Xpectations: you were right about Lyons

[Eastside_J]

http://cincinnati.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?ra_key=1617

Lyons moved up to 103. Just 3 or 4 shy of a 4 Star.



And I was right about Gates:
UC - 2 4 stars (Gates will take a major move up - could move into 5 star territory)

He moved up around 60 points to being a 5 STAR, #22 in the country.

[boozehound]

Gates is good, no question, but Beasley was an absolute stud too. How did K-State's season turn out, anyways? One 5-star recruit, with effort and attitude problems to boot, does not a sweet 16 team make. Xavier is bringing in Lyons, Holloway, Frease, Redford and Walsh. Jamel MClean will also be eligible. I don't really see this as UC out-recruiting Xavier, which I believe was your point on your other posts.

[XU 87]

Does Rivals mention anything about how lazy Gates is?

[bearcat65]

Gates is good, no question, but Beasley was an absolute stud too. How did K-State's season turn out, anyways? One 5-star recruit, with effort and attitude problems to boot, does not a sweet 16 team make. Xavier is bringing in Lyons, Holloway, Frease, Redford and Walsh. Jamel MClean will also be eligible. I don't really see this as UC out-recruiting Xavier, which I believe was your point on your other posts.

Cash Wright is also there at 4 star #82. Add in last years class and former 5 star all american Mike Williams and it's pretty good. Much better than left over JUCO's like year before last.

Both programs are recruiting well.

[boozehound]

Cash Wright is also there at 4 star #82. Add in last years class and former 5 star all american Mike Williams and it's pretty good. Much better than left over JUCO's like year before last.

Both programs are recruiting well.

That is something I can agree on. UC is finally getting some good recruits. That Mike Williams kid seems like a pretty nice guy. Hopefully he stays healthy. The crosstown shootout should be returned to it's former glory soon.

[GoMuskies]

The crosstown shootout should be returned to it's former glory soon.


And when it is, and when UC has a coach and program it can be proud of, Nancy Zimpher will be completely vindicated.

Won't keep UC fans from hating her.

[bearcat65]

And when it is, and when UC has a coach and program it can be proud of, Nancy Zimpher will be completely vindicated.

Won't keep UC fans from hating her.

Your right. Some will continue to hate her regardless. Of course if Huggs wears the mustard suit to the Shoe next year it should ease the pain. ;)

[DC Muskie]

Nice recruiting class Mick is putting together over there in Clifton. Pretty good one on Victory Parkway as well.

[Eastside_J]

Does Rivals mention anything about how lazy Gates is?


Take a look and you might find that a point to that effect was actually addressed.

[XU 87]

I'm not sure what article you're talking about. But I have heard a rumor that UC may have another guy that they may be signing in the near future. And the guy is allegedly pretty good. But it's so top secret that I can't get a name. Is it Bud Mackey?

[Juice]

The Bud Mackey signing would be too good to be true.

[bearcat65]

I'm not sure what article you're talking about. But I have heard a rumor that UC may have another guy that they may be signing in the near future. And the guy is allegedly pretty good. But it's so top secret that I can't get a name. Is it Bud Mackey?


Mackey's name has been circulated but there are a lot of rumors on Kentucky boards that he will walk on there depending on how his legal issues turn out.

[Eastside_J]

I'm not sure what article you're talking about. But I have heard a rumor that UC may have another guy that they may be signing in the near future. And the guy is allegedly pretty good. But it's so top secret that I can't get a name. Is it Bud Mackey?

It is not Mackey.

Beyond that you are not going to get a name. I know what is going on and when, but I don't have a name associated with the whole thing yet.

[XU 87]

I know what is going on and when, but I don't have a name associated with the whole thing yet.

So you know everything but you know nothing. What do they call that- a contradiction in terms?

[Eastside_J]

Mackey's name has been circulated but there are a lot of rumors on Kentucky boards that he will walk on there depending on how his legal issues turn out.

Kentucky could fill a dozen rosters with the the number of players that have been rumored to be walking on.

That would entail Mackey qualifying and being eligible. If Mackey were a qualifier, he would have dozens of schools offering him a full ride. Kentucky fans are so arrogant and clueless that they believe a kid like Mackey would be so interested in "Youu Kayyyye" that he would pay to go there and walk on passing up scholarships at other big time schools to come there. Riiiight.

[Billy]

-----------

[Eastside_J]

So you know everything but you know nothing. What do they call that- a contradiction in terms?

I know what and I know when, but I don't know who. Pretty sure that isn't a claim to know everything. Tough to figure how that is difficult for you to wrap your brain around.

[XU 87]

I know what and I know when, but I don't know who.

It appears that you know so much but yet you know so little.

[xeus]

It appears that you know so much but yet you know so little.

Eastside J is the Socrates of UC hoops.

[Get Real]

Well, well, well. This makes for great entertainment. 3 lawyers arguing amongst themselves. I guess you need to clarify what "is" is.

[waggy]

We need to endeavor to a little higher level of discourse. The snarkiness is played out, on both sides frankly. Maybe the history precludes finding some common ground. And if that's the case, then we should just recognize it for what it is and move on.

[xeus]

It's the offseason waggy. And Eastside and 87 just bicker because it's the only way they know how to show their affection for each other.

[GoMuskies]

We need to endeavor to a little higher level of discourse.

Or a higher percentage of posters with Eastie on ignore.

[Get Real]

We need to endeavor to a little higher level of discourse. The snarkiness is played out, on both sides frankly. Maybe the history precludes finding some common ground. And if that's the case, then we should just recognize it for what it is and move on.


For all you westsiders & Pimp, it means "stop arguing and get a life"

[Raoul Duke]

Has anyone ever seen EastsideJ and XU87 in the same room at the same time?

[Eastside_J]

Well, well, well. This makes for great entertainment. 3 lawyers arguing amongst themselves. I guess you need to clarify what "is" is.

Make that two, unless I qualify in the "play one on TV" or "Holiday Inn Express" category.

I guess I should have gotten a JD. Although I feel pretty OK about arguing without one.

[Cincy Muskie]

EJ,

What happened with Ward? Did he just figure he wouldn't play that much or would be to far away from home? Or is there something else going on. What about Aldridge? Does he get the open scholly now? Or is Mitchell coming back? No smack just curios.

And to everybody and everyone who reads this and gives a crap do recruiting rankings really mean all that much anyway? We can look at our own program for that. Grant came out of nowhere. Prepstars was the only one giving West love and quoted as saying he could be 'a possible high major suprise'. We all thought Dontonio Wingfield was the second coming of Karl Malone and we know how that turned out. LP was our highest rated recruit and was a decent player but we all know he fell well short of expectations. We all get wrapped into this stuff but please remember we are putting stock into faceless scouts who are sharing their opinions. Did Gates really drop that far or did he have some bad sping events? And now he has just so remarkably improved off a few all star game appearances that he has jumped all the way up to five stars? Wow I mean this all seems so scientific.

[bearcat65]

EJ,

What happened with Ward? Did he just figure he wouldn't play that much or would be to far away from home? Or is there something else going on. What about Aldridge? Does he get the open scholly now? Or is Mitchell coming back? No smack just curios.

And to everybody and everyone who reads this and gives a crap do recruiting rankings really mean all that much anyway? We can look at our own program for that. Grant came out of nowhere. Prepstars was the only one giving West love and quoted as saying he could be 'a possible high major suprise'. We all thought Dontonio Wingfield was the second coming of Karl Malone and we know how that turned out. LP was our highest rated recruit and was a decent player but we all know he fell well short of expectations. We all get wrapped into this stuff but please remember we are putting stock into faceless scouts who are sharing their opinions. Did Gates really drop that far or did he have some bad sping events? And now he has just so remarkably improved off a few all star game appearances that he has jumped all the way up to five stars? Wow I mean this all seems so scientific.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080423/SPT0101/804230349/1064/SPT

Ward not signing appears to be mutual decision. Latest name circulating to take Ward's scholarship is Eshante Jones. Your question regarding Aldridge is one I'd like to have an answer for as well because I think he could be a contributor but I don't know that he will stay if he has to walk on. Mitchell appears to be coming back.

[pimpinthebox]

For all you westsiders & Pimp, it means "stop arguing and get a life"

Let it die.

[Eastside_J]

EJ,

What happened with Ward? Did he just figure he wouldn't play that much or would be to far away from home? Or is there something else going on. What about Aldridge? Does he get the open scholly now? Or is Mitchell coming back? No smack just curios.

And to everybody and everyone who reads this and gives a crap do recruiting rankings really mean all that much anyway? We can look at our own program for that. Grant came out of nowhere. Prepstars was the only one giving West love and quoted as saying he could be 'a possible high major suprise'. We all thought Dontonio Wingfield was the second coming of Karl Malone and we know how that turned out. LP was our highest rated recruit and was a decent player but we all know he fell well short of expectations. We all get wrapped into this stuff but please remember we are putting stock into faceless scouts who are sharing their opinions. Did Gates really drop that far or did he have some bad sping events? And now he has just so remarkably improved off a few all star game appearances that he has jumped all the way up to five stars? Wow I mean this all seems so scientific.

Ward had second thoughts about going to school so far from home. Its OK. Much better than to have a kid that is homesick or is stressed about being away from family from the start. He also was coming in to huge logjam at the two. I would imagine a redshirt was a serious possibility.

Rankings are far from perfect no doubt.

I don't think the national guys at Rivals have any idea what they are doing with Gates. But they know everytime he goes up against a higher ranked guy he tends to outshine them. I am not talking about all star games. Samardo Samuels is a fantastic PF and he couldn't stop gates. Gates played against #1 BJ Mullens a couple months ago and it was pretty obvious BJ wanted to avoid Gates as much as possible.

But, some of Gates's drop (from play his junior year) has to do with Gates himself. He was spending too much time on the perimeter as if he was auditioning as a SF. And he sometimes appeared to lose interest, stop hustling.

I don't think motivation will be a problem, UC has three other guys who can play the PF's spot, 4 if you count Aldridge. He will want to play, and Cronin will make him earn PT in practice.

Yancy Gates is going to be just fine :D

[Kahns Krazy]

Is EJ the first poster to achieve the "double red" rep? That is something to be proud of.


"I know what and I know when, I just don't know who." Classic.

[Cincy Muskie]

With the ink dried on Holloway's letter of intent I think we can all be happy about the prospects of 'Cheeks', Terrell, Redford, Walsh, Frease, McLean and Taylor next year joining the roster. Options is what it is all about and we got them. No fretting over a bum ankle next year.

It will be interesting to see how Mick begins to mold his team. Gates and Vaughn are 2 great pieces to start with. Let's be honest with Vaughn though he has had the 'green light' (and rightfully so) from day one. Now there will be some other talent to share the ball with let's see how it all comes together. It is one thing to recruit these guys but mold them and coaching them up seperates coaches. That is one thing we can all agree on about Sean is how he has developed guys and got them to buy into their roles, no easy task considering egos these days. Am I inferring I think Sean is better at developing players than Mick? Damn right. I will now also compare pay checks, job security, overall basketball skills (SM all time leading assist leader for the Big East, Mick scrappy guard from LaSalle HS), and NCAA tournament resumes. Did Mick get one up on him with Gates, sure but your not going to win them all. Check the Rivals site though and do a search on UC. They will list Holloway as a target for UC as well and well you know who he is with. What's my point? Sean is king of the Queen City and is positioned to be so for some time giving what rebuilding will be like in the Big East.

[PM Thor]

Cincy, although Holloway has committed to X, he can't sign an LOI. Just NCAA rules.

Now back to the fun with EJ, the same guy who has made accusations about Xavier before, and now says he knows something about something about someone but isn't sure who it is, but is sure that it is someone who may be a high profile recruit, or not.

[xavierj]

He can't sign a letter of intent but Sean Miller did issue a realease about Holloway signing his scholarship papers today and Miller had high praise about him as a player as well as a person.

[Cincy Muskie]

Your right PM. It was a 'scholarship offer'. Either way the future is rosy on Victory Parkway.

[Eastside_J]

Cincy, although Holloway has committed to X, he can't sign an LOI. Just NCAA rules.

Now back to the fun with EJ, the same guy who has made accusations about Xavier before, and now says he knows something about something about someone but isn't sure who it is, but is sure that it is someone who may be a high profile recruit, or not.

Ahhh, what is your question?

[PM Thor]

Ahhh, what is your question?

Question is this...

With C McClain and F Wilks both being 4 star recruits per Rivals last year, in their averaged time of 24 minutes, they only averaged a 3.6 pts and 1.7 reb.

Now compare that to Xaviers 4 star recruit per Rivals last year, Dante Jackson. In 10.4 minutes, roughly half UCs 4 star recruits had on the floor, Dante scored 2.4 pts, and got 1.1 rebounds, as a guard.

Now, tell me why you would want to be so forthcoming in trying to take rankings from high school and apply them to college. I am fully aware that many posters on here harp on the rankings. But until they step on the court in their college uniform, it means absolutely nothing, just ask Churchill Odia about that.

[Eastside_J]

Question is this...

With C McClain and F Wilks both being 4 star recruits per Rivals last year, in their averaged time of 24 minutes, they only averaged a 3.6 pts and 1.7 reb.

Now compare that to Xaviers 4 star recruit per Rivals last year, Dante Jackson. In 10.4 minutes, roughly half UCs 4 star recruits had on the floor, Dante scored 2.4 pts, and got 1.1 rebounds, as a guard.

Now, tell me why you would want to be so forthcoming in trying to take rankings from high school and apply them to college. I am fully aware that many posters on here harp on the rankings. But until they step on the court in their college uniform, it means absolutely nothing, just ask Churchill Odia about that.

Well first those the numbers you have are way off: McClain averaged 9.5 minutes a game and Wilks averaged 4.5. So if you average those averages you would get 7 minutes a game.

McClain scored 2.7 pts and 3 rebounds and averaged nearly one block (.8) a game in those 9.5 minutes, which compares favorably to Dante. Not a slam on Dante, however, I think he is going to be a very good player.

McClain was playing with multiple bone spurs in one foot. They were removed after the season, which should be a good thing for him next year. But those 7 footers and their damn problem feet are always a concern. Healthy and with some development, I think he can be a very good BE center and NBA prospect.

Wilks was not ready. It really should have been a redshirt year.

[thywillbedone]

snarkiness.... what a word

[bearcat65]

With the ink dried on Holloway's letter of intent I think we can all be happy about the prospects of 'Cheeks', Terrell, Redford, Walsh, Frease, McLean and Taylor next year joining the roster. Options is what it is all about and we got them. No fretting over a bum ankle next year.

Check the Rivals site though and do a search on UC. They will list Holloway as a target for UC as well and well you know who he is with. What's my point? Sean is king of the Queen City and is positioned to be so for some time giving what rebuilding will be like in the Big East.

Holloway is no doubt a good player but I think UC lost out on him to Indiana. By the time he got released from Indiana UC already had a higher rated PG signed in Wright not that Holloway probably wouldn't have headed to X regardless.
Miller is a good coach but he didn't step into the situation Cronin did. I think it will be another year or so before the two can be compared.

[PM Thor]

EJ, I did make a mistake about the minutes, misread a stat sheet.

But you helped to bolster my point that I was making in the first place. Rankings really don't matter in terms of what will happen. From injuries, to development (Red shirting), to time on the floor, you cannot forecast them. So no matter how many stars a kid has, and all of the accolades a kid may get, it doesn't mean squat when they hit campus. Heck, X might RS Michigans Mr Basketball, just as an example of high school rankings meaning nothing.

[Eastside_J]

EJ, I did make a mistake about the minutes, misread a stat sheet.

But you helped to bolster my point that I was making in the first place. Rankings really don't matter in terms of what will happen. From injuries, to development (Red shirting), to time on the floor, you cannot forecast them. So no matter how many stars a kid has, and all of the accolades a kid may get, it doesn't mean squat when they hit campus. Heck, X might RS Michigans Mr Basketball, just as an example of high school rankings meaning nothing.

No worries and I agree with you about rankings, injuries development etc.

You have to see a kid play in person against other elite level players and even then you have the random factors that come into play along with forecasting their transition into major college bb.

Except for Gates, he can grab the ball, shove you under the basket and dunk it on your head and that pretty much always works at every level :D