Calling All Undecided Voters

[vee4xu]

To anyone who is still deciding for whom to vote tomorrow, I offer the following:

#1 - During the 2000 election season, a certain presidential candidate said that he was a "compassionate conservative." How do you think that worked out?

#2 - During the 2000 election season, a certain presidential candidate said the his administration would not engage in "nation building." How did that work out?

#3 - During the 2000 election season, a certain presidential candidate said that if elected he would overturn Roe v. Wade. From between 2000 and 2006 this certain presidential candidate who was selected President of the USA had the Executive Branch, Legislative Branch and Judicial Branch all aligned with him and Roe v. Wade was not overturned. How do you feel about that? I know it pisses me off.

#4 - During the 2000 election season, a certain presidential candidate said that if elected he would be fiscally responsible. When a certain 2000 presidential candidate became President he inherited a $294 billion surplus. Since then he has turned that into a large deficit and a $53 trillion debt.

So, as you undecideds go to the polls tomorrow, I ask that you ponder each of these issues before you vote. Also, I ask the you take one more look at the Faithful Citizenship document that should help in conscience formation.

[vee4xu]

http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/FCStatement.pdf

Here is a link to a PDF of the Faithful Citizenship document.

Good luck!

[GoMuskies]

George Bush is running for another term?

[drudy23]

And in four years from now, there will be another list of empty promises that never happened regardless of who wins. It's the same stupid, idiotic process every four years. It's been happening for centuries, and we keep thinking we matter.

I'm fairly confident that regardless of who wins, most, if not all, Governors and Congressman will be rich...most will get richer over the next four years...and the rest of us will fall for the same things four years from now while we try to decide whether to buy a new TV or put that extra $1500 in the savings account...damn, the car needs brakes...nevermind.

[Stonebreaker]

1) I think he gave billions to Head Start and for Aids in Africa.
2) I think we were attacked on 9-11. Also, I do recall Saddam not living up to the cease fire, 16 UN resolutions, and him attacking our planes. Or should we have done nothing about either? In reference to number 1, the compassionate conservative helped stop genocide in Iraq. Or is killing just bad in Africa, and not apply to the Kurds?
3) I don't recall him saying anything about overturning any constitutional decision. I do recall him talking about appointing judges who will follow the constitution, and not 'interpret' it, as was done in the original roe v. wade case, AND w/ eminant domain.
4) Bush may be republican, but that doesn't make him conservative. The neocon talk makes me laugh. As far as the debt goes, two wars resulting largely from terrorism tends to hurt the budget. McCain is no conservative either-btw, but I do believe he will do a better job than W. Then again, who knows.

[ATL Muskie]

Has anyone promised to bring real change to the west side of Cincinnati?

[vee4xu]

George Bush is running for another term?

It is possible.

[vee4xu]

Stone, I agree we were attacked on 9-11 and the war in Afganistan is abolutely valid in response to that attack. But, the second war by this administration's own admission was largely a mistake. No weapons of mass destruction. No Al Quida, that is at least until the US invaded Iraq. No exit plan once the brave soldiers did the job asked of them.

Iraq is nation building, plain and simple.

[Kahns Krazy]

I would encourage any undecided voters to learn as much as they can, and decide for themselves who to vote for. Try to sort through obvious scare-tactic selective statistics like
When a certain 2000 presidential candidate became President he inherited a $294 billion surplus. Since then he has turned that into a large deficit and a $53 trillion debt.


Seriously people, make up your own minds, and be wary of anyone who tries to tell you who to vote for.

[Stonebreaker]

I'm undecided. I can't figure out how many times I should vote.

Or, I can't decide that when I go, if somebody will already have voted for me.

(a buddy of mine went to vote early, and was told he already voted) NICE.

[MuskiePimp23]

Ponder this...
One candidate has proposed over a Trillion $ in new spending yet says he is going to cut taxes for 95% of Americans...The same VP candidate scoffs and sneers at a guy and says " I don't know many plumbers making 250k per year"...The same candidate in his own words says "they want to spread the wealth around"...This smacks of socialism, just as a certain candidate did back in 2004.

Is either choice perfect? Absolutely not...But, I vote for the PRO-LIFE candidate that wants to keep the largest tax cuts in American history in place, in addition to cut the capital gains taxes, in addition to cutting out our dependence on foreign oil by drilling in the gulf and creating new jobs...Keep in mind, neither candidate is George Bush, but Bush has created over 5.5 Million new jobs during his term.

One party seems to want people to be rewarded, not penalized for doing well, such as being a plumber that happens to make over 250k in a year, because you OWN THE PLUMBING CO...That was a question of "If I own the company and this happens, what will happen."

One party wants to reward people for basically sitting on their butt and giving them health care, SS, Medicare, Welfare, even if they are TOO LAZY to get a JOB...That burns me up and if all 3 in the White House, Senate, and House are in one party, we are headed down a terrible path that will leave this country in a terrible state for years to come.

[Stonebreaker]

Well....IMO.....they don't want to reward hard work, but to bring those down to the levels of the lower middle class (except themselves), so that everyone can enjoy misery, and not just the lowest of the poor.
When does the poor get to become rich if everyone, including small businesses, gets taxed at some of the highest rates in the world? Are we capitalists, or what? And hasn't that made America what it is today, or are we forgetting what it took to build this country...smart, hard-working people who took risks and got rewarded, not penalized.

[nuts4xu]

#3 - During the 2000 election season, a certain presidential candidate said that if elected he would overturn Roe v. Wade. From between 2000 and 2006 this certain presidential candidate who was selected President of the USA had the Executive Branch, Legislative Branch and Judicial Branch all aligned with him and Roe v. Wade was not overturned. How do you feel about that? I know it pisses me off.

Vee, your post rails against G Bush and makes it sound like you think people should vote for the Democrat in this election. This democrat believes in abortion on demand, including late term abortions. I am not sure what point you are trying to make with your numbered thoughts.

I know many people that do not like McCain because of how liberal he is. He isn't a far right conservative and he is much more left than Bush ever thought.

[Juice]

Whatever happened to immigration being a big issue in this country? Last year, it was all people talked about. It was never brought up in any of the debates, which really surprised me. The only reason I can think of is because both candidates suck on the immigration issue and their answers really would not have mattered.

[Stonebreaker]

Immigration is a HUGE issue. It's helping to bankrupt calif, although they are doing a great job of it on their own.

[Stonebreaker]

Whatever happened to immigration being a big issue in this country? Last year, it was all people talked about. It was never brought up in any of the debates, which really surprised me. The only reason I can think of is because both candidates suck on the immigration issue and their answers really would not have mattered.

Well...the great debates didn't help. The questions weren't very good, and they should have asked for specific answers on social security, immigration, defense spending, education, etc.
The candidates gave few specifics. Not good for America, IMO. We have very little idea what to expect from either candidate.

[vee4xu]

Vee, your post rails against G Bush and makes it sound like you think people should vote for the Democrat in this election. This democrat believes in abortion on demand, including late term abortions. I am not sure what point you are trying to make with your numbered thoughts.

I know many people that do not like McCain because of how liberal he is. He isn't a far right conservative and he is much more left than Bush ever thought.

Fair question nuts. Here is a short summary of why I listed those four points. The point is that Mr. Bush is really neither conservative, nor compassionate to those in need. He used abortion as a wedge issue and never have any intention of addressing it. The claim that they are the fiscally responsible party no longer holds any truth. Finally, they will used deception to invade other country in order to "spread democracy." The failures of the last 8 years are obvious and I only ask that others look at these failures and in their hearts vote for the person who is best able to take this country in a different and more postiive direction. If that means McCain, then fine. If that means Obama, then fine, too.

I am a firm believer in the notion that one cannot know where he/she is going unless you know where you've been. And we have been to hell and back these past 8 years. The world was 100% behind this country after September 11, 2001. That collateral was squandered and an opportunity to solidify this great country as the standard bearer for justice and human rights around the globe was missed because of the greed and ineptitude that currenlty resides in 1600 Pennsylvania Aveue and next door where Vice-Presdient Cheney resides.

Hope this helps.

[Juice]

Fair question nuts. The point is that conservatives are not compassionate to those in need. They use abortion as a wedge issue and never have any intention of addressing it. That the claim that they are the fiscally responsible party no longer holds any truth. Finally, they will use deception to invade other countries in order to "spread democracy." The failures of the last 8 years are obvious and I only ask that others look at these failures and in their hearts vote for the person who is best able to take this country in a different and more postiive direction. The Bush Administration has been a dismal failure on all fronts and I really cannot fathom the idea of another day of it beyond January 19, 2009.

South Dakota has held voter referendums on trying to get rid of abortion. It is just a really hard issue to change at this time.

As a conservative/libertarian, I completely agree with you on the spending issue with Republicans. This party has gotten ridiculous, which is why I think McCain was a nominee, because he really doesn't inspire his voters that the spending will go down.

[vee4xu]

So pimp, let me understand something. You want to bring all pregnancies to full term it seems. Good, well at least we agree there. However, there are consequences to that decison. If all pregnancies are taken to full term, then there will be crack babies, HIV infected babies, alcohol fetal syndrome babies and generally unwanted babies. These are the facts. So, what do you suggest be done to assist these innocent children after they are born? Who do suggest pay for whatever help they are given. You see, it's just not that easy. All due respect, I wonder if the people who vote Pro-Life solely on the abortion issue are really hiding behind the fact that they don't want to lose their precious tax cuts. It makes me wonder which issue is really more important.

[vee4xu]

Well this is it. Really nothing more to say at this point. The voting starts in the morning and I am hitting the rack, so let the chips fall where they may. Here's hoping. Thanks all for bearing with my while I ranted about voting, Jesus and politics and Faithful Citizenship.

Go vote everyone!

Now it's back to XU basketball.

[Strange Brew]

Vee, saying failures are obvious is like Gore saying the arguement about GW is over. Support arguements with specifics like Snipe (he maybe a little longwinded but at least he provides evidence and does not simply provide bumper stickers)

Yes Clinton left office with a surplus but also the country was in a recession when he left (look it up). Also, the balanced budget was proposed by Gringrich, Clinton merely signed it. The same is true for welfare reform.

The war in Iraq, whether or not you agree with the premise (i do), at this point you cannot rationally argue that it is not being won (October was the lowest month for casualties since the the evil idiot George W. "invaded"). Furthermore, control of the majority of Iraqi provinces are now under Iraqi control, Hussein was tried and executed and country holds fee elections. Only Harry Reid and Murtha still believe we lost. Well maybe Kerry but he's been lost for years.

By the way more people were violently killed in the democratically controlled city of Chicago last month than the entire country of Iraq. Now that is the change we need.

[American X]

I would encourage any undecided voters to learn as much as they can, and decide for themselves who to vote for.
Seriously people, make up your own minds, and be wary of anyone who tries to tell you who to vote for.

I convinced a co-worker to vote today, but demurred when he practically begged me to tell him how to vote. I showed him how to use an excellent feature on the Tribune website to create a personalized ballot guide. That is new technology put to great use.

[GuyFawkes38]

I can't wait for this election be over.

I find it a little depressing that the youth is getting so involved with this campaign.

[Strange Brew]

Guy, at least old people are not getting involved, right?:D

[Juice]

I find it a little depressing that the youth is getting so involved with this campaign.

It is the dumbest voting group out there. When I see commercials on MTV aimed at America's youth, I fear that this country will be non-existent in about 20 years.

[GuyFawkes38]

Guy, at least old people are not getting involved, right?:D

Ha, I think your trying to get a reaction out of me. Old people get way too involved. I think it's dangerous for anyone to get involved with politics.

Personally, I will not vote in this election. And I will not watch one second of election day TV coverage.


It is the dumbest voting group out there. When I see commercials on MTV aimed at America's youth, I fear that this country will be non-existent in about 20 years.

True. Any campaign focused on the youth is retarded (anti-smoking commercials come to mind).

[DC Muskie]

By the way more people were violently killed in the democratically controlled city of Chicago last month than the entire country of Iraq. Now that is the change we need.

Obviously we need to now invade Chicago.

[Lloyd Christmas]

Obviously we need to now invade Chicago.

A friend just sent me this:

Perhaps the U.S. Should pull-out of Chicago ?
Body count in the last six months:
292 killed (murdered) in Chicago ;
221 killed in Iraq .
Chicago.... Who Runs it:

Senators: Barack Obama & Richard Durbin
Rep: Jesse Jackson Jr.,
Illinois Gov: Rod Blogojevich,
Illinois House leader: Mike Madigan,
Illinois Atty. Gen.: Lisa Madigan (daughter of Mike),
Chicago Mayor: Richard M. Daley (son of Mayor Richard J.Daley)

State pension fund $44 Billion in debt, worst in country.
Cook County ( Chicago ) sales tax 10.25% highest in country. (Look 'em up if you want to).
Chicago school system rated one of the worst in the country.

[Snipe]

By the way more people were violently killed in the democratically controlled city of Chicago last month than the entire country of Iraq. Now that is the change we need.


Obviously we need to now invade Chicago.

I think we need an exit plan instead.

[XU05and07]

I think we need an exit plan instead.

The Cubs have an exit plan...


...ZING!

[XUglow]

The Cubs have an exit plan...


...ZING!

In the SNL debate, both candidates agreed that the only thing to do about repeated Cub failures in the playoffs was to migrate Cub fans to other teams since the Cubs will continue to fail in the future.

[vee4xu]

Selective stats to pursuade voters. Hmmm, now there's something never attempted by anyone before. Happy to see I am so inovative. At least I had the courage to sign my name to it.

[MuskiePimp23]

So pimp, let me understand something. You want to bring all pregnancies to full term it seems. Good, well at least we agree there. However, there are consequences to that decison. If all pregnancies are taken to full term, then there will be crack babies, HIV infected babies, alcohol fetal syndrome babies and generally unwanted babies. These are the facts. So, what do you suggest be done to assist these innocent children after they are born? Who do suggest pay for whatever help they are given. You see, it's just not that easy. All due respect, I wonder if the people who vote Pro-Life solely on the abortion issue are really hiding behind the fact that they don't want to lose their precious tax cuts. It makes me wonder which issue is really more important.

Vee, I hear your point, but I do not make enough money to have the precious tax cuts effect me. I am not in the highest tax bracket and McCain wants to keep Bush's tax cuts from the Clinton era permanent, so there would be no change to me...According to Obama, I would pay even less in taxes, yet he is talking solely income taxes, not taking into fact that I am also an investor and would pay more in Capital Gains taxes, other taxes to fund his new spending, etc. Voting pro-life solely for the abortion issue is as ignorant as voting for Obama because he would be the first African-American President...Those reasons alone should not constitute the vote.

One thing I agree with both candidates on is preventing these things before they happen. The majority of abortions in America are because people, Adults and Teens make bad choices and are not responsible enough to live up to their bad choice of having sex and they choose to end someone's life...It is not the role of government to be able to end another person's life before they get started on their own outside the womb. It also, should not be just a women's right to choose, or a Teen's right to do this without notifying the parents.

Very rare are cases of incest and rape, but the majority are just people being irresponsble and wanting the government to take care of them (i.e. let them have an abortion, give them health care, welfare, Social Security, etc., etc., etc.). What about making America what it is supposed to be and rewarding people for actually making good choices and not taxing the heck out of them if they are successful enough to be in the highest tax bracket.

If you win the lottery and are in the highest tax bracket for one year, yet make a lot less on average, should you have to pay that much more to a fiscally irresponsible government?

Have you ever tried to adopt kids, or know what it takes to adopt kids in this country? The process can sometimes take years and is VERY costly. Lots of people I know wind up going out of the country to adopt because of how much of a hassle it is in this country. Let's make this easier and focus on prevention of these unwanted pregnancies and make people responsible for THEIR OWN ACTIONS. Not wanting the government to bail them out, then all these so called HIV and crack babies won't happen.

In today's world, contracting HIV from needles RARELY happens, so the majority of people contract it through sex...STOP HAVING SEX and UNPROTECTED SEX you idiot people then wanting someone else to help your sorry A$$ out while you go down and collect your damn welfare check every other Wednesday.

[Kahns Krazy]

Selective stats to pursuade voters. Hmmm, now there's something never attempted by anyone before. Happy to see I am so inovative. At least I had the courage to sign my name to it.

Believe me. I sit here in awe of the courage it takes to sign a fake name to propaganda. Someday, I hope to have that level of courage.

Sincerely,
"Mystery Meat Product of Questionable Sanity. "

[vee4xu]

Let's make this easier and focus on prevention of these unwanted pregnancies and make people responsible for THEIR OWN ACTIONS.

Thanks for the repsonse pimp. Your points make sense to me. I especially agree with the one I cut and pasted above. Unfortunatley, it takes money to focus on prevention. So, it is a balancing act. Enough resources to lift people out of poverty, but not enough to make them solely reliant on the taxpayer to support them. Clinton found that balance and I think Obama will do likewise.

[drudy23]

And in four years from now, there will be another list of empty promises that never happened regardless of who wins. It's the same stupid, idiotic process every four years. It's been happening for centuries, and we keep thinking we matter.

I'm fairly confident that regardless of who wins, most, if not all, Governors and Congressman will be rich...most will get richer over the next four years...and the rest of us will fall for the same things four years from now while we try to decide whether to buy a new TV or put that extra $1500 in the savings account...damn, the car needs brakes...nevermind.

This was my quote from this board on 11-3-2008. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[golfitup]

Been sitting on that one for quite a while eh?

[Snipe]

And in four years from now, there will be another list of empty promises that never happened regardless of who wins. It's the same stupid, idiotic process every four years. It's been happening for centuries, and we keep thinking we matter.

I'm fairly confident that regardless of who wins, most, if not all, Governors and Congressman will be rich...most will get richer over the next four years...and the rest of us will fall for the same things four years from now while we try to decide whether to buy a new TV or put that extra $1500 in the savings account...damn, the car needs brakes...nevermind.

It does seem to amaze me that nobody ever holds the winner to his campaign promises. Obama was going to shrink the Federal Budget, if you can believe that now. In the debates he told us all he was going to reduce the Federal Budget by going through every aspect "line by line" to eliminate waste. Eliminating government waste is a popular campaign ploy, but what President has ever done that? Obama's only attempt to reduce government spending has been a campaign to "reduce spending through the tax code", which means eliminating deductions on things like charitable giving. He has made an expansive case for the rich being taxed more on the money that they give away.

He hasn't reduced the size of government to say the least. He has expanded it beyond all known proportions. We are at a record not seen since World War II. No evidence exists that he acted on his pledge in his own words. He was going to through the budget "line by line" to reduce waste. No such waste reduction can be found.

It is all a pack of lies.

Rinse. Lather. Repeat.

Drudy is spot on, and politically he doesn't even really care. He has low expectations. God Bless him for that.

“If life doesn't meet your expectations, lower your expectations” – George Carlin

[drudy23]

It does seem to amaze me that nobody ever holds the winner to his campaign promises. Obama was going to shrink the Federal Budget, if you can believe that now. In the debates he told us all he was going to reduce the Federal Budget by going through every aspect "line by line" to eliminate waste. Eliminating government waste is a popular campaign ploy, but what President has ever done that? Obama's only attempt to reduce government spending has been a campaign to "reduce spending through the tax code", which means eliminating deductions on things like charitable giving. He has made an expansive case for the rich being taxed more on the money that they give away.

He hasn't reduced the size of government to say the least. He has expanded it beyond all known proportions. We are at a record not seen since World War II. No evidence exists that he acted on his pledge in his own words. He was going to through the budget "line by line" to reduce waste. No such waste reduction can be found.

It is all a pack of lies.

Rinse. Lather. Repeat.

Drudy is spot on, and politically he doesn't even really care. He has low expectations. God Bless him for that.

“If life doesn't meet your expectations, lower your expectations” – George Carlin

And to add to it, things like the Conventions, the Roadshows, and the TV ads are just a slap in the face of the same nonsense. It is almost sickening to watch a Presidential address with the members of Congress present. They know they live in their own little world, and regardless of how much the general population says they're sick of seeing this juvenile side show bickering, they listen by giving us more of it, in an increasingly disgusting way. Not much I can do about it, but my protest is my refusal to vote.

[LadyMuskie]

I too, am not voting in November for a president lest something radically changes between now and then. I do not like Obama. I do not like Romney. There are parts of each of their platforms that I accept and parts that I dislike. I do not want men telling me what I can and cannot do with my body if I am raped, for example. However, I'm not selfish enough to think that my right to have an abortion should supersede the real problems we're having economically, educationally, etc. I really wish the government would focus on fixing the real problems instead of sound-biting their way through governing. It's disheartening. I hate both parties.

[GoMuskies]

I do not want men telling me what I can and cannot do with my body if I am raped, for example.

How is this relevant in the Presidential election? Akin isn't running for Pres. I get the impression that abortion is an issue that Romney could not care less about.

[blueblob06]

It's disheartening. I hate both parties.
This sums it up as short and sweet as possible. Well said!

[bobbiemcgee]

The convention will be a footnote this week if Isaac hits New Orleans. It will definitely fill up the tub (below sea level !) again.

[CinciX12]

I find it absolutely hilarious how each political party views the other. They all start with some basis in fact and then go so far in left field it turns in to just lunacy.

I'll give my worldly 23 year old opinion on the subject though. I find it disheartening that this election cycle has turned in to the debate that it is. There are serious issues that need to be addressed and we have 2 political parties that believe in different ways on going about them. But the bottom line, and the order in which I give these are not the order of importance, but you have national debt, the war in Afghanistan, equal rights for gays, health care, equal pay, etc. All of which if a decision gets made can greatly affect and shape our country. It becomes enormously frustrating when the conversation is continuously rerouted to whether or not abortion should be illegal or whether or not contraception should be illegal.

I just don't see how someone can be so passionate about the national debt and worry about the budget, but then still try to convince me that our biggest national priority this election is the abortion of babies who are conceived through rape and incest.

[drudy23]

National security, jobs, healthcare...who cares about everything else.

[LadyMuskie]

How is this relevant in the Presidential election? Akin isn't running for Pres. I get the impression that abortion is an issue that Romney could not care less about.

Akin and Ryan co-authored a bill using the same language and ideas Akin is postulating. Since Ryan is running for VP with Romney, it makes it relevant. Although, I agree that the Romney campaign does not want to touch the abortion debate with a 10 foot pole.

[GoMuskies]

Akin and Ryan co-authored a bill using the same language and ideas Akin is postulating. Since Ryan is running for VP with Romney, it makes it relevant. Although, I agree that the Romney campaign does not want to touch the abortion debate with a 10 foot pole.

Getting Ryan out of the Senate and making him VP makes him much less powerful.

[CinciX12]

Ryan tried to include the words "forcible rape" because he said that he wanted to differentiate between statutory rape, or at least that is what he said he meant when he got called out on it.

It is along the same idea of thought, but Ryan didn't go as far as to say that only in situations where the woman doesn't want to be raped she will not get pregnant.

[vee4xu]

Getting Ryan out of the House and making him VP makes him much less powerful.

There, I fixed that for you.

[GoMuskies]

Either way.

[Snipe]

I find it absolutely hilarious how each political party views the other. They all start with some basis in fact and then go so far in left field it turns in to just lunacy.

I'll give my worldly 23 year old opinion on the subject though. I find it disheartening that this election cycle has turned in to the debate that it is. There are serious issues that need to be addressed and we have 2 political parties that believe in different ways on going about them. But the bottom line, and the order in which I give these are not the order of importance, but you have national debt, the war in Afghanistan, equal rights for gays, health care, equal pay, etc. All of which if a decision gets made can greatly affect and shape our country. It becomes enormously frustrating when the conversation is continuously rerouted to whether or not abortion should be illegal or whether or not contraception should be illegal.

I just don't see how someone can be so passionate about the national debt and worry about the budget, but then still try to convince me that our biggest national priority this election is the abortion of babies who are conceived through rape and incest.

This is the order that you presented them:

1) national debt
2) the war in Afghanistan
3) equal rights for gays
4) health care
5) equal pay
6) etc
7) whether or not abortion should be illegal
8) whether or not contraception should be illegal
9) abortion of babies who are conceived through rape and incest

You said: "But the bottom line, and the order in which I give these are not the order of importance", and I respect that, but I wouldn't mind you giving us the order that you think are of importance. You mentioned the national debt first, which got my respect. I also never cared for the War in Afghanistan, and argued that we should no longer be there.

Please order them for your values in importance, I think it would be an interesting template.

If I had to answer my own question to you, it would probably be:

1) Border Security
2) Illegal Immigration (deporting the 12 million illegals)
3) Stopping Legal Immigration (we don't need your dirt poor mom and dad, we are in debt)
4) Cutting Welfare for immigrants
5) The Economy
6) The National Debt
7) Obama-care
8) Fighting Racism

[Snipe]

There, I fixed that for you.

Vee I noticed that this thread was before the last election, and it was a very partisan thread at that, right before the election. You always like to act like you want to stay above the fray, but this is your thread from start to finish.

You didn't note your recent observation that money controls politics or that all politicians are sell outs to the highest dollar. That is curious, because at the time Barack Obama became the first President to ever break away from public funding. He committed to public financing, and then once he realized that he could raise more he went back on that decision. He broke all the records of fundraising, and probably raised more from foreign sources than even Bill Clinton. You apparently were not concerned when the case was in the socialist's favor. Now that Romney is raising more, you decry money in politics. It is an interesting case study. I think you are a hypocritical ass, that only pretends to stay "above the fray". This thread was started right before people went to the booth, and you were partisan as hell.

How do you explain this partisan thread, and still maintain that you like to "stay above the fray"? It is an embarrassment of partisanship if you read your posts from 4 years ago.

[LadyMuskie]

Getting Ryan out of the Senate and making him VP makes him much less powerful.

True. But it also makes him one seat away from the most powerful position in the world.

[LadyMuskie]

And, on the other side of the aisle, I'm simply terrified that Joe Biden is also one seat away from the presidency. At least Ryan seems intelligent and capable of coherent thought. I really think that the VP choices in 08 and this year have played a part in my not voting for either candidate, albeit a small part.

[paulxu]

Getting Ryan out of the Senate and making him VP makes him much less powerful.

I sure wish that had been true with Cheney.

[GoMuskies]

I sure wish that had been true with Cheney.

Romney is no Bush.

[vee4xu]

As usual very astutely observant of you Snipe. And a fair question at that. I have two things to say about this. First, note that one has to reach back this far to see any details of my views. Since then I have decided that both parties are bought and paid for so money is making the decisions. I was tired of being a partian hack when the party people were abdicating their decisions to money. Second, Confusious said that it's the wise man who can change his mind. I was going to add that I'd been enlightened by you, but knew you'd call bs on me. As wishy-washy as it may sound I consider myself an Independent slightly left of center. Actually I just filled out a request for an absentee ballot yesterday so that I can have the option of writing in a name.

[CinciX12]

I sure wish that had been true with Cheney.

I still try to convince people that George Bush was an alright guy until the day he listened to Dick Cheney.

[CinciX12]

You said: "But the bottom line, and the order in which I give these are not the order of importance", and I respect that, but I wouldn't mind you giving us the order that you think are of importance. You mentioned the national debt first, which got my respect. I also never cared for the War in Afghanistan, and argued that we should no longer be there.

Please order them for your values in importance, I think it would be an interesting template.

If I had to answer my own question to you, it would probably be:

1) Border Security
2) Illegal Immigration (deporting the 12 million illegals)
3) Stopping Legal Immigration (we don't need your dirt poor mom and dad, we are in debt)
4) Cutting Welfare for immigrants
5) The Economy
6) The National Debt
7) Obama-care
8) Fighting Racism

1) National debt
2) Health care
3) Afghanistan
4) Tax reform
5) Illegal Immigration
6) Gay rights
7) Abortion/Contraceptive issues
8) Separation of church and state

Odd priority listing for a liberal I am told time after time. But hey, I'm odd to begin with.