How long to gel?

[MHettel]

How long will it take this team to gel? That seems to be a real question with a wide range of opinions...

Some here have declared they plan to be patient and have tempered their early expectations due to what is expected to be an extended "getting to know you" phase with this roster of so many new players.

I for one am not as concerned about this, and think there should be some urgency around the early games with no excuses....(Travis Steele makes excuses).

They way I look at it, every freshman EVER steps on the court with 12 other guys he's never played with. Many of them flourish.

Our 3 transfer players have 10 years of college experience and played in 320 career games with a 61% winning percentage while playing with a combined 47 different teammates that averaged at least 10 minutes in a season. These 3 guys will be unfazed at having new faces around them.

Claude and Boum stepped in last year with all new teammates on a team where EVERYONE had a new COACH. Didnt seem to matter.

Im not concerned about this. I think the team we see early will be pretty darn close to the team we see late, notwithstanding the NORMAL changes that occur on ANY TEAM in EVERY YEAR. I think some individuals will emerge or mature during the year, especially the young guys that are getting their first taste of competition at this level. But that is nothing unique to THIS team THIS year.

Counting Claude, 4 of our 5 starters have played 355 career college games. Plug in whoever you want into the 5th starting role.

[Xavier]

How many Xavier freshman have flourished over the years? Especially in the first half of the season?

[Xville]

Disagree. Claude and boum stepped into a situation where most of the team had just played together the year prior and had won a championship (even thought it was the nit)

This year, none of them have played together. Some are freshmen ( top 100 guys not top 10 kentucky or duke type guys), some are transfers, and some are international guys who have to not only adjust to high d1 basketball, but deal with the culture shock of being in the us.

To act like this is just the same ole same ole and something every team every year has to deal with is disingenuous imo.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Disagree. Claude and boum stepped into a situation where most of the team had just played together the year prior and had won a championship (even thought it was the nit)

This year, none of them have played together. Some are freshmen ( top 100 guys not top 10 kentucky or duke type guys), some are transfers, and some are international guys who have to not only adjust to high d1 basketball, but deal with the culture shock of being in the us.

To act like this is just the same ole same ole and something every team every year has to deal with is disingenuous imo.

Agreed.

I feel like we've seen in time and again at Xavier (other than with Steele) that Xavier teams have really improved and play better in March than December.

Plus all the injuries (not even talking about Hunter and Free) and guys needing to work back in and gel together.

Plus the start to the BE schedule is brutal. 5 of the first 9 on the road (where I don't think we will see a lot of wins this year) and one of the 4 home games is against the top 10 defending national champs. I think its very reasonable to see us open BE play 3-6. I think we will improve though and go around 10-10 in conference which I think will get us in.

I think the expectation should always be tourney bid then anything can happen. But I think this is an unusual team setup where so many were lost to draft/graduation/injury that having only 1 guy back who played last year is a lot to overcome and may take some time to gel.

[American X]

You massively discount losing both Freemantle and Hunter. This team has near zero continuity. If Xavier had either of those guys, it would be a different story.

It will take getting through the non-conference schedule and after Christmas break to gel. Purdue, Las Vegas, Houston, the Shootout, and first Big East game at SJU will be just trying to survive. If we get to Big East play with some coherence and get a .500 conference record, then we have a shot at a bid.

[MHettel]

To act like this is just the same ole same ole and something every team every year has to deal with is disingenuous imo.

Well, I thought I knew the definition of disingenuous. So I looked it up and it turns out….that I did.

There is nothing disingenuous about my view. You can disagree with me as much as you’d please.

But I’m not declaring one thing while thinking another.

I don’t think this team will need, or deserves, any built in excuses to rationalize poor play. In fact poor play hasn’t even happened. And I don’t expect it to. Like every team, every year, there will be some degree of assimilating new players. Then it clicks. If these were ALL freshmen with no experience, then I’d take a different position. But 3/5ths of our starting lineup have played with almost 50 other college players. And Claude has a full year of D1 experience.

I think the foreign guys will be just fine as well. They have played for clubs or universities or for their national teams in world events. D1 college ball will be different, but not necessarily more difficult.

Miller implemented his system right out of the gate last year and it was humming from day 1. 13 “new” guys running that system after many had failed in the Steele method.

I’m not saying that some teams (or MOST teams) that are playing together for the first time won’t take a while to gel. I’m saying THIS team has a few unique characteristics that I think will be able to accelerate the familiarity and “identity”.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Disagree. Claude and boum stepped into a situation where most of the team had just played together the year prior and had won a championship (even thought it was the nit)

This year, none of them have played together. Some are freshmen ( top 100 guys not top 10 kentucky or duke type guys), some are transfers, and some are international guys who have to not only adjust to high d1 basketball, but deal with the culture shock of being in the us.

To act like this is just the same ole same ole and something every team every year has to deal with is disingenuous imo.

Poor choice of words. A simple difference of opinion does not make one or both parties disingenuous.

[Xville]

Maybe I’m not understanding mhettel’s point then. Seems to me that it is being implied that this situation the team is in, isn’t different than really any other year. I think that’s ignoring some pretty vast differences than prior years. I think that’s disingenuous. If i misunderstood, then my bad.

[GIMMFD]

Even with the experience of all the transfers, they haven't played TOGETHER, and it'll take some time to pick up on each other's tendencies, etc. I think there was a play where Claude whipped a pass into Ousmane with some heat behind it right by the rim, and he didn't expect it to be that hot and couldn't hold onto it.. I think some stuff like that will be common in the beginning. There's just way too many new faces to not have a little bit of a transition period, though as mentioned it does help that Miller's system is much more fluid than Steele's was. I think they'll grow and play some fun basketball by March, there's obviously some limitations, but definitely some flashes of excitement in that first game. It'll be interesting to watch them progress this year.

I will say though, this team will go as Claude goes, he's going to have to fill that Colby Jones role of looking smooth in all aspects to really get things going. If game one was any indication, he could have a monster year.

[XUGRAD80]

If the past is any indication, we can expect Miller to have settled into a lineup and rotation by the end of December. So you could say that is when they will “gel”. But even after that happens I expect them to continue to improve as a team, and as individuals. Hopefully they peak for the season come the end of February and in March.

[paulxu]

Not sure Lunardi is a good barometer. But when Hunter and Free were coming back, we were a projected 7 seed.
Now we're the last team in.

[sirthought]

I think we could count our basketball blessings if this team is fully gelled and playing slick by the end of the regular season. They are going to be inconsistent with every opponent that figures out ways to dig into their weaknesses. (Right now that looks like poor outside shooting.)

There have been some good looking freshmen over the years, but those guys are not seen often, especially on a team that doesn't have other proven options. Even our transfers will be really hitting some uncharted waters for them. The foreign kids far from home and eager to click right away is stressful. Hopefully they'll handle it all well.

I'm not seeing the personal interactions, but it's a good sign everyone appears to be really trying to work together and support one another. That isn't always the vibe I get.

[nuts4xu]

For as long as I have been watching Xavier basketball, I have looked at Christmas break as the time when our team makes the most strides.

By then they have played roughly 1/3 of their games, and have a good idea of their strengths/weaknesses.

The break allows the team to focus solely on basketball and provides an opportunity for the players to bond.

I always look at the break as our best chance to gel. We have some big games between now and then. I still think we will find a way to get our shit together enough to win some of those big games and give ourselves a chance to make a run into the tournament.

[MADXSTER]

For as long as I have been watching Xavier basketball, I have looked at Christmas break as the time when our team makes the most strides.

By then they have played roughly 1/3 of their games, and have a good idea of their strengths/weaknesses.

The break allows the team to focus solely on basketball and provides an opportunity for the players to bond.

I always look at the break as our best chance to gel. We have some big games between now and then. I still think we will find a way to get our shit together enough to win some of those big games and give ourselves a chance to make a run into the tournament.

This ^

[xukeith]

For as long as I have............

I always look at the break as our best chance to gel. We have some big games between now and then. I still think we will find a way to get our shit together enough to win some of those big games and give ourselves a chance to make a run into the tournament.

How many wins vs. Houston, UC, and Purdue would be minimally accepted for a team who has their shit together?

I say one win out of those 3 and the 2 losses are not by more than 15 points

[D-West & PO-Z]

How many wins vs. Houston, UC, and Purdue would be minimally accepted for a team who has their shit together?

I say one win out of those 3 and the 2 losses are not by more than 15 points

Have to beat UC at home (even though this is the most nervous I have been for that game at Cintas in 20ish years).

Winning against Houston or Purdue would be icing on the cake. Staying competitive would be a good sign.

Hoping Lazar is back by Vegas and gives us a better shot (also at home) beating Houston than Purdue.

[Xville]

Not worried about uc. They are supposed to suck, like most years. We beat them, everything else to me is gravy in terms of the big games before the change in calendar. I don’t expect them to beat houston or Purdue, but I do expect them to keep both games close (around 7-8 points or less)

[UCGRAD4X]

Are there a couple of decent players trying to get eligibility at sUCks?

[XUGRAD80]

Are there a couple of decent players trying to get eligibility at sUCks?

UC has 2 bigs…one from Temple and one from Southern Utah St….that they are hoping to get eligible. But they are 2nd time transfers and have already been denied. They are in appeal right now. Without those 2 players they still have a couple of holdover bigs from last year, but beyond them are really thin up front. With them, they could be pretty decent. Not upper level in the Big12, but still decent. Most likely an NIT level team either way.

[xudash]

For as long as I have been watching Xavier basketball, I have looked at Christmas break as the time when our team makes the most strides.

By then they have played roughly 1/3 of their games, and have a good idea of their strengths/weaknesses.

The break allows the team to focus solely on basketball and provides an opportunity for the players to bond.

I always look at the break as our best chance to gel. We have some big games between now and then. I still think we will find a way to get our shit together enough to win some of those big games and give ourselves a chance to make a run into the tournament.

Nice observations, NUTS.

Where we thought we had 3 key pieces returning, we know we now have 1 - Desmond Claude. We have every reason to expect that he'll be sensational at this point, so long as he stays healthy. But, yes, he's one guy.

What has me optimistic, in spite of that reality:

1. Sean Miller is the HC; and he's supported by a solid staff.

2. Desmond already is in "Colby Beast Mode".

3. I believe Swain and Greene are going to surprise us in a very nice and big way as the season progresses.

4. The C-USA transfers will prove their worth, just as Souleymane Boum proved his last year.

5. AND - START GETTING USED TO IT XAVIER FANS - the European invasion on Victory Parkway is going to make being a Xavier fan fun.

The chemistry already seems to be there and that is a big thing.

Some additional smoothing of the edges tomorrow night, a respectable showing in West Lafayette, and onward we'll go.

[xukeith]

If Fairleigh Dickinson can beat #1 Purdue, X can too.
They are also rated #1 in kenpom. A tad early I know.

[noteggs]

Are there a couple of decent players trying to get eligibility at sUCks?

Down to one. Heard Aziz had his appeal denied today. Well that sUCks ;)

[xudash]

Down to one. Heard Aziz had his appeal denied today. Well that sUCks ;)

That’s just terrible.

[XfansinKy]

I believe by mid January this team will be very good. Hopefully Ousmane and Ciani will be interchangeable, as will Zemeiksas and Swain. Claude and Olivari are gonna score a lot of points between them. I also believe by mid January Trey Green should be more consistent. Throw in the fact that we don’t know how good Lazar can be, and no reason to not be optimistic imo.

[xukeith]

I believe by mid January this team will be very good. Hopefully Ousmane and Ciani will be interchangeable, as will Zemeiksas and Swain. Claude and Olivari are gonna score a lot of points between them. I also believe by mid January Trey Green should be more consistent. Throw in the fact that we don’t know how good Lazar can be, and no reason to not be optimistic imo.

Agree.

Green, Claude, Olivari, Lazar, Gytis, Swain, Ousmane, and Ciani all make up a very talented rotation. ANother year in weight room, learning Miller's flow system, and just getting older will reap benefits. McKnight might improve too his speed and defense, X will be a lot better.

[American X]

How is the gelling coming? No classes, no games, no distractions, if Xavier is going to become a better version than what it has been, now is the time it has to be forming.

Is this team going to have any legitimate depth or will we soon see a very short rotation? The would-be role players need to stake their claim now or get nailed to the bench.

[paulxu]

Sometimes it seems like everyone is auditioning for the portal :sadwave:

[MHettel]

Wathcing a little bit of the SJU @ Nova game. SJU seems to be in command, with 10 minutes left.

Decided to take a look at their roster. They have 12 guys that seem to have some regular role. 14 players total.

2 returners, 2 freshman, 10 Transfers (from places like Harvard, Penn, Iona, VMI, Umass among others).

They are 10-4 and apparently didnt get the memo about how long it would take to gel...

[Xville]

Wathcing a little bit of the SJU @ Nova game. SJU seems to be in command, with 10 minutes left.

Decided to take a look at their roster. They have 12 guys that seem to have some regular role. 14 players total.

2 returners, 2 freshman, 10 Transfers (from places like Harvard, Penn, Iona, VMI, Umass among others).

They are 10-4 and apparently didnt get the memo about how long it would take to gel...

St. John’s doesnt have three international players and x doesn’t have 5 seniors, one of them being Soriano who is in his third year there and an absolute stud.

X would easily be 10-4 too if they had free.

[xukeith]

St. John’s doesnt have three international players and x doesn’t have 5 seniors, one of them being Soriano who is in his third year there and an absolute stud.

X would easily be 10-4 too if they had free.

Maybe. I don't remember X easily getting 10 victories with or without Freemantle.

Seems like the euro frosh need at least 2 more years of body development, gain a lot strength.

[nuts4xu]

They are 10-4 and apparently didnt get the memo about how long it would take to gel...

In you original post, you clearly expected this team to play well as soon as they stepped on the court. You wanted "a sense of urgency with no excuses".

You asked how long it would take this team to gel.

My guess is it will take longer than 2 months, but who knows.

Did you want someone to give you an exact answer? No one has a crystal ball.

The season is a lifetime.

[MHettel]

In you original post, you clearly expected this team to play well as soon as they stepped on the court. You wanted "a sense of urgency with no excuses".

You asked how long it would take this team to gel.

My guess is it will take longer than 2 months, but who knows.

Did you want someone to give you an exact answer? No one has a crystal ball.

The season is a lifetime.

Well, what I actually thought is that this idea of "gelling" is overrated.

If we were going to be good, then we'd be good early and stay good late.

And if we are going to be bad, we'd be bad early and stay bad late.

This idea of gelling almost requires that we start "bad" and end "good." I'm not convinced this team will be any better in March than it was in December.

I was HOPING we'd be Good/ Good, and now I'm thinking BEST case is that we are Bad / Good and gelling was in fact a real thing.

but if we are bad /bad, then I think it's fair to say that the idea of gelling might just be horseshit.

[Xville]

This team is far better now, than they were in November/December already so I think they will be even better in March.

Miller even pointed this out to Quincy in the latest podcast and q agreed. Some of it is playing together, some of it are people taking leadership roles and some of it is people understanding their roles. All of that has to do with a team gelling. How you can think “gelling” is horseshit is very odd to me.

[xavierj]

Well, what I actually thought is that this idea of "gelling" is overrated.

If we were going to be good, then we'd be good early and stay good late.

And if we are going to be bad, we'd be bad early and stay bad late.

This idea of gelling almost requires that we start "bad" and end "good." I'm not convinced this team will be any better in March than it was in December.

I was HOPING we'd be Good/ Good, and now I'm thinking BEST case is that we are Bad / Good and gelling was in fact a real thing.

but if we are bad /bad, then I think it's fair to say that the idea of gelling might just be horseshit.

They couldn’t even put some defensive principals into practice until the break because three players that play got to the states in August and September and also had to teach two other freshman that play as well. So 5 guys in the regular rotation are either freshman or just arrived in a new country. You saw some of the wrinkles they were able to add after the Seton Hall game against Nova. If you think teams can’t get better as the year goes on, I guess you didn’t watch the 2003-2004 Xavier team.

[xavierj]

Maybe. I don't remember X easily getting 10 victories with or without Freemantle.

Seems like the euro frosh need at least 2 more years of body development, gain a lot strength.

They did the last two years. Started out 15-3 with Zach last year and 14-3 the year before that. Crazy to start 14-3 and miss the tourney.

[MHettel]

This team is far better now, than they were in November/December already so I think they will be even better in March.

Miller even pointed this out to Quincy in the latest podcast and q agreed. Some of it is playing together, some of it are people taking leadership roles and some of it is people understanding their roles. All of that has to do with a team gelling. How you can think “gelling” is horseshit is very odd to me.

Well, the product that I'm seeing doesnt appear to be any better than the slop we rolled out against Oakland and Delaware. So, we can all talk about "playing together" or "leading more" or whatever and we can declare that we've improved in these areas but the reality is that our performacne is best measured by wins and losses. And I dont see a difference.

I still see the following: poor shooting even on open looks, ball doesnt move offensively, too much interior fouling, not getting to the line, sloppy TOs

[MHettel]

They couldn’t even put some defensive principals into practice until the break because three players that play got to the states in August and September and also had to teach two other freshman that play as well. So 5 guys in the regular rotation are either freshman or just arrived in a new country. You saw some of the wrinkles they were able to add after the Seton Hall game against Nova. If you think teams can’t get better as the year goes on, I guess you didn’t watch the 2003-2004 Xavier team.

if you are trying to make a point, but need to go back 20 seasons to provide an example, maybe the point is a little less meaningful than you nare letting on....

[xukeith]

if you are trying to make a point, but need to go back 20 seasons to provide an example, maybe the point is a little less meaningful than you nare letting on....

The defense is better than November. The quality of competition is also better.
I do believe this X squad has figured out best rotations and is close to "above average"
We have been very patient.

[Xville]

Well, the product that I'm seeing doesnt appear to be any better than the slop we rolled out against Oakland and Delaware. So, we can all talk about "playing together" or "leading more" or whatever and we can declare that we've improved in these areas but the reality is that our performacne is best measured by wins and losses. And I dont see a difference.

I still see the following: poor shooting even on open looks, ball doesnt move offensively, too much interior fouling, not getting to the line, sloppy TOs

If you choose to continue to ignore what miller and the players say I guess that’s your prerogative. Defense is miles ahead of what it was, they are limiting unforced tos, and the competition is better. If you think this team loses to Oakland and Delaware now, then I'm not quite sure what you are watching.

[xavierj]

if you are trying to make a point, but need to go back 20 seasons to provide an example, maybe the point is a little less meaningful than you nare letting on....

That was one example. Creighton last year lost 6 in a row, started 6 and 6 and went to the elite 8. This team that lost to Oakland and Delaware has since beat a pretty good Cincinnati team, beat Seton Hall by 20 who has won at Providence, beat UConn and beat Marquette and this team lost a game by 1 at Nova, which they should have won. To say they have not improved is confusing.

The defense now is much improved from where they were and they will get better just because they will get more comfortable playing together and the young guys will continue to figure it out. Also since Xavier lost to Delaware and Oakland Dayvion McKnight is shooting 53% from 3, 8 of 15. He was 2 of 13 prior to that. Trey Green is shooting 44% from 3 over his last 4 games after starting the year at 25% after 9 games. If Trey, Quincy and Dayvion continue to be a threat it will open everything else up and they will win games. Lastly Sean Miller is the coach and he knows what he is doing.

[nuts4xu]

Well, the product that I'm seeing doesnt appear to be any better than the slop we rolled out against Oakland and Delaware.

That is certainly one way to look at it. Just wins and losses. If that was your view all along, you set yourself up for disappointment.

It's a monumental ask for a team with one returning player to play their way into an at large bid. It just doesn't happen very often.

If you are truly interested in what this team is doing to get better, sign up for 247 Sports and watch the segments from Trey Scotti.

It takes time to get all these moving parts on the same page.

[GoMuskies]

Every time I see this thread come up it makes me want to go out and buy some Dr. Scholls. Or circumnavigate the globe.

[paulxu]

Maybe we'll "gel" tomorrow night ?

[bjf123]

Every time I see this thread come up it makes me want to go out and buy some Dr. Scholls. Or circumnavigate the globe.

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[XUBison]

If you choose to continue to ignore what miller and the players say I guess that’s your prerogative. Defense is miles ahead of what it was, they are limiting unforced tos, and the competition is better. If you think this team loses to Oakland and Delaware now, then I'm not quite sure what you are watching.

Wait, the competition is better? Thus far? St. John’s; Seton Hall; Villanova — that group is better than: current #1; current #2; Washington; St. Mary’s; UC? I’m not following.

FWIW, we are 1-2 and 2-3 against each respective group— a better winning percentage against the latter. And that team that lost to St. John’s, three short games ago, would have lost to Oakland and Delaware. Are the last two games a sign of improvement, or the same ebbs and flows we’ve seen all season? I’m sure we’re improving, as every team should throughout a season, but are we “gelling” into something dramatically better? I’m not so sure. Let’s hope a win against UConn turbocharges that cause.

[XUBison]

That was one example. Creighton last year lost 6 in a row, started 6 and 6 and went to the elite 8. This team that lost to Oakland and Delaware has since beat a pretty good Cincinnati team, beat Seton Hall by 20 who has won at Providence, beat UConn and beat Marquette and this team lost a game by 1 at Nova, which they should have won. To say they have not improved is confusing.

The defense now is much improved from where they were and they will get better just because they will get more comfortable playing together and the young guys will continue to figure it out. Also since Xavier lost to Delaware and Oakland Dayvion McKnight is shooting 53% from 3, 8 of 15. He was 2 of 13 prior to that. Trey Green is shooting 44% from 3 over his last 4 games after starting the year at 25% after 9 games. If Trey, Quincy and Dayvion continue to be a threat it will open everything else up and they will win games. Lastly Sean Miller is the coach and he knows what he is doing.

I get your point, but our ‘03-‘04 team and last year’s Creighton team both came in with high expectations and underachieved out of the gate. I’m not sure those comparisons fit with this year’s team, which came in as a total unknown. I think it’s a fair question— is what we’ve seen what we get? Hopefully the (very recent) trends you described stay on a positive track.

[XUGRAD80]

There is also the possibility that this team never “gels” this year. That it continues to improve, but really never comes together into a finished product. I trust a Miller, and when he says that this will be a good team before the end of the season, I believe him. But it may actually be a year or longer before this group of players actually becomes a great team. Or it may be never. There are some holes that need to be filled and I’m not totally convinced that X has ALL the players it needs yet.

[Xville]

Wait, the competition is better? Thus far? St. John’s; Seton Hall; Villanova — that group is better than: current #1; current #2; Washington; St. Mary’s; UC? I’m not following.

FWIW, we are 1-2 and 2-3 against each respective group— a better winning percentage against the latter. And that team that lost to St. John’s, three short games ago, would have lost to Oakland and Delaware. Are the last two games a sign of improvement, or the same ebbs and flows we’ve seen all season? I’m sure we’re improving, as every team should throughout a season, but are we “gelling” into something dramatically better? I’m not so sure. Let’s hope a win against UConn turbocharges that cause.

Allow me to clarify. When I say the competition is better, I mean overall on a night to night, week to week basis. In other words, there are no more buy games (except Depaul i guess lol). I'd also argue that yes all the teams in our conference are better than Washington, UC and St. Mary's (except for Depaul and maybe Georgetown).

I believe from the UC game on, the team has shown incremental improvement in my eyes and in Miller's. Are they "gelled" yet, no. And, as XUgrad80 pointed out, they may never. Personally, I think they will, and I believe this team can win 13 conference games, but it starts tonight. Are they the most talented team, no. Do they have some deficiences, for sure. However, if they begin rebounding as they need to in this conference, then they can hit their ceiling and gel imo.

[bjf123]

I’ll be very surprised if we win 13 BE games this year. It would get great to see, but I’m thinking 10 or 11 tops.


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[Xville]

I’ll be very surprised if we win 13 BE games this year. It would get great to see, but I’m thinking 10 or 11 tops.


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Here is how I see it happening:

1-1 this week.
Butler
Gtown
St. John's
@Depaul
Nova
Creighton
@Seton Hall
Providence
Depaul
@Gtown
Marquette

Will it happen? I don't know, but I don't think that what I listed above is out of the realm of possibility. I think it's this team's ceiling, but I think it can happen and its what i have said all along so im sticking to it :)

[XUGRAD80]

I think that this is a team that could win any of the games this year, but it’s also a team that could lose any of the games this year.

I said prior to the season that I thought they would finish 12-8 in the conference and I’m going to stick with that. But I ain’t bettin’ the farm on it! :)

[bleedXblue]

Here is how I see it happening:

1-1 this week.
Butler
Gtown
St. John's
@Depaul
Nova
Creighton
@Seton Hall
Providence
Depaul
@Gtown
Marquette

Will it happen? I don't know, but I don't think that what I listed above is out of the realm of possibility. I think it's this team's ceiling, but I think it can happen and its what i have said all along so im sticking to it :)

yeah, i like the optimism but it certainly isn't realistic with this group and what we've seen

hoping for the best and preparing for 8-9 wins

[GoMuskies]

Just starting off with the 1-1 this week is pretty damned optimistic.

[XUBison]

There is also the possibility that this team never “gels” this year. That it continues to improve, but really never comes together into a finished product. I trust a Miller, and when he says that this will be a good team before the end of the season, I believe him. But it may actually be a year or longer before this group of players actually becomes a great team. Or it may be never. There are some holes that need to be filled and I’m not totally convinced that X has ALL the players it needs yet.

I’ll be the devil’s advocate on two fronts: first, how much can building for the future be relied upon in the current climate? Sean had to work with what he had this year, fine, but I’m not sure building for the long game is a real strategy anymore.

Second, no one did more messageboard meditation to will Sean back to X than I. I have implicit trust in him, so much so that I don’t care the team sucks; I’m thrilled he’s our coach. But of course he’s going to present with optimism. What else is he supposed to say— that this shit-show is a raging dumpster fire with no hope of being extinguished?

[Xville]

I’ll be the devil’s advocate on two fronts: first, how much can building for the future be relied upon in the current climate? Sean had to work with what he had this year, fine, but I’m not sure building for the long game is a real strategy anymore.

Second, no one did more messageboard meditation to will Sean back to X than I. I have implicit trust in him, so much so that I don’t care the team sucks; I’m thrilled he’s our coach. But of course he’s going to present with optimism. What else is he supposed to say— that this shit-show is a raging dumpster fire with no hope of being extinguished?

Your first question is a very interesting one, and not one I, nor anyone, has the answer to right now. I'd like to think that programs such as X can hold onto the talent that they want to stay, but we shall see. I get excited in the short term for next year though.

[XUGRAD80]

I’ll be the devil’s advocate on two fronts: first, how much can building for the future be relied upon in the current climate? Sean had to work with what he had this year, fine, but I’m not sure building for the long game is a real strategy anymore.

Second, no one did more messageboard meditation to will Sean back to X than I. I have implicit trust in him, so much so that I don’t care the team sucks; I’m thrilled he’s our coach. But of course he’s going to present with optimism. What else is he supposed to say— that this shit-show is a raging dumpster fire with no hope of being extinguished?

Of course nobody can know for sure what the future holds. Who will go, who will stay, and who may come in. But unlike what I am seeing in college football, there doesn’t seem to be as much movement by starters in college basketball. The starters that we do see moving seem to be ones moving from a lower level to upper level team, or leaving after a coaching change. I think that as long as Miller remains that X won’t have many starters leaving via transfer. If they are able to keep the starting players that won’t graduate, and add back in Free and Hunter along with any transfer they might bring in, I am excited for next year. I think that is a very realistic scenario, even in today’s transfer portal atmosphere.

[xavierj]

Your first question is a very interesting one, and not one I, nor anyone, has the answer to right now. I'd like to think that programs such as X can hold onto the talent that they want to stay, but we shall see. I get excited in the short term for next year though.

Xavier has not lost a player to a better program in the NIL era, and two of those years were with Steele. Xavier will take care of their own and the guys Sean wants here will be here.

[MHettel]

Garbage. This team is not any better now than it was 90 days ago.

If anything, we rely more on the guys that were good early.

No development whatsoever. Team and individual.

Like I called it. An excuse for being bad early is that somehow we’d be good late.

Terrible

[GoMuskies]

Longer

[Xville]

Garbage. This team is not any better now than it was 90 days ago.

If anything, we rely more on the guys that were good early.

No development whatsoever. Team and individual.

Like I called it. An excuse for being bad early is that somehow we’d be good late.

Terrible

Team overall I can agree. Individual there has been a lot of development from q, dayvion, swain. However the frontcourt is so bad that their development couldn’t overcome that non development of the frontcourt

[Xavier]

McKnight definitely has gotten better. I’m not sure how you could watch early and lately and not see that. I think Osman got worse. He was an ok threat with back to basket to start the year. It will be an interesting offseason for sure

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Never is the answer to the OPs question. I see talent there to be kept and hopefully they stay. This is a different with more front court depth.

[American X]

March............................................. ...................................2025.

[nuts4xu]

Garbage. This team is not any better now than it was 90 days ago.

If anything, we rely more on the guys that were good early.

No development whatsoever. Team and individual.

Like I called it. An excuse for being bad early is that somehow we’d be good late.

Terrible

Congratulations on being right.

MUSKIE has ordered your "I WAS RIGHT" trophy, it should be delivered by UPS in 7-10 business days.

Congrats again!

[XUMIOH12]

They did gel, they just aren't very good.

[XUBison]

There has been development this season. Hell, some here were ready to dump Quincy after our first handful of games. The problem with the “gel” argument is, and always was, that every other team gets better throughout the season too.

[D-West & PO-Z]

congratulations on being right.

Muskie has ordered your "i was right" trophy, it should be delivered by ups in 7-10 business days.

Congrats again!

lmao

[Xavier]

I’m sure Sean believed it but it’s also a simple coaching technique. Speak it into existence, players buy in etc.


But we will have a roster overhaul again next year, and that will be welcomed.

[Xville]

There has been development this season. Hell, some here were ready to dump Quincy after our first handful of games. The problem with the “gel” argument is, and always was, that every other team gets better throughout the season too.

Steele's teams would like a chat :) .

Yes a lot of teams get better throughout the year but to varying levels due to a lot of factors. Take last year for instance, I'm not sure how much better they really got. Most of the players were at their ceilings already, and again most had played together for at least a few years. Boum probably got better, and Hunter got better as his role got a bit more defined but overall the team at the beginning was about what it was at the end.

Juxtapose that with this year when there are ten new players, international players, freshman etc etc, where the ceiling presumably is much higher. As you stated Q got better, and Dayvion, Swain got better. However, our frontcourt just never got better and our freshmen look like they have hit the wall. Had the frontcourt improved like I believe we (including Miller) thought they would, then we would be looking at a top 5 BE standing. Instead, it's more likely we end up 8th or 9th.

[xuwillie]

I think our biggest issue is we only have 2 shooters (one barely plays)... it's really hard to beat good teams when your 1 and 3 position aren't a threat at all from 3. I don't see that changing next year unless Claude decides to move on, so as bad as our frontcourt was/is I don't see how me make the jump necessary to be top 2 or 3 in the big east if both these guys continue to get the bulk of the minutes

[XUGRAD80]

The lack of improvement by the front court players has been a big disappointment. The lack of consistency by the team on the defensive side of the ball has also been disappointing. IMO a big reason for that inconsistency has been the lack of improvement by the bigs. X has blocked a lot of shots, but has also given up far too many easy baskets at the rim. Inconsistency. Players have been a half second late getting into position and that has led to blocking fouls and not charges. The freshman, especially the Euros, have not adjusted to the physicality and speed of the BE like we thought (and hoped) that they would. They have also failed to get into position to grab defensive rebounds on a regular basis. X has given up tons of offensive rebounds, which has really hurt their defensive efficiency.

Will Free and Hunter returning improve those things? We can certainly hope so, but as both are now coming off of serious leg injuries and both will have missed a complete season, I think that it is very risky to assume that will be the case. X will certainly IMO have to look to getting at least one transfer big that can play at the BE level through the transfer portal, and hope that those two and Nzeh can contribute next year.

It really sucks that with 2 weeks left in the regular season the best thing we have to look forward to is next year. :thumbsdown:

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

It really sucks that with 2 weeks left in the regular season the best thing we have to look forward to is next year. :thumbsdown:

Not what any of us expected six months ago. A lot of us, including me, are proponents of adding Bigs via the transfer portal but finding really solid additions, especially at the "5", is very difficult. I thought Miller had accomplished a great deal last year when he signed Abou, considered to be one of the more capable bigs in the portal, and recruited Gytis, the MVP in Lithuania's equivalent of the Final Four and got Lazar, one of the best junior players in Slovenia. Seemed like a coup at the time. And no doubt, took a lot of hard work from the coaching staff to accomplish.

As it turns out none of them had the level of experience or skill necessary to help us win the Big East. Maybe they develop (those who stick around) or maybe they don't. Hard to predict but its difficult for me to imagine any of them improving by leaps and bounds. I should acknowledge that Abou was better, coming off the bench vs. Providence, than he had played in the previous games. But his skills and his decision making continue to be under par (IMO).

Glad we have Miller to head up the program. But success next year is not assured. Lots and lots of work to do and even more challenging coming off such a disappointing year.

[Xavier]

I think our biggest issue is we only have 2 shooters (one barely plays)... it's really hard to beat good teams when your 1 and 3 position aren't a threat at all from 3. I don't see that changing next year unless Claude decides to move on, so as bad as our frontcourt was/is I don't see how me make the jump necessary to be top 2 or 3 in the big east if both these guys continue to get the bulk of the minutes

Is the narrative that McKnight isn’t a threat at all From 3? He’s shooting 38.5% from 3. He has been a pleasant surprise from beyond the arc. Frankly, all together- McKnight has been a very good player. I’m really looking forward to seeing him next year.

[Xville]

There is enough 3 pt shooting on this team. They are about as average as they come...averaging 34.5% which is good for 140 in the country out of 350+ some odd teams. That's not the issue. The issue is we have very little coming from the 5 spot and virtually nothing from the 4 offensively or defensively.

Either Free and/or Hunter come back fully healthy next year and/or Miller finds a legit 4/5. Otherwise, X will look the same next year.

Honestly, the offense isn't that bad. Its inconsistent for sure, but the defense has been a complete abomination the last few weeks.

[JTG]

There is enough 3 pt shooting on this team. They are about as average as they come...averaging 34.5% which is good for 140 in the country out of 350+ some odd teams. That's not the issue. The issue is we have very little coming from the 5 spot and virtually nothing from the 4 offensively or defensively.

Either Free and/or Hunter come back fully healthy next year and/or Miller finds a legit 4/5. Otherwise, X will look the same next year.

Honestly, the offense isn't that bad. Its inconsistent for sure, but the defense has been a complete abomination the last few weeks.

I don't think being 140th is going to cut it in the Big East, with Marq, Creighton, and UConn. Even Butler hits 3s at a decent clip. We're trading 2s for 3s and putting up shots at 16 secs. Actually if a team plays slowdown against us at least we aren't continually winded. I buy the point someone made that while I understand the reasoning, our fast pace with no bench to speak of, has us worn down to the point, they have ALL hit a wall. Too bad we never got to see Craft and Ducharme, there supposed shooting ability would have been extremely welcome this season.

[Xavier]

X was in the 200’s last year and finished 2nd in the Big East.

*200s in attempts, disregard. Not sure where they finished in percentage

[Xville]

I don't think being 140th is going to cut it in the Big East, with Marq, Creighton, and UConn. Even Butler hits 3s at a decent clip. We're trading 2s for 3s and putting up shots at 16 secs. Actually if a team plays slowdown against us at least we aren't continually winded. I buy the point someone made that while I understand the reasoning, our fast pace with no bench to speak of, has us worn down to the point, they have ALL hit a wall. Too bad we never got to see Craft and Ducharme, there supposed shooting ability would have been extremely welcome this season.

Say the shooting isn’t better but x has a legit 4/5, What do you think their record would be? Hall seems to be doing fine shooting even worse than x.

[xuwillie]

153 in the country probably doesn’t get X to where miller wants to be. With Claude taking up all the small forward minutes and Q not being the easiest to replace I find it very hard to believe X will improve on that number next year. Help from the center position will def help but how much? Make us a top 30 team maybe.

Per ESPN. X ranked 5th last year in 3pt shooting and 153 this year. I feel like it’s a big issue with the current roster setup

[xukeith]

Do we fans expect Miller to play flow offense and speed out in transition a lot more next year?
Opposing defenses have learned if they can slow X in transition, X struggles in the half court offense.

[MHettel]

There is enough 3 pt shooting on this team. They are about as average as they come...averaging 34.5% which is good for 140 in the country out of 350+ some odd teams. That's not the issue. The issue is we have very little coming from the 5 spot and virtually nothing from the 4 offensively or defensively.

Either Free and/or Hunter come back fully healthy next year and/or Miller finds a legit 4/5. Otherwise, X will look the same next year.

Honestly, the offense isn't that bad. Its inconsistent for sure, but the defense has been a complete abomination the last few weeks.

No, the offense is BAD. I think we look at the point totals and assume the offense works. But we score alot of buckets in transition which is much different than scoring in the halfcourt. The transition offense is actually good. Many teams dont even try to score in transition, and some that do try suck at it.

But you gotta wonder why a coach would put so much emphasis on transition offense....perhaps he's aware of how inept the half-court offense is?

Does anyone knof if there are stats on this? I'd love to just isolate our halfcourt O and do some comparisons to past years.

Anyway, Shooting is a MASSIVE problem. We really have 3 guys total that are capable deep shooters. Qunicy and Green are shot hunters and command attention on the perimeter. McKnight is a solid deep shooter, but doesnt look for his shot and shoots infrequently (2.5 Attemps in 34 minutes vs Kunkel last year that took 4.6 attempts in 30 minutes). So we have 3 guys that can shoot from deep and they basically play overlapping positions so you would never have them all on the court together. In terms of Attempts, Claude is actually 3rd on the team.

Q is taking 7 3s a game. Boum last year averaged 5.2 in 4 more minutes per game. Nate Johnson averaged 5.8 as a senior. Naji averaged 5.2 one year.
Our 3pt attemps rank us 270th in the country, vs last year where we were 185th. Trevon averaged 7.2 per game but on a per minute basis still shot less than Q, and that team was ranked 209th in attempts, which means other guys were shootting more often than teh other guys on this team. McKnight has taken 27 less 3 attempts than Claude...but has made 5 more. I like both of these guys, but the guy shooting 39% just HAS to be taking more attempts than the guy shooting 22%.

Quincy has taken 34.7% of our 3s, and he's made 44.5% of our 3's. Again, compare that to Trevon, who took 34.2% of teh attempts and made 38.6% of the makes. The difference in the makes is due to the fact that the guys around Trevon could also shoot a little bit.... (34.9%).

Removing Q from the totals, and the rest of this team shoots 29.3% from 3.

So, it's really easy to gameplan against us, with an almost singular focus of keeping Q from getting clean looks. He's had to work very hard this year to put up the shots he's taken.

the other massive issue offensively with this team is the lack of passing out of the post. From an Assists per game perspective, we are still ranked 28th in the country, but that deserves a closer look. Claude and McKnight are the only 2 guys that average more than 2 per game, and they total exactly 50% of the assists.

Passing was a hallmark of last years team being #1 in the country. Every starter last year averaged 2 or more assists, and the top 2 guys accounted for 44.8%.

Nunge (77) Free (64 in 22 games) & Hunter (47) had very respectable assist totals compared to this year's frontcourt of Abou (32), Gytis (26), Ciani (25), and Lazar (13). There are still more games to play this year so those total will increase but nonetheless, the point is made.

[Xville]

No, the offense is BAD. I think we look at the point totals and assume the offense works. But we score alot of buckets in transition which is much different than scoring in the halfcourt. The transition offense is actually good. Many teams dont even try to score in transition, and some that do try suck at it.

But you gotta wonder why a coach would put so much emphasis on transition offense....perhaps he's aware of how inept the half-court offense is?

Does anyone knof if there are stats on this? I'd love to just isolate our halfcourt O and do some comparisons to past years.

Anyway, Shooting is a MASSIVE problem. We really have 3 guys total that are capable deep shooters. Qunicy and Green are shot hunters and command attention on the perimeter. McKnight is a solid deep shooter, but doesnt look for his shot and shoots infrequently (2.5 Attemps in 34 minutes vs Kunkel last year that took 4.6 attempts in 30 minutes). So we have 3 guys that can shoot from deep and they basically play overlapping positions so you would never have them all on the court together. In terms of Attempts, Claude is actually 3rd on the team.

Q is taking 7 3s a game. Boum last year averaged 5.2 in 4 more minutes per game. Nate Johnson averaged 5.8 as a senior. Naji averaged 5.2 one year.
Our 3pt attemps rank us 270th in the country, vs last year where we were 185th. Trevon averaged 7.2 per game but on a per minute basis still shot less than Q, and that team was ranked 209th in attempts, which means other guys were shootting more often than teh other guys on this team. McKnight has taken 27 less 3 attempts than Claude...but has made 5 more. I like both of these guys, but the guy shooting 39% just HAS to be taking more attempts than the guy shooting 22%.

Quincy has taken 34.7% of our 3s, and he's made 44.5% of our 3's. Again, compare that to Trevon, who took 34.2% of teh attempts and made 38.6% of the makes. The difference in the makes is due to the fact that the guys around Trevon could also shoot a little bit.... (34.9%).

Removing Q from the totals, and the rest of this team shoots 29.3% from 3.

So, it's really easy to gameplan against us, with an almost singular focus of keeping Q from getting clean looks. He's had to work very hard this year to put up the shots he's taken.

the other massive issue offensively with this team is the lack of passing out of the post. From an Assists per game perspective, we are still ranked 28th in the country, but that deserves a closer look. Claude and McKnight are the only 2 guys that average more than 2 per game, and they total exactly 50% of the assists.

Passing was a hallmark of last years team being #1 in the country. Every starter last year averaged 2 or more assists, and the top 2 guys accounted for 44.8%.

Nunge (77) Free (64 in 22 games) & Hunter (47) had very respectable assist totals compared to this year's frontcourt of Abou (32), Gytis (26), Ciani (25), and Lazar (13). There are still more games to play this year so those total will increase but nonetheless, the point is made.

He has stated why. It's because generally more possessions, means more points which equal more wins. They focused quickly in transition last year as well. I agree that the offense isn't a well-oiled machine when it comes to the half court, but that's not really because of 3pt shooting which is what others are asserting, it's because there is zero frontcourt help....no pick and roll, no pick and pop, because our 4 and 5 are mostly inept. And I agree that some of that is passing as well...I don't think Abou has ever passed out of the post, once.

I still contend that a huge issue is the D

Take a look at the defense the last few weeks:

79--Providence
78---Creighton
88----Seton Hall
99---UCONN
85---Creighton
91---Gtown
77---St. Johns

Outside of Nova (the slowest team on earth) and Depaul who is a JV Squad, the d has been wretched. I'll let UCONN and Creighton slide a bit since they are elite offensively but Providence, Gtown, Hall, St Johns are either average to below average and they mostly carved us up. Maybe it's because the guys are tired as Miller has stated and others have said here. Regardless, I think it's been a problem...which again a lot of that is because frontcourt seems to get dunked on ten times a game. Heck, even in the non-conference X made the Townsend kid on Oakland look like an NBA loterry pick, and gave up 87 to freaking Delaware.

[XUGRAD80]

Passing/assists is a problem because they don’t have one single player that they can throw it to down low and be expected to score consistently. They are stuck playing a weave out at the top of the key and hoping that someone either gets an open 3, an open drive to the hoop, or Dez gets a drive down the right hand side for a short pull-up jumper. There is no inside game in the half court. In addition, the lack of good defensive rebounding by the bigs means less chances of getting runouts and fast breaks. The guards are having to crash the boards and aren’t able to get out quickly for outlet passes that ignite the fast break. Nor are they in good position to get long rebounds or to guard the opposing guards after the opponent gets an offensive rebound. A couple of good strong rebounding forwards would correct a lot of the ills this team has.

I agree with Ville that defense is the biggest problem this team has….and how much of that can be traced to giving up to many offensive rebounds?

[drudy23]

The last few weeks the defense has been swiss cheese. But the biggest problem is still the front court.

[Xavier]

Do we fans expect Miller to play flow offense and speed out in transition a lot more next year?
Opposing defenses have learned if they can slow X in transition, X struggles in the half court offense.

I expect him to run the same offense he has these past two years. One year it was one of best in country. This year, not so much. For some reason people point to outside shooting as the issue, when it’s as simple as the frontfourt isn’t good enough to run the offense. It kills the half court offense, but the pace and style is same as last year.

The bigs just can’t do anything to make half court offense flow. Frustrating because backcourt would look even better if the bigs were just halfway decent at it.

[Xavier]

. Heck, even in the non-conference X made the Townsend kid on Oakland look like an NBA loterry pick, and gave up 87 to freaking Delaware.

How’s that kid doing? Thought when watching we should target him in portal. But more likely X made him look much better than he is

[Xville]

How’s that kid doing? Thought when watching we should target him in portal. But more likely X made him look much better than he is

He's a solid player averaging 16-17 in the Horizon. However, X made him look ridiculous.

He's a big body though which even though he's undersized height wise, may still do fine in the BE. Might be worth a look.

[MHettel]

He has stated why. It's because generally more possessions, means more points which equal more wins. They focused quickly in transition last year as well. I agree that the offense isn't a well-oiled machine when it comes to the half court, but that's not really because of 3pt shooting which is what others are asserting, it's because there is zero frontcourt help....no pick and roll, no pick and pop, because our 4 and 5 are mostly inept. And I agree that some of that is passing as well...I don't think Abou has ever passed out of the post, once.

I still contend that a huge issue is the D

Take a look at the defense the last few weeks:

79--Providence
78---Creighton
88----Seton Hall
99---UCONN
85---Creighton
91---Gtown
77---St. Johns

Outside of Nova (the slowest team on earth) and Depaul who is a JV Squad, the d has been wretched. I'll let UCONN and Creighton slide a bit since they are elite offensively but Providence, Gtown, Hall, St Johns are either average to below average and they mostly carved us up. Maybe it's because the guys are tired as Miller has stated and others have said here. Regardless, I think it's been a problem...which again a lot of that is because frontcourt seems to get dunked on ten times a game. Heck, even in the non-conference X made the Townsend kid on Oakland look like an NBA loterry pick, and gave up 87 to freaking Delaware.

I'm not defending the defense. But we are the ones pushing the tempo, and like you said that means more possessions and more points. I dont necessarily agree with Millers take that more points means more wins as a reason to play up-tempo. The opponents get more possessions too, right? I actually prefer our style and tempo and have long spoken about even using some press to speed it up a little more, but that requires depth....

Anyway, I'd measure our defense using various other stats. Points per possession. Foul rate (fouls divided by possessions). opponents 3pt shooting %. Opponents Offensive rebounding percent. I'd really love to see the number of attemps that occuin the last 5 seconds of the shot clock.

Steals and Blocks seem important to defense, but only becasue it's one stat that you can "count." I remember the year with Hankins and he was VERY active on help defense coming over to attempt a block on just about anything going to the rim. he got a few blocks, but he also left his man in perfect offensive rebounding position WAAAY to often. Some people would measure defense by counting those blocks. Great defense is when you can play man, without help, force a tough shot and the rest of the guys are boxing out.

A couple more thoughts. about defense....

How in the world can someone watch this team, take the position that the defense is the biggest problem, and then suggest we'd be better with Freemantle? I actually DO think we'd be better with Free, but only because the glaring frontcourt offensive need would be addressed in a more significant way than the defense would be worsened.

As far as teh 4/5 defense, I actually think Abou is decent. hes stong, quick, aggressive, and has a bit of a nasty streak. He needs to figure out the fouling, but otherwise he's fine. He would have paired well with Free becasue he doesnt require any offense and can rim protect / help when Free gets isolated.

Gytis sucks defensively. Thats my entire analysis on him.

Ciani looks like he should be considerably stronger than he is. He's not 18. I think he's 20. I'm skeptical when i hear people say that he can put on size / add strength... AND, Ciani plays below the rim. Either Box out like Jason Love / James Farr, or play above the rim like Tyrique. Doing neither results in ineffective interior rebounding.

What I really find entertaining, however, is the debate about which of the 3 fatal flaws of this team is the WORST fatal flaw. Its like being in a plane crash and surviving in the wilderness and being attacked by a bear and struck by lighning. This is not a story you live to tell.

[XUBison]

It’s settled then… We are not very good.

One thought— if Sean believed shooting were the linchpin to this roster’s success, it would seem that Green would see more time, and Ducharme would not be persona non grata.

[xuwillie]

It’s settled then… We are not very good.

One thought— if Sean believed shooting were the linchpin to this roster’s success, it would seem that Green would see more time, and Ducharme would not be persona non grata.

And craft would be given a chance. Or they are too much a defensive liability that it just not worth it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Is the narrative that McKnight isn’t a threat at all From 3? He’s shooting 38.5% from 3. He has been a pleasant surprise from beyond the arc. Frankly, all together- McKnight has been a very good player. I’m really looking forward to seeing him next year.

McKnight has been way better than I expected. So glad he has another year.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don't think being 140th is going to cut it in the Big East, with Marq, Creighton, and UConn. Even Butler hits 3s at a decent clip. We're trading 2s for 3s and putting up shots at 16 secs. Actually if a team plays slowdown against us at least we aren't continually winded. I buy the point someone made that while I understand the reasoning, our fast pace with no bench to speak of, has us worn down to the point, they have ALL hit a wall. Too bad we never got to see Craft and Ducharme, there supposed shooting ability would have been extremely welcome this season.

I am not sure it would have meant any playing time otherwise but Ducharme has been dealing with an injury for many weeks. I know some thought he had left the team maybe, that is not the case.

[D-West & PO-Z]

No, the offense is BAD. I think we look at the point totals and assume the offense works. But we score alot of buckets in transition which is much different than scoring in the halfcourt. The transition offense is actually good. Many teams dont even try to score in transition, and some that do try suck at it.

But you gotta wonder why a coach would put so much emphasis on transition offense....perhaps he's aware of how inept the half-court offense is?

I feel like this is fairly obvious. When you have no offensive threat to throw to in the post, your halfcourt offense is going to struggle mightily.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Ciani looks like he should be considerably stronger than he is. He's not 18. I think he's 20. I'm skeptical when i hear people say that he can put on size / add strength... AND, Ciani plays below the rim. Either Box out like Jason Love / James Farr, or play above the rim like Tyrique. Doing neither results in ineffective interior rebounding.



Neither Jason Love nor James Farr rebounded Jason Love or James Farr their 1st years. People remember what guys did in their last year and compare that to guys in their 1st. Makes no sense. It is true he is 20 but that doesn't equate to experience.

Ciani is also playing his 1st year in a much tougher league. (Love A10 all 4 years, Farr A10 1st year then BE).

[JTG]

Neither Jason Love nor James Farr rebounded Jason Love or James Farr their 1st years. People remember what guys did in their last year and compare that to guys in their 1st. Makes no sense. It is true he is 20 but that doesn't equate to experience.

Ciani is also playing his 1st year in a much tougher league. (Love A10 all 4 years, Farr A10 1st year then BE).

I think these bigs need a tutor like Grant or West. Not suggesting ether would be interested, but our guys act like they have no clue what to do. Someone like Louie Orr who turned Hill, Strong, and Williams into NBA players. If nothing else those 3 were fearless, the current guys , except Abou, play a very timid brand of basketball.

[bleedXblue]

I am not sure it would have meant any playing time otherwise but Ducharme has been dealing with an injury for many weeks. I know some thought he had left the team maybe, that is not the case.

Ive not seen him on the bench for the last several games? Is he still enrolled and has anyone else seen him at a game?

[bleedXblue]

I think these bigs need a tutor like Grant or West. Not suggesting ether would be interested, but our guys act like they have no clue what to do. Someone like Louie Orr who turned Hill, Strong, and Williams into NBA players. If nothing else those 3 were fearless, the current guys , except Abou, play a very timid brand of basketball.

Ding, ding, ding. I think Sean is seeing that none of the big men have improved this year. Thats really hard to do. I hope we see some coaching staff changes.

[MHettel]

Neither Jason Love nor James Farr rebounded Jason Love or James Farr their 1st years. People remember what guys did in their last year and compare that to guys in their 1st. Makes no sense. It is true he is 20 but that doesn't equate to experience.

Ciani is also playing his 1st year in a much tougher league. (Love A10 all 4 years, Farr A10 1st year then BE).

Are you sure? Love didnt play much as a Freshman, only 76 minutes. but he had 21 rebs, which is good for .276 rebs per minute. In his career, he ended at .297 rebs per minute. So, yes, in his later years he was more productive as a rebounder. but considering only 3% of his total minutes came in his Freshman year, there becomes and issue with "sample size"

James Farr also didnt play much....42 minutes total as a Freshman. he averaged .333 rebounds per minute. Much higher than what Jason Love averaged in his career. Farrs Career average was .351....

For the sake of establishing additional reference points, lets look at Tyrique, O'Mara, Reynolds, and Frease.

Tyrique- Played alot....407 minutes. .280 as a freshman. .332 career.

O'Mara- 106 minutes as a freshman. .160 as a fresh. .223 career.

Jalen- 401 minutes as a freshman. .297 as a fresh. .310 career.

Frease- 496 minutes as a freshman. .254 as a fresh. .253 career.

So quite a range of performance among this group. The degree of improvement between freshman year vs career ranges from "not really any improvement" to a 40% improvement for O'Mara. But also, O'Mara had by far the lowest rate as a Freshman, and in his career rank as well.

So lets look at Ciani- in 386 minutes, hes got 86 rebounds or .222 per minute. Will he improve from here? Hopefully , probably. But what can he become? he's basically at O'Maras career level right now. if we back out O'Mara freshman year from his career totals, then we can isolate his soph through senior years at .229. Ok, well thats better, but still not too good.

One thing that makes apple-to-apples difficult in this analysis is the pace of play (and rebound opportunities) may be different for each of these guys. So maybe BY comparing each player to the rest of the team would be insightful. In other words, if a guy plays 5% of the total minutes but grabs 8% of the total rebounds, compared to a guy that was at 6% & 7%. Calc those 2 numbers and then take a ratio. HIGHER IS BETTER

OMara- 94.1
Ciani- 117.6
Frease- 129.5
Tyrique- 150.8
Love- 164.6
Reynolds 167.6
Farr 210.7

I just laid out 2 ways that one COULD evaluate Sasa rebounding performance as a Freshman. The goal was to benchmark him against other players we've seen an are familiar with, AND get a sense for how much better players get as they gain experience. Under these 2 approaches, it certainly seems like Ciani appears to be on more of a path somewhere between O'Mara and Frease than Farr / Tyrique / Love.

i dont believe this is perfect, but there is some utility here...

[D-West & PO-Z]

Ive not seen him on the bench for the last several games? Is he still enrolled and has anyone else seen him at a game?

Yes he id very much on the team.

[Xville]

Paul has his new episode up and it is with Doellman. Really fun interesting episode and one of my favorites. Anyways, Doellman talked about how the team gelled at just the right time. I had to laugh.