More NIL fun!

[MHettel]

This had to happen.

Six former Florida State players are suing Coach Leonard Hamilton over non-payment of 250K each related to NIL promised.

Cam’ron Fletcher is one of the plaintiffs.

[xubrew]

https://www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-wildcats/news/former-wildcat-camron-fletcher-among-six-florida-state-players-nil-lawsuit-leonard-hamilton/

[Xavier]

Smart by the players. My recommendation is to simply pay the players what you promise. Pretty simple

[Xville]

Was there ever a written contract? If not, I don’t know how they win this

[94GRAD]

Was there ever a written contract? If not, I don’t know how they win this

I don't think there are any contracts, but supposedly there are text messages with them and Hamilton promising them the money. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know how that will stand up in court.

[xubrew]

I don't think there are any contracts, but supposedly there are text messages with them and Hamilton promising them the money. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know how that will stand up in court.

There are many other examples of this. Players being told they’ll receive money and then not receiving it, or not getting as much as they were promised.

The opposite has also happened. Players were given money to perform some sort of “work” (signing autographs, or being in a commercial, or whatever) and then they never did the work.

So…this one is interesting!!

[94GRAD]

There are many other examples of this. Players being told they’ll receive money and then not receiving it, or not getting as much as they were promised.

The opposite has also happened. Players were given money to perform some sort of “work” (signing autographs, or being in a commercial, or whatever) and then they never did the work.

So…this one is interesting!!

After talking with my college roommate who is a lawyer, as long as they have text messages promising the money, they will win. They can claim they would have gone to another school for their offer, but choose FSU because of the 250K promise from Leonard and his Associates.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Not a lawyer, but I took business law as part of my accounting degree. My understanding is that in most states $500 is the oral contract dollar limit. There are some exceptions to it so one would have to speak with a real lawyer. There would need to be consideration between the parties as well. I am curious how texting would play into contracts being in writing.

Quick google search says yes texts can be considered written contracts if certain conditions are met. Very interesting, makes you wonder if some coaches to get players just make promises they hope they can deliver.

[paulxu]

Sounds like the big donors weren't happy with the 17-10 (10-10) ACC record, and decided they didn't get their money's worth.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Sounds like the big donors weren't happy with the 17-10 (10-10) ACC record, and decided they didn't get their money's worth.

Also possible that the quality of play on the court was a result of a lack of compensation. Answer is probably a little of both, court will bring out what happened here. If Hamilton faked the "business men", that will come out. If they are real and made promises they couldn't deliver that will as well.

[xubrew]

Also possible that the quality of play on the court was a result of a lack of compensation. Answer is probably a little of both, court will bring out what happened here. If Hamilton faked the "business men", that will come out. If they are real and made promises they couldn't deliver that will as well.

Or it will be settled out of court and none of it will come out.

[bjf123]

Or it will be settled out of court and none of it will come out.

While I’m guessing this will be settled out of court , I’d love to see a full blown trial to expose some of how NIL works, or doesn’t work.


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[ArizonaXUGrad]

How does this get settled?

Either the businessmen pay or Hamilton pays? I can't see it any other way. Did the players sue the businessmen? I don't think I read that in the article I saw. If Hamilton is forced to pay does this mean coaches are on the hook for NIL deals?

[xubrew]

How does this get settled?

Either the businessmen pay or Hamilton pays? I can't see it any other way. Did the players sue the businessmen? I don't think I read that in the article I saw. If Hamilton is forced to pay does this mean coaches are on the hook for NIL deals?

The same way all civil matters get settled. Rather than the players risk getting nothing, they'll be willing to take some of it. Rather than Hamilton risk having to pay all of it, he (and probably the businessmen) will agree to pay them some of it. The terms of the agreement won't be disclosed.

[Xville]

Revenue share is in. Nil is mostly out:

https://sports.yahoo.com/with-nil-era-ending-college-sports-is-on-verge-of-seismic-change-how-will-schools-adapt-with-industry-in-upheaval-154722732.html

[drudy23]

Revenue share is in. Nil is mostly out:

https://sports.yahoo.com/with-nil-era-ending-college-sports-is-on-verge-of-seismic-change-how-will-schools-adapt-with-industry-in-upheaval-154722732.html

This is exactly what I mean when I say this as a broader opportunity to improve outside of the basketball program.

The ADs that are best able to pivot and navigate this new world are the programs that are going to have a leg up. Do we have that person who has a vision for change? Or are the X administrators stuck in "The Xavier Way".

I'm not saying The Xavier Way is bad, but you have to evaluate continuing legacy practice when things shift in the marketplace so drastically. To me, that falls square on the President/AD, and you need someone with a new vision in a new world. It's the President's job to get the right AD at the helm for the most success.

[Xville]

This is exactly what I mean when I say this as a broader opportunity to improve outside of the basketball program.

The ADs that are best able to pivot and navigate this new world are the programs that are going to have a leg up. Do we have that person who has a vision for change? Or are the X administrators stuck in "The Xavier Way".

I'm not saying The Xavier Way is bad, but you have to evaluate continuing legacy practice when things shift in the marketplace so drastically. To me, that falls square on the AD, and you need an AD with a new vision in a new world.

I think it even goes up a level higher. WTH is Val Ackerman doing to ensure that the big East conference remains competitive in this brand new world?

[drudy23]

I think it even goes up a level higher. WTH is Val Ackerman doing to ensure that the big East conference remains competitive in this brand new world?

For sure. Great point.

[bleedXblue]

So, I didn't read the entire article. What revenue are they sharing? Who decides the revenue amount? Is there going to be a cap and then it still sounds like NIL can be paid on TOP? How is any of this good news or a cleaning up of the current landscape?

[bjf123]

It will take a few more years, and a lot of lawsuits, to see where it all ends up. The article certainly hints at schools already trying to come up with ways around the new NIL rules.


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[drudy23]

So, I didn't read the entire article. What revenue are they sharing? Who decides the revenue amount? Is there going to be a cap and then it still sounds like NIL can be paid on TOP? How is any of this good news or a cleaning up of the current landscape?

I think it probably makes things muddier honestly.

I don't dig into the details because it's not my job to figure out the nuances, but I would expect that they'd want an AD at the forefront of what's next. To me, this is one of the most crucial things to get done that can impact the off-the-floor trajectory of the basketball program.

It's why you can't point the entire finger at Miller. His colleagues need to provide a success path for many of the athletic programs. It's time for the university to shit or get off the pot.

I would also venture to guess that this path is ultimately what keeps or pushes away Coach Miller.

[Xville]

So, I didn't read the entire article. What revenue are they sharing? Who decides the revenue amount? Is there going to be a cap and then it still sounds like NIL can be paid on TOP? How is any of this good news or a cleaning up of the current landscape?

So just a recap:

--Beginning next year 20.5 million can be distributed from the school to the student athletes...thats 20.5 for all sports. Most of course will go to the two main sports, Football and Basketball. In the example given, Ohio State plans to give about 13-16 to football with 2-4 to basketball. The remaining pennies will go to the other sports.

--That 20.5 is absolutely capped. Anything beyond that number will have to be a true NIL opportunity and approved thru a clearinghouse that is set up outside of the NCAA. Anything over $600 will have to be approved by that clearinghouse to ensure it is a real opportunity and that it represents "fair market value." Whatever the heck that means.

---The question then is how is that value determined and will it uphold in court if someone challenges it? My guess, it probably doesn't hold up in court.

All of this to me seems like a try at regulating the system, but not sure it is going to work.

My question is what are conferences outside of the big 4 doing to combat this? Are the big east institutions able to directly pay players? How much? What is Val doing to ensure sponsorship opportunities for member institutions so that they can remain competitve in the landscape of college basketball? What is our dork AD doing? I haven't seen anything from either one of them unless i have missed something?

[drudy23]

My question is what are conferences outside of the big 4 doing to combat this? Are the big east institutions able to directly pay players? How much? What is Val doing to ensure sponsorship opportunities for member institutions so that they can remain competitve in the landscape of college basketball? What is our dork AD doing? I haven't seen anything from either one of them unless i have missed something?

This strategy, and how X implements it, will have a huge impact on the trajectory of the program and the conference. They have to get this right, and I'll take it even further, take some calculated risks to test some new models. Who is the right person to lead this initiative over the next decade at X? I have no idea, but it seems really important to get it right, maybe moreso than the basketball coach.

Big decisions needed. And I don't think standing pat gets the job done. I guess we will see.

[XU_Lou]

I didn't read the Yahoo dissertation, but it didn't seem to address schools outside of the Power 4.

* If BE schools (and others) are going to get the same $20.5M cut, that will bode extremely well for b-ball only schools. However, I doubt that will happen. Will we get a cut similar to what the P4 schools will allocate towards b-ball? Seems possible.

* There's also the very strong possibility that this is the first cut to divide the haves from the have-nots. This will be devastating for b-ball as we know it. Anyone else seeing this scenario playing out?

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

I didn't read the Yahoo dissertation, but it didn't seem to address schools outside of the Power 4.

* If BE schools (and others) are going to get the same $20.5M cut, that will bode extremely well for b-ball only schools. However, I doubt that will happen. Will we get a cut similar to what the P4 schools will allocate towards b-ball? Seems possible.

* There's also the very strong possibility that this is the first cut to divide the haves from the have-nots. This will be devastating for b-ball as we know it. Anyone else seeing this scenario playing out?

I only am familiar with the basics of NIL. I understand what you are saying in your first comment. Could you elaborate on your second point above?

[xukeith]

This strategy, and how X implements it, will have a huge impact on the trajectory of the program and the conference. They have to get this right, and I'll take it even further, take some calculated risks to test some new models. Who is the right person to lead this initiative over the next decade at X? I have no idea, but it seems really important to get it right, maybe moreso than the basketball coach.

Big decisions needed. And I don't think standing pat gets the job done. I guess we will see.

Won't the majority of the BE teams have some new position at their university to handle all this money stuff?

[xudash]

So just a recap:

--Beginning next year 20.5 million can be distributed from the school to the student athletes...thats 20.5 for all sports. Most of course will go to the two main sports, Football and Basketball. In the example given, Ohio State plans to give about 13-16 to football with 2-4 to basketball. The remaining pennies will go to the other sports.

--That 20.5 is absolutely capped. Anything beyond that number will have to be a true NIL opportunity and approved thru a clearinghouse that is set up outside of the NCAA. Anything over $600 will have to be approved by that clearinghouse to ensure it is a real opportunity and that it represents "fair market value." Whatever the heck that means.

---The question then is how is that value determined and will it uphold in court if someone challenges it? My guess, it probably doesn't hold up in court.

All of this to me seems like a try at regulating the system, but not sure it is going to work.

My question is what are conferences outside of the big 4 doing to combat this? Are the big east institutions able to directly pay players? How much? What is Val doing to ensure sponsorship opportunities for member institutions so that they can remain competitve in the landscape of college basketball? What is our dork AD doing? I haven't seen anything from either one of them unless i have missed something?

Thanks for this recap.

I really wouldn't get overly concerned about the notion that Xavier's leadership doesn't have its eyes all over this or that the Big East isn't watching it closely. The odds of this not making it onto the conference's spring meeting agenda stand at about 0%.

I do like the amount of oxygen that football consumes in all this. IF Ohio State, as a very good example, is looking to allocate $2 million to $4 million to basketball, we'll survive in that environment, so long as the NIL side finds some sanity, which probably won't happen for a while still. BTW, surviving is the floor, thriving will come with managing through all of this more effectively as a number of you have pointed out.

Not to state a too obvious point, but keep in mind that some measure of FREE CASH FLOW will be what is distributed, not REVENUE - you have to be able to afford the distribution. Now, FCF may end up involving student fees for some programs, but that can only carry certain schools so far.

Our media increase will certainly help with all of this, although that funding could have gone into facilities improvements for other sports, or other athletic requirements.

Imagine UC wrestling with remaining competitive in football (i.e. there is no "P4"; there is a P2 and a couple of subordinated conferences). Imagine UC wrestling with football, while still having to keep basketball viable. What will VD do - attempt to increase its ticket prices for it's putrid home schedule in order to keep up with all of this?

[waggy]

An idea that’s been in my head is the BE should help the players start a union. Every player has to sign on to union. Players accrue years toward a retirement fund, insurance, etc. In this manner the conference could collectively bargain with the union. Have a minimum pay scale, and possibly a max (though that would be harder).

[XUGRAD80]

I heard the UC athletic director speak to the question of how BB only schools might have an actual advantage, last summer. He admitted that was a real possibility. However he also pointed out that just because a school can, per the rules, spend 20 million, that doesn’t mean they will. In many cases they just aren’t going to have that much money to spend. I think that UC is certainly in that group and we know that X is for sure. I would guess that X already has personal and plans in place to deal with the new reality.

My biggest concern isn’t how does X compete with schools that are following the rules. My concern is about the schools (or boosters) that will break the rules. The same concern I’ve had for years.

[Xavier]

Yeah. None of the schools were breaking rules prior to NIL, which is why X was able to play with the big boys.

[XUGRAD80]

Yeah. None of the schools were breaking rules prior to NIL, which is why X was able to play with the big boys.

The point I was trying to make is that they can make the $# what ever they want. There’s no guarantee that some won’t just ignore the rules. So I’m not really that concerned about how they set up the NCAA rules. Some will just ignore it, but I don’t think X can afford to do that, even if they chose to do so.

X able to “play with the big boys”? 4 conference winning seasons in 11 since joining the BE. One conference co-championship. No final 4. No top recruiting classes. It’s one thing to play with them, it’s another to actually beat them. It takes top players to win championships and it’s going to be really hard for X to win bidding wars against schools with unlimited payroll.

[Xavier]

I was meaning it didn’t stop X from rising to a top 20-25 program in the A10. But they did go on to win the big east and manage a 1 seed and a 2 seed pre NIL and just regular cheating that you’re referring to. I just don’t consider it an excuse for not returning to a top 20 type program they were before.

[XU_Lou]

I only am familiar with the basics of NIL. I understand what you are saying in your first comment. Could you elaborate on your second point above?

Basically, something along these lines is what I fear as a possibility:


My take on the latest move by the Power 5

The Impact of Power 5’s Breakaway on the Big East

The Power 5 conferences are pushing toward a break from the NCAA, proposing a $20 million revenue-sharing cap, with a suggested $7 million allocation for basketball teams. This move gives Power 5 schools a significant advantage in recruiting, as they can offer both guaranteed revenue-sharing payments and lucrative NIL deals. This financial disparity could destabilize smaller programs in conferences like the Big East, particularly those without the resources to compete.

While the Big East’s top programs, like UConn, could potentially remain competitive, smaller schools such as Seton Hall and DePaul would struggle to keep up. As Power 5 schools offer financial security, NIL opportunities, and greater exposure, these programs could siphon top talent, creating a widening gap. The financial pressure might even force the top Big East teams to leave for a more lucrative Power 5 or “P6” league.

The Power 5’s attempts to regulate NIL, by instituting caps and centralized revenue sharing, are unlikely to survive antitrust challenges, according to most legal experts. Even if they succeed in capping the revenue-sharing portion, it would likely mean a base salary of $500K-plus per player. This shift could result in minimal impact on the competitive balance, giving Power 5 schools a direct financial advantage but leaving the Big East and smaller conferences without the ability to compete for elite talent.

Without a cap on NIL, the Big East would face enormous challenges. A revenue-sharing model could be adopted by the conference, but it would be ineffective without regulating NIL. Even Top programs in the Big East would still struggle to compete with the uncapped NIL deals offered by Power 5 schools. A Big East revenue-sharing model on its own would only exacerbate the financial divide, making it impossible for smaller programs to financially compete.

Thus, the Big East could face serious fragmentation, with top teams potentially seeking to join more lucrative Power 5 conferences while the smaller schools fall behind. To remain competitive, the Big East would need to find ways to close the NIL gap—perhaps by implementing its own NIL collectives—but this too could prove difficult without significant financial backing.

In conclusion, while the Power 5’s revenue-sharing and NIL regulations could benefit their schools, they threaten to destabilize smaller conferences like the Big East. Without a way to regulate NIL, smaller programs will be unable to compete, leading to potential fragmentation and a reshaping of the college basketball landscape.


To add to this - there have been discussions on this board and elsewhere that the ultimate goal of the power 4 is to leave the NCAA altogether and form their own super league, and thus leave the rest of the schools to fetch for themselves. I don't know if that's true, but this could be the first cut in the ties that bind the NCAA together. Maybe???

[XUGRAD80]

I was meaning it didn’t stop X from rising to a top 20-25 program in the A10. But they did go on to win the big east and manage a 1 seed and a 2 seed pre NIL and just regular cheating that you’re referring to. I just don’t consider it an excuse for not returning to a top 20 type program they were before.

It my opinion that the ratings are very inaccurate for judging just how good a team is. Especially ratings in the preseason and early in the year. I don’t put much faith in them at all. I think that when a lower level team is dominate against the competition they face at that level, and runs off a lot of wins in a row, they are almost always rated higher than they really deserve. This happened for X many years. That also led to them being over seeded at times. IMO they didn’t deserve to be a 1 seed the year that they were. I do think that their record in the NCAA tournament is much more accurate when used to reflect how good some of those teams were. And yes, X has had some really good teams and has consistently been a very good program. But perhaps because of their regular season records against MCC and A10 competition they have been a little overrated over the years? Other schools have also been subject to this as well.

But I also don't think that MOST teams were buying players during that period. X was not competing financially in that way against MOST of the teams that they were competing with for recruits. But that is no longer the case. EVERYONE is now paying the players. But, like in every other business I can name, there are going to be SOME that push the boundaries of what is allowed and SOME others that are going to outright cheat. I think that X can and will compete successfully against teams playing by the rules. I’m just saying that they won’t compete well against the teams that don’t. Nothing different than what they had before, EXCEPT it’s no longer A10 schools and A10 budgets that they are competing with. They are no longer the Big Dog of the conference because they take it more seriously than any other school. EVERY school in the BE is just as serious as X is.

[webxu]

Basically, something along these lines is what I fear as a possibility:




To add to this - there have been discussions on this board and elsewhere that the ultimate goal of the power 4 is to leave the NCAA altogether and form their own super league, and thus leave the rest of the schools to fetch for themselves. I don't know if that's true, but this could be the first cut in the ties that bind the NCAA together. Maybe???

Football is the driver here, I could envision a world where football splits off and all other sports go back to conference afflilations that make sense, which would be ideal. I think this run by ND in football is showing the other football schools that conferences may not matter that much. ND just got 20M all to themselves for making the natty, while OSU/TX would have to split that 20M with all other conference members. How long will OSU continue to shell out 20M for a NIL super team, then split the 20M they would receive with Rutgers.. i know the tv deals etc, but with streaming becoming mainstream each team could have a deal like ND does all to their own. Probably all wishful thkinking and me yearning for us to be a dominate bball power again.. sigh.

[Xville]

It my opinion that the ratings are very inaccurate for judging just how good a team is. Especially ratings in the preseason and early in the year. I don’t put much faith in them at all. I think that when a lower level team is dominate against the competition they face at that level, and runs off a lot of wins in a row, they are almost always rated higher than they really deserve. This happened for X many years. That also led to them being over seeded at times. IMO they didn’t deserve to be a 1 seed the year that they were. I do think that their record in the NCAA tournament is much more accurate when used to reflect how good some of those teams were. And yes, X has had some really good teams and has consistently been a very good program. But perhaps because of their regular season records against MCC and A10 competition they have been a little overrated over the years? Other schools have also been subject to this as well.

But I also don't think that MOST teams were buying players during that period. X was not competing financially in that way against MOST of the teams that they were competing with for recruits. But that is no longer the case. EVERYONE is now paying the players. But, like in every other business I can name, there are going to be SOME that push the boundaries of what is allowed and SOME others that are going to outright cheat. I think that X can and will compete successfully against teams playing by the rules. I’m just saying that they won’t compete well against the teams that don’t. Nothing different than what they had before, EXCEPT it’s no longer A10 schools and A10 budgets that they are competing with. They are no longer the Big Dog of the conference because they take it more seriously than any other school. EVERY school in the BE is just as serious as X is.

While I agree with some of this I don’t think butler, seton hall and DePaul take bb as serious as x does

[XU_Lou]

Football is the driver here, I could envision a world where football splits off and all other sports go back to conference afflilations that make sense, which would be ideal. I think this run by ND in football is showing the other football schools that conferences may not matter that much. ND just got 20M all to themselves for making the natty, while OSU/TX would have to split that 20M with all other conference members. How long will OSU continue to shell out 20M for a NIL super team, then split the 20M they would receive with Rutgers.. i know the tv deals etc, but with streaming becoming mainstream each team could have a deal like ND does all to their own. Probably all wishful thkinking and me yearning for us to be a dominate bball power again.. sigh.

I agree with several of your points. And yes, only f-ball splitting from the NCAA is obviously a very real possibility.

[XUGRAD80]

While I agree with some of this I don’t think butler, seton hall and DePaul take bb as serious as x does

I think that they take it as seriously, but from what I’ve seen reported, they don’t spend what X does. However, let’s also keep in mind that the numbers reported aren’t necessarily comparing apples to apples. Arena costs, coaches salaries, etc. and how they are included or excluded from reported expenses and costs can differ greatly from school to school. BUT from everything I’ve seen reported, X is NOT in the top tier of the BE conference for its BB budget, even though what they spend now is much more than any of the budgets they had while in the A10.

What I’d really like to see is an accurate comparison of recruiting department costs and expenses, and player payments. I think that would be very interesting and telling.

[XUGRAD80]

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/43361128/effort-unionize-college-athletes-hits-stumbling-block

Interesting read that fits this discussion

[paulxu]

Not "employees(?)" but maybe you can pay them to buy a National Championship.

https://www.on3.com/nil/news/on3s-top-15-nil-collectives-in-college-sports/

$20 million for OSU team. 10 players on it making more than $1million. Student athletes...and business men.

[nickgyp]

Not "employees(?)" but maybe you can pay them to buy a National Championship.

https://www.on3.com/nil/news/on3s-top-15-nil-collectives-in-college-sports/

$20 million for OSU team. 10 players on it making more than $1million. Student athletes...and business men.

Fully expected Xavier to be in there…. Over the years, I have always been happy when Xavier wins a game fully knowing that it was only a diversion and not of any particular consequence in my life. But is the pursuit of this happiness really worth all the money that is now needed to achieve the vicarious happiness we get when college athletes win contests that we did not contribute any athletic prowess to?

The OSU-Texas was an exciting game with stellar play not that I cared either way for the combatants as I don’t identify with either school. Mercenary athletics make it hard to identify with the Musketeer teams. Hope they beat DePaul today and 8 will watch but it certainly is not the same.

And that is a shame.

[94GRAD]

This is wild if true!!!

https://x.com/_MLFootball/status/1877785203260743703

[xubrew]

This is wild if true!!!

https://x.com/_MLFootball/status/1877785203260743703

I believe that it is.

[bjf123]

This is wild if true!!!

https://x.com/_MLFootball/status/1877785203260743703

That’s just wrong.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[A Fan]

The University of Miami’s reported $4 million deal to secure Carson Beck as its quarterback exemplifies why the proposed revenue-sharing model and NIL caps for Power 5 conferences are unlikely to succeed.Miami’s aggressive investment in NIL deals shows how the market dynamics of college athletics have fundamentally shifted, making centralized regulation and financial caps impractical.

Question. If a player the caliber of David West was entering the 2025 portal what would he fetch
?. And would it be a multiple of his first year NBA salary of $1.1 M. ?

Xavier Basketball was sure fun. Be happy you partook. You lived through the Glory Years!

[Muskie in dayton]

This is wild if true!!!

https://x.com/_MLFootball/status/1877785203260743703
It can’t be. I’ve been reliably told by a certain, frequent poster here that X is not a news source. I bet the amount is much higher.

We haven’t yet reached the end of the clickety-clack of the NIL rollercoaster.

[xu82]

This is wild if true!!!

https://x.com/_MLFootball/status/1877785203260743703

The QB at Bama a couple years ago made more than the QB of the Eagles. The players should have the right to freedom of movement and compensation, and I have the right to care a little less every year.

[Xavier]

Agreed. You get schools like Rutgers that buy 1st round picks and dominate. Well…

[xubrew]

It can’t be. I’ve been reliably told by a certain, frequent poster here that X is not a news source. I bet the amount is much higher.

We haven’t yet reached the end of the clickety-clack of the NIL rollercoaster.

X is not a news source. If this were only being reported on X I wouldn't believe it. But, I've heard it from sources that I do believe. Maybe it's wrong, but I don't think so. The fact that it's on X has nothing to do with why I don't think so. I guess we'll see.

[xubrew]

Remember when the NCAA actually tried to argue that players really weren't worth anything anyway in the free market?? Their position was actually that the players needed the schools far more than the schools needed or wanted them. They actually believed that! Yeah...I think that take has been proven to be incredibly wrong.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think that's exactly wrong. The players wouldn't be valued except for the connection to the universities. Given the system the colleges have in place, the players become very valuable.

[nickgyp]

The University of Miami’s reported $4 million deal to secure Carson Beck as its quarterback exemplifies why the proposed revenue-sharing model and NIL caps for Power 5 conferences are unlikely to succeed.Miami’s aggressive investment in NIL deals shows how the market dynamics of college athletics have fundamentally shifted, making centralized regulation and financial caps impractical.

Question. If a player the caliber of David West was entering the 2025 portal what would he fetch
?. And would it be a multiple of his first year NBA salary of $1.1 M. ?

Xavier Basketball was sure fun. Be happy you partook. You lived through the Glory Years!

Miami is a private university but the school seems to fare well economically football-wise. Didn’t care for the Canes under Jimmy Johnson and certainly have not since but given the history there this rumor is probably true. Just hope Beck fixes that arm tattoo with maybe a traditional heart and “ I love mom” on his bicep. It’s not likely needed to cover lab fees for his physics class. (FWIW: I was a business major and didn’t have to pay any lab fees for Fr. O’Brien’s astronomy class where I was a “star pupil”. Maybe if I had opted for physics then I would appreciate the gravity of matter(s)….

[bjf123]

(FWIW: I was a business major and didn’t have to pay any lab fees for Fr. O’Brien’s astronomy class where I was a “star pupil”. Maybe if I had opted for physics then I would appreciate the gravity of matter(s)….

Loved Fr. O’Brien’s astronomy class!


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[nickgyp]

Loved Fr. O’Brien’s astronomy class!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Me, too. Got me to seriously think about a career at NASA…

Not really as my plotting a planet’s orbit using a computer system based on IBM cards and lots of teletype paper just utilized a lot of ink and, as far as I know, my planet still is out there orbiting a yet to be found galaxy far, far away and never to return.

And if it does then maybe I can finally get my grade changed from “Incomplete”.

[XUGRAD80]

To the surprises of almost no one, the Dept. of Education has said that NIL payments will fall under Title IX legislation. Meaning that schools must give proportional equal NIL money to women as they do to men. Now, with a new administration coming into power in just a few days, and the changes that will bring to said institution, that mandate may well change very quickly. But in either case IMO it’s almost certainly going to end up being decided by the courts. In fact, there are already several pending court cases started by athletes and outside groups that seek to have the courts mandate equal payments between the sexes. As it stands now the vast majority of schools had planned to spend the vast majority of the money allowed paying the sports that generate the most income….mens football and basketball. The DOE now says that would be illegal.

That could become VERY interesting.

Furthermore, this could very easily derail the agreement that will lead to direct payment by the schools to the athletes.

[Xville]

To the surprises of almost no one, the Dept. of Education has said that NIL payments will fall under Title IX legislation. Meaning that schools must give proportional equal NIL money to women as they do to men. Now, with a new administration coming into power in just a few days, and the changes that will bring to said institution, that mandate may well change very quickly. But in either case IMO it’s almost certainly going to end up being decided by the courts. In fact, there are already several pending court cases started by athletes and outside groups that seek to have the courts mandate equal payments between the sexes. As it stands now the vast majority of schools had planned to spend the vast majority of the money allowed paying the sports that generate the most income….mens football and basketball. The DOE now says that would be illegal.

That could become VERY interesting.

Furthermore, this could very easily derail the agreement that will lead to direct payment by the schools to the athletes.

Somone help me understand how title 9 equals same payments to men and women’s sports? I thought title 9 was only about having the same equal Opportunity, nothing more nothing less. Not a lawyer, but believe the doe is very wrong on this one—-shocking

[XUGRAD80]

Somone help me understand how title 9 equals same payments to men and women’s sports? I thought title 9 was only about having the same equal Opportunity, nothing more nothing less. Not a lawyer, but believe the doe is very wrong on this one—-shocking

Proportional support is the key……based on number of athletes participating in intercollegiate sports. Read this…

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/43443976/dept-education-says-title-ix-applies-payments-athletes

[bleedXblue]

This is going to lead to schools eliminating many sports IMHO

And how in the hell does Xavier pay the womens bball team that doesnt generate a drop of positive revenue for the school the same amount as the men? Thats absurd

[XUGRAD80]

This is going to lead to schools eliminating many sports IMHO

And how in the hell does Xavier pay the womens bball team that doesnt generate a drop of positive revenue for the school the same amount as the men? Thats absurd

Decisions by governmental departments that do not take financial realities into consideration are why we are several trillion dollars in debt. It’s par for the course when dealing with those people. Absurd is an apt description. But that never stopped them.

[MHettel]

This is going to lead to schools eliminating many sports IMHO

And how in the hell does Xavier pay the womens bball team that doesnt generate a drop of positive revenue for the school the same amount as the men? Thats absurd

Yup. Wonder if anyone predicted that?

[drudy23]

This is going to lead to schools eliminating many sports IMHO

And how in the hell does Xavier pay the womens bball team that doesnt generate a drop of positive revenue for the school the same amount as the men? Thats absurd

Not to mention they haven't won a BE game since 1925 it seems.

How can NIL be a Title IV initiative? The whole purpose of NIL is to get recognizable faces to plug products/companies. No one recognizes anyone else outside of the mens bball players/

[XUGRAD80]

Not to mention they haven't won a BE game since 1925 it seems.

How can NIL be a Title IV initiative? The whole purpose of NIL is to get recognizable faces to plug products/companies. No one recognizes anyone else outside of the mens bball players/

As the article states....the dept. of education will view those payments under the new proposed (and agreed to) plan as the same as any athletic scholarship....as "athletic financial assistance". Therefore, they fall under Title IX legislation.

[drudy23]

The whole concept of Name Image and Likeness was never even done. They just went straight to payin people lol.

They went from too much oversight, to none. How do you figure out NIL if it's not even NIL.

I'm 75% serious with this...no one knows what they hell is going on. Start taking some calculated risks while the legislation is grey as hell. You can't sit around and wait for the "rules". Just start doing some creative things.

The ones that will get ahead are exploiting anything they can right now (legally).

[paulxu]

Maybe use the $ to buy a good women's team ?

[drudy23]

Maybe use the $ to buy a good women's team ?

At what expense?

[xubrew]

To the surprises of almost no one, the Dept. of Education has said that NIL payments will fall under Title IX legislation. Meaning that schools must give proportional equal NIL money to women as they do to men. Now, with a new administration coming into power in just a few days, and the changes that will bring to said institution, that mandate may well change very quickly. But in either case IMO it’s almost certainly going to end up being decided by the courts. In fact, there are already several pending court cases started by athletes and outside groups that seek to have the courts mandate equal payments between the sexes. As it stands now the vast majority of schools had planned to spend the vast majority of the money allowed paying the sports that generate the most income….mens football and basketball. The DOE now says that would be illegal.

That could become VERY interesting.

Furthermore, this could very easily derail the agreement that will lead to direct payment by the schools to the athletes.

What THE SCHOOLS pay is absolutely within their purview. The money that doesn't come directly from the schools is what can't/won't regulate. And what's interesting is just how much influence can a school have over NIL payments that aren't technically coming directly from the school.


Somone help me understand how title 9 equals same payments to men and women’s sports? I thought title 9 was only about having the same equal Opportunity, nothing more nothing less. Not a lawyer, but believe the doe is very wrong on this one—-shocking

Because that's what Title IX is. An equal opportunity. A school collective, or a payment coming directly from the school, must be proportional. But payments from endorsement deals outside the school would still be fair game. At least that's how most seem to understand it.

So what you're likely going to see is schools trying to structure things in a way that allows them to say "Those big NIL deals that our star football and basketball players have aren't tied to us! Those are independent endorsement deals! NOTHING to do with athletics!"

[Xville]

What THE SCHOOLS pay is absolutely within their purview. The money that doesn't come directly from the schools is what can't/won't regulate. And what's interesting is just how much influence can a school have over NIL payments that aren't technically coming directly from the school.



Because that's what Title IX is. An equal opportunity. A school collective, or a payment coming directly from the school, must be proportional. But payments from endorsement deals outside the school would still be fair game. At least that's how most seem to understand it.

So what you're likely going to see is schools trying to structure things in a way that allows them to say "Those big NIL deals that our star football and basketball players have aren't tied to us! Those are independent endorsement deals!"

ok but isn't it just an "equal opportunity?" I mean if it was "equal" money then the school would have to pay the same amount of money for mens basketball as they do women's basketball and you can't tell me X for instance spends the same amount of money on womens basketball as they do men, correct? Why should "Nil" be any different...knowing full well it's not nil but just direct payments. I guess I'm thinking about this wrong.

Ok after doing a bit more research i understand that scholarships have to be directly proportional so i guess payments for athletes would have to be the same. So, then what if the school gives the money to the collectives and then the collectives do what they want with it? Would that be the way to skirt the legality of "equal pay?"

[bleedXblue]

This is all the more reason why schools should sell their programs to a private company, remove themselves from all of this ridiculous non sense and form a professional league positioned below the NBA to essentially be a farm system. Schools can (sublease) their on campus arena's and facilities to these companies. Xavier retains 51% ownership. Is there anything stopping this? Once the first big school moves, it will be all over for the NCAA.

[GoMuskies]

This is all the more reason why schools should sell their programs to a private company, remove themselves from all of this ridiculous non sense and form a professional league positioned below the NBA to essentially be a farm system. Schools can (sublease) their on campus arena's and facilities to these companies. Xavier retains 51% ownership. Is there anything stopping this? Once the first big school moves, it will be all over for the NCAA.

Why would anyone be interested in watching this?

[XUGRAD80]

Per the DOE memo….it is possible that NIL payments COULD “trigger schools TitleIX obligations”. I’m not sure exactly how that would stand up in a court of law, but things like that rarely mean much to government bureaucrats.

Once again, this could all change and go away with a change in leadership at the department, but you can bet your last dollar that this is all ultimately going to be settled by the courts and not government officials.

The courts will have to decide if these payments are actually in the same class as an athletic scholarship or are something different.

[bleedXblue]

Why would anyone be interested in watching this?

Teams will still be tied to the schools, play in the same venues and you can structure leagues and tournaments in a very similar way as they are today. Certainly some risks.....and to be clear I dont want this.

[GoMuskies]

I understand you're not advocating for it. But if teams are only tied to schools by trademark deals, essentially (because the real owners have bought the right to use the university's name), I just don't understand why people would still be interested. Just watch the NBA at that point, because the players are far, far superior.

[Xavier]

I actually am a little surprised there hasn’t been league structures similar to those in Europe. With the students getting paid I kinda thought it could be the first step towards that. The ties to schools make it really tough for a league to compete with, though. So I could see a possible structure like bleed has suggested. Schools still needing and wanting that marketing/revenue, the league and networks still needing to make money needing built in “ties” to teams. It won’t happen without some “ties” to the schools.

I don’t think it will happen. But it’s a possibility. And not within the next couple decades. Frankly I could see schools needing that type of situation to just stay afloat and not shut down.

[xubrew]

ok but isn't it just an "equal opportunity?" I mean if it was "equal" money then the school would have to pay the same amount of money for mens basketball as they do women's basketball and you can't tell me X for instance spends the same amount of money on womens basketball as they do men, correct? Why should "Nil" be any different...knowing full well it's not nil but just direct payments. I guess I'm thinking about this wrong.

Ok after doing a bit more research i understand that scholarships have to be directly proportional so i guess payments for athletes would have to be the same. So, then what if the school gives the money to the collectives and then the collectives do what they want with it? Would that be the way to skirt the legality of "equal pay?"

That is a very interesting idea!! And my answer is....I really don't know.

EDIT: My initial thought is that if it is the school's own collective, then this wouldn't work. But if it were something that was technically independent, I don't know how that would play out. The DOE wouldn't like it, but that wouldn't make it technically illegal.

[GoMuskies]

Linda McMahon's DOE may love it. Who knows?

[JTG]

Maybe use the $ to buy a good women's team ?

Aside from friends and family, who cares? Just more idiotic wokeness.

[JTG]

Why would anyone be interested in watching this?
Kind of the way I feel about Zip em Up. I live and die with every X men's bball . But I have no interest in that summer thing with former players.

[Xville]

Aside from friends and family, who cares? Just more idiotic wokeness.

Weird thing to say but ok.

With the NCAA now paying out for Women's inclusion in the tournament to the conferences, and with the growth in the sport, I think it's important for Xavier to field a good basketball team. It's beneficial from a branding perspective, and good for corporate sponsors for both the mens and womens' programs.

I'm not going to sit here and act like i live and die with every women's game. Yet from a financial perspective and for the overall health of the university's sports program, I think it would be wise to invest in it better than what our non forward-thinking AD has done. If the women's game continues to grow as it has just in the last 5-10 years, it will be profitable for schools that do it correctly.

[GoMuskies]

I enjoy it when Xavier has a good women's team. The time we beat Tennessee in the NCAA Tournament so bad it gave Pat Summitt dementia was awesome. Going into Storrs and narrowly missing beating #1 UConn in the NCAA Tournament was also amazing (and shows how far we've fallen). Also thoroughly enjoyed the run to being within one missed layup of the Final Four. Painful way for that to end.

[drudy23]

Kind of the way I feel about Zip em Up. I live and die with every X men's bball . But I have no interest in that summer thing with former players.

It was fun the first couple of years. After that, it wasn't worth it, and the past year or two was a complete cash grab with a terrible product on the floor. I think several said "no mas" after last year. Either get 100% serious about it, or end it.

[MHettel]

The whole concept of Name Image and Likeness was never even done. They just went straight to payin people lol.

They went from too much oversight, to none. How do you figure out NIL if it's not even NIL.

I'm 75% serious with this...no one knows what they hell is going on. Start taking some calculated risks while the legislation is grey as hell. You can't sit around and wait for the "rules". Just start doing some creative things.

The ones that will get ahead are exploiting anything they can right now (legally).

I assume you don’t work in the Fintech industry.

[Xville]

I assume you don’t work in the Fintech industry.

You mean the industry that’s about twenty five years behind everyone else?

[drudy23]

I assume you don’t work in the Fintech industry.

I don't - what's the correlation?

I don't know if you mean, yes, this is what fintech does to get ahead, or no, don't do that because it gets you in trouble.

[MHettel]

I don't - what's the correlation?

I don't know if you mean, yes, this is what fintech does to get ahead, or no, don't do that because it gets you in trouble.

Don’t do it. It’s under regulated and Fintechs are buying really small banks to get a charter and no they can provide their products to consumers. Several of them have been absolutely hammered trying that.

[MHettel]

You mean the industry that’s about twenty five years behind everyone else?

You’ll comment on anything apparently.

Wtf are you talking about?

[XUGRAD80]

Do you two have to muddy up every discussion with your personal conversations and bickering? Please stop.

[94GRAD]

I enjoy it when Xavier has a good women's team. The time we beat Tennessee in the NCAA Tournament so bad it gave Pat Summitt dementia was awesome. Going into Storrs and narrowly missing beating #1 UConn in the NCAA Tournament was also amazing (and shows how far we've fallen). Also thoroughly enjoyed the run to being within one missed layup of the Final Four. Painful way for that to end.

Public reps since the man is keeping me down. Thanks for the early morning chuckle!

[xu82]

Do you two have to muddy up every discussion with your personal conversations and bickering? Please stop.

It certainly does get old, while adding nothing of value.

[xudash]

WITH THE REALITY OF NIL, MEDIA RIGHTS DEALS FOR THE B1G AND SEC, IN PARTICULAR, AND THE SIZES OF MOST ALUMNI BASES FROM THE LAND GRANT SCHOOLS, JUST HOW MUCH OF A DISADVANTAGE DO WE OPERATE FROM IN BASKETBALL?

We talk about being small and having to compete against the big schools. That is an issue; that is a fact. The alumni bases of the larger land grant universities dwarfs ours at 70+k alumni.

Nonetheless, what are we truly up against here when it comes to being financially competitive?

Yes, accounting treatments at universities can be creative and certainly inconsistent, but only to a degree.

The key metric to look at, IMHO, is:

Total Allocated: The sum of student fees, direct and indirect institutional support and state money allocated to the athletics department, minus certain funds the department transferred back to the school.

Total Allocated clearly must be regarded as OTHER REVENUE. Primary revenue obviously comes from ticket sales, concessions, share of media deals, bowl money, etc. Ohio State and Texas sit at the top of that metric. 12 universities, all involving P4 athletic departments, posted $-0- in Total Allocated in a recent report. According to that same report, 62 football playing schools at the FBS level have Total Allocated that exceeds $20 million. Members of the ACC and Big XII are racking up $5 million+, $10 million and even in excess of $20 million in virtually every case (the 2 Kansas schools are interesting: Kansas is at $1.5 million and Kansas State managed to ledger up a zero dollar figure for this.

I understand that this is not a black and white thing. I'm simply coming at this by attempting to focus on the mix of the revenue package - primary v other revenue. UCONN is the poster child for a Hot Mess Athletic Department:

50 Connecticut Big East $99,041,960 $96,742,518 $55,341,505* 55.88%

$99 million in revenue, but with over $55 million of it coming from Other Revenue, so to speak.

If I have a point, or at least the point I'm attempting to make and defend is that many of these programs are already funding what is considered their primary operations via subsidies from related, but peripheral sources.

Having noted that, there is no doubt we operate at a disadvantage due to our size. The big revenue numbers, particularly now coming from the B1G and SEC due largely to their media deals, paint a less than appealing picture. Yet the expenses required to run such programs are enormous and only getting bigger as facilities investments, facilities maintenance fees, healthcare costs, and overhead (i.e. think administrative staffing) for these organizations go up. Even Maryland and Rutgers in the B1G run sizeable TA numbers.

We can't win a NIL war with the likes of Ohio State, but how far off are we when we're dealing with the NEXT TIER of these athletic departments, especially those that truly want to continue to break into the 12-team football playoff?

The other important side of this conversation must focus on supply of and demand for talent. The discussion around here involves mentioning that good guards are a dime a dozen - maybe an exaggeration, but still a valid point to some degree. Great big men are hard to find, unless, in our case, we're picking up a Jack Nunge on the rebound.

When a player makes a final decision on which uniform he will wear, it won't in all cases be just about money. How much of it is about coaching? How much of it is about being able to play the position he wants to play for his personal development (e.g. Claude)?

I guess I'm wondering if anything has really changed in the pecking order of things when it comes to talent distribution. So long as we build a level of NIL that is competitive for us, we can carve a successful path through with our hoops program.

We won a massive contest against a top team in front of their 18,000 loyal fans. We've pulled even at 4-4 in the BE. We have a long way to go, but, even with the injuries and continuing to mesh these guys together, we have a coach that can absolutely navigate this program to success.

NIL and the portal are doing everything they can to screw up the sport for many people - and I certainly respect that - but I believe we're still pretty well positioned in the "industry". It's not about the big revenue numbers at football schools. It's about what comprises those numbers. And it's about the amount of resources a football program devours within an athletic department.

It's like the man said, basketball schools may have an advantage in all of this. I believe that's true, but mostly for basketball schools that have a BIG EAST PATCH on the front of their uniforms.

Pardon me if you take this as rambling, but I feel pretty good right now.

[MHettel]

WITH THE REALITY OF NIL, MEDIA RIGHTS DEALS FOR THE B1G AND SEC, IN PARTICULAR, AND THE SIZES OF MOST ALUMNI BASES FROM THE LAND GRANT SCHOOLS, JUST HOW MUCH OF A DISADVANTAGE DO WE OPERATE FROM IN BASKETBALL?

We talk about being small and having to compete against the big schools. That is an issue; that is a fact. The alumni bases of the larger land grant universities dwarfs ours at 70+k alumni.

Nonetheless, what are we truly up against here when it comes to being financially competitive?

Yes, accounting treatments at universities can be creative and certainly inconsistent, but only to a degree.

The key metric to look at, IMHO, is:

Total Allocated: The sum of student fees, direct and indirect institutional support and state money allocated to the athletics department, minus certain funds the department transferred back to the school.

Total Allocated clearly must be regarded as OTHER REVENUE. Primary revenue obviously comes from ticket sales, concessions, share of media deals, bowl money, etc. Ohio State and Texas sit at the top of that metric. 12 universities, all involving P4 athletic departments, posted $-0- in Total Allocated in a recent report. According to that same report, 62 football playing schools at the FBS level have Total Allocated that exceeds $20 million. Members of the ACC and Big XII are racking up $5 million+, $10 million and even in excess of $20 million in virtually every case (the 2 Kansas schools are interesting: Kansas is at $1.5 million and Kansas State managed to ledger up a zero dollar figure for this.

I understand that this is not a black and white thing. I'm simply coming at this by attempting to focus on the mix of the revenue package - primary v other revenue. UCONN is the poster child for a Hot Mess Athletic Department:

50 Connecticut Big East $99,041,960 $96,742,518 $55,341,505* 55.88%

$99 million in revenue, but with over $55 million of it coming from Other Revenue, so to speak.

If I have a point, or at least the point I'm attempting to make and defend is that many of these programs are already funding what is considered their primary operations via subsidies from related, but peripheral sources.

Having noted that, there is no doubt we operate at a disadvantage due to our size. The big revenue numbers, particularly now coming from the B1G and SEC due largely to their media deals, paint a less than appealing picture. Yet the expenses required to run such programs are enormous and only getting bigger as facilities investments, facilities maintenance fees, healthcare costs, and overhead (i.e. think administrative staffing) for these organizations go up. Even Maryland and Rutgers in the B1G run sizeable TA numbers.

We can't win a NIL war with the likes of Ohio State, but how far off are we when we're dealing with the NEXT TIER of these athletic departments, especially those that truly want to continue to break into the 12-team football playoff?

The other important side of this conversation must focus on supply of and demand for talent. The discussion around here involves mentioning that good guards are a dime a dozen - maybe an exaggeration, but still a valid point to some degree. Great big men are hard to find, unless, in our case, we're picking up a Jack Nunge on the rebound.

When a player makes a final decision on which uniform he will wear, it won't in all cases be just about money. How much of it is about coaching? How much of it is about being able to play the position he wants to play for his personal development (e.g. Claude)?

I guess I'm wondering if anything has really changed in the pecking order of things when it comes to talent distribution. So long as we build a level of NIL that is competitive for us, we can carve a successful path through with our hoops program.

We won a massive contest against a top team in front of their 18,000 loyal fans. We've pulled even at 4-4 in the BE. We have a long way to go, but, even with the injuries and continuing to mesh these guys together, we have a coach that can absolutely navigate this program to success.

NIL and the portal are doing everything they can to screw up the sport for many people - and I certainly respect that - but I believe we're still pretty well positioned in the "industry". It's not about the big revenue numbers at football schools. It's about what comprises those numbers. And it's about the amount of resources a football program devours within an athletic department.

It's like the man said, basketball schools may have an advantage in all of this. I believe that's true, but mostly for basketball schools that have a BIG EAST PATCH on the front of their uniforms.

Pardon me if you take this as rambling, but I feel pretty good right now.

The numbers you quote have zero meaning. Zero.

I say this every time. And then it’s like yes, but….

There are no buts. At all the schools have the latitude to account and report using whichever methodology they decide upon. The only expectation is that each school does it consistent with their own methodology of the past.

The number mean nothings.

Conclusions drawn from the number mean nothing.

Feeling drawn from the conclusions mean nothing.

[xudash]

The numbers you quote have zero meaning. Zero.

I say this every time. And then it’s like yes, but….

There are no buts. At all the schools have the latitude to account and report using whichever methodology they decide upon. The only expectation is that each school does it consistent with their own methodology of the past.

The number mean nothings.

Conclusions drawn from the number mean nothing.

Feeling drawn from the conclusions mean nothing.

So, how many years did you spend at Arthur Anderson?

[Xville]

So, how many years did you spend at Arthur Anderson?
I agree in that x can still survive and even thrive in this environment. It’s the same as it ever was, x will need to punch a little above their weight in some aspects, but they can and as long as miller is here, I believe they will.

[Xavier]

Honestly, they may have been more at a disadvantage in the A10 (and earlier, but I was too young to speak on) than in the NIL era. It’s why we were a “stepping stone”. Couldn’t pay the coaches, etc etc.

Both situations we have to find ways to punch up. In A10 days it was finding gems in recruiting and player development. In many ways, it’s the same exact now. Find gems (Boum/Q) and develop…..(lacking). Being in The Big East, having some solid enough NIL- being able to use mid-majors to help….i can see the argument it was more disadvantageous being a mid major.

[MHettel]

So, how many years did you spend at Arthur Anderson?

Uhh, since Arthur Anderson hasn’t been around for about 20 years I’ll assume you use that term to broadly mean “finance and accounting for public companies”.

20 years

[bjf123]

Not that it matters, but it was Arthur Andersen.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GoMuskies]

Hey, I've been to St. Charles!

What, no one asked? Sorry.

[xudash]

Uhh, since Arthur Anderson hasn’t been around for about 20 years I’ll assume you use that term to broadly mean “finance and accounting for public companies”.

20 years

Not just public companies.

I have to assume that you understand that universities have their financials audited as well.

[MHettel]

Not just public companies.

I have to assume that you understand that universities have their financials audited as well.

That wasn’t actually my exact point. I work in this “area” in an industry that is very homogeneous. Thousands of companies with essentially the same business model are evaluated on their financial performance on an “apples to apples” basis and their nuances and deviations from “standard” accounting and reporting practices stick out like a sore thumb. These are not illegal or inappropriate practices….but when several thousand companies are measured using the same set of criteria it’s easy to spot the ones that are trying to get a little too “cute” with their accounting.

So universities are broadly NOT evaluated in this basis in such a specific way around their financials. So there is no scrutiny….or expectation to account and report in a particular way. This gives way to the immense variation among how schools report financial results and budgets of their sports teams. It’s all over the place.

If I asked 10 people how much it costs to have a kid, I’d get 10 answers. Some people would include just the costs of the direct expenses of the kid (clothes, shoes, etc). Others would add in the fact that their house has an extra bedroom due to the kid. Others would factor in extra water consumption. Others would consider the cost of birthday party gifts for friends of the kid. You get 10 answers none of which is more or less “right”. That’s the problem with your numbers. It is wildly inconsistent among the schools.

[noteggs]

Rick Pitino on Kadary: "If the money was the same, he'd be playing for Shaheen. If the money was close, he'd be playing for Shaheen."
"It's not a level playing field. Right now they don't have the revenue that most of the other teams have. Probably it's the lowest in the league.'

Interesting

[Xville]

Rick Pitino on Kadary: "If the money was the same, he'd be playing for Shaheen. If the money was close, he'd be playing for Shaheen."
"It's not a level playing field. Right now they don't have the revenue that most of the other teams have. Probably it's the lowest in the league.'

Interesting

Yeah not surprised. It’s been pretty public knowledge that hall does not have the nil funds to compete at this level. Honestly, I wonder if it doesn’t change quickly if hall will consider leaving the big East.

[MHettel]

Yeah not surprised. It’s been pretty public knowledge that hall does not have the nil funds to compete at this level. Honestly, I wonder if it doesn’t change quickly if hall will consider leaving the big East.

Do you actually think before you speak?

They will walk away from 7-8M a year in TV revenue. Is that the plan?

[Xville]

Do you actually think before you speak?

They will walk away from 7-8M a year in TV revenue. Is that the plan?

Oh that’s something I hadn’t thought of, their tv revenue! Geezus. What do you think happens to seton hall if they continue down this path in terms of ticket revenue, attendance, branding for the school, costs to operate the sports that don’t make any money etc? There are other factors to consider. Expenses are much higher operating in the big East than a smaller league.

[noteggs]

Yeah not surprised. It’s been pretty public knowledge that hall does not have the nil funds to compete at this level. Honestly, I wonder if it doesn’t change quickly if hall will consider leaving the big East.

True on Seton Hall’s NiL. Thought it was interesting to hear the reality out loud. Good for him.

[hoopster68]

True on Seton Hall’s NiL. Thought it was interesting to hear the reality out loud. Good for him.

The new prexy at SH not "looking good" right now.

[MHettel]

Saw on ESPN that IU was planning on laying off 25 Athletic Department employee as a cost cutting measure in preparation for revenue sharing with players that is coming down the pike….

Also saw an article about how OSU football spent 20M on football NIL and that was essential to their National Championship run.

[murray87]

All this chaos made me think about actual class attendance and maintaining a certain GPA. Does all that go out the window eventually?

[xubrew]

All this chaos made me think about actual class attendance and maintaining a certain GPA. Does all that go out the window eventually?

Yes.

My guess is that it will within the next three years. I think the next thing the courts will strike down is the NCAA eligibility rules. They've already ruled that players are employees. Next they will rule that the NCAA has no right to make rules about who the schools can and cannot hire or for how long they are allowed to play. Players won't even need to be students anymore.

This also means that a lot of people who work in student-athlete support will be out of a job. And, many probably don't see that coming. They better get their resumes up to date.

[xubrew]

All this chaos made me think about actual class attendance and maintaining a certain GPA. Does all that go out the window eventually?

Yes.

My guess is that it will within the next three years. I think the next thing the courts will strike down is the NCAA eligibility rules. They've already ruled that players are employees. Next they will rule that the NCAA has no right to make rules about who the schools can and cannot hire or for how long they are allowed to play. Players won't even need to be students anymore.

This also means that a lot of people who work in student-athlete support will be out of a job. And, many probably don't see that coming. They better get their resumes up to date.

[Xavier]

All this chaos made me think about actual class attendance and maintaining a certain GPA. Does all that go out the window eventually?

It’s been an illusion for quite awhile anyways. I get some still want to hold on to it, or turn an eye but it’s hardly a thing anymore. It’s similar to those who don’t think paying players was a wide spread issue before NIL. Look the other way, ignorance is bliss.

[GoMuskies]

One of my daughter's gymnastics teammates was declared academically ineligible, so it's still a thing. Weird that the only instance of it I'm aware of in the last 20 years is from a MAC women's gymnastics program.

[xubrew]

One of my daughter's gymnastics teammates was declared academically ineligible, so it's still a thing. Weird that the only instance of it I'm aware of in the last 20 years is from a MAC women's gymnastics program.

Oh it is still very much a thing. For now. And, it happens a lot. It doesn't often happen to key players in revenue sports, but it still frequently happens. My guess is that it won't be a thing for much longer, though. The courts will rule that the NCAA has no right to decide who is and isn't eligible. Granted it was not for academics, but the quarterback from Vanderbilt was just given that injunction by the courts declaring him to be eligible. They basically said the NCAA had no right to say hey could not keep playing. THAT IS A BIG DEAL!!

[bjf123]

If if gets to where to players don’t even have to be students, I’m out. Most college athletes are not going to earning a living playing their sport of choice. They need to have an education to help them find a career outside athletics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xubrew]

If if gets to where to players don’t even have to be students, I’m out. Most college athletes are not going to earning a living playing their sport of choice. They need to have an education to help them find a career outside athletics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think that's exactly how this is going to end up.

[Three Point Pete]

I think that's exactly how this is going to end up.If that's the case, then why even have college athletic programs?

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Xville]

If if gets to where to players don’t even have to be students, I’m out. Most college athletes are not going to earning a living playing their sport of choice. They need to have an education to help them find a career outside athletics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why does it matter? I don't care about Xavier athletics because the players are Xavier students. I care because I was a student, and I want the school that I attended to do well. Probably for nostalgic purposes more than anything else tbh. It will take some getting used to if it gets to that point I must admit, but in the end i don't think I'll care. If they still wear Xavier, play at Cintas, and I can go back to campus every year a few times to watch them play, thats good enough for me.

I know it won't be for some people, I'll never begrudge anyone who feels that way. But to me, doesn't matter. They were barely students when I went there, and that was over twenty years ago now.

[xubrew]

If that's the case, then why even have college athletic programs?

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

I think for the power programs athletics does generate revenue and it does serve as a huge marketing tool for the school.

I think many schools will undoubtedly rethink and/or restructure that athletics programs. Some may drop it altogether, or drop down a division, or say they want to continue to have athletics but not in a professional sports type of format. Even now in college football there are many schools that choose to play at the FCS level and don't even try and compete with the Big Ten and SEC.

But you'll also see schools doing what Indiana has already started to do. Gathering as much money as they can so they can pay for the best players.

I can only guess what this will ultimately end up lookin like. But from the legal side of things, I think the courts will end up ruling that the NCAA's eligibility rules are illegal. That means that each individual school (or perhaps conference) can decide for themselves who can and cannot play for them. And some universities will absolutely decide that they want to pay players and not even require them to be students. I don't think I have to even list which ones.

[xubrew]

Why does it matter? I don't care about Xavier athletics because the players are Xavier students. I care because I was a student, and I want the school that I attended to do well. Probably for nostalgic purposes more than anything else tbh. It will take some getting used to if it gets to that point I must admit, but in the end i don't think I'll care. If they still wear Xavier, play at Cintas, and I can go back to campus every year a few times to watch them play, thats good enough for me.

I know it won't be for some people, I'll never begrudge anyone who feels that way. But to me, doesn't matter. They were barely students when I went there, and that was over twenty years ago now.

This is exactly how most people will feel. Not all. Not me. But, most people won't really notice or care. The NCAA was rather insistent that it needed its amateurism rules in order to protect the popularity of college athletics. While many diehard fans don't like NIL, there has not been a substantial decline in the popularity of college sports. Turning it into professional sports where players aren't even students won't cause a substantial decline either.

I for one like giving traditional college students those opportunities, and I did like that they actually were students, and that certain academic benchmarks had to be met. But I also know that most people don't care at all about any of that. Most casual fans sort may sort of know who's on the team from year to year, but only sort of. They really just root for the uniform. All of these big changes really don't even register with them. They register with most people on sites like this one, but most people who watch sports are just casual fans. None of this really even matters to them.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

This is exactly how most people will feel. Not all. Not me. But, most people won't really notice or care. The NCAA was rather insistent that it needed its amateurism rules in order to protect the popularity of college athletics. While many diehard fans don't like NIL, there has not been a substantial decline in the popularity of college sports. Turning it into professional sports where players aren't even students won't cause a substantial decline either.

I for one like giving traditional college students those opportunities, and I did like that they actually were students, and that certain academic benchmarks had to be met. But I also know that most people don't care at all about any of that. Most casual fans sort may sort of know who's on the team from year to year, but only sort of. They really just root for the uniform. All of these big changes really don't even register with them. They register with most people on sites like this one, but most people who watch sports are just casual fans. None of this really even matters to them.

I'll bet it matters to more fans than you think. I moved to Cincinnati many, many years ago after graduating from college. I was a real college basketball fan and naturally gravitated to U.C. because I had heard of U.C. I barely knew Xavier existed. But after a few years of following the Ed Badger coached Bearcats, I began to sense something was different about Xavier. I identified with the Jesuit values around education (even though I'm not a Fisheater) and at that time, and for sometime after, Xavier made a big deal about graduating their players. No doubt, you've noticed the banner hanging from Cintas for Sister Fleming. I identified with that. I respected that about Xavier. The institution was about education; about helping athletes become productive citizens. It was easy for me to identify with X. They were the good guys.

There is almost no mention made today regarding academics. I recall Nunge received his master's degree in accounting. a real subject. Other than that, I never hear anything about number of players we graduate or their degrees. That isn't lost on me.

I think the more that Xavier basketball drifts toward NIL, the transfer portal, players who do not value (or perhaps even participate in) the institution's educational mission, the less connected fans will be to the program. I can sense this already from people I know who are also season ticket holders. And, I question, very seriously, if basketball can remain "the front porch" for Xavier University if players aren't even students.

It may not matter to XVille but I think it is important to many of us who have long supported the Muskies.

[waggy]

Doesn't this mean that X can bring it's whole team back? Colby Jones?

[GoMuskies]

It shouldn't change much for me given that I don't know any of these kids personally. I don't follow them to class or eat dinner with them at the Caf. But at some point it's just, philosophically, "What are we doing here?" I'll watch the occasional minor league baseball game, but I don't give a shit about the outcome. I don't follow other minor league sports. I might go to a AA hockey game every 2 or 3 years and see a crowd of 500 people there. No one gives a shit about the G-league.

So if college athletics just becomes another minor league sport, why do we give a shit about it when we don't give a shit about any other minor league sport? The only difference today is the kids' connection to the university. If they no longer have that connection other than through a licensing deal, why should anyone who's not playing, coaching or watching a friend or family member care about the outcome of these games?

[xu82]

I'll bet it matters to more fans than you think. I moved to Cincinnati many, many years ago after graduating from college. I was a real college basketball fan and naturally gravitated to U.C. because I had heard of U.C. I barely knew Xavier existed. But after a few years of following the Ed Badger coached Bearcats, I began to sense something was different about Xavier. I identified with the Jesuit values around education (even though I'm not a Fisheater) and at that time, and for sometime after, Xavier made a big deal about graduating their players. No doubt, you've noticed the banner hanging from Cintas for Sister Fleming. I identified with that. I respected that about Xavier. The institution was about education; about helping athletes become productive citizens. It was easy for me to identify with X. They were the good guys.

There is almost no mention made today regarding academics. I recall Nunge received his master's degree in accounting. a real subject. Other than that, I never hear anything about number of players we graduate or their degrees. That isn't lost on me.

I think the more that Xavier basketball drifts toward NIL, the transfer portal, players who do not value (or perhaps even participate in) the institution's educational mission, the less connected fans will be to the program. I can sense this already from people I know who are also season ticket holders. And, I question, very seriously, if basketball can remain "the front porch" for Xavier University if players aren't even students.

It may not matter to XVille but I think it is important to many of us who have long supported the Muskies.

Count me in among the people who don’t like the way this is drifting. I already care less than I did just a few years ago. I used to make a trip almost every year to Cincinnati to catch a game. I’d go to games that were relatively close to me, like Auburn. I’d travel to see them in the tournament (remember the tournament?). Now? I just don’t have that same urge I used to.

The graduation streak has been mentioned. That was a source of pride. Now I’m proud if I just know who all the guys on the floor are. This, I’m sure, is not unique to Xavier. I don’t begrudge the players for mobility or compensation, I just don’t like the resulting product as much.

[xubrew]

I'll bet it matters to more fans than you think. I moved to Cincinnati many, many years ago after graduating from college. I was a real college basketball fan and naturally gravitated to U.C. because I had heard of U.C. I barely knew Xavier existed. But after a few years of following the Ed Badger coached Bearcats, I began to sense something was different about Xavier. I identified with the Jesuit values around education (even though I'm not a Fisheater) and at that time, and for sometime after, Xavier made a big deal about graduating their players. No doubt, you've noticed the banner hanging from Cintas for Sister Fleming. I identified with that. I respected that about Xavier. The institution was about education; about helping athletes become productive citizens. It was easy for me to identify with X. They were the good guys.

There is almost no mention made today regarding academics. I recall Nunge received his master's degree in accounting. a real subject. Other than that, I never hear anything about number of players we graduate or their degrees. That isn't lost on me.

I think the more that Xavier basketball drifts toward NIL, the transfer portal, players who do not value (or perhaps even participate in) the institution's educational mission, the less connected fans will be to the program. I can sense this already from people I know who are also season ticket holders. And, I question, very seriously, if basketball can remain "the front porch" for Xavier University if players aren't even students.

It may not matter to XVille but I think it is important to many of us who have long supported the Muskies.

Aren't the two bolden comments sort of contradicting one another??

It absolutely does matter to some people. It may matter to more Xavier fans than to fans of other programs. But that's not necessarily a reflection of the entire college sports landscape. If you look at the University of Michigan, which is actually renowned for its academics, I bet their football stadium would still be full if many of the players were no longer students. I bet the TV ratings would be about the same. I bet the media deals for the Big Ten and SEC would be about the same.

I don't know if this is the best example or not, but about fifty years ago in professional baseball the reserve clause was abolished and free agency became a thing. Many said it would kill the game because the players would be paid way too much and they wouldn't feel the same loyalty to a specific team or city anymore. And, people who said that may not be entirely wrong, and maybe the passion didn't feel as intense as it was before, but baseball didn't go away. People didn't stop going to games. Diehard baseball fans probably felt more effected by it than regular people who just like going to a ballgame and being outside, but that's just it. Most people are not diehards. They just sort of shrugged, and went with it, and probably didn't really care all that much.

I think it will be the same with college sports. The Dodgers are leaving Brooklyn (metaphorically speaking). It won't be the same. For many of us it won't feel the same. The passion won't feel as high as it did before. But...it will still exist and it will still be popular.

[drudy23]

I'll bet it matters to more fans than you think. I moved to Cincinnati many, many years ago after graduating from college. I was a real college basketball fan and naturally gravitated to U.C. because I had heard of U.C. I barely knew Xavier existed. But after a few years of following the Ed Badger coached Bearcats, I began to sense something was different about Xavier. I identified with the Jesuit values around education (even though I'm not a Fisheater) and at that time, and for sometime after, Xavier made a big deal about graduating their players. No doubt, you've noticed the banner hanging from Cintas for Sister Fleming. I identified with that. I respected that about Xavier. The institution was about education; about helping athletes become productive citizens. It was easy for me to identify with X. They were the good guys.

There is almost no mention made today regarding academics. I recall Nunge received his master's degree in accounting. a real subject. Other than that, I never hear anything about number of players we graduate or their degrees. That isn't lost on me.

I think the more that Xavier basketball drifts toward NIL, the transfer portal, players who do not value (or perhaps even participate in) the institution's educational mission, the less connected fans will be to the program. I can sense this already from people I know who are also season ticket holders. And, I question, very seriously, if basketball can remain "the front porch" for Xavier University if players aren't even students.

It may not matter to XVille but I think it is important to many of us who have long supported the Muskies.

I don't think fans will care. Most realistic people know that basketball has always been priority #1 for these players. I don't care if David West got straight A's or not.

I think it will have more impact on the level of pride for the player. There are a lot of proud former X players. That's a good thing. A really good thing. You don't want to lose that if someone isn't as indoctrinated into the college culture.

At the end of the day, fans have to be open to change. There are alot of people in Cincinnati who simply can't get out of the past, and it hurts when new visions are needed to compete. See it at all levels of sports in this city. It's way too consumed with the glory days.

[MHettel]

Aren't the two bolden comments sort of contradicting one another??

It absolutely does matter to some people. It may matter to more Xavier fans than to fans of other programs. But that's not necessarily a reflection of the entire college sports landscape. If you look at the University of Michigan, which is actually renowned for its academics, I bet their football stadium would still be full if many of the players were no longer students. I bet the TV ratings would be about the same. I bet the media deals for the Big Ten and SEC would be about the same.

I don't know if this is the best example or not, but about fifty years ago in professional baseball the reserve clause was abolished and free agency became a thing. Many said it would kill the game because the players would be paid way too much and they wouldn't feel the same loyalty to a specific team or city anymore. And, people who said that may not be entirely wrong, and maybe the passion didn't feel as intense as it was before, but baseball didn't go away. People didn't stop going to games. Diehard baseball fans probably felt more effected by it than regular people who just like going to a ballgame and being outside, but that's just it. Most people are not diehards. They just sort of shrugged, and went with it, and probably didn't really care all that much.

I think it will be the same with college sports. The Dodgers are leaving Brooklyn (metaphorically speaking). It won't be the same. For many of us it won't feel the same. The passion won't feel as high as it did before. But...it will still exist and it will still be popular.

2 counterpoints.

The risk is not whether existing fans will keep going to games. The risk is whether the interest level will never be enough to recruit the next wave of fans

Baseball used to be the National pastime. It’s now 3rd among the major sports and possibly behind college football and the UFC as well. It took a while but the economics are irreparably broken. The dodgers and Yankees just played in the World Series. New York and LA. The largest and richest markets in the country. It has become exactly what people feared. And this is AFTER corrective actions like labor strikes salary caps and luxury taxes. Baseball is about the worst comparison that can be made.

[nickgyp]

I don't think fans will care. Most realistic people know that basketball has always been priority #1 for these players. I don't care if David West got straight A's or not.

I think it will have more impact on the level of pride for the player. There are a lot of proud former X players. That's a good thing. A really good thing. You don't want to lose that if someone isn't as indoctrinated into the college culture.

At the end of the day, fans have to be open to change. There are a lot of people in Cincinnati who simply can't get out of the past, and it hurts when new visions are needed to compete. See it at all levels of sports in this city. It's way too consumed with the glory days.

Whether fans care in the future and to what depth is open to debate but I imagine there are a lot of Buckeye fans thumping their chests today even though their only connection might be that OSU's uniforms look nice while others, it is because of their personal loyalties to the school and fondly recalling the magic of Archie Griffin winning two Heisman Trophies. (Just how much nostalgia is a bad thing?)

I will be lucky if I have another 20 twenty years on this planet; my replacement as a Xavier fan will most likely have entirely different reasons to follow the school. That is inevitable. I seriously doubt that in the long term whether Xavier can run with the big dogs. Change is coming but how the school adapts and its fanbase reacts is literally the million-dollar question.

If Xavier cannot keep up with the big dogs then how would fans react to a lesser product? The Moody Blues used to sing, "Why do we never get an answer when we are knocking at the door.... The answer seems to elude us all.

[Xville]

2 counterpoints.

The risk is not whether existing fans will keep going to games. The risk is whether the interest level will never be enough to recruit the next wave of fans

Baseball used to be the National pastime. It’s now 3rd among the major sports and possibly behind college football and the UFC as well. It took a while but the economics are irreparably broken. The dodgers and Yankees just played in the World Series. New York and LA. The largest and richest markets in the country. It has become exactly what people feared. And this is AFTER corrective actions like labor strikes salary caps and luxury taxes. Baseball is about the worst comparison that can be made.

Not to get too far off track but I think baseball will be headed toward a long strike after he next two seasons. It’s pretty broken imo. They need to go to a hard cap. The players union is going to fight it tooth and nail and but I think it’s going to have to happen for interest to not completely detoriate.

[drudy23]

Whether fans care in the future and to what depth is open to debate but I imagine there are a lot of Buckeye fans thumping their chests today even though their only connection might be that OSU's uniforms look nice while others, it is because of their personal loyalties to the school and fondly recalling the magic of Archie Griffin winning two Heisman Trophies. (Just how much nostalgia is a bad thing?)

I will be lucky if I have another 20 twenty years on this planet; my replacement as a Xavier fan will most likely have entirely different reasons to follow the school. That is inevitable. I seriously doubt that in the long term whether Xavier can run with the big dogs. Change is coming but how the school adapts and its fanbase reacts is literally the million-dollar question.

If Xavier cannot keep up with the big dogs then how would fans react to a lesser product? The Moody Blues used to sing, "Why do we never get an answer when we are knocking at the door.... The answer seems to elude us all.

I'm taking about when nostalgia gets the best of needed change. This city is notorious for holding onto the past when new ideas and ways forward emerge.

The past doesn't go away because you adapt to something new. Embrace it.

Nothing ever stays the same except Tu Holloway hitting clutch free throws.

[xubrew]

2 counterpoints.

The risk is not whether existing fans will keep going to games. The risk is whether the interest level will never be enough to recruit the next wave of fans

Baseball used to be the National pastime. It’s now 3rd among the major sports and possibly behind college football and the UFC as well. It took a while but the economics are irreparably broken. The dodgers and Yankees just played in the World Series. New York and LA. The largest and richest markets in the country. It has become exactly what people feared. And this is AFTER corrective actions like labor strikes salary caps and luxury taxes. Baseball is about the worst comparison that can be made.

I don't see how those are counterpoints. I don't really disagree with anything you said and don't feel it counters anything. I can see college football and basketball playing out very similarly. Baseball may not be the national pastime anymore, but it's still there. It's still sustainable, it's not going away, and owners still throw tons of money at it. College sports won't go away either. It may not be as popular, and it's hardcore fan base may diminish or change, and many (including myself) will feel that it's not nearly as good or as fun as it once was, but enough will still like it and still pay to watch it to where it will be popular enough to continue to exist with players who are paid and are not students.

[xudash]

I agree with Brew's statement:

I think it will be the same with college sports. The Dodgers are leaving Brooklyn (metaphorically speaking). It won't be the same. For many of us it won't feel the same. The passion won't feel as high as it did before. But...it will still exist and it will still be popular.

If I have one caveat, it focuses on the actual level of "passion" a fan may experience moving forward. If a fan's passion is tied to the school name on the uniform, then it probably isn't going to dip all that much. If a fan's "passion" is tethered to a larger degree to the notion of athletes who are still "student-athletes" and not pure paid employees, then I get it: that fan may still show up at the Cintas Center because they're a Xavier fan, but they rightfully feel more transactional about it.

Nonetheless, will college sports still be popular moving forward. Absolutely. In fact, after a generation or so moves through, it will be perceived as business as usual, because that will be all that they knew and know and experience. As long as the product on the field or court remain compelling and entertaining, college football and college basketball, in particular, should thrive. I know the following example is rather unrelated to all of this, but it still represents CHANGE: did anyone initially complain about the first tailgate parties? Drinking and eating in the stadium parking lot before games! Outrageous!! Well, look how that turned out. Some say that change is constant. Here we are again.

Just look at the recently completed 12-team format CFP. Has NIL and the Portal screwed up college football at the big boy end of the spectrum? No. Not even close. And certainly not if you are a member of the B1G or SEC club with an avid fanbase. Practically everyone is saying that the inaugural CFP 12-team playoff was a smashing success:

https://www.nbcnews.com/sports/college-football/college-football-playoff-success-notre-dame-ohio-state-rcna187532

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6071952/2025/01/20/college-football-playoff-expansion-year-one/

The ACC, Big XII and a few other schools still get to play in this game, at least for a while. I imagine every program in this group sees NIL and the Portal as field levelers, assuming they can operate at a highly sufficient degree in fundraising to at least win their conference championship and gain entry to the CFP.

I've begun thinking about viewing all of this as a spectrum, with the CFP types on one end and Division III type schools on the other.

Is anything going on at the other end of the spectrum? I was actually surprised to find the answer to that question is yes.

https://battlingbishops.com/sports/2021/8/25/NIL_Information.aspx?path=general

https://denisonian.com/2024/04/features/denison-alumnus-aims-to-secure-nil-deals-for-division-iii-athletes/

https://rollinssports.com/sports/2021/12/1/name-image-and-likeness-guide.aspx

Members of the "small" end of the spectrum are at least adhering to the rules that have been passed, and in some cases, like Denison, are trying to be creative about establishing compensation for small school athletes.

It will all move forward with a number of issues remaining to address.

- - - - - - -

If we flip the spectrum over to its basketball side, I believe we find Xavier situated towards the big boy end of the spectrum. Our PROGRAM and our CONFERENCE AFFILIATION warrant that treatment.

I like that we are a basketball only school in this evolving world. So, we have a comparatively smaller alumni base. But the lesser FBS schools have to spend on football NIL, and we don't - Ohio State simply upped the ante into orbit with their $20.5 million "payroll" this year.

Otherwise, as pointed out earlier, most FBS school operate on a deficit - subsidy - basis. It is going to continue to be bloody expensive to play football at the FBS level, especially if a school is serious about shooting for the CFP.

I'm not suggesting that we are near the top of basketball NIL or that we can ever get to the top of basketball NIL. I simply believe we are positioned to be competitive moving forward, and X's overall hoops finances will get a bump when the new media deal kicks in. The stakes are getting higher, but we have a window of opportunity to continue our development in this area. I understand that we'll need to attract the kind of talent that normally expects to have some form of pro career post graduation. Some of these kids want an education AND a pro career. Hello Colby Jones. Maybe X settles in to finding a way to have a mix of student-athletes and employee players who come together in a common mission to win BE Championships and experience deep runs in the NCAAT.

[kane79]

I think the real question here is, if the NCAA cant determine eligibility or how many years a player can play, would Paul Scruggs still be on the team? is he sitting somewhere waiting for his chance to come back?

[OTRMUSKIE]

Let them major in basketball. There is no reason you can’t set up a degree that teaches the kids fundamentals of coaching, recruiting, accounting side of sports. College is meant to prepare you for life after college. If you goal is to play in the NBA or Europe then teach them skills they can use. Teach them on why not to impregnate multiple woman you arnt married too. There is so many life skills that these kids can learn.

[JTG]

Let them major in basketball. There is no reason you can’t set up a degree that teaches the kids fundamentals of coaching, recruiting, accounting side of sports. College is meant to prepare you for life after college. If you goal is to play in the NBA or Europe then teach them skills they can use. Teach them on why not to impregnate multiple woman you arnt married too. There is so many life skills that these kids can learn.
This actually sounds like a pretty good idea. Not sure it would fly at ND or Stanford or some other places.

[xu82]

This actually sounds like a pretty good idea. Not sure it would fly at ND or Stanford or some other places.

How would the Harvard of the Midwest feel about it?

[xubrew]

Let them major in basketball. There is no reason you can’t set up a degree that teaches the kids fundamentals of coaching, recruiting, accounting side of sports. College is meant to prepare you for life after college. If you goal is to play in the NBA or Europe then teach them skills they can use. Teach them on why not to impregnate multiple woman you arnt married too. There is so many life skills that these kids can learn.

Any school that wanted to could have done this all along. It's just that most academic curriculums are made up by the faculty and department chairs who are actual academics and are not all that interested in sports and would think it to be absurd to offer such a degree program.