Crean recruit follows him to Indiana

[Snipe]

A point guard Tom Crean recruited at Marquette asked out of his LOI. He committed today to Indiana.

Link. (http://www.pal-item.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080421/UPDATES/80421038/1008/NEWS01)

I will tell you what, I don't care for that at all.

If I am Marquette I would have given him a conditional release on his LOI. I would have made 2 conditions. 1) That he meets with our new coach and gives him an honest chance, & 2) That the only school he is not allowed to go to is Indiana.

If Sean Miller would have taken the Indiana job I would have been disappointed to say the least. On some level though, I understand about the banners and it is the Indiana job. I do respect the program for what they have done. I would have been upset.

But if Sean Miller had taken the Indiana job and then taken Frease and his recruiting class with him I would have gone ballistic with rage. I really don't like that. I think Crean should have told the kid that Marquette was still a good fit, and that one of Crean's capable old assistants would be there for him. I think it is wrong for Crean to had offered him a scholarship.

I just don't like the taste or smell of any of it. Recruits should be free to go, but they shouldn't be enticed to follow the coach.

[XU05and07]

I can see this going both ways...

1. The student is sold on the school, the academics, and the possibilities for the best learning environment for them. A student should be coming for the classroom experience and getting a degree unless they truly are a one-and-done situation.

2. The student is sold on the coach. The student sees being with a certain coach, no matter the university that he is at, and the opportunities of learning from that basketball mind. That coach's teaching style, style of play, rapport with his/her players, and the ability to advance their skills onto the next level should also be considered. If Bobby Knight or Coach K started coaching at New Jersey Institute of Technology next year, the caliber of player is not going there for the school, but for the basketball mind the university hired.

It's hard either way. Maybe the right thing to do is have the new coach meet with the player and sell him on the school or that the style is going to remain the same and have faith in the new coach. But if the player has a LOI, I would think that it would be unethical for Crean to call him up and recruit him for the new school.

[Snipe]

The coach leaves. The player asks out of the LOI. The school says yes. I am down with that. The player might not fit the new coaches system (See Rick Majerus and the overhaul at SLU).

I am fine with it so far.

I just don't like the former coach taking his recruits with him. That is what happened here. I would have been fine if the kid signed with anyone else.

[wkrq59]

Snipe and 05-07,
Observations:
*Whether it's Tom Crean, Travis Ford or Rick Majerus, coaches poach their former players when they leave the school. I am very surprised Huggins didn't try totake Beasley with him to W.Va. But he'd already hired the kid's coach as an assistant at KSU and had the kid break his verbal commitment to Charlotte and Bobby Lutz.
*I said before and I'll say again, Indiana is not the Valhalla of head basketball coaching jobs. I don't give a sh!t about their tradition or the quaint town of Bloomington or the coaching from Branch McCracken to Bob Knight to Mike Davis to Kelvin Sampson to Tom (I love Marquette) Crean. Since Myles Brand chose to fire Knight, Indiana has been a piece of crap program.
Mike Davis couldn't please those people and they deserved what they got with the Sleazy Sampson.
I doubt sincerely you would see Sean Miller break a commitment to kids he recruited.
Also face something else that you have all seen for years across town. Xavier would receive an oral commitment from a local kid, a good player, and the head coach across town would be on the phone before the papers had been called by his high school coach telling the kid he could do much more for him and that the kid was under no obligation to fulfill that commitment.
Do you think Billy Gillespie didn't try to take some of his top players at A&M with him to UK?
This is one of the reasons I have such a high regard for Sean Miller. He really does like it at Xavier. He is smart enough to see the pitfalls of an Indiana. And despite all the longings and wishes of the Indiana fans and self-styled super knowledgeable basketball devotees who can get anything they want, how certain are we that Sean was ever offered the job, ever visited the campus and finally even expressed interest in the job?
I've been involved in too man ycoaching searches from many sides and I know that the amount of fact and truth in most of the coaching stories you read is minescule. And it's even worse on the chatboards. My Jesuit training has caused me to question first and withhold belief until I've been Missour-ied. Shown face up.:D

[X-band '01]

What would you say about Shawn James? He committed to play for Ron Everhart at Northeastern, and once Everhart took the Duquesne job, James also transferred and sat out a year. I know it's apples and oranges, but should both recruits with active LOIs and current players be held to the same standard?

[Muskie]

A point guard Tom Crean recruited at Marquette asked out of his LOI. He committed today to Indiana.

Link. (http://www.pal-item.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080421/UPDATES/80421038/1008/NEWS01)

I will tell you what, I don't care for that at all.

If I am Marquette I would have given him a conditional release on his LOI. I would have made 2 conditions. 1) That he meets with our new coach and gives him an honest chance, & 2) That the only school he is not allowed to go to is Indiana.

If Sean Miller would have taken the Indiana job I would have been disappointed to say the least. On some level though, I understand about the banners and it is the Indiana job. I do respect the program for what they have done. I would have been upset.

But if Sean Miller had taken the Indiana job and then taken Frease and his recruiting class with him I would have gone ballistic with rage. I really don't like that. I think Crean should have told the kid that Marquette was still a good fit, and that one of Crean's capable old assistants would be there for him. I think it is wrong for Crean to had offered him a scholarship.

I just don't like the taste or smell of any of it. Recruits should be free to go, but they shouldn't be enticed to follow the coach.

Snipe, just so you know. Williams, his mother, and his AAU Coach all met with Buzz Williams (Marquette new coach) last week. After meeting with him, Williams decided he didn't want to play at Marquette under Williams. I thought I'd just point that out.

[xeus]

Bobby Capobianco from Loveland HS is following Crean to IU also.

[Muskie]

Yes but I believe Bobby was also being recruited by Sampson. He also wasn't committed to Marquette previously.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Snipe and 05-07,
Observations:
*Whether it's Tom Crean, Travis Ford or Rick Majerus, coaches poach their former players when they leave the school. I am very surprised Huggins didn't try totake Beasley with him to W.Va. But he'd already hired the kid's coach as an assistant at KSU and had the kid break his verbal commitment to Charlotte and Bobby Lutz.
*I said before and I'll say again, Indiana is not the Valhalla of head basketball coaching jobs. I don't give a sh!t about their tradition or the quaint town of Bloomington or the coaching from Branch McCracken to Bob Knight to Mike Davis to Kelvin Sampson to Tom (I love Marquette) Crean. Since Myles Brand chose to fire Knight, Indiana has been a piece of crap program.
Mike Davis couldn't please those people and they deserved what they got with the Sleazy Sampson.
I doubt sincerely you would see Sean Miller break a commitment to kids he recruited.
Also face something else that you have all seen for years across town. Xavier would receive an oral commitment from a local kid, a good player, and the head coach across town would be on the phone before the papers had been called by his high school coach telling the kid he could do much more for him and that the kid was under no obligation to fulfill that commitment.
Do you think Billy Gillespie didn't try to take some of his top players at A&M with him to UK?
This is one of the reasons I have such a high regard for Sean Miller. He really does like it at Xavier. He is smart enough to see the pitfalls of an Indiana. And despite all the longings and wishes of the Indiana fans and self-styled super knowledgeable basketball devotees who can get anything they want, how certain are we that Sean was ever offered the job, ever visited the campus and finally even expressed interest in the job?
I've been involved in too man ycoaching searches from many sides and I know that the amount of fact and truth in most of the coaching stories you read is minescule. And it's even worse on the chatboards. My Jesuit training has caused me to question first and withhold belief until I've been Missour-ied. Shown face up.:D

They went to the NCAA Tournament Finals, and they were a top 15 program this year and they had been passed the first round on at least 2 other occasions before this year. I wouldn't say they havent done crap. They havent filled the big expectations that a program like Indiana has year in and yoear out, but I wouldnt say they havent done crap. They hadnt done that much in Knights last few years either though.

[Stonebreaker]

Players commit to a school, and not the coach. I don't agree with it at all. Then again, I do think that coaches have all the power, and the players have none. At least the kid was able to do so before he had to sit out a year.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Players commit to a school, and not the coach.

Just like Communism, this only works in theory.

The overwhelming majority of big time D-1 recruits commit to the coach, and attend classes where he works. I have absolutely no problem with this.

[MADXSTER]

Players commit to a school, and not the coach.

I have to agree with Adam. I don't have any problem with players leaving.

A coach is the one recruiting the kid to the school and no one else. His main influence is the coach. Take that away and the kid is left wavering on what to do. It's the incoming coach's job to then keep the kid if possible. And yes it would suck if they went elsewhere. Luckily, I don't recall any Xavier recruits leaving. Maybe because Xavier is more than just basketball.

What I don't like is letting players transfer from one school to another within the same conference. Something just doesn't seem right about that.

[SM#24]

I've often thought about what is the "right" thing as far as coaches leaving, especially for another school, and have come to the conclusion there really is no clear right or wrong.

My loyalty (as an alum/fan/supporter) is 100% with the school. I would like to think that a player commits to the school and not the coach. And while I feel a recruit needs to consider and choose based on both the school and the coach, if I had a son being recruited, i would tell him it is more important to select the "right" coach for him.

Unless a coach is never allowed to leave the school he is currently coaching at, it's always going to be an unfortunate situation for the players and recruits and the school he is leaving, and there really is no solution. Recruitng is a 24/7/365 multi-year process, and always done under the premise that you are going to be the coach. So once you leave a school, you are breaking a commitment or going back on your word to your current players and active recruits (especially any committed recruits).
Q, you stated you doubt that Sean Miller would ever break his commitment to the kids he recruited. The only way that can happen is if he never left Xavier (which I hope he never does), even when he retires.

In some sense, you could say Xavier's hands are a little dirty in all this. 2 of our last 3 coaches were poached from schools where they were head coach for only one year. While we didn't take their recruits as well, both Skip and Thad broke their commitment to those schools and the kids they were coaching and recruiting.

What is the "right" way to do it, I really don't know. In some sense, I like Snipe's thought of not allowing the recruit to follow the coach, but isn't that penalizing the kid ?