside it would look too "elitist" to others on the outside.

Works for the BCS

[xu15]

I think a Jesuit league would be Xavier's only chance for the semi-near future to get out of the A10. Not to mention it would be a really tough league.

[drudy23]

While I always thought that the idea of a Catholic or Jesuit conference or tournament would be very cool, it always seemed to me that from the outside it would look too "elitist" to others on the outside.

How is it any different from Big 10/ACC or Big 12/SEC (or whoever they play). They seem to revel in the "elitist" label.

Plus, since when does Jesuit = elitist?

[Juice]

How is it any different from Big 10/ACC or Big 12/SEC (or whoever they play). They seem to revel in the "elitist" label.

Plus, since when does Jesuit = elitist?

I dont think that it is, but people get pissed at the GCL in Cincinnati for being "elitist." I just think that sometimes people get mad when all-Catholic things are formed. I do not agree with this though process but I just think that it exists.

[Emp]

How is it any different from Big 10/ACC or Big 12/SEC (or whoever they play). They seem to revel in the "elitist" label.

Plus, since when does Jesuit = elitist?

Well since, ahhh, lemmethink....FOREVER?

Founding fathers: educated sons of rich Catholics.

In America: run more prep schools and universities than any other order, by powers.

The Jesuits think they are hot holy sh*t, and most of us do, too.

The "other orders" cringe at Jesuit elitism, but it can't be avoided. The Jesuits try to and generally succeed in skimming the cream of Catlick manhood in 8th grade (on the merits and on legacy), and prep them to go to Jesuit universities. They also used to be able to skim that high school crop for their own purposes* and perpetuation. They run candidates through the most vigorous training and preparation one can imaging, and the end product is an intellectual and spiritual five star priest. And that is why any Jesuit you ever had teach you was likely a braniac who was not in the least fearful of having to dumb down to teach you.


*Editorial note: spent a very short period of time considering whether to be a Jesuit, but those 30-day Spiritual Exercises got in the way.

[BBC 08]

The only other order I can think of to compete with the Jesuits in terms of teaching and faith are the Xaverian Brothers.

[PMI]

I wouldn't worry about anyone who thinks a Jesuit tournament would be elitist. One problem with a conference is that Gonzaga and Georgetown, for example, are not right around the corner. There would be some serious traveling for all the teams.

This idea has been tossed around on these boards for years. It's a cool thought, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[jdm2000]

Well since, ahhh, lemmethink....FOREVER?

Founding fathers: educated sons of rich Catholics.



Uh...are you meaning the founders of the SJ? Or like, the Founding Fathers? Because those guys most certainly weren't Catholic...

[drudy23]

I dont think that it is, but people get pissed at the GCL in Cincinnati for being "elitist." I just think that sometimes people get mad when all-Catholic things are formed. I do not agree with this though process but I just think that it exists.

They don't call the GCL elitists because it's Catholic, they do so because we're better.

[xudash]

Clarification Notice:

I didn't start the thread to suggest that we should pursue an all-Jesuit conference. I just thought it was interesting that it was pointed out that IF these schools comprised a conference, that conference would be standing at the 3 RPI rank at this point.

It is a credit to Catholic school basketball and to Jesuit school basketball in particular.

Otherwise, such a conference probably would never come together due to travel, as has been noted, and wouldn't have a chance in the near term due to existing tie-ins.

[bleedXblue]

what should happen is all 19 schools openly schedule 2-3 games with each other every yeart to help boost each others RPI........

[muskienick]

Here we go --- pipe dream #3,746:

All-Jebbie Conference:

EAST: Canisius, Georgetown, St. Joe's, Xavier

CENTRAL: Detroit, Loyola (IL), Marquette, St. Louis

WEST: Creighton, Gonzaga, San Francisco, Santa Clara

Play every school in the Conference 1 time (Home one year, Away the next) = 11 games
(5 Home/6 Away one year; 6 Home/5 Away the next)

Play two teams from each of the other Divisions (on a rotating basis) each year = 4 games
(two home, two away; play the other two teams in each division the next year, 2 home and 2 away)

Conference Schedule = 15 games

That leaves plenty of opportunity to schedule traditional rivalries, a couple of buy games, and some RPI inflaters.

Or #3,747 ---

EAST: Canisius, Detroit, Georgetown, St. Joe's, St. Louis, Xavier

WEST: Creighton, Gonzaga, Loyola (IL), Marquette, San Fran, Santa Clara

2 games against each Divisional opponent (1 H, 1 A each) = 10 Games

1 game against each opponent from the other Division (3 H, 3 A)

Total Conference Scghedule = 16 games

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd still prefer a Conference that isn't based on a religious order or even a religion. The Jesuit idea is too restrictive and invites the type of mediocrity we would be trying to escape.

Such a Conference would have to be free from any member having aspirations for a BCS football program or even a MAC- or CUSA-level program. Any aspirant to such a conference would have to have access to a decent-sized home playing arena and have a recent history of relative continued success and a good fan base. Each should also reside in a good media area, having a metro population of no less than 500,000. It would also seem reasonable to limit the size of the Conference to 9 so that a perfectly equitable schedule of 16 games (8 home and 8 away, and 2 against each member) could be made. It would also be best to prevent the situation that now adversely affects the A-10 --- that is, having two or three members in the same city (vying for the same fans, media attention, recruits, etc.).

One can easily count the likes of Butler, Dayton, Georgetown, Marquette, St. Louis, Villanova, and Xavier in such a group. (I'd also place Creighton in the mix but I've been blasted in the past for that suggestion with the comment that the Blue Jays are just too far away. I could see my way clear to forget about Creighton, mistake that I think it would be, if someone could suggest a couple of more good members from the East to fill out the nine spots.) Who would be the best two from among the likes of St. John's (ugh!), Canisius, Davidson, VCU, ODU, Providence, Seton Hall or URI? Should we consider the St. Joe's Hawks as a viable entry even though they seem to have the foresight of Ray Charles ("expanding" their band box from 3,200 to 4,000) and they would share their City with another member, Villanova? UMass and Charlotte are both talking D-1 football programs so they should be left out of the mix.

One might wonder if it wouldn't be best for all involved to just put the nine best programs together regardless of geography and hope that the national media exposure and fan base growth could offset any negative aspects of travel costs and classes missed. If so, we could have an All-Continent Conference consisting of:

Butler, Creighton, Dayton, Georgetown, Gonzaga, Marquette, St. Louis, Villanova, and XU.

Not All-Jesuit. Not even All-Catholic. But almost certainly: Not Likely!

[Emp]

Yes, I meant that Loyola guy, born in a castle, and Francis X, also a royal guy.
...............


The NCAA wont let teams form a Div 1 basketball only conference, and for good reason: It's (also?) about all the student athletes on other non basketball teams, the expense of non revenue sports, , and oh my god, the students, the student's parents, and fans who want to...gasp... actually attend a game, match, meet.... and not simply couch potato it.

The additional subtext issue is the expense, and not just the time, of competing in or attending a cross country meet, soccer match, golf tournament, swim meet....in Philly, Rhode Island, Charlotte, DC. Our league is already spread across nearly half of America.
Attending a competition and returning the same day is really only possible in Dayton, maybe Pittsburgh or St. Louis.

The next issue is competitive balance in the non revenue sports. Georgetown would be a great basketball match, not such a great place for Xavier to compete in many non rev sports.

Basketball is great, I love it, but it can't be the starting and ending point of league affiliation discussions.

[fellahmuskie]

This doesn't have anything to do with a conference, but what if we were to set up a revolving 4-team tournament each December between several Catholic schools? Yes, this has been discussed ad nauseam, but I'm just wondering what good reasons there are not doing it. In this case, I'm thinking Xavier, Creighton, Gonzaga and someone else--possibly Georgetown or even Memphis, though they aren't Catholic. Each year the tournament would be played at a different school. It could be held near Christmas and would be broadcast on ESPN. Given the year-in, year-out quality of all these schools, every match-up would be extremely hard-fought, especially with home-court advantage for one school. I see it being like a 4-team Crosstown Shootout atmosphere, where rankings and hype mean nothing once the game starts because of the incredible intensity.

I think I would definitely prefer Memphis over a Georgetown in the tournament, too. 4 elite programs from mid-major conferences (some may question Creighton, but I think that they're at the place we were just a few years back. We've morphed into a Gonzaga or Memphis now in terms of recruiting, but they're close. Hopefully they make the leap soon.) playing great basketball on a national stage. I don't see how that wouldn't be immensely popular to watch nationwide, especially if it were marketed properly. Given the basketball-centric nature of each of the schools, too, I think that ticket sales would be strong. One difficulty may be attendance if the host didn't make the finals. If it were enough of an event, though, that could be overcome. I know I would love to watch a Gonzaga-Memphis match-up at Cintas, even if Xavier had been knocked out.

And, yes, it would be elitist, but it's probably the closest we could come to the types of conferences we've been discussing.

[XUglow]

What is a Mythical Jesuit anyway? Father Hulk?

[xudash]

What is a Mythical Jesuit anyway? Father Hulk?

Yeah, yeah, okay.

I was borrowing from references to the mythical national championship in college football prior to the BCS or the mythical Ohio Valley Conference comprised of X, UC, MU, and Dayton.

At least the Jesuit thing is more mythical than virtual, though it is more anything else than mythical.

[Muskie]

[quote=muskienick;73181]Here we go --- pipe dream #3,746:

All-Jebbie Conference:

EAST: Canisius, Georgetown, St. Joe's, Xavier

CENTRAL: Detroit, Loyola (IL), Marquette, St. Louis

WEST: Creighton, Gonzaga, San Francisco, Santa Clara

_____

That's a ton of travel even if you keep the games to "divisions".

[GoMuskies]

mythical Ohio Valley Conference

The OVC is, sadly, all too real.

[muskiefan82]

Yeah, yeah, okay.

I was borrowing from references to the mythical national championship in college football prior to the BCS or the mythical Ohio Valley Conference comprised of X, UC, MU, and Dayton.

I believe you meant the Mythical Miami Valley Conference

[waggy]

I'd like to have Butler added to the A10, or part of whatever conference might be formed in the future. I wonder if they'd even be interested though? The Horizon (MCC) hasn't seemed to have held them back. Which is kind of ironic when you consider Xavier fans complaints about the A10.

[xudash]

I believe you meant the Mythical Miami Valley Conference

Thank you.

[OX09]

Yes, I meant that Loyola guy, born in a castle, and Francis X, also a royal guy.

Yeah, Iggy and X were such elitists that they renounced all their possessions...I hate rich guys who are too good for their own possessions.

[muskienick]

I was daydreaming again about the All-Continent Conference mentioned in post #18 in this thread. There traditionally has been criticism of such a widespread conference because of the travel time involved and the additional costs to the members.

That causes one to wonder what the cut-off point is for taking the bus vs taking the plane to an event. Certainly, XU would bus to Butler and Dayton and maybe even Duquesne. Do the Muskies fly to St. Louis, DC, Philly, and places of that distance? Our family has flown to Washington State (Sea-Tac Airport) and it's about a 5 hour flight. Heck, a bus trip to Chicago would take that long. Ergo, I don't see where the time/distance element should come into play. As far as the money is concerned, wouldn't a Conference such as the one described at the end of that earlier post attract many times the amount of League TV money (that most proposed members currently enjoy) and wouldn't local and regional sponsors be more likely to throw money at the radio and TV airings contracted by the individual members of the league (as compared to the current members of the A-10, Horizon, or WCC)?

I know, the minor sports are a part of this equation as well. How do the volleyball, swimming, and soccer teams now travel to URI, UMass, Olean, etc.?

[vee4xu]

[quote=muskienick;73181]Here we go --- pipe dream #3,746:

All-Jebbie Conference:

EAST: Canisius, Georgetown, St. Joe's, Xavier

CENTRAL: Detroit, Loyola (IL), Marquette, St. Louis

WEST: Creighton, Gonzaga, San Francisco, Santa Clara

_____

That's a ton of travel even if you keep the games to "divisions".

The concept is a fun idea. I agree on the travel front. Also, not a real strong RPI conference with Canisius, Detroit, Loyola, SF and Santa Clara. This seems a bit like a nationa-wide Horizon Conference. I do like the idea of a preseason conference among some combination of these teams.

[PMI]

I would make the trip to Rome or Paris for the St. Ignatius Invitational.

[Emp]

What is a Mythical Jesuit anyway? Father Hulk?

this is a signature line on the Creighton board...

Father Schlegel said, "Creighton aspires to be among the top-tier Catholic universities, mentioned in the same breath as Notre Dame, Georgetown and Boston College. "

[Pluto]

If we wanted to cut the west coast travel what about this league (I know it is not Jesuit):

X
Depaul
Marquette
ND
Gtown
St. Joes
SLU
Dayton
Creighton
Butler

18 game league. You drop the dogs (Detroit, Loyola, Canisius, San Fran & Santa Clara). Granted you don't have Gonzaga but I think the overall league would be much better.

[bobbiemcgee]

You could add 0-5 Denver to the West div

[muskienick]

Pluto,

I'd drop DePaul and St. Joe's and add Villanova. 'Nova is the better choice from Philly and DePaul has done virtually nothing since Ray Meyer was coach back in the 1700's (although the Chicago presence would be nice with a better program).

Then you have a 16-game Conference schedule and more opportunity to design an OOC schedule to fit your needs (traditional rivals + RPI builders + a couple of cupcakes + an attractive in-season Tourney)

[xu95]

Heck, I would just throw Duke, Wake Forest, and Vanderbilt in there because we have just a good a shot at that happening.

xu95