College Basketball Season 2024-2025

[xubrew]

The first open exhibition games of the season are this Sunday! And you can actually watch one of them if you have BTN Plus! So, college basketball is back!! (sort of).

https://hoopshd.com/exhibition-games-2024-2025/.

[xubrew]

I didn't realize that Michigan State was the road team yesterday until the game started. I guess Tom Izzo went to Northern Michigan. They played the game in their football complex, and they had a really good crowd. The game itself made you want to gouge your eyes out, but it was still kinda cool to see.

UConn at Rhody tonight!!

Along those lines, anyone notice that the Big East will go on the road and play A10 schools so long as it's all for charity???

[paulxu]

Playing Dayton is definitely charity.

[xubrew]

the preseason AP poll comes out today.

I know the don't mean anything, but i still find interesting. If you have that attitude, then they're actually kind of fun to look at.

[xubrew]

https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll

[GoMuskies]

Pat Kelsey has already moved Louisville up from like 250th in the country to receiving 4 top 25 votes!

So UC is supposed to be better than Xavier this year?!? I guess we'll see.

[bjf123]

So UC is supposed to be better than Xavier this year?!? I guess we'll see.

I saw John Fanta’s ranking the other day. He had X at either 17 or 18 and UC one back at 18 or 19.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xubrew]

Memphis can always play well when it doesn’t matter!!

[xubrew]

Tony Bennett has retired. Virginia will officially announce it tomorrow.

[GoMuskies]

Tony Bennett has retired. Virginia will officially announce it tomorrow.

Health? Or manipulating the school into giving his assistant the job?

Those seem to be the two options on October 17th. I guess scandal is the third option, but he doesn't seem the type.

[xubrew]

Health? Or manipulating the school into giving his assistant the job?

Those seem to be the two options on October 17th. I guess scandal is the third option, but he doesn't seem the type.

Perhaps both.

[MHettel]

Health? Or manipulating the school into giving his assistant the job?

Those seem to be the two options on October 17th. I guess scandal is the third option, but he doesn't seem the type.

Maybe he caught a case of the Jay Wright flu. or the Roy Williams flu.

[Xville]

Maybe he realized finally that kids don’t want to play 1940s style basketball

[noteggs]

Timing is very odd. Guess we’ll find out tomorrow. Don’t know what would be worse for us, losing our starting center or HC in October? I’m going with HC…

Edit: Rumor has it because of NIL and transfer portal.

[JTG]

Perhaps both.

Speaking of scandal, IU h a s 3 former players so far, suing t h e school and it's former team Dr. for sexual abuse. Apparently it was wide spread, and a type of initiation exam where the good doc was doing needless and prolonged probing of players aholes . They would report him but it was ignored. Big surprise, this was during Knight's tenure at IU.

[Xville]

Maybe he caught a case of the Jay Wright flu. or the Roy Williams flu.

He probably does, but Roy Williams along with coach k and saban had “oh crap now everyone is getting paid” disease. Their “competitive edge” was gone

[MHettel]

He probably does, but Roy Williams along with coach k and saban had “oh crap now everyone is getting paid” disease. Their “competitive edge” was gone

Ahh, the oldest trope there is.

Funny how all these guys received all these payments for all these years and yet everyone involved in making a payment, facilitating a payment, and receiving a payment have kept their mouths shut this entire time. Thats unbelievable.

Literally. Unbelievable.

[MHettel]

Timing is very odd. Guess we’ll find out tomorrow. Don’t know what would be worse for us, losing our starting center or HC in October? I’m going with HC…

Edit: Rumor has it because of NIL and transfer portal.

the comments in the article very clearly point to the portal and NIL. Bennett even specifically discusses Jay Wright just a couple weeks ago.

[Xville]

Ahh, the oldest trope there is.

Funny how all these guys received all these payments for all these years and yet everyone involved in making a payment, facilitating a payment, and receiving a payment have kept their mouths shut this entire time. Thats unbelievable.

Literally. Unbelievable.

Yeah you’re right. Williams facilitated kids going to fake classes at unc, it’s a giant leap he was paying kids. Kansas was on probation right before he became coach. I’m sure Kansas just cleaned up their act once he became coach lol. Oh, except that whole fbi thing whoops. Come on man. There’s been more than enough smoke around all these programs for decades. If you truly believe all those kids went to those schools without bags you are naive as hell.

[GoMuskies]

Williams facilitated kids going to fake classes? Where did you come up with that? That whole thing was an open secret that the entire student body was in on. That wasn't an athletics scandal. It was way worse than that.

[Xville]

Williams facilitated kids going to fake classes? Where did you come up with that? That whole thing was an open secret that the entire student body was in on. That wasn't an athletics scandal. It was way worse than that.

Yeah fair enough. My point is that kind of stuff was going on at the school, but yet athletes weren’t being paid? Come on. to think these kids weren’t all getting paid at thee big schools is hysterical and ignorant. Wooden had a bag man, almost all of these schools have been in trouble at one time or another for paying kids. I guess these were just one offs and the ncaa caught them every time. It’s mind blowing to me that someone actually believes these kods werent getting paid.

[xubrew]

Ahh, the oldest trope there is.

Funny how all these guys received all these payments for all these years and yet everyone involved in making a payment, facilitating a payment, and receiving a payment have kept their mouths shut this entire time. Thats unbelievable.

Literally. Unbelievable.

Uhh....no they didn't. Most players and agents would openly brag about it. Have you completely forgotten about the whole FBI raid and how people went to prison?? Have you forgotten the NCAA's hilariously stupid response of calling in Condoleezza Rice to head up a task force?? That still sounds like something out of a farcical comedy. I guess Chuck Norris wasn't available. Having him do it would have been no less ridiculous.

Anyway, the whole thing was pretty conspicuous and pretty out in the open. No one was keeping their mouths shut, and if you asked people who played or coached they'd probably just tell you straight out now. HBO made a documentary about it. The people in it do not keep their mouths shut. Check it out...

https://www.hbo.com/movies/the-scheme

[xubrew]

I dug back through some of the archives. Looking back now, the NCAA really did have a chance to get ahold of this in the year or two that followed the FBI raids. I mean, they REALLY did.

http://www.xavierhoops.com/showthread.php?32225-FBI-has-arrested-several-NCAA-asst-basketball-coaches-in-a-corruption-scheme/page11&highlight=xubrew+agents

What if they would have done this??

Recognized SAAC as a representative body of student-athletes (which it is), and actually included them in the talks of reform.

-They offer to implement the one-time transfer exception for all sports, but keep the Year in Residency in place for players who transfer mulitple times. Back in 2019 SAAC would have agreed.

-Continue to offer cost of living, but on top of that allow schools to match it (essentially double it) if they chose to, and allow an allotment of NCAA Tournament revenue that already goes to each school and have it designated to go to the players directly. SAAC would have agreed.

-Allow for players to have NIL deals, but put parameters on it to help maintain competitive balance. SAAC would have agreed.

Imagine college sports today had that occurred. The NCAA wouldn't be losing billions of dollars in court cases, and they wouldn't have lost complete control of their rules due to the courts (including a 9-0 unanimous ruling from the SCOTUS) telling them that their rules were illegal and violated antitrust laws. They WOULDN'T have violated antitrust laws had they negotiated them with SAAC and come to an agreement.

But, instead they decided to die on the hill that they died on, and we are where we are today because of it. Free agency for hire. There are no rules to stop a player from transferring during the season. Pretty soon we will be seeing that.

[Xville]

Uhh....no they didn't. Most players and agents would openly brag about it. Have you completely forgotten about the whole FBI raid and how people went to prison?? Have you forgotten the NCAA's hilariously stupid response of calling in Condoleezza Rice to head up a task force?? That still sounds like something out of a farcical comedy. I guess Chuck Norris wasn't available. Having him do it would have been no less ridiculous.

Anyway, the whole thing was pretty conspicuous and pretty out in the open. No one was keeping their mouths shut, and if you asked people who played or coached they'd probably just tell you straight out now. HBO made a documentary about it. The people in it do not keep their mouths shut. Check it out...

https://www.hbo.com/movies/the-scheme

Geez thank you. Its like people have been living under a rock for the last 60 plus years. I'm sure that the only shoe company cheating was Adidas...insert eyeroll here.

I know off the top of my head Rex Champan has come out and said he got offered a few hundred k from multiple schools during his recruitment. He must have been the only one.

[xubrew]

Geez thank you. Its like people have been living under a rock for the last 60 plus years. I'm sure that the only shoe company cheating was Adidas...insert eyeroll here.

I know off the top of my head Rex Champan has come out and said he got offered a few hundred k from multiple schools during his recruitment. He must have been the only one.

Yeah, Rex Chapman has been very open about that. That particular incident was way before my time, though.

I remember when Miami got blasted for lack of institutional control and it turns out the basketball team had been receiving improper benefits for like a ten year span. I think they made it to like one NCAA Tournament in that timeframe. Not exactly a pipeline of NBA talent, yet they were all getting paid despite not being that good. So, it wasn't just the five star all world players. It was also mediocre players on mediocre teams.

[Xville]

Yeah, Rex Chapman has been very open about that. That particular incident was way before my time, though.

I remember when Miami got blasted for lack of institutional control and it turns out the basketball team had been receiving improper benefits for like a ten year span. I think they made it to like one NCAA Tournament in that timeframe. Not exactly a pipeline of NBA talent, yet they were all getting paid despite not being that good. So, it wasn't just the five star all world players. It was also mediocre players on mediocre teams.

My guess is that what has really changed is 1.) the transfer portal--admittedly its a bit of a mess but some whiny coaches don't want to deal with it because their multimillionaire job is now harder. 2.) The money is now right in front of their face almost every single day, and in some cases the schools' "competitve edge" is gone. I'm sure before all this, the coaches set up their bag men within the school and they were for the most part hands off even though they were very well aware of it happening. Now, they have to deal with it front and center all day everyday especially at places like Bama football, Duke basketball etc.

[xubrew]

My guess is that what has really changed is 1.) the transfer portal--admittedly its a bit of a mess but some whiny coaches don't want to deal with it because their multimillionaire job is now harder. 2.) The money is now right in front of their face almost every single day, and in some cases the schools' "competitve edge" is gone. I'm sure before all this, the coaches set up their bag men within the school and they were for the most part hands off even though they were very well aware of it happening. Now, they have to deal with it front and center all day everyday especially at places like Bama football, Duke basketball etc.

My own impression is that from...say...2005 through 2019 (and probably longer) most of the so-called "bag men" came from the agencies. It was apparel companies giving money to agencies because they wanted access to their clients. Agents then gave them out to players and coaches to try and solicit the players as future clients. And, it ran most rampant in basketball. Basketball is a global game, and while very few of them are NBA talents, more than half of D1 players can (and do) make money playing professionally somewhere. And, coaches who had those relationships with the agencies were able to entice players to play for them. Look at some of the schools from that era, and you'll notice that at some of the schools that literally ALL the players that were pro prospects signed deals with the same agency, and did so almost immediately. Yeah...not suspicious!!

For years and years everyone talked about World Wide Wes as if he were the boogie man. IMHO, he really wasn't. He may have had no regard at all for NCAA rules, but he also had nothing to do with the NCAA. And, he never really cheated the guys he worked with. The FBI didn't really go after him like they did a bunch of other agencies and agents. He really wasn't breaking the law. I mean from most accounts that I've heard he's actually a pretty decent guy.

[GoMuskies]

When Wes was bringing Camden guys to Louisville in the '80s, he was a great guy. When he started sending those Camden guys to Calipari, he obviously became a huge asshole.

[xubrew]

When Wes was bringing Camden guys to Louisville in the '80s, he was a great guy. When he started sending those Camden guys to Calipari, he obviously became a huge asshole.

I guess I never thought of it that way...

[xubrew]

Anyway, back to discussing meaningless preseason games...

Rutgers looked like a team with a bunch of talented freshmen that are still adjusting to D1 and to each other. They are clearly better, but were very streaky last night looking really good in spurts and really awful at other times. They'll still be fun to watch this year.

Hampton also lost to a nonD1 team. I don't know that much about Hampton but I'm thinking that can't be a good sign.

[xubrew]

Ohio State at Cincinnati tonight. But, unless you buy a ticket you won't see it. So, I won't see it.

[MHettel]

Basketball is a global game, and while very few of them are NBA talents, more than half of D1 players can (and do) make money playing professionally somewhere. .

I'm definitely gonna fact check that.

There are 375 schools, right? 13 players each? 4875 players. Lets assume 25% "move on" from college each year. Thats 1218. And you are saying 50% of them play professional basketball....so 609? Thats 47 full rosters of 13 players each.

How many leagues are there? And thats just the US players. And if they play 3,4,5....10 years? Lets just say an average player plays 4 years. Thats 188 complete rosters made up of active US born players playing internationally.

I'd say probably closer to 15 to 20% of guys play for pay after college.

Not that its relevant to this discussion, but you state it as fact and it's just absurdly overstated.

[Final4]

I'm definitely gonna fact check that.

There are 375 schools, right? 13 players each? 4875 players. Lets assume 25% "move on" from college each year. Thats 1218. And you are saying 50% of them play professional basketball....so 609? Thats 47 full rosters of 13 players each.

How many leagues are there? And thats just the US players. And if they play 3,4,5....10 years? Lets just say an average player plays 4 years. Thats 188 complete rosters made up of active US born players playing internationally.

I'd say probably closer to 15 to 20% of guys play for pay after college.

Not that its relevant to this discussion, but you state it as fact and it's just absurdly overstated.

You probably should have done your fact checking before you wrote this.......how does that shoe leather taste.

[Xville]

I'm definitely gonna fact check that.

There are 375 schools, right? 13 players each? 4875 players. Lets assume 25% "move on" from college each year. Thats 1218. And you are saying 50% of them play professional basketball....so 609? Thats 47 full rosters of 13 players each.

How many leagues are there? And thats just the US players. And if they play 3,4,5....10 years? Lets just say an average player plays 4 years. Thats 188 complete rosters made up of active US born players playing internationally.

I'd say probably closer to 15 to 20% of guys play for pay after college.

Not that its relevant to this discussion, but you state it as fact and it's just absurdly overstated.

Yikes. You don’t realize just how many professional leagues around the world are. It’s around 100 give or take. There’s an estimated 70k playing professional basketball at any given time. Your last sentence is very very wrong.

[xubrew]

I'm definitely gonna fact check that.

There are 375 schools, right? 13 players each? 4875 players. Lets assume 25% "move on" from college each year. Thats 1218. And you are saying 50% of them play professional basketball....so 609? Thats 47 full rosters of 13 players each.

How many leagues are there? And thats just the US players. And if they play 3,4,5....10 years? Lets just say an average player plays 4 years. Thats 188 complete rosters made up of active US born players playing internationally.

I'd say probably closer to 15 to 20% of guys play for pay after college.

Not that its relevant to this discussion, but you state it as fact and it's just absurdly overstated.

I'll fact check it for you.

Over 20 percent of all college basketball players in all 3 NCAA divisions play professionally. 48% of the draft cohort, which keep in mind is more than just D1, goes on to play professionally. That's according to the NCAA's research.

Basically it's a safe bet that in basketball pretty much any D1 starter will get the chance to play. And then some. The study they ran before this actually indicated a slightly higher percentage, but this still makes the point.

https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2015/3/6/men-s-basketball-probability-of-competing-beyond-high-school.aspx


We estimate that 48% of the 2023 Division I draft cohort will compete professionally (NBA, G-League or internationally) in their first year post college (calculated as [46 + 540] / 1,226). We also estimate that 63% of the 2023 draft cohort from the five Division I conferences with autonomous governance (ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and SEC) will play professionally somewhere during the 2023-24 season (calculated as [31 + 111] / 226).

[Xville]

I think lost in all of this is that Bennett is a pos for doing this at this time. Ya wanna quit? Fine, finish the season and don’t f everyone on the way out.

[X-band '01]

Virginia ranks what, #351 in KenPom for slowest tempo in the country? It would stand to reason that Bennett would take forever to make a decision to retire just prior to the beginning of the year.

(And yes, I'm sure that's been posted on social media somewhere out there in the Wild Wild West of the interwebs)

[MHettel]

Yikes. You don’t realize just how many professional leagues around the world are. It’s around 100 give or take. There’s an estimated 70k playing professional basketball at any given time. Your last sentence is very very wrong.

Math Check!

Ok, 70,000 estimated (by who?) players playing pro around the world in 100 leagues. Thats 700 players in each league. 13 players per team. 54 teams per league?

I mean did you just throw some numbers out there?

The NBA is probably one of the bigger leagues in the world and it has 32 teams and less than 450 players.

ESPN ranks the international leagues; Spain has 17 teams, Turkey has 16, Russia has 18, Germany has 18, Italy has 16, France has 18, Adriatic League (Whatever the fuck that is) has 14, Greece has 14, Australia has 8, Lithuania has 10, China has 20. Thats 169 teams so probably 2,200 players. So now we only need to figure out where the other 67,800 players play.

Lets peek at some rosters! 5 random teams from these aforementioned leagues

Gran Canaria from Spain's Liga ACB- 1 American out of 12.
TianJin from China- 4 of 19 (its the Tianjin Pioneers by the way, which makes alot of sense)
Wurzburg Germany- 4 of 13
Fenerbahce Turkey- 5 of 17
Zenit from Russia- 4 of 13

so 18 out of 74. Thats 24%. Im sure the actual number is +/- 3%. Lest go with 25%. That means 550 americans are playing in the 12 best leagues that are not the NBA.

When I sample some ages, I get: 30,29,26,29, 29, 28, 31, 29, 28, 26,28,27

So this suggests that these guys are playing MORE than 4 years. So were pumping 610 new guys into the system annually, and they are sticking around
for maybe 5.5 years on average then that means we have about 3300 guys playing around the world. lets back out 350 NBA guys and also the estimated 550 in the other 12 best leagues in the world.

That leaves us with 87 remaining leagues with 67,450 players of which 2,400 of them must be american. (this also suggests there are now 60 teams per league left).

lets sample a couple!

Chile- 14 teams. Valvida....no Americans. Liceo Pablo Neruda..... 1 american. Las Animas.....no Americans

Denmark- 11 teams. Horsens....4 of 14. Randers... 5 of 13. Copenhagen....0 of 14

South Korea- 10 teams. Wonju DB....5 of 17. Ko Gas....0 of 11


Ok that took forever. Bottom line is that either there are 100 leagues around the world with FAR fewer than 70,000 players (I'd estimate each league had 15 teams with 14 players...so 21,000 international players) OR there are more like 333 leagues with 15 teams and 14 players to get to 70,000 international players.

And back to the original point that the US is producing 610 of these guys each year that stick around for multiple years would mean that weve got around 3300 of 21000 international players in the world. 16%.

I'm gonna go ahead and hold my ground on this one.

[paulxu]

MHet...you gotta get a job.

[paulxu]

Tony Bennett: "The game and college athletics are not in a healthy spot. I think I was equipped to do the job the old way."

[Xville]

Math Check!

Ok, 70,000 estimated (by who?) players playing pro around the world in 100 leagues. Thats 700 players in each league. 13 players per team. 54 teams per league?

I mean did you just throw some numbers out there?

The NBA is probably one of the bigger leagues in the world and it has 32 teams and less than 450 players.

ESPN ranks the international leagues; Spain has 17 teams, Turkey has 16, Russia has 18, Germany has 18, Italy has 16, France has 18, Adriatic League (Whatever the fuck that is) has 14, Greece has 14, Australia has 8, Lithuania has 10, China has 20. Thats 169 teams so probably 2,200 players. So now we only need to figure out where the other 67,800 players play.

Lets peek at some rosters! 5 random teams from these aforementioned leagues

Gran Canaria from Spain's Liga ACB- 1 American out of 12.
TianJin from China- 4 of 19 (its the Tianjin Pioneers by the way, which makes alot of sense)
Wurzburg Germany- 4 of 13
Fenerbahce Turkey- 5 of 17
Zenit from Russia- 4 of 13

so 18 out of 74. Thats 24%. Im sure the actual number is +/- 3%. Lest go with 25%. That means 550 americans are playing in the 12 best leagues that are not the NBA.

When I sample some ages, I get: 30,29,26,29, 29, 28, 31, 29, 28, 26,28,27

So this suggests that these guys are playing MORE than 4 years. So were pumping 610 new guys into the system annually, and they are sticking around
for maybe 5.5 years on average then that means we have about 3300 guys playing around the world. lets back out 350 NBA guys and also the estimated 550 in the other 12 best leagues in the world.

That leaves us with 87 remaining leagues with 67,450 players of which 2,400 of them must be american. (this also suggests there are now 60 teams per league left).

lets sample a couple!

Chile- 14 teams. Valvida....no Americans. Liceo Pablo Neruda..... 1 american. Las Animas.....no Americans

Denmark- 11 teams. Horsens....4 of 14. Randers... 5 of 13. Copenhagen....0 of 14

South Korea- 10 teams. Wonju DB....5 of 17. Ko Gas....0 of 11


Ok that took forever. Bottom line is that either there are 100 leagues around the world with FAR fewer than 70,000 players (I'd estimate each league had 15 teams with 14 players...so 21,000 international players) OR there are more like 333 leagues with 15 teams and 14 players to get to 70,000 international players.

And back to the original point that the US is producing 610 of these guys each year that stick around for multiple years would mean that weve got around 3300 of 21000 international players in the world. 16%.

I'm gonna go ahead and hold my ground on this one.

Brew already showed you the data. Stand your ground all you want, you’re wrong. About every single “civilized” country has a pro league many have at least two. Spain itself has like four pro leagues (built like soccer) with about 80 teams in the first 3 divisions and something like 100 in the 4th alone because they are subdivided like the lowest English soccer pro league , Kunkel is playing in one of them. Congrats on wasting your time trying to prove some kind of point after the ncaa did the work for you. I mean what’s more realistic, the ncaa with all their data is wrong, or you with a makeshift worksheet that didn’t include a ton of leagues in your math?

You may also want to realize that just because they aren’t American, doesn’t mean they didn’t play in the ncaa. There are plenty out there

[Xville]

Tony Bennett: "The game and college athletics are not in a healthy spot. I think I was equipped to do the job the old way."

Maybe he should have realized that two weeks before the season.

[xubrew]

Ok, 70,000 estimated (by who?) players playing pro around the world in 100 leagues. Thats 700 players in each league. 13 players per team. 54 teams per league?

I have admittedly never seen this figure before, but 70,000 does sound right. If you type the question "How many professional basketball players are there in the world?" into Google, this is what you get...

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+professional+basketball+players+ are+there+in+the+world&rlz=1C5GCEM_en&oq=how+many+professional+basketball+players+are+th ere+in+the+world&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyDwgAEEUYORiRAhiABBiKBTIICAEQAB gWGB4yCAgCEAAYFhgeMggIAxAAGBYYHjIICAQQABgWGB7SAQg3 NTg3ajBqN6gCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


ESPN ranks the international leagues; Spain has 17 teams, Turkey has 16, Russia has 18, Germany has 18, Italy has 16, France has 18, Adriatic League (Whatever the fuck that is) has 14, Greece has 14, Australia has 8, Lithuania has 10, China has 20. Thats 169 teams so probably 2,200 players. So now we only need to figure out where the other 67,800 players play.

Those are almost assuredly just the top divisions, or the premier divisions, or whatever the hell they call them. It's a pyramid setup. (okay, you probably don't even know what that means). Teams can go up and down. They can be promoted to a higher league for playing well, and relegated to a lower league for playing poorly. Check out Eurobasket's site and look at all the team's in the pyramid. You say Spain has 17 teams (the first on your list). It's actually a few more than that. Just a few...

https://www.eurobasket.com/Spain/basketball-Teams.aspx

That's just Spain. Feel free to look up all of the other countries.

Eurobasket has a top 100. It's their top 25, only it's 100 instead of 25. Pretty much anyone on any of those 100 teams is probably making a comfortable living playing basketball. Not everyone in the 5th division of Denmark (or wherever) is making a living, but it's way more than what you've accounted for.


I mean did you just throw some numbers out there?

The only person that's throwing numbers out there is you. Everyone else is citing data, or citing what they know to be true and can be backed up with data. You haven't just been wrong. You're SPECTACULARLY wrong! The idea that Spain only has 17 professional basketball teams, and that Germany only has 18, is so hilariously wrong that I don't even know what to compare it to. As amusing as this has all been, you really should quit acting like no one but you knows what they're talking about. You're really the only one that DOESN'T!

And, just between us...how long did you spend tabulating all that?? You know you could have found the actual data in about ninety seconds, right? Actually, you probably don't know that. Sorry I asked.

[xubrew]

I'll fact check it for you.

Over 20 percent of all college basketball players in all 3 NCAA divisions play professionally. 48% of the draft cohort, which keep in mind is more than just D1, goes on to play professionally. That's according to the NCAA's research.

Basically it's a safe bet that in basketball pretty much any D1 starter will get the chance to play. And then some. The study they ran before this actually indicated a slightly higher percentage, but this still makes the point.

https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2015/3/6/men-s-basketball-probability-of-competing-beyond-high-school.aspx

It just dawned on me why the percentage has gone down some. I bet it's because no one from the United States is signing up to play in Russia anymore.

[Xville]

I saw Xavier won tonight.. 1-0 good guys. Don’t worry about who they played.

In all seriousness saw that both free and hunter scored buckets. Great to see!

[MHettel]

I have admittedly never seen this figure before, but 70,000 does sound right. If you type the question "How many professional basketball players are there in the world?" into Google, this is what you get...

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+professional+basketball+players+ are+there+in+the+world&rlz=1C5GCEM_en&oq=how+many+professional+basketball+players+are+th ere+in+the+world&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyDwgAEEUYORiRAhiABBiKBTIICAEQAB gWGB4yCAgCEAAYFhgeMggIAxAAGBYYHjIICAQQABgWGB7SAQg3 NTg3ajBqN6gCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8



Those are almost assuredly just the top divisions, or the premier divisions, or whatever the hell they call them. It's a pyramid setup. (okay, you probably don't even know what that means). Teams can go up and down. They can be promoted to a higher league for playing well, and relegated to a lower league for playing poorly. Check out Eurobasket's site and look at all the team's in the pyramid. You say Spain has 17 teams (the first on your list). It's actually a few more than that. Just a few...

https://www.eurobasket.com/Spain/basketball-Teams.aspx

That's just Spain. Feel free to look up all of the other countries.

Eurobasket has a top 100. It's their top 25, only it's 100 instead of 25. Pretty much anyone on any of those 100 teams is probably making a comfortable living playing basketball. Not everyone in the 5th division of Denmark (or wherever) is making a living, but it's way more than what you've accounted for.



The only person that's throwing numbers out there is you. Everyone else is citing data, or citing what they know to be true and can be backed up with data. You haven't just been wrong. You're SPECTACULARLY wrong! The idea that Spain only has 17 professional basketball teams, and that Germany only has 18, is so hilariously wrong that I don't even know what to compare it to. As amusing as this has all been, you really should quit acting like no one but you knows what they're talking about. You're really the only one that DOESN'T!

And, just between us...how long did you spend tabulating all that?? You know you could have found the actual data in about ninety seconds, right? Actually, you probably don't know that. Sorry I asked.

I’m aware of how relegation etc works.

And my example of Spain is their top league. There are lower leagues as well. I never said there wasn’t. I cited the top 12 leagues in the world behind the NBA. A different league in Spain is a different league. That makes 2 leagues. See how that works! The statement is that there are 100 leagues with 70000 players, and those 2 numbers are not compatable.

Further if a former college kid wants to “play basketball for a living” then he’s gonna need to do it at one of the top leagues in the world. Nobody is finishing college so they can head over to the C league in Belgium where they need a part time job to make rent. I realize that there is some quality basketball around the world and Europe specifically. But the top leagues are almost always around 15 teams and the US makes up about 1/4 of those players.

And by the way providing data and analysis created by the NCAA just REEKS of a conflict of interest. Of course the NCAA is going to paint the rosiest picture possible about players eating a living in their sport after college.

[xubrew]

I’m aware of how relegation etc works.

And my example of Spain is their top league. There are lower leagues as well. I never said there wasn’t. I cited the top 12 leagues in the world behind the NBA. A different league in Spain is a different league. That makes 2 leagues. See how that works! The statement is that there are 100 leagues with 70000 players, and those 2 numbers are not compatable.

Further if a former college kid wants to “play basketball for a living” then he’s gonna need to do it at one of the top leagues in the world. Nobody is finishing college so they can head over to the C league in Belgium where they need a part time job to make rent. I realize that there is some quality basketball around the world and Europe specifically. But the top leagues are almost always around 15 teams and the US makes up about 1/4 of those players.

And by the way providing data and analysis created by the NCAA just REEKS of a conflict of interest. Of course the NCAA is going to paint the rosiest picture possible about players eating a living in their sport after college.

So you think the NCAA is falsifying their data? The NCAA couldn’t care less. They mostly care about grad rates and not so much what anyone does after they’re graduated.

I don’t know about the C league in Belgium, but in Italy a tyocall Serie C salary is about $3000 a month and most of the time their housing is provided. They’re not going to get rich, but it’s not a bad gig for a few years. It’s not the best entry level job out of college, but it’s far from the worst. Serie A salaries are pretty much low six figures at the lowest. It’s nowhere near what soccer makes, but it ain’t bad.

And feel free to fact check that. If it’s not spot on then I’m confident enough to say it’s close.

[MHettel]

So you think the NCAA is falsifying their data? The NCAA couldn’t care less. They mostly care about grad rates and not so much what anyone does after they’re graduated.

I don’t know about the C league in Belgium, but in Italy a tyocall Serie C salary is about $3000 a month and most of the time their housing is provided. They’re not going to get rich, but it’s not a bad gig for a few years. It’s not the best entry level job out of college, but it’s far from the worst. Serie A salaries are pretty much low six figures at the lowest. It’s nowhere near what soccer makes, but it ain’t bad.

And feel free to fact check that. If it’s not spot on then I’m confident enough to say it’s close.

Yes, I feel like the NCAA is trying to portray themselves in the most positive light. I won’t even begin to undermine their definition of a player that qualifies as “playing professionally”

So a kid that gets invited to tryout for the last team in the German league is a pro? Is that right? His options after not making said German team are to accept a role on their B team or take a job in Croatia. Or, go home and get a regular job and dominate the local YMCA. Does that guy count in your 50% metric? He got paid. Is he a professional? And if so, does it align to your interpretation of what it means when they tell you that 50% of the “draft cohort” plays overseas?

[paulxu]

Maybe he should have realized that two weeks before the season.

This. Not much has changed since the end of last season.

[Xville]

Yes, I feel like the NCAA is trying to portray themselves in the most positive light. I won’t even begin to undermine their definition of a player that qualifies as “playing professionally”

So a kid that gets invited to tryout for the last team in the German league is a pro? Is that right? His options after not making said German team are to accept a role on their B team or take a job in Croatia. Or, go home and get a regular job and dominate the local YMCA. Does that guy count in your 50% metric? He got paid. Is he a professional? And if so, does it align to your interpretation of what it means when they tell you that 50% of the “draft cohort” plays overseas?

I gotta admit, you really love to stick to your guns even when proven wrong. It’s really something. What are you even talking about? You didn’t believe there were over 100 pro leagues, there clearly are. Spain has 4, below that is semi-pro, etc. why does it now matter how much they make? The argument was number of pros that come from the ncaa. That is what you whined about. If you want to argue with yourself on what you believe to be “pro” then be my guest or whatever goal posts you want to move so you can feel good about being wrong.

NCAA has provided that data. If you don’t want to believe it because it doesn’t fit your argument that’s fine. I know you really have an issue with ever admitting being wrong, and will just move goalposts so it’s no surprise.


I’ll go with the ncaa and brew’s cited data with the 50ish percent number over your 15-20% way you feel.

If you want to just talk about the top 20 leagues and that’s your baseline, ok whatever you gotta do to make yourself right I guess.

[Xville]

Uc beat Ohio state by 18 last night. I guess they are going to be pretty good. Should be a very charged up crosstown shootout.

[xubrew]

Yes, I feel like the NCAA is trying to portray themselves in the most positive light. I won’t even begin to undermine their definition of a player that qualifies as “playing professionally”

So a kid that gets invited to tryout for the last team in the German league is a pro? Is that right? His options after not making said German team are to accept a role on their B team or take a job in Croatia. Or, go home and get a regular job and dominate the local YMCA. Does that guy count in your 50% metric? He got paid. Is he a professional? And if so, does it align to your interpretation of what it means when they tell you that 50% of the “draft cohort” plays overseas?

No. It’s someone that signs a contract and is activated. Those numbers actually can’t be inflated. A player is either on a roster and activated for a game, or they’re not. Trials teams do not count as professional appearances. That’s been tried by schools for APR reporting purposes, and it was denied. There must be documentation that they were activated for an actual professional game.

Again, you really look stupid when you try and come off as the only person that knows anything when it’s pretty clear you know nothing. You don’t even know how a professional player is defined, so you make up your own definition and act as if that’s how the NCAA collects their data. You’re hilariously wrong again.

[xubrew]

Uc beat Ohio state by 18 last night. I guess they are going to be pretty good. Should be a very charged up crosstown shootout.

Looks that way. I was kind of surprised when they cracked the preseason rankings. I thought they’d be better and have a good chance of making the tournament, but didn’t think they were quite a top 25 team. I guess they are.

[MHettel]

I gotta admit, you really love to stick to your guns even when proven wrong. It’s really something. What are you even talking about? You didn’t believe there were over 100 pro leagues, there clearly are. Spain has 4, below that is semi-pro, etc. why does it now matter how much they make? The argument was number of pros that come from the ncaa. That is what you whined about. If you want to argue with yourself on what you believe to be “pro” then be my guest or whatever goal posts you want to move so you can feel good about being wrong.

NCAA has provided that data. If you don’t want to believe it because it doesn’t fit your argument that’s fine. I know you really have an issue with ever admitting being wrong, and will just move goalposts so it’s no surprise.


I’ll go with the ncaa and brew’s cited data with the 50ish percent number over your 15-20% way you feel.

If you want to just talk about the top 20 leagues and that’s your baseline, ok whatever you gotta do to make yourself right I guess.

Where was it I mentioned that I didnt believe there are over 100 pro leagues? I re-read what i said. Couldnt find it. kindly point it out. As far as I can tell, you are the one that came up with that number.

I also checked one of those links that Brew provided. with the "how many pro basketball players in the world are there" google search and the response by that reputable website "quora" said there are 70,000. Quora is literally just some random message board, and there is no source whatsoever for the 70,000 estimate. XVILLE is this what you used when you threw out the 70K estimate?

Although its not specific about men or women.....and then one click away is a breakdown that reveals that 17.5% of pro players are women. But the 70,000 number sounds really good right. Not accurate necessarily, but easy and convenient!

And back to Brews original claim. "more than half of D1 players can (and do) make money playing professionally somewhere." I just wonder what is meant by "more than half." i mean 50.1% is more than half right. And so is 100%. So we have this giant range of what he may have meant, and that can be debated forever. but what cannot be debated is that it CANNOT be less than 50%.

That is what I objected to, right out of the gate. And I laid out my logic, using uh, just logic. I estimated far fewer than half.

Brew then comes through with some NCAA estimates that very clearly show they they expect 48% of D1 players will play professionally. But then he tries to say it's actually more. claiming that the draft cohort is "more than just D1". Which is patently false. In this same article just one paragraph above it references the stats for ALL NCAA Divisions is 21%.

The section that Brew cites has already reduced it to the D1 population. 48% is what the NCAA estimates. Last I checked it was below half, yes?

So my fact check, in fact, reveals that I am correct. I disputed that it was "more than half" and the final conclusions is that it is indeed less than half.

So am I wrong? My own estimate was low. I'll own that, that's fine. But my estimate was only used by myself in support of my gut instinct that the "more than half" claim was inaccurate. which it was.

I've successfully debunked the claim that more than half of D1 players play professionally. which is what I fact checked.

[xubrew]

At the time of the FBI raids, it was consistently more than half. There were years where it was actually slightly over 60%. If you want to fact check that then be my guest. I think two things have caused it to go down. The current state of Russia, and NIL changing the role and the influence that a lot of the agents used to have.

And getting back to the original point of a large percentage of players receiving improper benefits, the season would end, and guys that weren’t even starters for teams from one bid leagues were playing overseas and signing contracts within a matter of days, it’s kind of hard to not be suspicious. Did all that really happen in 48 hours, or was an agent already representing them? Why would they sign with a team they’ve never heard of in a country they knew nothing about within a span of 48 hours?? How does that happen?

They had agents while they were playing. They were receiving gifts and money from those agents. And many of them would just that out tell you that, especially once they’re done playing in college.

[Xville]

Where was it I mentioned that I didnt believe there are over 100 pro leagues? I re-read what i said. Couldnt find it. kindly point it out. As far as I can tell, you are the one that came up with that number.

I also checked one of those links that Brew provided. with the "how many pro basketball players in the world are there" google search and the response by that reputable website "quora" said there are 70,000. Quora is literally just some random message board, and there is no source whatsoever for the 70,000 estimate. XVILLE is this what you used when you threw out the 70K estimate?

Although its not specific about men or women.....and then one click away is a breakdown that reveals that 17.5% of pro players are women. But the 70,000 number sounds really good right. Not accurate necessarily, but easy and convenient!

And back to Brews original claim. "more than half of D1 players can (and do) make money playing professionally somewhere." I just wonder what is meant by "more than half." i mean 50.1% is more than half right. And so is 100%. So we have this giant range of what he may have meant, and that can be debated forever. but what cannot be debated is that it CANNOT be less than 50%.

That is what I objected to, right out of the gate. And I laid out my logic, using uh, just logic. I estimated far fewer than half.

Brew then comes through with some NCAA estimates that very clearly show they they expect 48% of D1 players will play professionally. But then he tries to say it's actually more. claiming that the draft cohort is "more than just D1". Which is patently false. In this same article just one paragraph above it references the stats for ALL NCAA Divisions is 21%.

The section that Brew cites has already reduced it to the D1 population. 48% is what the NCAA estimates. Last I checked it was below half, yes?

So my fact check, in fact, reveals that I am correct. I disputed that it was "more than half" and the final conclusions is that it is indeed less than half.

So am I wrong? My own estimate was low. I'll own that, that's fine. But my estimate was only used by myself in support of my gut instinct that the "more than half" claim was inaccurate. which it was.

I've successfully debunked the claim that more than half of D1 players play professionally. which is what I fact checked.

Oh ok you win by 2.1% congrats, except when you said you think it is 15-20%. You said more than half was absurd, I guess you’re right if absurd is off by 2.1% when you were off by 30. Again, congrats.


More than half is typically ya know more than 50, just for context. Would you have had the same meltdown if he said close to half? My guess is yes

[MHettel]

At the time of the FBI raids, it was consistently more than half. There were years where it was actually slightly over 60%. If you want to fact check that then be my guest. I think two things have caused it to go down. The current state of Russia, and NIL changing the role and the influence that a lot of the agents used to have.

And getting back to the original point of a large percentage of players receiving improper benefits, the season would end, and guys that weren’t even starters for teams from one bid leagues were playing overseas and signing contracts within a matter of days, it’s kind of hard to not be suspicious. Did all that really happen in 48 hours, or was an agent already representing them? Why would they sign with a team they’ve never heard of in a country they knew nothing about within a span of 48 hours?? How does that happen?

They had agents while they were playing. They were receiving gifts and money from those agents. And many of them would just that out tell you that, especially once they’re done playing in college.

I’m fine with having suspicion. But I’d be a lot more convinced if there were some facts. Facts that suggest a pattern.

What always gets presented are a truckload of suspicions, and then some leap that enough suspicion must make it a fact.

I found an article that says golden retriever dogs have killed 5 people since 2000. Those are actual facts, but they well short of changing the narrative that golden retrievers are safe friendly dogs. But they have killed prople.

So a story by Rex Chapman from 35 years ago is basically a golden retriever killing a person. And frankly Chapman is a big podcaster and that’s a great story even if it’s not true (wink, wink).

Bring some facts. I don’t want 5 golden retriever related deaths. I want to this giant pattern that apparently exists in spite of almost zero word leaking out.

By the way, do you concede the loss on the 50% or not? I see the attempt to pull the sleight of hand and say it used to be 60%. I guess I’ll fact check that too while I’m at it

[Xville]

I’m fine with having suspicion. But I’d be a lot more convinced if there were some facts. Facts that suggest a pattern.

What always gets presented are a truckload of suspicions, and then some leap that enough suspicion must make it a fact.

I found an article that says golden retriever dogs have killed 5 people since 2000. Those are actual facts, but they well short of changing the narrative that golden retrievers are safe friendly dogs. But they have killed prople.

So a story by Rex Chapman from 35 years ago is basically a golden retriever killing a person. And frankly Chapman is a big podcaster and that’s a great story even if it’s not true (wink, wink).

Bring some facts. I don’t want 5 golden retriever related deaths. I want to this giant pattern that apparently exists in spite of almost zero word leaking out.

By the way, do you concede the loss on the 50% or not? I see the attempt to pull the sleight of hand and say it used to be 60%. I guess I’ll fact check that too while I’m at it

Uh? Zero word? Seriously wtf is wrong with you? FBI raids, Miami on probation, Alabama on probation, uk on probation, unc on probation, Louisville on probation, Kansas on probation, pony express. I could go on and on and on and on about schools that have been on probation for the last six decades for providing money to players. Do you think those anre the only times that players have been paid? The ncaa caught it every single time? Apparently those aren’t enough facts for you lol. So ridiculous

[xubrew]

I’m fine with having suspicion. But I’d be a lot more convinced if there were some facts. Facts that suggest a pattern.

What always gets presented are a truckload of suspicions, and then some leap that enough suspicion must make it a fact.

I found an article that says golden retriever dogs have killed 5 people since 2000. Those are actual facts, but they well short of changing the narrative that golden retrievers are safe friendly dogs. But they have killed prople.

So a story by Rex Chapman from 35 years ago is basically a golden retriever killing a person. And frankly Chapman is a big podcaster and that’s a great story even if it’s not true (wink, wink).

Bring some facts. I don’t want 5 golden retriever related deaths. I want to this giant pattern that apparently exists in spite of almost zero word leaking out.

By the way, do you concede the loss on the 50% or not? I see the attempt to pull the sleight of hand and say it used to be 60%. I guess I’ll fact check that too while I’m at it

THE FBI RAIDED THE OFFICES OF THE AGENCIES AND SEVERAL OF THEM WENT TO PRISON!! That is a fact. If that does not suggest a pattern of crookedness then I don’t know what the hell does. Even if it were just 38% of college players that could turn pro (and we’ve shown that it’s WAAAY more than that), which is roughly anyone who was a starter, it still demonstrates how agents would target well over 1000 players every year. To say that didn’t happen, and to state that the reason it didn’t is because there’s no way they would all keep their mouths shut about it, is like saying there’s no way people shop online because whenever I go to the stores no one talks about shopping online. It’s a ridiculous take. And everyone following this thread can see that.

[xu82]

Some people just like to argue.

[xubrew]

To repeat, in case anyone missed it the first time, I already said it was 48% and that it was (now) lower than what I had originally mentioned. If that’s all you care about then there was no need to keep pressing the Lou g. If you find the 48% figure to be insufficient to the claim that thousands of players were vulnerable to being targeted by agents, then I think you’re insane.


I'll fact check it for you.

Over 20 percent of all college basketball players in all 3 NCAA divisions play professionally. 48% of the draft cohort, which keep in mind is more than just D1, goes on to play professionally. That's according to the NCAA's research.

Basically it's a safe bet that in basketball pretty much any D1 starter will get the chance to play. And then some. The study they ran before this actually indicated a slightly higher percentage, but this still makes the point.

https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2015/3/6/men-s-basketball-probability-of-competing-beyond-high-school.aspx

[Xville]

Some people just like to argue.

Hett digs in more than anyone on this board even when proven wrong I dunno if that’s admirable or just complete stupidity.

[MHettel]

Oh ok you win by 2.1% congrats, except when you said you think it is 15-20%. You said more than half was absurd, I guess you’re right if absurd is off by 2.1% when you were off by 30. Again, congrats.


More than half is typically ya know more than 50, just for context. Would you have had the same meltdown if he said close to half? My guess is yes

If I bet on a football game and the line is set at 50 and i take the under....

If its 48, I win.
If its 15, I still win.
I don't win any more or any less based on how much under the line the game was.

Walked right into that one, huh?

[MHettel]

More than half is typically ya know more than 50, just for context. Would you have had the same meltdown if he said close to half? My guess is yes

More than half is something between 50-100. Close to half has far less ambiguity. I dont know what my response would have been if he had said something that he didnt actually say instead of saying what he said.

All I know is that I fact checked him. and in the end, how did that work out?

[MHettel]

Hett digs in more than anyone on this board even when proven wrong I dunno if that’s admirable or just complete stupidity.

13-7 baby!

[MHettel]

To repeat, in case anyone missed it the first time, I already said it was 48% and that it was (now) lower than what I had originally mentioned. If that’s all you care about then there was no need to keep pressing the Lou g. If you find the 48% figure to be insufficient to the claim that thousands of players were vulnerable to being targeted by agents, then I think you’re insane.

You didnt say it was 48%. you cited the 48% and then suggested that it was higher than that becasue it included more than just D1. Which it didnt. So its 48. As in less than half.

[MHettel]

And I'll just wrap up my thoughts by saying that I do agree that there are some few and far between instances where college players have been paid. Probably the majority of which the payment is coming from outside of anyone affiliated with the team and beyond the knowledge of the school.

And under that scenario there really is no "competitive advantage" afforded to the coach.

All in all I estimate the occurrences of players getting paid to be somewhere between 5% and the chance of getting killed by a golden retriever.

[Xville]

13-7 baby!

Yeah here’s the difference baby. I admit when I’m wrong.

[Xville]

If I bet on a football game and the line is set at 50 and i take the under....

If its 48, I win.
If its 15, I still win.
I don't win any more or any less based on how much under the line the game was.

Walked right into that one, huh?

Ooooyeah you got me lol. Did you take into account the word absurdity in your scenario? Walked right into that one

[xubrew]

And I'll just wrap up my thoughts by saying that I do agree that there are some few and far between instances where college players have been paid. Probably the majority of which the payment is coming from outside of anyone affiliated with the team and beyond the knowledge of the school.

And under that scenario there really is no "competitive advantage" afforded to the coach.

All in all I estimate the occurrences of players getting paid to be somewhere between 5% and the chance of getting killed by a golden retriever.

Critical analysis really isn't your thing. I initially said that more than half of D1 college players can and do get paid to play professionally. You then said this...


I'm definitely gonna fact check that.

There are 375 schools, right? 13 players each? 4875 players. Lets assume 25% "move on" from college each year. Thats 1218. And you are saying 50% of them play professional basketball....so 609? Thats 47 full rosters of 13 players each.

How many leagues are there? And thats just the US players. And if they play 3,4,5....10 years? Lets just say an average player plays 4 years. Thats 188 complete rosters made up of active US born players playing internationally.

I'd say probably closer to 15 to 20% of guys play for pay after college.

Not that its relevant to this discussion, but you state it as fact and it's just absurdly overstated.

I then said I would fact check it for you and then linked the NCAA's data of it being 48% of the D1 cohort. I then stated that it was lower than I what I had seen in previous years, but even with the lower percentage my point stell held up. LOTS of college players were prone to be targeted by agents. I wouldn't call what I said an "absurd overstatement." I would call your guess of it being 15-20 percent an absurd understatement.

But, whatever. We had the data. Despite having the actual figure, you then went on to do....well...whatever the hell this is, and the last line pretty much sums it all up...


math Check!

Ok, 70,000 estimated (by who?) players playing pro around the world in 100 leagues. Thats 700 players in each league. 13 players per team. 54 teams per league?

I mean did you just throw some numbers out there?

The NBA is probably one of the bigger leagues in the world and it has 32 teams and less than 450 players.

ESPN ranks the international leagues; Spain has 17 teams, Turkey has 16, Russia has 18, Germany has 18, Italy has 16, France has 18, Adriatic League (Whatever the fuck that is) has 14, Greece has 14, Australia has 8, Lithuania has 10, China has 20. Thats 169 teams so probably 2,200 players. So now we only need to figure out where the other 67,800 players play.

Lets peek at some rosters! 5 random teams from these aforementioned leagues

Gran Canaria from Spain's Liga ACB- 1 American out of 12.
TianJin from China- 4 of 19 (its the Tianjin Pioneers by the way, which makes alot of sense)
Wurzburg Germany- 4 of 13
Fenerbahce Turkey- 5 of 17
Zenit from Russia- 4 of 13

so 18 out of 74. Thats 24%. Im sure the actual number is +/- 3%. Lest go with 25%. That means 550 americans are playing in the 12 best leagues that are not the NBA.

When I sample some ages, I get: 30,29,26,29, 29, 28, 31, 29, 28, 26,28,27

So this suggests that these guys are playing MORE than 4 years. So were pumping 610 new guys into the system annually, and they are sticking around
for maybe 5.5 years on average then that means we have about 3300 guys playing around the world. lets back out 350 NBA guys and also the estimated 550 in the other 12 best leagues in the world.

That leaves us with 87 remaining leagues with 67,450 players of which 2,400 of them must be american. (this also suggests there are now 60 teams per league left).

lets sample a couple!

Chile- 14 teams. Valvida....no Americans. Liceo Pablo Neruda..... 1 american. Las Animas.....no Americans

Denmark- 11 teams. Horsens....4 of 14. Randers... 5 of 13. Copenhagen....0 of 14

South Korea- 10 teams. Wonju DB....5 of 17. Ko Gas....0 of 11


Ok that took forever. Bottom line is that either there are 100 leagues around the world with FAR fewer than 70,000 players (I'd estimate each league had 15 teams with 14 players...so 21,000 international players) OR there are more like 333 leagues with 15 teams and 14 players to get to 70,000 international players.

And back to the original point that the US is producing 610 of these guys each year that stick around for multiple years would mean that weve got around 3300 of 21000 international players in the world. 16%.

I'm gonna go ahead and hold my ground on this one

Now, that's amazing!! That might be the most pathetic and incorrect analysis of all time! But, I guess you’re so bad at analyzing things that you aren't able to analyze for yourself just how bad you are at it. EVERYTHING in this is pretty much completely wrong. What's funny is that you were actually given the answer! 48% had already been established. AND YOU STILL GOT IT COMPLETELY WRONG!! Your precent error is off the charts.

And your estimation of players who got paid while in college is every bit as far away from reality as....well.....whatever the hell this was that you posted above.

So, of course, you're on here taking a victory lap. Good job!!

[xubrew]

You gotta be sick to watch some of these exhibition games. Yet, here I am, watching an exhibition game.

[GoMuskies]

In Pat Kelsey's first Louisville outing, the Cardinals shot 56 threes. Fifty-six.

[xubrew]

In Pat Kelsey's first Louisville outing, the Cardinals shot 56 threes. Fifty-six.

Sixty 3s would have been excessive.

[muskiefan82]

How many did they hit?

[GoMuskies]

How many did they hit?

24

[muskiefan82]

24

That's pretty solid. Almost 43%. That's crazy good

[bigdiggins]

That's pretty solid. Almost 43%. That's crazy good

But is it less than half?

[bjf123]

In Pat Kelsey's first Louisville outing, the Cardinals shot 56 threes. Fifty-six.

What were they from inside the arch? Couldn’t have taken many.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xubrew]

How many did they hit?


24


That's pretty solid. Almost 43%. That's crazy good


But is it less than half?

I ran about 11 pages of data and concluded that it is WAAAAY less than half. It is somewhere between 15% and 20%.

[muskiefan82]

What were they from inside the arch? Couldn’t have taken many.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

16-22 from 2. Pretty solid there. 2-5 on Free Throws which is awful, but if you hit 43% of your 3s and 73% of your 2s you likely won't get many free throws

[xubrew]

16-22 from 2. Pretty solid there. 2-5 on Free Throws which is awful, but if you hit 43% of your 3s and 73% of your 2s you likely won't get many free throws

It is good, but unfortunately most of the teams they play will be a tad bit stronger defensively and will likely be able to contest a higher percentage of shots.

[GoMuskies]

It is good, but unfortunately most of the teams they play will be a tad bit stronger defensively and will likely be able to contest a higher percentage of shots.

You think most ACC teams will be stronger defensively than Young Harris College?!? I don't know about that one!

[xubrew]

You think most ACC teams will be stronger defensively than Young Harris College?!? I don't know about that one!

You raise an excellent point...

[D-West & PO-Z]

the comments in the article very clearly point to the portal and NIL. Bennett even specifically discusses Jay Wright just a couple weeks ago.

I've seen you eviscerate players on this board for "quitting" can't wait for your negative comments on Bennett quitting on his team weeks before the regular season because he decided he didn't like 2 rules in place for going on 4 years now.

[Xville]

I've seen you eviscerate players on this board for "quitting" can't wait for your negative comments on Bennett quitting on his team weeks before the regular season because he decided he didn't like 2 rules in place for going on 4 years now.

I don’t understand why Bennett isn’t getting absolutely crushed in the sports media world for this. Oh he’s a nice guy, who gives a shit. It’s a shit thing to do, and everyone knows it. He should be getting raked over the coals for this.

[xubrew]

I don’t understand why Bennett isn’t getting absolutely crushed in the sports media world for this. Oh he’s a nice guy, who gives a shit. It’s a shit thing to do, and everyone knows it. He should be getting raked over the coals for this.

I think the biggest reason is that the sports media agrees with him. And how much do the current UVA players really care? It’s far more about transactions now and far less about relationships.

Also keep in mind that it wasn’t until the end of May when the federal courts ruled that the NCAA needed to get rid of all their transfer rules. While they had done that when the suit was initially filed against them, there was some hope (albeit not much) that the courts may not rule against the NCAA and the transfer restrictions might come back. So, part of it may have been Bennett just deciding he didn’t like how things have been and didn’t want to stay if they were going to keep being that way. So, he was done. And, I think the reason the sports media aren’t crucifying him for it is because they agree with him.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I think the biggest reason is that the sports media agrees with him. And how much do the current UVA players really care? It’s far more about transactions now and far less about relationships.

Also keep in mind that it wasn’t until the end of May when the federal courts ruled that the NCAA needed to get rid of all their transfer rules. While they had done that when the suit was initially filed against them, there was some hope (albeit not much) that the courts may not rule against the NCAA and the transfer restrictions might come back. So, part of it may have been Bennett just deciding he didn’t like how things have been and didn’t want to stay if they were going to keep being that way. So, he was done. And, I think the reason the sports media aren’t crucifying him for it is because they agree with him.

I'm not sure most sports media agree with him. The sports media I see on twitter I think is more pro player freedom than player restriction. I think they do think he is a nice guy and are giving him a pass.

I could be wrong on the media opinion but just my sense mostly on what I see on twitter.

[xubrew]

I'm not sure most sports media agree with him. The sports media I see on twitter I think is more pro player freedom than player restriction. I think they do think he is a nice guy and are giving him a pass.

I could be wrong on the media opinion but just my sense mostly on what I see on twitter.

I could be wrong too. Truth be told I don’t really pay much attention to sports media.

[Xville]

I think the biggest reason is that the sports media agrees with him. And how much do the current UVA players really care? It’s far more about transactions now and far less about relationships.

Also keep in mind that it wasn’t until the end of May when the federal courts ruled that the NCAA needed to get rid of all their transfer rules. While they had done that when the suit was initially filed against them, there was some hope (albeit not much) that the courts may not rule against the NCAA and the transfer restrictions might come back. So, part of it may have been Bennett just deciding he didn’t like how things have been and didn’t want to stay if they were going to keep being that way. So, he was done. And, I think the reason the sports media aren’t crucifying him for it is because they agree with him.

If they agree with him then they are all hypocrites and they should all just leave, because they are profiting off something they don’t agree with.

I disagree with your premise. I think they aren’t roasting him, because he’s seen as a nice guy and was always friendly with media no matter what, and so they will protect one of their own. If someone with more of a personality of “insert asshole coach here” had done what Bennett did, I’d bet they’d be signing a different tune.

[MHettel]

I've seen you eviscerate players on this board for "quitting" can't wait for your negative comments on Bennett quitting on his team weeks before the regular season because he decided he didn't like 2 rules in place for going on 4 years now.

My guess is that Bennett has a few new players on his roster that he can’t control and are being paid by outside sources that hav made it clear that their “investment” in the program is conditional on Bennett playing the guys they payed for.

No win situation, so walk away.

[murray87]

The Dan Wetzel column at Yahoo draws this conclusion that I fully agree with:

"Bennett was apparently troubled, but he was conducting business as usual. In June he signed a contract extension thru 2030. He brought in seven new players this offseason — two high school recruits and five transfers. All spring, summer and fall, everyone believed Bennett would be the coach.

Yes, players should always consider the school, not the basketball leadership, and no, being “forced” to attend at least one year at Virginia isn’t some prison sentence. It is still hypocritical to decry a system where players are allowed to make decisions on a whim while making a decision on a whim.

Quitting is quitting. And good or bad, for reasons reasonable or not, that’s what this was.

Couldn’t Bennett have done this in April or even late March at the conclusion of Virginia's season? There is no perfect time for a coach to retire — Bennett rightly lamented the NCAA calendar, which is disorganized — but almost anytime is better than now."

[Xville]

My guess is that Bennett has a few new players on his roster that he can’t control and are being paid by outside sources that hav made it clear that their “investment” in the program is conditional on Bennett playing the guys they payed for.

No win situation, so walk away.

If Virginia sets their nil up that way, that’s really stupid. Considering it’s Virginia I don’t see it as plausible and this is just another narrative you are trying to spin because of your consistent whining about nil.

Bennett also recruited those guys, so even if the above were true, that’s on him for taking those kinds of human beings. He had no problem signing that extension in June while he would have known what was going on.

[Xville]

The Dan Wetzel column at Yahoo draws this conclusion that I fully agree with:

"Bennett was apparently troubled, but he was conducting business as usual. In June he signed a contract extension thru 2030. He brought in seven new players this offseason — two high school recruits and five transfers. All spring, summer and fall, everyone believed Bennett would be the coach.

Yes, players should always consider the school, not the basketball leadership, and no, being “forced” to attend at least one year at Virginia isn’t some prison sentence. It is still hypocritical to decry a system where players are allowed to make decisions on a whim while making a decision on a whim.

Quitting is quitting. And good or bad, for reasons reasonable or not, that’s what this was.

Couldn’t Bennett have done this in April or even late March at the conclusion of Virginia's season? There is no perfect time for a coach to retire — Bennett rightly lamented the NCAA calendar, which is disorganized — but almost anytime is better than now."

Thanks for the share. Completely agree.

[D-West & PO-Z]

My guess is that Bennett has a few new players on his roster that he can’t control and are being paid by outside sources that hav made it clear that their “investment” in the program is conditional on Bennett playing the guys they payed for.

No win situation, so walk away.

HA, hilarious.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The Dan Wetzel column at Yahoo draws this conclusion that I fully agree with:

"Bennett was apparently troubled, but he was conducting business as usual. In June he signed a contract extension thru 2030. He brought in seven new players this offseason — two high school recruits and five transfers. All spring, summer and fall, everyone believed Bennett would be the coach.

Yes, players should always consider the school, not the basketball leadership, and no, being “forced” to attend at least one year at Virginia isn’t some prison sentence. It is still hypocritical to decry a system where players are allowed to make decisions on a whim while making a decision on a whim.

Quitting is quitting. And good or bad, for reasons reasonable or not, that’s what this was.

Couldn’t Bennett have done this in April or even late March at the conclusion of Virginia's season? There is no perfect time for a coach to retire — Bennett rightly lamented the NCAA calendar, which is disorganized — but almost anytime is better than now."

Spot on.

[GoMuskies]

I just assume all guys who have job security who quit at this point in the season are manipulating their institututions into hiring their top assistant to replace them. It's a shitty thing to do even though guys like Bennett probably feel like they're just being so great taking care of their guy.

UVA should slap the interim tag on the guy and never consider him for the permanent job.

[xubrew]

I just assume all guys who have job security who quit at this point in the season are manipulating their institututions into hiring their top assistant to replace them. It's a shitty thing to do even though guys like Bennett probably feel like they're just being so great taking care of their guy.

UVA should slap the interim tag on the guy and never consider him for the permanent job.

Generally I think you're right. In this specific case I think it was just kind of assumed by everyone that Ron Sanchez was going to be Virginia's next coach. He didn't have the title "Head Coach In Waiting" like we've seen on a few occasions, but pretty much everyone expected him to be next. When Sanchez was hired after doing very well as a head coach at Charlotte, I think everyone was just sort of like "Oh. I guess he's next." There was no need to manipulate anything. I think he just kind of woke up and decided he didn't want to go to work anymore. He'd had it.

And I think Ron Sanchez has already proven that he is a very good head coach. Charlotte went from winning as few as 3 games to as many as 20+ games. If UVA never gives him the chance all they'd be doing is making another school happy.

[xubrew]

Tonight's Kentucky v Kentucky Wesleyan exhibition game is probably far more intriguing than the Kentucky v Louisville regular season game has been the last several years.

[GoMuskies]

Tonight's Kentucky v Kentucky Wesleyan exhibition game is probably far more intriguing than the Kentucky v Louisville regular season game has been the last several years.

KWC coach Drew Cooper was my grade school teammate, so I'm certainly interested! He got to come home and beat Louisville last year (not that it was a huge accomplishment to beat Louisville!).

[xubrew]

KWC coach Drew Cooper was my grade school teammate, so I'm certainly interested! He got to come home and beat Louisville last year (not that it was a huge accomplishment to beat Louisville!).

NICE!! I don't think they'll win, but I'm pulling for them. It was kinda fun (and funny) seeing them beat Louisville last year. I believe Kenny Payne was 1-3 in exhibition games against D2 teams.

[GoMuskies]

One could make a pretty compelling case that Kenny Payne wasn't very good at his job.

[Xavgrad08]

Was not sure where to put this. South Florida HC Amir Rahim has passed away from an illness. He was in his early 40’s. X fans remember him from when he coached Kennesaw State in the tournament. Very sad.

[xubrew]

Was not sure where to put this. South Florida HC Amir Rahim has passed away from an illness. He was in his early 40’s. X fans remember him from when he coached Kennesaw State in the tournament. Very sad.

I cannot believe it. He was a rock star as a coach, he was an awesome human being, and it’s just unbelievably sad. He apparently told very few people he was even sick. He was a rising star that had already risen pretty high. I’m just completely stunned.

[X-band '01]

He turned a 1-win Kennesaw State team into an NCAA Tournament team in 3 years; he was also getting ready to build South Florida into an NCAA Tournament program. Very sad story here.

[xubrew]

I hate that the season now starts on a Monday, and will soon start even earlier. The Second Friday in November seemed like a good day to start. I know it hadn't been set on that date for THAT long, but once they did set it, it just kind of felt right. The CBB season will now begin with over 200 games, most of which are complete crap, and at the same time as MNF. That just seems less than ideal, doesn't it??

[GoMuskies]

It will be an excellent distraction from election madness, so I think it's a GREAT thing college basketball starts early this particular year.

[X-band '01]

This might be my favorite preview of the upcoming season:

2024-25 Pac-12 Preview (https://hoopshd.com/2024/10/24/pac-12-media-day-recap-and-response-6/)

[Xville]

The Mack attack begins his new campaign today at noon. Jumped on the -2.5 line

[xubrew]

The Mack attack begins his new campaign today at noon. Jumped on the -2.5 line

That's actually one of the few games that looks like it will be halfway decent today.

There are 199 games being played today, which is by far the most of any day of the season. A friend of mine somehow figured that at 8:30pm tonight, there will be over 140 games going on at the same time.

And most of that will be complete and total crap.

[GoMuskies]

Wichita State at Western Kentucky should be one of the good matchups. I expect both of those teams to be pretty decent, but I'd expect WKU to prevail at home.

[GoMuskies]

Looking at the list, at least we've got Memphis/Mizzou and Ohio State/Texas.

[xubrew]

Looking at the list, at least we've got Memphis/Mizzou and Ohio State/Texas.

Baylor v Gonzaga tips at 1130. Memphis v Mizzou wouldn't be a game anyone would care about if it weren't being played on a day where there are this many bad games and you have to reach really far just to find a decent one.

But, then again, I guess techincailly we've got a 355 way tie for first place right now, so they're all hugely important!!

[Xville]

Baylor v Gonzaga tips at 1130. Memphis v Mizzou wouldn't be a game anyone would care about if it weren't being played on a day where there are this many bad games and you have to reach really far just to find a decent one.

But, then again, I guess techincailly we've got a 355 way tie for first place right now, so they're all hugely important!!

Is Memphis any good this year? I saw they were favorites tonight. Mizzou should be much improved from last year, probably not an ncaa team but on the fringe

[xubrew]

Is Memphis any good this year? I saw they were favorites tonight. Mizzou should be much improved from last year, probably not an ncaa team but on the fringe

Memphis is what they always are. They are very talented and many think they will be good because of that. The thing is they almost never play up to the sum of their parts, and until they actually do that I won't be sold on them.

[Xuperman]

Mack's Charleston Cougars game is live on the "Field of 68" YouTube channel.

[xubrew]

Mack's Charleston Cougars game is live on the "Field of 68" YouTube channel.

The Field of 68 is a fun little group. I don't watch or read a lot of their stuff, but I like the stuff that I do read and watch. It's pretty cool that they were able to put this event together. I think it's four games today.

[Xuperman]

Yeah, I am impressed. Stream is very good and the announcers are professional. Lazar started for Mack.

[MHettel]

Yeah, I am impressed. Stream is very good and the announcers are professional. Lazar started for Mack.

Lazar: 20 minutes, 6 pts on 2 of 3 & 2 of 4 from the line. No 3 attempts. 3 rebs, 1 blk, 1 TO, 4 fouls.

[Xville]

Lazar: 20 minutes, 6 pts on 2 of 3 & 2 of 4 from the line. No 3 attempts. 3 rebs, 1 blk, 1 TO, 4 fouls.

I know you’re so badly trying to slip your narrative in here but that’s not bad for a guy who just got back on the court less than a month ago. He had zero development time which is something everyone knows he needs, including the field of 68 guys who mentioned it a few times

[MHettel]

I know you’re so badly trying to slip your narrative in here but that’s not bad for a guy who just got back on the court less than a month ago. He had zero development time which is something everyone knows he needs, including the field of 68 guys who mentioned it a few times

Im unaware of what he is returning from or for how long he was out. Did someone tell Mack that he just got back? I mean, he did start him.

[Xville]

Im unaware of what he is returning from or for how long he was out. Did someone tell Mack that he just got back? I mean, he did start him.

Maybe had you watched the game instead of just perusing a box score to further a silly narrative, you’d know.

[Xville]

Avila with what looked like a bad ankle injury. Sucks for slu and college bb

[MHettel]

Maybe had you watched the game instead of just perusing a box score to further a silly narrative, you’d know.

great comeback. Almost rivals all your other skills.

[Xville]

Good to see these big East teams avoid the upsets, but need a big step up from almost everyone from game 1 to 2

[GoMuskies]

I guess Gonzaga is good.

[Xville]

I guess Gonzaga is good.

Heard that dumbass Matt jones had picked Baylor so I jumped on the zags. Easy win

[GoMuskies]

Did Xavier ever recruit Jacob Meyer from Covington? Just noticed he scored 23 for DePaul last night. He's a sophomore transfer from Coastal Carolina, and he averaged 15.7/5.1/2.6 for Coastal as a freshman. 6'2" guard who shot 40% from three for Coasta and was 4-9 from 3 last night for DePaul.

Apparently he scored 3,280 points at Covington Holy Cross.

[xubrew]

Vermont had a really big win on Monday night at UAB. That probably wasn't on too many people's radars, but UAB isn't likely to lose much at home. It actually wouldn't shock me too much if that ended up being their only home loss. If Vermont is pushing 30 wins by the end of the season and one of their wins was at UAB who was otherwise unbeaten at home, the committee will look at that as being a VERY good win!

Vermont is at Auburn tonight. That would be an even much better win, but it's also not at all likely to happen.

[X-band '01]

This is going to be a banner season for the American. And not in a good way.

[GoMuskies]

That's good news. I think Wichita State is going to be pretty decent this year, and it would be nice for them to have a glide path to an at-large bid.

[XUGRAD80]

Villanova loses to Columbia. Columbia was picked to finish 5th in the Ivy. Ouch.

[Xville]

Villanova loses to Columbia. Columbia was picked to finish 5th in the Ivy. Ouch.

Not good for the league at all. Neptune and nova are bad.

[xubrew]

A couple of outstanding games on the schedule today!!

The University of Health Sciences and Pharmacy is playing Lindenwood!! And The Mississippi University for Women is facing off against Mississippi Valley State!!

THIS IS SUCH A GREAT COUNTRY!!!!

[X-band '01]

A couple of outstanding games on the schedule today!!

The University of Health Sciences and Pharmacy is playing Lindenwood!! And The Mississippi University for Women is facing off against Mississippi Valley State!!

THIS IS SUCH A GREAT COUNTRY!!!!

I guess MUW's former name (Industrial Institute and College for the Education of White Girls) is no longer politically correct?

[X-band '01]

Meanwhile, Texas A&M-Commerce has also branded itself as East Texas A&M now. Not that 99% of the country will give an f.

[xubrew]

Meanwhile, Texas A&M-Commerce has also branded itself as East Texas A&M now. Not that 99% of the country will give an f.

What the hell am I supposed to do with all my former TAMU Commerce gear!!????

[XUGRAD80]

That basketball power, Austin Peay, just beat Butler 68-66 on Butler’s home barn floor.

[Xuperman]

Cronin loses to New Mexico on his home floor. Cronin may start getting mentioned in the coaching carousel thread. Was Pitino auditioning for the job?

[GoMuskies]

Vermont had a really big win on Monday night at UAB. That probably wasn't on too many people's radars, but UAB isn't likely to lose much at home. It actually wouldn't shock me too much if that ended up being their only home loss. If Vermont is pushing 30 wins by the end of the season and one of their wins was at UAB who was otherwise unbeaten at home, the committee will look at that as being a VERY good win!

Vermont is at Auburn tonight. That would be an even much better win, but it's also not at all likely to happen.

Not really feeling Vermont. LOL

[xubrew]

Cronin loses to New Mexico on his home floor. Cronin may start getting mentioned in the coaching carousel thread. Was Pitino auditioning for the job?

The game was in Nevada, and New Mexico isn’t bad, but it’s still a game UCLA should have won.

[xubrew]

Not really feeling Vermont. LOL

By America East standards they are still far and away the best team. Their last game was less than stellar, but I still think they’ll win more than 25 this year.

[xubrew]

On their flight to Houston, Auburn’s plane had to turn around and land because a fight broke out amongst the players and the pilot felt it was a safety hazard. That’s a first!!

[Three Point Pete]

Pilot should have told them to take the fight outside!

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[X-band '01]

That's a great 24 hours for the SEC - we find out that the Florida coach is Florida Man sending out dick pics and Auburn's having a Mile High Fight Club.

S-E-C
S-E-C
S-E-C

[xubrew]

That's a great 24 hours for the SEC - we find out that the Florida coach is Florida Man sending out dick pics and Auburn's having a Mile High Fight Club.

S-E-C
S-E-C
S-E-C

It just matters more!!

[xubrew]

Not really feeling Vermont. LOL

Okay, NOW I’m starting to not feel Vermont.

[GoMuskies]

On their flight to Houston, Auburn’s plane had to turn around and land because a fight broke out amongst the players and the pilot felt it was a safety hazard. That’s a first!!

The #3 in the corner you're advised to watch in this video as Auburn humiliates Vermont was one of the fighters. Makes sense after seeing this.

https://x.com/HaterReport_/status/1855285288525824119

[xubrew]

The #3 in the corner you're advised to watch in this video as Auburn humiliates Vermont was one of the fighters. Makes sense after seeing this.

https://x.com/HaterReport_/status/1855285288525824119

WOW!! That’s hilarious!!

[bjf123]

That’s great! Looks like he no longer cares.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MHettel]

The #3 in the corner you're advised to watch in this video as Auburn humiliates Vermont was one of the fighters. Makes sense after seeing this.

https://x.com/HaterReport_/status/1855285288525824119

Dude, that’s my local YMCA. Dudes just come down and jack up 3s on every possession. Certain guys just literally never get the ball

[xubrew]

North Florida has been a fun story this year. They've won at South Carolina and at Georgia Tech. I know it's unlikely that eitehr of those teams are even NIT teams, but for a team that was picked to finish 7th in the ASun to go on the road and beat both of them is still pretty cool. I like Matt Driscoll. I'm actually a little surprised that you never hear his name mentioned when bigger jobs come open. I don't necessarily mean P4 jobs, but certainly AAC and A10 level jobs.

[xubrew]

Villanova is hot garbage.

[X-band '01]

I guess the next Chosen One isn't quite ready to lead Duke to a win against a reloading Kentucky team.

[Xville]

I guess the next Chosen One isn't quite ready to lead Duke to a win against a reloading Kentucky team.

Good player, don’t understand all the hype. He’s not any better than filipkowski and he’s no banchero

[MHettel]

Good player, don’t understand all the hype. He’s not any better than filipkowski and he’s no banchero

You really should stop. This will haunt you.

[Xville]

You really should stop. This will haunt you.

Not really. When Flagg averages 29, 9 and 6 in the league, let me know.

Flagg is jag. Good player no doubt, not a generational player

And the last person i'm taking advice from is someone that thinks kids weren't getting paid before NIL

[MHettel]

Not really. When Flagg averages 29, 9 and 6 in the league, let me know.

Flagg is jag. Good player no doubt, not a generational player

And the last person i'm taking advice from is someone that thinks kids weren't getting paid before NIL

Fetch

[xubrew]

Seemingly every year there is a player that the media gushes over. They talk of him as if they're so great that on the 7th day after creating the cosmos he wouldn't have needed a day to rest. And they say all this about him before he's ever actually played in a college game.

Having said that, Cooper Flag is 17. He'll probably be starting for an NBA team at the age of 18. By the time he's...say...23, he'll probably be MUCH better than he is at the age of 17. For someone that was playing against what was by far the best team he'd ever played against in his life last night, and that's still younger than most people who will be going to the prom this spring...he didn't do bad!!! Had it not been for the press framing him in a way that suggested he wouldn't have needed to rest on the 7th day, and had everyone been seeing him for the first time without any previous context at all, EVERYONE's take would be "OMG!! WOW!! THAT KID IS ONLY 17!! HE'S AMAZING!!"

[GoMuskies]

For someone that was playing against what was by far the best team he'd ever played against in his life last night,

I mean, you know, other than the US Olympic team.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

It went down to the wire. Flag had a good game, but remember yes he is just 17 and not 17 years old and from Mali through Canada crap. He is a legit 17 year old playing against 18 to 24 year olds.

Lebron was 21/5/6 his rookie year in the NBA but was 19.

[MHettel]

Flagg scored 26 of Dukes 72 points, and his total was equal to the next TWO highest scorers on the team combined. The universal consensus among anybody and everybody that follows basketball is that the kid is a generational talent and an absolute cant miss superstar.

Except, of course Xville. Who also insisted XU was going to go 13-7 last year in Big East play WHILE HAVING THE BENEFIT OF WATCHING the team suck and struggle through the 1st half of the conference schedule.

[Xville]

Flagg scored 26 of Dukes 72 points, and his total was equal to the next TWO highest scorers on the team combined. The universal consensus among anybody and everybody that follows basketball is that the kid is a generational talent and an absolute cant miss superstar.

Except, of course Xville. Who also insisted XU was going to go 13-7 last year in Big East play WHILE HAVING THE BENEFIT OF WATCHING the team suck and struggle through the 1st half of the conference schedule.

Do you have any idea what that actually means? You're comparing the kid to Lebron and Jordan. That's generational talent. Give me a break.

You’re hearing people say, ‘Oh, he’s a generational talent.’ He’s not a generational talent. He’s hella good. He’s hella talented. There’s no doubt about that. But when I say, he’s not a Victor Wembanyama, he doesn’t belong in that LeBron. He doesn’t belong in those guys’ category, saying that he’s a generational talent, but he’s a hell of a player,” Childress stated.

Anybody and everybody have said that kids in college have been getting paid for decades..except of course Hett who doesn't know the difference between Hope and a prediction.

[drudy23]

He also had 2 turnovers in the final minute, and let UK get a rebound over him with 5 seconds left to salt away the win.

He's likely to be the first pick and should have a good NBA career, probably even an All Star at some point, but he's not in Lebron's tier comparing both at this point in their lives.

[xubrew]

Okay, I must be the only person that finds myself unable to forecast someone's entire career based on the first three college games they've played. Michael Jordan scored 12 points against Charlotte in his first college game. Flagg might be the greatest player who ever played, or he may not even make it through two seasons as an NBA player. I don't know. I'm always a little perplexed at how literally EVERYONE (media, fans, everyone) jumps on a kid who up until a week ago they'd probably never even actually seen play before. Everyone does this all the time. It's ridiculous to say right now that he's a generational player. It's equally ridiculous to say right now that there's no way he'll become one.

But...carry on!!!

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Okay, I must be the only person that finds myself unable to forecast someone's entire career based on the first three college games they've played. Michael Jordan scored 12 points against Charlotte in his first college game. Flagg might be the greatest player who ever played, or he may not even make it through two seasons as an NBA player. I don't know. I'm always a little perplexed at how literally EVERYONE (media, fans, everyone) jumps on a kid who up until a week ago they'd probably never even actually seen play before. Everyone does this all the time. It's ridiculous to say right now that he's a generational player. It's equally ridiculous to say right now that there's no way he'll become one.

But...carry on!!!

This, kid is 17 and playing at Duke. Lebron was 17 playing at St. Mary/St. Vincent. You can't compare them until Flagg enters the NBA and plays a couple years. He should enter the NBA the same age year Lebron did. I don't think anyone can make claims either way now, but the kid is good now for sure.

[drudy23]

Cmon man, nobody is saying he will be a bust.

But it's pretty simple to know he's not going to be Jordan or Lebron. They both are literally in the top 3 OF ALL TIME in the sport. The likelihood of him being a bust are exponentially greater than him being Bron or Jordanesque - that's how elite those two are.

[Xville]

Cmon man, nobody is saying he will be a bust.

But it's pretty simple to know he's not going to be Jordan or Lebron. They both are literally in the top 3 OF ALL TIME in the sport. The likelihood of him being a bust are exponentially greater than him being Bron or Jordanesque - that's how elite those two are.

Yep! People throw around “generational talent” like they don’t know what that actually means. You are comparing someone to lebron and Jordan. That’s what you’re doing, and why all this hype is driving me freaking nuts.

They said the same thing about Anthony Davis while at uk. Hell of a player when he’s actually healthy… he’s not a generational player

[GoMuskies]

Davis has a generational unibrow.

[X-band '01]

Are they as big and spectacular as Adam Silver's ears?

[noteggs]

Watched UConn tonight. Kept thinking McNeeley should have played for Gonzaga. Why? Because the way he wears that damn headband. You know the Zag way.

[xubrew]

The Tennessee Tech vs VMI game at the Greenbriar Tip-Off Tournament has been delayed. They are playing in a ballroom and a chandelier fell onto the court!!

GOD I LOVE THESE EXEMPT TOURNAMENTS!!!!

[Xville]

Remember the fighting Macks against Tandy State tonight at 7. Should be an extremely high scoring game.

[X-band '01]

The Tennessee Tech vs VMI game at the Greenbriar Tip-Off Tournament has been delayed. They are playing in a ballroom and a chandelier fell onto the court!!

GOD I LOVE THESE EXEMPT TOURNAMENTS!!!!

I was thinking $30 to watch those games on PassThaBallLive.com was excessive. I was gravely mistaken.

[drudy23]

Neither TCU or Michigan look all that great to be honest.

TCU does have Posey’s son, so they got that going for them.

[GoMuskies]

Which is nice

[muskiefan82]

The Kyky-Lazar game is epic. Brzovic is a beast

[Xavgrad08]

Charleston wins on a buzzer beater in double overtime. Unbelievable offensive game. Both teams are bad defensively, but fun to watch on offense. Brzovic for Charleston is a stud.

[Xville]

What an incredible game. Brzovic is an absolute beast

[xubrew]

Columbia, who plays in the Ivy League and has never not been terrible, is 3-0 with a win at Villanova. They'll almost assuredly be 4-0 after today and there is a very good chance they'll be 11-0 when they go in to their game against Rutgers. Now it's not a very impressive 11-0 in and of itself, but considering that we are talking about Columbia, that's pretty notable!!

[MHettel]

Columbia, who plays in the Ivy League and has never not been terrible, is 3-0 with a win at Villanova. They'll almost assuredly be 4-0 after today and there is a very good chance they'll be 11-0 when they go in to their game against Rutgers. Now it's not a very impressive 11-0 in and of itself, but considering that we are talking about Columbia, that's pretty notable!!

I mean you’re predicting an 8 game winning streak and then declaring that it’s Notable!

It will be notable IF they do it. Let’s wait….

[bjf123]

Charleston wins on a buzzer beater in double overtime. Unbelievable offensive game. Both teams are bad defensively, but fun to watch on offense. Brzovic for Charleston is a stud.

Anyone have 220 as the over/under? Defense was clearly optional. Glad to see KyKy and Lazar in starting roles at their new schools.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xubrew]

I mean you’re predicting an 8 game winning streak and then declaring that it’s Notable!

It will be notable IF they do it. Let’s wait….

A 4-0 start with a string of games that appear to be winnable is notable for Columbia.

[Xville]

Xavier still not ranked in the AP. What a load of bullshit

[MHettel]

Xavier still not ranked in the AP. What a load of bullshit

Actually kind of hard to argue the new poll. Very few teams lost.

Illinois got in, but were previously #26 vs our #29. Wisconsin jumped like 20 spots after beating #9 Arizona by 15.

Ole Miss won 2 games and still managed to fall out of the Top 25. thats very uncommon. THEY should bitch before we do....

Plenty of time to go.

[Xville]

Actually kind of hard to argue the new poll. Very few teams lost.

Illinois got in, but were previously #26 vs our #29. Wisconsin jumped like 20 spots after beating #9 Arizona by 15.

Ole Miss won 2 games and still managed to fall out of the Top 25. thats very uncommon. THEY should bitch before we do....

Plenty of time to go.

It's not a big thing because as you said plenty of time to go, but it makes me salty how some teams are ranked just because they were ranked in preseason or because of other factors outside of their play.

Take Rutgers for instance. Ranked in preseason, have beaten no one, and still ranked ahead of X. Illinois as you pointed out, went up because they won their buy games. X has a much better win than anything they have done. Arkansas is ranked because of who their coach is.

It's just lazy. I doubt most of them watch many games, and they have little clue who Rutgers or Illinois even beat...they just know they haven't lost yet. In the same vein, they probably just noticed that X hasn't lost, but have no clue they beat a quality opponent pretty soundly.

Ok, off my soapbox now

[MHettel]

It's not a big thing because as you said plenty of time to go, but it makes me salty how some teams are ranked just because they were ranked in preseason or because of other factors outside of their play.

Take Rutgers for instance. Ranked in preseason, have beaten no one, and still ranked ahead of X. Illinois as you pointed out, went up because they won their buy games. X has a much better win than anything they have done. Arkansas is ranked because of who their coach is.

It's just lazy. I doubt most of them watch many games, and they have little clue who Rutgers or Illinois even beat...they just know they haven't lost yet. In the same vein, they probably just noticed that X hasn't lost, but have no clue they beat a quality opponent pretty soundly.

Ok, off my soapbox now

what you are describing is just the reality at this point of the season. They start with a guess of how good they think the teams will be. And then adjust the rankings, which started with a guess, based on the ACTUAL results.

I'm good with where we are. I see an effective offense and I'm pleasantly surprised (shocked?) that the defense has been as good as it's been. At this point, its just about results. If this team is 2/3rds as good as I think it could be, we should stick around the top 25 all year. If we hit our top end potential, then i see us in the 10-15 range by midseason.

[xubrew]

It's not a big thing because as you said plenty of time to go, but it makes me salty how some teams are ranked just because they were ranked in preseason or because of other factors outside of their play.

Take Rutgers for instance. Ranked in preseason, have beaten no one, and still ranked ahead of X. Illinois as you pointed out, went up because they won their buy games. X has a much better win than anything they have done. Arkansas is ranked because of who their coach is.

It's just lazy. I doubt most of them watch many games, and they have little clue who Rutgers or Illinois even beat...they just know they haven't lost yet. In the same vein, they probably just noticed that X hasn't lost, but have no clue they beat a quality opponent pretty soundly.

Ok, off my soapbox now

They don't.

The writers see the teams that they cover, and the coaches see the teams that they play against. I know Joe Lunardi is a running joke, but he's actually a better indicator of knowing the full scope of all the teams and what they've actually done than most of the coaches and AP voters. Most head coaches don't even fill out their own ballots. And most writers are influenced almost entirely of when the most recent loss was, and where a team was most recently ranked. The polls have never not worked that way.

[MHettel]

They don't.

The writers see the teams that they cover, and the coaches see the teams that they play against. I know Joe Lunardi is a running joke, but he's actually a better indicator of knowing the full scope of all the teams and what they've actually done than most of the coaches and AP voters. Most head coaches don't even fill out their own ballots. And most writers are influenced almost entirely of when the most recent loss was, and where a team was most recently ranked. The polls have never not worked that way.

In fairness...

Lets assume every team plays 2x a week. 375 teams. 375 total games since each game has 2 teams playing. Thats about 750 hours of games. There are only 168 hours in a week.

Even if the games were staggered around the clock and you did nothing but stay awake and watch games, youd see about 22% of the action.

But they arent staggered around the clock. generally during the week, you could reasonably watch 4 games a day, max (assume the earliest start is 6pm Eastern and last start is 8Pm Pacific). Thats 8 hours a day, or 40 hours a week.

On the weekends, you can probably get 12 hours in per day. So 24.

So if you were fully committed to watching the maximum amount of basketball available, you'd get about 64 hours. Thats 8.5%.

So what that they dont watch. Honestly. Best case scenario is that they are missing 91.5% of the games anyway.

[Xville]

In fairness...

Lets assume every team plays 2x a week. 375 teams. 375 total games since each game has 2 teams playing. Thats about 750 hours of games. There are only 168 hours in a week.

Even if the games were staggered around the clock and you did nothing but stay awake and watch games, youd see about 22% of the action.

But they arent staggered around the clock. generally during the week, you could reasonably watch 4 games a day, max (assume the earliest start is 6pm Eastern and last start is 8Pm Pacific). Thats 8 hours a day, or 40 hours a week.

On the weekends, you can probably get 12 hours in per day. So 24.

So if you were fully committed to watching the maximum amount of basketball available, you'd get about 64 hours. Thats 8.5%.

So what that they dont watch. Honestly. Best case scenario is that they are missing 91.5% of the games anyway.

I see your point, but in reality, only a third of those 375 teams are relevant when it comes to polling and that's being kind. I don't think you need to watch every game, that's not realistic, but i do think if you have a vote, you should use the tools that are at your disposal to make a proper vote. You should have a pretty good pulse on all the power leagues and A-10/American---the Zags etc.

In the end, polls don't matter too much, but they do help for branding, exposure etc. and for a smaller school like Xavier it makes more of an impact than say an Illinois or Arkansas

[xubrew]

In fairness...

Lets assume every team plays 2x a week. 375 teams. 375 total games since each game has 2 teams playing. Thats about 750 hours of games. There are only 168 hours in a week.

Even if the games were staggered around the clock and you did nothing but stay awake and watch games, youd see about 22% of the action.

But they arent staggered around the clock. generally during the week, you could reasonably watch 4 games a day, max (assume the earliest start is 6pm Eastern and last start is 8Pm Pacific). Thats 8 hours a day, or 40 hours a week.

On the weekends, you can probably get 12 hours in per day. So 24.

So if you were fully committed to watching the maximum amount of basketball available, you'd get about 64 hours. Thats 8.5%.

So what that they dont watch. Honestly. Best case scenario is that they are missing 91.5% of the games anyway.

Yes.

And to also be fair, a coach has neither the time or energy to worry about anyone that they're not actually playing, and a writer isn't going to waste a whole lot of time watching teams that they don't cover. Why would they??

The polls are what they are. They're interesting, but IMHO that's really all they're good for. The only reason they're so valued is because people put a lot of stock into them. They're not really the best indicator of how good anyone actually is. Especially not now.

[XU 23]

UC at 17 but still hasn’t played anyone. You’d think at some point Wes would schedule a tough game or two before the shootout to get his team ready. At Villanova doesn’t count this year, lol.

[xubrew]

UC at 17 but still hasn’t played anyone. You’d think at some point Wes would schedule a tough game or two before the shootout to get his team ready. At Villanova doesn’t count this year, lol.

Their OOC schedule is a joke, and it actually puts more pressure on them to perform in conference, which won't be easy to do.

[XU 23]

Mick used to do this when they were in the AAC. I guess ole’ Wess didn’t learn.

[MHettel]

Yes.

And to also be fair, a coach has neither the time or energy to worry about anyone that they're not actually playing, and a writer isn't going to waste a whole lot of time watching teams that they don't cover. Why would they??

The polls are what they are. They're interesting, but IMHO that's really all they're good for. The only reason they're so valued is because people put a lot of stock into them. They're not really the best indicator of how good anyone actually is. Especially not now.

But, they are pretty accurate, right? You dont like who votes and why they vote the way the did. But its almost ALWAYS very accurate.

Who is to say what accuracy even means, there is not final determination of that. But the current top 25 is 79-8 overall. And alot of these teams will go coast to coast this year in the top 10. And its almost a certainty that someone in the top 25 will win the national championship this year, and it will be even more likely that its a top 10 team right now.

They get it right. thats what matters. Not only do they get it right, they improve as the season goes on.

you're getting all bent out shape about something that doesn't matter.

[xubrew]

But, they are pretty accurate, right? You dont like who votes and why they vote the way the did. But its almost ALWAYS very accurate.

Who is to say what accuracy even means, there is not final determination of that. But the current top 25 is 79-8 overall. And alot of these teams will go coast to coast this year in the top 10. And its almost a certainty that someone in the top 25 will win the national championship this year, and it will be even more likely that its a top 10 team right now.

They get it right. thats what matters. Not only do they get it right, they improve as the season goes on.

you're getting all bent out shape about something that doesn't matter.

What the hell are you talking about?? I agree that it doesn't matter, and I'm not bent out of shape at all. Can you find even one example in the last...I don't know...15 years or so where I ever complained about the polls?? I really don't care about them. Like I said, i find them interesting to look at, but other than that I don't put any stock into them.

As far as how accurate they are, I'd say as of right now...not very. If history proves to be any indicator of accuracy, about 8 or 9 teams in the current poll won't even make the NCAA Tournament, about half of them won't be ranked in the final regular season 25, and about 6 or 7 teams that didn't receive a single vote this week will be ranked at the end of the season.

Most voters don't take it seriously and in the coaches' poll many of the coaches aren't actually the ones voting. I'm not bent out of shape over that. I'm just stating that.

[GoMuskies]

The second poll probably shouldn't come out until sometime in December, honestly, because there's just not enough data to make them meaningful. You get the preseason poll, which is nice because it's interesting and tells everyone that college basketball season is starting. And then you have about 10 games total in the whole country prior to Thanksgiving that are truly meaningful and tell you anything, and then you have about 50 "exempt" events over Thanksgiving with teams actually playing good opponents mostly on neutral floors.

So on December 1st someone could actually fill out a meaningful, somewhat educated AP top 25 ballot. Until then....not really.

[xubrew]

The second poll probably shouldn't come out until sometime in December, honestly, because there's just not enough data to make them meaningful. You get the preseason poll, which is nice because it's interesting and tells everyone that college basketball season is starting. And then you have about 10 games total in the whole country prior to Thanksgiving that are truly meaningful and tell you anything, and then you have about 50 "exempt" events over Thanksgiving with teams actually playing good opponents mostly on neutral floors.

So on December 1st someone could actually fill out a meaningful, somewhat educated AP top 25 ballot. Until then....not really.

I don't disagree, but every week everybody looks at the new poll. Even if it's just so they can complain about how it doesn't matter, they're still looking at it. So, it's doing its job.

Q - Why are there polls so early in the season?
A - Because you're looking at them

Q - Why do they do bracketology in November?
A - Same answer as above

[MHettel]

What the hell are you talking about?? I agree that it doesn't matter, and I'm not bent out of shape at all. Can you find even one example in the last...I don't know...15 years or so where I ever complained about the polls?? I really don't care about them. Like I said, i find them interesting to look at, but other than that I don't put any stock into them.

As far as how accurate they are, I'd say as of right now...not very. If history proves to be any indicator of accuracy, about 8 or 9 teams in the current poll won't even make the NCAA Tournament, about half of them won't be ranked in the final regular season 25, and about 6 or 7 teams that didn't receive a single vote this week will be ranked at the end of the season.

Most voters don't take it seriously and in the coaches' poll many of the coaches aren't actually the ones voting. I'm not bent out of shape over that. I'm just stating that.

Maybe I've confused you with someone else.

But every time the topic of the polls come up, there is always someone one here chiming in about the fact that voters don't watch the games and the coaches delegate their votes to a low level staffer. I must have read that here a dozen times over the years.

Somebody cares enough to bring it up at every single mention of the polls.

[xubrew]

Maybe I've confused you with someone else.

But every time the topic of the polls come up, there is always someone one here chiming in about the fact that voters don't watch the games and the coaches delegate their votes to a low level staffer. I must have read that here a dozen times over the years.

Somebody cares enough to bring it up at every single mention of the polls.

Well, I’m sure I’ve pointed that out before, but that hardly means I’m bent out of shape about it. If anything I’d be more bent out of shape if I thought coaches were spending more time worrying about this than what they should.

[Xville]

I think it’s silly to say they don’t matter. Of course they matter. They matter for branding, the more you are in the poll year over year, the more benefit of the doubt you get in the polls. The more you are ranked, the more recruits pay attention, the more recruits pay attention, the better chance you have of getting them interested in your school. The more you are ranked, the more you get on fox, instead of fs1.. you’ll also get name brand blue bloods willing to schedule you in regular season. That brings more exposure.

Now of course they don’t matter as much because it’s a whole new world out there with nil portal etc. However, of course they matter. People watch sports, in general more people are going to watch ranked teams than non ranked teams. More eyeballs, more people I think you get the point. They matter.

[MHettel]

I think it’s silly to say they don’t matter. Of course they matter. They matter for branding, the more you are in the poll year over year, the more benefit of the doubt you get in the polls. The more you are ranked, the more recruits pay attention, the more recruits pay attention, the better chance you have of getting them interested in your school. The more you are ranked, the more you get on fox, instead of fs1.. you’ll also get name brand blue bloods willing to schedule you in regular season. That brings more exposure.

Now of course they don’t matter as much because it’s a whole new world out there with nil portal etc. However, of course they matter. People watch sports, in general more people are going to watch ranked teams than non ranked teams. More eyeballs, more people I think you get the point. They matter.

I agree with this 100%.

How many ESPN highlights are there for a matchup of teams not in the top 25?

For as much as money drives the train right now this is something that is actually FREE.

[MHettel]

Well, I’m sure I’ve pointed that out before, but that hardly means I’m bent out of shape about it. If anything I’d be more bent out of shape if I thought coaches were spending more time worrying about this than what they should.

In my mind, your critiques about how the polls are voted on essentially amount to a “complaint”.

You asked me to point out one time in 15 years that you complained. Which is what I did.

And then you conceded that those were your comments.

So I’m at a loss for how this went south.

Unless you think your commentary about the voters isn’t a “complaint”…

[xubrew]

I’d consider it an observation not a complaint. And I normally point it out when someone else is complaining to explain why they shouldn’t take it too seriously. If you thought I was complaining, I wasn’t. I don’t mind it at all. I find the polls interesting to look at and think it helps the popularity of the game, but for the most part I don’t really ever care who’s ranked where.

[xubrew]

High Point, which is a team that two hours ago I would have picked to win on a neutral floor against some of the teams that are currently in the top 25, is not looking to good right now.

So I can't (and don't) claim to know how good anyone actually is yet. And, I don't think anyone else really knows either, including the voters. But it's fun to speculate! And if people did know then the season wouldn't be nearly as much fun.

[xubrew]

Xavier still not ranked in the AP. What a load of bullshit


It's not a big thing because as you said plenty of time to go, but it makes me salty how some teams are ranked just because they were ranked in preseason or because of other factors outside of their play.

Take Rutgers for instance. Ranked in preseason, have beaten no one, and still ranked ahead of X. Illinois as you pointed out, went up because they won their buy games. X has a much better win than anything they have done. Arkansas is ranked because of who their coach is.

It's just lazy. I doubt most of them watch many games, and they have little clue who Rutgers or Illinois even beat...they just know they haven't lost yet. In the same vein, they probably just noticed that X hasn't lost, but have no clue they beat a quality opponent pretty soundly.

Ok, off my soapbox now


I see your point, but in reality, only a third of those 375 teams are relevant when it comes to polling and that's being kind. I don't think you need to watch every game, that's not realistic, but i do think if you have a vote, you should use the tools that are at your disposal to make a proper vote. You should have a pretty good pulse on all the power leagues and A-10/American---the Zags etc.

In the end, polls don't matter too much, but they do help for branding, exposure etc. and for a smaller school like Xavier it makes more of an impact than say an Illinois or Arkansas


But, they are pretty accurate, right? You dont like who votes and why they vote the way the did. But its almost ALWAYS very accurate.

Who is to say what accuracy even means, there is not final determination of that. But the current top 25 is 79-8 overall. And alot of these teams will go coast to coast this year in the top 10. And its almost a certainty that someone in the top 25 will win the national championship this year, and it will be even more likely that its a top 10 team right now.

They get it right. thats what matters. Not only do they get it right, they improve as the season goes on.

you're getting all bent out shape about something that doesn't matter.


I think it’s silly to say they don’t matter. Of course they matter. They matter for branding, the more you are in the poll year over year, the more benefit of the doubt you get in the polls. The more you are ranked, the more recruits pay attention, the more recruits pay attention, the better chance you have of getting them interested in your school. The more you are ranked, the more you get on fox, instead of fs1.. you’ll also get name brand blue bloods willing to schedule you in regular season. That brings more exposure.

Now of course they don’t matter as much because it’s a whole new world out there with nil portal etc. However, of course they matter. People watch sports, in general more people are going to watch ranked teams than non ranked teams. More eyeballs, more people I think you get the point. They matter.


I agree with this 100%.

How many ESPN highlights are there for a matchup of teams not in the top 25?

For as much as money drives the train right now this is something that is actually FREE.

Okay, I officially cannot keep up. You both seem to be going back and forth between each post as to whether or not you think the polls matter or not, or whether you're aggravated by them or not.

My position has pretty much been the same for the last decade or so. I think they're interesting to look at, and I like that they exist, but at the end of the day I don't think they matter all that much and am never really aggravated by them. I think the shelf life of each poll is only as long as the week it's out, and then after that no one will even remember (much less care) who was ranked where in that specific week's poll.

[Xville]

Okay, I officially cannot keep up. You both seem to be going back and forth between each post as to whether or not you think the polls matter or not, or whether you're aggravated by them or not.

My position has pretty much been the same for the last decade or so. I think they're interesting to look at, and I like that they exist, but at the end of the day I don't think they matter all that much and am never really aggravated by them. I think the shelf life of each poll is only as long as the week it's out, and then after that no one will even remember (much less care) who was ranked where in that specific week's poll.

My position is that for a school like Xavier it matters.

[GoMuskies]

Monmouth tied late with Wichita State. Can't believe King Rice is still there. Crazy coaching arc for him there. Definitely should have tried to leave after his first year there.

I guess it wasn't his first year. But definitely should have left after 2017.

[MHettel]

Okay, I officially cannot keep up. You both seem to be going back and forth between each post as to whether or not you think the polls matter or not, or whether you're aggravated by them or not.

My position has pretty much been the same for the last decade or so. I think they're interesting to look at, and I like that they exist, but at the end of the day I don't think they matter all that much and am never really aggravated by them. I think the shelf life of each poll is only as long as the week it's out, and then after that no one will even remember (much less care) who was ranked where in that specific week's poll.

My quote of "you're getting all bent our of shape about something that doesn't matter" is made to point out the hypocrisy of your thinking. YOU dont think it matters, yet you feel the need to discredit the polls for the past decade. I actually DO think they matter.

You do see the way I wrote that, right?

[MHettel]

Here is the real beauty of it.

You can backtest the accuracy of the preseason polls

- The # 6 Preseason team finished #1
- The # 3 Preaseason team finished #2.
- 5 of the preseason top 10 teams finished the season in the top 10.
- 8 of the preseason top 10 teams finished in the top 25
- 17 of the top 25 teams in preseason finished in the top 25.
- of the 8 preseason top 25 teams that didnt finish in the top 25, 5 of them "received votes" at the end of the year.
- 3 teams in the preseason top 25 didnt receive any votes in the final poll.

- The Final top 25 Poll included 17 teams that were in the preseason top 25.
- one team in the Final top 25 also "received votes" in the preseason.
- 7 teams in the final top 25 didnt receive any votes in the preseason.


Seems pretty clear to me that picking the High end of the rankings is pretty easy.

The bottom end and "others receiving votes" is way less predictable.

- of 19 teams that "received votes" in the preseason, only ONE finished ranked.
- of those teams only 3 finished not ranked but had votes.


At the end of the season there were 24 teams that "also received votes".
- 5 of those teams were ranked in the top 25 preseason
- 3 of those teams were "receiving votes" in the preseason.
- 16 of those teams did not receive preseason votes.

Pretty conclusive to me. The top end of the preseason top 25 is fairly easy to project with accuracy. The further away from the top you get, the more the accuracy fades...

[xubrew]

My quote of "you're getting all bent our of shape about something that doesn't matter" is made to point out the hypocrisy of your thinking. YOU dont think it matters, yet you feel the need to discredit the polls for the past decade. I actually DO think they matter.

You do see the way I wrote that, right?

Do you think what I'm saying is at all unfair or inaccurate?? You actually started off by furthering my point, and it was in response to me furthering XVille's point.


In fairness...

Lets assume every team plays 2x a week. 375 teams. 375 total games since each game has 2 teams playing. Thats about 750 hours of games. There are only 168 hours in a week.

Even if the games were staggered around the clock and you did nothing but stay awake and watch games, youd see about 22% of the action.

But they arent staggered around the clock. generally during the week, you could reasonably watch 4 games a day, max (assume the earliest start is 6pm Eastern and last start is 8Pm Pacific). Thats 8 hours a day, or 40 hours a week.

On the weekends, you can probably get 12 hours in per day. So 24.

So if you were fully committed to watching the maximum amount of basketball available, you'd get about 64 hours. Thats 8.5%.

So what that they dont watch. Honestly. Best case scenario is that they are missing 91.5% of the games anyway.

I mean damn!! Why are you so bent out of shape??

Just to be clear, I don't think the polls matter all that much, I don't think the voters spend much time at all following anyone that they don't play against or cover, I think it's almost silly to expect that they would, and I'm not the slightest bit bothered by any of that.

[MHettel]

Do you think what I'm saying is at all unfair or inaccurate?? You actually started off by furthering my point, and it was in response to me furthering XVille's point.



I mean damn!! Why are you so bent out of shape??

Just to be clear, I don't think the polls matter all that much, I don't think the voters spend much time at all following anyone that they don't play against or cover, I think it's almost silly to expect that they would, and I'm not the slightest bit bothered by any of that.

Actually what I think you are saying doesn’t matter. At the end of the day, polls are just opinions. That’s the reason college football eventually evolved to a playoff. Nobody wanted the winner to be declared via opinion!

But the reality is, in spite of who votes or how, the polls do a pretty damn good job of ranking the teams before any games are played.

You know XU had preseason votes last year, right? And we had some this year too. And I’m ok with BOTH of those assessments. But obviously the result from last year took us out of the discussion early. And we shall see if our performance from here on out is enough to get us into the top 25 discussion

[X-band '01]

It's starting to dawn on me that tonight's Gonzaga-San Diego State matchup is going to be the top Pac-12 rivalry in 2 years when that conference restarts. I wonder if that's really a good thing.

[xubrew]

My position is that for a school like Xavier it matters.

Yeah, I can see how it does. But it changes every week, and when it does change the previous week is completely obsolete. Later on, if X gets into the rankings (which I think they will) it won’t matter then that they weren’t ranked now. Almost no one is going to think “Damn, they should have been ranked sooner and it really set them back that they weren’t!” At the same time, if X were in this week’s rankings and then ended up falling out later on, then it wouldn’t matter to anyone that X used to be ranked. It would almost be like they had never been ranked at all. No one cared that Miami was in the top ten last year once they fell out and fell off the face of the earth.

Look, I was just trying to say that I didn’t think it was that big of a deal and that it wasn’t worth getting salty over. And I was agreeing with your assessment of how most is the voters probably haven’t even seen Xavier play yet. And while the polls do help drive interest in the sport, and I do think it’s kind of a big deal for programs that rarely have a spotlight on them to get into the rankings (FAU two years ago for instance), I also think that from Christmas on, it’s the weekly bracket projections that people flock to more than the weekly polls. By that point it’s like the November rankings never even happened.

[xubrew]

On Friday, Nov 8th of this season, Kansas City beat Kansas Christian 124-36.

Then yesterday, that same Kansas City team did this.

https://kcroos.com/news/2024/11/18/mens-basketball-kansas-city-sets-litany-of-records-in-historic-win-over-calvary

They could have gone to the campus rec center and found a team of pick-up players that would have been more competitive than this...

[GoMuskies]

The Roos are really testing themselves in the non-con!

[xubrew]

The Roos are really testing themselves in the non-con!

When you see them just atom-bombing these small Christian college, one starts to wonder what the hell Christ ever did to them to make them so salty.

[GoMuskies]

When you see them just atom-bombing these small Christian college, one starts to wonder what the hell Christ ever did to them to make them so salty.

I guess Christ did let Creighton loose on them.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Skillings is injured for UC, knee that he just had some minor surgery on. Bad for them, he is a major player for them.

[bleedXblue]

Skillings is injured for UC, knee that he just had some minor surgery on. Bad for them, he is a major player for them.

What?

He had minor surgery about a week ago and is expected back in 2-3 weeks?

[GoMuskies]

I wonder how Kelsey felt coaching Louisville against Bellarmine. It's kind of like coaching UC against Xavier (obviously not comparing the quality of Bellarmine's program to Xavier).

Probably felt rich.

[D-West & PO-Z]

What?

He had minor surgery about a week ago and is expected back in 2-3 weeks?

Isn't that what he just said?

Likely will miss the shootout I bet.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Marquette with a nice win over Purdue.