Why don't we have scholarship football anymore???

[XU2424]

I might not fully understand the economics of it all, so hopefully one of you all do and can explain it to me. Why don't we have a D1 or D2/scholarship team anymore? Now, when my dad was at X we did and while I was there I never explored much why we didn't, but...why??? Dayton (which is good this year), Georgetown, Duquense and other smaller catholic schools manage to put a team on the field, why not us?? They all have similar enrollment and as far as I know similar endowment. I know we have a club team now, and I am not trying to take away from them by any means, but its not the same as going to NCAA games. I would love to see X with a team, hell, I would give more money to the athletic department to do so! Since I was a child I have been a Notre Dame fan, but X never had a team for me to be passionate about. My dad will still tell me stories about when they used to play. I want to see it again. So please, out of ignorance on my part, why did we lose/never regain our team???

[xu95]

The problem with having scholorship football is they would then need to put more money in some programs for women's sports.

xu95

[Muskie]

If we bring back scholarship football we can also bring back the Women's rifle team. A win-win in my book.

[Juice]

Dayton is non-scholarship, so that is how they afford it. Plus, the play at Welcome Stadium which is a dump. I also think Georgetown is non-scholarship, but I am not positive.
Georgetown and Ivy League teams can all attract decent players because of the education they offer and they also give scholarships in non-athletic forms.

[XUglow]

Danny Abramowitz is not walking through that door.

[Masterofreality]

Here's the story in a nutshell.

Xavier, in the early 1970's, was losing over $500,000 a year on its football program. That was a ton of money in 1972. The university also had a transition in its presidency from Father O'Connor, who was a huge backer of sports, to Father Mulligan who was a
"Philosopher" and not a sports fan at all. Xavier at that time was somewhat financially challenged, and the basketball program was not doing well either. There was even talk that Mulligan would force a downgrade of Xavier's programs to Division 2 or even Division 3 level. The result was that a compromise decision was made to drop football and keep everything else Division 1. Thank Gawd for People like Bill Daley and Jim McCafferty who, at least saved basketball and eventually got XU in a conference. Xavier was not the only school that dropped football back in that era. Loyola Chicago, Marquette, Detroit and even Villanova dropped the sport back then, although Villanova has brought it back at, first Division 3 and now 1AA.

The problem is now that it would take a huge dollar amount to rebuild the program and then also fund the needed Womens matching scholarship sports under Title IX. No one would want to to it half way at a lower division, so you would need to go at least to 1AA. What would be needed?

First of all, an initial minimum $10-$20 million start up seed money to rebuild Xavier Stadium, buy all the ancillary weight and training equipment and renovate the O'Connor Sports Center or Schmidt Fieldhouse into the football center, then there would be a need for another renovation of either of the above to be the full student intermural sports center. Then you'd need an ongoing $50 million endowment that would continually fund the football program for salaries, scholarships, travel, etc. This amount of money is needed so as not to take away or damage the basketball program.

This football money would all have to be fresh money not drawn from any other source in the school. The Hoff Academic Quad project is spending $90 million. That is the school's priority, and well it should be.

If there is a fat cat donor out there with about $20 million to seed the project, I'm sure that alumni like me will step up and give a couple of thousand apiece to the "football endowment." But unless someone like that shows up, keep enjoying club football. No one wants to diminish the basketball program with an underfunded, ill-fated venture back into football.

[nickgyp]

I'd love to see Xavier compete in the PFL league with Dayton, Drake, Campbell, Davidson, etc, in 1-AA non-scholarship football. MOR: Not so sure that the numbers you mention are what would be required but agreed that a big name donor would need to step up. But as it is now, the Xavier club team plays good football that is fun to watch. I encourage all Xavier fans to come out root for the Muskie gridders. Getting behind this team is vital for the time being. The effort of coach Powers, staff and team is noteworthy and deserves our support.

[Masterofreality]

Here's the excerpt from a Cleveland Plain Dealer article about Cleveland State's consideration of a football program:

"Starting from nothing is quite difficult

Football is expensive enough just to operate. But starting a program from scratch is a huge undertaking.

"The up-front cost is enormous," Rhoades said.

Xavier University in Cincinnati, which had a football team until 1973, has weighed reviving the program from time to time. But economics get in the way. The school would have to build a training room, weight room, buy equipment and carve out a practice field. And that's on top of operating expenses.

"It's not a conversation that makes a whole lot of sense for Xavier to engage in right now," said Athletic Director Mike Bobinski, because the college is building a business school and involved in other campus development. Instead, a few years ago the Catholic university initiated a club team, which plays at a local high school and usually draws a few thousand fans."

[GuyFawkes38]

If there is a fat cat donor out there with about $20 million to seed the project, I'm sure that alumni like me will step up and give a couple of thousand apiece to the "football endowment." But unless someone like that shows up, keep enjoying club football. No one wants to diminish the basketball program with an underfunded, ill-fated venture back into football.

If such a donor emerges, X should try to convince him or her to donate to the basketball program instead.

I think there's a real risk that building a football program (regardless of its division status) will take away funds from the basketball program. The risks outweigh the benefits (UD is living the dream right now with their football program....is it really worth it????).

[wkrq59]

And in addition to that MOR, those figures were given I believe before the current economic situation went in the krapper. Stay with the club. If you doubt how much of a drain fb can be check out the drain fb has beeen on UMass, Duquesne, Rhode Island, Fordham and others of that rank, including Dayton. UD was originally DIII and won championships until the other D3 members got pised because UD had a very successful bkbl program and was attracting the better players from the Vinvinnati area because they gave financial aid based on need. But that's when they were forced into D1-AA non scholarship. Football for Xavier is a bad thought.

[nickgyp]

IWhile I disagree that a non-scholarship football program would necessarily be a drain on X's basketball program, I believe the club team deserves our support. I believe people who come to the games enjoy the efforts of the coaches and players.

(As for football being bad economics, how does that explain the nuber of schools are starting programs and/or reviving them? Campbell U., Lincoln U. Pa., Libscomb, etc.. I am not saying that X should revive intercollegiate football at the moment but the option should be considered if the circumstances appear ripe. The ever declining number of available college students might force X into looking into ways to attract students particularly males.)

[Masterofreality]

IWhile I disagree that a non-scholarship football program would necessarily be a drain on X's basketball program, I believe the club team deserves our support. I believe people who come to the games enjoy the efforts of the coaches and players.

(As for football being bad economics, how does that explain the nuber of schools are starting programs and/or reviving them? Campbell U., Lincoln U. Pa., Libscomb, etc.. I am not saying that X should revive intercollegiate football at the moment but the option should be considered if the circumstances appear ripe. The ever declining number of available college students might force X into looking into ways to attract students particularly males.)

Don't necessarily disagree, Nick, but....

LaSalle tried a lower version of Division 1AA non-scholarship and it was an embarrassment. Dookcane had some early success but is now struggling. Both of those A-10 schools have had their basketball programs continue to struggle while trying football. LaSalle finally gave up the ghost.

My point is, unless you are able to do it right, with the proper funding and resources, don't start it at all. Don't create something that is embarrassingly bad that even the students won't support.

[nickgyp]

MOR:

LaSalle's effort failed but then again their basketball program has been floundering as well so I am not sure how one impacted the other. Oddly enough, this year, Duquesne opted to go scholarship which I question given the costs involved. I do know the Rooney family has donated to Duquesne so there is a benefactor of sorts but even with the "Steeler" support, I am not sure it is the right move for the Dukes.

I enjoyed watching today's win over Miami in Oxford. Can't say enough about the effort of the Muskie footballers. They played inspired football and it was well worth the $5.00 admission and gas to Oxford. Gorgeous day. Dressed in white jerseys and white pants adorned with the navy blue stripes, the team looked good and played really well. These kids played their hearts out and Saturday's home game with Marquette should be a whole lot of fun.