Most UNpopular Xavier player

[MADXSTER]

There are many players we like and some we dislike. Some we like as players yet dislike as individuals. Some we dislike as players yet like as individuals.

And then there are those we simply dislike period.

I'm already cheating and saying that player hasn't arrived yet. However, I can tell you who it pretty much will be............The first senior Xavier player who doesn't graduate breaking the long standing and continued tradition. His name will be mudd. He will be branded a Benedict Arnold. It will be very very ugly.

[waggy]

Happy Friday everyone!!

[American X]

Boooooooooooo!!!

[The Artist]

People who became a fan the year after the run (many in the class of 08) will probably say Dedrick Finn.

Personally, the only player that I was never really thrilled with was Caudle.

[MADXSTER]

Alot of people didn't care for Caudle because he brought a brazen attitude. I didn't care for it myself, but I do think it was something the team needed. As you know it takes all different kinds to make up a good team.

[xeus]

Johnny Wolf

[ATL Muskie]

Odia.

He shocked the world.

[XU05and07]

Guy Fawkes

[PMI]

I was often frustrated with Caudle as a player, but I have nothing bad to say about him otherwise. He was popular with the players and had a great sense of humor. On the court, he played with intensity, and while it sometimes led to over-aggressiveness and silly mistakes, I appreciate that kind of effort.
Don't forget, you're talking about the same Will Caudle who dropped 40 in a game for the Indiana Alleycats. I think it's safe to say his name is now only mentioned with the greatest legends in the state's history after that, probably somewhere between Wooden and Bird.

[MADXSTER]

Guy Fawkes never played ball with Xavier. He only played with his own balls.

[MADXSTER]

Guy Fawkes never played ball with Xavier. He only played with his own balls.

In the class room. Thus, why he's so UNpopular.

[sirthought]

Caudle did make a lot of goofy mistakes, but I thought his spirit on the court was great and exactly what too many of the Xavier teams lack. I think if he was played more early in his career he might have straightened up sooner.

I was always kind of peeved at Lloyd Price for just being an idiot off the court. His behavior hasn't gotten him too far.

[pickledpigsfeet]

Lloyd Price. He came in with such high expectations but only showed flashes of brilliance and never became a consistent player. I always felt he lacked the drive and determination to work hard and get better and felt like he always played thinking that he could take plays off and turn it on anytime he wanted.

Additionally, he was famous for the 359 degree dunk that looked awesome while he was going up but clanked off the back or front of the rim. How many dunks did that kid miss?

And lastly, he left after not being able to keep things together and the tried to pull off that stupid robbery in a store he went to all the time with a starters gun.

Thanks for tarnishing the Xavier image.

[Mrs. Garrett]

What about Brian Hanley. He was a Street and Smith All American whose weight ballooned and never even played a single game before flunking out.

Also, I was never a fan of Tyson Brit. He didn't seem to be much better than the rest of us playing down at the rec center.

[Lloyd Christmas]

I loved Will Caudle. He always brought intensity to the game.

[_LH]

Kevin Frey.

[cutterX]

I always liked Michael Davenport until I played against him in the Blue Ash Rec league about 10-15 years ago. He dropped me with a forearm shiver to the chest as he was heading back up the court after a made basket. I never did figure out why but I've thought he was a prick to this day for that.

[GuyFawkes38]

Stanley Burrell...Way too much hype.

[X-man]

Odia hands down. Not only did he fail to play to his ability, he showed no interest in developing. His attitude was potentially poisonous, so I was very happy to see the backside of him. There was another guard who transferred (out west I think) because he was unhappy with his PT and his helicopter parents couldn't deal with it. His name was Jaison Williams and like Odia, was a kid who believed the team should adapt to HIM rather than the other way around. Williams runs a close second to Odia in my book.

[Snipe]

David West. He was soft and he got all the calls from A-10 refs because he was a crybaby.

Signed, Dayton and Richmond fans

I hope that anyone who disrespects Will Caudle gets food poisoning and vomits for 24 hours. Iron Will! What a baller!

[XU05and07]

Odia hands down. Not only did he fail to play to his ability, he showed no interest in developing. His attitude was potentially poisonous, so I was very happy to see the backside of him. There was another guard who transferred (out west I think) because he was unhappy with his PT and his helicopter parents couldn't deal with it. His name was Jaison Williams and like Odia, was a kid who believed the team should adapt to HIM rather than the other way around. Williams runs a close second to Odia in my book.

I'm gonna stand up for Jaison Williams a little bit. His/My freshman year, we took a class together and he was out with a few people that I hung out with. He was excited about playing...he was Skip's recruit, he enjoyed Xavier, but Matta never took a liking to him. It was a clash from the first minute of the season on. I really think he tried, but moved on to somewhere that he thought he had a better chance of playing and be someone's choice rather than someone's hand-me-downs.

[XUglow]

My vote is for Odia.

[Snipe]

Williams was pushed out for Dedrick Finn, no doubt about that. He went on to have a decent career at Oklahoma.

[Snipe]

Johnny Wolf


You just couldn't help yourself. Shame on you.

[muskienick]

Erik Edwards --- for developing as little as any player ever to play for XU for his entire college career. (Second place --- Jon Hanley --- for not having a clue what the definitions of 'defense' and 'passing' were.)

[BiggieXU]

I'm gonna stand up for Jaison Williams a little bit. His/My freshman year, we took a class together and he was out with a few people that I hung out with. He was excited about playing...he was Skip's recruit, he enjoyed Xavier, but Matta never took a liking to him. It was a clash from the first minute of the season on. I really think he tried, but moved on to somewhere that he thought he had a better chance of playing and be someone's choice rather than someone's hand-me-downs.
Not to mention his constant 2nd place finishes in the Kuhlman 6th floor PS2 NCAA Football 2002 tournaments.

[Fred Garvin]

Jaison Willams was the reason we came back and won at Richmond. The kid knew how to split a zone.

[Titanxman04]

Artist, you're right. Finn, without a doubt.

Caudle, while I didn't care for him too much, and he had hands of stone... He had spirit and that was enough for me to accept him and thus, I didn't mind watching him play. Grant it, he certainly was not near my favorite.

Finn, on the other hand.. His attitude off the court was annoying and cocky to put it lightly. He thought he was larger than life, and while that may be good to an extent for someone playing D-1 ball, he lacked the skills and the leadership to allow for such an attitude. He put himself first over the team over and over again. He had numerous run-ins with the law, and on top of that, he wasn't at all productive on the court. After the Run, I felt he completely fizzled out and I still feel that Xavier wasn't as strong as they possibly could be because he was running the point.

[Swifty]

Did Caudle score something like 18 points to beat Dayton at UD arena? i may be confusing things, but if so that alone should remove him from the list.

[The Artist]

Did Caudle score something like 18 points to beat Dayton at UD arena? i may be confusing things, but if so that alone should remove him from the list.

I remember him scoring 18ish in the game against IU at Conseco (OT loss). I also remember him shooting several 15 foot baby hooks throughout his career.

To clarify, I did not dislike the guy at all, I just didn't think as highly of him as others.

[vee4xu]

Pierre Dracot

[D-West & PO-Z]

Artist, you're right. Finn, without a doubt.

Caudle, while I didn't care for him too much, and he had hands of stone... He had spirit and that was enough for me to accept him and thus, I didn't mind watching him play. Grant it, he certainly was not near my favorite.

Finn, on the other hand.. His attitude off the court was annoying and cocky to put it lightly. He thought he was larger than life, and while that may be good to an extent for someone playing D-1 ball, he lacked the skills and the leadership to allow for such an attitude. He put himself first over the team over and over again. He had numerous run-ins with the law, and on top of that, he wasn't at all productive on the court. After the Run, I felt he completely fizzled out and I still feel that Xavier wasn't as strong as they possibly could be because he was running the point.

Every time I start to dislike Finn I think about the two half court shots he made during the run and that bug smile and fist in the air after each and I instantly start to like him more than dislike him. I jyust have such vivid memories of those big shots.

[American X]

Did Caudle score something like 18 points to beat Dayton at UD arena? i may be confusing things, but if so that alone should remove him from the list.

'The Revolution' Iron Will Caudle did win the Blackburn-McCafferty MVP one game.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Erik Edwards --- for developing as little as any player ever to play for XU for his entire college career. (Second place --- Jon Hanley --- for not having a clue what the definitions of 'defense' and 'passing' were.)

Speaking of not developing.... Gary Lumpkin. I'm not putting him on this list, but I cant remember anyone in my time as an XU fan that just developed backwards. I mean I think he got worse every year. I think some of it has to be put on the coaches, but I dont know what else it was. Now looking at his statistics he did get better from frosh to soph yr but after that it was downhill. Does anyone else remember feeling like this about him?

[American X]

Does anyone else remember feeling like this about him?

Yes, that is why the syndrome is called Lumpkin-itis. Players, particularly guards, not developing, and actually regressing, through their four years.

I think Miller put in new water filters to eradicate it.

[muskiefan82]

Andre Smith


He killed a guy. Sentenced to ten years. Played back in 93, I believe. He was okay, but stupidity later makes him the one I am most disappointed in.

[muskienick]

I remember being at Rverfront Mausoleum for a game during Gary Lumpkin's senior year vs Purdue when he was having a particulary disappointing game. I was expressing my opinion of his poor play to whomever in our group was sitting next to me and I got the evil eye from the person in front of me who was either his sister or girlfriend.

I will say this in Gary's defense. he averaged double figures each of his four years as a Muskie and he started each of his four years at Xavier also. That's why he's not on my list and Erik Edwards is.

[ATL Muskie]

I could see how Kevin Frey would be unpopular for other teams, but I loved the kid. he was tough as nails. A bit of a showboat and a douche but that was just to get under the other teams' skin.

I'm still gonna stick with Odia. At least most of these other guys screwed up after they left Xavier, but they for the most part at least kept their mouths shut and were coachable. Odia just never seemed like he wanted to be here and that's a shame. All that hype and then nothing.

[bigdiggins]

Dave Young was trash. Got p!ssy about his PT and would just come in the game and throw up junk as soon as he touched the ball. Kicking him off the team was Matta's best move during histenure as Xavier coach.

I could never stand Obi Harris. In his first game he had like 6 blocked shots, and I'd be surprised if he blocked 2 the rest of the year. The most frustrating thing about him though was his rebounding technique. He was 6'10", but rather than trying to reach up and grab a rebound out of the air, he would wait and try to smother it against the ground. He was however unstoppale on March Madness '99 on the Playstation. I simmed an entire season, and he wound up as an all-american. Was absolutely money from 3 pt range.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Lionel Chalmers was hated by a lot of fans until The Run. I never disliked him but I remember a lot of people groaning about him in the stands. Even after the Crosstown Shootout his senior year while I was walking out of Cintas I heard some guy say "that damn Chalmers almost lost us another game!" and I am like he won us the game you idiot!

[Jumpy]

My vote: Lloyd Price, hands down. What a maroon.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Lionel Chalmers was hated by a lot of fans until The Run. I never disliked him but I remember a lot of people groaning about him in the stands. Even after the Crosstown Shootout his senior year while I was walking out of Cintas I heard some guy say "that damn Chalmers almost lost us another game!" and I am like he won us the game you idiot!

I was always very aggravated by Chalmers until the Run when he seemed unstoppable. He seemed to be so wild at times. I remember being in the stands when he took that last shot in the shootout that year, and I was screaming, "Noooooo!" but it went down and was probably one of the biggest shots in XU history.

I always used to get very aggravated by Mo McAfee too. He was always wild and out of control, and I think unfortunately Lionel learned a lot of that from him early on in his career.

[birdman71]

This thread is interesting in that it is getting answers to two different questions:
1] Who didn't turn into the player we expected? [Edwards, Odia, et al] , and
2] Who was a jerk? [Finn, etc.]
Every time I read the comments about the guys in #1, I have to wonder why there is such animosity toward guys who just might not have been as talented as we'd hoped. Perhaps the anger should be directed toward the rating services and the X recruiters, although, even they can be expected to make the occasional bad judgment.

[Mark 3 Pointer]

Dejuan Rose

1) Got suspended when the team needed him most. Would have beat Georgetown with him.

2) Got arrested for possession not to long ago

[X-man]

This thread is interesting in that it is getting answers to two different questions:
1] Who didn't turn into the player we expected? [Edwards, Odia, et al] , and
2] Who was a jerk? [Finn, etc.]
Every time I read the comments about the guys in #1, I have to wonder why there is such animosity toward guys who just might not have been as talented as we'd hoped. Perhaps the anger should be directed toward the rating services and the X recruiters, although, even they can be expected to make the occasional bad judgment.

I have problems with Odia and Williams because of their "I'm bigger than the team" attitude, not the talent level they displayed. In fact one of them, Jaison Williams, proved to be a pretty good player. Odia, on the other hand, really turned out to be a bust. I have no problems with guys who turned out to be less talented than we thought; Erik Edwards comes to mind in this regard. But Erik worked hard, as I recall, and he is certainly not a candidate for this "award" as far as I'm concerned. It's attitude, not talent level, that gets players to the top of my list.

[vee4xu]

David Young has to be my top choice. He came here and developed an attitude that eventually put him nose-to-nose with Matta. Now, that also put Young at a distinct disadvantage because he was 10 feet away from Matta. But, I digress. He put himself above the team at a very critical time of the season. Matta was right to show him the door for two reasons. First, because Young was wrong. Second, because Matta had to show that no one was above the team. Otherwise, Matta would have lost all respect. Finn was a screw-off, but I really didn't dislike him. He made some horrific choices his senior year and thereafter, but I never felt like he was atop my list of unlikable players. As for Odia, he was a pain prior to making his decsion to come to X, but was justified in being pissed afterwards. My son was in Odia's English Comp class in their freshman year and Odia was PO'd because Matta guaranteed him that he (Matta) was not taking the OSU job just a week before Odia decided to come to X. The rest as they say is history. I give Odia a free pass on his behavior. I think Gary Lumpkin and Stan Kimbrough are similar. They were both very popular players in their early years, but because both had declining skills by the time there respective senior years arrived, there popularity declined. I do not believe that either one was the most unpopular player, but both seemed like it because there respective popularity waned over a couple of year period. Lloyd Price was not so bad to me while he was at X, but he and Finn would have to be vying for the top spot for unpopular players after leaving Xavier.

[Stonebreaker]

Lloyd Price. He came in with such high expectations but only showed flashes of brilliance and never became a consistent player. I always felt he lacked the drive and determination to work hard and get better and felt like he always played thinking that he could take plays off and turn it on anytime he wanted.

Additionally, he was famous for the 359 degree dunk that looked awesome while he was going up but clanked off the back or front of the rim. How many dunks did that kid miss?

And lastly, he left after not being able to keep things together and the tried to pull off that stupid robbery in a store he went to all the time with a starters gun.

Thanks for tarnishing the Xavier image.

How could anyone forget Lloyd Price.

[PMI]

I have to play devil's advocate for Churchill Odia for a second. Actually, vee, I was in that English class freshman year too (small world) and got to know Churchill a bit. In my honest, unprofessional opinion, I think he was a genuinely good kid who was terribly misguided and being pulled in different directions by different people. It was clear that he never fully put his trust in Xavier or Miller and instead invested his trust into the wrong people, I believe. Like you said, vee, I think Odia was most definitely pissed at Matta for leaving and may have just been one more incident that added to his general confusion and distrust of people here, perhaps. He was still pretty brand new to this country and had few people to lean on it seemed. Some people, like Sato, made the transition both to America and D1 basketball beautifully, while people like Odia do not. Odia came from a powerhouse high school from where I'm from that has produced guys like Kevin Durant and Ty Lawson among others. Sometimes just being on those teams increases your stock a lot and that may have actually hurt Odia because he obviously lacked the talent that was advertised and was even more raw than I would have thought. I find it hard to put him in the unpopular category because he was a nice kid who was overhyped. He wasn't promoting himself, so I can't blame him for that.
As for Dave Young, I used to hold similar feelings of dislike toward him but I recently was told by a source who everyone on this board is familiar with and would trust fully that Young was actually a very nice kid whose attitude was very good until a certain incident that forced Matta to take action. (From what I'm told, Matta hated to make the decision to dismiss him but felt dead-ended by the fact that he would have lost the respect of his team had he not taken action.) Again, this is all speculation on my part, but the source is as trustworthy as they come.
Maybe I'm just defending these guys because I have a tough time disliking guys who wore Xavier uniforms, but neither ever got under my skin as people.

[muskienick]

Erik Edwards came in heralded by just about everybody. Sure, he was probably not as talented as the pundits thought him to be, but he had a strong basketball body, was 6'9", and could shoot well from the outside. The point is, he was much better equipped to progress from year 1 to year 4 than a lot of other guys who actually did get better and became valuable. I think of a player like Brandon Cole who came to Xavier less highly touted than Edwards, suffered severe injuries, and still managed to be a very important cog in the Muskie's season during his final year.

That's why Erik Edwards (and Jon Hanley) stick in my mind.

[gladdenguy]

I can't hate Finn because he hit 3 huge shots during the run in which I was going crazy. The 4 pt play in the Louisville game was one of my loudest screams ever. We never trailed the rest of the game. His 3 quarter court shot against MSU was awesome and his three at the buzzer at the duke game was a hope.

I would have to nominate TJ "fat" Johnson for my player I didn't like.

[vee4xu]

PMI, we are on exactly the same page on Odia. I do not put him at all in the unpopular category and would suggest that anyone putting him there should give him a free pass. Interesting about Young. I really didn't have an issue with him until the incident. But, like it or not, he will be unpopular for what happened. Because it was the Nose that gave him the boot the issue with Young is lessened. Hey, is there anyone more unpopular among the majority of XU fans than Thad Matta?

[bourbonman]

From the dark ages I would submit Nick Daniels. Head case. Decent athlete but such an attitude and a fairly big disappointment. I thought about this before submitting his name since he did have to deal with Tay, but still, he's my nominee.

[Runningman]

Kevin Frey....mainly because he got his Syracuse tattoo filled in to form one of the worst tattoos I have ever seen on a player. Sick tat bro. Almost as sick as my frat tat.

[Hair Club President]

Most UNpopular Xavier player....without a doubt.....Pickledpigsfeet......he's not on the good guy list

[Smooth]

1. Chris Mack. No explanation necessary.

2. Jerome Holmes. I met him the same time I met Dwayne Wilson and Sidney Raeford. They were great people and Holmes was that much worse by comparison. He did nothing but play pool and flunk out.

3. Odia. Get over yourself.

[pickledpigsfeet]

Most UNpopular Xavier player....without a doubt.....Pickledpigsfeet......he's not on the good guy list

What the flock is this all about? As Big Pun said, "I'm not a player, I just f*ck a lot". Just because I didn't make some chicks' "good guy list", they need to go get a spoon so they can eat my ***.

[Tardy Turtle]

go get a spoon so they can eat my ass.

Please take all ***-eating to the X Lounge.

Thank You,
- Mgmt.

[JTG]

Stanley Burrell...Way too much hype.

You are such a tool

[DAllen15]

<<I think Gary Lumpkin and Stan Kimbrough are similar. They were both very popular players in their early years, but because both had declining skills by the time there respective senior years arrived, there popularity declined. I do not believe that either one was the most unpopular player, but both seemed like it because there respective popularity waned over a couple of year period.>>

That's not really true of Kimbrough. He played in more games (33) as a senior than he did as a junior (30), scored more (18.8ppg to 15.5ppg), had more assists (4.2ppg to 3.6ppg), and while his shooting percentages declined, they only went "down" to .491 from the field and .752 from the FT line, which were both higher than his percentages his first year at X.

His 3-pt. FG% was basically the same his senior and junior years (.419 v. .417), both of which were higher than his first year (.398).

Plus, Stan averaged 14.5ppg in his 4 NCAA tourney games.

Now, Lumpkin's another matter. His senior year scoring average (11.1) was his lowest of his 4 years at X. His FG% went from .453 as a soph to .394 as a senior.

His 3-pt. shooting went from .402 as a soph to . 299 as a senior. He averaged 4.5apg as a junior but only 3.4 as a senior.

[D-West & PO-Z]

<<I think Gary Lumpkin and Stan Kimbrough are similar. They were both very popular players in their early years, but because both had declining skills by the time there respective senior years arrived, there popularity declined. I do not believe that either one was the most unpopular player, but both seemed like it because there respective popularity waned over a couple of year period.>>

That's not really true of Kimbrough. He played in more games (33) as a senior than he did as a junior (30), scored more (18.8ppg to 15.5ppg), had more assists (4.2ppg to 3.6ppg), and while his shooting percentages declined, they only went "down" to .491 from the field and .752 from the FT line, which were both higher than his percentages his first year at X.

His 3-pt. FG% was basically the same his senior and junior years (.419 v. .417), both of which were higher than his first year (.398).

Plus, Stan averaged 14.5ppg in his 4 NCAA tourney games.

Now, Lumpkin's another matter. His senior year scoring average (11.1) was his lowest of his 4 years at X. His FG% went from .453 as a soph to .394 as a senior.

His 3-pt. shooting went from .402 as a soph to . 299 as a senior. He averaged 4.5apg as a junior but only 3.4 as a senior.

Plus Kimbrough played in the NBA and won a championship with Detroit. His skills couldnt have been declining that much.

[Fred Garvin]

Not your board. Shut the hell up.
Snipe and Stan at the banquet:

Snipe: thank you, Stan.
Stan:Thank you.
Snipe:No Stan, thank you sweetheart.
Stan:Thank you.
Snipe: No, thank you Hammer.

We get it.

[Masterofreality]

With props to him for his steal against UC that sealed a game,

Lloyd Price. Always had an attitude. Somewhat lazy. Was always looking to leave school early, but didn't have the game. Didn't give a crap about academics.

His 359 degree slams off the rim were classic, though.

[muskiefan82]

I know Stan played in 89-90 with the Pistons for about 10 games, but did he get a ring for that?

[D-West & PO-Z]

I know Stan played in 89-90 with the Pistons for about 10 games, but did he get a ring for that?

Yes he did. He was my brother's AAU basketball coach a couple years ago and I am 99% sure he won a ring with Detroit. I will double check though. My brother still talks to Stan every once in a while.

[muskiefan82]

Yes he did. He was my brother's AAU basketball coach a couple years ago and I am 99% sure he won a ring with Detroit. I will double check though. My brother still talks to Stan every once in a while.

Just talked to Stan's old lady and she said that he did not receive a ring. Apparently, he had the option and chose not to receive one. I know, I know....why would he do that?!?!? To that, I have no answer, but he does not have a ring.

[DAllen15]

http://www.nba.com/historical/playerfile/index.html?player=stan_kimbrough

If you click on the "playoff stats" box, you'll see that Stan doesn't have any, so it's possible (likely?) he wasn't on the Pistons' playoff roster. I have to assume he'd get a ring anyway, but I could be wrong.

This article doesn't show Stan as being on that team, so it's possible he was cut before the end of the season. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nba/02playoffs/2002-04-26-cover-dumars.htm

As a matter of fact, Stan appeared in only 10 games for the Pistons, ALL in November & December. http://paspn.net/default.asp?p=91&phaction=3&playerId=247

The Pistons signed guard Gerald Henderson in December 1989, leading to the conclusion that is was "Kimbrough-out, Henderson-in" for the rest of the season. So, Stan might NOT have been eligible to get a championship ring. http://paspn.net/default.asp?p=91&phaction=2&seasonId=33

[D-West & PO-Z]

Just talked to Stan's old lady and she said that he did not receive a ring. Apparently, he had the option and chose not to receive one. I know, I know....why would he do that?!?!? To that, I have no answer, but he does not have a ring.

Ya, you are right. I checked with my brother after I posted that and he told me that Stan didnt have one. I forgot to ever post that on here. Thanks for posting that. I'm not sure why I thought he had one.

[Kahns Krazy]

Dwight Hollins. He's the clown that climbed up on the rim in the fieldhouse after the Muskies clinched the 1981 MCC championship. It's a team Dwight.

[DAllen15]

Have to disagree, KK. That was a great moment, a great photo, and Hollins was a pretty solid player. He and David Anderson were underrated front-court players for Staak's first teams.