Olson Leaving Arizona

[XU05and07]

After all the turmoil in AZ...Lute Olson steps down

Olson Steps Down (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3659611)

[SM#24]

Weird year of events surrounding him

[xufan02]

Does AZ remain a National Program with Olson gone, or do they go back to the days before Olson? Xavier has shown that we are more than who our coach is for the most part. I wonder how Arizona will rebound.

[Fred Garvin]

Is anybody else confirming this beside Dick Vitale?

[Juice]

Is anybody else confirming this beside Dick Vitale?

Deadspin is not convinced by ESPN's report. I wouldnt either considering the bullshit ESPN pulled with the Favre story.

http://deadspin.com/5067761/lute-olson-leaving-arizona--or-not

[bobbyboucher]

I am in Tucson and the media is handling this very carefully. No real word from anyone. With the UofA being the big draw and basketball being the #1 thing going on I think that until there is official word it will be very hush hush i.e the situation last year with his time off.

[jdm2000]

If it's true, how long till the Jamie Dixon to Arizona rumors start?

[Tardy Turtle]

Him throwing O'Neill under the bus was way douchey.

[MD Muskie]

If it's true, how long till the Jamie Dixon to Arizona rumors start?

NOW. Gary Parrish from cbs.sportline.com also broke the story and mentioned Mark Few and Jamie Dixon as names to coach there.

[waggy]

Him throwing O'Neill under the bus was way douchey.

You never know... Might be that the AD didn't want O'Neill...

Whatever the case it's pretty obvious there is a lot behind the scenes in this deal.

[wkrq59]

NOW. Gary Parrish from cbs.sportline.com also broke the story and mentioned Mark Few and Jamie Dixon as names to coach there.

I am puzzled as to why Dixon or Few would, at this time of year-season, even accept a phone call from Tucson or from anyone connected with U of A.
That's what hacks me about the "likely candidates" B.S. The only things it does is create a lot of internet chatter and speculation and a lot of headaches for reporters and broadcasters around the country, who constantly have to chase down that crap.
Best scenario if he's leaving immediately is an interim hire will be made from the present staff, unless of course, a "Matta type" could be found, who'd be willing to live in the desert for the rest of his life/career.:D

[Muskie]

Me too... it's way to late in the year for this type of move.

[bobbyboucher]

Mike Dunlap will be the interm coach for the season. After that they will conduct a national search that I am sure will focus on some pretty big names with UofA or west coast ties.

[Muskie]

Mike Dunlap will be the interm coach for the season. After that they will conduct a national search that I am sure will focus on some pretty big names with UofA or west coast ties.

Unless of course Dunlap does well.

[MHettel]

Bobby Knight is available....

[GuyFawkes38]

Does AZ remain a National Program with Olson gone, or do they go back to the days before Olson? Xavier has shown that we are more than who our coach is for the most part. I wonder how Arizona will rebound.

I think the program might decline. I can't imagine the state of Arizona is filled with a lot of Bball talent. Olson had to recruit nationally to build the school into a powerhouse. Most of the talent in that part of the country lies in Los Angeles, where Arizona will struggle to recruit against UCLA, USC, Cal, Stanford, and Arizona State.

Of course, there's always the possibility that the donors will make up whatever Arizona's geography lacks. I'm slightly afraid that Dixon is naturally a good fit there.

[bobbyboucher]

Muskie you are totally right. If Dunlap has success he could get the job for good. It will be very tough though. The people here in Tucson have ridiculous standards and a good job is not only getting into the NCAA's but advancing. They have talent with Jordan Hill, Chanse Budinger, Nic Wise but I'm just not sure it will be enough. Another huge factor will be if they hold the recruiting class together. Abdul Gaddy would have been the next line of great PG's and if the current staff can keep them it will bolster their chances at sticking around.

[Stonebreaker]

He had some great teams, one of my favs being with Sean Elliot on there. He was a class guy for the most part. He'll be missed in college hoops.

[Fred Garvin]

I thought Jamie Dixon coached at Northern Arizona with Ben Howland. I wonder if he'd have issues going up against Howland and UCLA.

[GuyFawkes38]

I am puzzled as to why Dixon or Few would, at this time of year-season, even accept a phone call from Tucson or from anyone connected with U of A.
That's what hacks me about the "likely candidates" B.S. The only things it does is create a lot of internet chatter and speculation and a lot of headaches for reporters and broadcasters around the country, who constantly have to chase down that crap.
Best scenario if he's leaving immediately is an interim hire will be made from the present staff, unless of course, a "Matta type" could be found, who'd be willing to live in the desert for the rest of his life/career.:D

it looks like they will likely opt for an interim coach.

As for whether it's an attractive job, I don't know. On the one hand, like I said above, I don't think Arizona has a strong recruiting base instate and a coach must recruit in L.A. and countrywide to succeed. That's not easy (especially when UCLA and USC are actually in the city). And the expectations will be high.

On the other hand, I'm sure they will dish out a lot of money and I bet they have incredible facilities. As for desert life...I'm sure many would prefer it over Pittsburgh (although I certainly wouldn't).

[AdamtheFlyer]

Yeah, this guy will do nothing more than hold serve this year.

This job can be a gold mine. You have a rather large state school known for hoops, and the new coach will be inheriting a roster ripe for instant rebuilding. It's the perfect storm, you have a high level program with plenty of open spots to play immediately. A good coach will get that program back to the top ten within two years. It would be fairly easy (in relative terms) to lock up an "Oden, Conley, Cook" like class.

I think Dixon and Few are obvious choices. A big name coach to keep an eye on perhaps? Rick Barnes. Just seems like a good fit. Big name coach that's relevant with young kids, great recruiter, and proven winner that is constantly in the shadow of his own school's football program no matter how well he does. I'm not even sure it would take much of a raise to get him.

[waggy]

I wish they would just keep propping up Lute like they do Joe Pa. Then I wouldn't have to worry...

[GuyFawkes38]

Yeah, this guy will do nothing more than hold serve this year.

This job can be a gold mine. You have a rather large state school known for hoops, and the new coach will be inheriting a roster ripe for instant rebuilding. It's the perfect storm, you have a high level program with plenty of open spots to play immediately. A good coach will get that program back to the top ten within two years. It would be fairly easy (in relative terms) to lock up an "Oden, Conley, Cook" like class.

I think Dixon and Few are obvious choices. A big name coach to keep an eye on perhaps? Rick Barnes. Just seems like a good fit. Big name coach that's relevant with young kids, great recruiter, and proven winner that is constantly in the shadow of his own school's football program no matter how well he does. I'm not even sure it would take much of a raise to get him.


I think your overestimating the Arizona program a bit. Before Olson arrived, the program struggled. And even during Olson's tenure, the bball program has been inconsistent.

I just checked their current roster and only one player is from the state of Arizona. The others are predominantly from California and Texas.

The Odens and Conleys of the world won't pop up in Arizona. If they do pop up in California, chances are UCLA will get them (or possibly USC).


From a purely basketball point view, I don't think it would be a good move for Dixon to move from Pittsburgh. He has a great thing going at Pitt. He's getting paid a ton. He's doing a great job recruiting. And the expectations will be unrealistic at Arizona.

But who knows. He might want to move back west.

[GoMuskies]

That's what hacks me about the "likely candidates" B.S. The only things it does is create a lot of internet chatter and speculation and a lot of headaches for reporters and broadcasters around the country, who constantly have to chase down that crap.

Yeah, I feel awful that they have to do their jobs. Who starts those rumors anyway? Oh yeah, sportswriters.

[AdamtheFlyer]

I think your overestimating the Arizona program a bit. Before Olson arrived, the program struggled. And even during Olson's tenure, the bball program has been inconsistent.

I just checked their current roster and only one player is from the state of Arizona. The others are predominantly from California and Texas.

The Odens and Conleys of the world won't pop up in Arizona. If they do pop up in California, chances are UCLA will get them (or possibly USC).


From a purely basketball point view, I don't think it would not be a good move for Dixon to move from Pittsburgh. He has a great thing going at Pitt. He's getting paid a ton. He's doing a great job recruiting. And the expectations will be unrealistic at Arizona.

But who knows. He might want to move back west.

$$$. Zona has major boosters with no legit football team to compete for donations with. Basketball is what they do.

Arizona will be fine with the right coach. Olsen has really hurt them the last few years with his on again, off again style. Granted, personal matters are what's most important, but hanging on as a distant coaching figure hurt them big time. Kevin O'Neill was the face of the program last year. Seriously.

But Arizona had Brandon Jennings committed. A couple more correct answers on the ACT and Jennings is an all-america candidate. They got Bayliss. Point being, 'Zona can get players even in turmoil. Stability at the top will help them land and keep more.

And many said Oden was a lock to IU way back when (4-5 years ago). Locational recruiting in the upper tier is gone, and the effect is trickling down.

[PMI]

Guy, Arizona was not much before he got there, true, but it is now a big time Pac 10 team with tradition and is a very attractive place for hoops. There is a ton of talent on the west coast, and while you are correct that the UCLA's and Stanford's will take a lot of it, Arizona will probably find a good head coach who can keep the blue chips coming. If nothing else, just remember this:

http://www.humorpass.com/media/Pictures/hot-arizona-girls.jpg

University of Arizona will always showcase talent, and thus will continue to attract more talent.

[GuyFawkes38]

Yeah, maybe I'm wrong.

Perhaps I'm under appreciating wealthy boosters, great weather, and hot coeds.

[Fred Garvin]

It wasn't till I read Guy's post that I knew USC was such a powerhouse recruiter. I'm sure the rest of the Pac 10 would like to know this info.

I am genuinely interested in hearing Adam expound on the limits of locational recruiting.

Me, I thought Arizona's problems started when bad ass Ben Howland road into town.

Remember when some of you bleated about Thad Matta handing the job off to his unproven protege in big Ol' Cincy. Seems kind of small time when you consider Howland and his protege are gonna have a gunfight for the entire West.

[GuyFawkes38]

It wasn't till I read Guy's post that I knew USC was such a powerhouse recruiter. I'm sure the rest of the Pac 10 would like to know this info.

I am genuinely interested in hearing Adam expound on the limits of locational recruiting.

Me, I thought Arizona's problems started when bad ass Ben Howland road into town.

Remember when some of you bleated about Thad Matta handing the job off to his unproven protege in big Ol' Cincy. Seems kind of small time when you consider Howland and his protege are gonna have a gunfight for the entire West.


UCLA has ALWAYS been in a better position to recruit than Arizona. They are a better program (the stats show that...even through the Lavin years).

Mock me if you want, but USC, Arizona St., and Stanford will all challenge Arizona for recruits on an even playing field (and they all have been for the past 10 years). I don't think Arizona is an easy job.

[AdamtheFlyer]

I am genuinely interested in hearing Adam expound on the limits of locational recruiting.

There's no limits, it just doesn't happen like people tend to think. Great players from Indiana go to UNC without batting an eye. California kids hop a plane to Duke in droves. Arizona only having one in-state player means nothing. They'll get stud players.

[MADXSTER]

Unfortunately they've already lost two 2009 recruits. A 5 star player and a 4 star player. The other 4 star player is still mulling things over.

[Muskie]

Muskie you are totally right. If Dunlap has success he could get the job for good. It will be very tough though. The people here in Tucson have ridiculous standards and a good job is not only getting into the NCAA's but advancing. They have talent with Jordan Hill, Chanse Budinger, Nic Wise but I'm just not sure it will be enough. Another huge factor will be if they hold the recruiting class together. Abdul Gaddy would have been the next line of great PG's and if the current staff can keep them it will bolster their chances at sticking around.

Dunlap i believed coached several National Champions in Division II (if I remember the correct Dunlap). He's not a slouch of a coach by any means.

[drudy23]

Me too... it's way to late in the year for this type of move.

No it's not...money talks.

[Muskie]

No it's not...money talks.

How much more can Arizona offer Dixon? It's not like Pitt is devoid of deep pocket donors.

[GuyFawkes38]

How much more can Arizona offer Dixon? It's not like Pitt is devoid of deep pocket donors.

true. And I think last year showed us that many coaches are often not willing to leave for better programs which offer more money. Yes, that sounds crazy (who wouldn't want to leave for a better program offering more money), but the better programs also have unreasonable expectations. Arizona will demand final fours. And I honestly think its not as easy of a place to recruit to as most people think.

I think the bottom line: Many coaches fear going to schools with unreasonable expectations (Indiana is a good example). And there is a credit factor too. No matter how much success a coach has at Indiana or Arizona, detractors will always say, "Knight/Olson really built this program".

[West is Best]

I think Arizona is one of the better jobs to open up in the last few years. Outside of USC and UCLA, Arizona has a strong of presence in LA as anyone. Being 3rd place in a densely populated region really isn't a bad situation at all. A lot of people from Southern California have moved to Vegas and Arizona, and that creates an advantage for them.

Finally, Arizona is growing. Granted, a decent amount of that growth may have been in the 65+ crowd, but the state will become a better area to recruit in the future. Arizona State's football program has already benefitted from this.

Compare all this to say, Indiana. Indiana is a shrinking state with massive NCAA issues and they still got a quality coach (even if his resume is courtesy of Dwyane Wade). U of A's best bet is to land a fired NBA coach, its worked well for USC and its what they are known best for. If not, I'd imagine they could convince a Big 12 school's coach to join them.

[XUglow]

Arizona is not Idaho or Wyoming. California kids grow up thinking about going to Arizona or ASU as one of their top choices. Believe it or not, there are a whole lot of people in California that don't like Los Angeles very much, and Arizona has as much of a shot at them as anyone.

High school basketball in California is top-notch. They produce a lot of high-quality players, and only a few of them can go to UCLA. As long as Arizona has a good coach, there will be plenty of availble talent next door.

[wkrq59]

Dixon might be foolish to leave Pittsburgh. His only competition in the state is maybe, and it's a strong maybe, is Villanova. The Big Ten's Penn State is and always will be a football school whose basketball program is plagued by a number of factors, including the presence of three A10 teams in Philadelphia. State College Pa. is hard as hell to reach and the volleyball teams draw almost as well as the hoopsters.
Granted, LaSalle, Temple and St. Joe's aren't exactly looked on as severe competition for Pitt. Neither is Robert Morris.
I think Dixon believes he can have great success where he is as does Sean. There is one other factor to consider.
The Pac 10. As has been pointed out, UCLA, USC, Stanford, California, Arizona and Arizona State and even the two Washingtons pose heavier recruiting competition and opposition than say Georgetown, Syracuse, West Virginia, Marquette and even Notre Dame of late. ASU is attractive, but whoever follows Olsen is bound to suffer comparisons. :D

[XUglow]

ASU is attractive, but whoever follows Olsen is bound to suffer comparisons. :D

ASU women are attractive, but the basketball job... not so much. U of A is a different story.

[MADXSTER]

2009 commits

Mike Moser 4star recruit from Portland Or. has decommitted
Solomon Hill 4star recruit from LA has decommitted

Abdul Gaddy 5 star recruit from Tacoma WA is still on the fence.

So Arizona pulls top recruits from Oregon, California, and Washington.

[XU05and07]

Dunlap i believed coached several National Champions in Division II (if I remember the correct Dunlap). He's not a slouch of a coach by any means.

With Dunlap declining the job...it's on to Pennell

[GuyFawkes38]

Finally, Arizona is growing. Granted, a decent amount of that growth may have been in the 65+ crowd, but the state will become a better area to recruit in the future. Arizona State's football program has already benefitted from this.

Compare all this to say, Indiana. Indiana is a shrinking state with massive NCAA issues and they still got a quality coach (even if his resume is courtesy of Dwyane Wade). U of A's best bet is to land a fired NBA coach, its worked well for USC and its what they are known best for. If not, I'd imagine they could convince a Big 12 school's coach to join them.

I think you raise some good points. But to counter your arguments, let me add a couple things:

1. There is a Fawker theory of Bball/football popularity. Densely populated states tend to favor and produce more basketball players (Northeast, Midwest) while less densely populated states tend to favor and produce more football players (Texas, California, southern states). California and Texas by far have the most current NFL players from them. And even though the south is less populous than the midwest and northeast, they produce more current NFL players.

So while it's true that Arizona might be growing, my guess is that most of that growth is spread out and hence less favorable to develop bball talent. By in large, western schools have struggled to succeed in college basketball.

2. Indiana/Illinois/Ohio have a rich tradition of high school basketball. I don't think the same can be said of Arizona. It's mind boggling to think of the talent which came out of these states in the past 10 years (starting with Lebron James). Certainly the declining population of Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois hasn't had much effect on their ability to produce talent.


I don't doubt that Lute Olson has done an incredible job recruiting in the past 15 years. I'm just saying that I don't think it's as envious of a job as you might think. I think Arizona is similar to Maryland and Syracuse. Good bball programs with great coaches. When those coaches leave, the programs will likely drop.

[Muskie]

wow...just wow.

http://forum.goazcats.com/showthread.php?t=83353

[MADXSTER]

Muskie,

I consider this to be on par with UC's horrible timing in regards to having a coaching change. What do you think? 09' recruits are leaving, they probably won't get a coach until after this season and their 10' recruits will be left overs or it will be too late to start courting the 10' recruits to get any of the top guys left.

That's two recruiting seasons down the drain.

[GuyFawkes38]

So why did Dunlap refuse the head spot at Arizona? Some say he refused because Arizona didn't offer him enough cash. I think what really happened is that he stumbled on XavierHoops, read my skeptical posts on the prestige of the Arizona program, and decided the head coaching spot isn't worth it.

Olson is really messing up the program. His behavior in the past 2 years has been more than sloppy

[GuyFawkes38]

Gary Parrish is convinced that it will either be Dixon or Few.

http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/11286230

Well that article makes me a little nervous. Although I noticed some posters at the Arizona board object to Dixon because of his teams' boring style of play.

And the Pitt scout board seems oddly too confident that Dixon won't leave:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=141&f=2456&t=3255646

[waggy]

Russ Pennell was as surprised as anyone to be selected as the interim replacement for retired Arizona coach Lute Olson on Friday.

“Obviously, when I woke up this morning, I didn’t expect to be sitting in front of you,” Pennell told reporters at a McKale Center news conference.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-arizona-coach&prov=ap&type=lgns

[XU05and07]

2009 commits

Mike Moser 4star recruit from Portland Or. has decommitted
Solomon Hill 4star recruit from LA has decommitted

Abdul Gaddy 5 star recruit from Tacoma WA is still on the fence.

So Arizona pulls top recruits from Oregon, California, and Washington.

Gaddy joins the others in pulling out of their commitments

3 Recruits back out of Arizona commitments (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3667137)

[DAllen15]

<<Olson is really messing up the program. His behavior in the past 2 years has been more than sloppy>.

Vitale took pretty much that position on Mike & Mike this morning, pointing out that Olson had not only run off O'Neill (who DV thought had done a good job in Olson's absence) but other long-time assistants (Rosborough, Simon, etc.) as well.

[PMI]

<<Olson is really messing up the program. His behavior in the past 2 years has been more than sloppy>.

Vitale took pretty much that position on Mike & Mike this morning, pointing out that Olson had not only run off O'Neill (who DV thought had done a good job in Olson's absence) but other long-time assistants (Rosborough, Simon, etc.) as well.

That's exactly how Mr. Neutral would quote a post, with the << >> !!!

Just kidding.

[DAllen15]

What's a better way to show a qoute than "<<>>"? I'm open to suggestion on this earth-shattering point.

[waggy]

What's a better way to show a qoute than "<<>>"? I'm open to suggestion on this earth-shattering point.


Answer above.

[DAllen15]

OK, I see it now, but it doesn't really seem like less work. Thanks.

[PMI]

I would like to reiterate that I was kidding. I would never want to redirect the topic of a thread.

[jdm2000]

I think you raise some good points. But to counter your arguments, let me add a couple things:

1. There is a Fawker theory of Bball/football popularity. Densely populated states tend to favor and produce more basketball players (Northeast, Midwest) while less densely populated states tend to favor and produce more football players (Texas, California, southern states). California and Texas by far have the most current NFL players from them. And even though the south is less populous than the midwest and northeast, they produce more current NFL players.

So while it's true that Arizona might be growing, my guess is that most of that growth is spread out and hence less favorable to develop bball talent. By in large, western schools have struggled to succeed in college basketball.

2. Indiana/Illinois/Ohio have a rich tradition of high school basketball. I don't think the same can be said of Arizona. It's mind boggling to think of the talent which came out of these states in the past 10 years (starting with Lebron James). Certainly the declining population of Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois hasn't had much effect on their ability to produce talent.



Just to quibble on a couple things--because isn't that what message boards are for?

1) California is more densely populated than Illinois or Indiana, and only two spots behind Ohio on the list. Florida, another key southern football state, is actually more densely populated than Ohio (which is #9 on the list). Texas is 26th in population denisty.

2) Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois are not declining in population. They just aren't growing as fast as other places. For the 2000 census, Ohio's population increased 4.7%, Illinois' 8.6%, and Indiana's 9.7% from the previous census. Even as bad as the 2000's have been for Ohio, the census estimates that the state's population has increased in this decade.

3) Growth in Arizona: Arizona had 2.7 million people as of the 1980 census, and 5.1 million people as of the 2000 census. Current population estimate for Arizona is 6.3 million people, with 4.6 million of those living in the Phoenix metro area. So the growth in Arizona is pretty concentrated in Phoenix.


(Sorry, I kind of follow these demographic things.)

[GuyFawkes38]

Just to quibble on a couple things--because isn't that what message boards are for?

1) California is more densely populated than Illinois or Indiana, and only two spots behind Ohio on the list. Florida, another key southern football state, is actually more densely populated than Ohio (which is #9 on the list). Texas is 26th in population denisty.

2) Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois are not declining in population. They just aren't growing as fast as other places. For the 2000 census, Ohio's population increased 4.7%, Illinois' 8.6%, and Indiana's 9.7% from the previous census. Even as bad as the 2000's have been for Ohio, the census estimates that the state's population has increased in this decade.

3) Growth in Arizona: Arizona had 2.7 million people as of the 1980 census, and 5.1 million people as of the 2000 census. Current population estimate for Arizona is 6.3 million people, with 4.6 million of those living in the Phoenix metro area. So the growth in Arizona is pretty concentrated in Phoenix.


(Sorry, I kind of follow these demographic things.)

Huh, that's interesting. I guess maybe what I should of said that places with a more recently transplanted population tend to favor football.

or maybe its all just QWERTY/randomness. Some places develop basketball traditions and others don't.

On the whole, football is more popular in the west than basketball (perhaps with the exception of Los Angeles).

[xuab]

Interesting article (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-arizona-olson&prov=ap&type=lgns) that says Lute had a stroke this year and was treated for depression. Seems like his doctor advised him to quit.