Which one will be traded first?

[XUOHTX]

Ken Griffey Jr or Adam Dunn

[gladdenguy]

Hopefully both tomorrow

[Juice]

I am saying Griffey because of the possible teams willing to take him, besides that, he is more versatile in the outfield. The Mariners seem to be interested considering their DH is Jose friggin Vidro, which is an embarassment to any AL team. If the AL is going to cheat and use DHs they might as well get good ones. Griffey would most likely not veto that trade. Griffey also can play more outfield positions because obviously he does a prety good job in right and I think he could play center in a pinch.
I think some teams are scared of Dunn's lack of bat speed this year and the fact that he can only play left or DH.
Personally I would like to see the Reds get rid of one of them so that the Jay Bruce era can begin. He needs to be brought up so he can get experience, whether it goes good or bad. Look at the Dbacks or Rockies or Tigers. These are all teams who played young guys and did not care about the results, but just about the players getting big league experience.

[Raoul Duke]

Hopefully both tomorrow

Beat me to it.

[Kahns Krazy]

I hope Chad.

[Xman95]

The Mariners seem to be interested considering their DH is Jose friggin Vidro, which is an embarassment to any AL team.

I'm guessing the M's will be in a holding pattern until they find out whether Jeff Clement can be their DH (as well as back-up C/1B). Many have considered him the top catching prospect in the minors, at least with the bat, and he was just called up after hitting around .330 with 5 HR in AAA. He also looked good in a late call-up last year.

They just signed Johjima to a 3-year extension so Clement wasn't called up to be the catcher, now or in the future. At 24, I'm sure they plan to showcase him for trade purposes or to find out if he can be a constant in the line-up.

If they did make a deal with the Reds for Griffey, I'm guessing it's because Clement didn't hit. However, if a deal is made between the M's and the Reds with Clement involved, it probably means Dunn is heading to the NW.

At least that's my thinking.

[Juice]

I'm guessing the M's will be in a holding pattern until they find out whether Jeff Clement can be their DH (as well as back-up C/1B). Many have considered him the top catching prospect in the minors, at least with the bat, and he was just called up after hitting around .330 with 5 HR in AAA. He also looked good in a late call-up last year.

They just signed Johjima to a 3-year extension so Clement wasn't called up to be the catcher, now or in the future. At 24, I'm sure they plan to showcase him for trade purposes or to find out if he can be a constant in the line-up.

If they did make a deal with the Reds for Griffey, I'm guessing it's because Clement didn't hit. However, if a deal is made between the M's and the Reds with Clement involved, it probably means Dunn is heading to the NW.

At least that's my thinking.

Obviously the Reds need a young catcher, but everything I read is that the Mariners are completely against trading Clement. This is what I have read so in reality I have no idea what the Mariners would be willing to do at all. But if the trade was a Griffey for Clement deal straight up, I actually would be pretty happy.

[MHettel]

Take it from a guy in Seattle.

There is no chance the Ms are trading Clement.

They have a long history of trying to avoid trading top line minor league talent. They finally did it this last offseason by trading Adam Jones (Eric Davis potential) to get Eric Bedard. This was a gut wrenching decision for the organization. They won't be doing this again anytime soon.

Most teams would never consider trading a young power hitting catcher for anything less than an established pitching ace. No CHANCE they give up Clement for Adam Dunn or Griffey.

Now, aside from Clement being part of a deal, I would think Seattle would have a real interest in Griffey, but there doesn't appear to be room right now.

Clement will split time between DH and catcher, and possibly mix in some 1B work. The M's just called up Wladamir Balentine, who's also in his early 20's and has been hammering the baseball for the past couple years in the minors. They released Brad Wilkerson (who they JUST signed this last offseason) to make room. This is his position.

IF Balentine doesn't work out, they they could be in the market for Griffey.

OR

IF Richie Sexson or Kenji Johjima get injured, AND Jose Vidro continues to suck, then the M's move Clement into the open position, cut Vidro, and possibly consider Griffey as the DH.

I'd love to see Griffey back here. You guys have no idea how good this dude was.

[xu95]

I think Dunn is as good as gone. The Reds will probably hold on to Griffey until later in the year. He would be perfect in the American League where he won't have to play in the field anymore.

xu95

[nuts4xu]

Dunn can't be traded to anyone until after June 15th. And after that, I think there are only a few teams he has approved for the Reds to talk to.

Griffey can also veto a trade, but if it is a contender I think he will waive the clause. There is a mutual option for next season at $16.5 million, and there is NO WAY the Reds will pick that option up at his age. If they continue to play as poorly as they have in April, deals will be made. I just don't think the market will be very good for either player.

Griffey will be traded for sure. I see no way the Reds bring him back, even for a discount. And Griffey won't give a discount to a team that is still years away from contending like the Reds.

Dunn, now he is a different story. I think Castellini likes him, he is going to be difficult to trade due to his current contract stipulations, and I think they work out a 3 year deal to keep him around. He is still a young power hitter, and if they can get him at a reasonable price (like mid teens), I think he will be signed.

[MHettel]

Interesting what you guys believe about Dunn.

It sounds like many of you beleive that the Reds suck IN SPITE of Dunn, when in reality, the Reds suck BECAUSE of Dunn.

Aside from the power, what does he do at a Major league level? He's a career .250 hitter. Thats horrible given his power. A guy with that power should command respect from pitchers. But he strikes out too much (over 1100 times in 3400 ABs (32%)).

he draws alot of walks, giving him a decent OBP (career .381), but that aint the whole story.

When he doesn't strikeout or walk, he hits .523. His slugging percentage is 1.300% when he puts the ball in play.

BUT. he can make contact. He swings through everything. It he had command of the strike zone, he'd be barry Bonds. But he doesn't, and he's Dave Kingman instead.

Also, the 13M salary, lead feet, and poor outfilield play doesn't help either.

You don't see alot of winning teams built around guys like this for a reason

[GoMuskies]

I wish Griffey would hurry up and hit #600 so he can get out of town. Next Tuesday night would be an okay time since I'll be there!

[wkrq59]

This is not a popular opinion but I don't think the reds should trade either. Callers to sports talk shows say the Reds should demand other teams give them star pitchers or position players for Dunn and Griffey. The whole thing to me is so much BS.
Frankly, I wish Griffey had never come back here. This town with its build-you-up to tear you down (white or black) is no place for talented pros. And don't tell me other towns are the same. They aren't.
Had he not been injured, Griffey would have set a number of records long ago. But this town is unmerciful when it comes to its stars. And don't give me the crap that the ticket buyer has his rights. Keep your damn money if you can't be a rational fan.
I'd rather have nine Griffeys starting for my team than one Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Jason Giambi(who at least owned up and apologized) Raphael Palmero and all the rest of the damn juicers and their patron self-proclaimed baseball saint Bud "Mr. Conflict of Interest" Selig.
I'm neither stupid nor too old to see the reasons behind the tendencies of this town to defame stars--See Herm Whemeier, Boomer Esiason, Ken Griffey Jr., Adam Dunn, and countless others over the years.
I've often wondered given the departure of Dunn and Griffey for major pitching talent WHICH WON'T HAPPEN what happens to the team that's left. And why the hell would I want to pay to see the crap that would be left. At least with Junior, I can watch a player who is in the twilight of a Hall of Fame career try to eclipse records. At least I can watch Dunn bring the potential of walk-off homers to ninth-inning at bats.
Let's face some simple facts. The Reds are going nowhere with a third baseman whose errors eclipse his sporadic batting average and clutch hits; with a center fielder whose a retread or a one-time utility player there in place of a promising rookie languishing in Louisville; or a shortstop--do the reds even have one?--or a first baseman by committee or a second baseman severely underrated and finally, a stellar pitching staff with Kent Merker, David Weathers, formerly Todd Coffey and Matt Belisle who can't get anybody out. The starting pitching is too damned inconsistent to even mention.
But getting rid of Dunn and Griffey will solve everything when the Reds can DEMAND other teams surrender Cy Young candidates for those two.
But really, what do I care? I vowed years ago to never set foot in a MLB park or pay one dime for a ticket or anything connected with the game until Pete Rose is admitted to the Baseball Hall of Fame. But that's another topic for another time.:p

[Juice]

Q, I see your point about ridiculous callers asking for pitching aces for either of these guys. I once heard a guy call 700 and say that we should trade literally 9 players off of our roster (none of which were top players on our team) for Carlos Zambrano. Not only was the money out of wack, the fact that the Reds would then have to play the season with about 14 guys was hilarious.
That being said, the Reds should simply demand good prospects. The youth movement needs to start with this team. Dunn and Griffey being gone will help the payroll and the roster. If the Reds even get mediocre propects then it would still be an addition by subtraction. Overall, they both need to go by the end of the year.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Interesting what you guys believe about Dunn.

It sounds like many of you beleive that the Reds suck IN SPITE of Dunn, when in reality, the Reds suck BECAUSE of Dunn.

Aside from the power, what does he do at a Major league level? He's a career .250 hitter. Thats horrible given his power. A guy with that power should command respect from pitchers. But he strikes out too much (over 1100 times in 3400 ABs (32%)).

he draws alot of walks, giving him a decent OBP (career .381), but that aint the whole story.

When he doesn't strikeout or walk, he hits .523. His slugging percentage is 1.300% when he puts the ball in play.

BUT. he can make contact. He swings through everything. It he had command of the strike zone, he'd be barry Bonds. But he doesn't, and he's Dave Kingman instead.

Also, the 13M salary, lead feet, and poor outfilield play doesn't help either.

You don't see alot of winning teams built around guys like this for a reason


http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/images/2617_02.gif

This graph shows that strikeouts are largely irrelevant. An out is an out, and Adam Dunn makes less outs than most players in the game. If you have Adam Dunn change his swing philosophy to make contact, his power numbers and walks go down. He won't be as good. It's just that simple.

And saying Adam Dunn doesn't have command of the strike zone is absurd. You don't walk that much without knowing a thing or two about the zone.

Adam Dunn is a very productive player, and is priced about right in the $15 mil range. That's the market. He is not the problem...he is not A problem.

The Reds biggest problem is terrible roster construction. 3 catchers...none of which are any good at the plate (give Bako time, he'll fall back to his mean) and three CFs that can't hit. That's nearly a 4th of your roster (and over half your bench) that can't hit. Guess what? Those CFs generally bat leadoff...meaning they'll get more ABs than anyone on the team over time. Winning teams aren't constructed that way.

Lineup construction is a problem, too. Griffey is not a #3 hitter anymore. He's a #5 hitter. Edwin is a #3 hitter. Votto is being wasted down at 7...he should be up at #2. Country Kepp should be leading off. Dunn should be batting cleanup.

Kepp
Votto
Edwin
Dunn
Griffey
Phillips
Patterson/Freel/Hopper
Bako/Ross/Valentin
Pitcher

To Q, Edwin Encarnacion is OPSing around .900 so far this season, and his errors are overrated. He makes as many great plays as he does boners, and the rest of the time he's playing solid defense with great range. It's easy to look good defensively when you can only get to balls hit right at you (the Juan Castro "Manos de Oro" plan) Overall he's a slightly above average defensive 3B and the most consistent RH bat you have.

Never let facts get in the way of a good rant...I suppose.

[vee4xu]

MH, I watched Clement play the past two nights against the Indians. He is a really good, young catcher. No reason why the M's would/should trade him just to get Griffey back.

[GoMuskies]

Wow, I really don't think I've ever agreed with anything Q has written. Pete Rose?!? Really?!? That guy's a total POS. Why anyone would condition their fanhood for a sport on its willingness to embrace a lying felon like Rose is beyond me. It's like not going to an NFL game until Mike Vick is reinstated.

And Griffey has been loved the whole time he's been in Cincy. Go to the park sometime (I see that you won't) and look at all the kids in Griffey jerseys, and wait until he's announced to hit. He still gets the loudest cheers, even though he's been a shell of himself on the field for quite some time.

[gladdenguy]

Hettel,
Nice to see you posting again. Seems like I haven't seen you in awhile.
Anyhow, I like your comment about how good Griffey was in Seattle.
I do wish we got an up close and personal viewing of the COMPLETE player Grif was in the 90s. That is why it just crushes me to think of his career in Cincinnati.
I would love if they traded him to Seattle tomorrow and he hit his 600th bomb in a Mariner uniform. The fans of Seattle as well as Griffey deserve that.
As far as Dunn goes, he will be the worst player to ever hit 500 homeruns. I'm not saying the Reds suck because of Dunn, because it is much deeper than that, but he does not command respect from any pitcher or manager in the NL.
It is truly sad. I can't stand him.
Get younger as quick as possible.

[wkrq59]

Go Muskies---As I said, for another time.:D