BE NCAA Money

[XU_Lou]

Just saw this:

Xavier Grit @XavierGrit
For those curious, UConn, Marquette, and Creighton earned $22m for the Big East during the NCAAT.

That will be split amongst the 11 teams over the next 6 years. That’s $2m/team or roughly $333k per team per year.


Also saw that Xavier has taken in ~33M since joining the BE (see chart below).

Q1: does anyone know how much of that ends up in the Mens BB program, versus overall Athletic Dept., or the university itself?

Q2: can/will any of this be used in the NIL?

Regarding the chart, if you take out 2013 XU has made more than Depaul, SJU, Butler and possibly SH. First, how are those 3 schools close to XU, and how has G-town and Providence collected more, given that we've had much more success in the NCAAs than all those schools? Anyone have any insight to any of this? I's not clear from this graph, but possibly those numbers include payouts from the old BE?

https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1778105068740551157


https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1778105068740551157/photo/1

[XUMIOH12]

Just saw this:

Xavier Grit @XavierGrit
For those curious, UConn, Marquette, and Creighton earned $22m for the Big East during the NCAAT.

That will be split amongst the 11 teams over the next 6 years. That’s $2m/team or roughly $333k per team per year.


Also saw that Xavier has taken in ~33M since joining the BE (see chart below).

Q1: does anyone know how much of that ends up in the Mens BB program, versus overall Athletic Dept., or the university itself?

Q2: can/will any of this be used in the NIL?

Regarding the chart, if you take out 2013 XU has made more than Depaul, SJU, Butler and possibly SH. First, how are those 3 schools close to XU, and how has G-town and Providence collected more, given that we've had much more success in the NCAAs than all those schools? Anyone have any insight to any of this? I's not clear from this graph, but possibly those numbers include payouts from the old BE?

https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1778105068740551157


https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1778105068740551157/photo/1

Answer to Q2: No. It is going to the school, so at this point in time, it can't be used for NIL.

[waggy]

X, creighton and butler had reduced shares for a number of years.

[MHettel]

X, creighton and butler had reduced shares for a number of years.

I dont recall that. Source?

[XUMIOH12]

X, creighton and butler had reduced shares for a number of years.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it was reduced shares in that they didn't receive any of the residual shares that the Big East was still giving out from the prior years of the conference.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it was reduced shares in that they didn't receive any of the residual shares that the Big East was still giving out from the prior years of the conference.

Yes, I believe this is correct and what he meant.

Which would explain some other teams having as much or more who made the tourney less.

So if it pays out over 6 years, when X joined in 2014, the BE was getting hsares from 2008 still, so by 2020 X would be on equal footing with the rest of the BE members who would no long be getting old shares.

[X-band '01]

When you consider the premium that the Catholic 7 paid to get the Big East name plus the rights to MSG, it stands to reason that Xavier/Butler/Creighton would have a short-term period of reduced shares compared to everyone else.

That is thankfully in the past.

[MHettel]

When you consider the premium that the Catholic 7 paid to get the Big East name plus the rights to MSG, it stands to reason that Xavier/Butler/Creighton would have a short-term period of reduced shares compared to everyone else.

That is thankfully in the past.

I cant get the story straight. We werent entitled to shares that were earned prior to us becoming members, correct? And i assume neither was Uconn when they joined.

Thats how it almost always works unless you are SMU, CAL and Stanford that are willing to give up their firstborn child to join the ACC.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I cant get the story straight. We werent entitled to shares that were earned prior to us becoming members, correct? And i assume neither was Uconn when they joined.

Thats how it almost always works unless you are SMU, CAL and Stanford that are willing to give up their firstborn child to join the ACC.

The conference was allowed to make whatever rules they wanted about who got what, but yes, it makes sense that X, Creighton, and Butler would not get any of the money from tourney units earned before they became members.

Although I am sure some conferences would consider doing so if they were really trying hard to lure a school away from another conference or something. But I am sure most new members the same situation happens. It does stink a little for those new members bc they are losing out on any share from their previous conference as well, but obviously well worth it in the end.

[waggy]

I dont recall that. Source?

I think it was maybe the Atlantic that had the breakdown a couple years ago. I bet Dash would know where to find it.

It’s interesting because what I’m wondering is wouldn’t the American have kept all the past credits?

[XU_Lou]

Anyone know how payouts are allocated between Mens BB, overall Athletic Dept. and the university itself?

[noteggs]

Anyone know how payouts are allocated between Mens BB, overall Athletic Dept. and the university itself?

From what I understand after meeting with athletic department, basketball revenue always helps subsidizing other departments. Of course, not really surprising. To answer your question specifically, how much for “other” is what keeps our university moving forward and funds are moved accordingly.

[WCWIII]

What really irked me was that the Big East buy-in resulted in monies to UC and the AAAAAC. Someone might remember better the details. Also, my understanding is that the Big East doesn't make public its distribution. Finally, there is no extra payout for winning the championship ... units stop at the semi-finals.

On the Big East becoming the AAC and the "new Big East," the (wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932013_Big_East_Conference_realignment) ) article gives a good overview and links to different references.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I think it was maybe the Atlantic that had the breakdown a couple years ago. I bet Dash would know where to find it.

It’s interesting because what I’m wondering is wouldn’t the American have kept all the past credits?

The American was the new conference. The Big East was the existing conference. It kept the name, MSG, and (unless I am mistaken) the NCAA credits.

[xubrew]

The American was the new conference. The Big East was the existing conference. It kept the name, MSG, and (unless I am mistaken) the NCAA credits.

Not exactly...

TECHNICALLY the current American is the Old/Classic Big East. The New Big East was a new conference starting from scratch. It was a Baltimore Ravens/Cleveland Browns sort of deal.

NCAA units are paid out over a period of six years. Of all the money the Big East earned from this year's tournament, they will get 1/6th of it this year. They are also still getting money from the previous five tournaments. So, Seton Hall's appearance against Wofford in 2019 is still included in the money that the conference will get this year.

The current Big East was a new conference. It had not existed for the previous five years, so depending on how you want to look at that the shares were initially smaller. As far as Xavier, Butler, and Creighton still getting even less...I really don't know, but...PROBABLY?? It seems like that would be fair. In order to keep the Big East name, branding, and logo one of the things those other seven schools agreed to do was let the American keep all previous NCAA Tournamnet earnings. So, perhaps they should have gotten a little more.

[xubrew]

The American was the new conference. The Big East was the existing conference. It kept the name, MSG, and (unless I am mistaken) the NCAA credits.

Not exactly...

TECHNICALLY the current American is the Old/Classic Big East. The New Big East was a new conference starting from scratch. It was a Baltimore Ravens/Cleveland Browns sort of deal.

NCAA units are paid out over a period of six years. Of all the money the Big East earned from this year's tournament, they will get 1/6th of it this year. They are also still getting money from the previous five tournaments. So, Seton Hall's appearance against Wofford in 2019 is still included in the money that the conference will get this year.

The current Big East was a new conference. It had not existed for the previous five years, so depending on how you want to look at that the shares were initially smaller. As far as Xavier, Butler, and Creighton still getting even less...I really don't know, but...PROBABLY?? It seems like that would be fair. In order to keep the Big East name, branding, and logo one of the things those other seven schools agreed to do was let the American keep all previous NCAA Tournamnet earnings. So, perhaps they should have gotten a little more.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Not exactly...

TECHNICALLY the current American is the Old/Classic Big East. The New Big East was a new conference starting from scratch. It was a Baltimore Ravens/Cleveland Browns sort of deal.

NCAA units are paid out over a period of six years. Of all the money the Big East earned from this year's tournament, they will get 1/6th of it this year. They are also still getting money from the previous five tournaments. So, Seton Hall's appearance against Wofford in 2019 is still included in the money that the conference will get this year.

The current Big East was a new conference. It had not existed for the previous five years, so depending on how you want to look at that the shares were initially smaller. As far as Xavier, Butler, and Creighton still getting even less...I really don't know, but...PROBABLY?? It seems like that would be fair. In order to keep the Big East name, branding, and logo one of the things those other seven schools agreed to do was let the American keep all previous NCAA Tournamnet earnings. So, perhaps they should have gotten a little more.

Oh interesting, I had this all wrong then. I thought the Big East kept the NCAA credits. I guess maybe that was the trade off for keeping the BE name and MSG?

So no team in the BE was getting any NCAA credits for the tourney years 2010-2014? So if X/Crieghton/Butler were getting smaller shares it was truly a situation where they were getting reduced shares of the current conferences tourney units. So if that is true, I wonder how long that lasted for?

[xubrew]

Oh interesting, I had this all wrong then. I thought the Big East kept the NCAA credits. I guess maybe that was the trade off for keeping the BE name and MSG?

So no team in the BE was getting any NCAA credits for the tourney years 2010-2014? So if X/Crieghton/Butler were getting smaller shares it was truly a situation where they were getting reduced shares of the current conferences tourney units. So if that is true, I wonder how long that lasted for?

I have no idea. I've heard that X, Butler, and Creighton got less, but I don't know how much less or if that's even true. It just seems to me like that would have been a fair arrangement. The other seven schools were walking away from a lot more than X, BU, and CREI, so it seems fair to me that for a few years they should get a little more.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I have no idea. I've heard that X, Butler, and Creighton got less, but I don't know how much less or if that's even true. It just seems to me like that would have been a fair arrangement. The other seven schools were walking away from a lot more than X, BU, and CREI, so it seems fair to me that for a few years they should get a little more.

They were walking away either way but yeah, they certainly had the leverage to make that happen if they wanted to.

[GIMMFD]

Getting UCONN when we did was massive to be honest, and they've done their share to help give us some revenue back. The Big East did well this year in the tournament, and hopefully next year we can contribute to that, and maybe get 6-7 teams in.

[xudash]

I think it was maybe the Atlantic that had the breakdown a couple years ago. I bet Dash would know where to find it.

It’s interesting because what I’m wondering is wouldn’t the American have kept all the past credits?

In addition to X, Futler and Creighton not sharing in the so-called C7 monies that came over from the old Big East, distributions of NCAAT Unit monies are not distributed equally amongst BE members, but are distributed with higher amounts to those schools that earned the actual units:

We don’t have an exact explanation for why each team gets the exact payout it does, but using DePaul as a baseline (0 NCAA Tournament appearances) and Villanova as a topline (6 appearances) we can deduce that there isn’t an equal distribution of NCAA units/payments.

https://painttouches.com/2022/07/28/big-east-financials-how-much-do-conference-payouts-cover/

Now imagine still being stuck in the A10 with its terrible unit acquisition potential AND the fact that whatever they garner gets spread over 14 teams.

BTW, if you read the article to the end, the author brings up a comparison of Marquette to Wisconsin, and comes to certain conclusions about football schools - more specifically "media-rich" B1G schools versus Big East schools. We own our place - we don't rent, so I'm not seeing an apples to apples comparison here for the most part.

But his ending point is what I have been preaching about for a while now: how important it will be to secure a nice, fat, new media agreement.

Otherwise, you can field a high level football program and have all the overhead and Title IX stuff that comes along with it - SO LONG AS YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE B1G AND SEC. Everyone else strapping themselves to the mast over football had better watch their numbers.

[D-West & PO-Z]

In addition to X, Futler and Creighton not sharing in the so-called C7 monies that came over from the old Big East, distributions of NCAAT Unit monies are not distributed equally amongst BE members, but are distributed with higher amounts to those schools that earned the actual units:


Brew just said the Big East didn't retain those units, the AAC did. Anyone know which is really the case? I thought the BE did until brew said otherwise. Now I have no idea.

[xudash]

Brew just said the Big East didn't retain those units, the AAC did. Anyone know which is really the case? I thought the BE did until brew said otherwise. Now I have no idea.

It’s my understanding that the C7 retained about $10 million out of a fund that was comprised of entry fees, exit fees, and NCAA tournament units. In other words, they kept a little of the pool in exchange for being able to purchase the BE name and secure MSG, etc.

[paulxu]

A little detail here, but this was before it was finalized:

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/09/sports/ncaabasketball/big-east-to-sell-its-name-to-breakaway-catholic-universities.html

[xudash]

A little detail here, but this was before it was finalized:

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/09/sports/ncaabasketball/big-east-to-sell-its-name-to-breakaway-catholic-universities.html

Oh, it looks like that article is behind a pay wall. Does it mention anything about the funding? I’m fairly certain the C7 came over with some cash in order to fund their working capital requirements to set up the new conference, higher Val and staff, etc. Granted, they started out in borrowed offices from their law firm, but I do not think they were solely reliant on the Fox media money out of the gate.

[paulxu]

Ack, I don't subscribe but am able to read it.
Here are a couple pieces cut out:

The sale of the Big East name is not an exchange of cash. Instead, the so-called Catholic 7 will pay primarily by leaving behind much, if not all, of the money they would have received from the exit fees of other departing universities and the entry fees from new members, according to two people who have been briefed on the negotiations. The Catholic universities will not pay departure fee



The document contemplates letting the seven universities retain millions of dollars from their appearances in the N.C.A.A. men’s basketball tournament because they are leaving as a group. Other universities that have departed, or will depart, like West Virginia, Syracuse and Pittsburgh, have left about $50 million with the conference

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/09/sports/ncaabasketball/big-east-to-sell-its-name-to-breakaway-catholic-universities.html

[paulxu]

Ack, I don't subscribe but am able to read it.
Here are a couple pieces cut out:

The sale of the Big East name is not an exchange of cash. Instead, the so-called Catholic 7 will pay primarily by leaving behind much, if not all, of the money they would have received from the exit fees of other departing universities and the entry fees from new members, according to two people who have been briefed on the negotiations. The Catholic universities will not pay departure fee



The document contemplates letting the seven universities retain millions of dollars from their appearances in the N.C.A.A. men’s basketball tournament because they are leaving as a group. Other universities that have departed, or will depart, like West Virginia, Syracuse and Pittsburgh, have left about $50 million with the conference

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/09/sports/ncaabasketball/big-east-to-sell-its-name-to-breakaway-catholic-universities.html

Put this into google and when the article comes up, see if you can get into it:

big east ncaa money catholic seven

[xudash]

Ack, I don't subscribe but am able to read it.
Here are a couple pieces cut out:




https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/09/sports/ncaabasketball/big-east-to-sell-its-name-to-breakaway-catholic-universities.html

Put this into google and when the article comes up, see if you can get into it:

big east ncaa money catholic seven

It's what I recalled:

The basketball schools will receive $10 million, the Big East name and the right to play their conference tournament at Madison Square Garden.

https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/ap-catholic-7-get-big-east-name-football-schools-keep-100m-in-split/

They had to break off receiving some cash in order to crank up the new conference. The foresight was extraordinary. The football schools were desperate even then to gobble up as much cash as they could, so they walked off with about $100mm.

The C7? They only walked off with one of the most valuable brands in college hoops and a home address of MSG for the BET moving forward. Then they took $10mm, brought in Val Ackerman, borrowed some law offices while intergalactic headquarters were being established and set up some new email addresses to crank it up.

It could not have gone much better than it did, and we're even better positioned now (assuming UCONN doesn't get uppity about football again) than we were in 2013, even with all of the NIL and portal disruption