Colorado to the Big 12

[xudash]

https://www.si.com/college/westvirginia/football/colorado-set-to-rejoin-big-12-conference

[X-band '01]

ESPN also reporting that Colorado won't have any exit fee from the Pac-12 because that conference's media deal expires at the end of the 2023-24 athletic year. Good luck with that league after this upcoming season.

[xuphan]

ESPN also reporting that Colorado won't have any exit fee from the Pac-12 because that conference's media deal expires at the end of the 2023-24 athletic year. Good luck with that league after this upcoming season.

Waiting for the Xavier to the Big 12 rumors to start. Especially with the progression of the football team.

[XUGRAD80]

Waiting for the Xavier to the Big 12 rumors to start. Especially with the progression of the football team.


It won’t be X, but it WILL be UConn……if the B12 Commish has his way.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Read from a reporter on twitter that the Big 12 wants to add 1 or 3 more teams in addition to Colorado for 2024 to get to an even number and their preference is to add from the PAC first and only going to outside that if can't get from PAC.

[XUGRAD80]

Rad an article where the commish really wants UConn. Because of it opening up the NYC market, including using MSQ. The recent B12 event at Junker Park would seem to give that some credibility. BUT….I’ve also read, like D-West said above……that the schools really want some more PAC schools. Looks like it will be up to the commish to convince the current members his way is better.

It ain’t over till it’s over.

[Xville]

A lot of talk this morning of Florida state possibly moving. Yea there is the gor but the big ten is rumored to want fsu and fsu just figured they can pay the litigation fees with all the extra money they will be receiving.

Interesting.

I’m guessing Arizona is the next domino to call though

[xavierj]

Rad an article where the commish really wants UConn. Because of it opening up the NYC market, including using MSQ. The recent B12 event at Junker Park would seem to give that some credibility. BUT….I’ve also read, like D-West said above……that the schools really want some more PAC schools. Looks like it will be up to the commish to convince the current members his way is better.

It ain’t over till it’s over.

The commish used UConn to pull pac 12 teams. UConn is not going to the Big 12 for a number of reasons but the two main ones are, the Big 12 presidents do not want them and UConn would have to part with $30 million. Wash, Oregon, Arizona and Arizona state will join the Big 12. But if UConn did, the closest university would be UC, which is 800 miles away. Boulder is 2,000 and Tempe is 2,500. The travel and expense for these universities in these mega conferences is going to be ridiculous.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The commish used UConn to pull pac 12 teams. UConn is not going to the Big 12 for a number of reasons but the two main ones are, the Big 12 presidents do not want them and UConn would have to part with $30 million. Wash, Oregon, Arizona and Arizona state will join the Big 12. But if UConn did, the closest university would be UC, which is 800 miles away. Boulder is 2,000 and Tempe is 2,500. The travel and expense for these universities in these mega conferences is going to be ridiculous.

I don't think the 30 mil or travel is a deal breaker. If UConn is offered by Big 12, I think they go.

However, I do think that, as it's been reported, the Big 12 presidents want PAC teams and that UConn may not be likely to get an offer.

[bigdiggins]

The commish used UConn to pull pac 12 teams. UConn is not going to the Big 12 for a number of reasons but the two main ones are, the Big 12 presidents do not want them and UConn would have to part with $30 million. Wash, Oregon, Arizona and Arizona state will join the Big 12. But if UConn did, the closest university would be UC, which is 800 miles away. Boulder is 2,000 and Tempe is 2,500. The travel and expense for these universities in these mega conferences is going to be ridiculous.

It would actually be WVU which is 550 miles, but your point stands.

[XUGRAD80]

Regarding the distance between schools……google the Pioneer Football League.

Or how about Rutgers and the LA schools in the Big 10?

I don’t think that it’s the hindrance that it once was looked as being.

[nickgyp]

Regarding the distance between schools……google the Pioneer Football League.

Or how about Rutgers and the LA schools in the Big 10?

I don’t think that it’s the hindrance that it once was looked as being.

The economics will dictate the feasibility of committing an entire school’s athletic program to playing in one league. Outside basketball and football, the issue will be those the travel expenses associated with sports that traditionally produce little or no revenue. At least with the Pioneer League the travel costs only implicate football and none of the participating schools remaining sports.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The economics will dictate the feasibility of committing an entire school’s athletic program to playing in one league. Outside basketball and football, the issue will be those the travel expenses associated with sports that traditionally produce little or no revenue. At least with the Pioneer League the travel costs only implicate football and none of the participating schools remaining sports.

I don't know why people continue to see school after school choose conferences that make no geographical sense and then continue to insist another school won't or can't do it due to the travel of the non revenue generating sports.

These schools do not care, and are getting so much money from media deals, the travel costs are a non issue.

And the schools clearly do not care about the student athletes, so that is a non issue as well.

[Xville]

I don't know why people continue to see school after school choose conferences that make no geographical sense and then continue to insist another school won't or can't do it due to the travel of the non revenue generating sports.

These schools do not care, and are getting so much money from media deals, the travel costs are a non issue.

And the schools clearly do not care about the student athletes, so that is a non issue as well.

+1. Schools don’t care. It’s a drop in the bucket expense wise vs the money coming in directly and indirectly from the big 10 and secs of the world especially.

[XUGRAD80]

The economics will dictate the feasibility of committing an entire school’s athletic program to playing in one league. Outside basketball and football, the issue will be those the travel expenses associated with sports that traditionally produce little or no revenue. At least with the Pioneer League the travel costs only implicate football and none of the participating schools remaining sports.

Big East money is nothing compared to Big12 money. They would have plenty of cash coming in, far more than the extra travel costs will be. In addition, it would put their football team into a league, instead of being an independent. There would be a lot of reasons for UConn to look favorably on an invite from the B12.

As to your 2nd point…..The travel costs for football teams in the Pioneer league are a major burden for the athletic DEPARTMENTS of those schools, and thus affect the budgets for all the other sports. Individual sports do not exist in a vacuum. If X basketball suddenly wasn’t a cash cow, then other sports would have their budgets cut or would be dropped entirely.

[XUGRAD80]

I don't know why people continue to see school after school choose conferences that make no geographical sense and then continue to insist another school won't or can't do it due to the travel of the non revenue generating sports.

These schools do not care, and are getting so much money from media deals, the travel costs are a non issue.

And the schools clearly do not care about the student athletes, so that is a non issue as well.

Totally agree.

[D-West & PO-Z]

That is why I think it could be feasible that Gonzaga joins the BE one day.

However, the biggest hindrance there, is that the money we are discussing is a lot less for the BE than joining a football conference.

[nickgyp]

Big East money is nothing compared to Big12 money. They would have plenty of cash coming in, far more than the extra travel costs will be. In addition, it would put their football team into a league, instead of being an independent. There would be a lot of reasons for UConn to look favorably on an invite from the B12.

As to your 2nd point…..The travel costs for football teams in the Pioneer league are a major burden for the athletic DEPARTMENTS of those schools, and thus affect the budgets for all the other sports. Individual sports do not exist in a vacuum. If X basketball suddenly wasn’t a cash cow, then other sports would have their budgets cut or would be dropped entirely.

Regarding the travel costs for football in the PFL, I get that money is fungible. I am not sure how many of the PFL teams’ travel costs have to be diverted from other sports’ funding. My point about membership in the PFL is that the participant schools are not committed to sending other sports teams to the same trips for conference play.

[GoMuskies]

And the schools clearly do not care about the student athletes, so that is a non issue as well.

I think people overestimate the "hardships" being foisted upon student athletes in some of these deals, too. I guarantee you that the "road trip" Rutgers baseball will make to UCLA will be much more pleasant than the Wichita State to Indiana State or Evansville road trip that happened for 25 years that no one ever thought was a big deal.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I think people overestimate the "hardships" being foisted upon student athletes in some of these deals, too. I guarantee you that the "road trip" Rutgers baseball will make to UCLA will be much more pleasant than the Wichita State to Indiana State or Evansville road trip that happened for 25 years that no one ever thought was a big deal.

Yeah, I don't mean don't care in terms of comfort or whatever. The travel won't be an issue in terms of comfort. I just mean that the schools/conference/some fans want to play the "student" part of student athlete when it is convenient for their argument, but not when it comes to the absurdity of almost every UCLA road game in every sport being at least halfway across the country.

The travel for the big money sports won't be much worse or take that much longer, but I am sure the Olympic sports will have some crazy flight schedules and times that will certainly take longer going across the country every road game than staying on the west coast. Keeping the "student" away from the school longer.

[paulxu]

I wonder what the 99% of students who pay their "student fees" to support these hardship trips think about it all.

[GoMuskies]

I hear you. All I'm saying is that the kids from Rutgers tennis aren't going to be away from school any longer going to USC than the kids from Wichita State tennis were in going to Indiana State in 1985. I guess it's more of a talking point today, but it's not really more taxing on the "student" part of student athlete than it's been previously.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I hear you. All I'm saying is that the kids from Rutgers tennis aren't going to be away from school any longer going to USC than the kids from Wichita State tennis were in going to Indiana State in 1985. I guess it's more of a talking point today, but it's not really more taxing on the "student" part of student athlete than it's been previously.

Maybe not but while flying is more comfortable, there are a lot more variables. Will they have connections? Likely many times. Will they have delayed and cancelled flights? Likely many times. Flying across the country will likely ultimately result in a lot more time away from school than a 9 hour bus trip or a flight up the west coast.

Especially if you are comparing apples to apples of USC or UCLA being traveling within the PAC and not the Big 10, rather than comparing their new situation to Wichita having to play at ISU.

I don't know what conference that was but was that Wichita's furthest trip? Was that 1 time a year? USC and UCLA will be doing multipole times a year.

[GoMuskies]

That's the MVC. And Indiana State and Evansville are both 9 hour drives in a car. Significantly more in a bus, I suspect.

And I also suspect that Rutgers in 2024 will have better academic support for those tennis players than the average MVC school provided in 1985, and the technology of 2024 will make that time away from a physical classroom much less deterimental to the learning process than missing three days of classes was 40 years ago.

[D-West & PO-Z]

That's the MVC. And Indiana State and Evansville are both 9 hour drives in a car. Significantly more in a bus, I suspect.

And I also suspect that Rutgers in 2024 will have better academic support for those tennis players than the average MVC school provided in 1985, and the technology of 2024 will make that time away from a physical classroom much less deterimental to the learning process than missing three days of classes was 40 years ago.

Yeah, the technology part of it is a very fair point.

My guess is this discussion comes up more because of the hypocrisy of the NCAA and the schools in joining conferences that make no geographical sense for the sake of huge monetary deals that don't consider the "student" while trying to hold onto the amateurism of those same student athletes and saying there is no money to be had for them.

To be clear, I don't care if teams join a conference across the country. But I also don't want to hear how college sports are now ruined because players can make some money and the sanctity of college athletics is gone.

[MHettel]

Yeah, the technology part of it is a very fair point.

My guess is this discussion comes up more because of the hypocrisy of the NCAA and the schools in joining conferences that make no geographical sense for the sake of huge monetary deals that don't consider the "student" while trying to hold onto the amateurism of those same student athletes and saying there is no money to be had for them.

To be clear, I don't care if teams join a conference across the country. But I also don't want to hear how college sports are now ruined because players can make some money and the sanctity of college athletics is gone.

Yawn. you should just move to a commune.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Yawn. you should just move to a commune.

On cue.......

[XUBison]

On cue.......

Funny, I was thinking the same about your post.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Funny, I was thinking the same about your post.

On cue part deux.......

[D-West & PO-Z]

Pretty interesting side to be on when you are on the opposite side of the NCAA being hypocritical. Seems pretty obviously true.

Tough take. Couldn't be me.

[MHettel]

Pretty interesting side to be on when you are on the opposite side of the NCAA being hypocritical. Seems pretty obviously true.

Tough take. Couldn't be me.

Those poor college athletes! Free tuition and tons of perks that regular students don't get. "God status" on campus. Being on television. A lifetime of free drinks!

I mean we owe them SOMETHING right?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Those poor college athletes! Free tuition and tons of perks that regular students don't get. "God status" on campus. Being on television. A lifetime of free drinks!

I mean we owe them SOMETHING right?

This isn't even the topic of conversation, lol.

Also, every time you do that whole spiel, it just reeks of jealousy. It's like YMCA/rec league guy who's so mad he couldn't cut it, that regardless of what may be very reasonable changes, he's like, "No! They already have it so much better than me!"

[MHettel]

This isn't even the topic of conversation, lol.

Also, every time you do that whole spiel, it just reeks of jealousy. It's like YMCA/rec league guy who's so mad he couldn't cut it, that regardless of what may be very reasonable changes, he's like, "No! They already have it so much better than me!"

Ok, yeah. Got it.

And everytime you do your little "woke" sermon about how the college athletes are victims, and that they deserve justice even at the expense of destroying the entire framework that they operate under i cant help but wonder why you don't just move to San Francisco and get it over with.

[Xville]

Ok, yeah. Got it.

And everytime you do your little "woke" sermon about how the college athletes are victims, and that they deserve justice even at the expense of destroying the entire framework that they operate under i cant help but wonder why you don't just move to San Francisco and get it over with.

Wow I’ll take overdramatic and a little crazy for 500, Alex

[D-West & PO-Z]

Ok, yeah. Got it.

And everytime you do your little "woke" sermon about how the college athletes are victims, and that they deserve justice even at the expense of destroying the entire framework that they operate under i cant help but wonder why you don't just move to San Francisco and get it over with.

Absolutely hysterical.

This literally was about the absurdity of some of these conferences and the athletes who don't play football or basketball having to travel across the country for every home game. I also said I don't even feel bad for them or care that they have to do it. But when the NCAA then in other instances act like these are students first, I have to laugh.

Most any reasonable person, without an agenda or chip on their shoulder about how much better athletes had it than they did, would also do.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Ok, yeah. Got it.

And everytime you do your little "woke" sermon about how the college athletes are victims, and that they deserve justice even at the expense of destroying the entire framework that they operate under i cant help but wonder why you don't just move to San Francisco and get it over with.

Given that you seem to hate people being able to make what someone is willing to pay them (ie. capitalism), it seems the "woke" agenda may be more your style.

[X-band '01]

All I'll say is that if I ever get a lowball offer from an employer who tells me what a "privilege" it is to work for them, I'm running in the opposite direction and getting the hell out of Dodge.

[GoMuskies]

If you ever get an offer as lucrative as a full athletic scholarship and consider it a "lowball offer", congratulations on being big time. Because those things are fucking aweome I'm happy to say.

[XUGRAD80]

Since only about the top 5% of high school athletes ever get the chance to compete in college, and an even smaller % actually get an athletic scholarship, it’s time that some people realize that it is somewhat of a privilege to be a college athlete for most people.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… I see no reason to feel sorry for any of them. Nor do I think that any but the most self centered prima donna is going to complain about their travel schedule. IMO that conversation is a non-starter for the players involved. Most are willing to play anywhere and anytime. We are talking college students here….not 45-65 year old men. AND…..many of them are used to juggling school with a challenging travel schedule from the time that they start playing on select and/or travel teams. (Some as early as junior high).

[basket]

Wow this board has officially SUNK to an all time low!! Its pretty crappy when a message board that was put in plce to talk about XU basketball turns into The Great American divide between Trump supporters and then everybody else! Why can YOU people just get along and STOP bringing politics into EVERYTHING!! As Catholics, at least I thought, we have been taught to be grateful and thankful for what we have been given. Is that the case on here! NOPE!! When someone talks about "woke" on a college message board. And covid shots, what does that have to do with XU basketball! Lets PLEASE TRY to stay focused on what really matters on this message board and thats Coach Miller and our beloved Xavier Musketeers!!

PEACE!!

[GoMuskies]

Lets PLEASE TRY to stay focused on what really matters on this message board

Being the nuttiest fan base in college basketball?

[XUGRAD80]

Wow this board has officially SUNK to an all time low!! Its pretty crappy when a message board that was put in plce to talk about XU basketball turns into The Great American divide between Trump supporters and then everybody else! Why can YOU people just get along and STOP bringing politics into EVERYTHING!! As Catholics, at least I thought, we have been taught to be grateful and thankful for what we have been given. Is that the case on here! NOPE!! When someone talks about "woke" on a college message board. And covid shots, what does that have to do with XU basketball! Lets PLEASE TRY to stay focused on what really matters on this message board and thats Coach Miller and our beloved Xavier Musketeers!!

PEACE!!


It’s the off-season (also know as the wacky season), what do you expect? :seestars:

[nuts4xu]

Being the nuttiest fan base in college basketball?

Don't know how many people on this board will get this comment, but it made me actually laugh out loud.

Blast from the past. Well done sir!

[XUGRAD80]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38116124/sources-pac-12-leaders-presented-apple-streaming-deal


I don’t think that Apple Streaming is what the PAC schools were hoping for.

[STL_XUfan]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38116124/sources-pac-12-leaders-presented-apple-streaming-deal


I don’t think that Apple Streaming is what the PAC schools were hoping for.

I will say that the MLS coverage on Apple TV has been great. Sucks that it adds a barrier to someone just randomly coming across it, but for a fan it has been wonderful.

[paulxu]

I guess you could estimate fan support (student and alumni numbers) to forecast some revenue stream...but that seems iffy.
Having your 2 biggest schools (I think) leaving can't help. Nor this:


Based on those prior deals with MLB and MLS, Apple does not produce the games, which leaves the Pac-12 and its schools with the production cost and could impact bottom-line numbers for the schools.

[smileyy]

If you'd have asked me I would have guessed Colorado was already in the Big 12

[XU_Lou]

They used to be - when it was the Big 8, and then a few years in the Big 12.

[STL_XUfan]

If you'd have asked me I would have guessed Colorado was already in the Big 12

They were the first domino to fall when Texas overplayed its hand and demanded an uneven revenue share of the Big 12 media rights plus all of the revenue from the longhorn network. Nebraska and Missouri followed suit shortly after.

[Muskie]

I will say that the MLS coverage on Apple TV has been great. Sucks that it adds a barrier to someone just randomly coming across it, but for a fan it has been wonderful.

I agree on this. It's been very well done.

[MHettel]

They were the first domino to fall when Texas overplayed its hand and demanded an uneven revenue share of the Big 12 media rights plus all of the revenue from the longhorn network. Nebraska and Missouri followed suit shortly after.

Did Texas overplay their hand? Or did they just play their hand? I dont see how they lose in that situation.

[GoMuskies]

Yes, I'm sure Texas was devastated to lose conference affiliation with...checks notes....Colorado, Nebraska and Missouri.

Texas A&M may have stung a bit.

[bjf123]

I agree on this. It's been very well done.

It will be even better next year when you’ll be able to get the away team radio broadcast.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Xville]

Did Texas overplay their hand? Or did they just play their hand? I dont see how they lose in that situation.

Well had Texas not been complete a holes there could have been a situation where the big 12 would be neck and neck with sec, big ten of today. Nebraska at the time was still close to a national football power, A&M has a crap ton of money, Mizzou was actually good then and the big 12 could have enticed some name brand schools.

I guess like you implied Texas doesn’t give a f but they probably wouldn’t have had to move conferences and still made just as much money.

[STL_XUfan]

Yes, I'm sure Texas was devastated to lose conference affiliation with...checks notes....Colorado, Nebraska and Missouri.

Texas A&M may have stung a bit.

They certainly wanted to have an even share with what Mizzou is getting now, hence them leaving the Big 12.

[GoMuskies]

Yes, they clearly want the money. They may even notice that Mizzou is in their conference.

[Xville]

Yes, they clearly want the money. They may even notice that Mizzou is in their conference.

I think the point here a they could have still been the premier program of the conference and still made just as much money. Now at best they are probably 4th or 5th

[XUGRAD80]

My opinion is that if Apple Streaming is the best that the PAC leadership can come up with, that conference won’t be around much longer.

Reported that the BIG10 presidents have already met and discussed who they might want after the PAC shuts the doors and/or teams begin to look for somewhere to go. Oregon, Washington, Cal, and Stanford have all been mentioned.

The vultures are circling.

[D-West & PO-Z]

So basically it looks like Arizona, ASU, and Utah to Big 12. Then possibly UW, Stanford, CAL, and Oregon to the Big 10?

Who does that leave? WSU and Oregon State? Is that it? So the PAC goes extinct? Or merges with Mountain West or something as I think I have seen suggested?

Wild times.

[GoMuskies]

Is Bill Walton on suicide watch?

[XUGRAD80]

So basically it looks like Arizona, ASU, and Utah to Big 12. Then possibly UW, Stanford, CAL, and Oregon to the Big 10?

Who does that leave? WSU and Oregon State? Is that it? So the PAC goes extinct? Or merges with Mountain West or something as I think I have seen suggested?

Wild times.

No telling how this is all going to work out when the dust settles, but one thing is for sure……when it comes to conference affiliations, never say never.

[paulxu]

Do the networks sort of automatically increase the payout if a conference expands members?
Maybe it depends on who it is and what eyeballs they bring.

[xudash]

Do the networks sort of automatically increase the payout if a conference expands members?
Maybe it depends on who it is and what eyeballs they bring.

Paul, I believe UCONN would have already been gone to the Big 12 by now if that were the case - an auto increase of $31mm per year for UCONN to normalize the Big 12's new media agreement for all schools.

Your second sentence answers your question.

[waggy]

I’m a conference realignment junkie, and I’ve OD’d. Man, is there a lot bullshit out there.

What schools the B1G might add is very interesting. My view is that Oregon isn’t really preferred except for by FOX. And does Stanford even want to go where college football is going?

The B1G can’t just take the 2 best programs out a conference and watch it die. They’re going to have to take on at least 2 more whether they want them or not.

[XUGRAD80]

Do the networks sort of automatically increase the payout if a conference expands members?
Maybe it depends on who it is and what eyeballs they bring.

No…it depends on the contract that was made as to how that is handled.

[paulxu]

The B1G can’t just take the 2 best programs out a conference and watch it die. They’re going to have to take on at least 2 more whether they want them or not.

Wags, that's interesting. Why would they have to take 2 more?

[waggy]

Wags, that's interesting. Why would they have to take 2 more?

I'm not sure the Big12 has room for all the leftovers. On the other hand it's kinda assumed that Oregon St and Wash St will effectively get demoted to G5 status, so I guess if it's good enough for them it's good enough for the others that don't get into the B12.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Do the networks sort of automatically increase the payout if a conference expands members?
Maybe it depends on who it is and what eyeballs they bring.

I was wondering the same thing. Otherwise why would the schools in the conference already want to add more.

[sirthought]

Do the networks sort of automatically increase the payout if a conference expands members?
Maybe it depends on who it is and what eyeballs they bring.

In the case of the current Big 12 contract I believe that's correct. Before they would have had to divide the pie to smaller amounts. Now the network has to give a new school an equal share to what they others are already getting.

I don't know if other conferences have that.

[basket]

Don't know how many people on this board will get this comment, but it made me actually laugh out loud.

Blast from the past. Well done sir!


How many years ago did I do that? I'm surprised SOME of you remember that!!


Boy those were the good ol' days!!

[X-band '01]

Is it weird that I also remember that or weirder that I remember Virginia Tech actually won that contest?

Not UVa, Virginia Tech.

[Xuperman]

Well, the PAC-12 has imploded. Only 4 schools remain and they likely will not get a "Power 4" invite. Looks like the Mountain West is in their future.

[paulxu]

But…but…Apple Streaming GOR ��

[Xuperman]

If any of the remaining 4 end up in the MWC, there could be an upside. IF they can manage to adjust to a serious reduction in their AD budget, one would think that any of those schools would be highly competitive in that conference. Given that the new 12 team playoff invites the top SIX conference Champions, a shot at a National Championship becomes more realistic than continuing to be PAC12 bottom feeders.

[paulxu]

I’m having some trouble following all the shuffling. A diagram would be helpful.
Although this remains to be seen, I think the C7 did a smart thing years ago becoming the current BE.
Absent the big boys and CBS wrecking the tournament, I’m enjoying our current position.