Xavier Big East BB W-L Records

[XUGRAD80]

I think that since this is the Universities 12th season in the Big East it is time to forget about the success that X had prior to becoming a BE school, and adjust our expectations based only on its history in the Big East. I know that some of you aren't going to like this, but here are the facts...

Overall X is 112-86 coming into the current season (where they now sit at 1-3)

X has had: (conference record only)

4 winning seasons (combined record 54-20)
2013-14 10-8
2015-16 14-4
2017-18 15-3
2022-23 15-5

4 losing seasons (combined record 31-39)
2019-2020 8-10
2020-2021 6-7
2021-2022 8-11
2023-2024 9-11

and 3 seasons of going 9-9 (27-27)

In 11 seasons X has finished .500 or worse in 7 of those seasons and only had a winning season 4 out of 11. (36% of the time)

My conclusion: X is NOT a winning BE program year in and year out and to expect them to be that is to have unrealistic expectations. Like I said, some of the people here aren't going to like that, but numbers don't lie. X is NOT the winning program they were many years ago. Stop living in the past.

Can that change for the better in the future? and if so, How? Discuss......

[GoMuskies]

Is it the right path to accept that we're kind of a shit program now? That seems to be what you're saying. The alternative would be to figure out what turned us into a shit program and fix it pronto.

I prefer the second approach. I don't really know what Xavier University's identity is if the basketball program sucks.

[OTRMUSKIE]

We knew going into the BEAST that X would have bad seasons. The reward is the really good seasons that would come from a great conference. Right now we are in the bad season phase. How do they fix it? You start by removing any evidence that Travis Steele was here. That would be freemantle and maybe Hunter? Yes they have been good for us but at this point I’m looking for answers. Only thing I came up with was Travis Steele leftovers. Is that really the issue? Nope

I think Miller gets next year and that’s it. Another missed dance and it’s time to move on.

[paulxu]

I think many of us (me included) can't really figure out the new landscape.
In the "old" days, players came with the expectation of playing 4 years, and "everybody" thought they could go to the NBA. They needed the 4 years to develop under a good coach, in a school with a winning culture...and if they transferred would lose a year in their quest for the chance to be seen as really good.

In today's environment, with the portal, transfer anytime and NIL (or other) dollars, it's like going to work. If you want to advance there are multiple opportunities to take a chance somewhere else. The culture of a school or program as a necessity are gone. Now it's like any workplace..

It would seem there still should be motivation to be your best. If you want more dollars, or don't want to lose the dollars you got this year, that should be motivation to really succeed at any particular point. Your value in the portal, or trying to get to the "next" level requires you do well now.

Don't really understand why we don't see that desire on the court, game after game. You are only hurting yourself by not giving your all.
The culture and reasons for being at any particular school are long gone.

[Xuperman]

Speaking of facts....Miller has Steele to thank for the ONE season he has looked like he is still can produce a Championship caliber roster. He provided him with Xavier LEGENDS and added only Boum.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2752/season/2023

I never bash Steele like the folks here that use the stupid "tin man" moniker. He was hired with the long standing tradition that has elevated the program to national prominence. He was not ready for the big office. He proved to be way over his head in a myriad of HEAD COACHING skills....but in recruiting he was OUTSTANDING.

This "blame Steele" narrative here for the current lowly state of the program has gotten out of hand....at the very least disingenuous. I believe with a high degree of certainty, that Coach Miller has never blamed TS for ANY of this train wreck. Let alone a "cancer" that will take years to overcome. Yes, there is a undeniable drop in fan confidence directly attributed to the Steele years and Miller has only made that worse.

People here need to stop this ignorant blame game. This programs success is 100% on Sean Miller.

[drudy23]

I think that since this is the Universities 12th season in the Big East it is time to forget about the success that X had prior to becoming a BE school, and adjust our expectations based only on its history in the Big East. I know that some of you aren't going to like this, but here are the facts...

Overall X is 112-86 coming into the current season (where they now sit at 1-3)

X has had: (conference record only)

4 winning seasons (combined record 54-20)
2013-14 10-8
2015-16 14-4
2017-18 15-3
2022-23 15-5

4 losing seasons (combined record 31-39)
2019-2020 8-10
2020-2021 6-7
2021-2022 8-11
2023-2024 9-11

and 3 seasons of going 9-9 (27-27)

In 11 seasons X has finished .500 or worse in 7 of those seasons and only had a winning season 4 out of 11. (36% of the time)

My conclusion: X is NOT a winning BE program year in and year out and to expect them to be that is to have unrealistic expectations. Like I said, some of the people here aren't going to like that, but numbers don't lie. X is NOT the winning program they were many years ago. Stop living in the past.

Can that change for the better in the future? and if so, How? Discuss......

The stats don't lie. We've been average in the Big East. Can't argue that one.

But to say "this is what we are" and to "reset expectations" makes my blood boil.

It shows how quickly things can turn when you make a mistake. And what's worse, it shines a light on a continued decline when changes aren't made quickly enough when things trend this way. I'm not just talking about head coaches, I'm talking about everything.

At X, if you have a season that doesn't live up to expectations, it needs to be nipped in the bud immediately. Plan for changes, demand for improvement, people being held accountable. Living in midwest Cincinnati, those things tend to typically take longer because we're too nice. Those days need to be over.

Who's going to be the catalyst that says enough is enough? 6 out of 7 seasons of this garbage and our AD doesn't seem to be bothered by it, and some of our fans have lowered their expectations as the "new normal" - GTFOH with that s**t.

[GoMuskies]

We've been average in the Big East....since the day Travis Steele was hired. I agree somewhat with Xup in the Steele could definitely recruit at a championship level for the Big East (see Sean Miller's first year back), but the fact that he had no idea what to do with all that talent set the program way back and turned us into an average Big East program. And Miller clearly hasn't figured out the formula for getting us out of the rut (unless he can convince Steele to come back and recruit for him).

There's definitely no reason we need to be an only average Big East program (which might be an upgrade at this point). We just need a coach who can figure out how to put us back where we belong in the current landscape. Maybe Miller is the guy to do it. Or maybe he's going to run off to Miami, and we'll have to find someone else to do it.

[drudy23]

For anyone saying Steele was this amazing recruiter, take a look at the recruits X has brought in since Mack left.

You will be shocked at how few made an impact. It's a glaring problem when you look at the list in totality.

Since 2018, there have been 2!!!! players that have stuck around to make an impact - Free and Colby. Add Swain to the list if he returns next year. That is absurd and shines a SPOTLIGHT on what seems to be the most glaring issue impacting this program.

Talk about wasting your recruiting budget. They've literally wasted 85-90% of these guys. That's insane.

They have all of these fancy metrics and social media stats and graphics to sell the program. How about turning that around on themselves and highlighting the failures to pinpoint areas to fix?

[GoMuskies]

Does he not get credit for Jack Nunge, Des Claude and Adam Kunkel?

The main guys on a Sweet Sixteen team.

[drudy23]

Does he not get credit for Jack Nunge, Des Claude and Adam Kunkel?

The main guys on a Sweet Sixteen team.

High school recruits. Their impact since 2018 has been minimal. That's a devastating stat and kind of embarrassing honestly.

It spotlights an obvious and glaring developmental issue. No program can survive with results that horrendous on the recruiting trail.

I will admit you could probably add Claude to the list - but we couldn't keep him and he only played for 2 years.

[Xuperman]

High school recruits. Their impact since 2018 has been minimal. That's a devastating stat and kind of embarrassing honestly.

It spotlights an obvious and glaring developmental issue. No program can survive with results that horrendous on the recruiting trail.

I will admit you could probably add Claude to the list - but we couldn't keep him and he only played for 2 years.

Yes, it is odd your lack of appreciation for Claude, Nunge, Kunk and Hunter. Basically Scruggs also. Steele was unquestionably an elite recruiter throughout his time at Xavier.

As far as HS talent....how about commenting on the miserable job Miller is doing.

[GoMuskies]

Does it really matter if they came from high school? We had Kunkel for three years.

[XUGRAD80]

If I may rephrase one statement, I would change it to…..

……If we accept NO CHANGES to made in how X operates, and then expect X to be a consistent winning program because “that’s who they are”, then we are not being realistic. Who X was in the period from Stack to Mack has no more bearing on who they are NOW, than the period prior to Stack has.

I feel that X can certainly BECOME a “winning” program, but only by changing how they do things. It must first be stated and accepted that X is NOT a winning program right NOW. Once that realization is made and accepted as truth THEN it is possible to accept the changes that are needed. In order to become a winning program that they were under Stack-Mack, they had to make major changes to how they operated. Back then, they had to make major upgrades in many areas and major changes to how things were done prior to Stack. IMO if X doesn’t make a similar commitment to making upgrades and changes to how they operate NOW, they are not going to be able to compete successfully with the rest of the BE.

I’m not sure that X has the financial assets needed to make the upgrades and changes needed, and/or has the leadership needed to make the RIGHT upgrades and changes. But I hope that they do.

[drudy23]

Does it really matter if they came from high school? We had Kunkel for three years.

What did Kunkel win?

And of course it matters that you have such a low hit rate on your high school recruits. That doesn't matter? What world are we living in where that doesn't matter?

[drudy23]

Steele was unquestionably an elite recruiter throughout his time at Xavier.

There is literally nothing to back this up. What on earth are you even talking about?

90% of his high school recruits didn't even stay, he never went to the tournament, never won 20 games, and got fired. What on earth was elite about his recruiting besides your own personal opinion?

[MHettel]

I heard Book Richardson is available….

[GoMuskies]

He recruited one of our best teams ever that he left for Sean. He just can't coach, obviously. And i agree you can't make a living on one and done transfers, but transfers who stick for three years are basically the equivalent of high school recruits.

[drudy23]

As far as HS talent....how about commenting on the miserable job Miller is doing.

It is miserable, and the trend continues.

Do people really think we're going to be successful buying a new team every year? Alot of people on this board are really grasping at straws trying to rationalize all of this.

How on earth are we saying HS recruitment isn't important?

[Xuperman]

There is literally nothing to back this up. What on earth are you even talking about?

90% of his high school recruits didn't even stay, he never went to the tournament, never won 20 games, and got fired. What on earth was elite about his recruiting besides your own personal opinion?

Track record has to include the Mack years to support his ability to recruit elite talent. Even as a HC it was far an away better than what Miller has done.

Again, Miller's ONLY success was with Steele's guys + Boum.

[drudy23]

Track record has to include the Mack years to support his ability to recruit elite talent. Even as a HC it was far an away better than what Miller has done.

Again, Miller's ONLY success was with Steele's guys + Boum.

So when it was his turn to make the decision on impact players, what happened? 10% of them provided a return.

The head coach sets the pecking order on recruits. There's a huge difference between identifying the talent and landing it. The recruits on his watch were not X or BE caliber, and his roster construction was abysmal.

When has X ever recruited elite talent anyway? Do you even know what that word means? Help me understand how anything during the past 7 years could be considered elite?

[Xville]

Are people seriously defending Steele on here? The guy that literally ruined the program for a decade? Who gives a shit if he could recruit ( people really exaggerate this) , he couldn’t coach himself out of a paper bag.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Does it really matter if they came from high school? We had Kunkel for three years.

Two years I believe.


It is miserable, and the trend continues.

Do people really think we're going to be successful buying a new team every year? Alot of people on this board are really grasping at straws trying to rationalize all of this.

How on earth are we saying HS recruitment isn't important?

No argument from me Drudy. I think GRAD80 just restated it well. If we don't recognize we need to do something, perhaps radically different than we have so far done, we are consigned to more of what we've experienced the last six or seven years. Also, think his questioning of whether current Xavier leadership is up to that task is accurate. I've come around to the idea that any change has to begin with having our current A.D. walk the plank. If it comes to admitting he made two bad coaching hires, I expect Christopher will forestall recognition of that by leaving things in place as long as he can. And in the interim, things will continue to rot.

[drudy23]

Two years I believe.



No argument from me Drudy. I think GRAD80 just restated it well. If we don't recognize we need to do something, perhaps radically different than we have so far done, we are consigned to more of what we've experienced the last six or seven years. Also, think his questioning of whether current Xavier leadership is up to that task is accurate. I've come around to the idea that any change has to begin with having our current A.D. walk the plank. If it comes to admitting he made two bad coaching hires, I expect Christopher will forestall recognition of that by leaving things in place as long as he can. And in the interim, things will continue to rot.

It's impossible to leave this up to the current AD, because him admitting failures will point the finger at himself, and that's not going to happen. No one chops their own head off. He will say whatever's necessary to self-preserve.

The President and Board has to be involved and some tough decisions need to be made. If the new President doesn't see the importance of hoops to this university, it's going to be miserable for the forseeable future, and we'll probably lose Miller if certain things aren't prioritized.

[XUGRAD80]

Stop arguing about a FORMER coach!

Can we just agree that it takes BOTH good recruits AND good coaching? And then figure out how does X get BOTH at the same time?

It really doesn’t solve anything to argue about the ability of a former coach to recruit. The recruiting scene THEN is NOT the same recruiting scene NOW. The NIL has changed how you recruit BOTH high school and transfer players. The real question is….how does X compete moving FORWARD?

[drudy23]

Stop arguing about a FORMER coach!

Can we just agree that it takes BOTH good recruits AND good coaching? And then figure out how does X get BOTH at the same time?

It really doesn’t solve anything to argue about the ability of a former coach to recruit. The recruiting scene THEN is NOT the same recruiting scene NOW. The NIL has changed how you recruit BOTH high school and transfer players. The real question is….how does X compete moving FORWARD?

Then how about people stop saying Steele is an elite anything. He sucked. He sent this program to the brink of the dark ages.

Or that HS recruiting isn't important.

Evaluating how it got here is relevant. Keeping the status quo isn't the answer.

[Xuperman]

Are people seriously defending Steele on here? The guy that literally ruined the program for a decade? Who gives a shit if he could recruit ( people really exaggerate this) , he couldn’t coach himself out of a paper bag.

No, I think it's just me....and solely for the stated reason.

Why don't you go on the record here and insist that Coach Miller must agree with your "decade" of ruin Steele caused?

[drudy23]

It's not Coach Miller's place to agree with it because it's now his problem. This isn't politics where he can just blame the former guy and be on his way. Who wants a coach that just blames the former guy? What does that solve? Steele was awful, but if Miller constantly blamed Steele for his lack of success, I'd have way less respect for him.

But of course it's relevant to the current state of the program.

[Xuperman]

Then how about people stop saying Steele is an elite anything. He sucked. He sent this program to the brink of the dark ages.

Or that HS recruiting isn't important.

Evaluating how it got here is relevant. Keeping the status quo isn't the answer.

Winning the NIT is way north of the dark ages....the reality we are currently living under Miller has us rowing in that direction.

[Xville]

No, I think it's just me....and solely for the stated reason.

Why don't you go on the record here and insist that Coach Miller must agree with your "decade" of ruin Steele caused?


Giving a Steele a pass on anything is a joke. Yes a decade, that’s how much he ruined the program. No one is excusing miller, so get off it.

[drudy23]

Winning the NIT is way north of the dark ages....the reality we are currently living under Miller has us rowing in that direction.

That sounds like the dark ages to me.

[Xville]

Getting back to the original topic before xup decided to derail it, imo X has to get back to what they were once good at. Development and high school recruiting. X should be bringing in 3-4 high school recruits every year and then filling in gaps in the portal, not getting your entire team from it.

[XUGRAD80]

Evaluating how it got here is relevant.

Keeping the status quo isn't the answer.

I can agree with BOTH those statements. BUT I think it’s also important to acknowledge that recruiting in the past is not the same as recruiting is today and certainly not how it will be in the future. X MUST improve its recruiting and IMO that is going to take MORE MONEY being allocated to NIL than is currently being given out by X. Currently X does not appear to have the money in its recruiting/NIL budget to compete against the deep pockets of schools like UConn.

However, I also question how X has spent money on upgrading Cintas. Is X going to get any more fans to attend games because of the changes made there?Are those new bars going to put more money into the BB budget? Are the upgrades in practice facilities going to improve the recruiting as much as an upgrade to NIL might? If we acknowledge that recruiting has to improve (which I think is pretty obvious, even while acknowledging that injures have had a major effect on the roster), what changes need to be made there? Personal? Budget? Approach? All? Others?

Changes to staff? Changes to coaching? Changes to administration? Some? All? More?

Nothing should be off the board at this point.

Or should we just accept that X will never again be a dominant program and a consistent Sweet 16 caliper team?

[drudy23]

Nothing should be off the board at this point.


Correct.

[drudy23]

Or should we just accept that X will never again be a dominant program and a consistent Sweet 16 caliper team?

Never.

[Xville]

From all I’ve heard and been told, x’s nil is fine. The problem
Is that x can’t continue to get their whole team from the portal. Have to start home growing talent and spending the nil there while simultaneously filling in gaps in the portal.

UConn has filled in some gaps with the portal but most of their talent grew up thru the program. Marquette has done zero portal shopping to my knowledge. I think the only problem with our nil is the way x is spending it. What was the point in giving money to Maddox?

[Xavier]

Mack built some top big east teams. I thought we were on the way to being a top two team in the BE. I think we were. Mack left, and Steele took over. As a first time coach in the Big East he had some leeway. But it’s undeniable he was head of the program when he set us way back. He turned X into a program with no identity and we’ve never gotten one back. Bringing Miller back was a bolt of energy the program needed. Year 1 looked like one of the best teams in the country. It was refreshing.

It’s also a reminder of what the program could and should be. Nothing beats top 15 matchup at the Cintas. I think Sean is great for the program, and he can build us back. I think beyond anything, recruiting and emphasizing defense/rebounding is the way forward. If it comes from portal or HS, I don’t care. But that was Sean’s bread and butter first run at X. Toughness is in his blood. And the program needs Toughness back. It is going to be hard to match what top programs Chase in portal (mostly offensive guys) so maybe zig while others zag.

[drudy23]

These are the things, imo, that are most glaring and need to get fixed asap. These are the heavy hitters:

1) Recruit vs portal balance - you have to be pretty good at both. X can't re-buy a team every year and maintain success
2) Retention and development of high school recruits - their track record since 2018 is abysmal and embarrassing
3) Quality post players - there needs to be at least 2 quality starters and 2 developmental projects in the frontcourt within the program at all times. You cannot win in the BE without a formidable post presence

These are the 3 I'd put the most emphasis on, and anything and everything to get these 3 things better should be on the table.

[MHettel]

Getting back to the original topic before xup decided to derail it, imo X has to get back to what they were once good at. Development and high school recruiting. X should be bringing in 3-4 high school recruits every year and then filling in gaps in the portal, not getting your entire team from it.

I would like to understand exactly how this approach will work. Is the plan to just recruit a kid and tell him that he may not get any meaningful PT for a couple years because we’ve got 6 returning players, 2 transfers in and 3 other freshmen? Is THAT the plan?

Why would any recruit go somewhere where they may not be able to contribute immediately. How would they maximize their NIL? Do we just throw money at them and ask them to sit their turn? Good luck with that!

[MHettel]

From all I’ve heard and been told, x’s nil is fine. The problem
Is that x can’t continue to get their whole team from the portal. Have to start home growing talent and spending the nil there while simultaneously filling in gaps in the portal.

UConn has filled in some gaps with the portal but most of their talent grew up thru the program. Marquette has done zero portal shopping to my knowledge. I think the only problem with our nil is the way x is spending it. What was the point in giving money to Maddox?

Weren’t you defending the decision to bring in Roddy Anderson, give him NIL and then let him redshirt? That makes ZERO sense to me.

[Xavier]

I would like to understand exactly how this approach will work. Is the plan to just recruit a kid and tell him that he may not get any meaningful PT for a couple years because we’ve got 6 returning players, 2 transfers in and 3 other freshmen? Is THAT the plan?

Why would any recruit go somewhere where they may not be able to contribute immediately. How would they maximize their NIL? Do we just throw money at them and ask them to sit their turn? Good luck with that!

Go look and see what Marquette brings in from the portal. Or Purdue. You have to build a culture. That’s how. It’s doable, some of the best teams in the country do it.

[drudy23]

I would like to understand exactly how this approach will work. Is the plan to just recruit a kid and tell him that he may not get any meaningful PT for a couple years because we’ve got 6 returning players, 2 transfers in and 3 other freshmen? Is THAT the plan?

Why would any recruit go somewhere where they may not be able to contribute immediately. How would they maximize their NIL? Do we just throw money at them and ask them to sit their turn? Good luck with that!

That's where the balance comes in with recruit vs. transfer.

If you are constantly recruiting over your preferred HS recruits, why would they ever stay? Transfers have to supplement the identity, not the other way around.

Jonathan Powell is a great example. He's likely making mistakes as a freshman, but you can see the potential. You have to let some of these young guys play through adversity to enable the growth you're looking for.

What freshman is going to be great on the defensive end? Likely none of them - but you can't just be a hard ass and sit them all year for it, especially if they are a key piece of your future. These preferred recruits have to be given the opportunity early and often.

[MHettel]

Go look and see what Marquette brings in from the portal. Or Purdue. You have to build a culture. That’s how. It’s doable, some of the best teams in the country do it.

In my mind, we haven’t even reached the full impact of the NIL and Portal. Its not an overnight thing where all teams suddenly adopt a complete strategy for how to use the portal and take advantage of the NIL strategy.

It’s kinda like Netflix taking out Blockbuster. It took YEARS.

Marquette and Purdue are actually starting with a full roster of homegrown players, and have not embraced the portal as much as others…..due in part to a lack of need. I have no idea about the NIL, but I’m assuming you have to pay the guys so they DONT leave.

BECOMING Marquette or Purdue in this environment will be nearly impossible. How do you get that first “bumper crop” of Freshmen and have minutes available without being willing to just suck for awhile. And how do you recruit the next years class when your team was awful the prior year.

Kids want Money. kids want to Play. kids want to win.

Tell me how you offer ALL of those things from the position that we are in.

Side note…..Shaka is a really good coach. He’s got a style that lets players go all out and it relies on athleticism and effort. Miller has this rigid system that is intolerant of any mistakes. That breaks kids.

Although McKnight seems to foul a 3 point shooter about every other game and has yet to see the bench….

[Xville]

IMO it’s not that hard. You recruit 2-3 freshmen a year, you play them if they are worth a shit. You pay them.
You do that every single year. You then fill in the gaps with the portal. It’s not rocket science.

Creighton does it, UConn does it, Marquette etc. this is the way

[waggy]

Maybe I'm just getting soft in my older age, but I think you all are bunch of drama queens.

[Xuperman]

IMO it’s not that hard. You recruit 2-3 freshmen a year, you play them if they are worth a shit. You pay them.
You do that every single year. You then fill in the gaps with the portal. It’s not rocket science.

Creighton does it, UConn does it, Marquette etc. this is the way

Well apparently it is for Miller. It has been 3 off seasons and he has shown virtually no willingness, ability or success doing it.

Prior to Miller, X always had multiple guys committed that were playing their senior season in HS at this time of year. Does Miller have anyone doing that? Can someone post any info on incoming frosh for next fall?

[Xville]

Well apparently it is for Miller. It has been 3 off seasons and he has shown virtually no willingness, ability or success doing it.

Prior to Miller, X always had multiple guys committed that were playing their senior season in HS at this time of year. Does Miller have anyone coming in?

A simple Google search would answer that for you. As drudy pointed
Out, our freshmen recruiting has been abysmal since 18. Weve had two worth anything.

[drudy23]

Well apparently it is for Miller. It has been 3 off seasons and he has shown virtually no willingness, ability or success doing it.

Prior to Miller, X always had multiple guys committed that were playing their senior season in HS at this time of year. Does Miller have anyone coming in?

Two guys coming in next year.

But neither solve the frontcourt problem.

I think most are really frustrated because they see the present and also realize that, unless we catch lightning in a bottle with a transfer group, we're in for a multi-year rebuild of the identity.

I'm so tired of being a sports fan in this city. Everything has turned into wait and hope. And then that usually turns into more wait and hope.

[waggy]

Looking at X's 4 best players, they're at least on par with any in the BE.

[drudy23]

Looking at X's 4 best players, they're at least on par with any in the BE.

Not in the frontcourt. Free is, but not even close after that. You can't win consistently in the Big East with a very limited frontcourt and virtually zero bulk and rim protection. We have ZERO rim protection.

[waggy]

Not in the frontcourt. Free is, but not even close after that. You can't win consistently in the Big East with a very limited frontcourt and virtually zero bulk and rim protection. We have ZERO rim protection.

Well Duh, The guy got hurt.

[drudy23]

Well Duh, The guy got hurt.

With fall off a cliff depth behind him. Let's not pretend he was Ryan Kalkbrenner.

Needed for this roster, yes - similar to the best bigs in the league? Stop.

I'd put Free up there, and probably Conwell. Who else is the top at their position in this conference?

McKnight has had a noticeable regression.

As a collection of talent, we are under-performing if I'm being honest. But at the same time, only Free is likely to be considered a 1st or 2nd team selection.

We're good enough to not be this bad, which I'm guessing you'd agree with.

[waggy]

With fall off a cliff depth behind him. Let's not pretend he was Ryan Kalkbrenner.

Needed for this roster, yes - similar to the best bigs in the league? Stop.

But we don't know. Even if X's NIL is competitive, it still has a limit. Sean can't afford any/everyone. I'm sure compromises have to be made.

[noteggs]

That's where the balance comes in with recruit vs. transfer.

If you are constantly recruiting over your preferred HS recruits, why would they ever stay? Transfers have to supplement the identity, not the other way around.

Jonathan Powell is a great example. He's likely making mistakes as a freshman, but you can see the potential. You have to let some of these young guys play through adversity to enable the growth you're looking for.

What freshman is going to be great on the defensive end? Likely none of them - but you can't just be a hard ass and sit them all year for it, especially if they are a key piece of your future. These preferred recruits have to be given the opportunity early and often.

100% this on portal vs recruits. We went 0 to 60 in 2 seconds on the portal deal. Hopefully the two recruits coming in next year will eliminate the temptation to go all in on the portal.

[waggy]

I'd put Free up there, and probably Conwell. Who else is the top at their position in this conference?

McKnight has had a noticeable regression.

As a collection of talent, we are under-performing if I'm being honest. But at the same time, only Free is likely to be considered a 1st or 2nd team selection.

We're good enough to not be this bad, which I'm guessing you'd agree with.

McKnight is a top 5 pg I would think.
Foster/Swain is a very nice combo at the 3. Where they would rank I don't know.

The other thing is we lost at least 2 games we should have won. And against Gtown, Foster and Maddox were like 0 for 7 from 3.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

McKnight is a top 5 pg I would think.
Foster/Swain is a very nice combo at the 3. Where they would rank I don't know.

The other thing is we lost at least 2 games we should have won. And against Gtown, Foster and Maddox were like 0 for 7 from 3.

And so your point is...................?

[waggy]

And so your point is...................?

That the top 4 collectively is as good as the rest of the BE, and only a center is missing.

[MHettel]

IMO it’s not that hard. You recruit 2-3 freshmen a year, you play them if they are worth a shit. You pay them.
You do that every single year. You then fill in the gaps with the portal. It’s not rocket science.

Creighton does it, UConn does it, Marquette etc. this is the way

So what do you do next year, Mr. Know-it-all? It’s gonna take 5 years for that approach to yield what is essentially a full stable of homegrown talent. Who’s got 5 years to wait? Is this Millers 5 year plan? Is it YOUR 5 year plan?

You mention it like “yeah, what’s the big deal”. And it’s a fine idea. But it cannot be executed upon in a reasonable amount of time.

[MHettel]

That the top 4 collectively is as good as the rest of the BE, and only a center is missing.

I’d say our top 4 guys are right at about the midpoint in the BE. Kinda where the program is right now.

[Xville]

So what do you do next year, Mr. Know-it-all? It’s gonna take 5 years for that approach to yield what is essentially a full stable of homegrown talent. Who’s got 5 years to wait? Is this Millers 5 year plan? Is it YOUR 5 year plan?

You mention it like “yeah, what’s the big deal”. And it’s a fine idea. But it cannot be executed upon in a reasonable amount of time.

Why you continue to be so aggressive with everything I post is something. I never claim to be a know it all. I see what other programs are doing..some that are like x doing it. So it can be done here.


Yes, it’s going to take a bit to fully execute. Hopefully next year is the start of it, and then you build from there. Every year get less reliant on the portal.

Next year assuming everyone that has eligibility stays, we have 8 guys already in rotation including the two freshmen.

Nyk
Forsythe
Swain
Conwell
Anderson
Traore
Hugley
Fletcher

Spend any nil money on another frontcourt player, allow those two freshmen to develop.

[MHettel]

Why you continue to be so aggressive with everything I post is something. I never claim to be a know it all. I see what other programs are doing..some that are like x doing it. So it can be done here.


Yes, it’s going to take a bit to fully execute. Hopefully next year is the start of it, and then you build from there. Every year get less reliant on the portal.

Next year assuming everyone that has eligibility stays, we have 8 guys already in rotation including the two freshmen.

Nyk
Forsythe
Swain
Conwell
Anderson
Traore
Hugley
Fletcher

Spend any nil money on another frontcourt player, allow those two freshmen to develop.

Really? You look at that as a core to just put some pieces around? Traore is defense only basically and who knows how he will do at this level. I’ve seen enough of Hugely to have no expectations that he will even be here next year. Roddy Anderson can’t shoot, maybe he’ll figure it out….maybe not. Conwell is decent, but not a star type of guy. Swain has his moments, but he is far from being a well rounded college contributor.

Fletcher is an unknown but worth keeping in the mix.

A key point that I’ve brought up twice but hasn’t garnered much response is that this year we will be having all of the 5th year Covid guys AND all of the regular 4th year guys graduating. Usually it’s around 25% of the players moving on and then the next batch of freshmen come along. I’d guess it going to be closer to around 35% of all players exhausting their eligibility. That not only means a larger incoming freshman class (not necessarily a good thing, as the incremental guys wouldn’t normally have even been in D1), but it also means the transfer market is going to be TIGHT. A whole lot of spots to fill with a fewer number of guys to fill them. A true “sellers market” if you are a guy like Conwell or Swain. The market will overpay to get those guys, which means we’ll need to overpay to keep them. Worst time EVER to be in our position.

[Xville]

Really? You look at that as a core to just put some pieces around? Traore is defense only basically and who knows how he will do at this level. I’ve seen enough of Hugely to have no expectations that he will even be here next year. Roddy Anderson can’t shoot, maybe he’ll figure it out….maybe not. Conwell is decent, but not a star type of guy. Swain has his moments, but he is far from being a well rounded college contributor.

Fletcher is an unknown but worth keeping in the mix.

A key point that I’ve brought up twice but hasn’t garnered much response is that this year we will be having all of the 5th year Covid guys AND all of the regular 4th year guys graduating. Usually it’s around 25% of the players moving on and then the next batch of freshmen come along. I’d guess it going to be closer to around 35% of all players exhausting their eligibility. That not only means a larger incoming freshman class (not necessarily a good thing, as the incremental guys wouldn’t normally have even been in D1), but it also means the transfer market is going to be TIGHT. A whole lot of spots to fill with a fewer number of guys to fill them. A true “sellers market” if you are a guy like Conwell or Swain. The market will overpay to get those guys, which means we’ll need to overpay to keep them. Worst time EVER to be in our position.

Yes it’s a core to build around.


Anderson
Conwell
Swain
Traore


As I said, need to spend the nil money on another frontcourt player.

Allow the freshmen to develop and be in the rotation. I see zero need to get more than two portal guys if everyone stays. 3 if you wanna replace hugley

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Really? You look at that as a core to just put some pieces around? Traore is defense only basically and who knows how he will do at this level. I’ve seen enough of Hugely to have no expectations that he will even be here next year. Roddy Anderson can’t shoot, maybe he’ll figure it out….maybe not. Conwell is decent, but not a star type of guy. Swain has his moments, but he is far from being a well rounded college contributor.

Fletcher is an unknown but worth keeping in the mix.

A key point that I’ve brought up twice but hasn’t garnered much response is that this year we will be having all of the 5th year Covid guys AND all of the regular 4th year guys graduating. Usually it’s around 25% of the players moving on and then the next batch of freshmen come along. I’d guess it going to be closer to around 35% of all players exhausting their eligibility. That not only means a larger incoming freshman class (not necessarily a good thing, as the incremental guys wouldn’t normally have even been in D1), but it also means the transfer market is going to be TIGHT. A whole lot of spots to fill with a fewer number of guys to fill them. A true “sellers market” if you are a guy like Conwell or Swain. The market will overpay to get those guys, which means we’ll need to overpay to keep them. Worst time EVER to be in our position.

Miller went all-in at Portal Roulette. I guess he was trying to get us back to March Madness and garner enough attention for the program to help next year's recruiting effort win in the more competitive environment you anticipate.

Instead, we seem headed for another year of obscurity which will make recruiting harder, not easier. Technically speaking, we could be f***ed again.

[MHettel]

Why you continue to be so aggressive with everything I post is something. I never claim to be a know it all.

Wow. What a trap you just waltzed into. Remember this gem from the Marquette game. Part of your little toddler meltdown…

”My question is don’t ever question my fandom or my knowledge of the game. Fuck you. That’s my point. You don’t know shit.

Did you miss your nap that day?

Child

[Xville]

Wow. What a trap you just waltzed into. Remember this gem from the Marquette game. Part of your little toddler meltdown…

”My question is don’t ever question my fandom or my knowledge of the game. Fuck you. That’s my point. You don’t know shit.

Did you miss your nap that day?

Child

Yes, and you had started it. Just like you’re trying to now

[MHettel]

Miller went all-in at Portal Roulette. I guess he was trying to get us back to March Madness and garner enough attention for the program to help next year's recruiting effort win in the more competitive environment you anticipate.

Instead, we seem headed for another year of obscurity which will make recruiting harder, not easier. Technically speaking, we could be f***ed again.

Oh he definitely went all in as you said, and yeah if all went as planned we’d go deep and get a recruiting bounce from the extra attention and deep NCAA run. I get it.

But going all in also has its risks. One injury, a couple portal misses and a handful of returners that haven’t seemed to improve has put us in a vulnerable position. How do you recruit to this disaster

If you are a HS senior, did you even follow college basketball in 2018 when we were a 1 seed? We’re not exactly “trending”

[MHettel]

Yes, and you had started it. Just like you’re trying to now

Here is what I find is really odd. I go at it with you.

But you seem to go at it with like 4-5 different guys.

Maybe it’s you?

[Xville]

Here is what I find is really odd. I go at it with you.

But you seem to go at it with like 4-5 different guys.

Maybe it’s you?

Move on buddy

[paulxu]

I wonder if this is the earliest we've ever started talking about "next year."

[MHettel]

Move on buddy

I think you just need a peanut butter sandwich with no crust and a couple of episodes of Builder Bob. Someday you may grow into and adult that doesn’t meltdown over a game and go around the internet battling everyone.

[Xville]

I think you just need a peanut butter sandwich with no crust and a couple of episodes of Builder Bob. Someday you may grow into and adult that doesn’t meltdown over a game and go around the internet battling everyone.

Who has been in the adult in this situation?

[Xavier]

Yes it’s a core to build around.


Anderson
Conwell
Swain
Traore


As I said, need to spend the nil money on another frontcourt player.

Allow the freshmen to develop and be in the rotation. I see zero need to get more than two portal guys if everyone stays. 3 if you wanna replace hugley

There’s a massive increase in NIL money for this upcoming year. I’d guess they go heavy for front court players/depth as well as another play maker. I know it’s not the route most want, but I anticipate being pretty active with the increase in NIL. Though maybe they hold some of it for some freshman bigs. As drudy points out, it’s been atrocious not having that. Traore got hurt but we need to build that out.

That might be the better way to move forward with bigs. Attack them hard out of HS, easier to identify and snag capable guard play through portal. But the lack of bigs, thru injury or otherwise, has been the major thing holding the team back

[XUGRAD80]

But the lack of bigs, thru injury or otherwise, has been the major thing holding the team back

I agree with this completely. Especially with them playing in the Big East where there are quality bigs on almost every team. I was very happy to see X get Hugley, but he was supposed to be someone that would not be counted on until next year. T was supposed to be the starter this year, but they never did land a real backup that they could expect to get use out of THIS year. Let’s say that T never got hurt but turned out to be foul prone, or just got into foul trouble in a key game. What was the plan for that? It seems that the only plan was to rely on Free to stay healthy and have him slide into that position as needed. As other have said, and I agree with it, you need several big bodies on your squad if you hope to deal with the physicality of the BE. 1-2 is not enough.

IMO, moving forward job 1 is to increase the center/power forward depth and ability. An additional experienced transfer AND a high school recruit are BOTH needed.

[drudy23]

But the lack of bigs, thru injury or otherwise, has been the major thing holding the team back

You could argue this is the case since Steele took over. He recruited nothing but guards and finesse wings.

No beef, no muscle. If Sean wants toughness to be an identity, why isn't he prioritizing this type of player?

When's the last time this program landed an impactful power forward or center in the recruiting pipeline? They don't even seem to go after them.

[Xville]

There’s a massive increase in NIL money for this upcoming year. I’d guess they go heavy for front court players/depth as well as another play maker. I know it’s not the route most want, but I anticipate being pretty active with the increase in NIL. Though maybe they hold some of it for some freshman bigs. As drudy points out, it’s been atrocious not having that. Traore got hurt but we need to build that out.

That might be the better way to move forward with bigs. Attack them hard out of HS, easier to identify and snag capable guard play through portal. But the lack of bigs, thru injury or otherwise, has been the major thing holding the team back

Yeah I don’t mind if we use the portal, imo just don’t need to use it outside of a 4 and a 5 for next year. Get 2-3 more of them and spend the money there. Let nyk and forsythe develop and be in the rotation. That’s my hope anyways.

I’m tired of x being charmin soft, it’s been a consistent theme for years now

[Xavier]

When's the last time this program landed an impactful power forward or center in the recruiting pipeline? They don't even seem to go after them.

I thought Miles was a decent project. Tall athletic player. In that regard I thought the kid who went to Penn State had something I liked. Really athletic, could turn into a defender/rebounder his Jr/Sr year. Neither jump off the page as “trying to get” impact bigs. I’d give someone like Miles a chance every year or two.