Question for Reds fans

[DC Muskie]

When will the Reds promote Jay Bruce? He is doing really well in Triple A.

Thanks.

[BlueGuy]

I'd say they were getting very close to doing just that. Then Corey Patterson decided to start hitting the ball. Patterson's recent success will only last a little bit. The Reds will continue to lose though, in the longrun. Give it a couple more weeks, and Jockety will blow this thing up.

I'm sure they will move Jr if given the chance as well. They aren't even promoting the whole 600 HR thing. Kinda strange, considering how they made such a big deal out of 500. It tells me they are looking to trade him ASAP, regardless of him reaching 600 as a Red.

[DC Muskie]

Thanks BlueGuy.

[jdm2000]

It's all based on the years of service/arbitration stuff. They will let him stay down there as long as necessary (I think it's until sometime in June or July) so that his appearance this year in the majors doesn't count towards arbitration or free agency years.

[dc_x]

It tells me they are looking to trade him ASAP, regardless of him reaching 600 as a Red.

Who would trade for Griffey?

He has a club option for $16.5m next year and the ability to veto any trade. Griffey will force any team to pick up the option for next year or else he will block the trade.

Griffey would go play in Seattle, but they stink this year. So why not just wait until he enters free agency this offseason and sign him for 1/4th the price?

[XUOHTX]

Yes the arbitration thing is why they haven't brought him up. There is a specific date in June that they are wating for (I can't remember what it is) but I gaurantee they bring him up right after that day.

[Jumpy]

It's all based on the years of service/arbitration stuff. They will let him stay down there as long as necessary (I think it's until sometime in June or July) so that his appearance this year in the majors doesn't count towards arbitration or free agency years.

Sadly, it almost certainly is about arbitration and starting the clock. I can't remember the exact amount needed, but I'm pretty sure that it is based on number of at bats in a season and it is a really small number.

We expect to see one of two things happen this year. 1) they keep this roster, muddle through the season (or even get better) and pick up the option on Jr. for next year, trying to win now and delaying the call up of younger guys. This option isn't very likely as I believe even mgmt. knows this roster can't win consistently.

2) They trade Jr. for whatever they can get from Seattle and trade Dunn away as well. Call up all promising young guys (Bruce, Bailey, Philips, Majewski) at the trade deadline and get them experience playing together in hopes that they will be ready to compete in either '09 or '10.

With Dusty and Jockety, though, I wouldn't expect to see Bruce any time soon.

[Smails]

Look for high draft pick Paul Yannish to be called up after Keppinger busted his knee cap last night....

[Jumpy]

Yes the arbitration thing is why they haven't brought him up. There is a specific date in June that they are wating for (I can't remember what it is) but I gaurantee they bring him up right after that day.

Is it a specific date? I can't remember. I might be confiusing it with Rookie of the Year requirements.

[Billy]

I'd say they were getting very close to doing just that. Then Corey Patterson decided to start hitting the ball. Patterson's recent success will only last a little bit. The Reds will continue to lose though, in the longrun. Give it a couple more weeks, and Jockety will blow this thing up.

I'm sure they will move Jr if given the chance as well. They aren't even promoting the whole 600 HR thing. Kinda strange, considering how they made such a big deal out of 500. It tells me they are looking to trade him ASAP, regardless of him reaching 600 as a Red.

Not to mention, they need a shortstop, ASAP. Surely Griffey or Dunn could fetch them a serviceable SS. The Cubs will trade Ronny Cedeno, Matt Murton, and other assorted garbage for Junior.

Interested?

[Billy]

Look for high draft pick Paul Yannish to be called up after Keppinger busted his knee cap last night....

Please. Hairston is one of Dusty's boys.

So sit back, and prepared to be wowed by his .600 OPS for the foreseeable future.

[XU 87]

For what it's worth, John Erardi wrote in the Sunday paper that the Reds want Bruce to work on getting more walks and increasing his OBP before they bring him up. If you look at his stats, his OBP isn't that great.

Junior is probably going to get traded, most likely to Seattle. My guess is that it happens shortly after he gets his 600th home run.

[Jumpy]

Please. Hairston is one of Dusty's boys.

So sit back, and prepared to be wowed by his .600 OPS for the foreseeable future.


Janish just got called up today for a cup of coffee, but I tend to share the belief that Hairston will see much more time than he will.

[Juice]

Bruce is hitting the crap out of the ball right now but his OBP is not high enough over his average. He also strikes out a little too much but he wont be brought up until Griffey or Dunn is traded. He needs to play everyday and until there is a guaranteed opening in the field, I do not htink he will be up here. He is the one good thing to look forward to for the rest of the season.

[XU 87]

When I read the Erardi article on Sunday, I thought he was hitting a little over .300 with an OBP of around .340. But I just checked his stats at the Louisville website and he's hitting .366 with an OBP of .398. Maybe he's had a huge week.

He could walk a little more but those are pretty impressive stats. I say hurry up and trade Griffey and get him up here.

[XU 87]

Maybe he's had a huge week.



In Bruce's last 10 games, he's batting .611.

[Fred Garvin]

Looks like 87 sure showed 87 a thing or two about Jay Bruce.

[Raoul Duke]

Looks like 87 sure showed 87 a thing or two about Jay Bruce.

He forgot to log out then log back in as Eastside J.

[GoMuskies]

The Cubs will trade Ronny Cedeno, Matt Murton, and other assorted garbage for Junior.

Interested?


I would trade Junior for a bucket of curveballs if the Cubs picked up the salary.

[BlueGuy]

Corey Patterson is suddenly making plays left and right.

[Kahns Krazy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smails
Look for high draft pick Paul Yannish to be called up after Keppinger busted his knee cap last night....
Please. Hairston is one of Dusty's boys.

So sit back, and prepared to be wowed by his .600 OPS for the foreseeable future.

I like when Billy is game-winning-hit-wrong.

[Billy]

I like when Billy is game-winning-hit-wrong.

Hairston started, didn't he?

[Kahns Krazy]

So you're saying that you define "forseeable future" as 7 innings?

Some guys will go to unbelievable lengths to avoid being wrong.

I found a picture of billy on his blog "collarpoppas.com"
http://jesusthejew.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/douche8.jpg

[wkrq59]

) They trade Jr. for whatever they can get from Seattle and trade Dunn away as well. Call up all promising young guys (Bruce, Bailey, Philips, Majewski) at the trade deadline and get them experience playing together in hopes that they will be ready to compete in either '09 or '10.<

Well, let's see now. The win streak is at 3 over the best team in the NL East and one of the best in baseball. They blew a 6-run led in one ninth inning, then won the ball game when a kid fresh from Louisville who's a great glove and a "judy hitter" slaps one just by the first baseman down the line for a single to plate the winning run in 10. What's not to like?
Let's face it, to hear the "experts" --the same experts who were firing Sean Miller in 2004-05--Griffey should never have been brought here. Never should have been PAID ALL THAT MONEY--, never was surrounded with the players he was promised would help the team win, WASN'T WORTH ALL THAT MONEY, was lazy from the outset, didn't run out ground outs when he was hurt, came back to soon after he was hurt, didn't workout in the off season (as if anyone knew) lived in Florida in the wintertime instead of suffering with us here, looks fat, lost too much weight, is a step slow and can't get to deep hit fly balls (see him rob that guy of a home run) or sprint to catch flares, or drops fly balls that give up runs or makes lucky catches with his bare hand after he drops one, almost and MAKES ALL THAT MONEY.
The kid is no longer a kid. He never had the fiery leadership of Joe Morgan, he never hid the mongoose in his locker ala Tony Perez, couldn't lead like Bench or Rose (are we still allowed to mention the name of the man who had more hits than anyone in baseball EVER??) But Griffey Jr. still is the youngest member of the Team of the Century, a certain Hall of Fame member, and every damned one of those 597 home runs was hit by a man who was free of any kind of performance enhancing drugs.
BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE, HE STILL MAKES ALL THAT MONEY AND WE CAN'T TRADE HIM.
He must have done something wrong. Oh, yeah, he leads by example. He's a positive influence in the cluhouse. He allegedly doesn't get along with "THE MEDIA" or is it that he won't write their stories for them or suffer their stupid questions or suffer fools. But hey, didn't he once refuse to sign an autograph? Oh, wait, he was on crutches and the guy asking for the autograph "for my kid" had no pen and it was raining. Even his own ball club doesn't hype the 600 home run plateau. But you gotta say one thing for Mark McGwire. He broke Roger Maris record and helped Bud Selig (bend the knee) save baseball. Now where's my bottle of Androstinedrone?
:D:p

[Jumpy]

) They trade Jr. for whatever they can get from Seattle and trade Dunn away as well. Call up all promising young guys (Bruce, Bailey, Philips, Majewski) at the trade deadline and get them experience playing together in hopes that they will be ready to compete in either '09 or '10.<

Well, let's see now. The win streak is at 3 over the best team in the NL East and one of the best in baseball. They blew a 6-run led in one ninth inning, then won the ball game when a kid fresh from Louisville who's a great glove and a "judy hitter" slaps one just by the first baseman down the line for a single to plate the winning run in 10. What's not to like?
Let's face it, to hear the "experts" --the same experts who were firing Sean Miller in 2004-05--Griffey should never have been brought here. Never should have been PAID ALL THAT MONEY--, never was surrounded with the players he was promised would help the team win, WASN'T WORTH ALL THAT MONEY, was lazy from the outset, didn't run out ground outs when he was hurt, came back to soon after he was hurt, didn't workout in the off season (as if anyone knew) lived in Florida in the wintertime instead of suffering with us here, looks fat, lost too much weight, is a step slow and can't get to deep hit fly balls (see him rob that guy of a home run) or sprint to catch flares, or drops fly balls that give up runs or makes lucky catches with his bare hand after he drops one, almost and MAKES ALL THAT MONEY.
The kid is no longer a kid. He never had the fiery leadership of Joe Morgan, he never hid the mongoose in his locker ala Tony Perez, couldn't lead like Bench or Rose (are we still allowed to mention the name of the man who had more hits than anyone in baseball EVER??) But Griffey Jr. still is the youngest member of the Team of the Century, a certain Hall of Fame member, and every damned one of those 597 home runs was hit by a man who was free of any kind of performance enhancing drugs.
BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE, HE STILL MAKES ALL THAT MONEY AND WE CAN'T TRADE HIM.
He must have done something wrong. Oh, yeah, he leads by example. He's a positive influence in the cluhouse. He allegedly doesn't get along with "THE MEDIA" or is it that he won't write their stories for them or suffer their stupid questions or suffer fools. But hey, didn't he once refuse to sign an autograph? Oh, wait, he was on crutches and the guy asking for the autograph "for my kid" had no pen and it was raining. Even his own ball club doesn't hype the 600 home run plateau. But you gotta say one thing for Mark McGwire. He broke Roger Maris record and helped Bud Selig (bend the knee) save baseball. Now where's my bottle of Androstinedrone?
:D:p


Q, I can't tell if you're attacking my post, or just using it to tie your rant into the thread.

If you are, I just want you to understand that that no one is a bigger fan of Jr. than me. I have always loved the guy as a player, but it is undeniable that his hefty salary far outweighs his ability. At this point in his career, the Reds will be lucky if they can find a team to simply take on the full brunt of his salary, let alone get any players for him. The team most likely to do that is Seattle, so I say "goodbye Jr., thank you for your time, I wish things would have turned out differently."

I hate using this term, but trading Jr. and Dunn is addition by subtraction. Nearly $30 million that we could better use simply by getting them out of town.

[wkrq59]

Just ranting. Can't stand the way some (not you) have wanted to get rid of him since he came here. It goes far beyond the money and is fueled by the local media. Just once I'd like to see someone of his character and ability--I think he still has a lot of it--be recognized for his true talents.
And if he is traded, and Dunn too, who's to say that the money they save will be used wisely and the talent that they buy will turn out to be any good..Do de name Milton strike a familiar rins, Andy?:D

[Jumpy]

Just ranting. Can't stand the way some (not you) have wanted to get rid of him since he came here. It goes far beyond the money and is fueled by the local media. Just once I'd like to see someone of his character and ability--I think he still has a lot of it--be recognized for his true talents.
And if he is traded, and Dunn too, who's to say that the money they save will be used wisely and the talent that they buy will turn out to be any good..Do de name Milton strike a familiar rins, Andy?:D


that is true about the money. We don't know that they would even turn around and reinvest it in the team, as sad as it is to say. With that said, though, I have more confidence in this group of ownership/management than that of a few years ago.

As far as Jr. is concerned, I totally agree. the guy is a class act. He does so much charity work that goes unspoken because he wants it that way. He isn't looking for the press accolades, he does it because he cares. Instead, he largely gets railed by the press because he is a quite person, coming off as cold and uncaring person towards them.

[XU 87]

Griffey may be the greatest guy in the world. I really don't know. But what I do know is that in his 9 years with the Reds, the Reds have had one winning season. Is he responsible for that? Not entirely. But since he's been the one constant on this team, he does share in the blame. But you can't fault the guy for all the injuries, unless they were caused due to lack of conditioning, of which I have no knowledge or opinon.

But it's pretty clear that trading for him has been a disaster. The Reds couldn't afford him to begin with, particularly giving him a nine year contract. So the Reds have been stuck with an expensive, injury prone player for nine years that they can't afford. And we've seen the results- a lot of losing seasons.

And here's a trivia question: who has more RBI's since the trade, Griffey or Mike Cameron?

As for his leadership abilities, or lack thereof, I for one find it odd that the oldest player on the team who is also a hall of fame player, is not a leader in the locker room. He needed to step up and lead, and I don't think he ever has. Leading by example? Last year he was criticized by Marty or Tom four separate times during a two week period for lack of hustle on 4 different plays in 4 different games. Two were for not running out long fly balls that he thought were home runs and instead went off the wall (he got singles on both). One was for not running out a bloop double (which he turned into a single). And another was for not hustling to catch a bloop single in right field in the ninth inning (Marty commented that David Weathers gave a long stare into right field after being taken out of the game).

[Jumpy]

Griffey may be the greatest guy in the world. I really don't know. But what I do know is that in his 9 years with the Reds, the Reds have had one winning season. Is he responsible for that? Not entirely. But since he's been the one constant on this team, he does share in the blame. But you can't fault the guy for all the injuries, unless they were caused due to lack of conditioning, of which I have no knowledge or opinon.

But it's pretty clear that trading for him has been a disaster. The Reds couldn't afford him to begin with, particularly giving him a nine year contract. So the Reds have been stuck with an expensive, injury prone player for nine years that they can't afford. And we've seen the results- a lot of losing seasons.

And here's a trivia question: who has more RBI's since the trade, Griffey or Mike Cameron?

As for his leadership abilities, or lack thereof, I for one find it odd that the oldest player on the team who is also a hall of fame player, is not a leader in the locker room. He needed to step up and lead, and I don't think he ever has. Leading by example? Last year he was criticized by Marty or Tom four separate times during a two week period for lack of hustle on 4 different plays in 4 different games. Two were for not running out long fly balls that he thought were home runs and instead went off the wall (he got singles on both). One was for not running out a bloop double (which he turned into a single). And another was for not hustling to catch a bloop single in right field in the ninth inning (Marty commented that David Weathers gave a long stare into right field after being taken out of the game).

the trade itself wasn't a disaster, but the result was. You are right, Uncle Carl put too many of his eggs in one basket. At the time of the trade and contract extension, it was widely assumed that it signaled Lindner's devotion to building a winner in Cincy. In reality, he saw Jr. as a cash cow.

Does Jr. hustle every AB/play? No, but show me a player of his stature that does. I'm not saying it's right, just that it's a normal occurrence in baseball.

In the end, nine losing seasons are not Jr.'s fault, but Lindner's. He wasn't a passionate owner committed to building a winning team. Rather, he was a business man looking to build a successful franchise as cheap as possible. His idea was to have Jr. be the showhorse that everyone came to see rather than build a competetive team that the fans enjoyed watching.

[XU 87]

I don't disagree with you about Lindner. He was an absentee owner who didn't have a commitment to winning.