Atlantic 10 Basketball - F'in Weak!!!

[Xaveriana]

I think back to how excited I was to learn that Xavier from the MCC was invited to join the powerful A-10. UMass was #1, Temple was a perennial power, GW was good and kind of felt like playing in the Olympics when you stepped on the floor with them. But oh how times have changed. I’ll admit that XU's success would probably have not been possible in the MCC (aka Horizon League). Another fact is that Xavier does not have a better option than the A10 at this time.

After reading some of the recent posts about the poor showing by our conference brethren in this early season, I thought some deeper analysis may be in order. I was surprised to see two things in my analysis--the weak ass schedules of most of the A-10 teams and the weak ass talent being displayed by those teams (as seen in their records).

I have attached my analysis on the A-10 as of Thanksgiving Day. I do list RPI's from CBS Sportsline as a data point for comparison, but understand that their value early in the season is minimal and question if they ever have value.

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UPDATED as of 6:45 AM - Saturday, Nov 29

Xavier (5-0; RPI-6)
Wins: IPFW (177), Toledo (229), Missouri (77), Virginia Tech (152), Memphis (48)
Loses: None

Dayton (5-0; RPI-45)
Wins: Wofford (21), Delaware State (223), Bethune-Cookman (252), Mercer (16), Auburn (58)
Loses: None

Rhode Island (5-1; RPI-63)
Wins: Brown (186), Monmouth (301), Virginia Commonwealth (178), Hartford (140), Penn State (84)
Loses: Duke (9)

Duquesne (4-1; RPI-193)
Wins: High Point (221), St. Francis-PA (184), Furman (336), USC Upstate (196)
Loses: Duke (9)

Temple (3-1; RPI-8)
Wins: East Tennessee State (81), Charleston (59), Lafayette (147)
Loses: Clemson (2)

George Washington (3-1; RPI-27)
Wins: Boston University (75), Binghamton (329), UMBC (122)
Loses: Auburn (58)

Richmond (3-2; RPI-113)
Wins: Randolph-Macon (Non D1), Florida Gulf Coast (308), UMKC (133)
Loses: Syracuse (5), Bradley (157)

St. Bonaventure (3-2; RPI-144)
Wins: Robert Morris (288), Marist (269), Rutgers (185)
Loses: Delaware (211), Mississippi State (44)

Saint Louis (2-2; RPI-64)
Wins: Missouri-St. Louis (Non D1), Boston College (80)
Loses: Kent State (43), Nebraska (49)

La Salle (2-3; RPI-159)
Wins: Morgan State (213), Valparaiso (304)
Loses: Florida State (115), Connecticut (11), Southern Miss (91)

Saint Joseph's (2-3; RPI-202)
Wins: Rider (49), Indiana (180)
Loses: Holy Cross (274), Texas (51), Alabama (248)

Massachusetts (1-3; RPI-313)
Wins: Ark Monticello (Non D1)
Loses: Southern Illinois (227), Memphis (48), Jacksonville State (179)

Charlotte (1-5; RPI-250)
Wins: UNC Greensboro (340)
Loses: Old Dominion (255), Appalachian State (242), Clemson (2), Arizona State (131), Providence (162)

Fordham (0-4; RPI-321)
Wins: None
Loses: Columbia (271), Villanova (68), Manhattan (230), Princeton (281)

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Finally, I need to get couple things off my chest about the A-10 Website. Hey A-10, when your power team knocks off the defending national runner-up, you may want to add something to your homepage, not an article on A-10 women's volleyball. Hey A-10, can you please get the Men's Basketball Standing correct & list them in order of success not alpha order--Fordam is 0-4, not 1-3 and Richmond is 3-2, not 4-1. Idiots! :mad:

I guess last year's early season A-10 success against power conferences was an anomaly. Weak! :(

[PMI]

I think the rest of the programs just gave up once we joined. I too am very sick of thinking the conference is improving and then just going through the same old story again. There's no reason for the A10 not to be a good conference, yet we have been the only consistently good team since we've joined. Teams like Charlotte and SLU have seen their programs go downhill since joining the league. It's pathetic.

[XU Fan]

I am not a fan of the A10 either, but I like the way it has helped Xavier. It isn't a great conference, but it is good enough that it gets at least a bit of respect, enough that Xavier's success during the conference season isn't completely discounted. In my mind, the whole season is about getting into the NCAA tournament. X has had plenty of success in that regard. X has a pretty good gig going, not a lot different than Memphis has in CUSA.

Suppose X was in the Big East. That would be great and all, but you'd be battling your ass off every game. Sure, you'd probably be able to recruit a bit easier, but it isn't like X is having a ton of trouble finding high level talent right now. It seems to me that X has carved out a helluva great place for themselves that they wouldn't have if they were in a better conference. They will probably not lose many conference games. Xavier's record heading into the tournament will be very good, and it will be better than it would be if they were in the Big East. I agree with you about the A10 being pretty lame, but it seems to be a pretty good route to the dance, and for me that is what it is all about.

[waggy]

First, citing RPI numbers in any capacity at this stage of the season is a complete waste of time. Talking about whether certain wins are good are bad - open for debate - but you don't need RPI numbers to do that. Some thoughts...

Thankfully it appears Dunphy is going to be very good at Temple, though I think there is still a question how good of a recruiter he is. Not suggesting he isn't good, but it is an uncertainty. Christmas is an automatic 20+ points, and that's a lot of production that will be gone next year.

Charlotte not only needs a new coach, but they need to focus on the basketball program. I'm wondering how much a D1 football program costs, and if that money (or some portion thereof) were put into mens basketball how good they could be? I can't see X putting up with the results that Lutz has delivered, and I think that is very telling.

UMass and Rhody have some advantages given their size and being public, but there are disadvantages too. They can't approach their programs like X might. I think the best that can be expected is up and down results - kind of like what we have seen.

Dayton will never be a ratings drag on the conference.

SLU has not changed much performance-wise from the their days in CUSA. I don't the numbers, but my perception is they are about the same. They have been a positive addition definitely, and with a new on campus arena should get better. They are also not a drag.

What can be said about the rest of the programs?.. D1 mens basketball is just a tough business. There are only 34-35 at large berths. Coaches are planning their exit as soon as they have a good season at most of these programs, because they recognize maintaining performance is going to be difficult. Unfortunately, performance is measured in NCAA berths, and they are very tough to earn.

What this conference needs is more consistancy. Programs don't have to be as good as X, but they need to raise their games at least some, and maintain it on a consistent level. There are too many up and down seasons. Too many complete meltdowns.

It is difficult to watch some of these programs when you know they could be better. Some of the loses they pile up are just mind-boggling. I'll continue to watch and suffer in doing so because X is connected to them. And regardless of each individual teams performance, the bottomline is that the A10 has been more than good enough for X to excel, and I don't doubt this will continue. In a perverse sort of way it is fun pulling for A10 teams despite their foibles, because the conference does hold a unique place in college ball.

Happy Thanksgiving all. ;)

[AdamtheFlyer]

The A10 is the best place for Xavier (and Dayton) to be. It obviously doesn't hinder building a great team, recruiting, or fan interest. You know going in that 20 wins is very achievable, and the league is generally tough enough to put you in at-large competition with good performance.

Jump to a bigger league and suddenly you have to compete for their recruits only or have inferior talent to 2/3 of the league. Better competition breeds more losses, so a 25 win A10 season may become 19 in the BE. 12-4 league record becomes 10-8 with the same team. The chances of winning the league decline a bunch, and the sample size against the best teams in the country rises. The 8 games you might play vs the Top 50 becomes 15, making each win devalued. I'd rather go 6-2 than 9-6 vs the top whatever with a handful of extra wins under your belt when it comes time for the field to be selected.

Come to think of it...if I'm Providence...I'm wondering why the heck I'm not in the A10. Let's cut the dead weight (Fordham, Duquesne...) and try to lure Providence, DePaul, etc...when the BE inevitably breaks along football money lines. Suddenly you have a better league without getting in above your head. When the BE goes break, it will be due to the non-football and non-hoops power teams want too much of the pie. That could leave Providence, Seton Hall, and DePaul for us to grab in the A10. Be dead weight could have a pulse in our league. Get to work, Bernadette.

[jdm2000]

Looking at the records you've laid out, I have to say a couple things.

1. The league has not been quite as bad as I thought. X, UD, Duqeusne, Temple, and Rhody have all been very solid.

2. Exactly who is coming up with LaSalle's schedule? I'd rather see them take a Duquesne approach for the good of the conference--beat a lot of sisters of the poor rather than play good teams and get hammered (though I understand they're better than they have been).

3. The real drags are a pain -- UMass, St. Joe's, Fordham. The league needs UMass and St. Joe's to be good--not necessarily great, but good. Plus, those two teams--along with X and Temple Dayton--have a disproportionate effect ont he A10's perception and reputation, because they are the most likely sources for decent out of conference wins (because they can get some pretty decent out of conference games). So it's even worse that those two are down at the bottom.

4. It's still early, but it's not a great start so far. About what one woudl expect, though.

[jdm2000]

Oh, and Charlotte. A complete debacle!

[vee4xu]

Dookane is currently getting ripped by Dook 33-15 with 7:45 left in the first half in Durham.

[Snipe]

We need Dayton to get some big wins tonight and tommorow in the Chicago Suburbia Challenge.

Let's Go Flyers!

[nuts4xu]

Let's Go Flyers!

What the duck is this about?

Never on my drunkest bender would I say this and mean it. Thor--put Snipe on probation for this traveshamockery of a post.

Our fate has very little to do with the success of dayton. We are the flagship of this conference and ud is our annoying little brother. You don't have to root for them because they are a non factor. We set up our non con schedule to make the conference schedule to mean less and less every year. We take care of business in the non con, and do what we do in conference, and it won't mean shit how the rest of this leaguy plays.

I am disapointed in you right now Snipe. Pablo is rolling his eyes at you from up above I am sure of it.

[vee4xu]

I'm with you nuts. The words go and dayton never appear in the same sentence for me, unless the words "to hell" are inserted between go and dayton.

[Xaveriana]

Don't know what to read into this announcement. Does this mean CBS has faith in the A10 getting better? Does this mean they can't get enough Xavier? Does this mean Bernadette V. McGlade and/or Learfield Sports are already having an impact? Or, all the above? Regardless, it's sounds positive for the A10. :)

From Atlantic 10.com: http://atlantic10.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/112508aac.html

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/xavi/sports/m-baskbl/auto_wide/2535912.jpeg

Nov. 25, 2008

PHILADELPHIA, Pa. - The Atlantic 10 Conference and CBS Sports today announced a multi-year agreement for CBS to air the league's men's basketball championship final, beginning in 2010.

"We are extremely excited to partner with CBS Sports for our men's basketball championship," says A-10 commissioner Bernadette V. McGlade. "To have our champion crowned on the most exciting day of the college basketball season - Selection Sunday - speaks volumes to the respect that the Atlantic 10 has on a national level. Our student-athletes, coaches, and administrators will benefit greatly."

[Xaveriana]

Looks like Dayton ain't so f'in weak. Glad to see some other A10 team doing something.