Law question- Emancipation

[ATL Muskie]

Hey guys, I know there are quite a few law-talkin' guys on the board and thought I would throw this out to you and appeal to you for advice.

My wife just got back from Cincy last night and here's the story. It's a long one, so I'll try to keep it brief.

Her niece, who is 16 and will be 17 in Oct., is pregnant and due to deliver in May. Her father and step-mother are and have been pressuring her to sign over custody of the baby to them. The girl doesn't want to do that. They claim they are doing it so she won't have to be on welfare, but everyone else in the family suspects it is really because the step-mother has always wanted a boy and has four children of her own, all girls. We get a call this AM from my mother-in-law who is all upset because this morning they presented the daughter with the papers and threatened to take her off their insurance and kick her out of the house if she didn't sign the papers. My understanding, while limited, is that a parent can't emancipate a child under 18, and a child can't self-emancipate just because they're pissed off at each other.

I'm upset that the worthless step-mother is holding all of this over her head a month before she is due to give birth. This is all so Jerry Springer-like, it's crazy. My wife told her mom to bring the girl down here and we'll take care of her because we have the room and the means to do so, something her father and step-mother don't have. I think it's pretty shitty to pressure the girl to do all of this a month before the baby is due, and I understand parents have certain rights, but I also think parents should be supportive and not threaten to kick a minor out or withhold insurance/medical treatment etc. just because they don't get their way.

Legally, what options if any does the girl have. I told my mother-in-law that in my estimation she is stuck with the parents and they're stuck with her until she's 18. They can't really kick her out b/c they have a responsibility to provide care for their minor daughter, and she can't pack up and leave b/c she's 16. Could she come down here and be cared for by my wife and me, or would that present some legal problems? Honestly, the step-mother may just want her out of the house, but then again I really think she just wants custody of the baby because they're been trying to have a boy for 9 years now and all they have is 4 girls to show for it. It's so hillbilly it's not even funny. I would just like to remove my wife's niece from the whole situation but I don't want to cause any family or legal problems.

Any advice is much appreciated. I told my wife it's a little too coincidental that they presented the papers the morning after she leaves Cincy, probably because they know my wife would have thrown the girl in her car and brought her down here. Crazy stuff.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I'll give it a shot. First, simply tell her not to sign the paperwork. If they kick her out of the house, then they are neglecting to provide care for her and she certainly can move in with you. At that point, you can file a complaint for custody in Ohio and attempt to get custody of her. She can tell the Judge/Magistrate what her father did to her and how they kicked her out of the house. You may have a good shot at getting custody being that she is 16.

On the other hand, it sounds like Dad has custody of the child. Has your niece talked to her mother? Would it be possible for Mom to file a motion to modify custody and get custody of the 16 year old so she is not exposed to such senseless pressure from her father?

I would recommend that Mom try to get custody if that's possible. Parents have superior rights to non parents...and in order for you and your wife to get custody, you would have to prove that Dad is unfit...which can be difficult. You would also have to get Mom's consent for custody. However, if you have Mom's consent and Dad has kicked your niece out of the house, then I think all things considered (niece's age and desire to live with you, being kicked out of house, mom's consent), I think you could make a strong argument for obtaining custody and having her live with you.

Good luck.

[ATL Muskie]

I appreciate the advice. The biological mom isn't an option, unfortunately. She hasn't had contact with her in at least 5 yrs. She tried living with her (down in Lexington) but it was an even more messed up situation and the mom's boyfriend was evidently a meth addict and a freak. This poor girl has been through hell, and she really needs support, which makes it all the more frustrating that they're doing all of this right now. We'll see how it plays out, but I would really like to bring her down here and give her a sense of normalcy, something she hasn't had in the 11 yrs I've known her. I just don't want to create any family or legal problems while trying to help.

Thanks again for the advice. truly appreciated.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Just a few other things for you and your family to consider, ATL. First off, I don't know what kind of "custody papers" your niece is being asked to sign...in order for the grandparents to get legal custody, they would have to file a Complaint For Custody in Juvenile Court. They would need not only your niece's signature/consent, but they would also need the consent of the father....and the father would need to be determined. The putative father could either openly acknowledge that he is the father in court or he could request DNA testing to establish paternity. Only once he is determined to be the father could he consent to the grandparents having custody, if, in fact, that was his desire. Your niece's notarized signature on a piece of paper saying the grandparents are custodians is worthless unless or until it is signed by dad and then also signed by a judge.

If the biological father wants to consent to the grandparents having custody, I would strongly urge your niece not to consent. She may never get her child back. In Ohio, once a court has signed an order allocating parental rights and responsibilities (designating a custodian), in order for that Court Entry to be modified, the moving party (this would be your niece requesting custody be modified and restored to her) must show the court that there is a change of circumstances, in the life of the child, or the life of the residential parent, that warrants a modification. If the grandparents get custody by agreement and tell your niece they will sign custody over to her once she emancipates or gets her life in order, then your niece does these things and wants custody of her child, she may still be out of luck. A change in the circumstances of niece's life (getting a job, house, etc) is not a change in circumstances in the life of the child. If you can't prove a change in circumstances in the life of the child, the court can't modify custody. In other words, if grandparents are taking good care of the young child, mom can't get custody back because there won't be a change in the child's life.

Here is a link to an Ohio Supreme Court case that is pretty on point with what I'm saying...I think its garbage. I couldn't agree more with Stratton's dissent about troubled parents being scared to sign over custody for fear of losing their children permanently.

http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/docs/pdf/0/2007/2007-ohio-2335.pdf


I would just tell your niece to call her parent's bluff. If step mom wants a baby boy around badly enough, she won't kick the niece out of the house. When the niece turns 18, she needs to high tail it down to your place.

If you have any other questions or concerns, I'll do my best to answer them for you.

[ATL Muskie]

Interesting. It's funny, b/c you used the same terminology I used when I first heard about all of this. I told my wife she should call their bluff. That's the way I see this whole thing, as a big power play on their part, and stuck in the middle are the girl and the baby. It's ridiculous.

Never really considered the paternal father's rights in this. I know he's not very involved in her life right now, but I do know when she found out she was pregnant my brother-in-law met with his parents and they agreed to help out as much as they could. Granted, that was 9 mos ago so who knows.

Good advice on trying to regain custody. Thanks a lot of for your help.

[XU05and07]

I'm no lawyer and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...but the step-mother has no say in this unless she adopted the girl when she married her father.

I know in healthcare, the chain of surrogacy without power of attorney involved goes:
-Spouse (not necessarily the paternal father)
-Adult children (not the case)
-Biological Parents
-Close Relatives
-Legal Guardian

Unless the legal guardian was granted to the step-mother, she is the bottom of the list. At 16, she is considered a mature child and has the same rights as an adult. At 16, if a physician believes that she is competent enough, she can be seen without a parent and can give consent for medical treatment. At that point, the step-mother would be required to have a power of attorney, which I would suggest that you don't have your niece sign (maybe those are the papers they want her to sign)

[Nigel Tufnel]

The step mother and father can both be named custodians of the baby...anyone can be designated custodian if a court orders it. Its more difficult for non parents to get custody over parents because a finding of unfitness is required. However, stepmom and dad can be designated custodians of the baby especially if niece and biological father consent to it.

ATL, don't have her consent to dad and step mom being legal guardians of the minor either...there is very little difference between guardianship and custody...however, if your niece finds that she is in a situation where its one or the other, have her consent to a guardianship. She can tell the Probate Judge at the guardianship hearing that she is only consenting to the guardianship until such time as she is emancipated/has her life in order. Under those circumstances, she would be able to go back and have the guardianship terminated by showing she is stable/emancipated, etc. No requirement for change of circumstances when terminating a guardianship of a minor.

[waggy]

Not a lawyer, and don't want/probably shouldn't get in this... But how is a 16 yr old girl with a family as described supposed to care for herself let alone an infant?

[GuyFawkes38]

Not a lawyer, and don't want/probably shouldn't get in this... But how is a 16 yr old girl with a family as described supposed to care for herself let alone an infant?

Yes, a reasonable question. But there are many organizations that would provide financial assistance and/or lodging.

[waggy]

Lodging: Half way to where house? I don't know. Thankfully neither am I, do I have a 16 year old pregnant daughter. I do know that no matter the accomodations I doubt they are ideal, and a far cry from home.

Financial assistance: Welfare? Churches? Both are going to encourage working within the family structure.

But this is all beside the point. A 16 year old girl made an adult, truly life affecting decision/choice. And now more choices have to be made, and these will also have consequences for the remainder of her life, just as the first did. Everyone is wired different, but she'll likely have regrets at various points later in life if she gives up the kid. But it's part and parcel to these situations. And the childs well being needs to be considered. It doesn't sound to me like her (16yr old) life is going to be easy if she keeps it, and it might not be best if Mom and Dad keep it either. Yes, you get to watch your child grow up, but you can also never escape the presence of what might be viewed as a mistake in life. Your always reminded. And just to be clear I'm a no-nothing on this deal.

[ATL Muskie]

Lodging: Half way to where house? I don't know. Thankfully neither am I, do I have a 16 year old pregnant daughter. I do know that no matter the accomodations I doubt they are ideal, and a far cry from home.

Financial assistance: Welfare? Churches? Both are going to encourage working within the family structure.

But this is all beside the point. A 16 year old girl made an adult, truly life affecting decision/choice. And now more choices have to be made, and these will also have consequences for the remainder of her life, just as the first did. Everyone is wired different, but she'll likely have regrets at various points later in life if she gives up the kid. But it's part and parcel to these situations. And the childs well being needs to be considered. It doesn't sound to me like her (16yr old) life is going to be easy if she keeps it, and it might not be best if Mom and Dad keep it either. Yes, you get to watch your child grow up, but you can also never escape the presence of what might be viewed as a mistake in life. Your always reminded. And just to be clear I'm a no-nothing on this deal.

Fair points, waggy. There's a whole lot more going on than I described; the ideal situation would be for the dad and step-mom to just suck it up and help the girl, who by the way is still in school and is working part-time. She'd do OK with a little bit of support. The step-mom has made her life hell since she married the teen's father (about 10 yrs ago), and while the girl has made mistakes and been a pain in the ass, the step-mom is not and has not been acting like an adult the 10 plus years I've known her. It's a big mess.

Honestly, I sort of hope they kick her out so she can live with my wife's mom or, as a last resort, with us b/c mom-in-law or here would be a much better environment for her and the baby. While I'm not exactly looking forward to dealing with that situation, I would welcome them because it would make the niece's life a bit easier, and by extension the baby. It's a big mess that could be avoided or at least lessened a bit of the father and step-mother would just grow up and be helpful and supportive of the girl. But I don't have much faith that it will happen at this point.

[Muskie]

ATL... what state are we talking here. It seems like Ohio (and lord knows i could have missed it)... just wanted to make sure before I comment.

[ATL Muskie]

Yes, OH. They live on the westside of Cincinnati. My in-laws live there too.

[xeus]

ATL, the best advice I can give you is to have the niece, the father, and the stepmother all register on xavierhoops.com. I'm pretty sure we can get it all worked out right here on this board.

[ATL Muskie]

ATL, the best advice I can give you is to have the niece, the father, and the stepmother all register on xavierhoops.com. I'm pretty sure we can get it all worked out right here on this board.

Heck yeah, I'm down with that. Unfortunately they're all UC fans (and one is a graduate), which in and of itself presents many challenges.

Actually, come to think of it they'd feel more at home on the Jerry Springer show.

[Stonebreaker]

Parents who pull this crap......upsets me even more than higher taxes. Good luck to the niece.