Game Thread: NCAA Xavier University v University of Illinois (3/21/2025)

[waggy]

Outrebounded by 20

[D-West & PO-Z]

You’re correct they weren’t star recruits. The whole point is they developed year by year and stuck with the program and became stars. That’s not how it works anymore unfortunately.

Also Claude did very clearly leave for more money it’s very well known. I know it was to “play point” as well but it was for money be real.

Not what I’ve heard on Claude. Agree to disagree.

Also the guys who have been leaving X (except for Des) have been missed by X and “forced out” by X. Not guys we’ve recruited and did well and wanted to stay and left for better schools. The opposite.

The guy who that does apply to is Swain. Also Freemantle. If we lose Swain this offseason it’s another discussion.

So still, for me, your fear/descrition of what’s happening at X is not valid.

[GoMuskies]

And Marquette!

[D-West & PO-Z]

I guess Swain is a good test case!

Bingo. Fingers crossed!

[D-West & PO-Z]

I think it’s easier to compete now, in the NIL era, than it was in the A-10.

Actually totally agree.

[Caveat]

I think it’s easier to compete now, in the NIL era, than it was in the A-10.

You can turn a program around from bad to good quicker — but getting from good to great is exponentially harder now because your best players will seek immediate paydays elsewhere.

Trevon & JP would never have come back to X as seniors in the current climate.

[Xville]

College ball has fundamentally changed. It’s no coincidence that the SEC and their endless base of TV dollars and booster cash is suddenly the best conference in college basketball with paying players legalized.

Until there’s some kind of spending limits put in place, it’s going to be very tough for any smaller schools to stay consistently good or compete with big programs. It’s why Jay Wright and Tony Bennett got out of the coaching profession.

Xavier has to identify the market inefficiency somehow and hope Miller is OK with the situation.

The sec is the best conference because espn says it is. I watched it all season long. Their top 3-4 are great. The rest is just like any other power conference.

Regardless, I agree nil dollars is the rub. X needs post players. I don’t think x even needs the top 5-10 post guys to come, just need the traores of the world. Competent, strong with a bit of an attitude.

I think miller has shown that getting the guards aren’t ever going to be an issue, but must ahve a solid stable of post guys. This portal season will say a lot. From now until May/june, we will have a very good idea of what the roster is going to look like and what x’s outlook is for next year

[GoMuskies]

If so, I guess Miller's just not as good now as he was then.

[Xville]

This.

Pitino doesn’t even look for HS kids any longer because he knows you’re either paying a kid who isn’t worth it, who will leave for PT rather than wait and develop, or who will demand more money the second they perform.

The era of the 4-year player at one school is over for everyone but the walk ons.

I guess we are just making things up now. May want to check on St. John’s last few recruiting classes

[D-West & PO-Z]

You can turn a program around from bad to good quicker — but getting from good to great is exponentially harder now because your best players will seek immediate paydays elsewhere.

Trevon & JP would never have come back to X as seniors in the current climate.

You can’t make something up no one could possibly know to declare yourself correct.

Freemantle and Kalbrenner two all big East guys just stayed 5 years at the same smaller midwestern private schools in the height of the NIL/portal era.

[LOLmickcronin]

I think it’s easier to compete now, in the NIL era, than it was in the A-10.

I think you may be right in terms of strictly going after transfers and recruits in general.

But I think our A-10 era was easier overall bc we truly understood how to be successful and could do it in different ways. Not it’s mostly be the highest bidder for transfers and throw a team together. A lot harder with Xavier’s disadvantages

[LOLmickcronin]

Not what I’ve heard on Claude. Agree to disagree.

Also the guys who have been leaving X (except for Des) have been missed by X and “forced out” by X. Not guys we’ve recruited and did well and wanted to stay and left for better schools. The opposite.

The guy who that does apply to is Swain. Also Freemantle. If we lose Swain this offseason it’s another discussion.

So still, for me, your fear/descrition of what’s happening at X is not valid.

I truly hope you’re right. I think the main thing with the guys that leave is this recruiting/transfer cycle due to NIL that sucks. And it’s not unique to Xavier.

But year in and year out you bring in young players and they ride the bench because you also bring in 5th year senior transfers that averaged 20 ppg at a mid major and yes are more mature and ready to play than your freshmen. Then the recruits transfer/are forced out bc they’re not playing. The transfers graduate. Then you rinse and repeat. Hard to really build towards anything with that.

[waggy]

If so, I guess Miller's just not as good now as he was then.

He's a better coach. But how does he get guys like Tu or Lavender?

[Caveat]

You can’t make something up no one could possibly know to declare yourself correct.

Freemantle and Kalbrenner two all big East guys just stayed 5 years at the same smaller midwestern private schools in the height of the NIL/portal era.

Freemantle had two major injuries that hindered his transfer portal market this offseason.

Just because the analysts & pundits refuse to talk about this stuff publicly doesn’t make it go away — these guys all have salary demands that escalate the second they have big years. And, with no controls on any of this, every year turns into a renegotiation for money.

Unless / until Xavier’s budget increases they’re going to have to make business decisions on their top guys.

[Xville]

Lots of freaking out about next year when the season just ended. Maybe we wait until portal season is over before declaring such statements that x can never compete in this era. I dunno just a thought. With a healthy traore, maybe x grabs a 6 or 7 and we are still playing.

Good night all. At least we were back in the tourney again. Hopefully it’s something x can build on.

[Xavier]

I think you may be right in terms of strictly going after transfers and recruits in general.

But I think our A-10 era was easier overall bc we truly understood how to be successful and could do it in different ways. Not it’s mostly be the highest bidder for transfers and throw a team together. A lot harder with Xavier’s disadvantages

What X had to do to compete in the A-10 (against conference, facilities, 100% have to develop lower level recruits, etc etc) is more difficult than having 4-5 million and buying a team. Yes, X is expected to have that. And if I were Sean, I’d spend most of that on 6-7 guys. But that’s not the discussion at hand. We get to go pick great mid major talent now. Sean had proven to be great at finding guards. Bigs have been tough to tell- not a priority last year until too late and this year the big got hurt before the season,

[Caveat]

He's a better coach. But how does he get guys like Tu or Lavender?

You have to recruit them in the portal as juniors and seniors and then outbid other teams.

Miller’s done well with guards — Souley, Q, Conwell — where the budget is coming up short is finding quality bigs or the freak athletes that can get to the bucket.

[waggy]

Sean got to 2 tourneys in 3 years with a record of 3-2. And that is with a bunch of frontcourt injuries. Excellent work considering the prior 4.

[LOLmickcronin]

What X had to do to compete in the A-10 (against conference, facilities, 100% have to develop lower level recruits, etc etc) is more difficult than having 4-5 million and buying a team. Yes, X is expected to have that. And if I were Sean, I’d spend most of that on 6-7 guys. But that’s not the discussion at hand. We get to go pick great mid major talent now. Sean had proven to be great at finding guards. Bigs have been tough to tell- not a priority last year until too late and this year the big got hurt before the season,

Totally agree on the 6-7 guys thing. Makes no sense to go 9-10 deep ever when the 9th-10th guys leave anyway.

[Caveat]

Sean got to 2 tourneys in 3 years with a record of 3-2. And that is with a bunch of frontcourt injuries. Excellent work considering the prior 4.

100%.

The program is back where it needs to be. Now it’s figuring out how to keep Miller around and find more money to take the next step.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Freemantle had two major injuries that hindered his transfer portal market this offseason.

Just because the analysts & pundits refuse to talk about this stuff publicly doesn’t make it go away — these guys all have salary demands that escalate the second they have big years. And, with no controls on any of this, every year turns into a renegotiation for money.

Unless / until Xavier’s budget increases they’re going to have to make business decisions on their top guys.

Freemantle stayed before any injuries and during a coaching change.

He was pursued this offseason as well.

Dude probably goes down as the most loyal Xavier player ever given the era he played in and the amount of years he played here.

[Xville]

Last thing I’ll add we played a team with 3 nba players on it. Very few college teams that have that kind of talent. We matched up much better with uk and Tennessee for that matter. Just ran into a ridiculously talented albeit young team tonight

[Caveat]

Freemantle stayed before any injuries and during a coaching change.

He was pursued this offseason as well.

Dude probably goes down as the most loyal Xavier player ever given the era he played in and the amount of years he played here.

Freemantle may be the last single-school / 4-year player Xavier has for a long time.

Happy for him that he had this tournament opportunity.

[Xavier]

Last thing I’ll add we played a team with 3 nba players on it. Very few college teams that have that kind of talent. We matched up much better with uk and Tennessee for that matter. Just ran into a ridiculously talented albeit young team tonight

Thought the same thing. Illinois was inconsistent (wild injury season tho) but most agreed- most talented big 10 team. When they are on, I thought they’d be tougher than UK and probably Tennessee but Tennessee is a little underrated.

They were on, and we had no answer

[GoMuskies]

100%.

The program is back where it needs to be. Now it’s figuring out how to keep Miller around and find more money to take the next step.

The program is definitely NOT back where it needs to be. Getting closer, for sure, but the standard is the standard. And this ain't it.

[Caveat]

The program is definitely NOT back where it needs to be. Getting closer, for sure, but the standard is the standard. And this ain't it.

“Back where it needs to be” = Making the tournament as the expectation.

Once you make it, you’re at the mercy of matchups and the individual bounces in a given game.

[Xavier]

The program is definitely NOT back where it needs to be. Getting closer, for sure, but the standard is the standard. And this ain't it.

I’d love to say it takes time to build it back, Steele left us in shambles, etc.

But program these days are much more year to year than anything. Some brutal injury luck- but I do think this era takes out Sean’s biggest strength (player development). He’s widely regarded as a very solid in game coach. This year the team did get better towards the end/ a Sean staple/ but I can only imagine where it would be next season with a bunch of the guys back.

Sean will have to adapt. He has yet to go through a season since his return without a major injury. People overlook Freemantle injury his first year because the team did so well after- but it was final four good with healthy Zach.

[D-West & PO-Z]

“Back where it needs to be” = Making the tournament as the expectation.

Once you make it, you’re at the mercy of matchups and the individual bounces in a given game.

Making it more safely is where we should be. However great coaching job by Miller to get us there this year given how it started and the injury to Traore and Freemantle for a few games.

But we should expect to make it most years and make it with a decent seed.

[FishingXfan]

Hey guys, first time poster here but have been reading and lurking for years for a lot of my Xavier news.

But, I’m deciding to make my first post an hour and a half after the game. lol.

My 2 cents on the future.

Miller isn’t leaving, Swain isn’t leaving, and Conwell isn’t leaving. I just can’t see it happening. Both are focal points of the team even more so moving forward, no need to learn a new system and a new team when both clearly had great seasons here. I just can’t see X and Sean let them 2 out the door. Similar to the situation with my Bengals with Chase and Higgins. You just can’t let great players leave the program. I trust Sean. He will put us in a good position next season. Just my opinion.

I won’t touch on tonight’s game, it is what it is. As for the season? Sitting at 9-7, we all thought the season was over. But Sean did a hell of a job got us dancing. Beat Texas in thrilling fashion. I will remember the Texas game for years to come. It easily one of top 25 Xavier games ever. It was a big win. After that for me it was all icing on the cake if we were to win more. I knew we had a good chance tonight. They played their A game and we played our C- game, except for Swain.

Hats off to our Xavier Musketeers this season. Sean did a hell of a coaching job this season. Now, wait to see who we snag in the portal. All I got is the Reds for the next 6 months, blah. I mean I love the Reds, but it’s just not like a fall, Sunday afternoon watching Burrow drop a dime to Chase for the touchdown. It’s certainly not better than watching X play on a random Wednesday night in January against Georgetown or anyone for that matter. Guess it’s time to go fishing lol.

Go Muskies!!!!!


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[GoMuskies]

“Back where it needs to be” = Making the tournament as the expectation.

Once you make it, you’re at the mercy of matchups and the individual bounces in a given game.

I think the standard is a lot higher than trying to barely sneak into the play-in game. At least it used to be.

[waggy]

There are a lot of forces working against the Xaviers of the world. Other than Kentucky and sorta LSU, the SEC ain't really been all that historically. It's obvious as hell that things have changed in a big way. "Expectations" need to be adjusted unless you happen to be the one paying for the roster.

[xukeith]

I am rooting very hard for X to be competitive with these top 4 BE teams(UConn, SJU, Creight., MU).
Nova and X are probably trying to fight for 3rd, 4th , 5th place.
X has top 5 resources, facilities, and coaching staffs. X does not have top 5 BE NIL $. Maybe I am wrong about our NIL $.
It seems X is limited to 1-2 transfers who are "great" or "good" as impactful transfers and then any further transfers are post injury discounts(Nunge, Hunter, Fletcher, Hugely, Fletcher)

Expectations in this NIL period: X will get a very solid guard with 2 years of eligibility and 2-3 forwards who are dependable role players. I really hope X can land an elite post player but I do not expect it.

Miller is a good coach. I think he isn't leaving.

Anyone feel X can land a top 25 transfer recruiting class between now and July?

[Xavier]

I’m not starting a new thread about it right now. My guy says Sean is going to leave. Fresh off off playing two lottery picks, with the second team having maybe 3 future nba guys. After Texas I felt good about him staying, now I think it’s up in air but he will leave

[paulxu]

Amazing we had 5 TO's and they had 14...and we lost by 13.
Can't get out rebounded by 20 though and expect to win.

Got to have a good big guy next year. Would be nice to have a backup also, or big wings.