UConn

[Xville]

Sounds like they are close to saying bye bye. Well, maybe not close but they are in negotiations.

Football and their tv contracts have ruined everything

[GoMuskies]

Going to the Big XII in 2031. Lol. The college sports world will be completely different in 2031. I wouldn't get too excited if I were a UConn fan. They should continue to be great on the hardwood in the meantime.

Sorry, just saw the 2026 for other sports. Bizarre. Why would they want into the Big XII earlier without football?

[Xville]

Going to the Big XII in 2031. Lol. The college sports world will be completely different in 2031. I wouldn't get too excited if I were a UConn fan. They should continue to be great on the hardwood in the meantime.

Sorry, just saw the 2026 for other sports. Bizarre. Why would they want into the Big XII earlier without football?

Guessing the money in the big 12 is still more than what they are getting in the Big East regardless of football.

This would suck for the Big East. UConn fans are beyond obnoxious ( they have a right to be), but UConn is great for the league. Cant we just give the big 12, DePaul and call it good?

[Xavier]

Yeah they apparently pitched it to the Big 12 presidents as a “here is what we are doing to get UConn football on par for big12 by 2031, here is how we can help boost it while doing so from 2026 on”.

Just appears to be the pitch to get them the invite they want. This feels different than last year. Last year the rumor was bball only, which never was happening. It would stink losing UConn, seems inevitable…As does the ACC falling apart and maybe then some of those teams come to the Big East.

[paulxu]

Bummer. I've totally forgotten where we are with the BE media negotiations, but guess this might impact our own revenue.

[xudash]

Yeah they apparently pitched it to the Big 12 presidents as a “here is what we are doing to get UConn football on par for big12 by 2031, here is how we can help boost it while doing so from 2026 on”.

Just appears to be the pitch to get them the invite they want. This feels different than last year. Last year the rumor was bball only, which never was happening. It would stink losing UConn, seems inevitable…As does the ACC falling apart and maybe then some of those teams come to the Big East.

I wonder if they’ll approach Ssudi Arabia for the capital for the required improvements.

ESPN article says talks are going on, nothing firm yet, and that Yormark wants it and that UCONN is groveling for it.

There is still some number of conference schools that are against it.

[MHettel]

I wonder if they’ll approach Ssudi Arabia for the capital for the required improvements.

ESPN article says talks are going on, nothing firm yet, and that Yormark wants it and that UCONN is groveling for it.

There is still some number of conference schools that are against it.

Not good. I think we like to see the “blue” side of things, but the reality is that we don’t control our own future. We’ve found a way to band together with some other schools that are similarly situated to create a position that is bigger than the sum of the individual schools.

UConn is essential to the Big East, and the future of the members.

Not good. Also not much that we can do.

[Xville]

I wonder if they’ll approach Ssudi Arabia for the capital for the required improvements.

ESPN article says talks are going on, nothing firm yet, and that Yormark wants it and that UCONN is groveling for it.

There is still some number of conference schools that are against it.

Yormark is the type of commissioner the big East needs, not the one that lives in the past. Been clamoring for that for a while now. For the big East to continue to be where they are, they must get aggressive and forward thinking

[Xville]

Not good. I think we like to see the “blue” side of things, but the reality is that we don’t control our own future. We’ve found a way to band together with some other schools that are similarly situated to create a position that is bigger than the sum of the individual schools.

UConn is essential to the Big East, and the future of the members.

Not good. Also not much that we can do.

If UConn is out, the big East needs to throw the kitchen sink at a program like Gonzaga, at least for basketball.

[Xavier]

Not good. I think we like to see the “blue” side of things, but the reality is that we don’t control our own future. We’ve found a way to band together with some other schools that are similarly situated to create a position that is bigger than the sum of the individual schools.

UConn is essential to the Big East, and the future of the members.

Not good. Also not much that we can do.

Out of curiosity, did people feel like BE was dying before UConn joined? Never got that feeling but also wasn’t as deep into it.

I’d agree, go grab Gonzaga if UConn is out. Grab Gonzaga if UConn is in. But it won’t kill the conference regardless. What the NCAA will look like 6 years from now is anyone’s guess. UConn staying or going won’t make a big difference.

[waggy]

Count me on the no additions side of things. Personally the BE was kinda too big with 11 schools, but you do it for the right programs like UConn, or say Notre Dame. But not Gonzaga.

[drudy23]

If UConn is out, the big East needs to throw the kitchen sink at a program like Gonzaga, at least for basketball.

Or Duke.

[drudy23]

If you've ever seen UConn play a football game, there's no chance they will be Big 12 ready in 6 years. The talent gap is immense, as they are roughly the equivalent of a D2 program. It will also likely take resources away from hoops to bridge that enormous gap. Then you run the risk of having a mediocre football program, and a basketball program that you rip from the pinnacle of the sport.

Money talks, but they're never going to be a threat in the Big 12 in football.

[MHettel]

If you've ever seen UConn play a football game, there's no chance they will be Big 12 ready in 6 years. The talent gap is immense, as they are roughly the equivalent of a D2 program. It will also likely take resources away from hoops to bridge that enormous gap. Then you run the risk of having a mediocre football program, and a basketball program that you rip from the pinnacle of the sport.

Money talks, but they're never going to be a threat in the Big 12 in football.

Do you think that is their goal? To compete in the upper half of the B12? Or is it to just grab a seat in the never ending game of musical chairs.

[JTG]

Do you think that is their goal? To compete in the upper half of the B12? Or is it to just grab a seat in the never ending game of musical chairs.

They are not ND. They can't be independent in football. It's either go to a league with football or drop the sport, or do Pioneer.

[paulxu]

Is part of it the B12 wanting presence in the NE, and trying to keep up with the SEC and B10?

[xudash]

Do you think that is their goal? To compete in the upper half of the B12? Or is it to just grab a seat in the never ending game of musical chairs.

THAT should be the real question and the primary focus here: WHAT IS THE TRUE NET VALUE OF SUCH A SEAT?

Let’s start with a key premise: successful sports ( i.e. football and basketball, primarily), provide a front porch for a University. Successful programs build brand and brand awareness, leading to more applications on the one hand and more contributions on the other.

So, what kind of investment is required in order to operate successfully here? Obviously, football is different from basketball. Look at how smaller, private schools, including a number of Catholic schools, have leveraged basketball to build national awareness; to build their brands. Yes, it’s all relative: football and bigger schools lead to bigger brands and more awareness, but that does not discount the fact that Xavier, in our case, has become a national university drawing from across the country, helped by its success in basketball.

Football gets a lot more complicated. In fact, I will submit that it has become unsolvable for any program outside of the SEC and B1G. We already know that there are about 20 programs in total that can be said to operate on a profitable (surplus) basis. They come from those two conferences, as well as South Bend, Indiana. There are even programs in those two conferences that move forward by the grace of their shares of lucrative media agreements.

Big 12 and ACC programs? IMHO, a brutal outlook for them long term. The COSTS required to make that seat valuable are high and getting higher and they don’t go away. Those conferences are guaranteed one seat each in the new 12-team playoff system. That’s it. You don’t make it through a conference championship game, then welcome to the weed-eater bowl. What is the value of that “front porch“ overtime considering the amount of investment required to even give your program a chance of operating at that level?

Having noted that, there is no doubt that you get to say that you are in the game and that you have a seat. It’s just more likely that certain programs - actually, a large number of programs by mathematical reality - will find themselves operating in the middle of the pack or the bottom end of these conferences. Looking at this objectively, and using UC as an example, I cannot see where they are well positioned to compete for a Big 12 conference championship moving forward. I see them finding it hard to operate above .500 seasons year in and year out. What might attendance look like at Nippert in 2030, following years of middling performance?

If I haven’t put you to sleep yet, let’s now bring UCONN into the conversation. UCONN makes UC look like a juggernaut. How much money will it take to enable the Huskies to go to Provo in seven years to keep from losing by four touchdowns to Utah?

The seat will only be valuable if it is accompanied by winning!

Yet UCONN leadership is hell-bent on obtaining the seat. They already operate from a substantial deficit position. The amount of money that is going to be required to get them to even a respectable level is substantial. Hurley cannot possibly be happy about this idea.

Cost:Benefit. The costs are rather staggering. The benefit isn’t exactly clear, and it will or will not come in a period of flux and instability, and it may very well damage UCONN’s true flagship sport.

[OTRMUSKIE]

F UCONN, the Beast allowed them back in only to say thanks but now
We are leaving you. College sports is OOC. Paying the players only going to get worse. I say in the next 5 years there will be a lot less fans of the over 40 crowd. I’m getting pretty sick and tired of where this is heading.

[drudy23]

THAT should be the real question and the primary focus here: WHAT IS THE TRUE NET VALUE OF SUCH A SEAT?

Let’s start with a key premise: successful sports ( i.e. football and basketball, primarily), provide a front porch for a University. Successful programs build brand and brand awareness, leading to more applications on the one hand and more contributions on the other.

So, what kind of investment is required in order to operate successfully here? Obviously, football is different from basketball. Look at how smaller, private schools, including a number of Catholic schools, have leveraged basketball to build national awareness; to build their brands. Yes, it’s all relative: football and bigger schools lead to bigger brands and more awareness, but that does not discount the fact that Xavier, in our case, has become a national university drawing from across the country, helped by its success in basketball.

Football gets a lot more complicated. In fact, I will submit that it has become unsolvable for any program outside of the SEC and B1G. We already know that there are about 20 programs in total that can be said to operate on a profitable (surplus) basis. They come from those two conferences, as well as South Bend, Indiana. There are even programs in those two conferences that move forward by the grace of their shares of lucrative media agreements.

Big 12 and ACC programs? IMHO, a brutal outlook for them long term. The COSTS required to make that seat valuable are high and getting higher and they don’t go away. Those conferences are guaranteed one seat each in the new 12-team playoff system. That’s it. You don’t make it through a conference championship game, then welcome to the weed-eater bowl. What is the value of that “front porch“ overtime considering the amount of investment required to even give your program a chance of operating at that level?

Having noted that, there is no doubt that you get to say that you are in the game and that you have a seat. It’s just more likely that certain programs - actually, a large number of programs by mathematical reality - will find themselves operating in the middle of the pack or the bottom end of these conferences. Looking at this objectively, and using UC as an example, I cannot see where they are well positioned to compete for a Big 12 conference championship moving forward. I see them finding it hard to operate above .500 seasons year in and year out. What might attendance look like at Nippert in 2030, following years of middling performance?

If I haven’t put you to sleep yet, let’s now bring UCONN into the conversation. UCONN makes UC look like a juggernaut. How much money will it take to enable the Huskies to go to Provo in seven years to keep from losing by four touchdowns to Utah?

The seat will only be valuable if it is accompanied by winning!

Yet UCONN leadership is hell-bent on obtaining the seat. They already operate from a substantial deficit position. The amount of money that is going to be required to get them to even a respectable level is substantial. Hurley cannot possibly be happy about this idea.

Cost:Benefit. The costs are rather staggering. The benefit isn’t exactly clear, and it will or will not come in a period of flux and instability, and it may very well damage UCONN’s true flagship sport.

Agree.

When UC flipped the script to football, it put the basketball program in no man's land for a decade. They went from having a great national basketball brand, to having two relatively average programs today. It probably worked out for them from a $ perspective, but likely not significantly as both programs are still both middle of the pack in each respective sport. And they were in a much more favorable spot than UConn is with football. It would take UConn 10+ years to even get them to relevancy in football.

[xudash]

Agree.

When UC flipped the script to football, it put the basketball program in no man's land for a decade. They went from having a great national basketball brand, to having two relatively average programs today. It probably worked out for them from a $ perspective, but likely not significantly as both programs are still both middle of the pack in each respective sport. And they were in a much more favorable spot than UConn is with football. It would take UConn 10+ years to even get them to relevancy in football.

It simply amazes me that most fans seem to focus in on conference/media payouts without considering the rest of the income statement that comes along with these athletic businesses ...... er, athletic programs for student-athletes. I go back to the point that there are truly only about 20 of these large all-sports athletic departments that operate on a net surplus basis.

THE SIMPLE FACT IS THAT IF YOU WANT TO PLAY "COLLEGE FOOTBALL" AT THIS LEVEL, YOUR EXPENSES ARE GOING TO GO UP, AND RATHER DRAMATICALLY. I'm talking about operating expenses here. Capital expenditures/improvements are an entirely different matter, and can really send an athletic department into "orbit."

Think about UC's new indoor football practice facility. About $140 million. I have no doubt that it will be a nice facility. What I don't get is that it is parked close to a stadium that only seats about 40,000 people. Pumping money like that into a program that has such game day revenue limitations kind of baffles my mind. Of course, they believe they HAVE TO DO IT. They have to stay in the game, because their academic world will come to an end if they can't play football well. They'll continue to pump on student fees to help fund the department, and they'll continue to pump on alumni donations to help with NIL, etc.

But what happens when it goes into full employment / revenue sharing mode? We'll have to put up with that, too, but without the ball and chain of non-SEC/B1G football around our necks.

Even a university that has grown to 41k students only has so much fundraising bandwidth. $70 million into Nippert. $140 million into the new practice facility. 5.3 Arena received its lipstick on a pig renovation. I wonder where Wes Miller's practice facility for hoops stands at this point.

Then you have UCONN, which is facing a $175 million facelift to their crappy off campus stadium, or a new build on campus that will be a hell of a lot more than that.

All of this in order to where a badge on your chest that says you are a member of the distant 3rd best conference in the United States. Nice.

But they have to do it. You know, because of the REVENUE.

[GoMuskies]

I'm beginning to think the University of Chicago, Sewanee and Holy Cross were brilliant to largely get out this game early on.

[Xavgrad08]

Really curious on the wording in the new Big East media agreement with Fox/NBC on losing a member/members. This quote from Big East commissioner from August is interesting. "These are contractual relationships. If a school wants to leave, conferences provide for that. ... So you try to protect yourself a little bit with an exit fee that will help make up for whatever revenues might be lost because a team is leaving, and thatÂ’s what we have with UConn and everybody else".

https://www.newstimes.com/sports/uconn/article/big-12-expansion-football-basketball-yormack-19719636.php

If the Big 12 invites UCONN ( still not 100% sure it happens) then Fox/NBC might dictate expansion to offset. That is where it will get very interesting.

I have deeper thoughts on where College Basketball might be heading with SEC,Big Ten and Big 12 power leading to a change in the Tournament and other changes. I will save those thoughts for a different time. In the meantime I hope the UCONN situation gets resolved either way quickly.

Separately, Big 12 Commissioner is probably the biggest threat to the current Big East. I hope he moves onto another job in the next couple years because he really values Basketball properties.

[X-band '01]

I'm beginning to think the University of Chicago, Sewanee and Holy Cross were brilliant to largely get out this game early on.

You mean like Tulane and the SEC?

[GoMuskies]

You mean like Tulane and the SEC?

Sewanee got out of the SEC and never looked back. Tulane got out and has been chasing it ever since. Very different.

[xudash]

Really curious on the wording in the new Big East media agreement with Fox/NBC on losing a member/members. This quote from Big East commissioner from August is interesting. "These are contractual relationships. If a school wants to leave, conferences provide for that. ... So you try to protect yourself a little bit with an exit fee that will help make up for whatever revenues might be lost because a team is leaving, and thatÂ’s what we have with UConn and everybody else".

https://www.newstimes.com/sports/uconn/article/big-12-expansion-football-basketball-yormack-19719636.php

If the Big 12 invites UCONN ( still not 100% sure it happens) then Fox/NBC might dictate expansion to offset. That is where it will get very interesting.

I have deeper thoughts on where College Basketball might be heading with SEC,Big Ten and Big 12 power leading to a change in the Tournament and other changes. I will save those thoughts for a different time. In the meantime I hope the UCONN situation gets resolved either way quickly.

Separately, Big 12 Commissioner is probably the biggest threat to the current Big East. I hope he moves onto another job in the next couple years because he really values Basketball properties.

If UCONN leaves, then the Big East obviously will lose available content - televised UCONN games - that have otherwise been factored into the new media agreement(s).

$7.3 million per school per year will go down, but would hopefully settle at a figure that would still be better than the per school payout when the deal was originally put together in 2013 by Fox. In other words, even with the loss of UCONN, will the Big East, back to its "original" 10 from the 2013 reset, be deemed to be a more valuable property than when it reset back then?

Now you get to the question of expansion. I will submit for the nth time that expansion HAS TO BE ACCRETIVE TO THE EXISTING (REMAINING) MEMBERS. The Big East will have no desire to bring in a new school that dilutes the annual per team payout. I would think that Fox would not directly care, as they'll end up picking up UCONN on the flipside with their Big 12 programming - they'll be able to fill their viewership windows otherwise. They won't want to hurt their own property by making it make less money.

The cocktail napkin sketch for all of this to me, where the emphasis is on both cosmetic and financial objectives, fleshes out to involving the Big East finding a way to bring in Gonzaga. Cosmetic in the sense that the Big East lands a basketball-centric power to replace UCONN. Financial in the sense that such a replacement will at least be sum zero or mildly accretive (assumed).

Bringing in Gonzaga is fraught with issues and risks, but they at least would be absolutely aligned: Catholic/Jesuit and basketball first.

EDIT: It will absolutely suck to go under $7 milion for the annual payout, but it is what it is.

[nuts4xu]

I feel it's remarkable when a large state university can't field a quality football program.

UConn falls into this category.

They have no business playing football in the Big 12.

The rest of their programs (baseball, men's and women's basketball, soccer, etc.) are also better off in a league like the Big East.

If they want to leave, it's a shame but the BE will be fine.

[Xville]

THAT should be the real question and the primary focus here: WHAT IS THE TRUE NET VALUE OF SUCH A SEAT?

Let’s start with a key premise: successful sports ( i.e. football and basketball, primarily), provide a front porch for a University. Successful programs build brand and brand awareness, leading to more applications on the one hand and more contributions on the other.

So, what kind of investment is required in order to operate successfully here? Obviously, football is different from basketball. Look at how smaller, private schools, including a number of Catholic schools, have leveraged basketball to build national awareness; to build their brands. Yes, it’s all relative: football and bigger schools lead to bigger brands and more awareness, but that does not discount the fact that Xavier, in our case, has become a national university drawing from across the country, helped by its success in basketball.

Football gets a lot more complicated. In fact, I will submit that it has become unsolvable for any program outside of the SEC and B1G. We already know that there are about 20 programs in total that can be said to operate on a profitable (surplus) basis. They come from those two conferences, as well as South Bend, Indiana. There are even programs in those two conferences that move forward by the grace of their shares of lucrative media agreements.

Big 12 and ACC programs? IMHO, a brutal outlook for them long term. The COSTS required to make that seat valuable are high and getting higher and they don’t go away. Those conferences are guaranteed one seat each in the new 12-team playoff system. That’s it. You don’t make it through a conference championship game, then welcome to the weed-eater bowl. What is the value of that “front porch“ overtime considering the amount of investment required to even give your program a chance of operating at that level?

Having noted that, there is no doubt that you get to say that you are in the game and that you have a seat. It’s just more likely that certain programs - actually, a large number of programs by mathematical reality - will find themselves operating in the middle of the pack or the bottom end of these conferences. Looking at this objectively, and using UC as an example, I cannot see where they are well positioned to compete for a Big 12 conference championship moving forward. I see them finding it hard to operate above .500 seasons year in and year out. What might attendance look like at Nippert in 2030, following years of middling performance?

If I haven’t put you to sleep yet, let’s now bring UCONN into the conversation. UCONN makes UC look like a juggernaut. How much money will it take to enable the Huskies to go to Provo in seven years to keep from losing by four touchdowns to Utah?

The seat will only be valuable if it is accompanied by winning!

Yet UCONN leadership is hell-bent on obtaining the seat. They already operate from a substantial deficit position. The amount of money that is going to be required to get them to even a respectable level is substantial. Hurley cannot possibly be happy about this idea.

Cost:Benefit. The costs are rather staggering. The benefit isn’t exactly clear, and it will or will not come in a period of flux and instability, and it may very well damage UCONN’s true flagship sport.

Is that accurate? I have heard anecdotally it's not accurate so take that for what it's worth, and this is USA today so again who really knows for sure but here's the link.

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances

This is a fun site:

https://www.sportico.com/business/commerce/2023/college-sports-finances-database-intercollegiate-1234646029/

A Few notes:

I don't think schools are in the business of losing money, nor making moves to where they are not going to make money. IMHO UCONN would definitely benefit from going to the Big 12, and with Yomark at the helm, I completely disagree that that conference has a bad long term outlook. Let's be honest, winning is secondary...if UCONN football can just be mediocre in that conference, most likely it's a financial windfall compared to where they are now.

Louisville had possibly the worst two year span in the history of big time college basketball athletics and I know for a fact they still made money the last two years.

Lastly, I understand that this is operating rev/exp and capital is a whole different matter, but just a hunch that a lot of those dollars are student/donor driven and the athletic programs pump in a small amount.

[xudash]

Is that accurate? I have heard anecdotally it's not accurate so take that for what it's worth, and this is USA today so again who really knows for sure but here's the link.

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances

This is a fun site:

https://www.sportico.com/business/commerce/2023/college-sports-finances-database-intercollegiate-1234646029/

A Few notes:

I don't think schools are in the business of losing money, nor making moves to where they are not going to make money. IMHO UCONN would definitely benefit from going to the Big 12, and with Yomark at the helm, I completely disagree that that conference has a bad long term outlook. Let's be honest, winning is secondary...if UCONN football can just be mediocre in that conference, most likely it's a financial windfall compared to where they are now.

Louisville had possibly the worst two year span in the history of big time college basketball athletics and I know for a fact they still made money the last two years.

Lastly, I understand that this is operating rev/exp and capital is a whole different matter, but just a hunch that a lot of those dollars are student/donor driven and the athletic programs pump in a small amount.

Your USA Today link does not work.

What are you saying isn't accurate: that there are only a handful of programs that operate at a surplus? You need to consider the revenue line item that reads "Direct Institutional Support." That, I believe, is funding coming from student fees, in most cases. From my way of looking at it, I strip that out, because student fees could otherwise be used for something like, well like something having to do with education, since that is what these places are primarily in the business of providing. That line item is a subsidy, and there is no other way of looking at it.

Now consider when revenue sharing / direct compensation comes into play. That is going to blow up a lot of these schools.

[Xville]

Your USA Today link does not work.

What are you saying isn't accurate: that there are only a handful of programs that operate at a surplus? You need to consider the revenue line item that reads "Direct Institutional Support." That, I believe, is funding coming from student fees, in most cases. From my way of looking at it, I strip that out, because student fees could otherwise be used for something like, well like something having to do with education, since that is what these places are primarily in the business of providing. That line item is a subsidy, and there is no other way of looking at it.

Now consider when revenue sharing / direct compensation comes into play. That is going to blow up a lot of these schools.

I believe there are a lot more than 20 currently that operate at a surplus, I believe it's probably more like 40-50. I understand what you mean by the line item though...even though for a school like Clemson they are operating athletically at a profit even taking into consideration that line item. (I do wonder what all that line item encompasses.)

As far as rev share/ direct compensation, I agree it will hurt a lot of schools. However, I'm sure that for the P4 and probably the big east, they will just add it to the cost of the tickets/donations and be just fine. In the end, as others have said here previously, we will be the ones paying for it, not the schools. However, at least we'll get some entertainment out of it i guess.

Take X for example...27 home games is that right? average 10k a game....10 dollar "NIL surcharge" 2.7 million dollars....probably another million a year or so in private donations etc and X is where they need to be.

Regardless, all im saying is that UCONN is on its hands and knees because they believe they can make more money in the big 12, and having an average/medicore football team. I agree with them.

[GoMuskies]

27 home games? That's more like 17 or 18, no?

[Xville]

27 home games? That's more like 17 or 18, no?

I’m an idiot. Yes. So 1.7 and then 2.7-3 respectively after some private donations. Nothing is transparent in nil but from what I gather 3 mil is about where we are at.

[xudash]

I believe there are a lot more than 20 currently that operate at a surplus, I believe it's probably more like 40-50. I understand what you mean by the line item though...even though for a school like Clemson they are operating athletically at a profit even taking into consideration that line item. (I do wonder what all that line item encompasses.)

As far as rev share/ direct compensation, I agree it will hurt a lot of schools. However, I'm sure that for the P4 and probably the big east, they will just add it to the cost of the tickets/donations and be just fine. In the end, as others have said here previously, we will be the ones paying for it, not the schools. However, at least we'll get some entertainment out of it i guess.

Take X for example...27 home games is that right? average 10k a game....10 dollar "NIL surcharge" 2.7 million dollars....probably another million a year or so in private donations etc and X is where they need to be.

Regardless, all im saying is that UCONN is on its hands and knees because they believe they can make more money in the big 12, and having an average/medicore football team. I agree with them.

I'm looking at it from the vantage point of GENERATED REVENUE and expenses - allocated revenue is really nothing more than subsidies coming from sources other than a sport that is directly generating revenue:

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/research/Finances/2021RES_D1-RevExpReport.pdf

I note here that the data are from 2020, but I imagine this analysis is still reasonably representative of the current situation.

Generated revenues exceeded expenses in 2020 at 20 institutions – five fewer than in 2019. The median net positive revenue for those institutions was $7.4 million.

NCAA institutions across all three divisions reported total athletics revenues of just over $18.7 billion dollars in 2020.

Of that amount, approximately $8.5 billion (45%) was allocated revenues from government and institution support and student fees; $10.2 billion (55%) was generated by the athletics departments. Think about that: almost half (45%) of revenue is from sources - allocated revenues - not directly tied to the on field / on court product.

I agree that the consumer will share in this fun moving forward.

UCONN is on its hands and knees, chasing more money. I get it. My contention is that they may not be sufficiently focusing on the expense side of the equation here as things settle out over time (lawsuits, revenue sharing, et al).

Making more money in the Big 12 requires not allowing expenses to exceed the amount of increased revenue. The outlook for expenses in this carnival is rather staggering. They are in a position where they have to go deep into CAPEX before they even can begin to see what they can accomplish with their football P/L. This is a reach any way you look at it.

If Yormark weren't such an aggressive, creative commissioner who happens to be focused on go-forward basketball value, this effort with UCONN wouldn't even be taking place. I'm shaking my head over this if I'm one of the 4-corner schools. They haven't even played their first game in this conference yet and they're having to deal with this.

[xudash]

Mike Gundy from OK State:

We’ve been competing against teams that pay a ton of money, and we’re not paying a ton of money,” Gundy said in a discussion with a small group of reporters following his first weekly press conference of the season. “We only paid $2.7 million last year, and there was 25 teams that paid over $15 million — we know that for a fact — and maybe more than that.

“In my opinion, you’re not gonna be able to compete anymore on a low budget. You just won’t be able to do it. You won’t have any players.”


The head football coach of arguably one of the best programs in that conference admitted that he is in hell.

[paulxu]

T Bone's foundation dropped $120 million on the school in June.
Maybe they can find some more.

[Xville]

Mike Gundy from OK State:

We’ve been competing against teams that pay a ton of money, and we’re not paying a ton of money,” Gundy said in a discussion with a small group of reporters following his first weekly press conference of the season. “We only paid $2.7 million last year, and there was 25 teams that paid over $15 million — we know that for a fact — and maybe more than that.

“In my opinion, you’re not gonna be able to compete anymore on a low budget. You just won’t be able to do it. You won’t have any players.”


The head football coach of arguably one of the best programs in that conference admitted that he is in hell.

While I think gundy is less full of shit than other college coaches, I still think he’s full of shit. Maybe he’s right, but the “for a fact” stuff is most likely complete nonsense. There is zero transparency with this stuff which I think is one of the major problems with it. How does he know for a fact? Because some agent told him what x,y,z player is getting? I’m sure they aren’t bumping that number up in any way. Insert eye roll.

I do think a lot of this needs to be regulated, but I’m a little sick of very very very rich coaches whining about it.

[xubrew]

Mike Gundy from OK State:

We’ve been competing against teams that pay a ton of money, and we’re not paying a ton of money,” Gundy said in a discussion with a small group of reporters following his first weekly press conference of the season. “We only paid $2.7 million last year, and there was 25 teams that paid over $15 million — we know that for a fact — and maybe more than that.

“In my opinion, you’re not gonna be able to compete anymore on a low budget. You just won’t be able to do it. You won’t have any players.”


The head football coach of arguably one of the best programs in that conference admitted that he is in hell.

Thank you! I needed this!

Mike Gundy is a funny guy!!!

[xubrew]

While I think gundy is less full of shit than other college coaches, I still think he’s full of shit. Maybe he’s right, but the “for a fact” stuff is most likely complete nonsense. There is zero transparency with this stuff which I think is one of the major problems with it. How does he know for a fact? Because some agent told him what x,y,z player is getting? I’m sure they aren’t bumping that number up in any way. Insert eye roll.

I do think a lot of this needs to be regulated, but I’m a little sick of very very very rich coaches whining about it.

Oklahoma State was one of the first schools, if not THE first, to have an NIL coordinator. I know who that person is. It's Barry Hinson, who's a former basketball coach. I don't want to overstate it and say we're great friends or anything, but I VERY much believe that the actua dollar amount is...well...MORE.

Now, to be fair, he may have actually been directed to say this in an attempt to stir up more potential donors.

And, this has nothing to do with UConn leaving. I don't want to sidetrack the thread. This just made me laugh on a morning when I really needed it! Nothing more. Carry on!

[xudash]

Let's say Gundy is full of it and that Okie State is paying more than $2.5 million. If he isn't full of crap about the "25 teams paid over $15 million" part of the quote, then the point stands, because I seriously doubt that OSU was able to payout anywhere close to that figure. The gap between 2.5 and 15 would have to be closed significantly in order for his point to be invalid. I still believe he has to be feeling the pressure of not being a part of the SEC or B1G, especially given that OU made it to the SEC, and that is with someone like T. Boone Pickens behind the school.

Oklahoma State can and will survive all of this. It's not like I believe that it will only be about B1G and SEC schools in the future. But what I do believe is that it will be very difficult to operate a highly successful football program in the future outside of B1G and SEC membership, given what we know now and given the revenue and expense picture for big time college football.

This is kind of a strictly American thing: pouring money into a sport in an attempt to protect/strengthen an academic institution's standing and appeal.

[Xavgrad08]

Thought this article from yesterday was interesting. "In addition, sources close to the situation tell CBS Sports that TV partner Fox is against the move". Doesn't sound like all the Big 12 institution's are aligned on this.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-presidents-pitched-on-potential-uconn-addition-but-lack-of-consensus-likely-to-prolong-decision/

[MHettel]

pretty clear to me that the B12 have embarked on a strategy of Quantity over Quality. They lost UT and Oklahoma, which are blue blood national brands and restocked with UC, BYU, South Florida (or is it Central Florida), Arizona, ASU, Utah, and Colorado.

I cant even tell you the premier football brand in the B12. Maybe OSU? Maybe Baylor? Or KState? Or Utah? Bottom line is that they clearly see "safety in numbers."

The odd part is that the ACC is widely viewed as more "at risk" than the B12 at this point. But strangely, that has more to do with the fact that the ACC actually HAS several National Brands (Clemson and FSU) that may want out.

The B12 is actually secure because they dont have anything that anyone else wants.

As it pertains to Uconn, there seems to be alot of reasons why people think a move to the B12 and the resulting financial commitment to football would be a horrible idea. There is alot of evidence that its going to be VERY expensive and possibly would prohibit them being competitive into the foreseeable future.

So the question is, dont you think they also know that? And if so, and they continue to move forward on the plan, then they must have a very bleak outlook on the alternative scenario where they DONT make this move.

For Uconn, this might not be about making the best move that works in their favor. This is more about picking the lesser of 2 evils. Maybe being in the B12 and facing those challenges is actually a BETTER outcome than staying in the Big East and running the risk of being locked out if Football splits off.....

Couple other random thoughts:

Pretty obvious that UConn is the initiator of the B12 talks. They arent just "listening" they are actively pursuing the deal. Sounds like they were vetted before and told their football program wasn't up to snuff. They went back to the drawing board, make a plan and then came back to B12 leadership to make their case. they are not being loyal to teh BE and would leave if they could. Dont lose sight of that.

Anyone wonder if the ACC could make a move on UConn? UConn is obviously signaling that they want to leave the BE, and if the B12 wont take them, what would stop the ACC from seeing an opportunity? I don't know the ACC bylaws and how many votes it would take to approve it, but I have to think it's a possibility. Hell, if Cal and Stanford can join the ACC, why couldnt UConn?

[JTG]

I think that UCONN is in panick mode looking for a new home is strictly football. It's either join the B12 or drop football. And apparently they they haven't come to the drop football conclusion yet. Yes ACC makes more sense, but the ACC situation is tenuous at best.

[paulxu]

But strangely, that has more to do with the fact that the ACC actually HAS several National Brands (Clemson and FSU) that may want out.

No "may" about it. (Although I'm not sure where they think they're going. SEC?)

[xudash]

UCONN is hellbent on making it to a "P4" conference. UCONN believes it must land there in order to be "safe" for the long term. UCONN football and college football in the Northeast are, shall we say less important in a region that loves pro sports and college hoops. Yet UCONN sees itself as a flagship state school - that is true - that SHOULD be a player in the FBS game - not exactly a shared perception nationally. It's almost a "get there at all costs" mentality that they're pursuing here.

XG08's CBS article points out the following:

There are also concerns that UConn is "one of the most heavily subsidized public FBS athletic departments in the country," according to Sportico.

Some Big 12 CEOs are also reluctant about the uncertainty of the House v. NCAA settlement, in which FBS schools will have the option of adding up to $23 million per year in revenue sharing to be distributed to players. While it is almost a certainty that Big Ten and SEC schools could afford that number, no Big 12 administrator who spoke to CBS Sports could assure that all 16 members could fully fund revenue sharing.

The subsidized athletic department point is the point I've been making about real athletic department revenue - the revenue actually generated by the sport being played - versus subsidies that come from student fees, state support, etc. UCONN is bleeding and they've been bleeding for a while now. On top of that, they're facing a massive capital expenditure to deal with their screwed up football facility - needs work and it's in the wrong place. If they stick with the existing stadium, then the number appears to be around $200 million. If they attempt to do it right and build on campus, then it's that number times two, at least.

It is as though UCONN is a 1974 Chevrolet Vega, already running at full throttle with pieces falling off, attempting to keep up with 16 Big 12 Honda Accords, all of which are getting boat raced by a bunch of Mercedes Benz's and BMW's from the B1G and the SEC. Worse yet, everyone knows that the speed limit is going up on the track, brought about by NIL, "reparations", and ultimately direct compensation.

- - - - - -

Imagine walking into a Credit Committee at a bank or an Investment Committee at a VC or PE group and getting pitched this:

1. Direct operating revenue is exceeded by direct operating expenses, by a large margin.

2. We have operated on that basis essentially since committing to D1A football.

3. We "balance" our books through institutional subsidies and donations, etc.

4. We have made capital investments in our football facilities (e.g. practice facility), but our Rentschler Field is located in East Hartford, Connecticut. It needs work, but we should consider that we are not providing a full game day experience to our fans by not having an on campus stadium in Storrs. Either way, we have a major capital investment to make in order to address a key lacking facility piece.

So, someone on one of these committees stops the presenter in his or her tracks and asks a few simple questions:

Committee guy: What is your average home attendance at your football games?

Presenter says: Well, less than 20k.

Committee Guy: What average attendance number do you need in order to break even at your stadium?

Presenter: 20,000, at least. That number (tickets scanned) is the state’s approximate break-even point for holding a game at Rentschler. When the number dips below 20,000, building operations must be supplemented.

Committee Guy: What were your best attendance numbers last year, and what was your overall average?

Presenter: The best scan numbers last season was 15,600 for Syracuse and 15,300 for Boston College. Overall, the Huskies attracted 72,505 to the stadium for an average of 12,084 over six home games.

Committee Guy: So, you're bleeding profusely financially speaking?

Presenter: Well, uh, um, we're looking to have a better year this year and really turn those numbers around.

Committee Guy: This Big 12 pitch appears to state that you would not become a football member of the Big 12 for 7 years, and that you'll be expected to invest for the opportunity to then be considered for football membership at that time, do I have that right?

Presenter: Basically, yes.

Committee Guy: So, you want to join a conference - a conference that lost its two marquee programs to the SEC - wherein you would not receive any conference football distributions any sooner than 7 years down the road, following massive CAPEX just to catch yourselves up on the facilities piece, where you would then be at least $30 million annually behind any SEC or B1G program for competition purposes, and where you haven't even fully realized the impact of NIL, player compensation and lawsuit "back pay" to former athletes on your already stressed athletic department?

Presenter: Pretty solid deal, huh! How much would you like to invest in UCONN football?

[xu82]

Do they have a small handful of loud people on the board or with some clout who just NEED a big football program and a giant conference? I wonder who the players are here, and who is driving this. And why.

[X-band '01]

Oklahoma State was one of the first schools, if not THE first, to have an NIL coordinator. I know who that person is. It's Barry Hinson, who's a former basketball coach. I don't want to overstate it and say we're great friends or anything, but I VERY much believe that the actua dollar amount is...well...MORE.

Now, to be fair, he may have actually been directed to say this in an attempt to stir up more potential donors.

And, this has nothing to do with UConn leaving. I don't want to sidetrack the thread. This just made me laugh on a morning when I really needed it! Nothing more. Carry on!

I hear he also had some legendary BBQ sauce when he was coaching at Southern Illinois:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiACYXllRew

[xubrew]

I hear he also had some legendary BBQ sauce when he was coaching at Southern Illinois:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiACYXllRew

College basketball needs Barry Hinson back! It really does!

"WE COULDN'T HIT A BULL IN THE BUTT WITH A BASE FIDDLE!!" I'm not even sure what that means! I just know it's awesome!!

[xu82]

College basketball needs Barry Hinson back! It really does!

"WE COULDN'T HIT A BULL IN THE BUTT WITH A BASE FIDDLE!!" I'm not even sure what that means! I just know it's awesome!!


Well, I think that just………says it all.

[MHettel]

UCONN is hellbent on making it to a "P4" conference. UCONN believes it must land there in order to be "safe" for the long term. UCONN football and college football in the Northeast are, shall we say less important in a region that loves pro sports and college hoops. Yet UCONN sees itself as a flagship state school - that is true - that SHOULD be a player in the FBS game - not exactly a shared perception nationally. It's almost a "get there at all costs" mentality that they're pursuing here.

XG08's CBS article points out the following:

There are also concerns that UConn is "one of the most heavily subsidized public FBS athletic departments in the country," according to Sportico.

Some Big 12 CEOs are also reluctant about the uncertainty of the House v. NCAA settlement, in which FBS schools will have the option of adding up to $23 million per year in revenue sharing to be distributed to players. While it is almost a certainty that Big Ten and SEC schools could afford that number, no Big 12 administrator who spoke to CBS Sports could assure that all 16 members could fully fund revenue sharing.

The subsidized athletic department point is the point I've been making about real athletic department revenue - the revenue actually generated by the sport being played - versus subsidies that come from student fees, state support, etc. UCONN is bleeding and they've been bleeding for a while now. On top of that, they're facing a massive capital expenditure to deal with their screwed up football facility - needs work and it's in the wrong place. If they stick with the existing stadium, then the number appears to be around $200 million. If they attempt to do it right and build on campus, then it's that number times two, at least.

It is as though UCONN is a 1974 Chevrolet Vega, already running at full throttle with pieces falling off, attempting to keep up with 16 Big 12 Honda Accords, all of which are getting boat raced by a bunch of Mercedes Benz's and BMW's from the B1G and the SEC. Worse yet, everyone knows that the speed limit is going up on the track, brought about by NIL, "reparations", and ultimately direct compensation.

- - - - - -

Imagine walking into a Credit Committee at a bank or an Investment Committee at a VC or PE group and getting pitched this:

1. Direct operating revenue is exceeded by direct operating expenses, by a large margin.

2. We have operated on that basis essentially since committing to D1A football.

3. We "balance" our books through institutional subsidies and donations, etc.

4. We have made capital investments in our football facilities (e.g. practice facility), but our Rentschler Field is located in East Hartford, Connecticut. It needs work, but we should consider that we are not providing a full game day experience to our fans by not having an on campus stadium in Storrs. Either way, we have a major capital investment to make in order to address a key lacking facility piece.

So, someone on one of these committees stops the presenter in his or her tracks and asks a few simple questions:

Committee guy: What is your average home attendance at your football games?

Presenter says: Well, less than 20k.

Committee Guy: What average attendance number do you need in order to break even at your stadium?

Presenter: 20,000, at least. That number (tickets scanned) is the state’s approximate break-even point for holding a game at Rentschler. When the number dips below 20,000, building operations must be supplemented.

Committee Guy: What were your best attendance numbers last year, and what was your overall average?

Presenter: The best scan numbers last season was 15,600 for Syracuse and 15,300 for Boston College. Overall, the Huskies attracted 72,505 to the stadium for an average of 12,084 over six home games.

Committee Guy: So, you're bleeding profusely financially speaking?

Presenter: Well, uh, um, we're looking to have a better year this year and really turn those numbers around.

Committee Guy: This Big 12 pitch appears to state that you would not become a football member of the Big 12 for 7 years, and that you'll be expected to invest for the opportunity to then be considered for football membership at that time, do I have that right?

Presenter: Basically, yes.

Committee Guy: So, you want to join a conference - a conference that lost its two marquee programs to the SEC - wherein you would not receive any conference football distributions any sooner than 7 years down the road, following massive CAPEX just to catch yourselves up on the facilities piece, where you would then be at least $30 million annually behind any SEC or B1G program for competition purposes, and where you haven't even fully realized the impact of NIL, player compensation and lawsuit "back pay" to former athletes on your already stressed athletic department?

Presenter: Pretty solid deal, huh! How much would you like to invest in UCONN football?

OR: we could stay in the Big East and hope for a miracle.

[Strange Brew]

OR: we could stay in the Big East and hope for a miracle.

Let ‘em go.

Bring in the Irish (sans football which is what they want) or the Zags. Remember UCONN was garbage for a few years and Nova ran the B-Ball world.

If they go to for football, well let them.

[MHettel]

Let ‘em go.

Bring in the Irish (sans football which is what they want) or the Zags. Remember UCONN was garbage for a few years and Nova ran the B-Ball world.

If they go to for football, well let them.

Really? with exactly what bait do we use to get ND? Or Gonzaga? This is a decade long discussion about how to expand the BE with valuable properties.

but we did nothing.

And UConn Fell into our lap, and they used us and now they want out, and suddenly we just grab ND and Gonzaga.

ok

[murray87]

38,000 seats in their stadium:

https://uconnhuskies.com/facilities/pratt-whitney-stadium-at-rentschler-field/2

Seems similar to Nippert but obviously not as old.

[bleedXblue]

UCONN is doing the smart thing. Leveraging their BB success into a bigger, better $$ deal. I think they'll simply pretend to be interested in football and play along for the dough.

Adding another good b-ball school will be easy. The tough decision will be who?

1. Zags (duh)
2. UD/VCU (easy and would jump at the chance)
3. St Mary's (dont like the logistics)
4. A bunch of other less attractive schools
5. ND (don't think they would stick around long term)

[drudy23]

It sounds like the Big East is only interested in schools that can expand the slice of the pie, and I don't think Dayton or VCU would do that. From a fan perspective, I'd be fine with it.

Gonzaga makes sense, obviously, from a basketball powerhouse perspective, but it's asking alot of their staff and players.

I wish Duke would just cut football and join the BE - football there is an afterthought anyway. Does Duke football make any money? The ACC is falling apart.

[xubrew]

If UConn leaves, I'm against replacing them with anyone. MAYBE Notre Dame if for some reason ND is interested, but I loved the league with it's previous ten team format. If we didn't feel like we needed an 11th before UConn joined (which NO ONE did), why would we suddenly feel like we need an 11th after they've left?

[GoMuskies]

Yeah, I'm not sure why there would be a need to replace UConn. If we want another bottom feeder, Notre Dame would be a nice add, sure.

[Xville]

I don’t understand the fascination of some people here with notre dame basketball. You all realize it’s different than their football team, right?

Gonzaga would be a big boost to the league if UConn left. Losing UConn would hurt the brand of the conference no matter how you spin it. Not having them before ( in the new big East) is different than getting them and then losing them.

[waggy]

I think ND gets a significant distribution from the ACC in addition to their NBC deal. They ain’t going anywhere.

[bleedXblue]

I don’t understand the fascination of some people here with notre dame basketball. You all realize it’s different than their football team, right?

Gonzaga would be a big boost to the league if UConn left. Losing UConn would hurt the brand of the conference no matter how you spin it. Not having them before ( in the new big East) is different than getting them and then losing them.

Totally agree on ND basketball

I'll pass and why I ranked them at the bottom of my list

[GoMuskies]

ND's other sports would be an amazing boost to the league...not that anyone cares much about those sports (at least in terms of deciding who to add to a conference).

[xubrew]

I don’t understand the fascination of some people here with notre dame basketball. You all realize it’s different than their football team, right?

Gonzaga would be a big boost to the league if UConn left. Losing UConn would hurt the brand of the conference no matter how you spin it. Not having them before ( in the new big East) is different than getting them and then losing them.

It isn't so much the basketball in and of itself as it is the brand. Wherever they go, they seem to be able to command a lot of revenue. And, while they don't have an overly rich tradition, they do at least take it seriously as an institution (for now) and Shrewsberry is a fairly decent coach, so there is some potential. Having said that....


I think ND gets a significant distribution from the ACC in addition to their NBC deal. They ain’t going anywhere.

This is absolutely correct. They have no interest in the Big East anyway and likely never will, so there's not much point to bringing it up other than to say the BE shouldn't really add an 11th member unless the one school that will never be interested decides they want to.

[bobbiemcgee]

Uconn needs to give 27 months notice and pay a 15 million $ exit fee.

[JTG]

I don’t understand the fascination of some people here with notre dame basketball. You all realize it’s different than their football team, right?

Gonzaga would be a big boost to the league if UConn left. Losing UConn would hurt the brand of the conference no matter how you spin it. Not having them before ( in the new big East) is different than getting them and then losing them.

Why ND?
Because FOX would do handstands with suitcases full of cash if they thought it would lead to the rights to a couple football games.

[Xville]

Why ND?
Because FOX would do handstands with suitcases full of cash if they thought it would lead to the rights to a couple football games.

That would probably go straight to nd. So again who cares?

If UConn leaves, Gonzaga is the play imo. Let them figure out the “challenges.” Not like all their sports need to go to the big East, just be a basketball only move.

[xubrew]

Uconn needs to give 27 months notice and pay a 15 million $ exit fee.

I say we tell them for $25 million they can leave right now.

[xubrew]

Why ND?
Because FOX would do handstands with suitcases full of cash if they thought it would lead to the rights to a couple football games.

It almost assuredly wouldn't. If anything, ND would try to leverage it so NBC got the rights to some Big East games.

[JTG]

It almost assuredly wouldn't. If anything, ND would try to leverage it so NBC got the rights to some Big East games.

Isn't Peacock, an NBC entity, going to get some of the BE games in the new media deal, anyway?

[MHettel]

It almost assuredly wouldn't. If anything, ND would try to leverage it so NBC got the rights to some Big East games.

Thats ridiculous. And makes no sense

[xubrew]

Thats ridiculous. And makes no sense

It IS ridiculous, but it DOES make sense. (at least to them). Notre Dame trying to pitch an offer where they would join the BE if NBC was able to purchase the rights to some of their home conference basketball games and give most or all of that money to ND is absolutely the kind of thing they would do.

[Xville]

It IS ridiculous, but it DOES make sense. (at least to them). Notre Dame trying to pitch an offer where they would join the BE if NBC was able to purchase the rights to some of their home conference basketball games and give most or all of that money to ND is absolutely the kind of thing they would do.

Exactly.

[xubrew]

If UConn leaves, I'm against replacing them with anyone. MAYBE Notre Dame if for some reason ND is interested, but I loved the league with it's previous ten team format. If we didn't feel like we needed an 11th before UConn joined (which NO ONE did), why would we suddenly feel like we need an 11th after they've left?

On the second thought....NOPE!

[MHettel]

I was always an advocate of expanding the Big East and still am. But is it too late? Will the BE leadership strategy to "stand pat" during the seismic shifts in the landscape turn out to have been the absolute WORST thing they could have done.

There are only so many "properties" and markets out there. The BE should have been moving West...all the way West to include Gonzaga, St. Mary's and a few midwest infills. This would have resulted in more TV content and a wider range of starting times for games. And a little more coast to coast interest. I know there will be some pushback that expansion would not be "accretive" to the current per school revenue......and that might just be a fact.....and also the ante to stay in the game with a wider view of what college sports will look like in the next decade or so.

I personally think there is a greater than 50% chance that around 2 or 3 conferences with about 64 schools will either completely break from the NCAA or use the revenue gap to distance themselves from everyone else within the NCAA. I'm talking about a complete system of Haves and Have Nots.

Do we think our cute little basketball only league will stand a chance in that situation?

Losing Uconn would suck. But what sucks MORE is that UConn is so willing to leave despite the obvious headwinds. I think their actions speak volumes about their outlook of their future in the Big East.

I mentioned earlier that the B12 embarked on a Quantity over Quality strategy where there is "safety in numbers." After they lost Texas and Oklahoma, they stood out as the most likely conference to get picked apart. But what did they do.....they freaking went out and grabbed 4 "middling" schools in BYU, UC, UCF and Houston to try to stabilize their membership. Once they got through the storm, the Pac 12 became the target and the B12 was able to grab 4 more teams out of that carnage. You can easily point to the football mediocrity of those 4 football programs (UofA, ASU, Colo, Utah), but you cant argue the benefit to the conference footprint. lets recap. The b12 this year has EIGHT TEAMS that werent in the league just 2 years ago, coming off the heels of losing their top 2 brands. Were any of these 8 teams "accretive" to their existing revenue? highly doubfull. But the first 4 teams they grabbed put them in a position to grab the next 4, and they are now suddenly the 3rd strongest conference left. Instead of being in the position that the PAC12 was in, they managed their way out of it and are now in a position of STRENGTH...through numbers.

Meanwhile the Big East sits there and does NOTHING while their Golden Goose openly puts itself on the market.

You dont think if UConn leaves that Nova wont be making some calls about a BBall only membership somewhere? Or Georgetown? Or St. Johns. You think the Philly market or DC or NYC would be valuable to the B12 or B10?

The B12 in Particular makes sense. At what point does UConn shift the strategy of getting into the B12 to telling them that they can deliver those programs to the b12? Who says that those 4 schools arent meeting RIGHT NOW to plan their escape? Why wouldnt they? the b12 would be 17 football schools and 20 for basketball. Create east and West divisions to minimize travel. Almost coast to coast footprint and it kind of makes sense. All timezones covered for maximum TV content. And, the basketball would just be insane.

I mean, I'm making this shit up. but am i? Is this all just non-sense and alarmist? Do we we really think a guy like Yormack couldnt pull this off? He talked to Gonzaga that offered no football at all. So hes open to basketball only additions.

And it all comes full circle to the BE having done NOTHING but sit on its hands while it could have been amassing "strength in numbers" making it a little harder for UConn to walk away....or if they did having anyone else follow them.

[MHettel]

It IS ridiculous, but it DOES make sense. (at least to them). Notre Dame trying to pitch an offer where they would join the BE if NBC was able to purchase the rights to some of their home conference basketball games and give most or all of that money to ND is absolutely the kind of thing they would do.

huh? and who would NBC "purchase" these games from? Fox? And NBC is going purchase the games and then give all the money to ND? So what does NBC stand to gain?

ND only wants to GAIN one thing. MONEY. they don't give 2 shits if it's coming from NBC or FOX. They get the MOST amount of money when they can leverage Fox vs NBC. Fox would jump at that ND football deal. Bringing them into the mix for basketball by joining the BE gives them an inside track to the football deal when the time comes.

NBC is playing defense. They wouldnt coax ND into joining the BE just so they could broadcast home ND basketball games and then give them all the money.

So, yeah. Ridiculous.

[waggy]

I can’t recall where, but thought I read there is talk of expanding the bball tournament And increasing the payouts for advancing. My view is that the BE already has the teams it needs even without UConn, it just needs a couple of them to play better.

[MHettel]

I can’t recall where, but thought I read there is talk of expanding the bball tournament And increasing the payouts for advancing. My view is that the BE already has the teams it needs even without UConn, it just needs a couple of them to play better.

Against the backdrop of the current college sports landscape, sure. But how confident are you that it will look anything like that in 10 years.

We need to envision a future....and stake out the best spot we can.

I'm actually reminded of a VERY simple irony. Just 2 years ago (or maybe less) Pac 12 commissioner Larry Scott presented a new media deal to the conference members that was very heavy on streaming content and pretty light on the traditional "network or cable" programming. That was the beginning of the end of the Pac 12 and Larry Scott lost his job.

And yet the BE just renewed its media deal with a heavy emphasis on non-traditional programming.....and it was lauded for it. Was Larry Scott ahead of his time??? That's how fast shit is moving.

[waggy]

We need to envision a future....

You mean like a basketball conference located in large media markets?

[paulxu]

Maybe we should get Gonzaga to form a BW conference of BB teams on the West coast, and put it with the BE.
Would be the Big East/West.
Then they could broadcast throughout prime time in all time zones.

[Xville]

Why would nd split football time with other football programs on fox when they have nbc basically all to themselves? That makes zero sense. No way fox would outbid nbc anyways

[MHettel]

Why would nd split football time with other football programs on fox when they have nbc basically all to themselves? That makes zero sense. No way fox would outbid nbc anyways

Well, since Fox is broadcasting their games at the exact same time that an ND game is on TV I assume it impacts the ratings they get. And vice versa.

When an ND game is on, you basically have one on Fox and ESPN as well. 3 games at once. Remove one game by having ND ON FOX and suddenly there are a bunch more eyeballs on those other 2 games.

[MHettel]

Maybe we should get Gonzaga to form a BW conference of BB teams on the West coast, and put it with the BE.
Would be the Big East/West.
Then they could broadcast throughout prime time in all time zones.

NOW you're talking. And by the way, maybe games all week as well. The BE is mostly Wednesdays and Saturdays. maybe one game per week on a Friday or Sunday. Have 2 teams from the West playing in the East each week (Tuesday / Thursday) and 2 Eastern teams out West each week (Monday Wednesday). If you took a long road trip, you get 2 days off and then a home game next. LOTS of TV slots.

[xubrew]

huh? and who would NBC "purchase" these games from? Fox? And NBC is going purchase the games and then give all the money to ND? So what does NBC stand to gain?

ND only wants to GAIN one thing. MONEY. they don't give 2 shits if it's coming from NBC or FOX. They get the MOST amount of money when they can leverage Fox vs NBC. Fox would jump at that ND football deal. Bringing them into the mix for basketball by joining the BE gives them an inside track to the football deal when the time comes.

NBC is playing defense. They wouldnt coax ND into joining the BE just so they could broadcast home ND basketball games and then give them all the money.

So, yeah. Ridiculous.

I never said they would. I said that ND joining the Big East would not lead to Fox getting the rights to "a couple of ND football games," and it wouldn't. ND signed their new deal a little over a year ago, and it's for about $50 million a year. Fox isn't getting any near Notre Dame Football.

I was really just making the point that Fox getting the rights to any of Notre Dame Football would never happen. And it won't. To further that point, I said that if anything ND would leverage it so NBC got the rights to some of their Big East basketball games. And, yes, for this to happen NBC would have to acquire or purchase the rights, and the money that was used to do that would then be paid to ND. I can't imagine Fox or the Big East would want to do this, but in a hypothetical world where ND would actually be looking to join the Big East, they would want more money.

Notre Dame is not joining the Big East. The size of their football media deal just recently doubled, and on top of that they're getting $17 million a year from the ACC. The Big East doesn't have $17 million a year to give to ND, and even if they did it wouldn't be worth it to give them that much. The reason the ACC does it is because of the scheduling agreement where they play at least a few ACC teams on the road every year. That's really it. Notre Dame recently went to Louisville. Notre Dame went to Duke. Just getting a game or two like that every year is worth $17 million to the ACC. Well, I suppose it's worth about $15.5 million and the basketball is worth about $1.5 million, but either way they're getting $17 million from the ACC and that's more than the Big East ever could, or would, or should give them. So, it's all moot anyway.

[Xville]

Well, since Fox is broadcasting their games at the exact same time that an ND game is on TV I assume it impacts the ratings they get. And vice versa.

When an ND game is on, you basically have one on Fox and ESPN as well. 3 games at once. Remove one game by having ND ON FOX and suddenly there are a bunch more eyeballs on those other 2 games.

My point is that nbc has nd all to themselves, and nd has nbc all to themselves. That’s why nd and nbc has the deal they have. Fox wouldn’t get close to what nbc gives nd.

[MHettel]

I never said they would. I said that ND joining the Big East would not lead to Fox getting the rights to "a couple of ND football games," and it wouldn't. ND signed their new deal a little over a year ago, and it's for about $50 million a year. Fox isn't getting any near Notre Dame Football.

I was really just making the point that Fox getting the rights to any of Notre Dame Football would never happen. And it won't. To further that point, I said that if anything ND would leverage it so NBC got the rights to some of their Big East basketball games. And, yes, for this to happen NBC would have to acquire or purchase the rights, and the money that was used to do that would then be paid to ND. I can't imagine Fox or the Big East would want to do this, but in a hypothetical world where ND would actually be looking to join the Big East, they would want more money.

Notre Dame is not joining the Big East. The size of their football media deal just recently doubled, and on top of that they're getting $17 million a year from the ACC. The Big East doesn't have $17 million a year to give to ND, and even if they did it wouldn't be worth it to give them that much. The reason the ACC does it is because of the scheduling agreement where they play at least a few ACC teams on the road every year. That's really it. Notre Dame recently went to Louisville. Notre Dame went to Duke. Just getting a game or two like that every year is worth $17 million to the ACC. Well, I suppose it's worth about $15.5 million and the basketball is worth about $1.5 million, but either way they're getting $17 million from the ACC and that's more than the Big East ever could, or would, or should give them. So, it's all moot anyway.

if you took ND out of the ACC they would forefeit 17M. Ok. I wont debate that.

But they would get 4 more games on their schedule they can fill. bet thats worth more than 17M....

[Xville]

NOW you're talking. And by the way, maybe games all week as well. The BE is mostly Wednesdays and Saturdays. maybe one game per week on a Friday or Sunday. Have 2 teams from the West playing in the East each week (Tuesday / Thursday) and 2 Eastern teams out West each week (Monday Wednesday). If you took a long road trip, you get 2 days off and then a home game next. LOTS of TV slots.

I like this too. I love the double round robin because of its purity. However, I think in this new world, the big East is going to have to do something. Maybe I’m wrong but sitting idly by seems like a death wish. My two cents.


Of course this comes down to that ole benefits/cost thing but if it’s just for basketball, and not the sports that make zero money, I’d have to think the benefits would outweigh the costs….

Grab Gonzaga, st Mary’s, maybe slu and a couple other bb only schools and let’s rock.

[xubrew]

if you took ND out of the ACC they would forefeit 17M. Ok. I wont debate that.

But they would get 4 more games on their schedule they can fill. bet thats worth more than 17M....

Perhaps. And if they do decide to leave the ACC and shop around then MAYBE the Big East should court them, but I don't think we should consider it if they want something special or want something more than what everyone else is getting. They are a tremendous football brand, but in basketball they don't bring anything to the Big East that isn't already there. It's one thing for Gonzaga to lean on the WCC and get more than everyone else, and it makes sense that the WCC would let them have it. But it doesn't make any sense at all for the BE to do something like that to lure ND in.

[JTG]

I like this too. I love the double round robin because of its purity. However, I think in this new world, the big East is going to have to do something. Maybe I’m wrong but sitting idly by seems like a death wish. My two cents.


Of course this comes down to that ole benefits/cost thing but if it’s just for basketball, and not the sports that make zero money, I’d have to think the benefits would outweigh the costs….

Grab Gonzaga, st Mary’s, maybe slu and a couple other bb only schools and let’s rock.

I seriously worry about Yormack. The guy is a predatory vulture. I bet he's already planning an ACC raid. And I shiver at the thought he has his mind on ravishing the BE. The BE seriously DOES need to be pro active with expansion. Or for X it might end up being welcome back to the A10. The round robin is nice but it's NOT nice if we're playing a bunch of shit schools because the BE was picked apart. Yormark is a very scary bastard.

[waggy]

He’s the thing, bball schools that would leave the BE are not going to get a full share…

[X-band '01]

Nothing is really going to happen to the ACC unless they're somehow able to weasel their way out of the Grant of Rights. Not sure where FSU and Clemson go if they do manage to finally get around that.

[MHettel]

I like this too. I love the double round robin because of its purity. However, I think in this new world, the big East is going to have to do something. Maybe I’m wrong but sitting idly by seems like a death wish. My two cents.


Of course this comes down to that ole benefits/cost thing but if it’s just for basketball, and not the sports that make zero money, I’d have to think the benefits would outweigh the costs….

Grab Gonzaga, st Mary’s, maybe slu and a couple other bb only schools and let’s rock.

those 3 schools are a start. Gonzaga is obivously ready. St. Marys could hang in the BE right now (middle of the pack). Getting an opportunity like moving to a conference like the BE would be a huge boost to almost any program. That "boost" can lead to a commitment and improvement in the facilities, coaching staff, and ultimately talent level of some of these schools.

Take for instance Seattle University. Not a Basketball powerhouse by any means. But the school is similar to the BE profile and the Market is strategic. Moving into a top league would result in immediate improvements. Kind of a cause and effect (hey it worked for Fordham.....uhhh nevermind).

I think 16 teams would be ideal. Zags, SMU, SLU, Wichita State, and one other (not necessarily Seattle U).

2 8 team divisions. Round robin in the division (14 games) and 1 game vs the other division teams (8 games). 22 games, just like today.

Each team would take 2 road trips a year to the other coast and play 2 games in 3 days (like I described).

Biggest issue of contention would be which existing BE teams would have to be shifted to the Western division. Feels like Creighton, Marquette and Depaul to me.


Edit: AND the fact that XVILLE actually agrees with me about something makes this entire idea obviously bulletproof. lets do this!

[JTG]

I don't think football schools is a good idea. And I would say Creighton, Depaul and Butler go west.

[GoMuskies]

Thanks, I hate it.

Gonzaga is additive. If you have to find one more western school to make Gonzaga happen, fine. St. Mary's or Seattle can come, too. Beyond that, I have zero interest in what's out there. And now I see that Moraga is 866 miles from Spokane, so you better make it Seattle.

[paulxu]

NBC pays big bucks for ND football, and assumedly there are a few million Catholics (subway alumni) watch these games.
Do they all then go back and watch some other basketball team? Don't some of them watch ND?

[xubrew]

NBC pays big bucks for ND football, and assumedly there are a few million Catholics (subway alumni) watch these games.
Do they all then go back and watch some other basketball team? Don't some of them watch ND?

Most people who watch and/or root for Notre Dame’s football team are not students or alumni. There are a lot of NDFB/IUBB fans around the state of Indiana. NDFB also appeals to Catholics all over the country. It’s a different animal. ND’s basketball team’s fanbase is way more typical. It’s 90% made up of people who actually did go to the school.

[Xavier]

Looks like Big 12 passed on UConn (for now) again.

[muskiefan82]

Might be the smartest thing the B12 has done in a while

[GoMuskies]

The Big XII leaders weren't familiar with the UConn product and decided to tune in their game at Maryland last weekend. Shortly thereafter, discussions stalled.

That's my fan fic anyway.

[94GRAD]

Twitter is on fire right now making fun of them

[GoMuskies]

Good, UConn could use a dose of humilty. Hopefully Sean and Co. are able to give them an extra dose on the hardwood this year.

[xubrew]

The Big XII leaders weren't familiar with the UConn product and decided to tune in their game at Maryland last weekend. Shortly thereafter, discussions stalled.

That's my fan fic anyway.

I believe this is correct.

[Final4]

The Big XII leaders weren't familiar with the UConn product and decided to tune in their game at Maryland last weekend. Shortly thereafter, discussions stalled.

That's my fan fic anyway.

I watched some of that UCONN/Maryland game last weekend. Thank goodness UCONN made the commitment and went all in on football otherwise that game could have been ugly.

[murray87]

Hold up on that expansion wise gentlemen.

[MHettel]

Hold up on that expansion wise gentlemen.

Really?

I mean UConn isn’t going to the B12, but that doesn’t mean they don’t want to leave.

I think we need to see if we can make the BE more attractive than it already is. Gotta make it clear that they would really be walking away from something unique. Obviously we aren’t there yet

[bjf123]

Really?

I mean UConn isn’t going to the B12, but that doesn’t mean they don’t want to leave.

I think we need to see if we can make the BE more attractive than it already is. Gotta make it clear that they would really be walking away from something unique. Obviously we aren’t there yet

Can the BE ever really compete with Power 4/5 football money?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JTG]

Really?

I mean UConn isn’t going to the B12, but that doesn’t mean they don’t want to leave.

I think we need to see if we can make the BE more attractive than it already is. Gotta make it clear that they would really be walking away from something unique. Obviously we aren’t there yet
UConn has a huge problem as long as they have crappy football, and championship basketball. Find a football only home for football, somehow get their football good, which appears impossible, or drop football. My guess is they sniff around the ACC before they come to the logical conclusion and drop football. How does the BE make themselves more attractive? They can't. Like I said UConn's issue is a home for football. Nothing the BE can do about that.

[GoMuskies]

UConn is up 42-7 on Merrimack. Call the Big XII!

[xudash]

UConn is up 42-7 on Merrimack. Call the Big XII!

Their football fan base would probably taking you seriously.

[JTG]

UConn is up 42-7 on Merrimack. Call the Big XII!

They played against a Civil War battleship?

[X-band '01]

It could best be described as two ships passing in the night.

[xubrew]

From what I've heard the Big 12's vote was 11-5 to include UConn. It needed to be 12-4. Take that for what it's worth.

Oh well. They can try again in five years or so. And...I'm sure they will.

[MADXSTER]

But I hear that UConn's footbal team is getting better

[Section 200]

From what I've heard the Big 12's vote was 11-5 to include UConn. It needed to be 12-4. Take that for what it's worth.

Oh well. They can try again in five years or so. And...I'm sure they will.

Curious where you hear this? Seems like something that the Big 12 would not want discussed?

[GoMuskies]

Almost beat football powerhouse Duke. Almost.

[xubrew]

Curious where you hear this? Seems like something that the Big 12 would not want discussed?

UConn is just one of those schools that I kind of hear things about. And, you're probably right about the Big 12 not wanting it discussed. While it wasn't really kept a secret, it also wasn't really made public either. But since I don't much like the Big 12 I don't feel too bad about saying that I heard the NO votes were TCU, Baylor, Arizona, and Utah (and one other that I don't know). I didn't even think they'd let Arizona vote since they're so new, and I don't quite get why any of the not want UConn since all four seem to value basketball. TCU is particularly odd. Like...why??? I can see not chomping at the bit to get them, but I can't see why they'd be against it either. But...whatever.

[xubrew]

Almost beat football powerhouse Duke. Almost.

They would have sold more tickets had they just let the basketball teams play.

[nickgyp]

It simply amazes me that most fans seem to focus in on conference/media payouts without considering the rest of the income statement that comes along with these athletic businesses ...... er, athletic programs for student-athletes. I go back to the point that there are truly only about 20 of these large all-sports athletic departments that operate on a net surplus basis.

THE SIMPLE FACT IS THAT IF YOU WANT TO PLAY "COLLEGE FOOTBALL" AT THIS LEVEL, YOUR EXPENSES ARE GOING TO GO UP, AND RATHER DRAMATICALLY. I'm talking about operating expenses here. Capital expenditures/improvements are an entirely different matter, and can really send an athletic department into "orbit."

Think about UC's new indoor football practice facility. About $140 million. I have no doubt that it will be a nice facility. What I don't get is that it is parked close to a stadium that only seats about 40,000 people. Pumping money like that into a program that has such game day revenue limitations kind of baffles my mind. Of course, they believe they HAVE TO DO IT. They have to stay in the game, because their academic world will come to an end if they can't play football well. They'll continue to pump on student fees to help fund the department, and they'll continue to pump on alumni donations to help with NIL, etc.

But what happens when it goes into full employment / revenue sharing mode? We'll have to put up with that, too, but without the ball and chain of non-SEC/B1G football around our necks.

Even a university that has grown to 41k students only has so much fundraising bandwidth. $70 million into Nippert. $140 million into the new practice facility. 5.3 Arena received its lipstick on a pig renovation. I wonder where Wes Miller's practice facility for hoops stands at this point.

Then you have UCONN, which is facing a $175 million facelift to their crappy off campus stadium, or a new build on campus that will be a hell of a lot more than that.

All of this in order to where a badge on your chest that says you are a member of the distant 3rd best conference in the United States. Nice.

But they have to do it. You know, because of the REVENUE.

Just thinking out loud after reviewing recent comments on this board including what to do with UCONN, the impact of NIL monies on ticket prices, and the alternatives such as latching on to lower division sports at other schools as affordable collegiate entertainment. I have proposed for consideration on another board the idea of UCONN football going to non-scholarship with the possibility of a Xavier team along with Villanova, Butler and Georgetown playing in a Pioneer Football League Big East Division. I threw this out for some discussion with a few dismissive comments implying that I was beating a dead horse and yet others thinking it would never happen.

I can stand the dismissiveness of the comments by others but the recent discussions on this forum about the aforementioned topics seems that honest comments about such a proposal will be vetted here.

First: Xavier’s concerns for declining enrollments (with fewer males) will continue as the pool of eligible applicants declines.

Second: Xavier ostensibly has non-scholarship football on the back burner.

Third: UCONN is looking for a home for its football team.

Fourth: The Big East wants to keep UCONN in the fold.

Fifth: Non-scholarship football doesn’t break the bank.

Sixth: UCONN played FCS school Merrimack. Playing in a FCS league allows for both playing established rivals and other FBS schools which may placate UCONN football fans.

Seventh: Power 5 football schools will continue to amass monies distancing themselves from the Huskie program.

Eighth: It would be a financially sane(r) for the other Huskie athletic teams.

As I said, just an idea. May or may not be as far-fetched as these other musical-chair league realignments. Most college football teams will play at levels that are not power 5. Could UCONN live with that?

Fire away!

[Xville]

UConn wants to make money with their football team, they can’t do that in non scholarship football. They will continue forward to try to
Make football work there financially, and I think sometime in the future, they will be successful doing so.

[xubrew]

Just thinking out loud after reviewing recent comments on this board including what to do with UCONN, the impact of NIL monies on ticket prices, and the alternatives such as latching on to lower division sports at other schools as affordable collegiate entertainment. I have proposed for consideration on another board the idea of UCONN football going to non-scholarship with the possibility of a Xavier team along with Villanova, Butler and Georgetown playing in a Pioneer Football League Big East Division. I threw this out for some discussion with a few dismissive comments implying that I was beating a dead horse and yet others thinking it would never happen.

I can stand the dismissiveness of the comments by others but the recent discussions on this forum about the aforementioned topics seems that honest comments about such a proposal will be vetted here.

First: Xavier’s concerns for declining enrollments (with fewer males) will continue as the pool of eligible applicants declines.

Second: Xavier ostensibly has non-scholarship football on the back burner.

Third: UCONN is looking for a home for its football team.

Fourth: The Big East wants to keep UCONN in the fold.

Fifth: Non-scholarship football doesn’t break the bank.

Sixth: UCONN played FCS school Merrimack. Playing in a FCS league allows for both playing established rivals and other FBS schools which may placate UCONN football fans.

Seventh: Power 5 football schools will continue to amass monies distancing themselves from the Huskie program.

Eighth: It would be a financially sane(r) for the other Huskie athletic teams.

As I said, just an idea. May or may not be as far-fetched as these other musical-chair league realignments. Most college football teams will play at levels that are not power 5. Could UCONN live with that?

Fire away!

I think this assessment makes sense as far as what the positive aspects of it would be, but just because it makes sense does not mean it is a probable outcome.

I don't think UConn intends to drop it's football program outside of the FBS any time soon. There may be a day where they are forced to do it, but as of now they want to keep it going. They were one vote away from being invited to the Big 12 as full members, and they will likely try again at some point in the foreseeable future. It's also possible (as funny as this is) that they will become football only members of the Pac 12.

I don't think Villanova has any intentions at all of dropping scholarship football.

There is a better chance that Georgetown would look to move to the PFL than there is that Nova would do it, but I still don't think they have any intentions of doing it. I think they like being in the Patriot League. In fact, I think they REALLY like being in the Patriot League.

And, as for Xavier, I was under the impression they had all but told the PFL Office (which isn't really much of an office) that they were starting up football and intended to join the conference, and that it would start up within a couple of years. I thought the president was practically screaming for it. But now...silence! I guess they decided not to do it???

So, it doesn't look to me that any of the schools you've mentioned here has any real interest in moving in that direction. I'm not saying it wouldn't work out if they were to do it. I'm just saying it doesn't look like they will. If UConn thinks they can some day soon get into the Big 12 (and I completely understand why they would think that) then I understand them thinking that's a much better option than the PFL. I can totally understand Georgetown not wanting to leave the Patriot League and Nova not wanting to cut scholarships.

I think Xavier should start football and join the PFL whether those other three come in with them or not. That's all been discussed, so i won't rehash it. But, having said that, it doesn't look like they're going to. I was almost certain that it would happen and was getting kind of excited about it, but then it all seemed to disappear. It's their choice, and I guess they've made it.

[GoMuskies]

I have literally no interest in non-scholarship football at Xavier and wouldn't pay much attention to it if we had it, but if Xavier thinks they can grow male enrollment by starting a team and it in no way strains the resources of the athletics department, then have at it.

[Jehoya]

I'm all for Pioneer league Xavier non-scholarship football, I wish it was happening sooner rather than later

[xubrew]

I'm all for Pioneer league Xavier non-scholarship football, I wish it was happening sooner rather than later

About two years ago I would have said it was almost assuredly happening and would be here for either the 2024 or 2025 season. Meaning...now.

But, that obviously didn't happen. I don't think it's going to happen any time soon. Maybe later. MUCH much later.

[MHettel]

I dont see how it could make any sense at all for XU to add football. Especially non-scholarship football.

First of all, there are FCS leagues that DO offer scholarships. In fact, they all do expect the Pioneer league. So I just dont understand how you're gonna find any decent players who would have alternatives to play somewhere WITH a scholarship. It just seems like we'd be left with a roster full of the lowest level players out there.

And I dont know how it COULDNT negatively impact the overall Sports budget. Some teams have over 100 players. We probably wouldnt have that, but maybe 75? How much equipment and incremental faculties would be needed? How big would the coaching staff be? probably 6 or 7 right? And teh imcremental Administrative people needed (compliance, etc). The cost of a field is gonna be huge, and you get maybe 6 games a year of ticket revenue.

It just doesn't make any sense.

Total loser in my mind.

[GoMuskies]

It just seems like we'd be left with a roster full of the lowest level players out there.


It doesn't just seem that way. That's what Pioneer League football is. It's a continuation of high school football for guys who were pretty good in high school. I'm sure a blast for those guys, but it doesn't sound very interesting to watch if you're not related to, dating, or good buddies with one of the players.

[xubrew]

So I just dont understand how you're gonna find any decent players who would have alternatives to play somewhere WITH a scholarship. It just seems like we'd be left with a roster full of the lowest level players out there.

You're really not wrong here. The PFL is, in a lot of ways, practically D3. It's just technically D1. It's schools that want football for various reasons, and would probably play at the D3 level if the rules permitted them to, but can't because they are D1 in basketball. That's a rule. If you're D1 in basketball, you have to be D1 in everything. So, the PFL is sort of an end-around (no pun intended). It's schools that want to play without scholarships that banded together so they could play each other.


And I dont know how it COULDNT negatively impact the overall Sports budget

Again, it's practically D3. I think every single PFL school but maybe one has their entire football budget supplemented by the school. I don't think any of them have a budget that's higher than $1.5 million (although San Diego might). That's not really money that's coming out of the athletic department's budget. That's additional money that the school is giving to the athletic department so it can pay for football. In other words, if the football team wasn't there, then they wouldn't be receiving that money from the school to pay for it. So, it costs the athletic department nothing.

Now, why would schools do this?? Again...D3. It's private schools who rely on enrollment and tuition. If football will attract players, cheerleaders, and marching band members to a private school, and those players, cheerleaders, and band members would not be there paying full tuition if it weren't for football, then football is very much worth the cost to the school. They're probably making more than $4 million off of them from tuition, so they'll gladly give the athletic department $1 million for football.

That's why.

But, Xavier decided not to do it. And, that's their choice. I guess they agree with you.

[xubrew]

It doesn't just seem that way. That's what Pioneer League football is. It's a continuation of high school football for guys who were pretty good in high school. I'm sure a blast for those guys, but it doesn't sound very interesting to watch if you're not related to, dating, or good buddies with one of the players.

I can't really argue with this.

The vast majority of D3 schools are small private colleges and universities. The vast majority of them will tell you straight out that without football they wouldn't have enough tuition paying students to keep the doors open. Obviously Xavier is not in that category. They certainly don't need football. And, if they were to start up football, the kind of football they'd be getting would be exactly the kind of football you described.

And, I guess my response to this is....yeah, so, and the problem is???

But, it's pretty apparent now that it's not happening. And, it doesn't need to. I just thought it would be kind of fun if it did, and given that the program was going to be PFL non-scholarship I didn't think it was going to siphon off of anything else in athletics.

[nickgyp]

Interesting comments and I appreciate the opinions as they are all earnest insights. FCS non-scholarship teams in the PFL do play scholarship programs but with a distinct disadvantage which usually shows. It was just a thought. Xavier’s apparent lack of enthusiasm for football as well as UCONN’s desire for big time football are real but the harsh realities of declining enrollments and burgeoning athletic budgets remain.

Now for my next proposal: Gonzaga and St. Mary’s add football along with Xavier and join Notre Dame and Boston College in a power 5 conference and play home and home games each year….

Just kidding.