Charlotte leaving A10?

[Juice]

From Katz's blog:


Charlotte moved to add football to its athletic department. If that occurs by 2013, I could definitely foresee a long-term move by Charlotte back to a more natural destination in Conference USA.

Does anyone have any more info on this?

I think Charlotte could still stay in the A10. Look at Temple, they play in the MAC and seem to have a good situation for both basketball and football. Hopefully Charlotte can find a conference that will take them for football only.

[Masterofreality]

I could see them moving back to Convict USA. East Carolina is in that league and would be a natural rival.

As much as we like them, the A-10 was a fall back positiion for them a couple of years ago since CUSA required football.

Let's just dump LaSuck at the same time and get to the "Atlantic 12".

[GoMuskies]

I think Charlotte wants out. They blame the A-10 for their program tanking.

[XU 87]

Charlotte has added very little since joining the A-10. The same goes for SLU. That may change in the future, but for now neither has done much since joining.

[DAllen15]

CUSA actually makes more sense for Charlotte, especially with its adding Div. I football.

The only reason Temple's in the MAC for football is that they were unceremoniously booted out of the Big East, and couldn't find another conference to take their program.

SLU should align itself with the MVC schools, IMHO.

[XU 87]

As good as the MVC has been of late, the league still consists primarily consist of either private schools or second tier state schools in small tv markets. I suspect that's why SLU came to the A-10.

But you guys are probably right about Charlotte. They came to the A-10 because they had no other options. And the move hasn't worked out well, to say the least.

[Muskie]

As good as the MVC has been of late, the league still consists primarily consist of either private schools or second tier state schools in small tv markets. I suspect that's why SLU came to the A-10.

But you guys are probably right about Charlotte. They came to the A-10 because they had no other options. And the move hasn't worked out well, to say the least.

There is a contigency of SLU fans that want MVC.

[wkrq59]

Like it or not, the A10 is due to undergo some big changes, especially in men's basketball.
It makes little sense for Charlotte to remain, especially with the onset of D1 football soon.
And don't be too surprised if Charlotte is not joined by Temple. CUSA would make a lot more sense for them in both major sports than the MAC for football only.
I would hate to see that, but it makes a little sense. I doubt the A10 will ever get rid of two thorns, LaSalle and Fordham.
Also, the day might come when the A10 adds football as an official sport and yes, Xavier would be part of that equation.
Think this way UMass, Rhode Island, Fordham, Duquesne, LaSalle, Richmond and Dayton__Did I forget anybody?--all have D1AA non-scholarship football. That's seven schools. One more would make a workable league.
Of the remaining seven, St. Louis, Xavier, St. Bonaventure, Charlotte, GW, St. Joseph, and Temple, which plays D1A or BCS football, which one is more likely to begin football play if Charlotte and Temple (If the latter wants to stay in D1A go to the CUSA for both sports.)?
I'd hate to see Xavier add fb even though I love the sport because I believe it would drain money from basketball, which has brought X a higher profile nationally than it ever has had. But don't be surprised if it happens, because there is an undercurrent movement here in town now to bring it back.:D

[XUOHTX]

Like it or not, the A10 is due to undergo some big changes, especially in men's basketball.
It makes little sense for Charlotte to remain, especially with the onset of D1 football soon.
And don't be too surprised if Charlotte is not joined by Temple. CUSA would make a lot more sense for them in both major sports than the MAC for football only.
I would hate to see that, but it makes a little sense. I doubt the A10 will ever get rid of two thorns, LaSalle and Fordham.
Also, the day might come when the A10 adds football as an official sport and yes, Xavier would be part of that equation.
Think this way UMass, Rhode Island, Fordham, Duquesne, LaSalle, Richmond and Dayton__Did I forget anybody?--all have D1AA non-scholarship football. That's seven schools. One more would make a workable league.
Of the remaining seven, St. Louis, Xavier, St. Bonaventure, Charlotte, GW, St. Joseph, and Temple, which plays D1A or BCS football, which one is more likely to begin football play if Charlotte and Temple (If the latter wants to stay in D1A go to the CUSA for both sports.)?
I'd hate to see Xavier add fb even though I love the sport because I believe it would drain money from basketball, which has brought X a higher profile nationally than it ever has had. But don't be surprised if it happens, because there is an undercurrent movement here in town now to bring it back.:D

Boy is that a loaded post. There are so many issues you touched on that my head is spinning.

[GoMuskies]

I appreciate not letting facts get in the way of an argument, but:

UMass definitely plays scholarship football.
I am almost certain that Rhode's program is also a scholarship program.
Richmond - schloarships
LaSalle - no football

[Billy]

There is a contigency of SLU fans that want MVC.

There is also a contigency of Xavier fans who wouldn't mind that.

(Raising my hand)

[waggy]

Is there any program that one Xavier fan or another hasn't wanted out of the A10? This includes X itself.

[DAllen15]

It would be nice if conferences returned to what they used to be, which was a collection of similar, and geographically-concentrated, schools. Now, too many conferences, the A10 included, don't really make much sense other than "it was the only conference we could get in at the time".

[STL_XUfan]

There is a contigency of SLU fans that want MVC.


Lead by their head coach.

[Stonebreaker]

I could see Charlotte moving out. That would not be good for the A-10 or X.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Like it or not, the A10 is due to undergo some big changes, especially in men's basketball.
It makes little sense for Charlotte to remain, especially with the onset of D1 football soon.
And don't be too surprised if Charlotte is not joined by Temple. CUSA would make a lot more sense for them in both major sports than the MAC for football only.
I would hate to see that, but it makes a little sense. I doubt the A10 will ever get rid of two thorns, LaSalle and Fordham.
Also, the day might come when the A10 adds football as an official sport and yes, Xavier would be part of that equation.
Think this way UMass, Rhode Island, Fordham, Duquesne, LaSalle, Richmond and Dayton__Did I forget anybody?--all have D1AA non-scholarship football. That's seven schools. One more would make a workable league.
Of the remaining seven, St. Louis, Xavier, St. Bonaventure, Charlotte, GW, St. Joseph, and Temple, which plays D1A or BCS football, which one is more likely to begin football play if Charlotte and Temple (If the latter wants to stay in D1A go to the CUSA for both sports.)?
I'd hate to see Xavier add fb even though I love the sport because I believe it would drain money from basketball, which has brought X a higher profile nationally than it ever has had. But don't be surprised if it happens, because there is an undercurrent movement here in town now to bring it back.:D

But would it be scholarship football? Can X afford scholarship football? Dayton will never align itself with a football A10 because it's not going to have scholarship football. They're fine in non-scholly land Pioneer League. They consider football as a net neutral investment, the tuition of the players + any revenue football generates roughly equals the expenditures. That's why it works.

If Charlotte has plans of going FBS in football down the road, they won't be in the A10 for much longer. They'll almost certainly end up back in C-USA.

I don't see SLU being a long term A10 team, either. I believe they are earmarked for the MVC, and with their new arena and facilities, they will become a more viable option for that league.

Unless the "Catholic League" ever comes to fruition, I can't see Xavier or UD leaving the A10. Both schools draw from the East Coast and venture to do more, and the A10 gives them that exposure. Dayton and Xavier were added to the league when the A10 did have football as an official sport. It's FCS football, ie not a money making venture, which means its effects are irrelevant to basketball.

[Cheesehead]

I do not believe that XU will bring back football any time in the near future.

[wkrq59]

UMass sold it's financial soul to try to compete in 1AA playoffs and lost big time. There has been talk of cutting their losses and joining the non-scholarship teams. Rhody is in the same boat.
I thought I saw a LaSalle football score late Saturday night. Unfortunately I don't have my NCAA colleges and universities guide, but I know where to find one. Richmond has been competing on the same level as UMass and Rhody, and hasn't been all that successful of late. We're talking money and saving it these days.
Those seven schools joining together just makes sense. And it's not my idea, either. I could give a rat's a$$.
As far as Xavier is concerned, the football talk and rumors will keep flying as long as the females outnumber the males and the disparity keeps growing greater with each class.
BTW, the very reason Mt. St. Joseph started a football program was to attract larger numbers of male students. It worked.
I love football but that said, I'd hate like hell to see the sport come back to X on a fulltime, intercollegiate level because of what it could do to basketball. But, again, money may be the big determiner.

[Masterofreality]

Sorry, Q.

LaSuck dropped football last year after failing miserably at it.

[Billy]

LaSuck dropped football last year after failing miserably at it.

The might want to consider dropping basketball, too, for the exact same reason.

[AdamtheFlyer]

I give LaSalle some credit. Dr G has improved the team and might have the best recruiting class in the league coming in next year. I think they'll be around the middle of the pack this year, and could push for a top 4 spot in the league next year.

I think Weldaventure and Fordham are killing this league more than LaSalle. At least LaSalle has put forth some credible evidence that they are improving. I put LaSalle higher than Duquesne, too. The Dukes have shown nothing but a bush league 10/40 style that stole them a few wins and made people think they were better. Then everyone left.

[ATL Muskie]

Charlotte.... damn quitters.

[GoMuskies]

I think St. Bonny has always shown appropriate level of commitment to their program (except when they were cheating, of course). They'll be a fine, mid-tier A-10 program soon enough (maybe even this year). I think Duquesne is in good shape with Ron Everhart in charge.

[jdm2000]

Many people think highly of Everhart.

[DC Muskie]

Charlotte is in the A-10?

[ATL Muskie]

Charlotte is in the A-10?

No, she's in your trunk. Sinner.

[XU 87]

I suppose one way to look at things is that every conference could use a few bottom feeders to beat up on. the Big Ten has Northwestern and Penn State.

The problem with the A-10 is that close to 1/3rd of the conference could be considered bottom feeders - Duquesne, St. Bonny, LaSalle, Fordham and to a smaller extent maybe Richmond. It's tough to have a strong conference when 1/3rd of the conference sucks on a regular basis, particularly when the rest of the conference, other than Xavier, has up and down years.

Northwestern and Penn State don't really affect the overall competiveness of the Big Ten because the Big Ten will usually have 5 or 6 teams that are good to great. The A-10 doesn't have those consistently top teams (other than Xavier). So the A-10 constant bottom feeders make things that much worse. And the bottom feeders never pick up the slack when the better A-10 teams are down.

[GuyFawkes38]

I hate SLU. Do they really think the MVC has better teams than the A10. Are Wichita St., N. Iowa and Evansville really the type of teams SLU wants to be associated with?

It's one thing to have a crappy basketball program. But it's sucks on an even higher level to be a crappy bball program playing in the middle of nowhere.

And the Majerus hire was awful. Majerus would have been a great hire 20 years ago. Now SLU is overpaying for a coach who will be gone in 2 years.

SLU is headed nowhere.

[AdamtheFlyer]

I hate SLU. Do they really think the MVC has better teams than the A10. Are Wichita St., N. Iowa and Evansville really the type of teams SLU wants to be associated with?

It's one thing to have a crappy basketball program. But it's sucks on an even higher level to be a crappy bball program playing in the middle of nowhere.

And the Majerus hire was awful. Majerus would have been a great hire 20 years ago. Now SLU is overpaying for a coach who will be gone in 2 years.

SLU is headed nowhere.

Let's just cherry pick a bad program like Evansville, while ignoring that SLU is currently associated with Fordham, Duquesne, La Salle, and St Bona. That's intelligent.

The MVC is a very good league. Creighton, SLU, Missouri St, UNI, Wichita St, Bradley, ISU...all are quality programs that compete with the big boys very well. It's a league that consistently is putting 2-4 teams in the dance, with 7 or so teams capable of making the dance each year.

In fact, it's pretty damn similar to our own league, and makes perfect geographical sense for them. In reality, only UD, Charlotte, and X have a history with SLU, and I'd be willing to bet they'd be more than welcoming to the idea of playing these teams OOC. They played UD and X when they were in C-USA.

SLU moving to the MVC one day actually makes so much sense, it may not happen.

[GuyFawkes38]

The MVC is a very good league. Creighton, SLU, Missouri St, UNI, Wichita St, Bradley, ISU...all are quality programs that compete with the big boys very well.


uggghh. Do those teams have bright futures in the longterm? It seems like geography will play catch up with them and their spectacular output in the past 5 years.

But I agree with you that it does make geographic sense for SLU to be in the MVC (and they could develop real rivalries).

[GoMuskies]

What do Rhode Island, Xavier, Temple, UMass and St. Joe's all have in common with no one in the MVC?

All have been to the Elite Eight or deeper at least once since Xavier joined the A-10 in '95. If SLU wants to join that distinguished group, they should probably hang out in our neighborhood and not Evansville's.

Not that I care. SLU being the A-10 makes no sense geographically, and I don't think we'd exactly miss them if they left. They haven't added anything yet (not to say they won't).

[Jumpy]

I suppose one way to look at things is that every conference could use a few bottom feeders to beat up on. the Big Ten has Northwestern and Penn State.

The problem with the A-10 is that close to 1/3rd of the conference could be considered bottom feeders - Duquesne, St. Bonny, LaSalle, Fordham and to a smaller extent maybe Richmond. It's tough to have a strong conference when 1/3rd of the conference sucks on a regular basis, particularly when the rest of the conference, other than Xavier, has up and down years.

Northwestern and Penn State don't really affect the overall competiveness of the Big Ten because the Big Ten will usually have 5 or 6 teams that are good to great. The A-10 doesn't have those consistently top teams (other than Xavier). So the A-10 constant bottom feeders make things that much worse. And the bottom feeders never pick up the slack when the better A-10 teams are down.


That bottom 1/3rd isn't just perenially bad, they are buy games for other conferneces. We need to get out of this conference.

[XU 87]

That bottom 1/3rd isn't just perenially bad, they are buy games for other conferneces. We need to get out of this conference.

In theory, that's not a bad idea. But what conference does Xavier go to? Right now, there's nowhere else to go.

And to play devil's advocate, maybe it's a good thing to be the big fish in a small pond. Ask Memphis. For that matter, ask UC how they like playing in the Big East right now.

Maybe the solution is stay in the A-10 and get rid of at least two of the bottom feeders. I would vote to get rid of St. Bonny (small market) and LaSalle (terrible program in a market where we have two other teams).

But this is all rhetorical. I don't see the league kicking any of the teams out.

[GoMuskies]

I'm still trying to figure out how the A-10 is holding us down.

[XU 87]

I'm still trying to figure out how the A-10 is holding us down.

"Holding us down" may be too strong of a term, but the conference has been a detriment at times. Xavier has lost some top recruits because the recruit wanted to play in a Big 6 Conference. If you are a 17 year old high school kid, would you rather be playing against Indiana and Michigan State or would you rather be playing against LaSalle and Duquesne?

It's a tougher sell. Sean's certainly been able to make the sale at times. But it's still a tougher sale. And it's a sale that Sean has lost at times primarily because of the conference.

[DAllen15]

I'm sure you're right, 87, but as of now, X has no chance whatsoever of getting in a Big Six conference, so there's not much point in talking about where we'd like to be. To me, it makes more sense to discuss streamlining and improving the A10.

[XU 87]

I agree.

And could someone please change this "ten character" rule?

[xu95]

"Holding us down" may be too strong of a term, but the conference has been a detriment at times. Xavier has lost some top recruits because the recruit wanted to play in a Big 6 Conference. If you are a 17 year old high school kid, would you rather be playing against Indiana and Michigan State or would you rather be playing against LaSalle and Duquesne?

It's a tougher sell. Sean's certainly been able to make the sale at times. But it's still a tougher sale. And it's a sale that Sean has lost at times primarily because of the conference.

But we would have never got a verbal from the Freaser if we were still in the Horizon. The A-10 is the best choice for us and will continue to be the best choice UNLESS one of the BCS conferences come calling. I am not holding my breath on that one.

xu95

[blobfan]

So we just need Sean to stick around long enough to take us to the Final Four a couple times, then get us in a new conference. Of course, if we move to a stronger conference, he may never leave us.

I like that idea.

[GoMuskies]

Why must he leave if we don't switch conferences? Denny Crum was at Louisville 30 years and was never in one of the power conferences. Ray Meyer was at DePaul even longer in the same situation. John Calipari isn't going to leave Memphis for another college job. Mark Few seems pretty content in Spokane. John Chaney was at Temple forever. Phil Martelli anyone?

There's no reason Miller couldn't coach 30 years at Xavier with the Muskies in the A-10 the entire time.

[Swifty]

They have lost back to back to a CAA and a Southern conference school. At this point I really don't care if they leave. They have added nothing to the conference, and their win over UMass in last year's A-10 tourney might have cost the league another bid.

[mr. zimpher]

That bottom 1/3rd isn't just perenially bad, they are buy games for other conferneces. We need to get out of this conference.


I had this conversation with my buddy the other night while at the game. I'll be honest, i've been on both sides of this fence. I think i'm convinced of the final conclusion that we can achieve anything we want while being a member of the A10. While a member of the A10, we have won 20 games in almost every season, we've reached two elite eights, we've produced a national POY, we've finished as high as 7 in post-season polls, getting major program recognition, and we've signed recruits that are on par with any major conference players. This conference has the ability to get as many 4 bids in a given year. Multiple elite eights from the A10 in the past decade. Do we really want/need to leave the A10? I hate to make the comparison but look at our "friends" from Clifton. I know they went through a major regime change when they entered the Big East but still... their program is decimated right now. Even with the coaching change, if they were still in CUSA they probably would've made the tourney in Kennedy's year and maybe last year assuming they would've won more conference games there than in the Big East. Hell Depaul used to sniff the tournament every couple of years in CUSA, now they can't win more than 7 conference games. Now look at Memphis. Memphis stayed back in CUSA and have flourished now more than ever. They dominate their conference every year but are respected enough to play everyone in the non-conference. They get high seeds, they advance deep, and they sign the best talent in the country. They seem to do just fine where they are. Gonzaga seems to thrive as well. You don't see them clamoring to be in the Pac10.

[muskienick]

I believe the A-10 is the permanent place for us. But the majority of the programs in the A-10 has to use its influence to make the '10' in A-10 a reality again.

I personally see nothing wrong with StL in our League. CUSA has existed now for quite a few years while consisting of programs from very distant parts of the Country. If you are going to point out St. Louis as a geographical misfit in the A-10, how can you not include the likes of UD and XU in that same category?

As far as Charlotte is concerned, they have a very long way to go ($-wise) before scholarship football takes hold there. They must raise millions of dollars in a relatively short time as I understood the press release. Remember, they bailed from CUSA as quickly as possible because of distance and a lack of national competitiveness with the losses of UC, Marquette, Louisville, and, to a lesser degree, Depaul and South Florida. What's changed since then? Furthermore, Memphis is the next logical member of either the SEC or the Big 12 should either of them get rid of the likes of a Vandy (even though they are bowl eligible for the first time since Loni Anderson wore a training bra), Mississippi State, Iowa State, or Baylor. If Charlotte joins CUSA, does anybody in their right mind think that would be any enticement for Memphis to say "No" to the Big 12 or SEC?

As others have suggested, the A-10 would be a fine Conference with Charlotte, Dayton, George Washington, UMass, Rhode Island, Richmond, St. Joe's, St. Louis, Temple, and Xavier. As a matter of fact, I think it has all the potential of an early Big East. An A-10 of that caliber could make everybody start to have to refer to Big-Time NCAA Basketball as "The Big Seven."