Xavier Tales-Thad Matta stuff

[Cheesehead]

Now, we all know Beaknose didn't handle his exit from X gracefully and I don't really want to go down this road again but I was struck by how much Thad apparently cared about XU after he left if what the book talks about it true. It stated that he cried in his hotel room, during the Big 10 tourney, while watching X win the 2006 A-10 tourney (4 in 4 days) at US Bank arena. He called Sean and left him a voice mail w/ congrads and had a hard time maintaining his composure on the message.

That changed my opinion of Thad somewhat and I think he genuinely cared for X, both the program and the school. I think Thad was perhaps vilified by many on this board and the MM board but really, he took a very good opportunity for a lot of money. Most of us would have probably done the same thing. I still agree he handled it poorly but the sequence of events happended very fast. So, I forgive you Thad.

[blobfan]

That's very gracious of you and you are likely a better person for it. I, however, think that even total schmucks have their moments of goodness. I'm not so rabid over the situation that I'd be rude to him, but I don't have a lot of respect for his integrity.

[Cheesehead]

Well, I think Thad's intentions were always to look at the bigger schools if it came his way. He just didn't do it in the same way that Gillen and Prosser did. That's where people have buried the guy.

Having said this, I don't exactly root for OSU basketball these days and the XU-OSU game still pisses me off to this day because of the whole Cage being launched by Greg Oden thing.

I'm a big believer of Karma.

[Masterofreality]

No props. Sorry. Grudges die hard. I take my cue from Father Graham who was obviously pissed and there was no effort from the departed coach to pay respects to Father Hoff. I'm not into revisionist history.

Beaknose was probably just relieved that his "legacy" players made him look ok- two years after he left. Somehow, I don't think that Toucan really still cares that much now that "his guys" are gone.

Thank God for Sean Miller. I know that beaky originally brought him here, so I'll give him that, but Church Odia will be my last memory of the end of the Proboscis' era. Sean overcame it.

[Juice]

I am with the rest of you guys. If he cared so much about the university, why did he not be up front about everything or at least apologize with how he handled it?

[DC Muskie]

Pathetic. One day all of the Matta haters will die and Xavier will move on.

I look forward to that day, because I plan to outlive every last one of you hypocrites.

[waggy]

I'm with DC. Let it go. And if one is to really ponder it, everything worked out in X's favor perfectly. There is nothing to be bitter about. Running Matta down simply doesn't put X in a better light. The opposite is true.

[bourbonman]

I understand where you guys are coming from, but I'm glad he's gone. If he hadn't left then he would have left at some point because I don't believe he saw X for anything more than a quick stepping stone in a creek that was in his way to where he wanted to go. And if he had stayed, Sean would have possibly/probably left for something else and we might have missed out on what I believe is an outstanding situation. Sean, while he may not stay forever, at least considers X a bridge over that creek that is on the way to where he may end up. And he will strengthen that bridge for those who follow, which I hope is after his retirement at a date of his choosing.

[DC Muskie]

I understand where you guys are coming from, but I'm glad he's gone. If he hadn't left then he would have left at some point because I don't believe he saw X for anything more than a quick stepping stone in a creek that was in his way to where he wanted to go. And if he had stayed, Sean would have possibly/probably left for something else and we might have missed out on what I believe is an outstanding situation. Sean, while he may not stay forever, at least considers X a bridge over that creek that is on the way to where he may end up. And he will strengthen that bridge for those who follow, which I hope is after his retirement at a date of his choosing.

The only thing different between Sean and Thad is that one of the biggest athletic departments in the country came and wanted him and Thad thought was the best place for him and his family. That bridge you talked about that Sean is strengthening, Thad did it as well.

If Thad had stayed would we all be disappointed with the program? I doubt it.

[waggy]

If Thad had stayed would we all be disappointed with the program? I doubt it.

Actually, in hindsight, I don't think Thad was the perfect coach to head the X program. Sean is a much better fit - maybe the best ever.

[Raoul Duke]

Do you guys think the current RPI system is a good way of ranking teams?

Also, who is better: John McCain or Barack Obama?

Thanks.

Oh and feel free to throw in any thoughts on Johnny Wolf.

[DC Muskie]

I'm very happy with Sean. I was very happy with Thad. Sean will end up having a greater impact than Thad in the long run, in my opinion. But that doesn't mean that Thad's tenure was any less positive for the program.

The reaction to Thad by some Xavier fans is beyond puzzling. He left, and people are still talking how he left. I don't get it.

We will win the National Championship here and people will still talk about the summer of 2004. Like we are the only school on the planet where a coach left for another job. Amazing.

[bourbonman]

Actually, in hindsight, I don't think Thad was the perfect coach to head the X program. Sean is a much better fit - maybe the best ever.
DC, Waggy beat me to exactly what I believe. Would Thad have done a good job? Possibly. But I believe he would have always jumped quickly to something else because he doesn't believe X is as much of a long term opportunity. I don't get that sense from Sean. Time will tell.

[DC Muskie]

Do you guys think the current RPI system is a good way of ranking teams?

Also, who is better: John McCain or Barack Obama?

Thanks.

Oh and feel free to throw in any thoughts on Johnny Wolf.

Kansas State, good series or not?

I'll go first.

[nuts4xu]

If things didn't work out so well for Xavier, I might be willing to hold more of a grudge. But Matta won 26 games in all 3 of his seasons here, left the program in as good (if not better) shape as when he arrived, and did nothing to embarrass or stain the university.

He botched his exit, and that is the worst sin people have against him. I am over it, and have been over it for a while. I don't quite understand why people take his departure so personally.

He is gone and things have worked out just fine for Xavier, why harbor ill will towards a guy who is arguably the most successful coach in the history of our school?

[DC Muskie]

DC, Waggy beat me to exactly what I believe. Would Thad have done a good job? Possibly. But I believe he would have always jumped quickly to something else because he doesn't believe X is as much of a long term opportunity. I don't get that sense from Sean. Time will tell.

What does it matter when he left? Seriously. If he left in 2004 or 2007 and still averaged 26 wins and made two Elite 8 appearances. Is that "possibly" good enough for everyone?

The program has continued to improve every time we get a new coach. I'll go by that and Thad's track record of success. I don't care what coach we bring in looks at us as a long term opportunity. He's paid to win and graduate.

[bourbonman]

...The reaction to Thad by some Xavier fans is beyond puzzling. He left, and people are still talking how he left. I don't get it...
I think it's basically how he left. For me, I've personally have moved on. And I love what we have. DC, I hope the part of your post about winning a National Championship is right so we can find out if people can let go. And on our way to that championship I hope we go through DC again and we can share another pregame beverage.

[Juice]

I already stated my views on Thad, but its not like I dwell on him and sit up at night thinking of ways to plot against the man. Someone posed the question and people gave their views on it. Just because we gave our views on the subject does not mean that we are obsessed with him. How is it any different from you guys posting your opinion on here that you don't care about what he did?
What he did was bullcrap, but with hindsight being 20/20, I am glad he left because I like Sean a lot better than Thad for reasons that have nothing to do with "how he left Xavier."

[DC Muskie]

I think it's basically how he left. For me, I've personally have moved on. And I love what we have. DC, I hope the part of your post about winning a National Championship is right so we can find out if people can let go. And on our way to that championship I hope we go through DC again and we can share another pregame beverage.

You're buying next time!

[MFurey]

Good posts Nuts and DC.
Did Thad leave Xavier the best way? No, but he did leave the program bettershape than it was before he got here. I am sure he regrets the way he left Xavier but it was too good or an opportunity to turn down. Thad helped bring in 2 key players in our Elite 8 run last year in Duncan and Burrell and he got Sean to come to Xavier to be his top assistant. Xavier fans had the right to be upset when it all went down but I was over it as soon as Miller coached his first game. I think Xavier fans should look beyond the way Thad exited and focus on the great things he did for Xavier.

[Masterofreality]

The reaction to Thad by some Xavier fans is beyond puzzling. He left, and people are still talking how he left. I don't get it.

We will win the National Championship here and people will still talk about the summer of 2004. Like we are the only school on the planet where a coach left for another job. Amazing.

We are not the only school where a coach left, but we are also not the only school where a coach left after lying about his intentions.

It's about integrity, my friend DC.

Nick Saban was roasted all over the media for doing the exact same thing when he went to Alabama and Rich Rodriguez was roasted the same way when he went to Michigan. They both did the same dance that Beaknose did to Xavier. People don't appreciate being lied to- especially those who are the immediate superiors of the one who lies. Be honest, at least, with who you work for. Saban was called a "liar" by ESPN's Pat Forde and "shameless" by the Chicago Sun Times. Rodriguez lied in his pre-Fiesta Bowl press conference about interest in the Michigan job, thereby pissing off the entire state of West Virginia, the press and many observers.

Those with no integrity? Sorry, no respect from me- and many others either.

[Raoul Duke]

You guys are polluting my Out on the Mall experience with all this talk of integrity and forgiveness. I come here for the political rants and pictures of boobies, and that's it.

And threads involving the discussion of favorite beers and liquors.

[PMI]

Has anybody ever thought about the possibility that maybe these "lies" that coaches tell could be a result of the hounding pressure the media puts on them with their questions, often which are about rumors? If you've ever been put on the spot in that way at an awkward time, you might get caught in a bit of a predicament yourself. The way I see it, answering that question truthfully, diplomatically, or any other way puts you in a difficult and awkward position. Do some handle it better than others? Yea, but I for one would be hypocritical to judge someone in that position.

I'm sure the rest of you would have handled it perfectly though, without jeopardizing any of your future opportunities or the image of your loyalty to an institution, among everything else.

[Masterofreality]

Has anybody ever thought about the possibility that maybe these "lies" that coaches tell could be a result of the hounding pressure the media puts on them with their questions, often which are about rumors? If you've ever been put on the spot in that way at an awkward time, you might get caught in a bit of a predicament yourself. The way I see it, answering that question truthfully, diplomatically, or any other way puts you in a difficult and awkward position. Do some handle it better than others? Yea, but I for one would be hypocritical to judge someone in that position.

I'm sure the rest of you would have handled it perfectly though, without jeopardizing any of your future opportunities or the image of your loyalty to an institution, among everything else.

"F" the press, but be honest with the people who pay you and you report to, if nothing else.

[DC Muskie]

Now we are comparing Thad to Nick Saban and Rick Rodriguez.

Speaking of Rodriguez, the only thing Xavier has going for it, Thad's departure never turned into the stupid circus those hillbillies created.

MOR, I'll just say this. Integrity is word Xavier fans like to throw around. It's not a one way street. We want to pat ourselves on the back and think of how we do things differently, then whatever integrity many people think they have, start by forgiving, then moving on.

I mean, really is it hard to forgive and move on from something that had NOTHING to do with you?

[PMI]

I also love those of you who think the guy is such a big, wet, flopping bag of douche that he couldn't genuinely feel any happiness for seeing the school he once coached complete an incredible four game run to save a tough season, or feel happy for the friend he hired to finally catch a break in his first two seasons, without having to have some direct personal satisfaction that he gets some of the credit. He can't be forgiven for handling his exit in a less than perfect manner because Xavier fans are that emotionally tied to the situation, fine, but that's pretty vindictive to think that his capability of being proud of his former team and school is less than human.

But no, you guys think that he left Xavier with ill-feelings, used us like a drunken slut, and is laughing to himself saying, "I just made a few extra million dollars and I got to fuck over all those fans who actually believed I gave a shit about them," as he wags his pointy tail and throws another piece of XU memorabilia into the his fireplace.

Get over it.

[DC Muskie]

To sum up Xavier fans PMI...

They got dumped by the pretty girl their senior year of high school. They are now seniors in college and still want to talk about how the pretty girl dumped them right after prom. All the while mind you, they are humping the chicks who hang out with glow the four years in between. But it's about integrity. Xavier fans want to be dumped straight to their face, so they still have a reason, years down the road at reunions, to bitch about how horrible the pretty girl is.

Seriously, if Thad said in the middle of a press conference:

"Yes, I have integrity, and I would love the OSU job."

You all would be slinging your poo everywhere.

[Masterofreality]

I mean, really is it hard to forgive and move on from something that had NOTHING to do with you?

Damn straight! Nothing to do with ME?!!!

Xavier Basketball is my life, just like Indians baseball, Browns football and Lake Erie Monsters hockey!!!!:p

[gladdenguy]

I am definitely not pissed that Thad went to Ohio St. Enter Sean Miller. The best coach ever at Xavier University. The only reason I'm pissed at Thad is for not getting Anthony Myles out of that game and not beating Duke for the right to play Connecticut in the Final Four. Dang you beaky.

[PMI]

I don't think Thad would have had enough time to take a quick pick at his beaknose between Miles' fourth and fifth foul. Now that's something I need help getting over.

[Masterofreality]

They got dumped by the pretty girl their senior year of high school.....

....and she wound up in the trunk of a car.....

[nuts4xu]

The only reason I'm pissed at Thad is for not getting Anthony Myles out of that game and not beating Duke for the right to play Connecticut in the Final Four. Dang you beaky.

Now this is something I can keep a grudge about. Thad needed to pull Myles BEFORE he griped with the refs. If you watch that sequence, Thad was so busy bitching about AM's fourth foul, he didn't even send a player to the table until it was too late.

No excuse for this. You throw a chair, spit your gum on the floor and put it back in your mouth....hell....pull your pants off and jump up and down like a monkey, but you get that clock stopped and replace Myles no matter what in that situation. I have forgiven him for how he left, but this mistake has taken a little longer to get over.

[Muskie73]

The more important question - Thad who?

[The Artist]

I don't think Thad would have had enough time to take a quick pick at his beaknose between Miles' fourth and fifth foul. Now that's something I need help getting over.

My bro's a college ref and his opinion on the matter was that the refs inbounded the ball way too quickly.

He says they needed to know the situation, take their time reporting the foul to the score table, take their time getting to the spot out of bounds, and then bounce the ball several times before handing the ball to the inbounder only if they don't see the coach making a move to the bench.

[Jumpy]

Do you guys think the current RPI system is a good way of ranking teams?

Also, who is better: John McCain or Barack Obama?

Thanks.

Oh and feel free to throw in any thoughts on Johnny Wolf.

what ever do you mean? there is still plenty of tread left on those tires.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/7/6246911_5a74dfb2c9.jpg?v=0

[PMI]

My bro's a college ref and his opinion on the matter was that the refs inbounded the ball way too quickly.

He says they needed to know the situation, take their time reporting the foul to the score table, take their time getting to the spot out of bounds, and then bounce the ball several times before handing the ball to the inbounder only if they don't see the coach making a move to the bench.

I would agree with that assessment. Ask your brother how many of his co-workers took Duke in Vegas that game?

I don't want to become one of those fans that bitch about the refs because I can't stand that, but that sequence still really bothers me, especially to think that that's how Myles' solid Xavier career ended.

[vee4xu]

Those who know me understand that I was a huge Thad hater when he left. Well, more about how he left and how he lied about it. I understand and wholeheartedly supported MOR's position on the issue. I was there with him side-by-side. However, I now relate more to nuts' position on the issue. Xavier's success which culminated with almost beating them in Lexington, then with X getting to the Elite 8 while OSU played ud here in Columbus in an NIT game has allowed me to get past the issue. I have said before and will say again, the best thing I can think of to thank Thad for is that he hired Sean. As it turns out X got the better of the deal.

I was chastised on another board, in another posting life for supporting Miller and hating Thad during Sean's first two years. But, now I am happy that I stuck by Sean because he will take this team to levels never seen by our program. I agree with those who say that Thad aspired to a loftier position. I knew it because anyone who leaves their alma mater after one year for another job ain't stinkin' around Xavier too long.

I have no hate for Matta anyomre, but I still don't root for OSU basketball. But this has much more to do with them not playing in-state teams during the regular season than Matta being the coach. That was my beef with them before Matta came. Besides, unlike football, I have an Ohio men's basketball team to root for and it happens to be the best DI men's team in Ohio. And we have the best coach to go along with it.

[PMI]

I agree with you, vee, about hating OSU for not playing in-state rivals. It'd be one thing if they started doing this a few years ago, but even before Matta got there when they went through years of mediocrity they still thought they were too sweet for all the other good in-state competition.

For what it's worth, I was on the Miller bandwagon all along as well, and got chastised amongst a lot of my friends at Xavier my freshman and sophomore year for it. A bunch of my friends even talked about bringing a big "Fire Miller" sign to a game sophomore year, in the 05-06 season. Whoops. In fairness, they weren't life-long X fans like me and weren't as confident as I was that Bobinski wouldn't hire a loser coach.

[Cheesehead]

Wow, I'm impressed by all the responses. Was not expecting that, to be honest. One minor detail though, it was Dawn Rogers that actually hired Sean, not Bobo. Just about the only thing she got right during her short tenure.

I need some rep points for this, right? (Shameless, I know)

[Fred Garvin]

Do you guys think the current RPI system is a good way of ranking teams?

Also, who is better: John McCain or Barack Obama?

Thanks.

Oh and feel free to throw in any thoughts on Johnny Wolf.

Also, was Erik Edwards a high school Mcdonald's All American? And what about Anthony Coleman and those growth plates?

[Cheesehead]

...and who shot J.R.?

[gladdenguy]

I do not hate Thad as much as I first did, however, I refuse to be happy when he wins as opposed to back in the day when I rooted for Skip and Peter to do well.
Maybe I feel that way because I know Thad has and will have more success than Pete and Skip, I don't know. I would say at least 60% of it is the fact that I HATE everything to do with that university straight up I-71.