The Final 2%

[Masterofreality]

This is a message that I received from the Director of The Final 2% which is totally affiliated with Xavier. The effort is to make X competitive with all Division 1 programs in this area.

“I have confidence we can compete well with NIL if we can energize the fan base more. We’ve got some rabid fans and some good momentum, if more can do a little to help, it will make a big difference. My screen name on XHoops is XUFinal2. This is what we put together for the monthly support to get started, idea being is let’s give fans some cool perks to feel closer to the program like X team merch, more time with Miller, collectible’s, etc for helping out.

For anyone looking at the tax deadline today, they can do an one time donation too…
Thanks and below is the link!”

Just one last item. A big Xavier Fat Cat has offered to match all donations to the Final 2% fund up to $500,000 so the donations now mean a lot!!

LETS GO PEOPLE!! And HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

https://final2percent.com/subscribe/

[drudy23]

If they are asking people to continue to give money for this, they should be more transparent. For example, if I were to ever even consider this, a few questions come to mind:

1) What's the annual NIL budget needed for X to remain at the same level of recruiting talent? What is required to upgrade?
2) How do we know these dollars get spent in the way they are claiming they will get spent? What if you raise more money than is needed? Does every player get paid? What's the break down?
3) Is the school allowed to re-allocate budgets for any of this? Does it all have to be outside money or can schools allocate funds to NIL budgets?

[XUGRAD80]

C’mon people, you can do a monthly contribution for as little as $10 a month. It’s not like they are asking for thousands of dollars from everyone.

[MHettel]

C’mon people, you can do a monthly contribution for as little as $10 a month. It’s not like they are asking for thousands of dollars from everyone.

Ok, Math time!

Lets assume there are 1000 XU Graduates a year going back 50 years. Thats 50,000 of us. We all decide to give 10 bucks a month. Thats 600K.

If we think we can compete by adding 600K in a scenario where 100% of alumni chip in, then its over before it starter.

Its not worth their time to deal with 10 a month.

They are looking for thousands. tens of thousands, preferrably. Hundreds of thousands if you can spare it...

[drudy23]

Ok, Math time!

Lets assume there are 1000 XU Graduates a year going back 50 years. Thats 50,000 of us. We all decide to give 10 bucks a month. Thats 600K.

If we think we can compete by adding 600K in a scenario where 100% of alumni chip in, then its over before it starter.

Its not worth their time to deal with 10 a month.

They are looking for thousands. tens of thousands, preferrably. Hundreds of thousands if you can spare it...

Isn't that math $6 million?

100% participation is a pipedream, so I would say a 20% up-take on that $6M is realistic? So we're looking at $1.2M - at the end of the day, what does $500k-$1M per year get Xavier? Is that enough? Without context, these numbers don't mean anything.

Does that keep our best players here and allow some to attract in recruiting and the portal? Do they even need to worry about the front-end HS recruits with our recruiting profile (are our level of HS recruits getting NIL money)?

[drudy23]

C’mon people, you can do a monthly contribution for as little as $10 a month. It’s not like they are asking for thousands of dollars from everyone.

Every bit helps, sure, but they are most certainly looking for the big fish.

Without the big fish, it's unsustainable and probably impossible.

If someone asks for my money for a cause, I feel I have the right to ask these questions and get answers. Not saying they won't give them to me if I asked, but I haven't asked.

[Final4]

I find this to be an interesting topic. I’ve found two separate XU web pages that listed our alums at 72,000 and 75,000 respectively. I was shocked at that number…….had no idea it was that high. Clearly, Xavier is going to have a much better handle on that number than I would so I’m going to use their estimate (I’ve rounded down to 70,000 for simplicity).

Out of 70,000 what percentage would you guess has an affinity for Xavier of sufficient merit that would result in charitable contributions. I’m guessing 30%.........I have absolutely no idea if that number is high or low.

Here is where I think the conversation becomes interesting. Out of the 21,000 alums who would be willing to make contributions, how many would then opt out when they discover that their donations are not going to Xavier University but rather directly to Lazar Djokovic, et al. Does that number now drop to 5,000? More? Less?

[XUGRAD80]

Ok, Math time!

Lets assume there are 1000 XU Graduates a year going back 50 years. Thats 50,000 of us. We all decide to give 10 bucks a month. Thats 600K.

If we think we can compete by adding 600K in a scenario where 100% of alumni chip in, then its over before it starter.

Its not worth their time to deal with 10 a month.

They are looking for thousands. tens of thousands, preferrably. Hundreds of thousands if you can spare it...

Sure they are, but they have set up where someone can get involved for as little as $10 per month. AND right now there is someone matching donations up to 500K.

[bjf123]

That 70-75k graduates might include the MBA program, most of whom, I’m guessing, have no relationship with Xavier athletics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GoMuskies]

Chris Sabo made $10.3 million in his career with the Reds. Feels like he should be sharing the wealth with the 2%ers!

[xu82]

Being a great athlete gets MUCH better with every generation.

[JTG]

When I was a student and worked in the Bursars Office there were more students in the grad school & night school than undergrad.

[A Fan]

It is good to see that the Director of Final 2% is a member of this Board ( XUFinal2). I have a few questions so I will address my comments to him or her. I assume you are responsible for both raising and disbursing the collective’s funds. I have never given to a non profit where I did not know the Executive Director and understand its mission. So I ask these questions.

(1) Who are you. Who chose you to be the Director. What is your background. Are you being compensated
.
(2) What is your anticipated annual budget and what is your tentative allocation among all sports teams.

(3) Do you have any idea of the size of the budgets of the collectives of the other Big East Schools.

(4) Will you be offering NIL money to high school players.

(5) Do you negotiate the terms directly with the player or their agent.

(6) How do you determine the NIL value of each player.

(7) Do you have a cap on the amount you will give to any one player .

(8) Are you offering money on a multi year basis.

I wish you the best in expanding your donor base and hopefully this Board will be able to assist. I know you are in a competitive position vis a vis other collectives and you may be restrained from being public with information. But you should be able to invite members of this Board to a meeting where you will attempt to answer as many questions as possible. Soliciting Funds without adequate disclosure is not a good thing.

[Masterofreality]

On the link that I originally posted on this thread, within the site, there is contact info directly to the folks involved.
Below is that info:

GET IN TOUCH
Are you looking to get in touch with FINAL 2%? Fill out the form below with your inquiry. Our team will be in touch post-form submission. Thanks!
EMAIL US
Email: info@final2percent.com

[XUGRAD80]

Ok, Math time!

Lets assume there are 1000 XU Graduates a year going back 50 years. Thats 50,000 of us. We all decide to give 10 bucks a month. Thats 600K.

If we think we can compete by adding 600K in a scenario where 100% of alumni chip in, then its over before it starter.

Its not worth their time to deal with 10 a month.

They are looking for thousands. tens of thousands, preferrably. Hundreds of thousands if you can spare it...

That’s $600,000 per MONTH….or $7.2 MILLION per YEAR. :shocked:

That looks a whole lot different when you look at it that way, right? Why do you think that all those organizations you see advertising on TV for monthly donations only ask for $19 a month? X wouldn’t get 100% buyin anyway. But they might get 5% at $10/month and 5% at $20/month and 5% at $50 a month and 5% at $100/month…..that 20% making some kind of donation monthly.

$10 would net $25,000
$20 would net $50,000
$50 would net $125,000
$100 would net $250,000

That’s a total of $450,000 per month and $5.4 MILLION dollars per year.

I’m betting that there a lot of X alumni that can afford $100 a month, I KNOW that there are a lot that could afford the $10.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Ok, Math time!

Lets assume there are 1000 XU Graduates a year going back 50 years. Thats 50,000 of us. We all decide to give 10 bucks a month. Thats 600K.

If we think we can compete by adding 600K in a scenario where 100% of alumni chip in, then its over before it starter.

Its not worth their time to deal with 10 a month.

They are looking for thousands. tens of thousands, preferrably. Hundreds of thousands if you can spare it...

Your math ain't mathin' Hett......

[drudy23]

Nobody's math is mathin:

50,000 (XU Graduates) x $10 (Dollars Per Month) x 12 (# of Months) = $6,000,000 Per Year

That's at 100% participation, which will never happen. Take 10-20% of that $6,000,000 and you're in the ballpark of $600k - $1.2M per year.

Does $1M get the job done every year? I have no clue.

[drudy23]

That’s $600,000 per MONTH….or $7.2 MILLION per YEAR. :shocked:

That looks a whole lot different when you look at it that way, right? Why do you think that all those organizations you see advertising on TV for monthly donations only ask for $19 a month? X wouldn’t get 100% buyin anyway. But they might get 5% at $10/month and 5% at $20/month and 5% at $50 a month and 5% at $100/month…..that 20% making some kind of donation monthly.

$10 would net $25,000
$20 would net $50,000
$50 would net $125,000
$100 would net $250,000

That’s a total of $450,000 per month and $5.4 MILLION dollars per year.

I’m betting that there a lot of X alumni that can afford $100 a month, I KNOW that there are a lot that could afford the $10.

Afford - yes.

Fell the need to - no.

There is a huge psychological barrier to get fans to pay for players. There just is.

[GoMuskies]

Afford - yes.

Fell the need to - no.

There is a huge psychological barrier to get fans to pay for players. There just is.

For sure. I have three kids of my own. Why am I giving money to someone else's kids?

[XUGRAD80]

Afford - yes.

Fell the need to - no.

There is a huge psychological barrier to get fans to pay for players. There just is.

I totally get that some people will choose not to contribute, even though they certainly can. That’s why they will never get 100% participation. But they don’t need to in order to bring in a huge hunk of money still. On the other hand, there are going to be people that are willing to put up 10-20-50-100 dollars a month or more and never give it a 2nd thought. Just as there are people that contribute every month to Xavier knowing full well that the money they contribute helps to fund academic scholarships. If you, or anyone else, choose not to contribute, so be it. I respect your decision.

But if someone chooses not to contribute , then I would consider it hypocritical of them to complain about Xavier not being able to recruit top level kids or about X being unable compete successfully against schools where they have large NIL funds.

TANSTAAFL……..there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch. If you want to dance, you’ve got to pay the fiddler.

[drudy23]

I totally get that some people will choose not to contribute, even though they certainly can. That’s why they will never get 100% participation. But they don’t need to in order to bring in a huge hunk of money still. On the other hand, there are going to be people that are willing to put up 10-20-50-100 dollars a month or more and never give it a 2nd thought. Just as there are people that contribute every month to Xavier knowing full well that the money they contribute helps to fund academic scholarships. If you, or anyone else, choose not to contribute, so be it. I respect your decision.

But if someone chooses not to contribute , then I would consider it hypocritical of them to complain about Xavier not being able to recruit top level kids or about X being unable compete successfully against schools where they have large NIL funds.

TANSTAAFL……..there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch. If you want to dance, you’ve got to pay the fiddler.

Agree somewhat but not completely.

Is it really all that different than what was already going on with donations? I just think the school needs to be on the hook for 98% of this. It's their mess to wade through. It's their job to invest in more areas to fuel NIL. Hire a team, start knocking on business doors, kiss babies, create fundraising events, etc, etc. I'm sure that's in the gameplan.

Honestly, there is now no limit, where before you felt constrained by the rules. Who at X is hustling to get X players involved with local businesses and corporate sponsors? Expand the Marketing/Development team.

You want to throw together some campaigns to make the fans feel connected to it, fine - but there's a fine line between that and feeling like some of this falls on the fans. That's crazy to me. We already fund so much of it from tickets, concessions, donations, parking, tuition, etc, etc.

[Final4]

Afford - yes.

Fell the need to - no.

There is a huge psychological barrier to get fans to pay for players. There just is.

I agree and this is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. I make donations to Xavier University (primarily the All For One fund) and will continue to do so in the future. I’ll be damned if I’m going to write a check payable to Trey Green (nothing against Trey; I’m sure he is a fine young man).

A lot of people, including some on this board, feel players should be paid. I guess that’s an easy position to take when someone else is doing the paying. I’m in the camp where I don’t think players should be paid. My dad worked two jobs (and I busted my ass) for me to able to go to X. In my mind a full ride and all the other perks should be sufficient compensation. I do however concede that a monthly stipend of an equal amount should be paid to all athletes.

[Xville]

Agree somewhat but not completely.

Is it really all that different than what was already going on with donations? I just think the school needs to be on the hook for 98% of this. It's their mess to wade through. It's their job to invest in more areas to fuel NIL. Hire a team, start knocking on business doors, kiss babies, create fundraising events, etc, etc. I'm sure that's in the gameplan.

Honestly, there is now no limit, where before you felt constrained by the rules. Who at X is hustling to get X players involved with local businesses and corporate sponsors? Expand the Marketing/Development team.

You want to throw together some campaigns to make the fans feel connected to it, fine - but there's a fine line between that and feeling like some of this falls on the fans. That's crazy to me. We already fund so much of it from tickets, concessions, donations, parking, tuition, etc, etc.

Agreed 1 million percent and couldn’t say it any better. If at some point “ the school” pays their own players and it’s wrapped up in ticket costs or whatever. Ok fine that is what it is and I can make that choice to attend if I want, but to ask separately for me to pay Johnny basketball money directly? lol kiss my ass. I firmly believe players should be paid. I also firmly believe that money shouldn’t have to come from x alumni and people who support the school and the athletic department.


Lastly, I believe people are worrying way too much about this nil and acting like it’s created an even bigger disadvantage. I’ll believe that when I actually see it. Up until now it’s been the opposite effect.

[bleedXblue]

I agree and this is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. I make donations to Xavier University (primarily the All For One fund) and will continue to do so in the future. I’ll be damned if I’m going to write a check payable to Trey Green (nothing against Trey; I’m sure he is a fine young man).

A lot of people, including some on this board, feel players should be paid. I guess that’s an easy position to take when someone else is doing the paying. I’m in the camp where I don’t think players should be paid. My dad worked two jobs (and I busted my ass) for me to able to go to X. In my mind a full ride and all the other perks should be sufficient compensation. I do however concede that a monthly stipend of an equal amount should be paid to all athletes.

Agreed and this whole NIL should be based on market dynamics that can be validated. For example- if the Manning kid at Texas got 3M NIL to sign with Texas- where is the validation that his NIL was used and it has a market value of 3M. I could be wrong but dont think anyone is policing this and now its simply comes down to whos willing to fork over the dough to get him to sign- has nothing to do with NIL....

[MHettel]

I totally get that some people will choose not to contribute, even though they certainly can. That’s why they will never get 100% participation. But they don’t need to in order to bring in a huge hunk of money still. On the other hand, there are going to be people that are willing to put up 10-20-50-100 dollars a month or more and never give it a 2nd thought. Just as there are people that contribute every month to Xavier knowing full well that the money they contribute helps to fund academic scholarships. If you, or anyone else, choose not to contribute, so be it. I respect your decision.

But if someone chooses not to contribute , then I would consider it hypocritical of them to complain about Xavier not being able to recruit top level kids or about X being unable compete successfully against schools where they have large NIL funds.

TANSTAAFL……..there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch. If you want to dance, you’ve got to pay the fiddler.

Im gonna stay away from doing any math this time....

This whole line of discussion might be occuring simultaneously on any number of college basketball message boards as we speak. The reality is, we have a FRACTION of the alumni that most state schools have. Add in all of the NON-Alumni fans that also love their state school and the potential population of people contributing is overwhelmingly in favor fo the big schools.

If you are relying on a fat cat to bankroll the program, the problem persists. Sure we have few of our own, but put a 10X on the alumni population for a buig schools and they will have far more than we do.

The old rules allowed our little Mom & Pop convenience store on the corner to survive and somewhat flourish in the land of Costco, Walmart and Home Depot. But as soon as the rules change and allow the big boys to weaponize their advantage, we become nostalgia.

NIL + Immediate Transfer rules is ground zero.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I like the idea of collectives having cool perks or rewards for fans who contribute. Now, I am not sure that the ones offered in the Final 2% are enough to persuade me to contribute but I think that is the route to go for trying to get the average fan to contribute. But I agree it should be on the schools to figure this out how to fund, not on those of us fans who already are paying for tickets and gear and concessions etc.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Not really related to anything other than talking about getting alumni to contribute but I may be one of the rare fans on this message board who did not go to X. I was thinking though about my other friends who are diehard Xavier fans that I text regularly with about X basketball. Of a group of 9 of us who all are big X basketball fans who text regularly about Xavier hoops, only 1 of us went to X for undergrad (1 went for grad school).

Obviously the number of non alumni X fans is much smaller than those of state schools (similar to the alumni numbers themselves) but there would be some who didn't go there who might contribute as well.

[drudy23]

I also tend to think "the Final 2%" is more of a marketing ploy than reality. Are we really only 2% away?

If so, we probably wouldn't need a campaign for the final 2%.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I also tend to think "the Final 2%" is more of a marketing ploy than reality. Are we really only 2% away?

If so, we probably wouldn't need a campaign for the final 2%.

The final 2% refers to getting over the hump to the Final 4. Was it Steele who said that in his press conference? Or did it start with another coach?

[drudy23]

The final 2% refers to getting over the hump to the Final 4. Was it Steele who said that in his press conference? Or did it start with another coach?

Hopefully we're not using anything Steele related in any of the marketing.

I just clicked the link to check it out, and I'm simply not interested in things even in the highest tier:

Virtual game film break-down with Coach - don't care
Merchandise - maybe, but have plenty
Shoot Around at Cintas with players - don't care - how about some open gym runs?
Virtual scouting break-down - don't care
Attend a practice - don't care
Birthday Shout-Out - don't care

Things I would care about:
- Preferential tickets to away games or NCAA tournament games
- Suite give-aways for high profile home games (or any home games for that matter)
- Preferential treatment toward seat upgrades
- Letting me practice with the team, or throw me into some pick up games - just to see what I can do lol
- Walk-on for a couple games, with the potential to play in the game lol
- Concession vouchers for each home game - $6 hot dog!!!

[XUGRAD80]

Agreed . I firmly believe players should be paid. I also firmly believe that money shouldn’t have to come from x alumni and people who support the school and the athletic department.


So where should the money come from then?

[XUGRAD80]

I agree and this is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. I make donations to Xavier University (primarily the All For One fund) and will continue to do so in the future. I’ll be damned if I’m going to write a check payable to Trey Green (nothing against Trey; I’m sure he is a fine young man).

A lot of people, including some on this board, feel players should be paid. I guess that’s an easy position to take when someone else is doing the paying. I’m in the camp where I don’t think players should be paid. My dad worked two jobs (and I busted my ass) for me to able to go to X. In my mind a full ride and all the other perks should be sufficient compensation. I do however concede that a monthly stipend of an equal amount should be paid to all athletes.


That ship has sailed, it’s never going back to that at the top level of college sports. Personally, I’d be very happy if this whole NIL thing had never come about, but now that it has it is purly wishful thinking for it to go away. X has a choice to make…..do they try to compete at the highest levels of college ball or do they drop down a level and try to dominate there? If they are going to compete at the highest level then a quality NIL program is going to be necessary and that money has to come from somewhere.

[Xville]

So where should the money come from then?

The school. I know that’s “not legal” right now but there are ways around that, and I’m sure there are much shadier accounting practices going on at every school anyways, and I believe that’s ultimately where we are headed anyways.

[XUGRAD80]

The school. I know that’s “not legal” right now but there are ways around that, and I’m sure there are much shadier accounting practices going on at every school anyways, and I believe that’s ultimately where we are headed anyways.

So where does the school get the money?

[Xville]

So where does the school get the money?

For right now? How About the money the athletic department makes or the insane tuition costs? That’s a start. Go door to door and get some companies to spend some money… plenty of suggestions have already been made on here. Not my job to figure it out. I don’t think we are the ones who should be getting hit up for it at least not directly. Give plenty to the school and the athletic department already

[noteggs]

For sure. I have three kids of my own. Why am I giving money to someone else's kids?

You selfish bastard! What ever happened to paying for the common good!!!
(Sarc font)

[XUGRAD80]

For right now? How About the money the athletic department makes or the insane tuition costs? That’s a start. Go door to door and get some companies to spend some money… plenty of suggestions have already been made on here

Ultimately all of that money comes from people.
The athletic department makes money on tickets, concessions, etc…..which are paid for by fans.
The tuition costs are paid for by parents and/or the students themselves. If they are getting government grants, that’s paid for by taxing people and companies.
Many companies are already buying tickets and boxes, and giving large sums of money for the rights to buy those things. Many also support the program through advertising and naming rights. They get that money by charging the public for their goods and services. If they increase their costs by increasing their donations to or purchases from the athletic program, or by increasing their taxes, they have to raise their prices to compensate for their higher costs.

In the case of tuition being used or getting money from companies there are going to people that have absolutely no interest in basketball or college athletics ultimately footing the bill.

Only in the case of raising money by increasing ticket prices do people who are interested in supporting the program have that direct choice.

So…..would you rather have ticket prices for everyone be raised? Or have a setup where those that CHOOSE to can donate money and those that CHOOSE NOT TO can keep their money?…….and ticket prices can stay low.

I think it’s better for people to have a choice…….although as has been expressed on this board the ticket prices at X are extremely low when compared to other schools at its level. They are going up next year already.

[Xville]

Ultimately all of that money comes from people.
The athletic department makes money on tickets, concessions, etc…..which are paid for by fans.
The tuition costs are paid for by parents and/or the students themselves. If they are getting government grants, that’s paid for by taxing people and companies.
Many companies are already buying tickets and boxes, and giving large sums of money for the rights to buy those things. Many also support the program through advertising and naming rights. They get that money by charging the public for their goods and services. If they increase their costs by increasing their donations to or purchases from the athletic program, or by increasing their taxes, they have to raise their prices to compensate for their higher costs.

In the case of tuition being used or getting money from companies there are going to people that have absolutely no interest in basketball or college athletics ultimately footing the bill.

Only in the case of raising money by increasing ticket prices do people who are interested in supporting the program have that direct choice.

So…..would you rather have ticket prices for everyone be raised? Or have a setup where those that CHOOSE to can donate money and those that CHOOSE NOT TO can keep their money?…….and ticket prices can stay low.

I think it’s better for people to have a choice…….although as has been expressed on this board the ticket prices at X are extremely low when compared to other schools at its level. They are going up next year already.

Athletics makes a significant amount of money from tv, tickets, concessions, big East etc. what I am saying is that we shouldn’t have to shell out an additional amoun, in other words enough already. If it’s built in, I’d rather go that route, as I said before.

In the case of tuition or companies, of course there are going to be those who have no interest. I had no interest in a lot of things while I paid tuition but still did it because it’s part of tuition. In the case of companies, well no shit. That’s sales. You call and make the sale to people who want to do it. You have Joe basketball in a commercial or whatever nil was originally supposed to be. There is no need to start raising prices, advertising is all about brand awareness to bring more people in. That’s what a Xavier player could be doing.

[JEHARDI]

The boosters at the top football and basketball schools are ponying up. If we want to compete with them, we will have to find a way to do the same.

[paulxu]

I guess it works. But buying a player’s services for one year, at far more than we pay professors, seems crazy.

[Xville]

The boosters at the top football and basketball schools are ponying up. If we want to compete with them, we will have to find a way to do the same.

X has competed with them at an inherent disadvantage for their entire history. Those schools were paying players already. Not really concerned about them.

[D-West & PO-Z]

X has competed with them at an inherent disadvantage for their entire history. Those schools were paying players already. Not really concerned about them.

Agreed. Even if you want to argue they werent paying players, they still had way more money which led to way better facilities, way more perks like private jets for recruiting purposes, etc. Xavier has always been at a disadvantage, say compared to an OSU.

[Masterofreality]

I guess it works. But buying a player’s services for one year, at far more than we pay professors, seems crazy.

Hmmm. How “crazy” would it be if Graham Ike was playing at X and not Gonzaga who outbid us???

[MHettel]

Hmmm. How “crazy” would it be if Graham Ike was playing at X and not Gonzaga who outbid us???

I'm not sure, MOR. Think he could crack our lineup? He's only averaging 14 & 8 on 59% shooting.....in 22 minutes a game.

Money talks, and apparently we dont have much to say.

[XUGRAD80]

“There's been an increased emphasis over the last seven-plus months on raising NIL funds. XU's collective has gone public and reached out to the fanbase to crowdsource donations after operating in silence for the last two years. No one is going to share specific numbers when it comes to NIL funds. I've been told the efforts have helped but there is still a sizeable gap between XU and the Big East programs with the biggest war chests (Villanova & St. John's). I believe somewhere in the neighborhood of $3-3.5 million would get a team to the top of the conference in NIL spending.”

From an online basketball recruiting site. I’m just going to leave this here and let people think about it.

[Xville]

“There's been an increased emphasis over the last seven-plus months on raising NIL funds. XU's collective has gone public and reached out to the fanbase to crowdsource donations after operating in silence for the last two years. No one is going to share specific numbers when it comes to NIL funds. I've been told the efforts have helped but there is still a sizeable gap between XU and the Big East programs with the biggest war chests (Villanova & St. John's). I believe somewhere in the neighborhood of $3-3.5 million would get a team to the top of the conference in NIL spending.”

From an online basketball recruiting site. I’m just going to leave this here and let people think about it.

That's one of the biggest problems I have with this.

Who wrote this? Is it someone credible or just a fan? Don't have specific numbers but 3-3.5 mil will get it done? It all seems extremely shady to me.

[muskieindent]

I don't have a problem with college athletes getting paid but this NIL thing seems so out of control Who handles the money ? who determines who gets paid and how much? Do the athletes have someone representing them? Outside of the basketball players I wouldn't give money to any other athletes.

[XUGRAD80]

That's one of the biggest problems I have with this.

Who wrote this? Is it someone credible or just a fan? Don't have specific numbers but 3-3.5 mil will get it done? It all seems extremely shady to me.

Very Credible. Came from a pay site that we all know and love. Just the last part of an article that is an update on Xavier recruiting. Since it is a pay site I’m not going to share the whole article but I didn’t think it would hurt to share this little tidbit.

[Xville]

Very Credible. Came from a pay site that we all know and love. Just the last part of an article that is an update on Xavier recruiting. Since it is a pay site I’m not going to share the whole article but I didn’t think it would hurt to share this little tidbit.

ok cool understood. Appreciate the share!

[Masterofreality]

Mods, please approve XUFinal2 so he can post on here, answer questions and give more details.
He is credible.

[drudy23]

“There's been an increased emphasis over the last seven-plus months on raising NIL funds. XU's collective has gone public and reached out to the fanbase to crowdsource donations after operating in silence for the last two years. No one is going to share specific numbers when it comes to NIL funds. I've been told the efforts have helped but there is still a sizeable gap between XU and the Big East programs with the biggest war chests (Villanova & St. John's). I believe somewhere in the neighborhood of $3-3.5 million would get a team to the top of the conference in NIL spending.”

From an online basketball recruiting site. I’m just going to leave this here and let people think about it.

I don't have a problem with not being transparent about what each player is getting, but there needs to be more info.

Of that $3.5M, what is being crowdsourced vs. what is being done by the university to raise funds? If they are looking for $500k from crowdsourcing (with a matching donation from a whale) and the NIL team is working to raise the other $2.5M, I'm probably ok with that.

I think most fans just want to feel like the university is taking on the lionshare of the work, and the fans can supplement if they feel so inclined. I'd have a huge issue if all of this was an expectation of the fans for the crowdsourcing.

Still not sure I know the answer to that, but I'd find it pretty surprising if the school didn't have a team out collecting money for this from bigwigs, sponsors, corporations and other fundraising events.

[XUGRAD80]

The Xavier Athletics site lists an Associate Athletics Director for Development and an All for One Fund Coordinator. I’m sure that they, and the people that work for them, are doing exactly that. The NIL 2% fund is in addition to what they have been doing for years.

[Final4]

The Xavier Athletics site lists an Associate Athletics Director for Development and an All for One Fund Coordinator. I’m sure that they, and the people that work for them, are doing exactly that. The NIL 2% fund is in addition to what they have been doing for years.

I don't think this is right and I posted something similar in another thread. The university is not soliciting $$$ to fund NIL's. Final2percent.com is a 501c3 and is not affiliated with Xavier University. It clearly states that on their webpage. While I suspect the transactions (transfer of $$$ to players) occur in all types of make and manner, the money they receive comes from a third party and not the university.

[A Fan]

I don't think this is right and I posted something similar in another thread. The university is not soliciting $$$ to fund NIL's. Final2percent.com is a 501c3 and is not affiliated with Xavier University. It clearly states that on their webpage. While I suspect the transactions (transfer of $$$ to players) occur in all types of make and manner, the money they receive comes from a third party and not the university.
Correct . If the University were fundraising for the collective which is paying the players that would be a violation. Some have asked why the Collective does not seeks corporate sponsorships for the players. Again it is a non profit and cannot engage in commercial activites. There is nothing to prevent the university to have another for profit collective to do those things. But no contributions would be tax deductible as a charitable deduction as is now the case for donors but corporations could expense the contribution as a marketing expense. .

[A Fan]

“There's been an increased emphasis over the last seven-plus months on raising NIL funds. XU's collective has gone public and reached out to the fanbase to crowdsource donations after operating in silence for the last two years. No one is going to share specific numbers when it comes to NIL funds. I've been told the efforts have helped but there is still a sizeable gap between XU and the Big East programs with the biggest war chests (Villanova & St. John's). I believe somewhere in the neighborhood of $3-3.5 million would get a team to the top of the conference in NIL spending.”

From an online basketball recruiting site. I’m just going to leave this here and let people think about it.

If $ 3M in and out each year is the standard I can’t imagine The Final2% would be near that. That requires XU’s large donors to make a large annual commitment. Keep in mind those donors are being asked to fund the new medical school and its operating losses until it breaks even.

[GoMuskies]

As a taxpayer, I think it's ridiculous that anyone gets a tax deduction for giving to an NIL collective. These are essentially gifts, and generally people giving large gifts pay gift tax. This is obviously the exact opposite of that, and it doesn't make sense to me why they would get that treatment.

[XUGRAD80]

I don't think this is right and I posted something similar in another thread. The university is not soliciting $$$ to fund NIL's. Final2percent.com is a 501c3 and is not affiliated with Xavier University. It clearly states that on their webpage. While I suspect the transactions (transfer of $$$ to players) occur in all types of make and manner, the money they receive comes from a third party and not the university.

I was trying to point out that the university does have people soliciting money for the athletics department, not that they are soliciting for the 2% fund. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear. That was in response to people that feel that the 2% fund should be funded by companies and run by the school. As I stated before, the University has been working hard for many years to get corporate support for the athletics department. The final 2% fund is over and above those efforts, it’s not designed to replace those efforts.

[A Fan]

It is obviously an artifice. The collective asks the player to spend two hours at the boys club shooting baskets with the kids and pays him $ 10 K. Since the boys and girls club is also a 501 (c) (3) organization the collective and the player is engaged in a non commercial activity and therefore the collective maintains its non profit status. Some experts question whether the IRS will disqualify these non profit collectives since it is using the tax code to pay athletes to attend and participate in athletics and the “ Charitable Work” is incidental to that purpose. To avoid that problem the large schools have for profit collectives which solicit business to do promotional deals with their athletes. I assume Xavier felt that their collective could raise more money by offering a tax deductible collective but nothing prevents them having both.

[MHettel]

It is obviously an artifice. The collective asks the player to spend two hours at the boys club shooting baskets with the kids and pays him $ 10 K. Since the boys and girls club is also a 501 (c) (3) organization the collective and the player is engaged in a non commercial activity and therefore the collective maintains its non profit status. Some experts question whether the IRS will disqualify these non profit collectives since it is using the tax code to pay athletes to attend and participate in athletics and the “ Charitable Work” is incidental to that purpose. To avoid that problem the large schools have for profit collectives which solicit business to do promotional deals with their athletes. I assume Xavier felt that their collective could raise more money by offering a tax deductible collective but nothing prevents them having both.

Sweet. Now we have to have a tax attorney on staff for the BBall team.

Thank god we dicided that a free education, tons of exposure and free drinks for life wasnt enough to get these teenagers to play a game that they love.

[xudash]

Sweet. Now we have to have a tax attorney on staff for the BBall team.

Thank god we dicided that a free education, tons of exposure and free drinks for life wasnt enough to get these teenagers to play a game that they love.

Public reps. That provided a good chuckle.

[XUGRAD80]

Sweet. Now we have to have a tax attorney on staff for the BBall team.

Thank god we dicided that a free education, tons of exposure and free drinks for life wasnt enough to get these teenagers to play a game that they love.

‘We’ didn’t decide that.. The court did when they ruled in favor of the players that sued. Once the court decided that the players should have the right to get paid for something that the universities had been making money off of, it was all bets are off. Now, wether we like it or not, it’s the law of the land and if X wants to compete at the highest level of college BB, and we fans want them to, we have to play by the current rules. We can bemoan that it’s no longer the way it was, but it doesn’t matter how much we wish for the ‘good old days’ they aren’t coming back again. It’s put up or shut up time in the Nati. If we want X to be able to compete on somewhat equal footing with the rest of the BE, and the other top conferences/teams in the country, we fans are going to have to step up and HELP to make that happen. No amount of handwringing and complaining is going to change the system back to where a scholarship was all anyone could legally get. We can HOPE that the NCAA will find a way to bring some control back and create some kind of parity, but IMO that’s false hope. The NCAA president basically admitted that when he proposed that a new division be created where the schools in that division themselves would decide the rules and the NCAA would administer the rest of the colleges. Don’t rely on the courts or congress either to ‘fix’ it. They NCAA doesn’t have a very good record when it comes to recent court cases, does it? And no one on congress is going to touch this with a 50 ft pole during an election year. The universities, with the backing of the NCAA, the AAU, and IOC, have been pushing the athletes around for decades. Dictating who can get what and basically choosing winners and losers along the way. This goes far beyond just college basketball and football and involves thousands of college athletes, most of whom the public only hears about during an Olympic year. (I think the cute little gymnast down at LSU actually makes more money through her NIL than any other college athlete.) there is no way that the NIL is going away and if anything, it’s going to expand. There is going to be direct payments to college athletes as some schools, perhaps a separate division for certain sports….football and basketball…will be the answer. But even in the schools not in that division, the NIL is here to stay.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

The universities, with the backing of the NCAA, the AAU, and IOC, have been pushing the athletes around for decades. Dictating who can get what and basically choosing winners and losers along the way. This goes far beyond just college basketball and football and involves thousands of college athletes, most of whom the public only hears about during an Olympic year. (I think the cute little gymnast down at LSU actually makes more money through her NIL than any other college athlete.) there is no way that the NIL is going away and if anything, it’s going to expand. There is going to be direct payments to college athletes as some schools, perhaps a separate division for certain sports….football and basketball…will be the answer. But even in the schools not in that division, the NIL is here to stay.

It isn't going away, no kidding? There is no legal justification for not compensating the athletes but please save the college athlete as a "victim" speech. I'm not buying it. Nor am I giving a penny to NIL. I already pay Xavier plenty for basketball tickets. And, BTW, that cute little gymnast down at LSU makes $3.0 million annually and it has absolutely nothing to do with her ability as a college gymnast.

[XUGRAD80]

It isn't going away, no kidding? There is no legal justification for not compensating the athletes but please save the college athlete as a "victim" speech. I'm not buying it. Nor am I giving a penny to NIL. I already pay Xavier plenty for basketball tickets. And, BTW, that cute little gymnast down at LSU makes $3.0 million annually and it has absolutely nothing to do with her ability as a college gymnast.

You know nothing about the world of international “amateur” athletics if you don’t understand that the past NCAA regulations have placed college enrolled American athletes at a serious disadvantage for decades. Stop thinking just about D1 basketball and football scholarship athletes. These rules affect thousands more college student-athletes than play those sports. As for that gymnast, 5 years ago she wouldn’t have been able to make a dime as a college athlete and still keep her eligibility, yet her university would…..and it didn’t matter if she was on scholarship or not!

Here’s a true story……When Steve Alford was at Indiana University he appeared in a calendar that a sorority had put together to sell for charity. He didn’t make a dime on the calendar or for his appearance. The calendar was sold for charity by the sorority. Didn’t matter to the NCAA. He had done something that raised money for someone outside of the University. He was suspended by the NCAA for (if I remember the number correctly) 2 games.

Here’s another…..as a non scholarship athlete at Xavier in the 1970’s (there were no scholarships at X for my sport) I would have lost my NCAA eligibility for accepting payment for appearing at a clinic during the summers put on for high school athletes. I had to pay my own way. I couldn’t even get a free meal out of it. I was an unpaid “camp counselor” at a weeklong camp put on at Xavier by a coach from Oklahoma. I got the privilege of setting up and tearing down the equipment and making sure the high school kids attending didn’t get into trouble. They stayed in the dorms at night. I went home and drove back the next day….on my own gas. The University got money out of it for the program. I lost a few days of work at my summer job.

I could go on and on and I’m sure that virtually 99% of college athletes could tell similar stories. Don’t get me wrong. I cherish each and every minute that I got to be a member of an intercollegiate team at X. I wouldn’t trade those days for anything and would give almost anything just to experience one more day like those. I do not consider myself a victim. BUT…..people need to realize that these NIL rules and programs are really going to have their most important impact on the people in the non-revenue sports, where only a small portion of the athletes are on scholarship. The Xavier NIL isn’t set up in a way that donors can designate which sports their donations are going to, but other schools have set it up that way. Xavier should too.

[GoMuskies]

Yes, if there's anyone in this world I feel bad for it's those poor college athletes on full scholarships.

[GoMuskies]

By the way, that gymnast isn't even particularly good. Just hot.

[XUGRAD80]

Yes, if there's anyone in this world I feel bad for it's those poor college athletes on full scholarships.

What about the other 99% of college athletes?

[GoMuskies]

NIL isn't going to help them.

[Xville]

NIL isn't going to help them.

Correct. While I’m for nil, it only helps basketball, football and in some cases, baseball and volleyball. It does little for the “Olympic sports” athlete unless in the case of dunne where she’s really hot. I guess it helps a little in that they can get a job during college now, right and maybe an apparel sponsorship or something?

[XUGRAD80]

NIL isn't going to help them.

Why do you say that? You think that all of the money raised in NIL’s will only go to the top 1%? If so, you don’t understand the rules, and the opportunities that this program will open up to ALL athletes in the future. Fortunately there are athletes (such as the gymnast) who have taken advantage of the program and are willing to share their methods with others. It will be up to the athletes in many cases to take the initiative and do a little work to take advantage of the opportunities, but it is there for everyone and not just the top athletes.

In addtion, as is happening at the University of Miami, Fla., there will be some schools were every athlete receives something in the way of monetary support….legally.

[Xville]

Why do you say that? You think that all of the money raised in NIL’s will only go to the top 1%? If so, you don’t understand the rules, and the opportunities that this program will open up to ALL athletes in the future. Fortunately there are athletes (such as the gymnast) who have taken advantage of the program and are willing to share their methods with others. It will be up to the athletes in many cases to take the initiative and do a little work to take advantage of the opportunities, but it is there for everyone and not just the top athletes.

In addtion, as is happening at the University of Miami, Fla., there will be some schools were every athlete receives something in the way of monetary support….legally.

“Share their methods”——-in other words, be a hot girl

[XUGRAD80]

https://time.com/6284880/sam-hurley-track-and-field-tiktok-nil-texas/

I never even heard of this guy and doubt anyone here has. But yet he made $1,000,000 via the NIL as a HIGH JUMPER.

From the article……. According to Opendorse, a company that connects athletes with businesses, some 90,000 college athletes have made money on its platform. It expects athletes to have earned more than $100 million in NIL by the end of 2023.

[Xville]

https://time.com/6284880/sam-hurley-track-and-field-tiktok-nil-texas/

I never even heard of this guy and doubt anyone here has. But yet he made $1,000,000 via the NIL as a HIGH JUMPER.

From the article……. According to Opendorse, a company that connects athletes with businesses, some 90,000 college athletes have made money on its platform. It expects athletes to have earned more than $100 million in NIL by the end of 2023.

He’s an attractive male, has nothing to do with his sport, which I mean good for him, but most can’t just magically be attractive.

[XUGRAD80]

He’s an attractive male, has nothing to do with his sport, which I mean good for him, but most can’t just magically be attractive.

Yeah I’m sure that the other 89,999 are all attractive people, right? You didn’t read the article did you?


Let’s see…

1st it was…..NIL isn’t going to help Olympic Sports athletes. So I point out a couple of examples that have made it work for them. So you come back with, but she’s hot and he’s attractive, so that doesn’t count because not everyone is attractive. What’s next? But not everyone can be an influencer? Not everyone has internet skills?

Well, duh! Not everyone is going to be as successful as the top earners. Not everyone has the same gifts and talents. And not everyone is going to put in the work, take the same chances, or be as creative as some will be.

The point isn’t that every college athlete is going to make millions from a NIL. The point is that everyone has an opportunity to do so! An opportunity that they didn’t have before because of the past. NCAA rules. The point is that no matter what the sport that EVERY college athlete has an opportunity to make money because of their status as an athlete that would have in the past prevented them from being eligible to compete on the intercollegiate level. It IS going to give this opportunity to all no matter the sport. Obviously the top football and basketball players have the biggest opportunity. But think what even a couple of thousand dollars a year would have meant to you when you were in college, or 10-20K a year would mean for kids today.

[Xville]

Yeah I’m sure that the other 89,999 are all attractive people, right? You didn’t read the article did you?

Like I said maybe people are getting a little something which is nice but most aren’t going to even cover the amount of a year of school. I mean good for them, but that dude is making a mil and he’s in the top 25 otherwise known as the top 1%.

How many you wanna bet of that 90k are basketball, football and in some cases baseball and volleyball players?

You said nil is helping all these Olympic athletes, I dunno about that.

I never said it wouldn’t help at all, I said it would help little so stop putting words in my mouth.

[nuts4xu]

My takeaway from this thread:

Good looking people have an advantage in all walks of life, including NIL opportunities.

[XUGRAD80]

Like I said I’m sure everyone is getting a little something which is nice but most aren’t going to even cover the amount of a year of school. I mean good for them, but that dude is making a mil and he’s in the top 25 otherwise known as the top 1%.

And this is only the 2nd year that the program has been in existence. Who really knows what the future may hold in the way of earnings potential.

I’m old enough that I remember when a Pete Rose became the first $100K a year ‘singles hitter’ and my parents and there friends said that nobody was warts that kind of money. When the 1st free agents made $1 Million a year they almost died. The article (from TIME magazine by the way) says that being an influencer is expected to be a $21 BILLION dollar a year industry in the near future. A couple of years ago I’d never event heard of an “influencer”. There’s really no telling what the NIL will produce in the near future.

[Xville]

And this is only the 2nd year that the program has been in existence. Who really knows what the future may hold in the way of earnings potential.

I’m old enough that I remember when a Pete Rose became the first $100K a year ‘singles hitter’ and my parents and there friends said that nobody was warts that kind of money. When the 1st free agents made $1 Million a year they almost died. The article (from TIME magazine by the way) says that being an influencer is expected to be a $21 BILLION dollar a year industry in the near future. A couple of years ago I’d never event heard of an “influencer”. There’s really no telling what the NIL will produce in the near future.

Yes hot people can now make money. How many ugly influencers have you heard of? What I’m saying is I don’t think nil is going to do what you think it’s going to do or is doing.


I also think social media is a horrible thing for society at large but that’s another discussion.

[XUGRAD80]

Like I said maybe people are getting a little something which is nice but most aren’t going to even cover the amount of a year of school. I mean good for them, but that dude is making a mil and he’s in the top 25 otherwise known as the top 1%.

How many you wanna bet of that 90k are basketball, football and in some cases baseball and volleyball players?

You said nil is helping all these Olympic athletes, I dunno about that.

I never said it wouldn’t help at all, I said it would help little so stop putting words in my mouth.

I never said that it WAS helping all the Olympic Sports..…I said that it has the POTENTIAL to. You (and others) said it wouldn’t, that it would only help Basketball and Football players. But you’re wrong. And the numbers back me up. As a matter of fact, according to the reported numbers, BASEBALL is ahead of football and golf and tennis round out the rest of top 5 earners by sport.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/sports/one-year-of-nil-how-much-have-athletes-made/3765040/

And overall it is only helping a little for everyone at this point. But once again I point out that this is just the beginning.

[XUGRAD80]

I also think social media is a horrible thing for society at large but that’s another discussion.

Posted on a social media site…….how ironic. LOL

[Xville]

I never said that it WAS helping all the Olympic Sports..…I said that it has the POTENTIAL to. You (and others) said it wouldn’t, that it would only help Basketball and Football players. But you’re wrong. And the numbers back me up. As a matter of fact, according to the reported numbers, BASEBALL is ahead of football and golf and tennis round out the rest of top 5 earners by sport.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/sports/one-year-of-nil-how-much-have-athletes-made/3765040/

And overall it is only helping a little for everyone at this point. But once again I point out that this is just the beginning.

Where does it say anything about tennis and whee does it say football is ahead of baseball! I also said in some cases baseball players could make money

Are you talking about specific earners in the top 5?

[Xville]

Posted on a social media site…….how ironic. LOL

Fair but I don’t think of chatboards as social media. Tiktok, Facebook, Twitter etc is what I am referring to.

[noteggs]

My takeaway from this thread:

Good looking people have an advantage in all walks of life, including NIL opportunities.

Think you pretty much nailed it!

[A Fan]

Mods, please approve XUFinal2 so he can post on here, answer questions and give more details.
He is credible.
I don’t understand why the Mods would not let him post. But beyond that I do t understand why the whole Final2% is so shrouded in mystery. They want people to contribute but the website does not even tell us who is the Director. You suggested we do a blind email to the site and perhaps get an answer from somebody. Name one tax code approved Charity that operates in such opaque darkness. Give money? To whom?

[XUGRAD80]

Where does it say anything about tennis and whee does it say football is ahead of baseball! I also said in some cases baseball players could make money

Are you talking about specific earners in the top 5?

Sorry, I referenced the wrong article. Read this one… https://fanarch.com/blogs/fan-arch/what-sports-get-the-most-nil-deals.

Although the first article does say:

“When it comes to total NIL activities, Opendorse says football (29.3%) is the leader, then baseball (8%), men’s basketball (7.6%), women’s track and field (5.6%) and women’s volleyball (5.5%).”

[Final4]

Don't understand the math and I suspect that there are some critical details that were omitted. What I found interesting was the fact that a million dollars were placed into a separate fund that players could draw from after graduation. So "NIL dollars" are available to FORMER college athletes?

https://www.journal-news.com/sports/chipotle-ceo-wife-offer-assist-to-miami-university-mens-basketball/JLS4DZV24RGLFJSP2JY6VNTZDI/

[XUFinal2]

Sorry about delay in response, thanks to Master and mods for the setup.

I help with the Final 2%. Those of us with Final 2, like everybody here, has a strong passion about Xavier, the student athletes and the basketball program. We are trying to help make sure Xavier’s best days are ahead. To an earlier question, we are volunteers and unpaid.

NIL is an area that we all know has rapidly changed the collegiate landscape. Final 2% is trying to help X keep up with its peers in this space. I realize some of you don’t believe student athletes should be compensated, and I respect your decision. That said, would ask you to consider supporting our efforts socially on twitter/IG and share us with friends. Any help is valued and needed.

For those open to the idea, and understanding compensating athletes is not going away, we do need and are asking for more consideration from our fans. X has been able to do tremendous things with around 2700 supporters to AFO. Those numbers prove that dollar for dollar, X competes with anybody. It’s been a hell of a story on what that support built and where it got X. I realize many of you here played such a big part in that. For this next phase of CBB with NIL, we are asking more fans to consider engaging in smaller ways to continue this trajectory.
An internet search can show how other Big East NIL collectives are trying to carve out their edge in this area. For example, PC’s collective is asking for 400 fans to give 100 monthly to add 480k to their collective.

At Final2percent, fans can give one time or make a monthly contribution to support our student athletes through community involvement. We are trying not to break your budget, while giving you some cool perks in return. Monthly levels are $10, $25, $50, $100 and $250. More perks come with greater support, however everyone has chances to win great prizes by signing up(like X team merch, tickets, unique experiences). This is a work in progress as we launched in November. No other NIL is offering accessing and perks to the program like us. Check us out:

https://www.final2percent.com

Also, please don’t discount the power of smaller support. The more of our fans that can say yes to helping out a little more, will make a major difference. Every dollar counts. Every fan able to join helps. Right now, we have a 500k matching gift, so if you want to join us, you’ll double your impact immediately.

Thank you again for the consideration.

[XUGRAD80]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/39289391/ncaa-penalizes-florida-state-football-nil-rule-violations

I think that this is a very interesting development in the ongoing story of the NIL and how it will affect college sports. It’s the first time that the NCAA has taken this action related to NIL infractions. The most interesting line in the article IMO is this…..

“NCAA rules prohibit boosters from using the promise of NIL deals as an incentive to try and convince a prospect to attend or transfer to a particular school.”

I guess that’s why the schools are setting up NIL programs that they will control and manage. Boosters can fund the programs but can’t deal directly with the athletes? Somehow I don’t see that holding up in court if challenged. Isn’t that restraint of employment opportunity?

Possibly the problem here is that an assistant coach drove the prospect to a meeting with the booster? Would it have been OK if the prospect had traveled to the meeting by themselves? Or if the money had been offered by a school managed NIL (even though it was supported by the booster’s money) and not directly by the booster?

Man oh man. I’m so glad that I’m not a compliance officer at an NCAA school and have to try and figure out what can and cannot be done.

[A Fan]

[QUOTE=XUGRAD80;774061]https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/39289391/ncaa-penalizes-florida-state-football-nil-rule-violations

“ i think that this is a very interesting development in the ongoing story of the NIL and how it will affect college sports. It’s the first time that the NCAA has taken this action related to NIL infractions. The most interesting line in the article IMO is this…..

“NCAA rules prohibit boosters from using the promise of NIL deals as an incentive to try and convince a prospect to attend or transfer to a particular school.”

I guess that’s why the schools are setting up NIL programs that they will control and manage. Boosters can fund the programs but can’t deal directly with the athletes? Somehow I don’t see that holding up in court if challenged. Isn’t that restraint of employment opportunity?

Possibly the problem here is that an assistant coach drove the prospect to a meeting with the booster? Would it have been OK if the prospect had traveled to the meeting by themselves? Or if the money had been offered by a school managed NIL (even though it was supported by the booster’s money) and not directly by the booster? “

Now that a representative of the Final2% is a member of this forum they can answer your questions more authoritatively than I . But until they opine I will. The rules are that no one..booster or collective can promise compensation to a non matriculated prospect. In its purest form the coach recruits the player and no one on behalf of the university talks money. The most anyone can say is “we have a collective and you will have the opportunity to speak with them post enrollment.”. So FSU stepped right into it . My guess other schools are more discrete. Example. A player enters the portal. Coach contacts him. Player says I would like to play for you all things being equal. Another school has indirectly indicated my NIH value is $ 100 K per year. The coach says I can’t talk money but I do know some our players who don’t have your great resume are getting $ 100 K. Nothing has been promised. The collective does not talk to the prospect. The student enrolls. He has taped the conservation with the coach. He, after enrolling talks to the collective. If they offer less than $100 K I am sure once informed they will give $100 K.

[XUFinal2]

Morning all,

A win sure felt great yesterday…

For anyone interested in going to Tuesday’s game, we are giving away 5 court side seats, next to XU’s bench (they are as good as they sound location wise). A set of two tickets and three tickets are going to be given out. All you need to do is donate $25 ($23 for Trey’s point total yesterday and $2 for Final 2%) for a chance to win. Or if you signup for a monthly membership, you immediately get 2x the chances to win. Deadline for entry is Monday at 9pm. A generous supporter donated these to try helping the cause. With this short of a window for the raffle, anyone that gives is going to have a decent chance to win. Thanks

https://www.final2percent.com

[SteveSpivery]

I do not see anything about it on the site.

[XUFinal2]

Thanks, it’s on our Instagram and Twitter/X pages. Our tech support is back on Tuesday so the info isn’t on the site. If interested, you signup or do a one time donation on the site.

https://x.com/final2percent/status/1746369997591515600?s=46&t=SXWimy4NuhI3_xXdvQ9PNg

2x the chance if you signup for just $10 a month, 3x for $25 or higher.

Let’s Go X!

[XUGRAD80]

Thanks, it’s on our Instagram and Twitter/X pages. Our tech support is back on Tuesday so the info isn’t on the site. If interested, you signup or do a one time donation on the site.

https://x.com/final2percent/status/1746369997591515600?s=46&t=SXWimy4NuhI3_xXdvQ9PNg

2x the chance if you signup for just $10 a month, 3x for $25 or higher.

Let’s Go X!

I signed up for a monthly last week…..any chance I’m in the drawing? :look:

[XUFinal2]

Yes! Thanks for joining up, very much appreciate it! We aren’t penalizing anyone that just joined on!

[atljar]

When will the winner be drawn?

[XUFinal2]

We are closing the entries down at 9pm ET tonight, and will draw the winners right after. We should have another opportunity like this later in the season too

[Masterofreality]

I’m just gonna point something out here.
Our entire front line scored 10 points vs Creighton yesterday.
Forward Graham Ike himself scored 23 yesterday for Gonzaga in their upset AT Kentucky.
We had Graham Ike locked and loaded to come to X, until….
Gonzaga outbid Xavier on an NiL offer.
Think about that. A school in a lesser conference with a 4,000 seat arena outbid a Big East Team that sells out 10,250 every game. How?

Because Xavier’s NIL support is woefully weak. And don’t blame the school or its administrators. There are lines that the NCAA has drawn that limits school involvement in NIL. The school SUPPORTERS have to be the drivers.

Hence “The Final 2%.”

I sat in a confab yesterday regarding this. Do you know that the All For One fund only has 2,700 total donors? That out of an every game crowd of 10,000.
I have no knowledge how many Final 2% participants there are but it is much less than that.
People, you can get involved with this thing on Final 2% for only $5-$10 a month. Probably the same as some people spend on Starbucks coffee a day. Xavier’s desired goal is get to an annual funding for NIL of $3 million/year. It’s achievable, but more must get involved.
$10/month is $120/year. Multiply $120/year by 10,000 Cintas fans. That will generate $1.2 million a year. Many fans will give much more.

We can get there and The Final 2% is 100% Legit as verified by Asst. AD Seth Breitenstein.

LETS GO!!!

[zippin']

My take on this whole NIL thing is that I think X will still be about where they've always been in the CBB scene. Do the big state schools have a larger alumni base to pull money from? Obviously, but many of those big state schools also prioritize football WAY more than basketball. Ohio State, for example, will be spending a significant amount of their NIL $s on football recruits, not basketball recruits. Sure there are schools like Kansas and Duke, but those schools were always better than X and will continue to be. In the end, I think NIL just allows everything to be transparent. The good schools will remain good, the usual suspects will still get all the good recruits, and Xavier will be as successful as they've always been. People talk about NIL like Ohio State or Alabama will suddenly start caring about basketball.

[Xville]

My take on this whole NIL thing is that I think X will still be about where they've always been in the CBB scene. Do the big state schools have a larger alumni base to pull money from? Obviously, but many of those big state schools also prioritize football WAY more than basketball. Ohio State, for example, will be spending a significant amount of their NIL $s on football recruits, not basketball recruits. Sure there are schools like Kansas and Duke, but those schools were always better than X and will continue to be. In the end, I think NIL just allows everything to be transparent. The good schools will remain good, the usual suspects will still get all the good recruits, and Xavier will be as successful as they've always been. People talk about NIL like Ohio State or Alabama will suddenly start caring about basketball.

Agreed and frankly I don’t think nil is going to be around for that long. I think five years max and schools will be paying instead of this nonsense collective stuff. Nil is not a sustainable model.

Not telling people how to spend their money, that’s up to their own personal choice, but I have two kids to raise that are more important to give my five dollars a month to than a college basketball player no matter how much I like some of them

[xudash]

It’s important. It is what it is. Please consider donating - even a little - if you can.

[drudy23]

Agreed and frankly I don’t think nil is going to be around for that long. I think five years max and schools will be paying instead of this nonsense collective stuff. Nil is not a sustainable model.

Not telling people how to spend their money, that’s up to their own personal choice, but I have two kids to raise that are more important to give my five dollars a month to than a college basketball player no matter how much I like some of them

This is where I am. It's very hard for me to wrap my head around giving money to buy players. I realize it's a new day, but it just feels odd.

[Xville]

It’s important. It is what it is. Please consider donating - even a little - if you can.

I’m sorry but what’s “important” about it? There’s nothing important about paying a college basketball player. If Xavier basketball starts not doing well because x can’t sustain enough nil money, I’ll live and find something else to do.

[Masterofreality]

This is where I am. It's very hard for me to wrap my head around giving money to buy players. I realize it's a new day, but it just feels odd.

Welp.
And I’m not jumping on you Drudes, but if people don’t support, our beloved school and basketball program will be worse off.
And some people on here who say they don’t care, and will find something else to do if Xavier goes bad, I suppose they’ll have lots of free time since they won’t care about posting on a message board either- except to be a cretin troll, which they are already.

[X-band '01]

Even Power 5 programs aren't all swimming in money when it comes to NIL (and I don't mean simply Oregon State, Washington, etc.). NIL might be the difference between a Sweet 16/Elite 8 Team and a Final 4 team, but I'm not buying the notion that Xavier will be relegated to permanent Travis Steele-like status without it.

And I'm saying this as someone who is willing to make an annual $1000 AFO Donation that comes with my current seat at the Cintas Center. I'm also happy to support other Olympic sports as well (cheap plug - baseball season tickets are only $53 and they will be playing major programs this year at home). I simply don't have the coin to be jumping into NIL right now.

[Xville]

Even Power 5 programs aren't all swimming in money when it comes to NIL (and I don't mean simply Oregon State, Washington, etc.). NIL might be the difference between a Sweet 16/Elite 8 Team and a Final 4 team, but I'm not buying the notion that Xavier will be relegated to permanent Travis Steele-like status without it.

And I'm saying this as someone who is willing to make an annual $1000 AFO Donation that comes with my current seat at the Cintas Center. I'm also happy to support other Olympic sports as well (cheap plug - baseball season tickets are only $53 and they will be playing major programs this year at home). I simply don't have the coin to be jumping into NIL right now.

I agree band.

Mor though doesn’t understand different perspectives.

[drudy23]

Do you know that the All For One fund only has 2,700 total donors? That out of an every game crowd of 10,000.


LETS GO!!!

Does this include season ticket holders? Don't we automatically give as part of that?

[drudy23]

Welp.
And I’m not jumping on you Drudes, but if people don’t support, our beloved school and basketball program will be worse off.
And some people on here who say they don’t care, and will find something else to do if Xavier goes bad, I suppose they’ll have lots of free time since they won’t care about posting on a message board either- except to be a cretin troll, which they are already.

Like I mentioned, I understand it's a new day, but it's a tough sell for me, especially with the cost of donations and season tickets.

Better "perks" for doing it may change my mind. I don't care about meeting players or coaches - get me in a suite for a game or give me preferential treatment for away and post-season tickets.

[xudash]

Agreed and frankly I don’t think nil is going to be around for that long. I think five years max and schools will be paying instead of this nonsense collective stuff. Nil is not a sustainable model.

Not telling people how to spend their money, that’s up to their own personal choice, but I have two kids to raise that are more important to give my five dollars a month to than a college basketball player no matter how much I like some of them

I respect your priorities. And you obviously have them set the right way.

I actually agree with you that NIL will evolve in a material way, even possibly to the point of not being around at all as you mentioned.

BUT

We're in the here and now. NIL is something that is going to have to be dealt with for next year, for the year after that and then who knows. We can't ignore it and simply hope that the Xavier program treads water somehow.

This is what it has come to - collegiate sports navigating their way to bushels of money through media agreements and internal marketing for decades now, with some, if not most college administrators understanding the marketing value of collegiate sports as a school's "front door/porch". It's a race for survival at the highest level now. Couple that with what is going on demographically in higher education and anyone with a brain can see why it is important for any school to remain both VISIBLE and ATTRACTIVE to potential recruits and students.

Let's hope that we are in an interim phase and that NIL does go away as it presently exists in Wild West Mode. Let's manage as best we can while it still exists so as to maintain and possibly improve our program.

I'll net it out for you when it comes to what I hope for: NIL goes away and schools are allowed to pay athletes directly, without having to pay every athlete due to some f'ed up Title IX restrictions, etc. (i.e. we keep the outflow focused on where the inflow comes from for the most part: men's hoops) or NCAA President policy that requires $30k for each athlete to be paid held in some form of escrow arrangement.

Then, if Xavier can "bring it inside", let's hope that coincides with a material bump in our media agreement and with that hopefully running for another decade. We don't have to pay for football. Our major capital improvements at the Cintas Center have been accomplished. We should have some room to manage a compensated roster construction process at that point.

That's my hope.

Should these athletes share in the money that is being generated? Most people will say yes. I'm old school, but even I say yes, given that I'm a capitalist and given the amounts of money that have become involved. Perhaps it has to do with a concept of fairness and balance. On that note, for the life of me, I can't imagine compensating a football or basketball coach beyond $5mm per year. Has Kirby Smart brought value to UGA? No doubt. Sabin to Bama? Of course. But it gets back to Bud Fox's question to Gordon Gecko: "How many yachts can you ski behind?"

At any rate and at the end of the day, we have watched the collegiate athletics scale continue to slide closer to professional status and away from amateur status. The kids still get to wrap themselves in a brand's uniform. We may simply not get to see a kid go from freshman year to senior year very frequently anymore, unless he is the equivalent of a pro team's franchise player, albeit a 4-year max term player.

[X-band '01]

Does this include season ticket holders? Don't we automatically give as part of that?

Yes and no. Keep in mind that many donors purchase multiple seats - I'm in a minority that purchase single seats. What is interesting is trying to figure out how many AFO donors exist that aren't season ticket holders.

[xudash]

One last observation that I'll put here. I didn't have the opportunity to watch the game live and I waited until I got home to find out what had happened. I was really pumped and hopeful for a "W" given what that would have meant for our resume moving down the road.

So, I almost blew the recording off the DVR immediately, but then I remembered it was on Big Fox and I decided to see how it all looked at the beginning of the telecast.

I write this with pure bias, knowing that I am right: the Cintas Center is a fabulous facility and provides an amazing home court advantage. The opening scene with the student section, the cameras panning around the facility, and Tim Brando mentioning how much "these two midwestern powers" have brought to the Big East really made my proud.

Then I watched us score the first four points. Then I deleted it and have moved to today with that loss in the rearview mirror and the Super Bowl coming up.

Sean comes back and takes us to the S16.

We have a discombobulated roster this year and so we're experiencing this year.

NIL issues notwithstanding, I love this program and its potential for moving forward.

[drudy23]

One last observation that I'll put here. I didn't have the opportunity to watch the game live and I waited until I got home to find out what had happened. I was really pumped and hopeful for a "W" given what that would have meant for our resume moving down the road.

So, I almost blew the recording off the DVR immediately, but then I remembered it was on Big Fox and I decided to see how it all looked at the beginning of the telecast.

I write this with pure bias, knowing that I am right: the Cintas Center is a fabulous facility and provides an amazing home court advantage. The opening scene with the student section, the cameras panning around the facility, and Tim Brando mentioning how much "these two midwestern powers" have brought to the Big East really made my proud.

Then I watched us score the first four points. Then I deleted it and have moved to today with that loss in the rearview mirror and the Super Bowl coming up.

Sean comes back and takes us to the S16.

We have a discombobulated roster this year and so we're experiencing this year.

NIL issues notwithstanding, I love this program and its potential for moving forward.

The first 5-6 minutes really had that "it's going to be our day" feel. It was electric. Then Kalkbrenner showed up.

[bjf123]

Yes and no. Keep in mind that many donors purchase multiple seats - I'm in a minority that purchase single seats. What is interesting is trying to figure out how many AFO donors exist that aren't season ticket holders.

Agreed. Most are probably 2 or 4 seats, so 2700 sounds about right for the number of season tickets sold. Isn’t it something like 8,000+? After that, there probably aren’t a lot of donors to the AFO Fund.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[STL_XUfan]

I picked up my signed bourbon bottle today supporting Xavier NIlL. Why not combine my favorite Vice with helping out X.

[zippin']

Schools directly paying players will likely result in the closure of a very large number of athletic departments.

[Masterofreality]

Does this include season ticket holders? Don't we automatically give as part of that?

Just to put one more number and emphasize how lacking support from *some Sectors are. 2,700 AFO donors is 4% of all living Xavier alumni.
Almost shocking. I’m sure that many alums donate in other ways, but Basketball is the thing that draws eyeballs, publicity and student applications more than anything else.

[A Fan]

I am confused when one says that NIL’s will go away and the schools will just have to pay players …the inference being that will be a better model for Xavier Mens Basketball. Paying players comes through collective bargaining which the National Labor Relations Board General Counsel has recommended by giving the players employee status. If Xavier has to compensate under collective bargaining where will that money come from ? From the same group that the collective is soliciting. Except the amount sought will dwarf $3M since there is no way you don’t have to pay all athletes.
Just sayin!

[XUGRAD80]

I picked up my signed bourbon bottle today supporting Xavier NIlL. Why not combine my favorite Vice with helping out X.

I was there as well. I spent some time talking with the girls selling the t-shirts. They are from musketeergear.com. I asked them how it all works. They tood me that they sell two types of shirts….generic and player specific. At the end of the year they figure out the profits for the generic shirts as a whole, along with each of the different player shirts. They design the shirts themselves and have them produced. The profits from the generic shirts are shared among all the players. The individual shirts results in a little more for the specific players. They sell off the website and also a pop-up events like today’s whisky release. They have done shirts that supported Women’s soccer and other sports as well. They plan to do others in the future.

So if you don’t want to support the NIL, you can still support the players by buying some t-shirts on their website or at one of the popup events they do. They may cost a little more, but the profits go to the players. The profits from the whisky release are also going to the players.

All this goes through the NIL.

They also told me that the international players are not eligible to receive any NIL money. I found that VERY interesting.

[X-band '01]

I am confused when one says that NIL’s will go away and the schools will just have to pay players …the inference being that will be a better model for Xavier Mens Basketball. Paying players comes through collective bargaining which the National Labor Relations Board General Counsel has recommended by giving the players employee status. If Xavier has to compensate under collective bargaining where will that money come from ? From the same group that the collective is soliciting. Except the amount sought will dwarf $3M since there is no way you don’t have to pay all athletes.
Just sayin!

The NLRB has already said that Dartmouth players are employees for their school and are entitled to unionize. The next step remains to be seen.

[Xville]

I respect your priorities. And you obviously have them set the right way.

I actually agree with you that NIL will evolve in a material way, even possibly to the point of not being around at all as you mentioned.

BUT

We're in the here and now. NIL is something that is going to have to be dealt with for next year, for the year after that and then who knows. We can't ignore it and simply hope that the Xavier program treads water somehow.

This is what it has come to - collegiate sports navigating their way to bushels of money through media agreements and internal marketing for decades now, with some, if not most college administrators understanding the marketing value of collegiate sports as a school's "front door/porch". It's a race for survival at the highest level now. Couple that with what is going on demographically in higher education and anyone with a brain can see why it is important for any school to remain both VISIBLE and ATTRACTIVE to potential recruits and students.

Let's hope that we are in an interim phase and that NIL does go away as it presently exists in Wild West Mode. Let's manage as best we can while it still exists so as to maintain and possibly improve our program.

I'll net it out for you when it comes to what I hope for: NIL goes away and schools are allowed to pay athletes directly, without having to pay every athlete due to some f'ed up Title IX restrictions, etc. (i.e. we keep the outflow focused on where the inflow comes from for the most part: men's hoops) or NCAA President policy that requires $30k for each athlete to be paid held in some form of escrow arrangement.

Then, if Xavier can "bring it inside", let's hope that coincides with a material bump in our media agreement and with that hopefully running for another decade. We don't have to pay for football. Our major capital improvements at the Cintas Center have been accomplished. We should have some room to manage a compensated roster construction process at that point.

That's my hope.

Should these athletes share in the money that is being generated? Most people will say yes. I'm old school, but even I say yes, given that I'm a capitalist and given the amounts of money that have become involved. Perhaps it has to do with a concept of fairness and balance. On that note, for the life of me, I can't imagine compensating a football or basketball coach beyond $5mm per year. Has Kirby Smart brought value to UGA? No doubt. Sabin to Bama? Of course. But it gets back to Bud Fox's question to Gordon Gecko: "How many yachts can you ski behind?"

At any rate and at the end of the day, we have watched the collegiate athletics scale continue to slide closer to professional status and away from amateur status. The kids still get to wrap themselves in a brand's uniform. We may simply not get to see a kid go from freshman year to senior year very frequently anymore, unless he is the equivalent of a pro team's franchise player, albeit a 4-year max term player.

Great insight here and I agree with a lot of it.

I’ll just add one thing. The thing is, frankly, that I don’t think the public should have to pay for college kids to play basketball. I think it’s ridiculous honestly. We pay enough in tickets, merchandise, donations to the school, tuition etc and get zero of the profits. Meanwhile, the school and the athletic department makes a shit ton off these kids and off us and now these same schools are asking us to fit the bill. Not their fault, they don’t have a choice, but I think the model is ridiculous and one of the reasons I don't see the model as a sustainable situation.


Just a hypothesis but you brought up what I have been thinking and what has been talked about on the periphery. I think at some point soon the school is going to be paying these kids directly. Congress will be involved to get something passed to where title ix doesn’t come into play, and there will be revenue sharing and probably some kind of salary cap.

[MHettel]

I for one feel like the old “system” where kids can’t get a nickel or even have a job was pretty punitive. You have to let these guys have some quality of life.

But 3M split across 13 guys is 230k per player per year on average. That is insane.

Give ‘em all about 2k a month. That’s more than enough for a college kid to live off of, considering no food or housing costs.

You aren’t doing anyone any favors by paying a 19 year old kid a couple hundred grand for a year or 2 only to have them enter the workforce and make 1/4 of that.

[sirthought]

F' em. I say we all don't pay a single dime into NIL. I hope the whole approach fails so miserably at so many schools that they revolt and break up that entire system. Just because a player can receive money doesn't mean we need to support the system that's paying just to play the game in this way.

These kids have already won the genetic lottery. They get the most attention, often when they've achieved nothing. They get a free education, often that they don't necessarily value in any significant way. They get travel and experiences most college kids can only dream of.

We're already supporting coaches and admins with millions for trying to figure this all out. They are usually the highest paid state employees in each state. If they can't work with that money to figure out moving college sports forward, then let it fail and we will focus on high school and pro sports.

I've enjoyed watching Xavier and UC hoops intensely since 1984. I've watched nearly every game, each year, and attended several. Urged friends and colleagues to watch the games with me. It's been one of the biggest joys in my free time. But I have responsibilities to pay for. And these guys dipping for more just to see what program pays them the most is nowhere on that list. Nor should it be on any of yours.

For years college players have had it good. None have been worse off in life because of their own choice to play. And many end up in with greater opportunity for success than other college students, whether it's through sports or otherwise.

I'd seriously prefer they go into a minor league system and get paid something there, hopefully through ticket sales, than have this whole mess be attached to college education, especially schools that are taxpayer funded. It's so incredibly unfair to those who are learning and working to create things that add more to society. Think about it. They are getting paid before they step on campus, without the public even knowing what they are paying for.

It's insane that we'd blindly set up funds to give people we don't even know what their impact will be even more cash in hand. I'll do that with actual charities, but not this lot.

[sirthought]

deleted for double post

[XUGRAD80]

Pay for play will come, probably sooner rather than later. But not every school will decide to participate in it. The PFP schools will get the best athletes, have the best teams, get the biggest crowds, and the most TV coverage. But isn’t that already the way it is?

Not every school will be able to afford to pay its players. Not every player will be good enough to play at schools that do. But isn’t that already the way it is?

I predict that the PFP schools will form their own new organization and the NCAA will continue to administer the other schools. The players at the PFP schools will unionize. A pay structure will be agreed to. There will be strikes. There will be labor unrest. It will be ugly. Players who have been coddled and praised their entire young lives will have a hard time adjusting to a real “work” environment where they have to produce or their contracts are not renewed. Professional sports are just like this. Add in 18-22 year olds and it’s not going to be pretty.

X will have a decision to make regarding which way they want to go. It will come down to financial considerations. Can they afford to participate in a PFP system? Can they afford not to?

But the NIL isn’t going to go anywhere. The PFP players will still want the right to have side hustles. Current professional athletes shoot commercials, appear in TV shows and movies, write and sell books, endorse products, make appearances, and make tons of money off of those things. The PFP players are going to want to do all of those things too. The non PFP players will also still want a piece of that pie…if they can get it. They will all want a piece of the pie that social media provides. They will want to be paid for doing clinics. They will want to be paid when their names are put onto the back of jerseys that are sold to the public. They will want to be paid for their likeness appearing on a game program. They are going to want to be able to get paid to endorse local restaurants and businesses. It won’t matter if they are getting paid a salary to play or not. The NIL is law now. It’s not going anywhere.

[Xville]

Pay for play will come, probably sooner rather than later. But not every school will decide to participate in it. The PFP schools will get the best athletes, have the best teams, get the biggest crowds, and the most TV coverage. But isn’t that already the way it is?

Not every school will be able to afford to pay its players. Not every player will be good enough to play at schools that do. But isn’t that already the way it is?

I predict that the PFP schools will form their own new organization and the NCAA will continue to administer the other schools. The players at the PFP schools will unionize. A pay structure will be agreed to. There will be strikes. There will be labor unrest. It will be ugly. Players who have been coddled and praised their entire young lives will have a hard time adjusting to a real “work” environment where they have to produce or their contracts are not renewed. Professional sports are just like this. Add in 18-22 year olds and it’s not going to be pretty.

X will have a decision to make regarding which way they want to go. It will come down to financial considerations. Can they afford to participate in a PFP system? Can they afford not to?

But the NIL isn’t going to go anywhere. The PFP players will still want the right to have side hustles. Current professional athletes shoot commercials, appear in TV shows and movies, write and sell books, endorse products, make appearances, and make tons of money off of those things. The PFP players are going to want to do all of those things too. The non PFP players will also still want a piece of that pie…if they can get it. They will all want a piece of the pie that social media provides. They will want to be paid for doing clinics. They will want to be paid when their names are put onto the back of jerseys that are sold to the public. They will want to be paid for their likeness appearing on a game program. They are going to want to be able to get paid to endorse local restaurants and businesses. It won’t matter if they are getting paid a salary to play or not. The NIL is law now. It’s not going anywhere.

When I say NIL will be going away, I didn't mean the things that you mentioned above, I'm more speaking to the ideas of collectives and the public paying into those. It's not a sustainable model.

[XUGRAD80]

As for those that say the public shouldn’t have to pay for the players to play, or say the won’t give a dime to a NIL….

You already do. Every time you buy a product or pay for a service, you are paying. Part of what you’re paying for the product or service is going to pay for their advertising budget. It’s part of virtually every businesses budget. If those companies buy any advertising on TV, radio, newspapers, magazines, billboards, etc. and those companies then put any money into a college sports, you’re paying already. The price they charge for their goods and services is determined in part by their business costs, including their advertising. If you watch TV or listen to the radio, you’re already paying. It’s going to be nearly impossible for you to find products and services from a company that doesn’t either directly or indirectly contribute money to support college athletics. Every time you purchase a product or service a small portion of that money you are spending is going to feed back in some way to college athletics….either directly or indirectly. You’re going to pay in some way.

That’s just the way our economy works.

[sirthought]

As for those that say the public shouldn’t have to pay for the players to play, or say the won’t give a dime to a NIL….

You already do. Every time you buy a product or pay for a service, you are paying. Part of what you’re paying for the product or service is going to pay for their advertising budget. It’s part of virtually every businesses budget. If those companies buy any advertising on TV, radio, newspapers, magazines, billboards, etc. and those companies then put any money into a college sports, you’re paying already. The price they charge for their goods and services is determined in part by their business costs, including their advertising. If you watch TV or listen to the radio, you’re already paying. It’s going to be nearly impossible for you to find products and services from a company that doesn’t either directly or indirectly contribute money to support college athletics. Every time you purchase a product or service a small portion of that money you are spending is going to feed back in some way to college athletics….either directly or indirectly. You’re going to pay in some way.

That’s just the way our economy works.

Well unless they change something in the short term, no NIL dollars are being funded in that way. I've been in PR and marketing my whole career. Advertising at a game, on the broadcast, etc. has nothing to do with NIL. Not yet at least. Yes, there are some businesses that are directly saying they want to contract with a player for certain promotions or general hype machine activities on social media or commercials. But that's very transparent.

I'm okay with a business making that decision. I'm okay with an extremely wealthy person like Phil Knight paying for all the extras to make kids want to come to a school. The law has changed where the concept of NIL is here and players should be allowed to get paid. But how much? A school, schools in a conference, or the college sports system as a whole, has the ability to say they will regulate how they decide to pay people overall. Even if NIL isn't going directly through the school, the deals are being done through them. The idea that some college kid is on a losing team and being paid $500K for one season...that's only going to last for so long until other interests in the state start saying this can't fly that way at a college. We can't expect even the power conference schools to sell into fan interest now, much less ask fans to give even more just get a player on the roster. It's stupid to expect that level of funding.

[XUMIOH12]

Like I mentioned, I understand it's a new day, but it's a tough sell for me, especially with the cost of donations and season tickets.

Better "perks" for doing it may change my mind. I don't care about meeting players or coaches - get me in a suite for a game or give me preferential treatment for away and post-season tickets.

I am on the fence about doing one of the monthly donations, having a hard time convincing myself it would be worth it.

Agree on the "perks". Some of them are decent. But, for me, many are either too vague to know what you actually get, or something that I am not all that interested in. I mean hell, if they just said anybody who signs up and donates for a full year gets a Sean Miller autographed basketball or something like that, it would probably be enough for me to test it out.

I do think that the X bourbon type items are a good way to get some donations though. Unique Xavier-centric stuff like that is appealing.

[A Fan]

The decision that Dartmouth men’s basketball players can unionize was made by an NLRB regional director . It will most likely be appealed to the full Board. If left to stand then the game changes. Players will unionize and seek and receive compensation from the schools and elite players will also still seek and receive NIL compensation. Schools that can offer those things will be in separate leagues that will have their own March Madness for basketball. But the unknown will be which of the schools athletes will be in which NLRB bargaining group. Which employees can belong to the same Bargaining Group is much litigated. Can Women basketball players be in the same bargaining group as the men? Same sport, practice and travel schedule but different revenue streams. How about soccer? All of these questions will be sorted out . And then schools can assess whether they can afford athletics. It will be very expensive.

[MHettel]

The decision that Dartmouth men’s basketball players can unionize was made by an NLRB regional director . It will most likely be appealed to the full Board. If left to stand then the game changes. Players will unionize and seek and receive compensation from the schools and elite players will also still seek and receive NIL compensation. Schools that can offer those things will be in separate leagues that will have their own March Madness for basketball. But the unknown will be which of the schools athletes will be in which NLRB bargaining group. Which employees can belong to the same Bargaining Group is much litigated. Can Women basketball players be in the same bargaining group as the men? Same sport, practice and travel schedule but different revenue streams. How about soccer? All of these questions will be sorted out . And then schools can assess whether they can afford athletics. It will be very expensive.

I just went to the NLRB Website. this is literally the first thing you see.

"The NLRB is an independent federal agency that protects the rights of private sector employees to join together, with or without a union, to improve their wages and working conditions"

What the hell would you expect them to say about this situation?

"my client is innocent" said the defense attorney. Meaningless

[zippin']

I think a lot of people on here have a very over-inflated opinion of who is actually benefiting from NIL. The 10th man at IUPUI is not making hundreds of thousands a year. The media headlines people like Bronny James or Olivia Dunne etc making millions, but that is such a small percentage of D1 athletes it's laughable. It's obviously very fair to not want to donate to NIL because you don't want to personally pay players, but Xavier hoops will almost certainly take a step back if they don't have a respectable NIL war chest. It's funny reading this thread and seeing numerous posts about "down with NIL!" and there being another popular thread about Mack where people say DePaul is trash because they don't have an NIL fund.

College sports are in a very bad place right now, as it is now fully out in the open that money is the only thing that matters. Many schools can barely afford their programs as it is and have to play numerous buy games, and further forcing those schools to pay their players will very likely be too much. You can be fine with that and say it's how business in the real world works, but college sports will essentially end in that situation as states schools will basically be all that are left.

Also, as a final point, I think the idea that student athletes don't care about their degree is wrong. Maybe that's true at Kentucky or North Carolina, but consider what I said above where all of these athletic departments close: now the basketball player playing for Bryant (or whoever) who is able to go to school for free and get a degree can no longer do that because Bryant doesn't have a basketball program anymore.

[XUGRAD80]

Well unless they change something in the short term, no NIL dollars are being funded in that way. I've been in PR and marketing my whole career. Advertising at a game, on the broadcast, etc. has nothing to do with NIL. Not yet at least. Yes, there are some businesses that are directly saying they want to contract with a player for certain promotions or general hype machine activities on social media or commercials. But that's very transparent.

I'm okay with a business making that decision. I'm okay with an extremely wealthy person like Phil Knight paying for all the extras to make kids want to come to a school. The law has changed where the concept of NIL is here and players should be allowed to get paid. But how much? A school, schools in a conference, or the college sports system as a whole, has the ability to say they will regulate how they decide to pay people overall. Even if NIL isn't going directly through the school, the deals are being done through them. The idea that some college kid is on a losing team and being paid $500K for one season...that's only going to last for so long until other interests in the state start saying this can't fly that way at a college. We can't expect even the power conference schools to sell into fan interest now, much less ask fans to give even more just get a player on the roster. It's stupid to expect that level of funding.

I’m just saying that even if someone never donates a dime to a NIL that we all in someway are already paying the players as companies certainly do donate to NILs and do hire players directly. If we purchase services or goods from those companies, then we are indirectly paying those players. AND that when we get to a direct pay for play model where the TV/streaming money is supporting the athletic departments that are paying out the money to the players, that will be even more evident.

[sirthought]

I think a lot of people on here have a very over-inflated opinion of who is actually benefiting from NIL. The 10th man at IUPUI is not making hundreds of thousands a year. The media headlines people like Bronny James or Olivia Dunne etc making millions, but that is such a small percentage of D1 athletes it's laughable. It's obviously very fair to not want to donate to NIL because you don't want to personally pay players, but Xavier hoops will almost certainly take a step back if they don't have a respectable NIL war chest. It's funny reading this thread and seeing numerous posts about "down with NIL!" and there being another popular thread about Mack where people say DePaul is trash because they don't have an NIL fund.

College sports are in a very bad place right now, as it is now fully out in the open that money is the only thing that matters. Many schools can barely afford their programs as it is and have to play numerous buy games, and further forcing those schools to pay their players will very likely be too much. You can be fine with that and say it's how business in the real world works, but college sports will essentially end in that situation as states schools will basically be all that are left.

Also, as a final point, I think the idea that student athletes don't care about their degree is wrong. Maybe that's true at Kentucky or North Carolina, but consider what I said above where all of these athletic departments close: now the basketball player playing for Bryant (or whoever) who is able to go to school for free and get a degree can no longer do that because Bryant doesn't have a basketball program anymore.

Just one example that is not Brony or Olivia. Before Huggins was fired at WVU he had recruited five top talent transfers. All of them were supposed to be getting big NIL packages. The point guard, Kerr, who had played for Miller at Arizona, was rumored to be getting hundreds of thousands. Now this was at least five players their program was going to need to fundraise for, but if even one is getting that much, then an institution of higher learning has lost its way completely. If this was a professional sports league, then fine. But as a college that is supposed to be training the workforce and improving people's skills who want to move up in life, this isn't the way to dedicate time and taxpayer resources.

I don't fault people for getting money if they can, I just don't think these schools are the way to do it. And to be asking folks to pay into a system where offers will be made before we even see how they practice or fit in to a coach's system...It seems really unwise, even if only one or two people are really getting the bulk of the funds.

[sirthought]

I’m just saying that even if someone never donates a dime to a NIL that we all in someway are already paying the players as companies certainly do donate to NILs and do hire players directly. If we purchase services or goods from those companies, then we are indirectly paying those players. AND that when we get to a direct pay for play model where the TV/streaming money is supporting the athletic departments that are paying out the money to the players, that will be even more evident.

Oh, the thing where you can buy a bourbon or beer or whatever product and some money goes to a fund seems totally do'able. A person can decide, or not, to spend cash, and they are getting something in return automatically. These vague benefits that may or may not happen evenly for every donor, coupled with the potentially out-of-control spending wars, makes me say we should all walk away. They're going to have to find a way to make it work for everyone before I buy in on the belief that it will matter in the long run.

[X-band '01]

Just one example that is not Brony or Olivia. Before Huggins was fired at WVU he had recruited five top talent transfers. All of them were supposed to be getting big NIL packages. The point guard, Kerr, who had played for Miller at Arizona, was rumored to be getting hundreds of thousands. Now this was at least five players their program was going to need to fundraise for, but if even one is getting that much, then an institution of higher learning has lost its way completely. If this was a professional sports league, then fine. But as a college that is supposed to be training the workforce and improving people's skills who want to move up in life, this isn't the way to dedicate time and taxpayer resources.

I don't fault people for getting money if they can, I just don't think these schools are the way to do it. And to be asking folks to pay into a system where offers will be made before we even see how they practice or fit in to a coach's system...It seems really unwise, even if only one or two people are really getting the bulk of the funds.

I get the feeling that Kerr Karisa wasn't worth the headache. Maybe West Virginia feels differently - oh wait, they're near the bottom of the Big 12.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Just one example that is not Brony or Olivia. Before Huggins was fired at WVU he had recruited five top talent transfers. All of them were supposed to be getting big NIL packages. The point guard, Kerr, who had played for Miller at Arizona, was rumored to be getting hundreds of thousands. Now this was at least five players their program was going to need to fundraise for, but if even one is getting that much, then an institution of higher learning has lost its way completely. If this was a professional sports league, then fine. But as a college that is supposed to be training the workforce and improving people's skills who want to move up in life, this isn't the way to dedicate time and taxpayer resources.

I don't fault people for getting money if they can, I just don't think these schools are the way to do it. And to be asking folks to pay into a system where offers will be made before we even see how they practice or fit in to a coach's system...It seems really unwise, even if only one or two people are really getting the bulk of the funds.

This is well said. I saw an interview with the U. of Maryland football coach. He described a third string running back who demanded $100K NIL to refrain from entering the portal. The coach stated almost all his meetings with returning players, regardless of experience or on-field contribution as beginning and ending with similar demands from the players. Like Drudy's earlier post, I just cannot get my head around paying college players. I get the argument that these programs generate massive cash and other benefits for their university sponsors and the players have not shared proportionately in those benefits. But it has very quickly gotten out of hand.

Ryan Day at OSU goes to his boosters and tells them he needs $14 million in NIL to obtain the best players. Is that really what we want for X or really for any school? We just go buy the best players and then congratulate ourselves for winning championships as though we've accomplished something mighty? I think that model will not work for X and most schools financially but I also believe it will chase away fans like me who appreciate the institution for its values and its contributions beyond basketball. This will turn players and coaches into modern day carpet baggers; hucksters who want just one thing....money. And it turns us, the fans, into enablers.

[zippin']

Just one example that is not Brony or Olivia. Before Huggins was fired at WVU he had recruited five top talent transfers. All of them were supposed to be getting big NIL packages. The point guard, Kerr, who had played for Miller at Arizona, was rumored to be getting hundreds of thousands. Now this was at least five players their program was going to need to fundraise for, but if even one is getting that much, then an institution of higher learning has lost its way completely. If this was a professional sports league, then fine. But as a college that is supposed to be training the workforce and improving people's skills who want to move up in life, this isn't the way to dedicate time and taxpayer resources.

I don't fault people for getting money if they can, I just don't think these schools are the way to do it. And to be asking folks to pay into a system where offers will be made before we even see how they practice or fit in to a coach's system...It seems really unwise, even if only one or two people are really getting the bulk of the funds.


That may be true, but it’s still a fraction of D1 athletes. Again, the majority of college athletes are seeing little to no NIL $s coming their way, you just hear about the big ones. Whether you think it’s unwise or not, the cat is out of the bag and it isn’t going back in. If you want to compete you have to have NIL.

[zippin']

This is well said. I saw an interview with the U. of Maryland football coach. He described a third string running back who demanded $100K NIL to refrain from entering the portal. The coach stated almost all his meetings with returning players, regardless of experience or on-field contribution as beginning and ending with similar demands from the players. Like Drudy's earlier post, I just cannot get my head around paying college players. I get the argument that these programs generate massive cash and other benefits for their university sponsors and the players have not shared proportionately in those benefits. But it has very quickly gotten out of hand.

Ryan Day at OSU goes to his boosters and tells them he needs $14 million in NIL to obtain the best players. Is that really what we want for X or really for any school? We just go buy the best players and then congratulate ourselves for winning championships as though we've accomplished something mighty? I think that model will not work for X and most schools financially but I also believe it will chase away fans like me who appreciate the institution for its values and its contributions beyond basketball. This will turn players and coaches into modern day carpet baggers; hucksters who want just one thing....money. And it turns us, the fans, into enablers.


Xavier was never getting the best recruits and they will continue not getting them. I don't know why that’s hard for people to understand. Unless Xavier has billionaire donors hidden away somewhere (they don’t), we will continue to get the level of recruit/transfer we’ve always gotten, and the usual suspects will continue getting the top guys. You’re talking about football: when was the last time Ohio State was bad at football? NIL or no NIL, they will always be a top program. NIL at schools trying to win championships isn't going away.

[XUGRAD80]

I don't fault people for getting money if they can, I just don't think these schools are the way to do it. And to be asking folks to pay into a system where offers will be made before we even see how they practice or fit in to a coach's system...It seems really unwise, even if only one or two people are really getting the bulk of the funds.

So players should have to come and play for a while before they are given an athletic scholarship?

Ever heard of sign-on bonuses for jobs?

How about a raise tied to a promotion?

There are dozens of examples that could be given to where people are given or promised compensation before they ever perform one task. This is no different.

[bjf123]

I saw an interview with the U. of Maryland football coach. He described a third string running back who demanded $100K NIL to refrain from entering the portal.

I certainly hope the coach told him to enter the portal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sirthought]

So players should have to come and play for a while before they are given an athletic scholarship?

Ever heard of sign-on bonuses for jobs?

How about a raise tied to a promotion?

There are dozens of examples that could be given to where people are given or promised compensation before they ever perform one task. This is no different.

Your response shows how skewed the perception of what they deserve has gotten.

First, no state or government job is giving a signing bonus. I know XU is private but I doubt they offer employees $500, $1000, or more just to accept a job there. Most of college sports is happening at govt. non-profit institutions supported by the taxpayers.

Second, these aren't signing bonuses. They are negotiated payouts that are really pretty lucrative. This isn't like a college kid gets a nice part time job. And yeah the kids work hard, but so do a lot of other people at schools that leverage their work for a better reputation and status.

Third, if I'm getting a raise with a promotion, I've shown the organization that I can produce and get the job done. I don't think paying a high school kid $25k to chuck three pointers on the run is the best investment when coming into that money is a REAL job. Most athletic programs are in the hole. It cost money for equipment and time to run things. And NIL is completely outside of that. So getting money. to pay these athletes makes the actual financial investment for sports much much worse.

[drudy23]

At the end of the day, the talent of the players is what's driving the demand and making the schools boatloads of money.

You can argue how payment should be accomplished, but where else is that not compensated? This isn't non-profit work, quite the opposite.

I just don't understand the attitude of "just entertain us, make us lots of money, and keep your mouth shut". Age really doesn't matter. There are plenty of ultra-skilled kids/young adults that perform for boatloads of money in many industries.

However, when I go to a concert, I pay for the ticket, which I'm more than happy to do, and the proceeds pay the performer. I don't pay both.

[STL_XUfan]

At the end of the day, the talent of the players is what's driving the demand and making the schools boatloads of money.

You can argue how payment should be accomplished, but where else is that not compensated? This isn't non-profit work, quite the opposite.

I just don't understand the attitude of "just entertain us, make us lots of money, and keep your mouth shut". Age really doesn't matter. There are plenty of ultra-skilled kids/young adults that perform for boatloads of money in many industries.

However, when I go to a concert, I pay for the ticket, which I'm more than happy to do, and the proceeds pay the performer. I don't pay both.

What about buying the Band's merch while you are the concert?

What about signing up for the Band's fan club to get access to exclusive tracks or early access to presales?

If you just want to buy the ticket and watch the show, there is nothing wrong with that. There is also nothing wrong with supporting the band through other means to ensure they keep making music you like.

[GoMuskies]

At the end of the day, the talent of the players is what's driving the demand and making the schools boatloads of money.

You can argue how payment should be accomplished, but where else is that not compensated? This isn't non-profit work, quite the opposite.

I just don't understand the attitude of "just entertain us, make us lots of money, and keep your mouth shut". Age really doesn't matter. There are plenty of ultra-skilled kids/young adults that perform for boatloads of money in many industries.

However, when I go to a concert, I pay for the ticket, which I'm more than happy to do, and the proceeds pay the performer. I don't pay both.

Kind of. If the same kids played for minor league teams from Clifton and Norwood, tens of people would attend if the tickets were free. The association with the school plays an enormous part in driving demand, and even in the bad old days before stipends and NIL everyone who's ever been on a college campus knows those kids had a pretty sweet deal. I don't recall too many kids ever turning down a D-I scholarship because it wasn't a good enough deal for them.

[xubrew]

I for one feel like the old “system” where kids can’t get a nickel or even have a job was pretty punitive. You have to let these guys have some quality of life.

But 3M split across 13 guys is 230k per player per year on average. That is insane.

Give ‘em all about 2k a month. That’s more than enough for a college kid to live off of, considering no food or housing costs.

You aren’t doing anyone any favors by paying a 19 year old kid a couple hundred grand for a year or 2 only to have them enter the workforce and make 1/4 of that.

I could not agree with this more. I also feel that if the NCAA had taken this approach about ten or fifteen years ago, we may not be where we are today. But, then again, maybe we would be.

I don't remember exactly when this was, and I don't feel like looking it up, but there was legislation proposed that would have allowed all student-athletes to receive a stipend of $5000 per year. It was voted down, and voted down huge. I can't say for certain that if that had passed that we wouldn't be where we are today, but I do absolutely think that it certainly did not help.

There was one single huge problem with the old NCAA structure. It was not legal. Anyone with even an elementary understanding of the law, and I guess antitrust law in particular, had to understand that. Even 25 years ago I remember thinking that if the courts every got involved, the NCAA would be doomed. Well, they have, and that's why we are where we are.

-It was the courts that ruled in the O'Bannon Case

-It was the Supreme Court that ruled in the Alston Case, and in the decision basically stated that athletes were likely entitled to, and would likely get, a lot more if they continued to push the issue. Let's not forget that the Supreme Court has already ruled that schools can pay players, and that the NCAA will basically be in violation of the law if a school decides they want to do that, and the NCAA tries to stop them.

-And now there is the House Case, which is seeking billions in damages from the NCAA

-It was state lawmakers that began instituting NIL laws that the NCAA basically had to abide by

-It was the NLRB that first said Northwestern football, and has now said Dartmouth basketball, were employees

-The fear of further litigation is one of the big reasons the transfer rules have changed as much as they have, and why we are on the brink of transfer restrictions going away entirely


So...maybe this was bound to happen eventually with our without the stipends. But I still think it was kind of dumb to give them nothing, and keep giving them nothing, and not think that there would eventually be some sort of pushback. I mean, if you know you have no chance in the courts, which the NCAA absolutely should have known, then why give them even more reasons to take it to the courts??

[JTG]

At the end of the day, the talent of the players is what's driving the demand and making the schools boatloads of money.

You can argue how payment should be accomplished, but where else is that not compensated? This isn't non-profit work, quite the opposite.

I just don't understand the attitude of "just entertain us, make us lots of money, and keep your mouth shut". Age really doesn't matter. There are plenty of ultra-skilled kids/young adults that perform for boatloads of money in many industries.

However, when I go to a concert, I pay for the ticket, which I'm more than happy to do, and the proceeds pay the performer. I don't pay both.

Maybe a third to half go to the performer. The rest goes to some keyboard prick with a special computer program that allows him to buy hundreds of tickets in the first 30 seconds they go on sale.

[XUGRAD80]

Your response shows how skewed the perception of what they deserve has gotten.

First, no state or government job is giving a signing bonus. I know XU is private but I doubt they offer employees $500, $1000, or more just to accept a job there. Most of college sports is happening at govt. non-profit institutions supported by the taxpayers.

Second, these aren't signing bonuses. They are negotiated payouts that are really pretty lucrative. This isn't like a college kid gets a nice part time job. And yeah the kids work hard, but so do a lot of other people at schools that leverage their work for a better reputation and status.

Third, if I'm getting a raise with a promotion, I've shown the organization that I can produce and get the job done. I don't think paying a high school kid $25k to chuck three pointers on the run is the best investment when coming into that money is a REAL job. Most athletic programs are in the hole. It cost money for equipment and time to run things. And NIL is completely outside of that. So getting money. to pay these athletes makes the actual financial investment for sports much much worse.

Recruits are offered scholarships, and NIL money in some cases, because they have shown POTENTIAL to be successful and to contribute to the success of a team. They don’t “earn” the scholarship, or the NIL money, because of what they have done at the school. They KEEP the scholarship, and/or NIL money, for what they do at the after being at the school. Those athletic scholarships are offered before we ever see them practice or play at the school, or see how well they fit into a coaches system. How is that different than them being guaranteed some NIL money?

In both cases they are going to be promised something for what they MAY bring to the program in the near future……..that’s just like someone getting a sign-on bonus when taking on a new job. They “earned” that money because of the perceived value that they will bring to the new job, based on past performance elsewhere.

Oh by the way in regards to “government” jobs not having sign-on bonuses…..would you consider the military as being a “government” job? Because the military absolutely offers sign-on bonuses. So you’re wrong there too. AND…there are also many non-profits that hire people and five out sign-on bonuses too. It would also surprise me greatly if X didn’t offer some sign-on bonuses to some professors that they would try to entice to come to X. In addition, they certainly offer academic scholarships to incoming freshman that have done well in their HS years, even though they have never done anything at X. The public universities do that to.

I’m not crazy about the whole NIL as part of recruiting model either. But it is reality. No amount of sticking one’s head in the sand and hoping it goes away is going to make a difference. It’s here and it’s here to stay. X fans need to either piss or get off the pot. X is never going to have the money or resources to compete head to head on those things with the big boys in the leagues made up of large universities. The question is if they are going to have the money to compete with the best programs within its own league? Supporting the 2% program is one way of helping make that happen.

[sirthought]

Yeah but the overall compensation of scholarships are very different from a cash payout.

Schools offer scholarship to all manner of degrees and educational focus. A sports scholarship is no different than someone going to study chemistry, theater, or violin. [And people in those disciplines are often given stipends, which is how the athletic programs could have approached it with some responsibilities linked in to service to the program. (I'm sure they'd get creative there.) But I digress.]

But the bottom line is schools have that capacity within how they are setup. They already have the classroom space and other amenities that other students are using, so while the overhead is significant, it's not as much of a hit as a cash agreement, because...they can manage due to taxpayer and booster support. A scholarship for learning how to train and become a better athlete is on mission and just as valuable as learning to become a chemist, theater producer, violinist. It's what the school's intent was. No schools was ever built to entertain the masses with games of skill and chance.

I'm not arguing that NIL isn't here to stay. But the expectation from players around it are currently in the wild wild west. And the marketplace, or rather how we are choosing to fund it, are going to need to be setting things into a good place quickly, or college sports are going to break down across the country. And I'm not so sure that isn't a bad thing.

But I also think an athlete choosing there college experience gains a lot from the community and losing that would be a shame. If these guys were all to jump from high school to a minor league or developmental league, most fans wouldn't give two sh^ts about them because they weren't playing for their school. That sort of support from the community is an important part of their growth as they develop.

Europe and other regions don't have any college sports like this. It's a unique mess we've created.

[XUFinal2]

Hey all,

Again, I know NIL brings out strong opinions and I respect people’s thoughts. For those open to considering supporting XU NIL efforts now, I agree with XUGrad80 that NIL is now here in some form moving forward. Many of us saw or are seeing now what the Cintas Center and fundraising to get our facilities so top notch did to elevate the program. We wouldn’t be in the Big East or have 3 Elite 8s and 7 Sweet 16s that last 20 seasons without building Cintas in my humble opinion. NIL efforts is this decade’s opportunity to help XU compete at the highest levels. Unfortunately, those schools without solid NIL support give themselves a competitive disadvantage, with staffing/recruiting/player retention and ultimately winning.

Final 2% is designed to get more fans open to skipping on some discretionary expenses (plans start at $10 a month) to help this cause. The transfer portal opens in less than 40 days, if you are thinking of joining, your support will be greatly appreciated. 97% of funds disbursed went to student athletes in 2023. We need as many fans as possible to support, we still have an open 500k match we are trying to http://www.final2percent.comattain. Thanks for reading

[MHettel]

I could not agree with this more. I also feel that if the NCAA had taken this approach about ten or fifteen years ago, we may not be where we are today. But, then again, maybe we would be.

I don't remember exactly when this was, and I don't feel like looking it up, but there was legislation proposed that would have allowed all student-athletes to receive a stipend of $5000 per year. It was voted down, and voted down huge. I can't say for certain that if that had passed that we wouldn't be where we are today, but I do absolutely think that it certainly did not help.

There was one single huge problem with the old NCAA structure. It was not legal. Anyone with even an elementary understanding of the law, and I guess antitrust law in particular, had to understand that. Even 25 years ago I remember thinking that if the courts every got involved, the NCAA would be doomed. Well, they have, and that's why we are where we are.

-It was the courts that ruled in the O'Bannon Case

-It was the Supreme Court that ruled in the Alston Case, and in the decision basically stated that athletes were likely entitled to, and would likely get, a lot more if they continued to push the issue. Let's not forget that the Supreme Court has already ruled that schools can pay players, and that the NCAA will basically be in violation of the law if a school decides they want to do that, and the NCAA tries to stop them.

-And now there is the House Case, which is seeking billions in damages from the NCAA

-It was state lawmakers that began instituting NIL laws that the NCAA basically had to abide by

-It was the NLRB that first said Northwestern football, and has now said Dartmouth basketball, were employees

-The fear of further litigation is one of the big reasons the transfer rules have changed as much as they have, and why we are on the brink of transfer restrictions going away entirely


So...maybe this was bound to happen eventually with our without the stipends. But I still think it was kind of dumb to give them nothing, and keep giving them nothing, and not think that there would eventually be some sort of pushback. I mean, if you know you have no chance in the courts, which the NCAA absolutely should have known, then why give them even more reasons to take it to the courts??

Can I get a time machine and go back to 1991, when you just recruited guys and developed them to succeed in basketball and ultimately life? And they had free tuition, the best lodging, an unlimited meal card and GOD status on campus. And they played hard, for US. And now I get fucking case law.

[XUGRAD80]

Hey all,

Again, I know NIL brings out strong opinions and I respect people’s thoughts. For those open to considering supporting XU NIL efforts now, I agree with XUGrad80 that NIL is now here in some form moving forward. Many of us saw or are seeing now what the Cintas Center and fundraising to get our facilities so top notch did to elevate the program. We wouldn’t be in the Big East or have 3 Elite 8s and 7 Sweet 16s that last 20 seasons without building Cintas in my humble opinion. NIL efforts is this decade’s opportunity to help XU compete at the highest levels. Unfortunately, those schools without solid NIL support give themselves a competitive disadvantage, with staffing/recruiting/player retention and ultimately winning.

Final 2% is designed to get more fans open to skipping on some discretionary expenses (plans start at $10 a month) to help this cause. The transfer portal opens in less than 40 days, if you are thinking of joining, your support will be greatly appreciated. 97% of funds disbursed went to student athletes in 2023. We need as many fans as possible to support, we still have an open 500k match we are trying to http://www.final2percent.comattain. Thanks for reading


The trouble seems to me to be that SOME want to run with the big dogs, but aren’t willing to get off the porch.

Edit: I know that many of the people here already support the program hugely by buying season tickets and making huge donations to other funds. I’m not pointing a finger at anyone that is doing those things. I personally thank all that are doing those things. X would not be where it is without that support through many years. I also know that not everyone can afford to do those things. For those that can’t, there is the NIL/Final 2%. For as little as $10 per month you CAN HELP to make a difference. If you still can’t afford that, I understand. I’ve been there myself. What I don’t get is the attitude that we shouldn’t support NIL programs like this. The attitude that if we just ignore it, it will go away. Or that it is wrong to support it. The attitude that the athletes should just be happy for what they already get. Believe me, I could spend hours telling you stories about personal and financial sacrifices that the walk-on players and other non-scholarship athletes make, both personal and financial, in order to play a sport at the college level. This program is not just designed to attract the top level BB players, but it’s ultimately designed to help the others too. The ones that don’t appear on TV and don’t play in front of 10,000 fans on a nightly basis. So if you don’t want to give anymore financial support to the BB program than you’re already doing, or don’t feel that the men’s BB players deserve anything more than they are already getting, do it for the others that aren’t getting all that.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Can I get a time machine and go back to 1991, when you just recruited guys and developed them to succeed in basketball and ultimately life? And they had free tuition, the best lodging, an unlimited meal card and GOD status on campus. And they played hard, for US. And now I get fucking case law.

And the coaches didn't get 8 million a year, and school presidents weren't only obsessed with $ and chose to join conferences that made no sense geographically, and the people in charge of the schools and the NCAA weren't so money hungry they got us to where we are today?

[GoMuskies]

The trouble seems to me to be that SOME want to run with the big dogs, but aren’t willing to get off the porch.

Edit: I know that many of the people here already support the program hugely by buying season tickets and making huge donations to other funds. I’m not pointing a finger at anyone that is doing those things. I personally thank all that are doing those things. X would not be where it is without that support through many years. I also know that not everyone can afford to do those things. For those that can’t, there is the NIL/Final 2%. For as little as $10 per month you CAN HELP to make a difference.

I appreciate all of you that support the program through buying tickets, donating to the program, giving to Final 2%, whatever. If I was in the area, I'd buy tickets to games, because I enjoy those. However, I could never make sense of donating to the athletics department so that Xavier could afford to give a raise to someone far more wealthy than me. And as for NIL, I can't justify giving money to college kids when I have kids of my own. If I give money to kids, it's going to be to mine. Hell, my daughter's college team has an NIL collective, and there's no chance I'll give money to it. Why would I split the money 20 ways when I could just give money directly to my daughter?

But that's just me. Again, I appreciate anyone who decides to financially support X and the athletes. Just not for me. When I donate to X, it's to the academic side only.

[xubrew]

Can I get a time machine and go back to 1991, when you just recruited guys and developed them to succeed in basketball and ultimately life? And they had free tuition, the best lodging, an unlimited meal card and GOD status on campus. And they played hard, for US. And now I get fucking case law.

It must have been nice back then. I would have probably had to pay a lot more for satellite TV so I could see the out of area games, but I have this impression of the 80s and 90s of a time when the game was just better in literally all aspects. And, you could go to the Final Four, and not have to spend a week's pay to do it.

[xubrew]

The trouble seems to me to be that SOME want to run with the big dogs, but aren’t willing to get off the porch.

Edit: I know that many of the people here already support the program hugely by buying season tickets and making huge donations to other funds. I’m not pointing a finger at anyone that is doing those things. I personally thank all that are doing those things. X would not be where it is without that support through many years. I also know that not everyone can afford to do those things. For those that can’t, there is the NIL/Final 2%. For as little as $10 per month you CAN HELP to make a difference. If you still can’t afford that, I understand. I’ve been there myself. What I don’t get is the attitude that we shouldn’t support NIL programs like this. The attitude that if we just ignore it, it will go away. Or that it is wrong to support it. The attitude that the athletes should just be happy for what they already get. Believe me, I could spend hours telling you stories about personal and financial sacrifices that the walk-on players and other non-scholarship athletes make, both personal and financial, in order to play a sport at the college level. This program is not just designed to attract the top level BB players, but it’s ultimately designed to help the others too. The ones that don’t appear on TV and don’t play in front of 10,000 fans on a nightly basis. So if you don’t want to give anymore financial support to the BB program than you’re already doing, or don’t feel that the men’s BB players deserve anything more than they are already getting, do it for the others that aren’t getting all that.


This is interesting.

No one has left. Attendance isn't any lower, TV ratings aren't any lower, and media deals are actually higher. This whole notion that the NCAA's model was dependent on amateur athletics in order to survive really was just a bunch of nonsense (at least from a legal perspective). College sports are not any less popular now. Many who insisted that they would be are not only still around, but are now actually participating in NIL collectives.

And, here is the ultimate irony. Because the NCAA's popularity has not diminished at all like the NCAA tried to say it would, it may end up being totally crushed out of existence because of the House Case. Someone with more legal knowledge can weigh in on this, but based on my elementary knowledge of antitrust law, the plaintiffs are right (at least according to the letter of the law)...

-The NCAA amateur rules were not legal under antitrust law

-The plaintiffs were injured because of the NCAA's rules. They were denied access to their fair market value.

Now, just HOW injured were they?? They're asking for BILLIOINS!! If the courts award them all of what they're asking, then the NCAA may not be here anymore. And, i don't know what happens after that.

[Masterofreality]

This 100%. Good Post ‘80!!


The trouble seems to me to be that SOME want to run with the big dogs, but aren’t willing to get off the porch.

Edit: I know that many of the people here already support the program hugely by buying season tickets and making huge donations to other funds. I’m not pointing a finger at anyone that is doing those things. I personally thank all that are doing those things. X would not be where it is without that support through many years. I also know that not everyone can afford to do those things. For those that can’t, there is the NIL/Final 2%. For as little as $10 per month you CAN HELP to make a difference. If you still can’t afford that, I understand. I’ve been there myself. What I don’t get is the attitude that we shouldn’t support NIL programs like this. The attitude that if we just ignore it, it will go away. Or that it is wrong to support it. The attitude that the athletes should just be happy for what they already get. Believe me, I could spend hours telling you stories about personal and financial sacrifices that the walk-on players and other non-scholarship athletes make, both personal and financial, in order to play a sport at the college level. This program is not just designed to attract the top level BB players, but it’s ultimately designed to help the others too. The ones that don’t appear on TV and don’t play in front of 10,000 fans on a nightly basis. So if you don’t want to give anymore financial support to the BB program than you’re already doing, or don’t feel that the men’s BB players deserve anything more than they are already getting, do it for the others that aren’t getting all that.

[XUGRAD80]

-The NCAA amateur rules were not legal under antitrust law

-The plaintiffs were injured because of the NCAA's rules. They were denied access to their fair market value.



I’m no lawyer and I didn’t stay at a holiday Inn Express last night but it seems to me that many people are missing one big point….

Membership in the NCAA is VOLUNTARY. No one is forced to belong or to be a member. When schools petition for membership they voluntarily agree to the rules. When athletes agree to become a member of an athletic team at a member school they also agree to the rules. No one is forced to become a member of any schools athletic program. No one is forced to accept a scholarship either. If they enter into a scholarship contract(and they are legal contracts) they sign that they agree with the terms of the contract.

I think that it is going to be a huge obstacle to overcome for the plaintiff to prove that they were “damaged” in some way after they voluntarily entered into the contract.

But who really knows what any court will decide in this day and age?

[xubrew]

I’m no lawyer and I didn’t stay at a holiday Inn Express last night but it seems to me that many people are missing one big point….

Membership in the NCAA is VOLUNTARY. No one is forced to belong or to be a member. When schools petition for membership they voluntarily agree to the rules. When athletes agree to become a member of an athletic team at a member school they also agree to the rules. No one is forced to become a member of any schools athletic program. No one is forced to accept a scholarship either. If they enter into a scholarship contract(and they are legal contracts) they sign that they agree with the terms of the contract.

I think that it is going to be a huge obstacle to overcome for the plaintiff to prove that they were “damaged” in some way after they voluntarily entered into the contract.

But who really knows what any court will decide in this day and age?

This makes sense to me. The concern is there doesn't seem to be much precedence (especially recently) of this working out in the NCAA's favor. I guess we'll see.

[xudash]

This 100%. Good Post ‘80!!

Totally agree.

And great points about the nature of contractual relationships.

“Well, I signed it, but I did not read it, and I am upset, so, therefore, I am damaged!”

[xubrew]

Totally agree.

And great points about the nature of contractual relationships.

“Well, I signed it, but I did not read it, and I am upset, so, therefore, I am damaged!”

Something tells me it's not going to be quite as easy as that. I see and understand the point, but I think the NCAA may be in for a very stressful summer.

[94GRAD]

Totally agree.

And great points about the nature of contractual relationships.

“Well, I signed it, but I did not read it, and I am upset, so, therefore, I am damaged!”

I'm damaged as well but for other reasons.

[xubrew]

I'm also damaged, but I was that way when they took me out of the box.

[xudash]

Something tells me it's not going to be quite as easy as that. I see and understand the point, but I think the NCAA may be in for a very stressful summer.

I believe you.

I also believe this will sort itself out in the long run. It’s probably going to be messy and provide some good theater, to your point. When it’s all over, the collegiate sports world hierarchy will look much as it looks like now.

Thank God Xavier woke up when it did 45 years ago. Imagine being a LaSalle or Duquesne right now.

[xudash]

I'm damaged as well but for other reasons.

I’m not sure you needed to explain that, but it hasn’t kept you from running a very fine establishment!

[XUGRAD80]

Something tells me it's not going to be quite as easy as that. I see and understand the point, but I think the NCAA may be in for a very stressful summer.

No doubt

[Masterofreality]

Hey people! THANKS! It’s happening!

110 new donors signed up for The Final 2% yesterday.
It seems that the word is getting out. Hope it keeps rolling!

[bjf123]

My Twitter feed is full of references to it, so they’re really pushing it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[XUGRAD80]

Hey people! THANKS! It’s happening!

110 new donors signed up for The Final 2% yesterday.
It seems that the word is getting out. Hope it keeps rolling!


That’s great news! My personal thanks to everyone that has signed up.

[XUBoston]

Hey people! THANKS! It’s happening!

110 new donors signed up for The Final 2% yesterday.
It seems that the word is getting out. Hope it keeps rolling!

$40K raised according to their twitter. Lets keep it going!!

[webxu]

I signed up for it the other day.. certainly not much but at least doing a little on my end.

[XUFinal2]

Thank you all who have joined and those who helped spread the word! Over 160 new members in the last 4 days! Paul Fritschner had a Spaces discussion after the Seton Hall game. If you skip to the 43 minute mark, there is a remarkable conversation on NIL. This fueled so much of the fanbase to join, it is worth the listen:

https://x.com/seanmillerpod/status/1757952220497142254?s=46

Smaller support truly goes a long way.

http://www.final2percent.com

[GIMMFD]

I signed up for it the other day.. certainly not much but at least doing a little on my end.

Yup, just signed up myself, not driving the NIL money or anything, but happy to help at least a little! Just think of it as another subscription service.

[Masterofreality]

A federal judge in Tennessee on Friday granted a preliminary injunction that prohibits the NCAA from enforcing its own rules against pay-for-play in recruiting. Effective immediately, name, image and likeness collectives can negotiate deals with recruits without fear of NCAA sanctions.

It is now officially the Wild West. Better step up support of NIL collectives boys or step right out. Ours is “The Final 2%.”

[Xville]

A federal judge in Tennessee on Friday granted a preliminary injunction that prohibits the NCAA from enforcing its own rules against pay-for-play in recruiting. Effective immediately, name, image and likeness collectives can negotiate deals with recruits without fear of NCAA sanctions.

It is now officially the Wild West. Better step up support of NIL collectives boys or step right out. Ours is “The Final 2%.”

Tell your boy Kokrak to donate all his Saudi liv money to it.

[GoMuskies]

Tell your boy Kokrak to donate all his Saudi liv money to it.

Our players obviously are too ethical to take any of that dirty Saudi money.

[A Fan]

A federal judge in Tennessee on Friday granted a preliminary injunction that prohibits the NCAA from enforcing its own rules against pay-for-play in recruiting. Effective immediately, name, image and likeness collectives can negotiate deals with recruits without fear of NCAA sanctions.

It is now officially the Wild West. Better step up support of NIL collectives boys or step right out. Ours is “The Final 2%.”
The effect of the ruling is that an agent for a high schooler or an entrant into the portal can call Sean Miller and the Final 2% and get a price before stepping foot on campus. “ Amateur Athletics” may have been an illusion and now we have an open market. Xavier players who another team might want can now sit with Sean Miller at the end of the season and ask for a price to stay out of the portal. If they don’t like the price they can go into the portal and get bids . If Sean’s bid was sufficient they can come back. There is nothing preventing a Collective from calling Boosters and saying we need your money to get Dez Claude out of the portal. I don’t see how anyone can say college athletics has not been professionalized. The average players get a $50 K per year scholarship and the good players get that plus cash payments.

[xukeith]

Do we need any actuary tables to calculate the heights and BMI of players so they can also get some life insurance while they are prospecting Miller?

[Masterofreality]

Our players obviously are too ethical to take any of that dirty Saudi money.

*Some* might be very surprised at how many and HOW MUCH former Xavier Athletic Alumni are throwing in to the pot.
The same *Some* who can only run their fat mouths and can’t even give $10/month.
All bitching and no action. Yup.

[Xville]

*Some* might be very surprised at how many and HOW MUCH former Xavier Athletic Alumni are throwing in to the pot.
The same *Some* who can only run their fat mouths and can’t even give $10/month.
All bitching and no action. Yup.

No one is bitching here but you. Sorry that my priorities are to my kids and not to guys to dribble a basketball. Man are my priorities messed up. Get bent

[drudy23]

While NIL is a concern for every small market team moving forward, NIL was not the reason for this below average season.

Last time I checked, we have a grand total of 1 recruit coming in next year. That's not good with this roster.

Is the school and admin going to blame the fans when we can't fill a roster with Big East caliber talent? Cmon man, this isn't ours to solve.

[CP05XU08CU13]

Could not agree more this quote! My priority is first and foremost to my family, and maybe one day I will be able to afford to send them to a school like Xavier. As far as I am concerned, players were getting “paid” long before NIL. Free tuition, college gear, per diem for travel that athletes can essentially pocket, and tons of side benefits in the community for being a college athlete. Sorry I do not feel that college athletes should get paid more than a young man or woman that chooses to enlist in the military. There are plenty of programs that do not have near the deep pockets as Xavier that can field a decent basketball team. No reason Xavier cannot compete near the top of the Big East each year with what they have in place.

[XUBison]

…Is the school and admin going to blame the fans when we can't fill a roster with Big East caliber talent?…

See Mark Stoops. — Clearly, that’s where this is headed.

[D-West & PO-Z]

While NIL is a concern for every small market team moving forward, NIL was not the reason for this below average season.

Last time I checked, we have a grand total of 1 recruit coming in next year. That's not good with this roster.

Is the school and admin going to blame the fans when we can't fill a roster with Big East caliber talent? Cmon man, this isn't ours to solve.

No sense in ever trying to figure out what next years time will look like in Feb in this new portal age.

[XUGRAD80]

Last time I checked, we have a grand total of 1 recruit coming in next year. That's not good with this roster.

Is the school and admin going to blame the fans when we can't fill a roster with Big East caliber talent? Cmon man, this isn't ours to solve.

You’re forgetting Free and Hunter, and that everyone other than Olivari CAN come back next year if they choose to. No matter how much money a NIL may have they are still limited to 13 scholarships and a roster of 15. You know that Miller was counting on having those 2 players available for this year. And you should realize that players that might have committed for next year are now looking at the potential roster for next year and realizing that there isn’t currently a spot for them.

But my guess is that Sean has a pretty good idea of who won’t be coming back next year and has already started identifying potential replacements, either transfers or freshman recruits. Let’s also realize that none of the SIX FRESHMEN on the roster have ever had a full off-season in a college environment. Look how much Claude has improved his production from his freshman to his sophomore year. It wouldn’t surprise me to see Swain and Green have similar stories next year. Possibly even Ciani or Djocavic will improve tremendously after going through the offseason training they will get. IMO the roster isn’t as bad as it is young and undeveloped.

[Xavier]

While NIL is a concern for every small market team moving forward, NIL was not the reason for this below average season.

Last time I checked, we have a grand total of 1 recruit coming in next year. That's not good with this roster.

.

I think the days of 4+ recruits coming in are gone. I think we average 2-3 freshman a year. They are also in the mix for some PG from France. (Along with Gonzaga and Alabama).

But still, I expect 2-3 freshman guys as an average. Seeing only one recruit means little to nothing to me. The majority of new faces, especially rotational players, will always be transfers.

[MHettel]

While NIL is a concern for every small market team moving forward, NIL was not the reason for this below average season.

Last time I checked, we have a grand total of 1 recruit coming in next year. That's not good with this roster.

Is the school and admin going to blame the fans when we can't fill a roster with Big East caliber talent? Cmon man, this isn't ours to solve.

I feel like we got outbid for Ike by Gonzaga. That guy averages like 17/8 in 23 minutes. Exactly what we DONT have.

[Masterofreality]

I feel like we got outbid for Ike by Gonzaga. That guy averages like 17/8 in 23 minutes. Exactly what we DONT have.

This. Totally

[bleedXblue]

This is where X is either going to move ahead as a program or stall. And now, we're in a really tough spot IMHO. We haven't recruited well for the last 3-4 years and having to build through the portal is going to be expensive...... Getting "cheaper" players like Boum and Quincy has been great, but you arent always going to be that fortunate. I don't feel like the talent foundation (frosh/soph) is all that strong and that is not a good place to be for a school like X.

[Xville]

This is where X is either going to move ahead as a program or stall. And now, we're in a really tough spot IMHO. We haven't recruited well for the last 3-4 years and having to build through the portal is going to be expensive...... Getting "cheaper" players like Boum and Quincy has been great, but you arent always going to be that fortunate. I don't feel like the talent foundation (frosh/soph) is all that strong and that is not a good place to be for a school like X.

I don't think the problem has been recruiting the last 3-4 years, the problem was the recruiting in 2020 and 2021..those are the guys who presumably should have been leading the program this year. Ya know how many of those guys are around? ZERO. To be fair, one of them was Colby so not Steele's fault the guy was so good...but there should be at least 2-3 guys from those classes this year that should be the leaders of the team.

[XUGRAD80]

Miller’s first 2 years at X were not great, there was some improvement the 2nd year, but still not great. The 3rd year they won the A10.

Miller’s first year at Arizona they were 16-15. The next year they were 30-8 and elite 8.


If history is any indication, things WILL get better.


The school and the fan base just need to make sure he has all the tools that he needs. The game has changed and X nation needs to adapt to the changes.

[Xavier]

….last year was great. I don’t know why it’s so easily brushed away. We have been a 3 seed or better like 4 or 5 times. It was one of the better regular seasons X has ever had, we went to the BE championship and sweet 16. All after losing an all big East PF (Freemantle). Someone was on here saying he didn’t know if Sean could coach in the big East after that. Just bizarre

[OTRMUSKIE]

Why do I as a fan have to make sure Miller has the tools? My job as a fan is to be a fan. That is Xavier’s job not mine. College sports is about to be destroyed and all for greed. This isn’t going to end well unless they get this under control.

[XUGRAD80]

Why do I as a fan have to make sure Miller has the tools? My job as a fan is to be a fan. That is Xavier’s job not mine. College sports is about to be destroyed and all for greed. This isn’t going to end well unless they get this under control.


Yep, that’s the way it USED TO BE. But not anymore.

You can bury your head in the sand and hope it all goes away, but it’s not going to. It takes the right horses to win a race and X isn’t going to get much more than plow horses if they don’t have a strong NIL program. Where do you think they are going to get all the money from? Ticket sales? TV money? Parking? Concessions? SOME of it is going to have to come from donations from fans. SOME of that money will be the money that is donated to the NIL programs. Everybody understands that some fans won’t donate to the NIL. Some don’t have it. Some won’t as a matter of principle. But to say that it all falls on X is to ignore the fact that virtually every other program is going to have an NIL set up. Xavier NEEDS its own NIL just to stay competitive with the other schools in this conference. And nothing anyone here says is going to change that one simple fact.

[drudy23]

I think the days of 4+ recruits coming in are gone. I think we average 2-3 freshman a year. They are also in the mix for some PG from France. (Along with Gonzaga and Alabama).

But still, I expect 2-3 freshman guys as an average. Seeing only one recruit means little to nothing to me. The majority of new faces, especially rotational players, will always be transfers.

I don't know, we still need a solid market of Big East caliber high school recruits. I just don't see us being able to throw together a team every year and expect that to lead to sustained success. We need both, honestly.

You can't just blow up the roster every year, that seems desperate. At the same time, can we even approach what the program wants to approach keeping the roster in tact.

We need a couple "lightning in a bottle" players like the impact Souley had. Preferably for more than 1 season.

[Xavier]

Why do I as a fan have to make sure Miller has the tools? My job as a fan is to be a fan. That is Xavier’s job not mine. College sports is about to be destroyed and all for greed. This isn’t going to end well unless they get this under control.

It’s presented in a different way but it’s always been the fans/donors. Either through season tickets, donations, etc. that paid for basketball items (upgrades for Cintas, practice gym, coach salary).

[D-West & PO-Z]

….last year was great. I don’t know why it’s so easily brushed away. We have been a 3 seed or better like 4 or 5 times. It was one of the better regular seasons X has ever had, we went to the BE championship and sweet 16. All after losing an all big East PF (Freemantle). Someone was on here saying he didn’t know if Sean could coach in the big East after that. Just bizarre

Yeah, so weird people just ignore that 1st season after 4 freaking missed tourneys in a row.

[Xville]

With the ruling, what is keeping schools from just directly paying the players and getting rid of what I think a non-sustainable solution (collective)? The schools need to start paying for their own players. There is plenty of money available for them to do that.

[A Fan]

[QUOTE=Xville;778254]With the ruling, what is keeping schools from just directly paying the players and getting rid of what I think a non-sustainable solution (collective)? The schools need to start paying for their own players. There is plenty of money available for them to do that.[/QUOTEi
I imagine the ruling you are referring to is the Federal District Court in Tennessee. That ruling did not sanction” pay to play “ offers by the schools, just the collectives. The NCAA had forbidden collectives from offering the players money pre enrollment. UT was doing that. The court said it was an antitrust violation by the NCAA to prohibit it. So now the Collectives can negotiate with high school players and portal entrants pre enrollment. Agents can ask for offers from all schools for any player they represent.

[sirthought]

You can 100% have a NIL program without going to fans to ask for monthly contributions. If you're a fat cat and its just your thing, fine. If you're a business and you think it's good for your brand, fine. I encourage all others to keep their money in their wallet and see how it shakes out. If college sports fall, so be it.

[XUGRAD80]

You can 100% have a NIL program without going to fans to ask for monthly contributions. If you're a fat cat and its just your thing, fine. If you're a business and you think it's good for your brand, fine. I encourage all others to keep their money in their wallet and see how it shakes out. If college sports fall, so be it.

And I encourage ALL fans that can and want to, to contribute. I encourage those fans that don’t want to, to not do so, but to stop telling those that want to, not to.

The 2% initiative is driven by FANS. Not the schools. It was conceived by, organized by, and is directed by FANS. (Most of whom are alumni) Not the schools. If a FAN organizations wants to reach out to other fans for support….whats wrong with that?

[XUBison]

It’s presented in a different way but it’s always been the fans/donors. Either through season tickets, donations, etc. that paid for basketball items (upgrades for Cintas, practice gym, coach salary).

I thought the case for pay-for-play was that the athletic programs are *generating* so much revenue that the players should receive some of it; no?

[sirthought]

If a FAN organizations wants to reach out to other fans for support….whats wrong with that?

It's been implied on more than one post that folks are lame if they don't contribute. This whole approach is wrong minded. The whole idea of counting on the average fan to pay NIL is bad. This world has so many people in need. Guys that play D1 hoops are not in that category.

[Xville]

It's been implied on more than one post that folks are lame if they don't contribute. This whole approach is wrong minded. The whole idea of counting on the average fan to pay NIL is bad. This world has so many people in need. Guys that play D1 hoops are not in that category.

I 100% agree with you but imo people can do whatever the hell they want with their money imo.

Nil was not set up to be like this, it was supposed to be for players to make money off their nil. Instead, they are being paid to play not by the schools who make millions of them but by the average fan. Sounds insane to me.

[D-West & PO-Z]

It's been implied on more than one post that folks are lame if they don't contribute. This whole approach is wrong minded. The whole idea of counting on the average fan to pay NIL is bad. This world has so many people in need. Guys that play D1 hoops are not in that category.

I haven't seen a single post that implied that. I may have just missed it though, hard to see everything.

As always people should do what they want with their money (as long as they have it and it isn't hurting their family to do so).

[XUGRAD80]

It's been implied on more than one post that folks are lame if they don't contribute. This whole approach is wrong minded. The whole idea of counting on the average fan to pay NIL is bad. This world has so many people in need. Guys that play D1 hoops are not in that category.

People aren’t free to do both? You mean I can’t give money to charities and also contribute to the NIL if I choose to?

That’s the point….its an individual choice to donate to the NIL or not.

[XUGRAD80]

From the Musketeergear.com site:

“THE PROCESS

The NCAA’s recent approval of Name, Image, and Likeness gives us fans the collective opportunity to help support the program like never before – and play a role in reaching the Final Four and winning a National Championship.
But we’re going to do it like we do everything else: The Xavier Way.
That means positioning Xavier as the world-class leader in showcasing NIL the way it should be done – going far beyond just profit from sales.
Let’s break it down,

Musketeer Gear was created for student-athletes, by student-athletes.

Student Athletes will learn new business and marketing skills from launch to delivery through internships and collaborative projects.
Their voice and creative lens will be empowered to build and deepen relationships with fans through designing products and experiences.
And of course they will profit from the hard work.
While their vision begins with basketball, it certainly doesn’t end there.
Now as fans, we can rally around the team we love so much in this new way – and in doing so, we’ll help shape more of the plays and moments we’ll never forget

Your support on MusketeerGear.com enables our current and future student-athletes to be the very best they can be . . . on-and-off the court.
We are Xavier Musketeers.
All for one . . . And one for all”

This is ONE example of how the NIL program works. I’d recommend going to the Final 2% website and reading how they work to.

TANSTAAFL…….there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch. Even for these athletes.

[XUBison]

People aren’t free to do both? You mean I can’t give money to charities and also contribute to the NIL if I choose to?

That’s the point….its an individual choice to donate to the NIL or not.

Sure, as it is my *choice* to elucidate the vapidness required to make a “charitable” contribution to a slush-fund designed to pay basketball players

[XUBison]

From the Musketeergear.com site:

“THE PROCESS

The NCAA’s recent approval of Name, Image, and Likeness gives us fans the collective opportunity to help support the program like never before – and play a role in reaching the Final Four and winning a National Championship.
But we’re going to do it like we do everything else: The Xavier Way.
That means positioning Xavier as the world-class leader in showcasing NIL the way it should be done – going far beyond just profit from sales.
Let’s break it down,

Musketeer Gear was created for student-athletes, by student-athletes.

Student Athletes will learn new business and marketing skills from launch to delivery through internships and collaborative projects.
Their voice and creative lens will be empowered to build and deepen relationships with fans through designing products and experiences.
And of course they will profit from the hard work.
While their vision begins with basketball, it certainly doesn’t end there.
Now as fans, we can rally around the team we love so much in this new way – and in doing so, we’ll help shape more of the plays and moments we’ll never forget

Your support on MusketeerGear.com enables our current and future student-athletes to be the very best they can be . . . on-and-off the court.
We are Xavier Musketeers.
All for one . . . And one for all”

This is ONE example of how the NIL program works. I’d recommend going to the Final 2% website and reading how they work to.

TANSTAAFL…….there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch. Even for these athletes.

The Musketeer Gear concept sounds great, really. I’m sure the tens of hundreds of dollars it generates will not contribute a meaningful amount to the new pay-for-play arms race in basketball, but I imagine other student-athletes would appreciate the experience and extra cash. Not to mention, the fans who support it receive something of value in return.

Look, I am not against NIL. I mean, when I was in high school and always played as Nebraska on NCAA College Football, do you think it was lost on me that the incredible fast/athletic black option quarterback wearing #15 represented Tommie Frazier? I always wondered why the players names were not included in the game/on the jerseys. I was stunned to later find out they received no compensation for having their obvious likenesses represented in the game. What a travesty!

But I see no connection to NIL with these so-called collectives. They are an obvious pay-for-play scheme, and just another monster to feed in the growing grift that has become college athletics. I suppose I have given up on any opposition to pay-for-play in college sports at this point, but then it’s time for the athletic programs to do so out of the revenue they generate. Asking fans to subsidize ANY OF IT like this is grotesque.

[Xville]

The Musketeer Gear concept sounds great, really. I’m sure the tens of hundreds of dollars it generates will not contribute a meaningful amount to the new pay-for-play arms race in basketball, but I imagine other student-athletes would appreciate the experience and extra cash. Not to mention, the fans who support it receive something of value in return.

Look, I am not against NIL. I mean, when I was in high school and always played as Nebraska on NCAA College Football, do you think it was lost on me that the incredible fast/athletic black option quarterback wearing #15 represented Tommie Frazier? I always wondered why the players names were not included in the game/on the jerseys. I was stunned to later find out they received no compensation for having their obvious likenesses represented in the game. What a travesty!

But I see no connection to NIL with these so-called collectives. They are an obvious pay-for-play scheme, and just another monster to feed in the growing grift that has become college athletics. I suppose I have given up on any opposition to pay-for-play in college sports at this point, but then it’s time for the athletic programs to do so out of the revenue they generate. Asking fans to subsidize ANY OF IT like this is grotesque.

Amen. This collective nonsense is not what nil was supposed to be.

[XUGRAD80]

Did either of you two go to the Final 2% site and read anything there, like I suggested?



And as I’ve pointed out before…….ALL of the money that a school might use to pay players would be coming from the FANS, either directly in the form of ticket sales, etc, or indirectly from TV/radio and the money the broadcasters generate through advertising sales.

You’re just kidding yourself if you think that you’re not already contributing money to college athletics. The money any athletic department generates comes from the fans and nowhere else.

[Xville]

Did either of you two go to the Final 2% site and read anything there, like I suggested?



And as I’ve pointed out before…….ALL of the money that a school might use to pay players would be coming from the FANS, either directly in the form of ticket sales, etc, or indirectly from TV/radio and the money the broadcasters generate through advertising sales.

You’re just kidding yourself if you think that you’re not already contributing money to college athletics. The money any athletic department generates comes from the fans and nowhere else.

I’m aware I’m contributing money. It’s just a bit different when you’re handing Tommy and sally 10 dollars a month for nothing. At least when I go to games it’s for fun with my kids, or when I donate to the athletic fund it’s going so that Tommy and sally can play the sport, or the coaches salaries or athletic facilities etc.

This is completely different.

If one day god willing this collective nonsense is gone and the schools pay directly and it’s build into tickets or whatever, then fine.

[XUGRAD80]

I really don’t see any difference between donating to an NIL, where the money goes directly to the players OR contributions to a school and the school then paying the players. Other than in the latter we are cutting out the middleman.

But I respect you guys for being consistent in your opposition. I just don’t understand it.

Can we just leave it at that and move on?

[Xville]

https://theathletic.com/5321481/2024/03/07/college-football-donors-nil-fans/?source=targeted_email&campaign=9235165&userId=408414

Insightful and what I have been saying as to why this model is not sustainable. I know this is about football but the issues are still the same.

IMO anyone who thinks this model is sustainable is not living in reality

[xukeith]

https://theathletic.com/5321481/2024/03/07/college-football-donors-nil-fans/?source=targeted_email&campaign=9235165&userId=408414

Insightful and what I have been saying as to why this model is not sustainable. I know this is about football but the issues are still the same.

IMO anyone who thinks this model is sustainable is not living in reality

Makes sense. Why would people pay for season tickets, passes, and other college stuff knowing that NIL fundraising needs more and more money?
I imagine many fans stop spending directly to the university if they then want to pay directly to NIL funds.

[drudy23]

How long can you go back to the same well?

I'm constantly shocked by how much money people have - can I have some? Can this Board start a collective for me? I used to be pretty good when I could run and jump without pain. I'd average at least 1.1 points. Is there a market for washed up 40 somethings?

I'd even take less if it came with some authentic games shorts in every style.

[GoMuskies]

I'm constantly shocked by how much money people have - can I have some?

LOL, I definitely don't have enough to give to a bunch of college kids I don't know....or yet care about. I also don't have enough to give to 40-something washed up never weres! :)

These kids were supposed to do ads or some kind of productive work to get paid. They weren't supposed to get handed money to play. Fuck that.

Get me a Xavier beer with the players names/likenesses on it, and I'm in. But I don't understand giving money for nothing. Personally.

[noteggs]

https://theathletic.com/5321481/2024/03/07/college-football-donors-nil-fans/?source=targeted_email&campaign=9235165&userId=408414

Insightful and what I have been saying as to why this model is not sustainable. I know this is about football but the issues are still the same.

IMO anyone who thinks this model is sustainable is not living in reality

Interesting article so thanks for sharing. Guess the tours of the updated facilities are vastly discounted now. Recruit or transfer “great facilities, but how much.” Obviously not all.

[Xavier]

These are the tournaments we need to get in. 1 million NIL to the winning team.

https://x.com/fos/status/1766232265418256748?s=46&t=KSvFnm-Lpouy3B6BA2rQBg

[GoMuskies]

Maybe Dusty May is staying at FAU after all.

[Xville]

These are the tournaments we need to get in. 1 million NIL to the winning team.

https://x.com/fos/status/1766232265418256748?s=46&t=KSvFnm-Lpouy3B6BA2rQBg

Can we stop with the farce that there isn’t pay for play? Clearly this has nothing to do with any kind of nil. This is just a tournament to play college basketball players.

Let’s get rid of the dumb collectives and have universities start paying the players. NCAA clearly wouldn’t win in court if they tried to shut it down anyways

[X-band '01]

We might get to a point soon where we see similar prize money at stake for other in-season tournaments as well. I'd have to think Xavier would want to get back to 8-team exempt tournaments if there's money at stake for a tournament like Maui or Atlantis, for example.

[Xavier]

Can we stop with the farce that there isn’t pay for play? Clearly this has nothing to do with any kind of nil. This is just a tournament to play college basketball players.

Let’s get rid of the dumb collectives and have universities start paying the players. NCAA clearly wouldn’t win in court if they tried to shut it down anyways

I don’t think anyone doesn’t see it as pay for play. And if the money comes right from the university or from “NIL collective” it will still be mainly from donors. Just like when X needed more money to pay coaches, arena upgrades, practice facility, etc….it’s still mainly paid for through donors.

[Xville]

I don’t think anyone doesn’t see it as pay for play. And if the money comes right from the university or from “NIL collective” it will still be mainly from donors. Just like when X needed more money to pay coaches, arena upgrades, practice facility, etc….it’s still mainly paid for through donors.

Revenue sharing needs to start happening asap. Universities are making an insane amount of money with tv money etc. time for them to start sharing

[A Fan]

Revenue sharing needs to start happening asap. Universities are making an insane amount of money with tv money etc. time for them to start sharing

If Xavier’s men’s basketball program went to a revenue sharing model for its players you would have to know the whether the loss of that revenue to Xavier ( which would go to the players) would impact the other sports .Title IX mandates that educational institutions that receive federal funding cannot discriminate on the basis of sex in any educational program or activity, including athletics. This means that both male and female athletes must have equal opportunities and benefits, including compensation, scholarships, facilities, and resources.
If men's basketball players are being compensated, Title IX requires that female basketball players must also have the opportunity to receive similar compensation. Would “ similar” compensation be the same revenue sharing model or the same dollar payment ? And would the loss of revenue to the university reduce the scholarships available for the other sports.?
And since if the collectives are actually an affiliate of the university and they are now paying men’s basketball players to play basketball ( the players have no objectively measured NIL value commensurate with the money they now receive) is that not now a Title lX violation ?
All of the issues will be sorted out soon including whether all players are university employees.

[paulxu]

These are the tournaments we need to get in. 1 million NIL to the winning team.

https://x.com/fos/status/1766232265418256748?s=46&t=KSvFnm-Lpouy3B6BA2rQBg

I guess you can play in more than one MTE? Have to believe those teams are already committed for one in 2024.

[XUBison]

Revenue sharing needs to start happening asap. Universities are making an insane amount of money with tv money etc. time for them to start sharing


…And if the money comes right from the university or from “NIL collective” it will still be mainly from donors. Just like when X needed more money to pay coaches, arena upgrades, practice facility, etc….it’s still mainly paid for through donors.

Hmmm… how is it both can be true? Heck of a business model.

[A Fan]

https://theathletic.com/5321481/2024/03/07/college-football-donors-nil-fans/?source=targeted_email&campaign=9235165&userId=408414

Insightful and what I have been saying as to why this model is not sustainable. I know this is about football but the issues are still the same.

IMO anyone who thinks this model is sustainable is not living in reality
I am not a big Rick Pitino fan but his sentiments are refelective of what many posters have said. It would be interesting to ask Sean Miller : “ Is he happy being a college basketball coach in the new world”?
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRTdsDj8/

[MHettel]

I am not a big Rick Pitino fan but his sentiments are refelective of what many posters have said. It would be interesting to ask Sean Miller : “ Is he happy being a college basketball coach in the new world”?
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRTdsDj8/

Some of us called it. Pretty much exactly how Pitino explains it.

Anyone care to rehash that? We could find some old posts to see how they aged.

[Xavier]

They are getting paid what someone is willing to pay. It’s the beginning stages, it will take some years of figuring out. If we were in a lower level division, I think I’d be more upset. You take a chance on a kid with potential, help him grow and then he bolts. But that was happening anyways. I think the sitting out to transfer rule being eliminated has as big a role to the changing landscape as NIL.

And at the end of the day, I’m not really concerned about competitive imbalances. There is so much talent that you can find a solid group of guys (different systems, different styles) that you can compete with the highest paid teams just fine. Kentucky had had more talent than most anyone under Cal which has gotten them 1 championship.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Some of us called it. Pretty much exactly how Pitino explains it.

Anyone care to rehash that? We could find some old posts to see how they aged.

Yes, you said college sports were ruined forever, yet here you are positing and as invested as ever.

[MHettel]

Yes, you said college sports were ruined forever, yet here you are positing and as invested as ever.

It’s called gloating

[D-West & PO-Z]

I am not a big Rick Pitino fan but his sentiments are refelective of what many posters have said. It would be interesting to ask Sean Miller : “ Is he happy being a college basketball coach in the new world”?
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRTdsDj8/

I'd venture to guess Miller has plenty of money to do whatever he wants if he wasn't. He was itching to get back. I'd say he's doing what he loves.

College coaches jobs got harder bc of new rules. No one wants their job to be harder, so of course some are vocal about not liking new rules. Not sure why that is surprising or newsworthy?

[D-West & PO-Z]

It’s called gloating

You certainly have a way with that, even when wrong!

[XUGRAD80]

Well Boo Hoo for slick Rick. Guess you’ll just have to suck it up as a 72 year old and finally compete on an equal level with others. This is the same guy that earlier in the season bragged about how much money he could raise for the NIL as a New York City school and said that they could compete with anyone else in the country for players. He sent several of the players he inherited packing and brought in a whole new team. Guess he didn’t realize that his players could now choose to stay or go on their own and he wasn’t going to be able to control them like he used to. Not having any fun Rick? To bad. How many times have YOU chased the money and left the kids for another school?

I’ve been against college athletes getting paid to play since day one. I don’t like it either. However, I’m not one to stick my head in the sand, complain about it when I can’t change it, and just hope it goes away and we return to the good old days when coaches had all the power and the kids had no choices available to them after they signed a scholarship contract. I still don’t like them getting paid, but the courts say that the laws entitle them to compensation for the NIL, so deal with it or change the laws.

What I really like though, is the ability of kids to leave someplace where they aren’t happy and move to someplace where they can be happy…..without having to ask for permission from their former school/coach to do so. Life, and especially a college career, is way too short to be stuck in a bad relationship. College coaches make all kinds of promises while recruiting a kid and often the reality doesn’t match up to the promises. In the past the kid was stuck. Not any more.

We fans sit back and watch these kids come and go over our 10-20-30-50 years of fandom and forget that while we have been fans for decades, they are only players for 4-5 years of their lives. They aren’t pros that can have an unlimited number of years of playing for the same team (if they choose to) and can really have a “career”. These kids are limited to 4-5 years and then shown the door. No matter how much they might want to stay. “Nope, sorry, you’ve got to go now, goodbye and good luck. Now go find a job. Oh by the way we’ve already found your replacement. Hope you come back and see us again. We will give you a good seat BEHIND the bench. Thanks for the memories.”

Is it too much to allow the kids to be happy while they are in college? To have a little freedom and control over their short lives as a college athlete? Or does that make your job…..where you get paid millions to coach a GAME……to tough on you? Suck it up Ricky boy and stop your whining.

[xukeith]

So are there any realistic solutions to this? Any common sense ?

[Xville]

Rick is arguably the best college coach that has ever walked the planet, so I respect that side of him. However, he is one of the biggest pos of a human being so unless it's about the actual game, I don't give credence to anything that he says. The immediate eligibility of a transfer has more to do with the "raiding" of the mid and lower levels than NIL imo. As far as NIL itself, the only issue I see is the everyday fan having to pay for it when these schools make enough money. I don't see how people believe it's ruined anything or made it less exciting. If anything, it has allowed more schools to be at the table.

[XUGRAD80]

Rick is arguably the best college coach that has ever walked the planet, so I respect that side of him. However, he is one of the biggest pos of a human being so unless it's about the actual game, I don't give credence to anything that he says. The immediate eligibility of a transfer has more to do with the "raiding" of the mid and lower levels than NIL imo. As far as NIL itself, the only issue I see is the everyday fan having to pay for it when these schools make enough money. I don't see how people believe it's ruined anything or made it less exciting. If anything, it has allowed more schools to be at the table.

Rick went off on SJU for its bad facilities just a month ago. Does anyone think that it was because he really cares about anything other than how it helps or hurts his recruiting? He wants the good old days where kids just said “yes sir” and never ever made a decision on their own. Where once he had them recruited they had no say over the rest of their time as college players. He doesn’t want it legal to pay kids because if it is he can’t gain an advantage by doing it under the table. Rick on cares about himself, 1st, 2nd, and the Hell with everyone else 3rd. Does anyone really believe that he is concerned about schools in the MAC or other leagues?

[MHettel]

Rick went off on SJU for its bad facilities just a month ago. Does anyone think that it was because he really cares about anything other than how it helps or hurts his recruiting? He wants the good old days where kids just said “yes sir” and never ever made a decision on their own. Where once he had them recruited they had no say over the rest of their time as college players. He doesn’t want it legal to pay kids because if it is he can’t gain an advantage by doing it under the table. Rick on cares about himself, 1st, 2nd, and the Hell with everyone else 3rd. Does anyone really believe that he is concerned about schools in the MAC or other leagues?

Jay wright left for the same reason.

But rant on!

[XUGRAD80]

Jay wright left for the same reason.

But rant on!


How the heck do you know why Wright left? Do you know him personally? Has he made a public statement giving his reasons? All you’re basing that on is the words of a known liar and the speculations of talking heads on TV.

But even IF Wright left because he didn’t want to deal with the new world order, and he really was concerned with how it would effect others, that doesn’t mean that Pittino really cares about those things. Wright is highly respected. He has never been accused of, let alone found guilty of, cheating. He hasn’t been a job jumper for money. He doesn’t seem to be a hypocrite in anything he says or has done. The same can’t be said for Pittino.

[Xville]

Why do some of you care about multimillionaires complaining about NIL/transfer portal anyways? Are you best buds with them? Who gives a shit. Oh no Wright left, Pitino is upset. So?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Jay wright left for the same reason.

But rant on!

Who cares? Seriously, Jay Wright leaving has literally zero impact on the game of college basketball.

I literally cannot for the life of me understand why you care that coaches are complaining that their jobs are harder. It is so strange.

[MHettel]

Who cares? Seriously, Jay Wright leaving has literally zero impact on the game of college basketball.

I literally cannot for the life of me understand why you care that coaches are complaining that their jobs are harder. It is so strange.

But yet here you are, like always. Pretending that there is nothing to see here. In the meantime from every corner of the internet from coaches to media to politicians to the actual NCAA is saying that it’s the wild west, and is not sustainable.

But it good for the players, right! Those poor guys!

As for Pitino he simply was speaking the Truth. Is he a hypocrite? Of course he is. Does that diminish the truthness of the truth? Of course not. But you tried like hell to attack the message because you don’t like the messenger. Then I bring up Jay Wright and it’s suddenly irrelevant that he’s squeaky clean, but still totally relevant that Pitino is a scumbag.

2 years ago I predicted EXACTLY what we are seeing unfold. I could have written the script for Pitino in 2020.

Wait till the portal opens a we can start tracking all the mid-major all conference players that wind up on the top teams with the biggest payroll.

The denial is astounding. That’s actually why I keep coming back

[Xville]

But yet here you are, like always. Pretending that there is nothing to see here. In the meantime from every corner of the internet from coaches to media to politicians to the actual NCAA is saying that it’s the wild west, and is not sustainable.

But it good for the players, right! Those poor guys!

As for Pitino he simply was speaking the Truth. Is he a hypocrite? Of course he is. Does that diminish the truthness of the truth? Of course not. But you tried like hell to attack the message because you don’t like the messenger. Then I bring up Jay Wright and it’s suddenly irrelevant that he’s squeaky clean, but still totally relevant that Pitino is a scumbag.

2 years ago I predicted EXACTLY what we are seeing unfold. I could have written the script for Pitino in 2020.

Wait till the portal opens a we can start tracking all the mid-major all conference players that wind up on the top teams with the biggest payroll.

The denial is astounding. That’s actually why I keep coming back

Yeah that's not really any different than the last three or four decades. The only difference now is the immediate eligibility rule which has zero to do with nil and that more schools can offer money. So, not every great mid-major all conference player is going to 4-5 schools...the wealth is being spread out and so there is more parity. That's a good thing.

somehow the mid-majors are still doing ok. College of Charleston about to make their second in a row, Drake second in a row, FAU seems to be just fine. The mountain west is turning into a big time conference.

What exactly do you think people are in denial about?

I did have a nice chuckle when you mentioned coaches, media, politicians and the NCAA as some kind of evidence though so thank you for that.

[MHettel]

You seem to not grasp the difference between your opinion and truth.

13-7!

Just in case we want to get into any discussions about credibility

[Xville]

13-7!

Just in case we want to get into any discussions about credibility

Here are some of your incredible credible quotes, so please try some new material about one hopeful prediction I had.

If anything, we rely more on the guys that were good early.

No development whatsoever. Team and individual.

Will have to see how this season ends. Imperative that we finish strong. If we wilt down the stretch, it changes my opinion of Miller.

Easy to win in the A-10 with the talent he had at X. Even easier to win at Zona in the Big 12. Winning with average talent is what separates the great coaches from the rest


You should tell Miller this nonsense to his face. You have zero credibility.

[XUGRAD80]

My only point on Pitino was regarding his hypocrisy. When he came to SJU he sent all but 1-2 of the returning players packing, brought 3-4 of his Iona players with him, recruited transfers from all over the place......and then has the audacity to complain about how hard it's making his job and how it's bad for the smaller schools in the lower leagues.

Not exactly the person whose comments I would post up to show how bad the new world is.

On the other hand....FAU was able to keep all of their players who got to the final 4 last year. Why? because of the relationship they all had with their coach. All of them could have left for money, better facilities, and more exposure and all of them decided to stay. The key there was its was the decision by each PLAYER to stay or go. I don't hear the FAU coach complaining about the NIL and transfer rules.

In the past it has always been on the coaches to decide, and the players had little or no part in that decision. Coaches ran off the players they didn't want and replaced them with players they did want. The year-to-year scholarship system gave all the power to the coaches. Players did what they were told, or they didn't get their scholarships renewed. Player performed to the level the coaches wanted, or they were not renewed. Not every player transferred because they wanted to. Without the transfer rules becoming laxer we would not have all the movement we have. The NIL has not caused things to change near as much as the transfer rule changes have. Even if we didn't have the new NIL system we would still have a lot of movement.

My prediction: We will see the scholarship athletes deemed by the courts to be employees of the schools. We will see 2- or 3-year contracts signed by the HS players and schools when they come out of HS. The players will become free agents at the end of those contracts.

[Xavier]

Wait till the portal opens a we can start tracking all the mid-major all conference players that wind up on the top teams with the biggest payroll.

The denial is astounding. That’s actually why I keep coming back

Do you think players just started getting paid two years ago?

Dickinson was the most coveted transfer last year. Kansas spent the most to get him. Resulted in Selfs worst year. (6th in Big 12). Is that what you’re worried about?

Or mid majors no longer having a chance? Sure. Easy to say if you just disregard FAU and SDST in the final four last year…how often have we had two mid majors in the final four before NIL?

[XUBison]

…somehow the mid-majors are still doing ok. College of Charleston about to make their second in a row, Drake second in a row, FAU seems to be just fine…

College of Charleston playing for the AQ in the CAA proves what, exactly? The CAA still gets an AQ? That is some superior bluster right there. Well done. .

[Xville]

College of Charleston playing for the AQ in the CAA proves what, exactly? The CAA still gets an AQ? That is some superior bluster right there. Well done. .

If all the mid major teams are getting raided, Charleston still seems to be doing ok by probably making the tourney two years in a row. If all their good players left which is what hett says happens to all the mid major teams how are they still on track to win 27 and go to two straight tourneys?

[Xavgrad08]

Jay wright left for the same reason.

But rant on!

I don't think Jay Wright retiring proves anything. Wright's comments on NIL & transfer portal have been positive about how it will potentially help college basketball.

Wright said “I think we are gonna go through a couple of years where it feels crazy because of the combination of NIL and the transfer portal,” Wright said. “It’s gonna stay crazy compared to what they were. But I think we’re going to see some benefits to all of that. We’re seeing all these guys staying in college now. You’ve got four things as a player: make money, mature as a person, mature as a player and get an education. There’s positive sides".

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigeast/2022/05/17/jay-wright-villanova-transfer-rule-nil/9794688002/

In a different article Wright said about the transfer portal and NIL "I think those changes are eventually going to be really good for college basketball," Wright also said the current climate of college basketball played a small role in his decision to retire. In the article Wright said he has considered retiring for a few years.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33785790/jay-wright-says-retired-villanova-basketball-coach-the-edge-always-had

[XUGRAD80]

If it’s all about the NIL…..How come we see many D2 and low level D1 athletes move to upper D1 schools in other sports where there is no NIL money? Could it be that the kids aren’t chasing money and are instead just chasing a chance to compete against the best? Movement like that has been legal by NCAA rules for many years in some sports. Yet many of these sports are doing just as well as they ever have.

The transfer and NIL rules are not going to destroy college sports. Change them? Yes! This is a new world and there are going to be some pains along the way. There are going to some unforeseen and unwanted consequences. It’s not going to go as smoothly as all of us would want it to. But these rule changes are not going to destroy what is a multibillion dollar industry. People said that free agency would destroy pro sports. Did that happen? Nope! It won’t destroy college sports either.

[D-West & PO-Z]

On the other hand....FAU was able to keep all of their players who got to the final 4 last year. Why? because of the relationship they all had with their coach. All of them could have left for money, better facilities, and more exposure and all of them decided to stay. The key there was its was the decision by each PLAYER to stay or go. I don't hear the FAU coach complaining about the NIL and transfer rules.




Do you think players just started getting paid two years ago?

Dickinson was the most coveted transfer last year. Kansas spent the most to get him. Resulted in Selfs worst year. (6th in Big 12). Is that what you’re worried about?

Or mid majors no longer having a chance? Sure. Easy to say if you just disregard FAU and SDST in the final four last year…how often have we had two mid majors in the final four before NIL?


If all the mid major teams are getting raided, Charleston still seems to be doing ok by probably making the tourney two years in a row. If all their good players left which is what hett says happens to all the mid major teams how are they still on track to win 27 and go to two straight tourneys?


I don't think Jay Wright retiring proves anything. Wright's comments on NIL & transfer portal have been positive about how it will potentially help college basketball.

Wright said “I think we are gonna go through a couple of years where it feels crazy because of the combination of NIL and the transfer portal,” Wright said. “It’s gonna stay crazy compared to what they were. But I think we’re going to see some benefits to all of that. We’re seeing all these guys staying in college now. You’ve got four things as a player: make money, mature as a person, mature as a player and get an education. There’s positive sides".

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigeast/2022/05/17/jay-wright-villanova-transfer-rule-nil/9794688002/

In a different article Wright said about the transfer portal and NIL "I think those changes are eventually going to be really good for college basketball," Wright also said the current climate of college basketball played a small role in his decision to retire. In the article Wright said he has considered retiring for a few years.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33785790/jay-wright-says-retired-villanova-basketball-coach-the-edge-always-had

Using quotes, rosters, data, anything factual is all useless when debating with Hett. He's right, you're wrong, college basketball is ruined and he's gloating, evidence be damned!