Who should xavier retire next

[OTRMUSKIE]

Who do you think deserves to have their jersey retired? Blueitt will have his up there but here are 3 fringe guys.

James posey: Prop 48 rules, was ineligible, so sat out his freshman year. Posey ranks 16th on Xavier's all-time scoring list with 1,455 points and 10th on Xavier's all-time rebounding list with 801. Posey led XU in rebounding in each of his three seasons as a Musketeer.

Derek Strong: Strong ranks tenth in Xavier history in career rebounding (805) and 27th in career scoring (1,291).
I believe he also only played 3 years .

Lenny brown: Brown, who stands sixth on Xavier's all-time scoring list with 1,885 career points, led Xavier to the second round of the 1997 NCAA Tournament and a berth in the 1998 NCAA Tournament. XU finished third in the 1999 NIT.

[xukeith]

Romain Sato. James Posey,

[Xavier]

Meh. I’d guess a lot will say Sato. I wouldn’t say there’s a rush to get another one. It’s not ideal, but feels weird that both Holloway and Tre have numbers retired but won’t have the ceremony/jersey in rafters for awhile. Just depends when they can get back for it, but at least on this last podcast they said in a year or two.

All that is to say- I don’t want 4-5 guys in line for a ceremony. Let’s get these jerseys hung before announcing more. Just preference, doesn’t really matter obviously

[Xville]

I say none of the above. Sato is a maybe for me.

[MHettel]

Churchill Odia

[X-band '01]

Churchill Odia

Was Desmond Walker not high enough for you?

[MHettel]

Was Desmond Walker not high enough for you?

Walker played 10 games. He had an 18 & 15 game and like a weeks later he was gone.

I’ll see you Walker and raise you an Obi Harris.

[bleedXblue]

I say none of the above. Sato is a maybe for me.

HOW?

4th in points and 8th in rebounds

[Xville]

HOW?

4th in points and 8th in rebounds

I could probably be swayed either way. He is already in the X hall of fame, I just don't think we should be giving out jersey retirements like candy.

Really good player with good postseason success and from all accounts, an even better person. However, he was "only" an honorable mention All American once, and I don't feel like he ever really had a "moment."

On the other side, his stats speak for themselves, so if it happens, I'm not going to go all fire and brimstone, but I think Xavier needs to be a little careful as to not cheapen a jersey retirement.

As to the choices above, I don't think any of them should touch a jersey retirement, just my opinion.

[xubrew]

Snipe.

I'm quite disappointed his name wasn't up in the rafters a long time ago!!

[bjf123]

I could probably be swayed either way. He is already in the X hall of fame, I just don't think we should be giving out jersey retirements like candy.

Really good player with good postseason success and from all accounts, an even better person. However, he was "only" an honorable mention All American once, and I don't feel like he ever really had a "moment."

On the other side, his stats speak for themselves, so if it happens, I'm not going to go all fire and brimstone, but I think Xavier needs to be a little careful as to not cheapen a jersey retirement.

As to the choices above, I don't think any of them should touch a jersey retirement, just my opinion.

What he said. Retiring a number should not happen every year or two. Once a decade, maybe twice, should be it.


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[94GRAD]

What he said. Retiring a number should not happen every year or two. Once a decade, maybe twice, should be it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The amount of retired jerseys shouldn't matter anymore with players not restricted on what numbers they use.

[drudy23]

I always thought it was gonna be a race between Sato and Tu for the next one. I always thought both were on the edge.

Not sure anyone else meets the criteria, honestly. You have to be top tier, and then some.

HOF is up for debate, but jersey retirement is truly rare air.

[cutterX]

Snipe.

I'm quite disappointed his name wasn't up in the rafters a long time ago!!

Weren't there rumblings of stringing him from the rafters in effigy a few years back? :biggrin:

[atljar]

Im OK with no further jersey # retirements at this point

[bleedXblue]

The timing of both Tre and Tu seems weird so close together

Tu should have been announced first.....but whatever

Only other guy I put up there is Romain Sato for obvious reasons

4th in points and 8th in rebounds. Led team for 1st Elite 8 . Total class act all the way and a poster child for how we want our players to act on and off the court

[atljar]

The timing of both Tre and Tu seems weird so close together

Tu should have been announced first.....but whatever

Only other guy I put up there is Romain Sato for obvious reasons

4th in points and 8th in rebounds. Led team for 1st Elite 8 . Total class act all the way and a poster child for how we want our players to act on and off the court

I remember Miller making some comments in the past that there were some players who were never recognized that should have been. I believe this was his push for things long overdue

[MHettel]

I can make a case for Sato pretty easily...

And, when I see some of these comments, there is clearly a recency bias.

Sato played in the Shadow of DWest for 3 years. Or said differently, he was Scottie Pippin.

Sato was a top notch defender, a great scorer, and the best rebounder we've had that was a guard.

He was excellent the minute he arrived and was a constant for 4 years.

Im not gonna research it, but how many A10 Titles did we have? How many conference accolades for him?

but the real key to me is that he led the BREAKTHROUGH. In the late/mid 80's we made a Sweet 16 as Cinderella. And could not repeat that for more than 15 years. One and done. David West never did it.

But Sato did it. And not only that, he took us to an elite 8. That was a breakthrough moment for the program. It has led to 2 other E8s.

Sato has waited for.....20 years?

Trevon waited for....6? Honestly Tre was great and he deserves it. But he didnt break through and get us to the FF. and with MUCH better talent.

Same with Tu.

Sato is worthy.

Back to the "recency" bias aspect. As a fan, If you didnt wait 15 years to make another S16, then you dont really realize how long that was and how many letdowns came with it. SATO got you there.

Strong as a candidate doesnt quite have the numbers in my view. YES, he was critical to that early success, but the teams around him were pretty dang good. He just falls short.

Posey played 3 years. Not his fault, but in my mind you have to give 4. And frankly his teams kinda disappointed.

Lenny was cold blooded and gave us 4 years. He may not get the jersey retirement, but hes got the #1 highlight of all time.

[xuwillie]

Sato should be next for sure. Dude was a stud and would have dominated even in the big east.

[bleedXblue]

I can make a case for Sato pretty easily...

And, when I see some of these comments, there is clearly a recency bias.

Sato played in the Shadow of DWest for 3 years. Or said differently, he was Scottie Pippin.

Sato was a top notch defender, a great scorer, and the best rebounder we've had that was a guard.

He was excellent the minute he arrived and was a constant for 4 years.

Im not gonna research it, but how many A10 Titles did we have? How many conference accolades for him?

but the real key to me is that he led the BREAKTHROUGH. In the late/mid 80's we made a Sweet 16 as Cinderella. And could not repeat that for more than 15 years. One and done. David West never did it.

But Sato did it. And not only that, he took us to an elite 8. That was a breakthrough moment for the program. It has led to 2 other E8s.

Sato has waited for.....20 years?

Trevon waited for....6? Honestly Tre was great and he deserves it. But he didnt break through and get us to the FF. and with MUCH better talent.

Same with Tu.

Sato is worthy.

Back to the "recency" bias aspect. As a fan, If you didnt wait 15 years to make another S16, then you dont really realize how long that was and how many letdowns came with it. SATO got you there.

Strong as a candidate doesnt quite have the numbers in my view. YES, he was critical to that early success, but the teams around him were pretty dang good. He just falls short.

Posey played 3 years. Not his fault, but in my mind you have to give 4. And frankly his teams kinda disappointed.

Lenny was cold blooded and gave us 4 years. He may not get the jersey retirement, but hes got the #1 highlight of all time.

well said and I concur 10000%

[drudy23]

The more I think about it, if Tu gets in, Sato should probably be in before him, especially with the team success during his tenure.

[bleedXblue]

Sato was passed up by Tre and Tu.......I don't get it at all.

[Xville]

Sato was passed up by Tre and Tu.......I don't get it at all.

Sorry but what? Tu I can maybe understand but tre was a second team all American, all big East three years in a row, all big East tourney three years in a row, 1 seed, 2 seed and an elite eight. Also second in scoring at a big East level competition. probably the most decorated x player ever in terms of personal and team accomplishments.

[Xavier]

Wasn’t Chalmers the leader and main reason for the breakthrough, though?

I’m good with Sato being retired. Just….i always thought Chalmers was the reason for the breakthrough. Obviously everyone had a big part of it, but he was the leader.

[Xavier]

Sorry but what? Tu I can maybe understand but tre was a second team all American, all big East three years in a row, all big East tourney three years in a row, 1 seed, 2 seed and an elite eight. Also second in scoring at a big East level competition. probably the most decorated x player ever in terms of personal and team accomplishments.

100%. He has the best case for his jersey being retired.

[bleedXblue]

Sorry but what? Tu I can maybe understand but tre was a second team all American, all big East three years in a row, all big East tourney three years in a row, 1 seed, 2 seed and an elite eight. Also second in scoring at a big East level competition. probably the most decorated x player ever in terms of personal and team accomplishments.

Your either rafter worthy or not. Sato clearly is. I didn't say Tre and Tu weren't or that one wasn't more accomplished than the other. More perplexed by the timing and passing up of Sato.

[MHettel]

Wasn’t Chalmers the leader and main reason for the breakthrough, though?

I’m good with Sato being retired. Just….i always thought Chalmers was the reason for the breakthrough. Obviously everyone had a big part of it, but he was the leader.

My views on Chalmers....

Simply put he wasnt as good as Sato. It took Chalmers a little longer to start and play "Starters Minutes." Sato was very good from the beginning, and arguably Chalmers did in fact improve more. But in the end I view Chalmers as a "score first" point guard that kinda dominated the ball. I dont recall him doing much on the defensive end.

I will also credit Chalmers with being more of the "vocal" leader on that E8 team. he definitely deserves the credit for that. he was a very good player for us, but it was all offense. Whereas Sato did it with his shooting, his defense, and on the boards.

I dont really think anyone besides Sato should be in the rafters. But if you said we could add one more, and I had to put together a "short list" (5-6 candidates), I'd certainly add Lionel.

[bleedXblue]

My views on Chalmers....

Simply put he wasnt as good as Sato. It took Chalmers a little longer to start and play "Starters Minutes." Sato was very good from the beginning, and arguably Chalmers did in fact improve more. But in the end I view Chalmers as a "score first" point guard that kinda dominated the ball. I dont recall him doing much on the defensive end.

I will also credit Chalmers with being more of the "vocal" leader on that E8 team. he definitely deserves the credit for that. he was a very good player for us, but it was all offense. Whereas Sato did it with his shooting, his defense, and on the boards.

I dont really think anyone besides Sato should be in the rafters. But if you said we could add one more, and I had to put together a "short list" (5-6 candidates), I'd certainly add Lionel.

Agreed no one else....Posey and Lenny Brown would be on the list of "close but no cigar"

[xuwin]

There is a good chance that there will never be another player talented enough to have his number in the rafters that will also stay 4 years and get his degree. Times have changed and the NBA ready players will never stay that long.

[Xavier]

I’m not sure that’s true. In all honesty, if Boum led the team to a final four, I’d retire the number. If there’s a clear cut leader of the first final four team- he’s rafter worthy to me.

Don’t want to derail the thread but I think we will see the better teams will still have strong cores with transfers being good fits within that core. So you certainly could and should see solid 4 year players

[MHettel]

I’m not sure that’s true. In all honesty, if Boum led the team to a final four, I’d retire the number. If there’s a clear cut leader of the first final four team- he’s rafter worthy to me.

Don’t want to derail the thread but I think we will see the better teams will still have strong cores with transfers being good fits within that core. So you certainly could and should see solid 4 year players

I have my doubts on this. Trevon was a weird exception. He was around top 50 as a recruit, but was always looked at as a 4 year player because he didn't have a game that could translate to the NBA due to size and athleticism. That worked out perfect for us.

I just think its going to just get harder and harder for a Freshmen to just come in a play (or start) right away. I think if there is an obvious opening in the starting lineup for the upcoming year, then we will try to fill it with a transfer. So the freshman will need to beat out the transfer AND anyone else on the roster already at that position. The exception would be a true stud freshman that is so good, you expect that he can just come in and start....in which case he's probably leave early to the pros or gonna cost you a fortune in NIL if he stays. Unless you find another Tre.

Possible? Yes
Likely? Not so much

[drudy23]

I’m not sure that’s true. In all honesty, if Boum led the team to a final four, I’d retire the number. If there’s a clear cut leader of the first final four team- he’s rafter worthy to me.

Don’t want to derail the thread but I think we will see the better teams will still have strong cores with transfers being good fits within that core. So you certainly could and should see solid 4 year players

No chance.

[MADXSTER]

Sato, Posey, Doellman

Sato - Fifa HOF
Posey - 3 NBA Championship rings
Doellman - Europe's MVP and highest paid player

All are great accomplishments after X. And they were not slouches during their time at X. Also took X to it's greatest heights.

[MHettel]

Sato, Posey, Doellman

Sato - Fifa HOF
Posey - 3 NBA Championship rings
Doellman - Europe's MVP and highest paid player

All are great accomplishments after X. And they were not slouches during their time at X. Also took X to it's greatest heights.

No doubt about those accolades. But I’m thinking to get into the rafters, it’s gotta be all about what you did at X.

Posey played only 3 years and those teams didn’t do any damage in the Tourney. And if I had to pick a guy from that Era, it would be Lenny.

Kind of the same story with Doellman. Hard to isolate Doellman as a guy that worthy of getting his jersey retired while you also have Cage, Duncan, and Hammer overlapping on those teams. Very good TEAMS, but really no dominate guy.

[XU Rocks!]

In my mind, it should be based solely on their XU career, not their pro career. And you shouldn't have to "make a case". It should just be unanimously understood and agreed. I don't think anyone disagrees with any of the names up in the rafters now, and I suspect everyone would agree Tu and Trevon are no brainers. But if you have to start "making a case", and you retire too many, it starts to become watered down. As an exanple, the XU Hall of Fame adding a 1-year player like Jordan Crawford based on his post-XU pro career to me is an insult to all the other 3 and 4-year XU athletes in the XUHOF. That's watering down to me. Obviously many may view things differently, and that's okay too.

[kane79]

ALL-AMERICAN: Sporting News Third Team All-American, the first XU player on one of the top three teams on a major All-American listing since 2003 National Player of the Year David West.

NCAA TOURNAMENT STAR: Earned a spot on the five-member NCAA Tournament All-West Region Team after averaging 29.0 ppg. for Xavier's three games, including a career-high 32 against Kansas State in the Regional Semifinal...had a 28-point effort in the NCAA First Round win over Minnesota and a 27-point game in the NCAA Second Round win over Pittsburgh.

MORE HONORS: Sporting News and foxsports.com Atlantic 10 Conference Player of the Year...voted First Team All-Atlantic 10 by the A-10 coaches...named to the USBWA (United States Basketball Writers Association) All-District V Team, which covers Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin...NABC (National Association of Basketball Coaches) All-District 4 First Team...earned Atlantic 10 Player of the Week honors three times.

SCORING LEADERSHIP: Led the Atlantic 10 Conference and was 21st in the nation in scoring at 20.5 ppg., including 24.8 ppg. over the final six games...scored a career-high 30 points at Wake Forest on Jan. 3 to go with six rebounds, four assists and four steals...scored a game-high 26 points at Saint Louis on Feb. 24, including 17 in the decisive second half...scored a game-high 25 points at UMass that included two big three-pointers that keyed a decisive late 9-0 run...had a big game against Rhode Island on Jan. 23 as he scored a game-high 21 points to go with a collegiate career-high 12 rebounds and a Xavier career-high six assists...led Xavier in scoring in 25 games...scored 20 or more points 20 times, including the each of the last six games...scored in double figures in 34 of 35 games, including 31 straight games...scored 14 of his 16 points in the win over Dayton on Jan. 16 in the decisive second half...also contributed 4.7 rpg. (third on the team) and 2.9 apg. (second on the team)...ranked sixth in the A-10 in three-point field goal percentage at 39.1 percent (79-of-202)...sixth in the A-10 in free-throw shooting at 77.3 percent (119-of-154).

SCORING LEADER: Led Xavier and the Atlantic 10 in scoring at 20.5 ppg...XU's first conference scoring leader since Byron Larkin, who led the MCC at 21.8 ppg. in 1985-86...in fact, XU has not had a player average 17 ppg. or more since National Player of the Year David West scored 20.1 ppg. as a senior in the 2002-03 season...his 718 points are the most ever by a Xavier sophomore and the fourth-highest point total scored by any XU player.

Where as Crawford played on 5 teams over 6 years and avg 12 pts and 24 mins played over his career. So saying he was elected based on his pro career is dismissing a whole lot he did in his one year at XU

[MHettel]

ALL-AMERICAN: Sporting News Third Team All-American, the first XU player on one of the top three teams on a major All-American listing since 2003 National Player of the Year David West.

NCAA TOURNAMENT STAR: Earned a spot on the five-member NCAA Tournament All-West Region Team after averaging 29.0 ppg. for Xavier's three games, including a career-high 32 against Kansas State in the Regional Semifinal...had a 28-point effort in the NCAA First Round win over Minnesota and a 27-point game in the NCAA Second Round win over Pittsburgh.

MORE HONORS: Sporting News and foxsports.com Atlantic 10 Conference Player of the Year...voted First Team All-Atlantic 10 by the A-10 coaches...named to the USBWA (United States Basketball Writers Association) All-District V Team, which covers Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin...NABC (National Association of Basketball Coaches) All-District 4 First Team...earned Atlantic 10 Player of the Week honors three times.

SCORING LEADERSHIP: Led the Atlantic 10 Conference and was 21st in the nation in scoring at 20.5 ppg., including 24.8 ppg. over the final six games...scored a career-high 30 points at Wake Forest on Jan. 3 to go with six rebounds, four assists and four steals...scored a game-high 26 points at Saint Louis on Feb. 24, including 17 in the decisive second half...scored a game-high 25 points at UMass that included two big three-pointers that keyed a decisive late 9-0 run...had a big game against Rhode Island on Jan. 23 as he scored a game-high 21 points to go with a collegiate career-high 12 rebounds and a Xavier career-high six assists...led Xavier in scoring in 25 games...scored 20 or more points 20 times, including the each of the last six games...scored in double figures in 34 of 35 games, including 31 straight games...scored 14 of his 16 points in the win over Dayton on Jan. 16 in the decisive second half...also contributed 4.7 rpg. (third on the team) and 2.9 apg. (second on the team)...ranked sixth in the A-10 in three-point field goal percentage at 39.1 percent (79-of-202)...sixth in the A-10 in free-throw shooting at 77.3 percent (119-of-154).

SCORING LEADER: Led Xavier and the Atlantic 10 in scoring at 20.5 ppg...XU's first conference scoring leader since Byron Larkin, who led the MCC at 21.8 ppg. in 1985-86...in fact, XU has not had a player average 17 ppg. or more since National Player of the Year David West scored 20.1 ppg. as a senior in the 2002-03 season...his 718 points are the most ever by a Xavier sophomore and the fourth-highest point total scored by any XU player.

Where as Crawford played on 5 teams over 6 years and avg 12 pts and 24 mins played over his career. So saying he was elected based on his pro career is dismissing a whole lot he did in his one year at XU

This play. Nice hustle, JC

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1VeanV6lA-M&pp=ygUUWGF2aWVyIHZzIGJ1dGxlciBlbmQ%3D

[Xavier]

Looks like Sato was the answer

[bleedXblue]

Looks like Sato was the answer

And should be and is very well deserving.......i think there will be a long lull between now and the next one.

[waggy]

Congrats to Romain! Well deserved.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Who do you think deserves to have their jersey retired? Blueitt will have his up there but here are 3 fringe guys.

James posey: Prop 48 rules, was ineligible, so sat out his freshman year. Posey ranks 16th on Xavier's all-time scoring list with 1,455 points and 10th on Xavier's all-time rebounding list with 801. Posey led XU in rebounding in each of his three seasons as a Musketeer.

Derek Strong: Strong ranks tenth in Xavier history in career rebounding (805) and 27th in career scoring (1,291).
I believe he also only played 3 years .

Lenny brown: Brown, who stands sixth on Xavier's all-time scoring list with 1,885 career points, led Xavier to the second round of the 1997 NCAA Tournament and a berth in the 1998 NCAA Tournament. XU finished third in the 1999 NIT.

I am obviously late to this discussion and a lot has happened (not sure if this was posted before or after Tre and Tu announcement). I think it was obvious that Tre was next and the most deserving former Muskie. After that I wasn't positive they would retire anyone else's any time soon given how long it had been.

That being said Tu was very deserving and I thought rightfully next in line. Now with the news of Sato I think that could have gone either way but he clearly has the stats in program history to be deserving.

Now I don't think there is another formwer player worthy of being in the rafters. HOF guys? Absolutely. Hanging in the rafters? No, not imo.

With how rarely guys are and will be around for long careers at one school now it will probably be a very long time we hang one again.

[D-West & PO-Z]

HOW?

4th in points and 8th in rebounds


I could probably be swayed either way. He is already in the X hall of fame, I just don't think we should be giving out jersey retirements like candy.

Really good player with good postseason success and from all accounts, an even better person. However, he was "only" an honorable mention All American once, and I don't feel like he ever really had a "moment."

On the other side, his stats speak for themselves, so if it happens, I'm not going to go all fire and brimstone, but I think Xavier needs to be a little careful as to not cheapen a jersey retirement.

As to the choices above, I don't think any of them should touch a jersey retirement, just my opinion.

I am happy for Sato and he is deserving but the fact he was never the best player (or most important player) on any Xavier team he was on would be an argument against. Obviously tough to be better than the GOAT West and then Chalmers was the leader and spark/MVP in '04 despite Sato being a better overall player with a better career.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Tu should have been announced first.....but whatever



Disagree, Tre was the obvious next choice and the most deserving. Tre and Tu are my 2nd and 3rd favorite X players ever, I love both, but if you could only do one of them it is Tre. What he did in a far superior conference over 4 years is I think underrated by Xavier fans at this point. 3 time All Big East 1st team.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Sorry but what? Tu I can maybe understand but tre was a second team all American, all big East three years in a row, all big East tourney three years in a row, 1 seed, 2 seed and an elite eight. Also second in scoring at a big East level competition. probably the most decorated x player ever in terms of personal and team accomplishments.

Didn't see this before my last post but you nailed it. I think the opposite of recency bias is somehow happening.

Let's just say, I don't think there is any coincidence the order in which these players were announced by Xavier.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Wasn’t Chalmers the leader and main reason for the breakthrough, though?

I’m good with Sato being retired. Just….i always thought Chalmers was the reason for the breakthrough. Obviously everyone had a big part of it, but he was the leader.

Also didn't read this one before, but you are absolutely correct. That was Chalmers team, no doubt about it.

Love Sato, he was amazing and is deserving, but no Xavier team was ever "his".

[bleedXblue]

I am happy for Sato and he is deserving but the fact he was never the best player (or most important player) on any Xavier team he was on would be an argument against. Obviously tough to be better than the GOAT West and then Chalmers was the leader and spark/MVP in '04 despite Sato being a better overall player with a better career.



great players play on the same teams all the time and thats never been a determining factor for HOF status in any league/sport?

Whatever point you're trying to make doesnt negate what Sato did for X or his validity for having a jersey in the rafters

[bleedXblue]

Also didn't read this one before, but you are absolutely correct. That was Chalmers team, no doubt about it.

Love Sato, he was amazing and is deserving, but no Xavier team was ever "his".

Was it Chalmers team when he didnt play well for 2/3 of the year to start the season? LOL, whatever

Sato was the glue and probably one of the most consistent players in all 4 years of his career at X.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Was it Chalmers team when he didnt play well for 2/3 of the year to start the season? LOL, whatever



Yes, which is exactly why as Chalmers went the team went. He wasn't good, X wasn't good, then he was unreal and X took off.

Love Sato, again very deserving of the honor, has the numbers, I am very happy for him.

[XUBison]

great players play on the same teams all the time and thats never been a determining factor for HOF status in any league/sport?

Whatever point you're trying to make doesnt negate what Sato did for X or his validity for having a jersey in the rafters

I think the point Rainman is making, is that he must respond to every single post on this site, or he just can’t leave the house.