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xeus
11-12-2008, 10:48 AM
Are you kidding me? This is getting WAY out of control. What a complete joke if American Express gets a dime from the gov't. (Same goes for the auto industry for that matter.)

$3.5 billion (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081112/american_express_ahead_of_the_bell.html?.v=1)

Discuss.

The Artist
11-12-2008, 11:24 AM
Weird. Perhaps I've been living under a rock, but I didn't realize any credit card company was in that much trouble (relatively).

XU05and07
11-12-2008, 11:26 AM
Weird. Perhaps I've been living under a rock, but I didn't realize any credit card company was in that much trouble (relatively).

They are trying to set themselves up as a holding company so that they can get money from the bailout...my thinking is that they are trying to raise capital so that they can buy up companies that are struggling and expand their business overall

dc_x
11-12-2008, 11:34 AM
They are trying to set themselves up as a holding company so that they can get money from the bailout...my thinking is that they are trying to raise capital so that they can buy up companies that are struggling and expand their business overall

AmEx needs cash to just survive.

Visa and Mastercard will be fine - they don't bear any credit risk.

The question is whether an AmEx failure would pose systemic risk to the financial system...IMO, the answer is no.

XUglow
11-12-2008, 11:43 AM
The government opened this can of worms. Time to tweak the system and let eveyone know that tough times are just tough times and not an opportunity to soak the government.

I am sure that I will have to lay people off in 2009. I hate it, but the orders just aren't there. I am sure that I can survive the slowdown, but I am going to have to right-size the business so that expenses are in line with revenues.

I think the problem that John Q. Public has with the GM and Ford bailouts is that the purpose for these bailouts is to allow those companies to delay making inevitable cuts. Isn't it just bad business to subsidize bad business practices continuing?

AIG is in trouble for yet another boondoggle meeting at a golf resort in Arizona. Their story is that they have a right to market their products. If they are so un-clever as to not be able to market their wares in any other way, then they deserve to go under. I love it when companies invite me to pro-ams and other golf outtings, but I do business with those companies because of what they offer my company and not because of what I get on the side. It is nice. It isn't necessary.

ATL Muskie
11-12-2008, 11:46 AM
I can't wait for other companies like GM and Ford to step forward and claim they are holding companies just so they can have a turn at the corporate welfare trough.

XU 87
11-12-2008, 11:49 AM
GM, Ford and Chrysler have fundamental labor problems. The bottom line is that they all pay too much in labor costs/per automobile when compared with their competitors. Even if they get another government handout (they just got $25 billion) their fundamental problems will still exist.

And where do we draw the line if the Big 3 get a bailout? Does Circuit City get one too? How about Starbucks? How about my firm?

Our system is such that if you're a bad business, you fail. The Big 3 are bad businesses. On the other hand, Toyota is a good business.

And a company declaring bankruptcy does not automatically mean the company is going out of business. Look at Delta and Northwest.

xu95
11-12-2008, 12:27 PM
They should give money to every company. It is the Obama way. On a side note, Scott Sloan on WLW this morning told me to quit making my mortgage payments and buy a boat. Congress will make the payments for me. I love this country.

xu95

The Artist
11-12-2008, 12:58 PM
They should give money to every company. It is the Obama way. On a side note, Scott Sloan on WLW this morning told me to quit making my mortgage payments and buy a boat. Congress will make the payments for me. I love this country.

xu95

As he has shown time and time again.

xeus
11-12-2008, 01:18 PM
As he has shown time and time again.

Exactly ... he has shown us absolutely nothing, but some want to give him a national holiday. I find that hilarious.

Although he has shown us nothing, he has said a great deal, including that he wants to "spread the wealth around."

Bottom line is that this government handout crap is ridiculous. Seriously, American Express needs $3.5 billion of taxpayer money? That's a joke, right?

Artist, instead of making this about Obama and what he hasn't done, what is your position on government handouts to corporations?

American X
11-12-2008, 01:19 PM
AmEx needs cash to just survive.

The question is whether an AmEx failure would pose systemic risk to the financial system.

Hey, bitches cost money. AmeX needs to get paid.

The answer to your question is yes. A failure of AmeX would collapse the system.

Fortunately for you, failure is not an option for AmeX.

Snipe
11-12-2008, 01:38 PM
GM, Ford and Chrysler have fundamental labor problems. The bottom line is that they all pay too much in labor costs/per automobile when compared with their competitors. Even if they get another government handout (they just got $25 billion) their fundamental problems will still exist.



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KuvBvj3N_3E/SRfRjobiujI/AAAAAAAAAA4/58tCcgDdt50/s400/wages.jpg

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/11/should-we-really-bail-out-7320-per-hour.html

xeus
11-12-2008, 01:45 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KuvBvj3N_3E/SRfRjobiujI/AAAAAAAAAA4/58tCcgDdt50/s400/wages.jpg

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/11/should-we-really-bail-out-7320-per-hour.html

That graph alone is enough to make me want to puke. Let those idiots file Ch 11. Seriously - $146,400? Good riddance to the outdated and unnecessary union shop. All unions do, and the only reason they exist, is to self-perpetuate themselves. They are, for all intents and purposes obselete. And not only that, they are destroying the viability of the American manufacturing sector.

Snipe
11-12-2008, 01:47 PM
Scott Sloan on WLW this morning told me to quit making my mortgage payments and buy a boat. Congress will make the payments for me. I love this country.

xu95

No doubt right now some people are deciding to stop paying their mortgage. The Govt is only helping people that are 90 days behind on their mortgages. Be sure to read the rules to see if you qualify before you stop paying on your mortgage. People are going to work the system, and those that pay their bills on time are going to be the ones that pay for it. It makes me sick.


Exactly ... he has shown us absolutely nothing, but some want to give him a national holiday. I find that hilarious.



He has written two books about himself Xeus, that has to count as something.

All this bailout mania is whack. Isn't this the politics of fear we always hear about? "We need massive government handouts or the whole economy is going to collapse!".

The moral hazard here is huge and we are going to pay for this bailout for quite some time. This could fundamentally change America.

The Artist
11-12-2008, 01:49 PM
Exactly ... he has shown us absolutely nothing, but some want to give him a national holiday. I find that hilarious.

Although he has shown us nothing, he has said a great deal, including that he wants to "spread the wealth around."

Bottom line is that this government handout crap is ridiculous. Seriously, American Express needs $3.5 billion of taxpayer money? That's a joke, right?

Artist, instead of making this about Obama and what he hasn't done, what is your position on government handouts to corporations?

Whoa it kinda sounds like you're implying I'm the one who made it about Obama, which I hope you aren't.

I really don't have a solid opinion on the matter, mainly because I don't know the full extent of what kind of damage each decision will bring. While I can read what everyone on here has to say about it, I'm unfortunately not going to take it all as fact.

My gut tells me to not bail them out. It would be one thing if some sort of catastrophe happened outside of anyone's control (say - a terrorist bomb hits a huge Ford plant, I wouldn't be against the government giving them a few bucks to get back to where they were), but it seems they've made their beds and now they have to sleep in them.

BUT, you also have to take into account all of the workers - whether it be with the manufacturers, suppliers, whatever. Should they be punished for the idiocy of others? I'm sensing a small parallel to our Crawford discussion, unfortunately the employees can't sit out a year (or not) and then have a guaranteed job.

So, I wish there was a way to bail out the employees, because I feel some of them are victims. But, if you held a gun to my head and forced me to decide, I'd say no bailout.

Snipe
11-12-2008, 01:59 PM
My gut tells me to not bail them out. It would be one thing if some sort of catastrophe happened outside of anyone's control (say - a terrorist bomb hits a huge Ford plant, I wouldn't be against the government giving them a few bucks to get back to where they were), but it seems they've made their beds and now they have to sleep in them.

BUT, you also have to take into account all of the workers - whether it be with the manufacturers, suppliers, whatever. Should they be punished for the idiocy of others? I'm sensing a small parallel to our Crawford discussion, unfortunately the employees can't sit out a year (or not) and then have a guaranteed job.

So, I wish there was a way to bail out the employees, because I feel some of them are victims. But, if you held a gun to my head and forced me to decide, I'd say no bailout.

I am with your gut reaction. I do not believe that we should bail them out.

And not bailing them out does not mean that they cease to exist. Delta went bankrupt and they are still flying. Hell, they just bought another company! Bankruptcy would allow them to restucture their union contracts and wipe out their debt. When they emerge they would be more competative. That is one way the industry could be reborn. Spring always follows winter. Let the creative distruction commence.

xeus
11-12-2008, 02:03 PM
Whoa it kinda sounds like you're implying I'm the one who made it about Obama, which I hope you aren't.

BUT, you also have to take into account all of the workers - whether it be with the manufacturers, suppliers, whatever. Should they be punished for the idiocy of others? I'm sensing a small parallel to our Crawford discussion, unfortunately the employees can't sit out a year (or not) and then have a guaranteed job.

So, I wish there was a way to bail out the employees, because I feel some of them are victims. But, if you held a gun to my head and forced me to decide, I'd say no bailout.

Bankruptcy does not (necessarily) punish workers. A company in bankruptcy can run effectively, often with very little difference from its pre-bankruptcy ways. Obviously significant restructuring needs to take place if these companies are to remain viable, and bankruptcy will force that issue. A government handout will create the same incentive to change that a welfare check does - NONE.

As for suppliers, well, they have to know their own limits and assess risk accordingly. If the Big 3 goes bankrupt, and suppliers are completely dependent on them and also fail, they knew that risk going in. It's just like the many many manufacturers whose only customer is Wal-Mart.

Let these companies fail, restructure in bankruptcy, and learn to compete with the rest of the world. Handing these thugs billions of dollars is a placebo - a very very expensive placebo.

The Artist
11-12-2008, 02:07 PM
Bankruptcy does not (necessarily) punish workers. A company in bankruptcy can run effectively, often with very little difference from its pre-bankruptcy ways. Obviously significant restructuring needs to take place if these companies are to remain viable, and bankruptcy will force that issue. A government handout will create the same incentive to change that a welfare check does - NONE.

As for suppliers, well, they have to know their own limits and assess risk accordingly. If the Big 3 goes bankrupt, and suppliers are completely dependent on them and also fail, they knew that risk going in. It's just like the many many manufacturers whose only customer is Wal-Mart.

Let these companies fail, restructure in bankruptcy, and learn to compete with the rest of the world. Handing these thugs billions of dollars is a placebo - a very very expensive placebo.

I agree 100% with what you say. We need to get back on track and a bail out is not going to help us get there. In fact, bankruptcy might be the only way.

However, I just wish there was a way to do it without punishing those who have done nothing but work their arses off to provide for their families. You can say it would not necessarily impact them, but I don't buy it.

xeus
11-12-2008, 02:15 PM
However, I just wish there was a way to do it without punishing those who have done nothing but work their arses off to provide for their families. You can say it would not necessarily impact them, but I don't buy it.

They have been making $73.20 an hour. That's $146,000 a year. They are doing significantly better than merely "providing for their families." With all due respect to the hardworking men and women in the auto industry, they have (collectively) been living fat off the company, and sucking the union teat, for way too long. And now the party is over.

Furthermore, it simply is NOT the role of the federal government to just hand out the taxpayers' money to corporations who have not been able to manage themselves effectively. We have a mechanism for that. It's called Title 11.

dc_x
11-12-2008, 02:23 PM
Bankruptcy does not (necessarily) punish workers. A company in bankruptcy can run effectively, often with very little difference from its pre-bankruptcy ways. Obviously significant restructuring needs to take place if these companies are to remain viable, and bankruptcy will force that issue.

Would you buy a car from a bankrupt company? Would you be comfortable that your warranty would be worth anything?

I'm not saying that the Big 3 should get a bailout, but without a bailout these companies will be gone. Nobody is going to buy a car from a bankrupt company.

I think the best scenario is to let these companies die and have their assets sold to entrepeneurs who can create a competitive auto industry in this country.

XUglow
11-12-2008, 02:48 PM
Would you buy a car from a bankrupt company? Would you be comfortable that your warranty would be worth anything?

I'm not saying that the Big 3 should get a bailout, but without a bailout these companies will be gone. Nobody is going to buy a car from a bankrupt company.

I think the best scenario is to let these companies die and have their assets sold to entrepeneurs who can create a competitive auto industry in this country.

That's silly. Would you fly on a bankrupt airline? The answer is yes and that involves putting your life on the line. People will purchase GM and Ford and Chrysler cars that are priced right, and they can price the cars right if they don't have their massive labor costs.

Other industries face the issue of labor costs that are too high, and they do something about it. The furniture industry moved from New England to North Carolina and from North Carolina to Mississippi to "fix" labor costs issues when they arise. The Japanese and Germans seem to be able to set up non-union shops in KY, TN, AL, MS, SC, etc. Are officials at Ford and GM too dumb to see the advantage, or are they locked in because the unions won't let them be competitive with the real competition.

The Artist
11-12-2008, 02:52 PM
They have been making $73.20 an hour. That's $146,000 a year. They are doing significantly better than merely "providing for their families." With all due respect to the hardworking men and women in the auto industry, they have (collectively) been living fat off the company, and sucking the union teat, for way too long. And now the party is over.

Furthermore, it simply is NOT the role of the federal government to just hand out the taxpayers' money to corporations who have not been able to manage themselves effectively. We have a mechanism for that. It's called Title 11.

Who are "they"? The workers on the assembly line are making $73.20 an hour?

Wow, I thought being an actuary was lucritive.

xeus
11-12-2008, 02:56 PM
Who are "they"? The workers on the assembly line are making $73.20 an hour?

Wow, I thought being an actuary was lucritive.

I'm gpoing off snipe's graph (see above) for whatever that's worth. Even if the numbers are not exact, I expect the ratios are (Big 3 vs. toyota).

XUglow
11-12-2008, 03:07 PM
I'm gpoing off snipe's graph (see above) for whatever that's worth. Even if the numbers are not exact, I expect the ratios are (Big 3 vs. toyota).

I am assuming that is weighted cost per hour and not the actual salary.

American X
11-12-2008, 03:11 PM
White House to Detroit: Let Me Repeat, No TARP Funds

The White House said it will work with Congress to help the U.S. auto sector, but continued to reject the possible use of Treasury Department rescue funds for Detroit.

No To Detroit (http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/11/12/white-house-to-detroit-let-me-repeat-no-tarp-funds/)

dc_x
11-12-2008, 03:48 PM
That's silly. Would you fly on a bankrupt airline? The answer is yes and that involves putting your life on the line. People will purchase GM and Ford and Chrysler cars that are priced right, and they can price the cars right if they don't have their massive labor costs.

Other industries face the issue of labor costs that are too high, and they do something about it. The furniture industry moved from New England to North Carolina and from North Carolina to Mississippi to "fix" labor costs issues when they arise. The Japanese and Germans seem to be able to set up non-union shops in KY, TN, AL, MS, SC, etc. Are officials at Ford and GM too dumb to see the advantage, or are they locked in because the unions won't let them be competitive with the real competition.


CHICAGO - Nearly three-quarters of Americans wouldn't buy a car from a bankrupt company, according to a recent survey.

In a nationwide survey by the Cincinnati-based research firm Directions Research Inc. published Friday, only 26 percent of respondents said they would purchase or lease a new car from a manufacturer that had declared bankruptcy.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10616931/

XU05and07
11-12-2008, 03:50 PM
Part of the problem for the Big 3 is the quality of car they produce. Instead of running a shop with the mindset getting the job done quickly, they should adopt the foreign car ideals of getting the job done with quality.

If the auto industry goes bankrupt in the US, someone is bound to come along and buy up the pieces. Once they do that, they can run an effective, efficient, and profit-making company. The names will be different and the legacy will be gone, but those names and legacies have been in denial for decades.

XU 87
11-12-2008, 04:19 PM
The bottom line is that if you are going to get higher wages and benefits, then you also have to have higher productivity. But the unions want higher wages and benefits along with rules and work classifications that all but guarantee lower productivity.

High wages + low productivity = bankruptcy.

But I doubt Washington will learn from this mess. They want to make it much easier for unions to organize by getting rid of the secret ballot. How do our democrats feel about this secret ballot issue? I'd like to hear from you.

xeus
11-12-2008, 04:24 PM
Quote:
CHICAGO - Nearly three-quarters of Americans wouldn't buy a car from a bankrupt company, according to a recent survey.

In a nationwide survey by the Cincinnati-based research firm Directions Research Inc. published Friday, only 26 percent of respondents said they would purchase or lease a new car from a manufacturer that had declared bankruptcy.

Well, one of the challenges a company faces in bankruptcy is selling the fact that it's business as usual and the company is turning things around. I was a buyer for FAO Schwarz when we were in Ch 11, and one of my biggest hurdles was working with the vendors to continue shipping to us, reassuring them that we had obtained debtor in possession financing, and pitching the idea of the new direction for the company.

The Big 3 would face that same challenge. That poll doesn't surprise me, because I don't expect most Americans to understand how corporate bankruptcy works.

Additionally, bankruptcy courts tend to involve themselves in issues involving consumer protection - as with warranties, gift cards, etc.

XUglow
11-12-2008, 04:29 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10616931/

I am sure this is a totally random survey with NO agenda. Let's see. Could it be that GM and Ford want the bailout rather than follow the natural path into bankruptcy? If so, wouldn't it be just handy-dandy to have marketing research showing that people just wouldn't buy cars from a company in bankruptcy.

As the ex-head of marketing for a Fortune 500 company, I know quite a bit about this type of data. It is basically in the "figures don't lie, but liars can figure" category. We used to say, "XX% of marketing statistics are made up on the spot." (With XX being some random made up number.) That was generally good for a laugh or two.

1) What question was asked?
2) To whom was the question asked?

I would direct the question this way.

"Would you buy a new car from a company in bankruptcy protection if it meant that you could buy the car for $2,000 to $10,000 less than buying the same car from the same company that was surviving only because it had a US government line of credit?"

I would also direct the question to likely car buyers.

Lastly, I looked up the company that ran the survey. This is their motto:

We spend 99.9 percent of our time and effort trying to figure out what each client wants. And then we deliver.

That doesn't sound to me like someone that wants to deliver plain-jane raw data that you can take to the bank.

BBC 08
11-12-2008, 04:37 PM
You know glow, with avatars like that, it is tough to truly pay attention to what you are posting.

XUglow
11-12-2008, 04:47 PM
You know glow, with avatars like that, it is tough to truly pay attention to what you are posting.

Miss Muskie and Faith call everyone here, "the boys". Every time I shoot a picture, they look at it carefully and wonder if "the boys" will like it. Living up to XH expectations must be a difficult thing.

BBC 08
11-12-2008, 04:57 PM
Miss Muskie and Faith call everyone here, "the boys". Every time I shoot a picture, they look at it carefully and wonder if "the boys" will like it. Living up to XH expectations must be a difficult thing.

A boy? I'm a man, I'm 40! Come after me!

MADXSTER
11-12-2008, 05:12 PM
Miss Muskie and Faith call everyone here, "the boys". Every time I shoot a picture, they look at it carefully and wonder if "the boys" will like it. Living up to XH expectations must be a difficult thing.

They can call me whatever they want.

Stonebreaker
11-12-2008, 05:43 PM
The answer is: You'll get nothing and like it.
I'd rather see them go under than to keep shelling out billions like it's chucky cheese tokens.
We'll just have to find another way for Americans to get deeper into debt.

bobbiemcgee
11-12-2008, 06:58 PM
AIG already has 188 billion of our money and no hope to pay it back imho.

X-band '01
11-12-2008, 09:05 PM
No doubt right now some people are deciding to stop paying their mortgage. The Govt is only helping people that are 90 days behind on their mortgages. Be sure to read the rules to see if you qualify before you stop paying on your mortgage. People are going to work the system, and those that pay their bills on time are going to be the ones that pay for it. It makes me sick.


I wouldn't stand in line right now to stop paying the mortgage:

Yahoo - Market Drops 410 Points Amid Change in Bailout Plan (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081112/wall_street.html)

In short, the Feds have changed their mind and no longer are going to buy up all the bad mortgages off of the banks right now.

Kahns Krazy
11-12-2008, 09:42 PM
I'm at an investor conference today. I don't know exactly what the band on the deck of the titanic looked like, but out here, they're sporting blackberry's and looking very, very nervous. I really don't feel a bit bad for these douchebags, but it's weird to see people who felt like they had the world by the balls 6 months ago sweating about paying 14 dollars for a drink.

14 dollars for a drink is stupid, mind you, but these guys used to wear it like an honor badge.

I sat through about 8 presentations and an equal number of meetings today. Nobody said they needed credit released to make payroll.

Snipe
11-13-2008, 10:20 AM
I thought that this onion video was right on the spot:

'Should The Government Stop Dumping Money Into A Giant Hole?' (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/023991.html)

Great stuff. The black woman is hilarious.

xeus
11-13-2008, 03:37 PM
Awesome. Now Detroit wants some money too!

Mo Money (http://www.freep.com/article/20081112/NEWS01/81112065/1199/PRINT)

Snipe
11-13-2008, 10:27 PM
Awesome. Now Detroit wants some money too!

Mo Money (http://www.freep.com/article/20081112/NEWS01/81112065/1199/PRINT)


The Detroit City Council passed a resolution today calling for a $10-billion bailout for the city of Detroit.

That is hilarious.

We live in incredible times. The Detroit City Council just passed a resolution calling for 10 billion dollars. They didn't say how the vote went down. I wonder if anyone on council was against the Federal Government taking 10 billion from taxpayers nationwide and giving it to the Detroit city council.

I also wonder why they only asked for 10 billion. They probably could have passed a resolution for 100 billion, or even a trillion.

I would like to put a resolution together asking the federal government for 10 billion dollars for Xavierhoops.com.

We just may have arrived at the end of days. I thought we had another 10-25 years.

xeus
11-14-2008, 08:24 AM
I also wonder why they only asked for 10 billion. They probably could have passed a resolution for 100 billion, or even a trillion.



Reminds of the scene in Austin Powers when Dr Evil asks for ransom money:

unless you pay me ... (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKHSAE1gIs)

Kahns Krazy
11-14-2008, 10:54 AM
Reminds of the scene in Austin Powers when Dr Evil asks for ransom money:

unless you pay me ... (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKHSAE1gIs)

Remided me of Semi sending a telegram to the King of Zamunda asking for some additional 'pocket money'.

The annual budget for the state of Ohio is about $26 billion, if I recall correctly. The city of Detriot has less than 1 million residents. I am sure they need $10 billion.

blobfan
11-14-2008, 12:22 PM
I like Jay Leno's take on the AmEx bailout. Give it to them at the same rate they charge credit card holders: 18% increasing to 34% if you are ever late.

xeus
11-14-2008, 12:30 PM
HEY, now Atlanta, Philadelphia, and Phoenix want some of the action too! AWESOME! Bailout money for everyone!

Now we gonna get us some! (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94EQHOG0&show_article=1)

BBC 08
11-14-2008, 12:36 PM
My student loans are only a fraction of what these places are asking for, can I have some money then?

Snipe
11-14-2008, 12:49 PM
HEY, now Atlanta, Philadelphia, and Phoenix want some of the action too! AWESOME! Bailout money for everyone!

Now we gonna get us some! (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94EQHOG0&show_article=1)

Everyone is lining up. It is madness.

We should make a law against defined benefit pensions. Defined contribution (IRA, 401K) is the way to go. It seems as if every pension system in America is screwed up.

Everyone is going to have to take their lumps. The bailouts have to stop. Thank goodness that Obama promised a net spending cut.

Snipe
11-14-2008, 01:07 PM
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." Frederic Bastiat (http://www.constitution.org/law/bastiat.htm)

The Artist
11-14-2008, 01:17 PM
Everyone is lining up. It is madness.

We should make a law against defined benefit pensions. Defined contribution (IRA, 401K) is the way to go. It seems as if every pension system in America is screwed up.

Everyone is going to have to take their lumps. The bailouts have to stop. Thank goodness that Obama promised a net spending cut.

I actually think all of these people asking for a bailout might be a good thing, meaning it's creating so much nonsense, hopefully they come out and say "ok, nobody's getting anything".

GoMuskies
11-14-2008, 01:25 PM
I would like to put a resolution together asking the federal government for 10 billion dollars for Xavierhoops.com.


I Second your motion

xu95
11-15-2008, 05:41 PM
I actually think all of these people asking for a bailout might be a good thing, meaning it's creating so much nonsense, hopefully they come out and say "ok, nobody's getting anything".

that sounds like the exact opposite of spreading the wealth.

xu95

The Artist
11-15-2008, 10:08 PM
that sounds like the exact opposite of spreading the wealth.

xu95

Even though your political obsession with me is quite flattering, to steal a line from Tony in Rocky II...

"Let it gooo"

vee4xu
11-16-2008, 10:52 AM
We got a good dose of the old bait-and-switch from Paulson and Congress. I was originally all for the rescue plan when it was described as helping to stabilize the short-term credit market and allow banks to deal with bad loans on its own books. Then, in typical government fashion, they start yelling after the banks decide to use the money to buy other banks instead of shoring up their own balance sheets. It pisses me off. What's great is that the administration, the House and Senate all are acting like parents of incouragable kids by saying to banks who are not playing by the rules, "Now you know you shouldn't be doing this. Stop it now." To which the banks respond, "Screw you sucker."

Now with Amex wanting money and the auto industry wanting money, I say freeze the program. No more money to anyone, unless it includes me. All this plan is doing now is rewarding bad behavior. This is true for the banks and auto industry. What next, Circuit City and Best Buy saying they need help to provide expensive big screen TV's to people who can't afford them? Please.

Kahns Krazy
11-16-2008, 09:56 PM
I saw a woman today that had one leg about 5 inches shorter than the other.

xeus
11-17-2008, 07:58 AM
I saw a woman today that had one leg about 5 inches shorter than the other.

We have only begun to see the effects of this economic downturn.

xu95
11-17-2008, 09:35 AM
Even though your political obsession with me is quite flattering, to steal a line from Tony in Rocky II...

"Let it gooo"

I'm just having a little fun with you. Trust me I was over it before it was over. In fact I was racking up money at the blackjack table at Harrah's during the concession speech.

xu95