State of Xavier Enrollment - Ties to Basketball

[drudy23]

Is this cause for concern or expected because of the investments made in the recent years? Does an operating deficit have any ties to potential NIL dollars (I don't think so, but who knows)?

The enrollment decline seems pretty significant.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2024/08/19/xavier-university-budget-deficit-entering-2024-school-year/74720620007/

[Xville]

Is this cause for concern or expected because of the investments made in the recent years? Does an operating deficit have any ties to potential NIL dollars (I don't think so, but who knows)?

The enrollment decline seems pretty significant.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2024/08/19/xavier-university-budget-deficit-entering-2024-school-year/74720620007/

Behind a pay wall, could you provide just a quick gist of the article?

I can speak to declining enrollment not being a surprise—-college is ridiculously expensive, and for a large amount of majors, the roi just isn’t there especially if you have to take out predatory loans that make cash advance places blush.

[drudy23]

X running at about a $17M deficit which could balloon to $25M next year. Expenses growing higher than revenue. Enrollment at 10-year low at 5,600 (down from 7,100). Employees feeling pinched with budgets, fearing layoffs. Think President pay is too high (but compared to market and other Jesuit President's, it's actually pretty low).

[Xville]

X running at about a $17M deficit which could balloon to $25M next year. Expenses growing higher than revenue. Enrollment at 10-year low at 5,600 (down from 7,100). Employees feeling pinched with budgets, fearing layoffs. Think President pay is too high (but compared to market and other Jesuit President's, it's actually pretty low).

Thanks. I don't know the financial particulars or breakdown, but here is what I see from an anecdotal point of view in the twenty years since I have been gone:

Xavier has built (literally) itself into a debt-ridden business that is not sustainable. Maybe stop building palaces all over campus, and control your expenses better.

If anyone is shocked by this, then they haven't been paying attention to what has been going on in "higher education" for the last 25 years. Tuition has skyrocketed, and it has not kept up with the annual salaries coming out of school. Unless your child receives a pretty large scholarship and/or financial aid, a large amount of the middle class has simply been priced out of 4 year colleges. And, as I said, unless you know exactly what you want to do for the rest of your life at 18 years old, and in a major that offers a very high income potential, the ROI isn't there.

My kids are about to turn 8 years old, and we have been saving for college since birth, but we will be having some very long and serious discussions with both children about college unless they get significant or full ride academic/sports scholarships.

[drudy23]

I was just assuming the expenses they've taken from building out a Med program would come back with increased enrollment in the coming years? Or does that just make things worse for those not pursuing the MD route (which to your point, does provide the ROI).

10-15 years ago this probably would have been gold - now at the peak of college expense, it may backfire and throw them into a very bad financial scenario. Don't touch those basketball budgets!

[GoMuskies]

I love Xavier. Spend way too much of my life on this board. I would never in a million years send any of my kids to Xavier at full freight. Probably not even with a half tuition scholarship.

And it's nothing against Xavier. There just aren't very many private universities (or out of state public ones) that are worth what they cost now. The kids need to get a significant scholarship or choose from the many fine public universities (and community colleges) Kansas has to offer (or Oklahoma State, which provides in-state reciprocity).

[Xville]

One other point...if your child has any inclination to do a trade/service career, that to me makes the most sense right now. Out of high school, become a electrician, construction, plumbing apprentice...be a master in that particular trade within 5-10 years...take a few business classes at the local community college to understand how to run a business, and you're going to make a hell of a living with zero loans/debt.

Like Go, I love Xavier, but 20 years ago I think full freight was in the 20s..ten years ago it was in the 40s...its now realistically in the 60s. Now, very few people come close to paying that, but even with significant discounts, scholarships the price is baloney

[noteggs]

Not a big fan of Axios, but they make some good points on what’s expected for future college enrollment.

https://www.axios.com/2024/07/03/education-enrollment-cliff-schools

[bleedXblue]

You can attend X for around 30K with room and board. That's about 5-7K higher than UC for comparison. It isnt the money........

[Xville]

You can attend X for around 30K with room and board. That's about 5-7K higher than UC for comparison. It isnt the money........

Based on what? 30k is a ton of money to most people, and if you're taking out loans for that amount...I saw average student is 36,700---4 years that's almost 150k not counting other expenses while attending. UC in-state is 13k; 27 out of state.

I don't think Xavier is the only school in the country having enrollment issues. I think money is a big part of it---it's not all of it, but it's certainly a challenge for most Americans---especially right now.

To Noteggs articles' point...birthrate drop could have something to do with it as well.

With all of that said, i'm not sure enrollment is really the big issue at Xavier when it comes to them running in the red. Could be wrong, but i think it goes deeper than that. I have heard that Father Graham and his administration made quite a few poor financial decisions on top of what has been going on with higher education over the last 20-25 years.

[MHettel]

You can attend X for around 30K with room and board. That's about 5-7K higher than UC for comparison. It isnt the money........

No.

in 2022 my daughter was awarded 96K in scholarship money from XU. Although I was pushing it and was willing to pay the extra amount, she ended up at Boise State which costs me about 28K per year (total tuition, room, & board AFTER a 12K scholarship that basically gets the tuition to "in-state" levels).

So even after 24K per year in scholarship money from XU, I was still looking at around 35K a year out of pocket. If you arent getting any scholarship money is almost a quarter of a million bucks to go to XU. thats insane.

[Masterofreality]

One other troubling aspect is that Xavier’s Endowment, while improved, is 3rd lowest in the Big East. Only Providence and Butler are lower.
All other schools have basically 4 times the endowment amount of Xavier. Creighton is the next lowest at 750 million.
This medical school is a true “All In” proposition. And if folks want to continue any basketball success, guess what?
Reach in the wallet and give, because the school is needing to have alligator arms right now for sports.
Probably time to raise the ticket prices too- after Sean reaches a Final Four this year.

[Xville]

I certainly understand how the medical school will bring some money back to Xavier. However, I am interested to know what X believes the ROI will be 5-10-15 years down the road for that school? Of course there are tuition dollars, and hopefully those doctors give back to the school. While doctors make good money, you aren't talking big business money or big endowment money. You're talking comfortable lifestyle money.

[drudy23]

One other troubling aspect is that Xavier’s Endowment, while improved, is 3rd lowest in the Big East. Only Providence and Butler are lower.
All other schools have basically 4 times the endowment amount of Xavier. Creighton is the next lowest at 750 million.
This medical school is a true “All In” proposition. And if folks want to continue any basketball success, guess what?
Reach in the wallet and give, because the school is needing to have alligator arms right now for sports.
Probably time to raise the ticket prices too- after Sean reaches a Final Four this year.

I was actually pleasantly surprised by the ticket prices this year. I was expecting much higher.

[xudash]

I'll try to keep this as brief as possible so that perhaps the salient points will stick:

Higher education is going through a demographic tsunami right now - the available pool of applicants is lower. It's been a problem for a few years now already. It will continue to be that way for a while. Every university in the nation is experiencing this reality.

Even so, Xavier purposefully reduced the number of its freshmen class this year in order to yield more qualified students - both financially and academically. RETENTION METRICS are a big thing in performance metrics in higher education, and bringing in students who can't handle the place academically and/or financially isn't fair to those students and certainly doesn't help the University.

You may want to consider that there may be a few disgruntled faculty members who believe their jobs are at risk and so they pop off to the newspaper without wanting their names posted. Their jobs are at risk. Their jobs are at risk because they happen to teach courses that have no real value. Guess what might happen in this area moving forward when it comes to assessing budget modification opportunities. A quote from the article: ..."“There is a pay freeze. There is fear that jobs will be cut,” the associate professor of sustainability and global cultures history said." It makes me think of Dan Aykroyd in GHOSTBUSTERS at the beginning of the movie: "I've been in the private sector, they expect results." Or maybe Dr. Venkman with the shock test.

At any rate, the tsunami and a general questioning of the role of higher education and the perceived value that comes from it are causing and will continue to cause the sharper universities to carefully assess what they're very good at and what they don't need to offer moving forward in such an environment. As a result, you will continue to see a careful realignment of certain programs and actual new course offerings that are relevant at Xavier.

I wouldn't trade Xavier's leadership team for another one. The new Deans of the B-School and Medical School are just two examples of the higher octane management team that are now in place for positioning Xavier for the future.

The University is financially sound. You don't pursue a new $200 million medical school if you are operating from a position of financial weakness. Xavier actually will spend $2.4 million on merit raises beginning Jan. 1, 2025.

Do stressors exist at Xavier? Absolutely. But they exist practically everywhere in higher education due to the demographic factors mentioned, and due to the changes that will come down the pike to higher education's content offerings. So, the water is turbulent due to the storm that we've been in and will continue to be in for a number of years. Imagine Harvard being a battleship that will cut through the waves without much sea sickness because of its endowment. Imagine Xavier as a well built cruiser that will make it through the storm as well, but with the need for staying sharp and responsive as the storm works its way through. Now imagine a small, D3-type, liberal arts school with a small endowment as a PT boat in this storm. It likely will not make it to calm waters.

Does that Enquirer article paint a true assessment of what's happening on Victory Parkway? Nope. It's practically a hatchet piece.

[hoopster68]

Dash: Is Xavier's relatively small endowment a positive or negative in this time of turmoil in higher ed? Is losing money a good, bad or neutral thing for a private university? Is the smaller enrollment a "one off" or a trend; if the latter what is the plan(s) to stop the bleeding? Should XU be offering more transparency to parents & donors? If so, what would that look like? Thank you.

[xudash]

Dash: Is Xavier's relatively small endowment a positive or negative in this time of turmoil in higher ed? Is losing money a good, bad or neutral thing for a private university? Is the smaller enrollment a "one off" or a trend; if the latter what is the plan(s) to stop the bleeding? Should XU be offering more transparency to parents & donors? If so, what would that look like? Thank you.

Endowment Size: A smaller endowment is an absolute negative. I think the meant-to-be-satirical saying is that you need to have a "B" behind your endowment figure to really feel good, or safe. Would we like to have a larger endowment? Absolutely. Xavier was relatively late to the game as compared to our peers. Father Mulligan was clueless in the 70's. However, Thanks to Father Hoff and continuing through Father Graham and now Dr. Hanycz, our development engine is at full throttle. Since taking the job, Gary Massa has brought almost $1 billion into the University. If you are wondering why we don't see all of that in the endowment now, then make sure you take a walk around campus - we were playing catch up with bricks and mortar, too. I personally believe you will begin to see endowment growth at Xavier moving forward. We may not ever have a whale kick in like Richmond did with tobacco money, but the power plant is in place and the University is now relevant and visible enough to attract $50 million gifts from Notre Dame graduates and anonymous donors.

Losing Money: I doubt you are actually looking for a response here, already knowing the obvious answer to the question. However, a few quotes from that article for perspective:

Xavier’s reports to the Internal Revenue Service show slow-rising revenue and faster-rising expenses over the past five years. According to the 990 forms the university is required to file as a nonprofit entity, that trend has diminished its budget surplus: [1] In 2019, the university reported a profit of about $29.9 million. Revenue was $317.8 million in the June 30, 2019, report, with expenses close to $288 million; [2] In the most recent report, for the year ended June 30, 2023, the surplus stood at $4.5 million. That was on revenue of $332.2 million and expenses of $327.7 million.

Smaller Enrollment Trend: The pressure on enrollment is not a "one off" proposition. It is a national issue, again brought on by demographic realities - that tsunami thing we've been discussing. There will be continued pressure to attract high caliber students. Allow me to just state that I am glad we are doing this from the Big East, so to speak, and not the Atlantic 10. We brought in at least (numbers haven't settled yet) 1,000 kids - we could have brought in more, but that academic and financial profile thing I stated earlier factored into our desired yield - from 41 states and I believe over 20 countries. Over 50% of X's students now come from outside Ohio. BTW, these figures I'm sharing are public information; I don't post otherwise. This tsunami thing is set up to play out for a while, but we'll get through it.

The Bleeding: Xavier will correct the budget issues primarily by focusing on and emphasizing the kinds of programs that a top Jesuit university should focus on - begin to think in terms of what is practical and what makes a solid Jesuit education worthwhile. I don't get caught up in articles that rate and rank schools, but it is interesting to point out that the most recent USN&WR college rankings places Xavier in a tie at 39th in the nation for undergraduate teaching. We sit there with Cornell, Ohio State, Purdue and Texas, among a few others. That's rather impressive. The overall ranking gets hit when you factor in things like retention, etc. We just hired in a retention guy from Notre Dame. I believe we continue to move in the right direction overall. Xavier isn't gushing blood here. This is an operational budget issue that will get addressed effectively, though in the face of all these crazy dynamics that are taking place in higher education.

Transparency: Not sure what that would look like. We are financially sound. We offer what we offer. There has never been more available information for a prospective student to make an informed choice on their college career. We attract over 14,000 applications annually from everywhere. I frankly don't believe we're hiding anything or have a disposition to do so. There isn't a university in this nation that operates exclusively through and with colored bubbles. We have some disgruntled folks who know their jobs are threatened. Perhaps they can see if Antioch is hiring.

[Xville]

Dash are you saying the article is wrong when it says that Xavier lost money this past year and could lose more the following year according to what drudy said?

I understand what you are saying regarding some faculty and their waste of space courses and majors, but from what I have been told by those associated witb the university is that financially it’s not a rosey picture and hasn’t been for a while now because Graham made quite a mess. I was told the current president had a lot to clean upz It’s getting cleaned up but still a while to go.

[xukeith]

Many people seem to enjoy spending $.

[xudash]

Dash are you saying the article is wrong when it says that Xavier lost money this past year and could lose more the following year according to what drudy said?

I understand what you are saying regarding some faculty and their waste of space courses and majors, but from what I have been told by those associated witb the university is that financially it’s not a rosey picture and hasn’t been for a while now because Graham made quite a mess. I was told the current president had a lot to clean upz It’s getting cleaned up but still a while to go.

I did not say that. I’m not denying the current complexities of Xavier’s Income Statement.

However, it is my understanding that the article paints a picture that is over the top with respect to its bleakness. Xavier‘s ability to move forward effectively is clear enough, even though we engaged McKinsey & Co. to help with that (a personal comical reference given my past personal experience with them).

You and I are clearly in touch with different people, but I like my connections.

It’s not going to be a walk in the park, but Xavier will navigate this.

The next bond issue will be telling.

[Xville]

I did not say that. I’m not denying the current complexities of Xavier’s Income Statement.

However, it is my understanding that the article paints a picture that is over the top with respect to its bleakness. Xavier‘s ability to move forward effectively is clear enough, even though we engaged McKinsey & Co. to help with that (a personal comical reference given my past personal experience with them).

You and I are clearly in touch with different people, but I like my connections.

It’s not going to be a walk in the park, but Xavier will navigate this.

The next bond issue will be telling.

Fair enough! As I stated I don’t know the in and out details of Xavier’s financials, just from what I have heard that wasn’t out in a positive light. Not saying they can’t dig themselves out and prosper, but from afar I can see where some mistakes were made, and I think generally “higher education” has been extremely slow in pivoting toward what people need and want. The ridiculous tuition prices haven’t helped.

[Xavier]

Is this much different than other private universities? I assume it’s certainly not just a Xavier problem.

[Final4]

I have heard that Father Graham and his administration made quite a few poor financial decisions

Care to elaborate

[bleedXblue]

No.

in 2022 my daughter was awarded 96K in scholarship money from XU. Although I was pushing it and was willing to pay the extra amount, she ended up at Boise State which costs me about 28K per year (total tuition, room, & board AFTER a 12K scholarship that basically gets the tuition to "in-state" levels).

So even after 24K per year in scholarship money from XU, I was still looking at around 35K a year out of pocket. If you arent getting any scholarship money is almost a quarter of a million bucks to go to XU. thats insane.

LOL, its 5K off and my numbers were from 4 years ago when my daughter attended. My POINT was that the premium to attend X is in the 5-7K range over most public schools. Yes, you have to have decent HS grades and respectable ACT score to get some scholarship $$.

[Xville]

Care to elaborate

Fundraising was great during that administration's tenure. What I have been told is that the allocation of quite a few of those dollars could have been spent better in terms of student retention, growth, pivoting. There was faculty/administration bloat, and dollars instead went to infrastructure with very small roi.

A lot of the things that you are seeing now with the new administration is fixing or pivoting to what should have started 10 years ago.

[MHettel]

LOL, its 5K off and my numbers were from 4 years ago when my daughter attended. My POINT was that the premium to attend X is in the 5-7K range over most public schools. Yes, you have to have decent HS grades and respectable ACT score to get some scholarship $$.

This is just way off. Did you see the part where I mentioned 96k in scholarship money? That’s 24k a year,

And it’s not “decent HS grades”. It’s 3.9, National Honor Society, and full IB diploma.

And the reality is that if you got that type of scholarship from XU, you’d get some decent money at the public school you are comparing againt.

In my experience, with currently 2 daughters in college it stacks up this way:

XU (also Gonzaga)- about 70k per year “list price”

Out of State Public U- about 45k per year “list price”

In State Public U- about 35k per year “list price”

[Xville]

LOL, its 5K off and my numbers were from 4 years ago when my daughter attended. My POINT was that the premium to attend X is in the 5-7K range over most public schools. Yes, you have to have decent HS grades and respectable ACT score to get some scholarship $$.

I agree that if you take X vs an out of state public institution that the numbers are pretty negligible and in fact due to scholarship money/aid etc X could possibly come out on top in a lot of cases. However, when you're discussing in-state, it's not even close...Xavier is double the amount, and most public schools have in-state tuition available in bordering states.

I think in general if you are to look at the costs of higher learning, that's the issue....not Xavier vs a UC but college vs alternatives. At least, that's what I contend.

[bleedXblue]

Considering I paid for my daughters first year at X and then the following 3 years at UC, I have first hand knowledge of the costs. My daughter received a partial academic scholarship with good HS GPA (3.8) and I don't recall her exact ACT score, but it was in the high 20's range. Not in the 30's

Yes, we live in OH. Of course things may have changed in the last 2-3 years but not that dramatically.

[X-man]

Fundraising was great during that administration's tenure. What I have been told is that the allocation of quite a few of those dollars could have been spent better in terms of student retention, growth, pivoting. There was faculty/administration bloat, and dollars instead went to infrastructure with very small roi.

A lot of the things that you are seeing now with the new administration is fixing or pivoting to what should have started 10 years ago.

No faculty bloat, I can assure you based upon the faculty numbers. But lts of admin bloat, just like at many other places. Big problem IMHO.

[Masterofreality]

Leave it to DASH to know the data and accurately report it.
Good job Sir!!

Edit: By the way it was reported this morning that public Cleveland State University has a budget shortfall this year of $40 million dollars- lending credence to DASH’s “tsunami” argument.

[drudy23]

In the most recent Sean Miller pod, Greg Christopher talked about a bunch of things athletics related.

Seems to think X is competitive with NIL, thinks the Big East likely won't expand unless they can find a program that will increase revenue share, Cintas enhancements should be done by October, and the medical college is probably the biggest priority at X right now.

Also found it interesting that he lumped the women's program in with the men's as flagship programs at the school, and the goal for each is the Final Four.

[bleedXblue]

In the most recent Sean Miller pod, Greg Christopher talked about a bunch of things athletics related.

Seems to think X is competitive with NIL, thinks the Big East likely won't expand unless they can find a program that will increase revenue share, Cintas enhancements should be done by October, and the medical college is probably the biggest priority at X right now.

Also found it interesting that he lumped the women's program in with the men's as flagship programs at the school, and the goal for each is the Final Four.

I think the womens program should make it a goal for a winning season in the next 2-3 years. My how they have fallen off. Final 4? C'mon now Greg

[muskiefan82]

Maybe he meant the final four of the big east tournament. Lol

[HomerCecil]

I think the womens program should make it a goal for a winning season in the next 2-3 years. My how they have fallen off. Final 4? C'mon now Greg

They have not won a Big East game since Feb. 20, 2022. Not a typo.

[GoMuskies]

They have not won a Big East game since Feb. 20, 2022. Not a typo.

Could you even imagine if we let the men's program get to this point? Would never happen. Obviously, the administration just doesn't care enough to prevent it from happening to the women's program.

[MHettel]

Could you even imagine if we let the men's program get to this point? Would never happen. Obviously, the administration just doesn't care enough to prevent it from happening to the women's program.

I wouldn’t be here to even read this question if the men’s program was in that condition

[xu82]

I wouldn’t be here to even read this question if the men’s program was in that condition

I have to agree with that.