Dayton v.s. Marquette

[muskies05]

For those of you who have DirectTv, the game is on 639

[Snipe]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/marquette-basketball

Thought I just added this. Sorry if this is a double post. You can watch it on the web.

[nuts4xu]

Snipe is watching on his computer with his Red Scare shirt on.

He is actually rooting for ud tonight.

Sinner!

[The Artist]

Chris Wright just jumped over somebody.

[waggy]

Wright just threw down a great great slam. Wow. Timeout Marquette.

[GoMuskies]

Dayton is dominating Marquette. This is good for the league.

[Pajama Joe]

Wright just threw down a great great slam. Wow. Timeout Marquette.

Was a crazy slam. But a little easier over the Acker who is listed one inch taller than Lavender.

[kyxu]

Should be two A-10 teams in the top 25 now come Monday.

[GoMuskies]

Wow, UD is working to choke this away.

[Snipe]

Great for the league. We need a big opponent in conference play.

I own no Dayton spiritwear and have no Red Scare t-shirt for the record. I root for every A-10 team in the non-conference for the benefit of Xavier.

UD is missing free throws down the stretch and the lead is down to 10 (it was 18).

[Pajama Joe]

Intentional fouls with 5 to go...this could be a long one.

Not over yet...lead down to 8.

[nuts4xu]

Great for the league. We need a big opponent in conference play.

I own no Dayton spiritwear and have no Red Scare t-shirt for the record. I root for every A-10 team in the non-conference for the benefit of Xavier.

UD is missing free throws down the stretch and the lead is down to 10 (it was 18).

You are still a sinner!! No need to root for ud in anything. They can cease to exist and it would be better for Xavier in my opinion.

[GoMuskies]

Intentional fouls with 5 to go...this could be a long one.

Not over yet...lead down to 8.

The Hack a Warren strategy. Sean Miller and walk-ons take note.

[Snipe]

Nuts, if you check the league today you see every team losing. The A-10 is going to be a joke unless someone else stands up and wins some games. I would like Dayton to be good when we beat them. It will only serve to break their hearts more. We own them. We know it. They know it. It pisses them off to no end. I am all for Xavier owning Dayton.

[dc_x]

The A-10 owns the Chicago Invitational.

[vee4xu]

Should be two A-10 teams in the top 25 now come Monday.

Where is ud currently ranked? Unless they are 26th or 27th, I doubt that beating an average Auburn team by 1 in OT and a seemingly overrated Marquette team tonight warrants ud being in the Top 25 at this point. But hey, stranger things have happened.

[Snipe]

That was a first class spanking.

[jcubspoe]

Where is ud currently ranked? Unless they are 26th or 27th, I doubt that beating an average Auburn team by 1 in OT and a seemingly overrated Marquette team tonight warrants ud being in the Top 25 at this point. But hey, stranger things have happened.

Overrated? was Memphis overrated then? I mean, maybe marq is overrated...who knows but the fact is we just spanked the 15th ranked team on a neutral floor. Now will we be ranked? probably not...but we'll certainly move into the getting votes category now. And you can be sure to see a mammoth dunk on sportscenter tonight.

[vee4xu]

ud shot 51% from the field and Marquette shot 39%, including 4-20 from three-point range. All else seemed pretty even. There were about 75 foul shots taken in the game, so it must have been sloppy.

[vee4xu]

Overrated? was Memphis overrated then? I mean, maybe marq is overrated...who knows but the fact is we just spanked the 15th ranked team on a neutral floor. Now will we be ranked? probably not...but we'll certainly move into the getting votes category now. And you can be sure to see a mammoth dunk on sportscenter tonight.

Wow. Cool your jets man. Historically, the two most overrated teams by the end of each season are Gonzaga and Marquette. They get a free pass on the pre-season and early season ratings. History speaks for itself. The past few years both Gonzaga and Marquette are no where to be found at the end of the year, while Memphis is going for an unprecedented fourth straight 30-win season. Those are just facts there ud fan.

[Pajama Joe]

Wow. Cool your jets man. Historically, the two most overrated teams by the end of each season are Gonzaga and Marquette. They get a free pass on the pre-season and early season ratings. History speaks for itself. The past few years both Gonzaga and Marquette are no where to be found at the end of the year, while Memphis is going for an unprecedented fourth straight 30-win season. Those are just facts there ud fan.

I agree vee. I've followed Marquette for a while now. They never live up to their pre-season ranking.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think Gonzaga is generally overrated. They tend to earn their high rankings with big non-conference wins. Marquette? Pollsters seem to think Dwayne Wade still plays for them.

[principal]

C'mon, it was a great victory for Dayton and for the A-10. How overrated can they be? Are they really the number 25 team in the country? Number 30? I wouldn't storm the court if we won this game, but it is a solid win by a large margin of victory.

[kyxu]

C'mon, it was a great victory for Dayton and for the A-10. How overrated can they be? Are they really the number 25 team in the country? Number 30? I wouldn't storm the court if we won this game, but it is a solid win by a large margin of victory.

No kidding. No one here was downplaying our win over #8 Indiana in this same tournament last year, even though everyone knew IU was clearly not a top 10 team.

[stophorseabuse]

Memphis was overrated right then.

Why would a UD fan be here right now? Complex?
________
halfbaked (http://half-baked.com)

[GoMuskies]

No kidding. No one here was downplaying our win over #8 Indiana in this same tournament last year, even though everyone knew IU was clearly not a top 10 team.

I don't think we thought IU was overrated at that point last year. Obviously, it became clear later that they were grossly overrated.

I think Marquette and Memphis are both a bit overrated. Miami is underrated, though!

[Fireball]

Congrats to Dayton in picking up another good win for the league! Marquette may be overrated, but the A-10 will still get good press for this.

Now, if Dayton can avoid pissing away their season in the rst of their non-conference schedule and in conference play, they'll have actually done us some good.

[GuyFawkes38]

This mirrors X's run in Chicago last year.

Of course, if UD wants to really emerge from the XU shadow, they need to make the tourney and win a game or two. Who knows...this might be the year.

As I've said before on this board, it seems like XU and UD have nearly identical programs, except for their success. It would not surprise me at all if the UD program improves in the next 5 years.

[dc_x]

I watched the UD game last night and was pretty impressed. Gregory has put together a d@mn athletic team. Their jump shooting is a bit shaky, but Marquette (who is pretty athletic themselves) had a real hard time keeping the UD slashers out of the lane.

With UD's schedule, there is no reason they can't go undefeated in the OOC.

[AdamtheFlyer]

This mirrors X's run in Chicago last year.

Of course, if UD wants to really emerge from the XU shadow, they need to make the tourney and win a game or two. Who knows...this might be the year.

As I've said before on this board, it seems like XU and UD have nearly identical programs, except for their success. It would not surprise me at all if the UD program improves in the next 5 years.

We have to do well in the A10 first. There's no reason this team should win less than 10 league games and/or finish worse than 3rd in league play. We should have no less than one OOC loss (at Homer-ha seems like the one). Need to take care of business at Akron and at Toledo.

We beat the crap out of Marquette last night. They have great athletes and their guards are unreal, but they couldn't handle our combo of strength, athletic ability, and most importantly, depth. One guy comes in and pounds on you. When he gets a foul or two, the next guy comes in and hits you harder.

The team went through some MMA training over the summer. it worked.

[boozehound]

I don't think we thought IU was overrated at that point last year. Obviously, it became clear later that they were grossly overrated.

I think Marquette and Memphis are both a bit overrated. Miami is underrated, though!

How grossly overrated was IU last year? They had a pretty crappy second half to the season, but wasn't the whole Kelvin Sampson thing going on at that time?

I don't really think that we can say whether or not IU was truly overrated at the beginning of the season based on the firestorm of crap that they had going on in the second 1/2 of the season.

[XU 87]

As I said on another post, we'll see if UD is any good. This is the same team that beat Wofford by 3 at home and beat a lousy Auburn team by 1 a few nights ago.

Marquette was undefeated before last night's game but has beaten a bunch of patsies. So we'll also see if Marquette is any good.

[PMI]

Yea, Dayton had some close ones over teams they should've taken care of easier, but they still got the Ws and remain undefeated, and now have a big-time win under their belt. This will help their confidence and they really should go into league play without a loss now. I know rooting for them is like sleeping with your sister, but I'm with Snipe. We need someone else in this league to be good. I'd rather it weren't them and were rather someone else we get to play twice, but they're the only other team that appears to be stepping up.

Let's not forget that we haven't exactly looked like a top 16 team yet, at least consistently. I'm glad they got one for the A10 against the Big East. I would love for them to be undefeated when we break their hearts yet again.

[vee4xu]

Folks, we've seen this act before, just last year. ud started out something like 12-1, beat Pitt and Lousiville, were ranked in the Top 25 and did not, I repeat did not make the NCAA tournament. In fact, near the last week of the season many wondered if ud would even make the A-10 tournament. Now, ud sympathizers will point our that the vaunted Chris Wright was injured and that was the reason for the slide. Well, many teams lose players and still win. So, rather than get all up in arms about it, let's just see if the same ineptitude displayed by coach Gregory and his team comes home to roost again this year like it has so many other years during the Gregory-era.

[Muskie]

muscoop.com is on meltdown.

[jcubspoe]

Folks, we've seen this act before, just last year. ud started out something like 12-1, beat Pitt and Lousiville, were ranked in the Top 25 and did not, I repeat did not make the NCAA tournament. In fact, near the last week of the season many wondered if ud would even make the A-10 tournament. Now, ud sympathizers will point our that the vaunted Chris Wright was injured and that was the reason for the slide. Well, many teams lose players and still win. So, rather than get all up in arms about it, let's just see if the same ineptitude displayed by coach Gregory and his team comes home to roost again this year like it has so many other years during the Gregory-era.

Really? How many players did you guys lose last year for weeks on end? yes, we started 14-1 last year and yes, injuries set in...there's no getting around that reality. you can call us sympathizers all you want but the injuries happened. Now, we should have still won some games last year that we managed to fumble away with or without CW but i see us making the tourny this year as long as we keep key players healthy. I'm in total agreement though that until we prove it in A10 play there's no reason to get all hyped up...great win yes...but won't matter squat if we have another 8-8 campaign in conf.

[The Artist]

muscoop.com is on meltdown.

wow - you weren't kidding

[vee4xu]

Really? How many players did you guys lose last year for weeks on end? yes, we started 14-1 last year and yes, injuries set in...there's no getting around that reality. you can call us sympathizers all you want but the injuries happened. Now, we should have still won some games last year that we managed to fumble away with or without CW but i see us making the tourny this year as long as we keep key players healthy. I'm in total agreement though that until we prove it in A10 play there's no reason to get all hyped up...great win yes...but won't matter squat if we have another 8-8 campaign in conf.

The above may be defined as "loser talk" followed by a dose of reality.

[Masterofreality]

Marquette was undefeated before last night's game but has beaten a bunch of patsies. So we'll also see if Marquette is any good.

I'm in the camp that says that Marquette is way overrated. I have not had them in my Top 25 in any week, not even close. They have only been ranked because of their association with the Big Greased.

They have a new and inexperienced head coach who is an unproven commodity. Last years NCAA team barely beat a flawed Kentucky team in round 1 and lost to Stanford in the second round. They won a lot of close games last year against inferior competition. I am NOT impressed.

They'll get a lot of play on B-ESPN, but don't buy the hype.

[ford]

if anyone hasn't seen the chris wright dunk from last night's (since the Big East broadcast didn't even replay it during the game), here it is. I was at the IU game for DBrown's dunk and this was just as incredible to watch as it happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYL0v9BnVYI

[The Artist]

I'm in the camp that says that Marquette is way overrated. I have not had them in my Top 25 in any week, not even close. They have only been ranked because of their association with the Big Greased.

They have a new and inexperienced head coach who is an unproven commodity. Last years NCAA team barely beat a flawed Kentucky team in round 1 and lost to Stanford in the second round. They won a lot of close games last year against inferior competition. I am NOT impressed.

They'll get a lot of play on B-ESPN, but don't buy the hype.

Marquette lost on a game winner to a pretty solid (not spectacular) Stanford team (Lopez twins, anyone?). I felt where they ended up last year was justified. They were a solid 6 seed, and probably were not better than Stanford - a win against them would have been an over-achievement.

Do you not feel they were not worthy of the 6 seed? If you do, then give me any 6 seed from the previous year, tell me they lost their coach, and really nothing else, and I'd probably rank them top 20 preseason.

You find me a team from any conference that fits their formula and wasn't in the same preseason position as Marquette, Big East or no...

Now, I do agree that their coach is questionable, they apparently can't play defense, they live and die by the three, and they probably will not have that great of a year...but I still feel they were deserving of their pre -> early season spot, and I will most likely have them just inside the top 25 because I think they still have the talent to beat some good teams.

So, if you want to say that you were able to tell early on that they were going to struggle some this year, that's totally fair, and right now it's looking that you were/are at least partially correct. But to imply they didn't deserve their pre-season ranking or were overhyped (I'm not sure how that is considering I watch sports a ton and haven't heard a word about Marquette) isn't totally fair in my opinion.

[xufan02]

In my opinion bother Memphis and Marquette are overrated, but it doesn't change the fact that UD and Xavier have a signature win.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Two things lead me to believe UD is much more suited for sustaining a high level of play.

- Depth. We go a legit 12 deep this year now that Paul Williams is over his broken foot enough to play real minutes. If/When he breaks out the offensive game, that will make UD even better. Fabrizius has shown the last few games that he can play defense. Wright's monster dunk doesn't happen if Luke didn't make a nice play to swat a Marq interior pass. Steven Thomas was an afterthought heading into the season, but he's been the most pleasant surprise of all early on. Both games in Chicago saw Warren and Lowery get 2 fouls early on, and Thomas responded very well when his number was called. He's smooth with the ball, good enough defensively, and is showcasing a nice mid-range offensive game.

- The combination of athleticism and power. We beat the living crap out of Marquette - powder blue bodies were flying everywhere - and we had the athletes to stay with one of the quickest teams in the country. It seemed like we got to the rim whenever we wanted. Defense, rebounding, and getting to the rim are "slump proof", and those three appear to be the overwhelming strengths so far. Poor shooting may lose you a few games over the course of a season, but the aforementioned areas win you virtually every game you'll play.

I'm very encouraged. Should handle Troy pretty easily, then have a two game road swing at Akron and Homerha. The two road games are the next quiz to take.

I'm almost afraid to watch the UD/X games later this year. It'll be like a couple of Gallagher shows. Bring a plastic tarp if you sit down low...because blood and other bodily fluids are likely to fly. Those games will be like Bo vs Woody football games. If you don't leave with a black eye, you must not have played.

[golfitup]

if anyone hasn't seen the chris wright dunk from last night's (since the Big East broadcast didn't even replay it during the game), here it is. I was at the IU game for DBrown's dunk and this was just as incredible to watch as it happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYL0v9BnVYI

Holy Hell!

[vee4xu]

- Depth. We go a legit 12 deep this year now that Paul Williams is over his broken foot enough to play real minutes.

Wow, if you are saying this because you think ud is good, then I would argue not even the Tar Heels can say as much. If you say this because ud is either bad or mediocre, then I understand it.

[AdamtheFlyer]

- Depth. We go a legit 12 deep this year now that Paul Williams is over his broken foot enough to play real minutes.

Wow, if you are saying this because you think ud is good, then I would argue not even the Tar Heels can say as much. If you say this because ud is either bad or mediocre, then I understand it.

That's why I said "legit" 12 deep. Anyone can play 12 players, but getting good play from 12 guys gives you a major advantage. If you don't understand the effect depth has on a basketball game, I don't know what to say. Ask Marquette what depth means. Bench scoring was in favor of UD something like 50-5. UD dominated Marquette because they were able to go to the bench and replace someone with equal or better production, and Marquette could not.

Stay at the kiddie table (the smack forum) pounding your "UD SUX" fists with a ridiculous UNC comparison (literally the dumbest thing ever posted on this or any forum) and let the grown ups talk about basketball. Your posts in this thread have lowered everyone's IQ at least 10 points.

[waggy]

Adam, how do you expect to maintain civil discussion when you give in to the urge to cut on someone when they post something you don't agree with?

Just debate the issues on their merits, or walk away if you don't feel like you're receiving like discussion. In the end the results on the court are going to speak for themselves anyway. And frankly it's fair that X fans would question the what the end result will be, given Dayton's most recent seasons. Not everyone here is following Dayton. In fact, quite a few have no interest in doing so.

[bourbonman]

Adam, how do you expect to maintain civil discussion when you give in to the urge to cut on someone when they post something you don't agree with?

Just debate the issues on their merits, or walk away if you don't feel like you're receiving like discussion. In the end the results on the court are going to speak for themselves anyway. And frankly it's fair that X fans would question the what the end result will be, given Dayton's most recent seasons. Not everyone here is following Dayton. In fact, quite a few have no interest in doing so.

Completely agreed

[Flyer1407]

Just got back from Chicago, here are my observations....

-The way the tournament is run leaves a lot to be desired.
Music so soft you couldn't hear it,
No entertainment (except for the strippers...I mean cheer team, that danced at halftime of UD and Marquette).
No souvenirs or programs. WTF, no programs?
The ushers had no clue about anything.

Now the good.....the Marriott was a great place to stay for the tournament.
The restaurant we found was great, Claim Jumpers.
And Dayton went 2-0.
Dayton fans out numbering Marquette fans, even though Milwaukee is about an hour away.
Having the guy in front of me sit in silence after the Chris Wright dunk.

As for Dayton, I am still somewhat unsure about how the season is going to play out. But is was encouraging seeing them build and sustain a lead without Marcus Johnson for most of the game.
Paul Williams has been anything but good so far.
Chris Johnson is an absolute stud.
I'm going to hold off until I see them in a true road game before I say they can challenge X for the A10, but things look good right now.

[Swifty]

Chris Johnson is an absolute stud.


I find it somewhat amusing that after all the crap going back and forth between Xavier and UD fans this summer over recruiting (mostly Redford vs. Williams and Frease vs. Benson) that the two guys who have played the best so far are Johnson and Holloway. Chris Johnson is very good, does the dirty work on the boards but can shoot as well.

[vee4xu]

Stay at the kiddie table (the smack forum) pounding your "UD SUX" fists with a ridiculous UNC comparison (literally the dumbest thing ever posted on this or any forum) and let the grown ups talk about basketball. Your posts in this thread have lowered everyone's IQ at least 10 points.

Wow, the seemingly-always-level-headed-flyer-fan suddenly shows true colors when the season gets started and your team has some early success. Grow up dude.

p.s. - You are right about one thing though. I was stupid for trying to ever compare ud with UNC in any context. I was actually trying to praise ud in that sentence, but evidently you don't believe it either, or get it for that matter.

[AdamtheFlyer]

My bad, man.

[jcubspoe]

I find it somewhat amusing that after all the crap going back and forth between Xavier and UD fans this summer over recruiting (mostly Redford vs. Williams and Frease vs. Benson) that the two guys who have played the best so far are Johnson and Holloway. Chris Johnson is very good, does the dirty work on the boards but can shoot as well.

I agree...If I didn't know any better I would have thought that C. Johson was really Paul Williams in a different uniform....so much for predicting what these guys will do once in college.

As far as Vee/Adam go...Vee has been every bit as harsh as Adam has been. All we're having is a nice discussion on the game and if any flyer fans say one nice thing about UD, vee chimes in...where is adam wrong in saying that UD goes 12 deep and that is what's going to make us tough to beat??? Yet vee has to throw in a comparison to UNC. Who said anything about UD being better then UNC? Our 6-0 record is what's making us good right now, just as X's 6-0 record is making X pretty good right now. Why doesn't Vee just come on here and say "I hate Dayton" and stay out of it like PMthor does?

[Lamont Sanford]

Why doesn't Vee just come on here and say "I hate Dayton" and stay out of it like PMthor does?

OK, I hate Dayton too. Feel free to continue this moronic discussion. UD will NEVER and I stress NEVER be UNC.

Flagship.

[vee4xu]

I challenged a comment made by a ud fan. The point iI was making is that not even one of the elite programs in the country claims to be 12 deep, so how can one do so with ud and mean it. The response was terse and I am not sure why.

Let's get something straight here. By most measures I am a pretty level-headed poster here. I try to take pride in that. However, I will not back down from anyone who hits me with a cyber-sucker punch. You want to be civil and play nice, I can do that. You want to throw it down, I'm all in for that method too.

My motto is you make the rules and I will play by them.

As for not liking ud, you are correct. I do not like them. But remember, this is a Xavier chatboard, so anyone who roots for ud isn't going to find there to be many who support that.

Adam, as for your, "my bad", I'll take that as an extended olive branch, which I accept. Now lets move on.

[bourbonman]

... You want to throw it down, I'm all in for that method too.

My motto is you make the rules and I will play by them. ...

Knowing you as I do, I know where you're coming from. I believe you live by the motto, "You pull a knife on me, you better plan on bleeding." :eek: Yet you prefer the peaceful route. :)

[jcubspoe]

I challenged a comment made by a ud fan. The point iI was making is that not even one of the elite programs in the country claims to be 12 deep, so how can one do so with ud and mean it. The response was terse and I am not sure why.

Let's get something straight here. By most measures I am a pretty level-headed poster here. I try to take pride in that. However, I will not back down from anyone who hits me with a cyber-sucker punch. You want to be civil and play nice, I can do that. You want to throw it down, I'm all in for that method too.

My motto is you make the rules and I will play by them.

As for not liking ud, you are correct. I do not like them. But remember, this is a Xavier chatboard, so anyone who roots for ud isn't going to find there to be many who support that.

Adam, as for your, "my bad", I'll take that as an extended olive branch, which I accept. Now lets move on.


I'm not saying you should just sit and take the cyber punch from Adam. But you completely were wrong in your argument that just because an elite program doesn't go 12 deep doesn't mean that that won't be successful for UD. Will it? who knows at this point....but through 6 games it appears that that has been a difference from us on the court. We are playing lockdown D and using 12 players to do it. Ya, our offense may look in shambles at times but by playing 12 guys we can always play intense D and that's what is winning games for us.

[vee4xu]

jcub, I've moved on from this issue. Good bye!

[AdamtheFlyer]

I challenged a comment made by a ud fan. The point iI was making is that not even one of the elite programs in the country claims to be 12 deep, so how can one do so with ud and mean it.

Let me, the actual person who took offense, explain.

I'm going to guess you didn't watch the Marquette game, or any game UD has played this season. Yet somehow, you felt the need to chime in and pretend you know something about this UD team. That's my problem. Other people expressed the same points as you, but actually gave an opinion of a game they saw. You didn't. You simply repeated the same things multiple times.

The "12 deep" comment simply means UD plays 12 players that can all contribute in a positive way. It allows them to play a physical, in your face defense. It allowed them to be in serious foul trouble (they committed 10 fouls in the first 5 minutes of the second half against Marquette) and still run away from a quality opponent. Their depth wore out Marquette physically and mentally. Chris Johnson, a bench player, had a double double in 20 minutes of play. Dayton's bench outscored Marquette 48-5. Anyone that watched the game would say UD's 12 deep bench is the biggest reason they pounded Marquette. Even Marquette's coach alluded to it in the postgame.

Are UD's 12 as good as another team's 9? Depends on the team. UNC is the best team in the country. That was just a really, really dumb comparison, showing you really didn't know the subject matter I was talking about. I have no idea why you posted it, and I let it get under my skin. That's my problem, not your's...which leads me to...


Adam, as for your, "my bad", I'll take that as an extended olive branch, which I accept. Now lets move on.

It was an apology for getting personal. I should have stuck to the post itself.

[vee4xu]

It was an apology for getting personal.

That's how I interpreted it. Sorry it I wasn't clear about that.

[XU 87]

What year was it when UD last beat Xavier in Cincinnati?

When was the last time UD won an NCAA tourney game?

[Swifty]

In the dude's defense; Warren, Johnson, Wright, Little, Huelsman, Johnson, Lowry, Searcy, Williams, Thomas, Perry, and Fabrizious makes 12, although I'm not sure Williams averaging 0.2 points and 0.6 rebounds a game is really contributing.

[West is Best]

That's why I said "legit" 12 deep. Anyone can play 12 players, but getting good play from 12 guys gives you a major advantage. If you don't understand the effect depth has on a basketball game, I don't know what to say. Ask Marquette what depth means. Bench scoring was in favor of UD something like 50-5. UD dominated Marquette because they were able to go to the bench and replace someone with equal or better production, and Marquette could not.


There's a saying in football, "when you have 2 quarterbacks, you really have none" so I'm not as sold that being 12 deep is a good thing, even if you say its legit. If UD struggles at some point, it could lead to more finger pointing and eventually transfers. If UD hasn't whittled their rotation down to 10 by the end of January, it'll be a bad sign for the team.

That being said, in a season where A10 wins have been few and far between, the Marquette win is very impressive. Until X gets healthy, I'd say Dayton has the best team in the league.

[Flyer1407]

Dayton is not 12 deep. They really haven't played 12 deep until they had to play on back to back nights both games with players in foul trouble.

They have 3 point guards. Warren was in foul trouble making Lowery play more minutes and making Thomas the 2nd point against both Auburn and Marquette.

Against Marquette Marcus Johnson was in foul trouble the whole game as was London Warren and Huelsman.

Bottom line is Dayton didn't rotate 12 guys in any other game unless it was late and it was a blow out.

Mickey Perry has started playing better and perhaps Paul Williams is getting healthy, but Marcus is going to eat up the bulk of the minutes at the 2.

Oh and Chris Wright had 4 fouls.

Don't look for Dayton to constantly play 12 guys nor have 30 personal fouls all that often. They may play 12 guys every now and then because Gregory wants to see if Paul Williams will get on track but it will NOT be a 12 man rotation.

Here is the box to Marquette

http://daytonflyers.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2008-2009/ud-mu.html

Notice the minutes Warren, Lowery and Thomas played. Then look at the foul situation with Warren and Lowery.

Then look at the minutes M. Johnson, Perry, and Williams played. Then look at the foul situation with Johnson and Perry.

And after that look at Little. When your starting 4 is in foul trouble and then fouls out you have to play with different combination's on the floor.

Marquette also played mostly a 4 guard line-up. Hence why so many Dayton guards saw action. Good luck guarding James, McNeal, Matthews, Cubillan, and Acker all night without going deep into your bench.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Dayton is not 12 deep. They really haven't played 12 deep until they had to play on back to back nights both games with players in foul trouble.

They have 3 point guards. Warren was in foul trouble making Lowery play more minutes and making Thomas the 2nd point against both Auburn and Marquette.

Against Marquette Marcus Johnson was in foul trouble the whole game as was London Warren and Huelsman.

Bottom line is Dayton didn't rotate 12 guys in any other game unless it was late and it was a blow out.

Mickey Perry has started playing better and perhaps Paul Williams is getting healthy, but Marcus is going to eat up the bulk of the minutes at the 2.

Oh and Chris Wright had 4 fouls.

Don't look for Dayton to constantly play 12 guys nor have 30 personal fouls all that often. They may play 12 guys every now and then because Gregory wants to see if Paul Williams will get on track but it will NOT be a 12 man rotation.

Here is the box to Marquette

http://daytonflyers.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2008-2009/ud-mu.html

Notice the minutes Warren, Lowery and Thomas played. Then look at the foul situation with Warren and Lowery.

Then look at the minutes M. Johnson, Perry, and Williams played. Then look at the foul situation with Johnson and Perry.

And after that look at Little. When your starting 4 is in foul trouble and then fouls out you have to play with different combination's on the floor.

Marquette also played mostly a 4 guard line-up. Hence why so many Dayton guards saw action. Good luck guarding James, McNeal, Matthews, Cubillan, and Acker all night without going deep into your bench.

12 deep does not mean everyone plays equal minutes. It means you have 12 guys that can step in and get the job done. As you saw in the Marquette game, Dayton can do that. Steven Thomas, as the third PG, has played extremely well. Williams' minutes will continue to increase as he gets into shape, and Mickey Perry's will likely decline if he doesn't start hitting shots. That's ok. We know Mickey is still capable of coming in and playing good D. Williams missed 10 weeks, from late August through October... the absolute worst time for a frosh to miss. He's just now getting to the point where he can step on the floor.

And think...it would likely be 13 with a healthy Benson.

[AdamtheFlyer]

There's a saying in football, "when you have 2 quarterbacks, you really have none" so I'm not as sold that being 12 deep is a good thing, even if you say its legit. If UD struggles at some point, it could lead to more finger pointing and eventually transfers. If UD hasn't whittled their rotation down to 10 by the end of January, it'll be a bad sign for the team.

That being said, in a season where A10 wins have been few and far between, the Marquette win is very impressive. Until X gets healthy, I'd say Dayton has the best team in the league.

It's possible, but I feel confident in this being Wright and Johnson's team. When a loss or two eventually happens, they'll come out and shoulder the blame. Wright said he was "embarrassed" by his own performance in the Wofford game. So far, it seems to be a team where everyone is beginning to understand their role, and relishes in personal accountability.

It's not a matter of everyone playing equal minutes and heading to Marion's for a pizza party after the game. Dayton has 12 guys that, when their number is called, appear to be fully capable of getting the job done. I'll give you Williams for now, but in a month or so I think he'll be seeing significant minutes. He looked pretty good against Auburn and Marquette...just couldn't hit a shot. They'll start falling sooner than later, I'd imagine.

As far as people transferring...we should be so lucky as to have a talented, contributing player leave because he's been beaten out by 9 or 10 better options. You never want that to happen, but it's a reality that no program is immune. That's not something I worry about. Not with the talent BG has brought, and is bringing in the next few years (especially if he can lock up Payne).

[PMI]

I still don't think at this point in the season you can determine that there are 12 guys that can "step in and get the job done." Look at Adrion Graves last year, for example. At this point last season we all considered him to be a legitimate part of the depth chart, and I don't remember if he even saw a minute in the postseason. We were saying the same thing about how even though the shots aren't falling, we can rely on him for other things until it happens, but it didn't happen.

The rotation for the Flyers will likely go down to 9 or 10, and if injuries or foul trouble cause the 11th or 12th guys to come in, who knows how they'll play, not being used to seeing many game minutes. Dayton may have a rare team with 12 guys that can get the job done I suppose, but I think you may be seeing things slightly through the homer lenses if you are counting on it.

[xu95]

I was surprised at the outcome after the game when I saw that Dayton went 0-24 from 3 the night before. However, good win.

xu95

[etyahla24]

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3739581&name=ncbexperts&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3739581%26name%3dncbe xperts

just alittle thing i ran across on espn. :rolleyes: