Xavier: A Glimpse Into the Future

[xudash]

It doesn't take an aerospace engineer to appreciate how fortunate Xavier is today as compared to the night the Xavier men's basketball team took the floor against Cleveland State in the first round of last year's NIT with Travis Steele still at the helm. First and foremost was the fact that yet another NCAAT was missed. Then there was the truly chilling issue of the lack of fan interest at that contest; the Cintas Center looked like a shell of its former self as compared to when guys like Trevon Bluiett and J P Macura lit the place up in the very recent past.

As a few of you have noted, imagine if certain bid thieves had not "come through" for us, leaving us with Travis still.

But now we are past all that. Our coach has come home. I fully expect him to stay on Victory Parkway for a long time, and given his knowledge and understanding of the game and what it takes to be successful, I see him knowing/recognizing when the time comes for him to step down. The good news is that I don't see us having to worry about that for many years.

An NCAAT 3-Seed out of the gate and living in the Top 25 for a large chunk of the season! And with a roster he didn't put together save for one key contributor that he and his staff found and brought in.

All of the above is about a glorious reset and the NOW. I can only hope that Clark Kellogg is truly prescient. Would that not be insane and a wonderful story for Xavier to make it to the F4, having won the NIT the year before. Any way you cut it, Xavier basketball is well positioned for the future with Sean back in Cincinnati - SO LONG AS THE BUSINESS SIDE OF THINGS DEVELOP IN OUR FAVOR.

That is what this post is about. I am as much, if not more focused on where we are headed with our next media agreement as I am on this year's tournament, even though I know I'm premature on the former given the timing of where it stands. Nonetheless, as sometimes happens with human beings who get excited and who are in the know - not me; I'm talking about people who are really in the know on this issue - little blurbs make it out here and there, giving us at least a sense of where all this may be headed.

Please allow me to share the attached from HLOH: https://frontofficesports.com/basketball-conference-can-still-survive-thrive-in-ncaa/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=article-sharing


Key Quotes:

“It’s too early to say where that deal will land — and how we adapt to the changing media landscape,” Ackerman said. “Because it’s not the same as it was 10 years ago. There’s players now that didn’t exist. We’re now into a world of streaming.”

A representative from the network was unavailable to comment for this story, but a spokesperson sent the following stats: The men’s regular-season games averaged 779,000 viewers — a tie for the most-watched regular season ever on Fox. The women’s season averaged 285,000 viewers, the most across networks ever.

Fox would be hard-pressed not to at least consider a renewal.

Ackerman said she doesn’t often think about her early days at the Big East, given the whirlwind of changes the industry currently faces. But she agrees the conference is dealing from a position of strength — particularly compared to its rebirth a decade ago.

“I just sort of say, ‘God, I’m glad we got through all of that,’” Ackerman said. “I’m glad, to the extent there were naysayers, our schools proved them wrong. That’s satisfying.”


So, I'm not reading "negative" into any of that at all. Translation: I don't see our per school payout per year going down with the existing 11 members involved. I also personally don't believe that the quoted material gives enough credit to the relationship between the Big East and Fox. I believe that relationship is thought to be very strong and engaging. It was wonderful reading about how strong the MSG relationship was and is with the Big East. That has been a key component of our overall success.

My bottomline with all this is simple: let us wake up one day and read that the Big East has successfully entered into a new multi-year media agreement that clearly evidences the power of the Big East in college basketball, and that the duration of that agreement enables the Big East and its members to navigate through what transpires with NIL/collectives, portal dynamics, etc. I'm talking about establishing a reasonable level of wherewithal, understanding that we will never be able to compete against a land grant school's alumni base and its collectives.

Change may be constant. But solidifying one's position to thrive through change is what this is about. Money can only help with that. Brand strengthening can only help with that. Those two things create a beautiful circular reference when they're spinning together in a complimentary fashion. A very strong new media package will provide a stamp of relevance and respect for the Big East and its members.

If this thing works out well for us, Xavier will be well positioned for the foreseeable future. We are now months from specifically understanding how this will shake out, but learning here and there by the day that it looks like it will shake out quite well gives me hope.

[XU_Lou]

Great post.

How crucial do you think it is for the BE to have a strong showing in the tourney this year?

Also, does anyone think adding Pitino in the mix makes us more attractive from a TV contract POV?

[xudash]

Great post.

How crucial do you think it is for the BE to have a strong showing in the tourney this year?

Also, does anyone think adding Pitino in the mix makes us more attractive from a TV contract POV?

Lou, thanks.

To your first question: very crucial. It's all about optics now. I'm hoping for at least 3 BE teams to the S16. And I would love to see X breakthrough - certainly with a sprinkle of luck involved - to the F4. We got almost 50% of our conference into the NCAAT. Let's show the world there was a good reason for that.

As far as Pitino is concerned, I read Nick's thoughts about it and I have to say that he made very good points. Nonetheless, I'll be the greasy business guy here: Pitino can only help the television package. It's that simple. It may have been MHettle who countered that the Johnnies could onboard him and have him turn it around for about 5 years, then move on to a coach who could take it from there. The timing is NOW though, onboard him now in order to have hi in the mix for the next media negotiation. I'm not saying one individual alone will sway multiple more millions our way, but think about it from a TV exec's point-of-view. Pitino. NYC. Johnnies. BE. Casual fan interest should bump handsomely from that.

[xavierj]

Great post.

How crucial do you think it is for the BE to have a strong showing in the tourney this year?

Also, does anyone think adding Pitino in the mix makes us more attractive from a TV contract POV?

Yes on Pitino. A strong St John’s with the NYC market would be a very good thing.

[xudash]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/college-basketball/article-11838441/Big-East-conference-reincarnated-10-years-death-original.html

Now the Brits are chiming in. If you read the attached article and came away with wonderful chills and a smile, I'm right there with you.

The reborn BE should be a business case study in B-school:

* "We're going to give you a bunch of our money, but we want the conference name and MSG"

* "Ha! Sure, no problem. But we're taking all the back office infrastructure along with the money"

* Okay. Enjoy Providence and competing in football. We're moving to NYC.

I believe we all know how all this turned out.

I hope we truly have a great tournament, but damn if I'm not excited for the future. It's aligning very well in Xavier's best interests.

[Masterofreality]

The Fox coverage of the Big East Tournament was 100% first class. Absolutely superb.
-Multiple cameras and varying angles. Made a difference in at least one game.
-A Drone camera in the building
-Floor level camera to show how packed the stands were.
-Top Shelf announcers.
- Great Pre and Post game shows..

I hope Fox is our partner for a long time!

[GoMuskies]

The Fox coverage of the Big East Tournament was 100% first class. Absolutely superb.
-Multiple cameras and varying angles. Made a difference in at least one game.
-A Drone camera in the building
-Floor level camera to show how packed the stands were.
-Top Shelf announcers.
- Great Pre and Post game shows..

I hope Fox is our partner for a long time!

Add Roundball Rock as the theme!

[XU_Lou]

Lou, thanks.

To your first question: very crucial. It's all about optics now. I'm hoping for at least 3 BE teams to the S16. And I would love to see X breakthrough - certainly with a sprinkle of luck involved - to the F4. We got almost 50% of our conference into the NCAAT. Let's show the world there was a good reason for that.

As far as Pitino is concerned, I read Nick's thoughts about it and I have to say that he made very good points. Nonetheless, I'll be the greasy business guy here: Pitino can only help the television package. It's that simple. It may have been MHettle who countered that the Johnnies could onboard him and have him turn it around for about 5 years, then move on to a coach who could take it from there. The timing is NOW though, onboard him now in order to have hi in the mix for the next media negotiation. I'm not saying one individual alone will sway multiple more millions our way, but think about it from a TV exec's point-of-view. Pitino. NYC. Johnnies. BE. Casual fan interest should bump handsomely from that.

Dash - agree with all this.

Regardless of how long Pitino would coach (assuming he does make a move), he's a national name that would make the BE more attractive for a TV contract (hopefully Fox). So yes, I believe he would be a positive when negotiations start.

And to MOR's point, that tourney was awesome. Would love to know how the attendance and TV eye balls for the BE compares to the other 5 F-ball conferences. Moreover, every game except the championship was a barn burner - great entertainment!

[Masterofreality]

And to MOR's point, that tourney was awesome. Would love to know how the attendance and TV eye balls for the BE compares to the other 5 F-ball conferences. Moreover, every game except the championship was a barn burner - great entertainment!

As to the Big East, once the Wednesday session sold out, the entire Tournament was guaranteed to be a sellout.
19,812 on Wednesday, Two sessions on Thursday each, Friday and Saturday. Awesome.
I’ll research on other conferences, but I’ll wager none had a higher average than 19,812.

[zippin']

When is the date for the TV renewal? I've seen that mentioned a ton but when can we expect to know more?

[Masterofreality]

When is the date for the TV renewal? I've seen that mentioned a ton but when can we expect to know more?

2025. It was a 12 year deal that started 2013.

[Xavier]

A strong new deal would help keep the conference together. Still worried about the Big12 poaching.

[XU_Lou]

2025. It was a 12 year deal that started 2013.

However, Val was quoted last week as saying that talks/negotiations could start this spring/summer.

[Masterofreality]

And to MOR's point, that tourney was awesome. Would love to know how the attendance and TV eye balls for the BE compares to the other 5 F-ball conferences. Moreover, every game except the championship was a barn burner - great entertainment!

Ok!! Here we go! The Big East had the highest average attendance per session at 19,812. Total sellout.
Two Conferences - the SEC and Big 10 had a higher total attendance but they also had 7 sessions.
Here are the breakouts with average Attendance and total.
1) Big East : 99,060 total, 19,812 avg (5 sessions)
2) Big 12 : 90,110 total , 18,022 avg (5 sessions)
3) Big 10: 116,918 total , 16,720 avg (7 sessions)
4) SEC : 112,388 total , 16,055 avg (7 sessions)
5) ACC: 91,990 total. , 13,142 avg. (7 sessions)
6) PAC 12: 65,,721 total , 10,953 avg. (6 sessions)

By the way. A couple of more Conferences of interest:
-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC : 36,924 total. , 6,504 avg. (6 sessions)
- Atlantic 10: 46,924 total , 6,417 avg. (7 sessions)

The Garden is magical and off the hook. That is why the Big East Tournament rules over all.

[zippin']

However, Val was quoted last week as saying that talks/negotiations could start this spring/summer.

So it seems like anything could happen at any moment then? I would assume if the BE has a good showing in the tournament, Ackerman will want to start ASAP.

[Caveat]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/college-basketball/article-11838441/Big-East-conference-reincarnated-10-years-death-original.html

Now the Brits are chiming in. If you read the attached article and came away with wonderful chills and a smile, I'm right there with you.

The reborn BE should be a business case study in B-school:

* "We're going to give you a bunch of our money, but we want the conference name and MSG"

* "Ha! Sure, no problem. But we're taking all the back office infrastructure along with the money"

* Okay. Enjoy Providence and competing in football. We're moving to NYC.

I believe we all know how all this turned out.

I hope we truly have a great tournament, but damn if I'm not excited for the future. It's aligning very well in Xavier's best interests.

I made my first trip to MSG for the tournament this year.

I’m never missing one again. It’s that cool of an experience.

[XU_Lou]

Ok!! Here we go! The Big East had the highest average attendance per session at 19,812. Total sellout.
Two Conferences - the SEC and Big 10 had a higher total attendance but they also had 7 sessions.
Here are the breakouts with average Attendance and total.
1) Big East : 99,060 total, 19,812 avg (5 sessions)
2) Big 12 : 90,110 total , 18,022 avg (5 sessions)
3) Big 10: 116,918 total , 16,720 avg (7 sessions)
4) SEC : 112,388 total , 16,055 avg (7 sessions)
5) ACC: 91,990 total. , 13,142 avg. (7 sessions)
6) PAC 12: 65,,721 total , 10,953 avg. (6 sessions)

By the way. A couple of more Conferences of interest:
-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC : 36,924 total. , 6,504 avg. (6 sessions)
- Atlantic 10: 46,924 total , 6,417 avg. (7 sessions)

The Garden is magical and off the hook. That is why the Big East Tournament rules over all.

Wow - those are some significant differences! Especially when you consider the number of great years many of those teams had in the B12 and SEC. Hopefully that also translated into more TV eye balls per game. Certainly, you have to think this will also help when the BE goes to negotiate a new TV contract.

[XU_Lou]

So it seems like anything could happen at any moment then? I would assume if the BE has a good showing in the tournament, Ackerman will want to start ASAP.

Here's what I saw last week:

"NEWS: Big East Commissioner Val Ackerman announces that the conference will be initiating talks about a renewal deal with media rights holder FOX Sports in the coming months."

https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1633523513842647040

[D-West & PO-Z]

Add Roundball Rock as the theme!

As a huge fan of the NBA in the 90's, this alone is the my favorite reason we are on Fox!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Ok!! Here we go! The Big East had the highest average attendance per session at 19,812. Total sellout.
Two Conferences - the SEC and Big 10 had a higher total attendance but they also had 7 sessions.
Here are the breakouts with average Attendance and total.
1) Big East : 99,060 total, 19,812 avg (5 sessions)
2) Big 12 : 90,110 total , 18,022 avg (5 sessions)
3) Big 10: 116,918 total , 16,720 avg (7 sessions)
4) SEC : 112,388 total , 16,055 avg (7 sessions)
5) ACC: 91,990 total. , 13,142 avg. (7 sessions)
6) PAC 12: 65,,721 total , 10,953 avg. (6 sessions)

By the way. A couple of more Conferences of interest:
-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC : 36,924 total. , 6,504 avg. (6 sessions)
- Atlantic 10: 46,924 total , 6,417 avg. (7 sessions)

The Garden is magical and off the hook. That is why the Big East Tournament rules over all.

Any TV #'s out?

[sirthought]

While the conference is drawing ticketed seats, they aren't doing nearly as well with eyeballs on the screen.

Marquette-Xavier Big East Championship pulled a 0.53 and 980,000 on FOX — down 12% and 20% respectively from last year (Villanova-Creighton: 0.6, 1.22M) and the second-lowest for the game since it last aired on FS1 in 2015 (Villanova-Xavier: 414K).

The ratings for the championship game were lower than all of the bigger conferences, and even lower than the AAC, Mountain West, and A-10.

For FS1 overall, the Big East is under performing compared to the Big Ten games they air. By a wide margin.

And although the Big East has greatly improved its ratings since 2014, their numbers are middling overall.

https://painttouches.com/2022/08/05/big-east-financials-how-have-tv-ratings-performed/

This guy is predicting that the Big East will likely stay with Fox and double their TV revenue, at around $75M to $80M a year for seven years.

https://painttouches.com/2022/08/26/what-are-big-east-tv-rights-worth/

[xavierj]

While the conference is drawing ticketed seats, they aren't doing nearly as well with eyeballs on the screen.

Marquette-Xavier Big East Championship pulled a 0.53 and 980,000 on FOX — down 12% and 20% respectively from last year (Villanova-Creighton: 0.6, 1.22M) and the second-lowest for the game since it last aired on FS1 in 2015 (Villanova-Xavier: 414K).

The ratings for the championship game were lower than all of the bigger conferences, and even lower than the AAC, Mountain West, and A-10.

For FS1 overall, the Big East is under performing compared to the Big Ten games they air. By a wide margin.

And although the Big East has greatly improved its ratings since 2014, their numbers are middling overall.

https://painttouches.com/2022/08/05/big-east-financials-how-have-tv-ratings-performed/

This guy is predicting that the Big East will likely stay with Fox and double their TV revenue, at around $75M to $80M a year for seven years.

https://painttouches.com/2022/08/26/what-are-big-east-tv-rights-worth/

No way more people actually turned their TV’s on to watch the A-10 final. A lot of that is sports bars across the country all
Have espn on and I doubt many had the Fox network on unless someone asked them to turn it on. I think that probably hurts the ratings. Yes the Big 10 probably does better ratings but when you have universities with 40,000 plus students that will happen. The Big East does very well considering most universities are relatively small and FS1 is a lot harder to find for the casual person than Espn is. It’s just reality but I think the ratings will improve as the brand grows and Fox continues to market the conference brand.

[sirthought]

No way more people actually turned their TV’s on to watch the A-10 final. A lot of that is sports bars across the country all
Have espn on and I doubt many had the Fox network on unless someone asked them to turn it on.

I doubt a ton of bars were showing the A-10 game at 1 p.m. on a Sunday, but maybe they were. I'm not even sure how much out-of-home viewers are counted in the rating system.

The VCU-Dayton Atlantic-10 Tournament final drew a 0.8 and 1.39 million on CBS Sunday, down a tick in ratings but up 5% in viewership from last year and the most-watched edition of the game since 2017 (Rhode Island-VCU: 1.6M).

So...a bit more viewers for A-10 than the Big East game. Other than the AAC game featuring #1 Houston, I'd have thought that two ranked teams in XU and MU would attract more viewers, but it seems they didn't.

As the one column points out, when the FS1 contract first started there were few Big East games on the main Fox channel. Over the years they've increased those and they've had much better viewership than FS1. But the risk for the network is do you hurt FS1 by playing more big games on Fox? Or do you try to gain more casual watchers on Fox with the hope they become more familiar with Big East teams? We obviously live in a niche compared to average casual sports fans.

[zippin']

While the conference is drawing ticketed seats, they aren't doing nearly as well with eyeballs on the screen.

Marquette-Xavier Big East Championship pulled a 0.53 and 980,000 on FOX — down 12% and 20% respectively from last year (Villanova-Creighton: 0.6, 1.22M) and the second-lowest for the game since it last aired on FS1 in 2015 (Villanova-Xavier: 414K).

The ratings for the championship game were lower than all of the bigger conferences, and even lower than the AAC, Mountain West, and A-10.

For FS1 overall, the Big East is under performing compared to the Big Ten games they air. By a wide margin.

And although the Big East has greatly improved its ratings since 2014, their numbers are middling overall.

https://painttouches.com/2022/08/05/big-east-financials-how-have-tv-ratings-performed/

This guy is predicting that the Big East will likely stay with Fox and double their TV revenue, at around $75M to $80M a year for seven years.

https://painttouches.com/2022/08/26/what-are-big-east-tv-rights-worth/

Re: BE Champ #s

It's hard for me to put too much into this since the game was a 20 point blowout 5 minutes in. With the way people check scores on their phones, who in their right mind is going to switch to that game unless they're a Marquette fan or hate Xavier? The A10 Champ game was very close (and is a 1 bid league so the winner really mattered in that game), and the AAC Champ game was close + #1 Houston losing. I would have been shocked if the BE Champ game was higher than either of those.

EDIT: I also agree with XavierJ that it's going to be basically impossible for tiny private schools like many in the BE to compete with B10 or B12 schools that have 60k students there. It just isn't going to happen.

[Masterofreality]

The only way the TV viewership gets corrected is for numerous Big East teams to go on deep NCAA Tournament runs. That is how you build recognition.
We need at least 3-4 teams this year to get into the second weekend. The Tournament is when most people watch college basketball.

[Xville]

Yep.. only way for be to increase their viewership are runs in march by multiple parties and over multiple years. Also, Georgetown and St. John’s need to be good again. They are in huge markets with historical success. I think we all need to be honest with ourselves and understand that Xavier doesn’t move the needle for anyone right now outside of our small fanbase. Maybe it will once miller takes us to a few final fours.

[UCGRAD4X]

Something else that might affect viewership (probably to a smaller degree) - many are small schools and many of the students and fans go to the games.

Agreed that winning solves a lot of woes. Only March really matters.

[XUGRAD80]

I somewhat disagree that it is ONLY March that matters, although doing well in March is certainly the foundation. Scheduling, and winning, against other “national powers” in the OCC on a regular enough basis that those matchups are carried on National TV, is also important. Xavier, and the BE, can’t be something that pops up once a year for a month, shines brightly, and then goes away for another year. The BE teams need to compete against the top teams on a regular basis, and beat them often enough that the TV networks will continue to schedule and show those games on a regular basis. But you’re correct that doing well in March on a regular basis is the first step in making that happen.

[JTG]

Sunday afternoon before the Selection Show and BIG Champ is a much better time slot than 6:30 Sat Night. And CBS has way more eyeballs than FOX.

[Wheelhouse]

I wouldn't read too much into the Big East championship game ratings. We got absolutely smoked from the jump and the game was on Saturday night. Most, if not all, of the other championship games listed were on Sunday afternoon. Huge difference.

[D-West & PO-Z]

While the conference is drawing ticketed seats, they aren't doing nearly as well with eyeballs on the screen.

Marquette-Xavier Big East Championship pulled a 0.53 and 980,000 on FOX — down 12% and 20% respectively from last year (Villanova-Creighton: 0.6, 1.22M) and the second-lowest for the game since it last aired on FS1 in 2015 (Villanova-Xavier: 414K).

The ratings for the championship game were lower than all of the bigger conferences, and even lower than the AAC, Mountain West, and A-10.

For FS1 overall, the Big East is under performing compared to the Big Ten games they air. By a wide margin.

And although the Big East has greatly improved its ratings since 2014, their numbers are middling overall.

https://painttouches.com/2022/08/05/big-east-financials-how-have-tv-ratings-performed/

This guy is predicting that the Big East will likely stay with Fox and double their TV revenue, at around $75M to $80M a year for seven years.

https://painttouches.com/2022/08/26/what-are-big-east-tv-rights-worth/

Yeah this is what I was afraid of.

However, it is encouraging that someone in the industry does predict we resign with Fox for double the revenue. That seems good to me on it's face, right?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Yep.. only way for be to increase their viewership are runs in march by multiple parties and over multiple years. Also, Georgetown and St. John’s need to be good again. They are in huge markets with historical success. I think we all need to be honest with ourselves and understand that Xavier doesn’t move the needle for anyone right now outside of our small fanbase. Maybe it will once miller takes us to a few final fours.

Absolutely Xavier does not move the needle. Not even in Cincinnati unfortunately. All you have to do is listen to local sports talk radio where on Monday and Tuesday after Selection Sunday 98% of the sports talk is about the Reds, Bengals, and others and Xavier gets a token mention.

Mo Egger did have Miller on for an interview Monday but if UC got a 3 seed it would be the the only thing talked about Monday. It just comes down to numbers, there aren't the number of Xavier fans that there are UC.

[sirthought]

I somewhat disagree that it is ONLY March that matters, although doing well in March is certainly the foundation. Scheduling, and winning, against other “national powers” in the OCC on a regular enough basis that those matchups are carried on National TV, is also important. Xavier, and the BE, can’t be something that pops up once a year for a month, shines brightly, and then goes away for another year. The BE teams need to compete against the top teams on a regular basis, and beat them often enough that the TV networks will continue to schedule and show those games on a regular basis. But you’re correct that doing well in March on a regular basis is the first step in making that happen.

Thanks Captain Obvious.

Of course...it all matters. You don't get a successful team in March without jumping through all the hoops during the whole season. And that's what I love about it, but most people don't seem to have the patience for.

[sirthought]

The enrollment at Big East schools does impact ratings, no doubt.

The biggest school, DePaul, has been one of the worst performers for more than a decade. The next biggest, Georgetown, hasn't been much better. Third biggest, St. Johns, you guessed it. But these schools enrollment are tiny numbers compared to even many DII schools. It's amazing the budgets that get spent on sports, considering the size of the school.

If FS1 doubles their annual take they are doing really well!

Part of the issue with comparing to the Big Ten is FS1 get's to pick and choose which games to air, and therefore often picks games with greater significance. Most every Big East game is aired, and thus there are some really dud boring matches that happen.

That can still be a positive for a network that has to fill their inventory, and if Big East cost less than other conferences it means good value.

The risk moving forward with negotiations is that some other conference could come in with fewer games, similar pricing and possibly bigger ratings. FS1 can still fill their inventory with other rising sports like F1 racing, soccer, etc.

[Masterofreality]

The risk moving forward with negotiations is that some other conference could come in with fewer games, similar pricing and possibly bigger ratings. FS1 can still fill their inventory with other rising sports like F1 racing, soccer, etc.

Sir, you seem to really be dialed in to the media world.
Could you see a scenario where either Fox Re-ups with the Big East and spins off more games to CBS Sports Net or another network like TBS or some other one that has a Sports Presence? Maybe even the CW that is dipping their toes into golf? Or maybe there is a split arrangement between 2 entities? That would free up more airtime for Fox to cover Big 10 and Racing
I mean, I like what we have, but is it realistic to expect it to continue as is?

[sirthought]

My guess is that Fox will continue to invest risk into emerging sports, because ESPN and ABC have such a lock on many big events, but somewhat lack diversity. Their inventory is so much bigger than Fox. But as the niche audiences grow, the big events for those fields will have significance to the network over time.

Whether this hurts or helps Big East is hard for me to say. Personally I think FS1 being a reliable destination has helped Big East. I'm usually disappointed with the CBS Sports or others' broadcast teams. ESPN+ games, in general, lack polish. Fox does a great job overall. It's nice not to have to hunt and search. The Big East should value that even if more money comes out of another package.

I've heard about talk of the Big East starting its own network. That would be foolish without a bigger sport like football to catch viewers some of the year and you're tied into the cable system, which is not really what's happening in the future.

Other cable networks are dipping their toes into sports more and more, as their traditional syndicated reruns and movie programming is challenging to ask for ad revenue. This year saw more college hoops on USA network.

But also, the streaming services are trying to lock up some of these. FS1 will be competing with the likes of Apple and Prime, as the younger generation isn't as tied to watching things live, but want access to watching the games anywhere across several devices.

Who knows. I believe they offer a good programming option for a lot of outlets, but it might not be the slam dunk for revenue that some people believe is coming. There's a lot of competition.

[xu82]

I 100% agree I don’t want to go hunting and pecking to find every game. That gets annoying. I hope they can find a way to keep it simple and available.

[xudash]

I'll put this here, because the article gets to the heart of what largely matters for our basketball future: conference affiliation and media deal - from an article posted on HLOH by a fellow Xavier fan:

https://www.si.com/college/2023/05/15/college-football-expansion-whats-next-power-5-conferences

IMHO, it's as simple as the Big East having to hold on to UCONN. The Big East wouldn't die if UCONN were to be plucked by the Big 12, but the optics would be bad, and a lot of leverage needed for the next media rights negotiation would be lost.

Did you ever think that we would be in a position of maybe having to root for the demise of the PAC 10? If the Big 12 successfully pulls away the Arizona schools, Utah and Colorado, then its belly should be full enough and we won't have to worry about it. If the PAC 10 survives this round - by grabbing SDSU and SMU - then the aggressive Big 12 heat lamp will look elsewhere.

Nothing is easy or automatic for them.

It isn't a forgone conclusion that UCONN will leave the BE - again.

Buckle up, friends. Xavier and the Big East are on the verge of entering into an even better situation on the media rights end if things hold together. How much it goes up will partially be a function of market conditions (media and economy) when Val cranks up the dialogue, but we should still be better off than $4mm per year.

It's going to be an interesting summer.

p.s. Being the Athletic Director at Boston College, Wake Forest and Syracuse, in particular, is an Alka-Seltzer job at this point.

[MHettel]

I'll put this here, because the article gets to the heart of what largely matters for our basketball future: conference affiliation and media deal - from an article posted on HLOH by a fellow Xavier fan:

https://www.si.com/college/2023/05/15/college-football-expansion-whats-next-power-5-conferences

IMHO, it's as simple as the Big East having to hold on to UCONN. The Big East wouldn't die if UCONN were to be plucked by the Big 12, but the optics would be bad, and a lot of leverage needed for the next media rights negotiation would be lost.

Did you ever think that we would be in a position of maybe having to root for the demise of the PAC 10? If the Big 12 successfully pulls away the Arizona schools, Utah and Colorado, then its belly should be full enough and we won't have to worry about it. If the PAC 10 survives this round - by grabbing SDSU and SMU - then the aggressive Big 12 heat lamp will look elsewhere.

Nothing is easy or automatic for them.

It isn't a forgone conclusion that UCONN will leave the BE - again.

Buckle up, friends. Xavier and the Big East are on the verge of entering into an even better situation on the media rights end if things hold together. How much it goes up will partially be a function of market conditions (media and economy) when Val cranks up the dialogue, but we should still be better off than $4mm per year.

It's going to be an interesting summer.

p.s. Being the Athletic Director at Boston College, Wake Forest and Syracuse, in particular, is an Alka-Seltzer job at this point.

Way too many scenarios right now to really plan more than 1 or 2 moves ahead. Its like planning every possible move in a chess match before its even started. Its overwhelming.

The reality is that XU may be impacted by all of this realignment, and yet we have ZERO control. There are a few teams and conferences that actually could make the next "move." Once that happens, all of the subsequent moves and countermoves end up "on the table" and we iterate through the next round. I dont see any situation where XU or the BE will be one of the teams that is "up" to make the next move unless the ACC blows up and jettisons Duke, Wake, BC, Cuse, UofL and Pitt. Or, if UConn is poached by the B12.

I personally dont think UConn to the B12 is a real threat, but rather being used as leverage for the B12 to let potential other targets know that they would move on from them to "plan B" which would be Uconn. this realignment is about FOOTBALL, and UConn is WAAAAY down the pecking order. If the ACC is willing to get rid of DUKE in the interest of Football, then no way does a conference make a BBall move right now.

I'm still betting that we ultimately wind up with 4 16 team super conferences for Football. Perfect Symmetry for a 16 team playoff.

[Xville]

7 schools potentially 8 trying to figure out how to leave the acc. Grab your popcorn

[drudy23]

7 schools potentially 8 trying to figure out how to leave the acc. Grab your popcorn

I've said for a couple years Duke would seem to be a great Big East fit.

[GoMuskies]

I've said for a couple years Duke would seem to be a great Big East fit.

They can just play a home and home and home and home and home and home and home and home with UConn every year in football and call it a conference season.

[drudy23]

They can just play a home and home and home and home and home and home and home and home with UConn every year in football and call it a conference season.

Nobody cares about Duke football. I'm guessing the basketball program supplements them.

It's basketball and country club sports.

That's probably wildly inaccurate on my part, but it seems like it should be right.

[JTG]

Isn't it possible that the ACC has an ultimate showdown like the Big East did, and the football studs and the football duds go their separate ways. Say they have a meeting and decide screw the GOR, we're going our separate ways. I'd guess there is a market for FSU, Clemson, Miami, North Carolina, Pitt, maybe Ga Tech, and of course ND. Duke, Syracuse and BC join the Big East, and Wake and Va Tech who knows.

[xudash]

Way too many scenarios right now to really plan more than 1 or 2 moves ahead. Its like planning every possible move in a chess match before its even started. Its overwhelming.

The reality is that XU may be impacted by all of this realignment, and yet we have ZERO control. There are a few teams and conferences that actually could make the next "move." Once that happens, all of the subsequent moves and countermoves end up "on the table" and we iterate through the next round. I dont see any situation where XU or the BE will be one of the teams that is "up" to make the next move unless the ACC blows up and jettisons Duke, Wake, BC, Cuse, UofL and Pitt. Or, if UConn is poached by the B12.

I personally dont think UConn to the B12 is a real threat, but rather being used as leverage for the B12 to let potential other targets know that they would move on from them to "plan B" which would be Uconn. this realignment is about FOOTBALL, and UConn is WAAAAY down the pecking order. If the ACC is willing to get rid of DUKE in the interest of Football, then no way does a conference make a BBall move right now.

I'm still betting that we ultimately wind up with 4 16 team super conferences for Football. Perfect Symmetry for a 16 team playoff.

I agree with you, regarding UCONN. It’s just that we need to survive the machinations of the summer.

On the football side of things, it goes to show how high the stakes have become in terms of operating a D1 football program.

Otherwise, though it was impossible to envision all of this back when our original Fox agreement was put together, I don’t like the timing for our next media agreement. I just hope that market conditions hold up and that we end up getting a good number from it.

[GoMuskies]

Nobody cares about Duke football.

Agree, which is why barely anyone would even notice if they played UConn eight times per year.

[drudy23]

Agree, which is why barely anyone would even notice if they played UConn eight times per year.

Bring em over. Duke in the Big East would be awesome.

[JTG]

Bring em over. Duke in the Big East would be awesome.

Would it take us 10 years to win at Cameron ?

[UCGRAD4X]

I'll put this here, because the article gets to the heart of what largely matters for our basketball future: conference affiliation and media deal - from an article posted on HLOH by a fellow Xavier fan:

https://www.si.com/college/2023/05/15/college-football-expansion-whats-next-power-5-conferences

IMHO, it's as simple as the Big East having to hold on to UCONN. The Big East wouldn't die if UCONN were to be plucked by the Big 12, but the optics would be bad, and a lot of leverage needed for the next media rights negotiation would be lost.

Did you ever think that we would be in a position of maybe having to root for the demise of the PAC 10? If the Big 12 successfully pulls away the Arizona schools, Utah and Colorado, then its belly should be full enough and we won't have to worry about it. If the PAC 10 survives this round - by grabbing SDSU and SMU - then the aggressive Big 12 heat lamp will look elsewhere.

Nothing is easy or automatic for them.

It isn't a forgone conclusion that UCONN will leave the BE - again.

Buckle up, friends. Xavier and the Big East are on the verge of entering into an even better situation on the media rights end if things hold together. How much it goes up will partially be a function of market conditions (media and economy) when Val cranks up the dialogue, but we should still be better off than $4mm per year.

It's going to be an interesting summer.

p.s. Being the Athletic Director at Boston College, Wake Forest and Syracuse, in particular, is an Alka-Seltzer job at this point.

I would expect that any media deal would have provisions for teams such as UCONN leaving.

[Uncle Joe]

Just for conversation sake, if we were to lose UConn, at that point, would it then make sense to pursue Gonzaga to keep the BE together/a better product for TV contract purposes?

[Seven Eighths]

The Big 12 is hardly on stable ground. I don’t see UCONN leaving to join a conference that might fold in 5-10 years.

[X-band '01]

Would it take us 10 years to win at Cameron ?

Fortunately it didn't take Xavier as long to win at Gampel Pavilion.

[XUGRAD80]

The Big 12 is hardly on stable ground. I don’t see UCONN leaving to join a conference that might fold in 5-10 years.

Huh? Care to expand on that a little bit? With some links or something to back that up? That’s the 1st time I’ve heard anything along that line.

Or did you mean the PAC 10?

[GoMuskies]

I don't think the immediate existence of the Big XII is in question. Just the long-term viability in that it's becoming the land of misfit toys to which "power 5" programs that the Big Ten and SEC don't want are exiled.

[Masterofreality]

Just for conversation sake, if we were to lose UConn, at that point, would it then make sense to pursue Gonzaga to keep the BE together/a better product for TV contract purposes?

If what happens is UConn goes Big 12 and the ACC is on life support, I could see Boston College much easier than Gonzaga.
The geography just doesn’t work. BC does.
Or even better, Notre Dame! They have their football independence back

[Seven Eighths]

Huh? Care to expand on that a little bit? With some links or something to back that up? That’s the 1st time I’ve heard anything along that line.

Or did you mean the PAC 10?

Hardly anyone wants to be in the New B12. It’s like the old BE football conference. Everyone is trying to get into the B10 and SEC.

If the B12 is a threat to either true big time conference for football (really just two) one or both will take one or two from the B12 and it becomes the AAC 2.0.

[XUGRAD80]

Hardly anyone wants to be in the New B12. It’s like the old BE football conference. Everyone is trying to get into the B10 and SEC.

If the B12 is a threat to either true big time conference for football (really just two) one or both will take one or two from the B12 and it becomes the AAC 2.0.


Everyone may WANT to get into the B10 and SEC, but EVERYONE isn’t going to. That doesn’t mean that any of those other conferences are going to fold.

[Seven Eighths]

[QUOTE=XUGRAD80;762912]Everyone may WANT to get into the B10 and SEC, but EVERYONE isn’t going to. That doesn’t mean that any of those other conferences are going to fold.[/QUOTE

It’s all speculation.

The B12 is hardly on solid ground though.

[XUGRAD80]

Everyone may WANT to get into the B10 and SEC, but EVERYONE isn’t going to. That doesn’t mean that any of those other conferences are going to fold.

It’s all speculation.

The B12 is hardly on solid ground though.

Oh so now they aren’t going to fold, but they aren’t on “solid ground”? What’s the difference?

[Seven Eighths]

Never said they are going to fold. Do you know what “might” means?

[XUBison]

Oh so now they aren’t going to fold, but they aren’t on “solid ground”? What’s the difference?

I don’t care about UC football, at all. That said, the B12 may not have any Marquis names once Oklahoma and Texas leave, but it is still going to be a damn good football league from top to bottom. Even Kansas showed a pulse last season.

[STL_XUfan]

My view is simple, I don’t want anyone in the conference who is looking to leave. No reason to add any school who would prefer to chase football. If UConn leaves, stay at 10 or add a basketball only school.

[XUGRAD80]

My view is simple, I don’t want anyone in the conference who is looking to leave. No reason to add any school who would prefer to chase football. If UConn leaves, stay at 10 or add a basketball only school.

Agreed.

But, UConn isn’t chasing football. They are chasing football MONEY.

[JTG]

I don’t care about UC football, at all. That said, the B12 may not have any Marquis names once Oklahoma and Texas leave, but it is still going to be a damn good football league from top to bottom. Even Kansas showed a pulse last season.

Maybe it's good football, but it's also Who Cares? Football. I'm pretty sure no one ever says " Hey my buddies and I are getting together Saturday, grilling and drinking beer for the Kansas v Iowa State game" It's No one cares football for most of the country. Just like PAC10 will be who cares football for most of us without SC & UCLA.

[XUBison]

Maybe it's good football, but it's also Who Cares? Football. I'm pretty sure no one ever says " Hey my buddies and I are getting together Saturday, grilling and drinking beer for the Kansas v Iowa State game" It's No one cares football for most of the country. Just like PAC10 will be who cares football for most of us without SC & UCLA.

You and your buddies get together to watch UCLA football games? Maybe those epic battles between Miss St and Vandy or Minnesota vs Rutgers, but UCLA?

[Xville]

You and your buddies get together to watch UCLA football games? Maybe those epic battles between Miss St and Vandy or Minnesota vs Rutgers, but UCLA?

Ok, but when Texas and Oklahoma is gone, what marquee game is most of the country going to tune into? The sec has at least one if not two a week and when Texas and Oklahoma move over, there will be two or three a week. Same with big ten. There won’t be one team in the big 12 that draws most of the nation in. I don’t know who the big 12 commissioner is, but they did a hell of a job to get the new tv deal they did. That gal or girl deserves a huge raise.

[muskiefan82]

I wonder if the Big 10 and SEC will have unwritten "no one schedules a Pac-12 or Big 12 team in the non-con" rule to further remove them from the picture. They could schedule games between the B10 and SEC or even the ACC, but exclude the other two conferences just because.

[Masterofreality]

All this ACC implosion stuff is smoke.
Settle down & enjoy the summer.
I have lots of problems with Huggins/Cronin/Clifton shill DeCoursey, but he is correct here.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-football/news/acc-schools-daydream-leaving-league-theres-nowhere-go/bqmqmtetavufifyrpk3zaadc

[paulxu]

It's interesting reading many of these comments. When I left Chattanooga for Xavier, I had Xavier football to follow (for a few years anyway). But the South didn't have professional football until 1965, and only one professional baseball team until the early '90's.
Consequently, college football was it. It is to that area as our Xavier basketball is to us.
So yes, there are people (thousands and thousands) who tailgate, drink beer and religiously follow college football...especially in the South.
I know Ohio St and Michigan also are big on their football...but down here it's a religion. I wouldn't see that changing anytime soon.
And the dollars spent by the networks only support that idea.

[paulxu]

And on another front, this guy is a FSU backer. But if Louisville joined the "Magnificent Seven", can 8 school vote to cancel the ACC grant of rights?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658494618458116096

[Xville]

And on another front, this guy is a FSU backer. But if Louisville joined the "Magnificent Seven", can 8 school vote to cancel the ACC grant of rights?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658494618458116096

Dunno if Louisville is involved but that guy is a moron who doesn’t have any contacts whatsoever. He was the same one who years ago “confirmed” that Louisville was heading to the big 12.

[XUGRAD80]

It's interesting reading many of these comments. When I left Chattanooga for Xavier, I had Xavier football to follow (for a few years anyway). But the South didn't have professional football until 1965, and only one professional baseball team until the early '90's.
Consequently, college football was it. It is to that area as our Xavier basketball is to us.
So yes, there are people (thousands and thousands) who tailgate, drink beer and religiously follow college football...especially in the South.
I know Ohio St and Michigan also are big on their football...but down here it's a religion. I wouldn't see that changing anytime soon.
And the dollars spent by the networks only support that idea.

The same thing can be said for many other areas of the country. Millions of people watch THEIR teams every Saturday in the fall, either in person or on TV, and they don’t have to be national powers or fighting for national championships either. The reason that the SEC and B10 can get the dollars they can for their TV rights is because they do have more than 1 or 2 teams that regularly are fighting for national championships. Games between those school can garner national audiences. But that doesn’t mean that they are the ONLY market. It doesn’t mean that there aren’t people watching the Kansas St-Kansas game, or the Washington-Oregon game, or Duke-NCST. They might not have huge national interest, but they will still have regional interest.

Let’s say the ACC does break up, what then? The SEC won’t take ALL of them. What happens to the schools it doesn’t take? Same is true for the PAC and could even be true for the B12. Eventually there probably will somewhere between 2-4 SUPER conferences. But the schools that don’t make it into those super conferences aren’t going to just give up playing football. They are going to either remain in the conferences they are already in, or they are going to form new ones. The TV rights for those regional conferences are still going to have value.

[xu82]

It's interesting reading many of these comments. When I left Chattanooga for Xavier, I had Xavier football to follow (for a few years anyway). But the South didn't have professional football until 1965, and only one professional baseball team until the early '90's.
Consequently, college football was it. It is to that area as our Xavier basketball is to us.
So yes, there are people (thousands and thousands) who tailgate, drink beer and religiously follow college football...especially in the South.
I know Ohio St and Michigan also are big on their football...but down here it's a religion. I wouldn't see that changing anytime soon.
And the dollars spent by the networks only support that idea.

I 100% agree, it’s just different in the south. Yes, OSU and Michigan have huge and loyal followings, but college football in the south was kind of eye opening to me. Let’s face it, there are only 3-5 teams you might expect to win the national championship every year, and in the recent past most of them are in the south. In Atlanta, you can forget UGA and Alabama if you want, and college football is STILL bigger than the Falcons. Georgia Tech, Auburn and others seem to dominant the license plate holders, flags and hats. I’ve lived (and traveled) all over the east, and college football is the absolute KING.

I know other regions love their CFB, but not like the south where is it as much religion as sport.

[MHettel]

I 100% agree, it’s just different in the south. Yes, OSU and Michigan have huge and loyal followings, but college football in the south was kind of eye opening to me. Let’s face it, there are only 3-5 teams you might expect to win the national championship every year, and in the recent past most of them are in the south. In Atlanta, you can forget UGA and Alabama if you want, and college football is STILL bigger than the Falcons. Georgia Tech, Auburn and others seem to dominant the license plate holders, flags and hats. I’ve lived (and traveled) all over the east, and college football is the absolute KING.

I know other regions love their CFB, but not like the south where is it as much religion as sport.

I think 6 DIFFERENT teams from the SEC have won Nat'l Champs in the last 20 or so years (Tenn, FLA, UGA, Bama, Auburn, LSU). I think there was one point where 4 different SEC teams won over a 4 year period.

College Football is DIFFERENT in the South

[JTG]

I 100% agree, it’s just different in the south. Yes, OSU and Michigan have huge and loyal followings, but college football in the south was kind of eye opening to me. Let’s face it, there are only 3-5 teams you might expect to win the national championship every year, and in the recent past most of them are in the south. In Atlanta, you can forget UGA and Alabama if you want, and college football is STILL bigger than the Falcons. Georgia Tech, Auburn and others seem to dominant the license plate holders, flags and hats. I’ve lived (and traveled) all over the east, and college football is the absolute KING.

I know other regions love their CFB, but not like the south where is it as much religion as sport.

What you say explains why the SEC has the media deals they have, but I still contend the audience for many of those BigXII Cow College contests is much, much smaller. And the BIG's draw is OSU & Mich and the bazillion alumni that all the other schools have all over the country.

[paulxu]

I don't even think all this would be on the table if they had just gone to 4/16 team conferences just a short while ago.
Would have solved a lot of this stuff.

[XUGRAD80]

What you say explains why the SEC has the media deals they have, but I still contend the audience for many of those BigXII Cow College contests is much, much smaller. And the BIG's draw is OSU & Mich and the bazillion alumni that all the other schools have all over the country.

Maybe time to look at the numbers? Big12 Average home football attendance over the last 5 years:

Baylor 45,463
Iowa St 57,344
Kansas 43,076
Kansas St 51,165
Okl State 54,735
TCU 46.562
Tx Tech 56,870
WVU 47,678


(I purposefully left off Texas and Oklahoma because they won't be in the league any longer, but they averaged 100K and 83K respectfully.)

The B12 average is 50,237 per game. If you figure 6 home games that is a season attendance of 301,142 per school. To put that in perspective, if X sells out the Cintas Center for every home game, they will get 174,250 w/17 home games. Another way to look at it is that with those 8 schools alone, 2.4 million people will attend in person a B12 game every season. Thats just the home game attendance too. How many more millions of people will watch a game on TV?

Now the top schools in the SEC and B10 average much larger crowds, with the top 13 nationally and most of the top 25 coming from those 2 conferences, I'm in no way saying that the B12 is in the same league attendance wise as those 2 conferences. But to dismiss the schools that make up the B12 as being low drawing schools is ridiculous. They aren't on a par with the top 2, but that doesn't mean that nobody is watching. It's still some huge numbers.

[XUBison]

Maybe time to look at the numbers? Big12 Average home football attendance over the last 5 years:

Baylor 45,463
Iowa St 57,344
Kansas 43,076
Kansas St 51,165
Okl State 54,735
TCU 46.562
Tx Tech 56,870
WVU 47,678


(I purposefully left off Texas and Oklahoma because they won't be in the league any longer, but they averaged 100K and 83K respectfully.)

The B12 average is 50,237 per game. If you figure 6 home games that is a season attendance of 301,142 per school. To put that in perspective, if X sells out the Cintas Center for every home game, they will get 174,250 w/17 home games. Another way to look at it is that with those 8 schools alone, 1.8 million people will attend in person a B12 game every season. Thats just the home game attendance too. How many more millions of people will watch a game on TV?

Now the top schools in the SEC and B10 average much larger crowds, with the top 13 nationally and most of the top 25 coming from those 2 conferences, I'm in no way saying that the B12 is in the same league attendance wise as those 2 conferences. But to dismiss the schools that make up the B12 as being low drawing schools is ridiculous. They aren't on a par with the top 2, but that doesn't mean that nobody is watching. It's still some huge numbers.

This is exactly right. The B12 schools come from thinner population centers, but most have large alumni bases and diehard fans. Geography and alumni aside this new version of B12 football reminds me a lot of the Big East we joined— a bunch of good programs with something to prove.

[xudash]

I swear, I can be at that bar in about 50 minutes. I'm thinking of going up to Amelia Island for some free entertainment this afternoon:

https://twitter.com/BadBoyOfScoops/status/1658277631773515778?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1658277631773515778%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

As long as Xavier and the Big East don't get burned in all this, it's time to really crank up the popcorn machine and watch some of this conference realignment intrigue come back to bite some people who clearly need bitten.

Some follow up tweets are saying it didn't happen, but the comments are enjoyable. And whether it happened or not, there can be no doubt that it isn't all walks along the beach and top shelf margaritas at that wonderful place right now.

BTW, this guy's observation had never occurred to me before:

NC has 4 schools in the P5, compared to California which has 4 as well with 4x the population. FL has 3 (today) with more than 2x NC’s population. Conferences spreading their money to pay for some of these inequities.

[xu82]

I think 6 DIFFERENT teams from the SEC have won Nat'l Champs in the last 20 or so years (Tenn, FLA, UGA, Bama, Auburn, LSU). I think there was one point where 4 different SEC teams won over a 4 year period.

College Football is DIFFERENT in the South

FSU won it when my son was there, and he’s only 30, so throw that in there too.

[XUGRAD80]

FSU won it when my son was there, and he’s only 30, so throw that in there too.


Clemson (South Carolina) has at least one during that period too.

When I moved to Tennessee for awhile, the 1st thing the mailman asked me wasn’t where I was from, or what church I attended, it was what college football team did I root for. Nobody ever asked me if I was any kind of college BB fan.

[xudash]

Remember when Florida won back-to-back NC's in basketball under Billy Donovan?

My Gator friends were discussing the spring football game and how much they missed Spurrier at the helm.

[X-band '01]

I swear, I can be at that bar in about 50 minutes. I'm thinking of going up to Amelia Island for some free entertainment this afternoon:

https://twitter.com/BadBoyOfScoops/status/1658277631773515778?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1658277631773515778%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

As long as Xavier and the Big East don't get burned in all this, it's time to really crank up the popcorn machine and watch some of this conference realignment intrigue come back to bite some people who clearly need bitten.

Some follow up tweets are saying it didn't happen, but the comments are enjoyable. And whether it happened or not, there can be no doubt that it isn't all walks along the beach and top shelf margaritas at that wonderful place right now.

BTW, this guy's observation had never occurred to me before:

NC has 4 schools in the P5, compared to California which has 4 as well with 4x the population. FL has 3 (today) with more than 2x NC’s population. Conferences spreading their money to pay for some of these inequities.

UC-Berkeley is a program that deserves to be demoted from a Power-5 program if the Pac-12 does implode.

But given the attention that's paid to athletics over there, they should be demoted anyway.

[xudash]

https://syracusefan.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedi a%2FFwWK_CzXgAALHOm%3Fformat%3Djpg%26name%3Dsmall&hash=8e27f61b71f79c29088acdbdab3f1678

I need a lesson in uploading images. That is from a Syracuse site.

[paulxu]

What's it a picture of?

[MHettel]

FSU won it when my son was there, and he’s only 30, so throw that in there too.

SEC only. FSU is in the ACC. If you go ACC, then throw Miami and Clemson in the mix....

[xukeith]

What's it a picture of?

A red X.

[xudash]

What's it a picture of?

Is it not loading for you?

[XUGRAD80]

SEC only. FSU is in the ACC. If you go ACC, then throw Miami and Clemson in the mix....

They’re all “southern”. SEC or ACC, it’s just different in the south. And I mean that in a good way.

[paulxu]

Just the small icon with Red X.
I went to Syracuse site and maybe you were trying to load the Venn diagram map of college logos?
I couldn't bring it over to load here either, or find the original site it was posted from.

[xudash]

Just the small icon with Red X.
I went to Syracuse site and maybe you were trying to load the Venn diagram map of college logos?
I couldn't bring it over to load here either, or find the original site it was posted from.

Yep, that's it exactly, Paul.

It's an interesting diagram. I thought it was worth sharing.

It can be interesting, visiting some of these "lessor" ACC fan message board sites. Many of them get that they're not exactly sitting pretty right now.

[sirthought]

I think some of you guys are really selling the Big 12 short in this race for media attention and success on the field. I'm solely talking about perceived media value.

1) Football-wise, the two teams lost to the SEC aren't going to be greatly missed within two years. Legends in their own minds, especially now that they'll fold into a more competitive SEC. Meanwhile, other Big 12 football programs performed really well this past year, and things are looking up for several others. Talk trash about them if you want. These schools have large student and alumni populations, and the fresh opportunities to win the conference will reinvigorate all attention. These might not be the biggest games of the week, but they will draw a very sizable audience, recruiting will pick up, and media spin will do its thing.

2) Big 12 schools have arguably the top basketball conference. Clearly within the top three most seasons. This, combined with football, gives them a big advantage when looking for new media opportunities. And that's an advantage when recruiting new members. I have no clue who will jump their way or not. But I can say that whoever does, it will make them stronger and put pressure in this arms race.

3) Big 12 has lots of other sports that perform pretty well on the field. ESPN is developing more college and women's sports programming. Alternatively, streaming networks are looking for content to make them a larger destination for sports fans. You could see BIG 12 really going either way and becoming a huge focus on their push to gain eyeballs.

Compare that to a conference like Big East. They are also within the top three hoops conferences most seasons. Despite winning the national champ, it won't move the ratings needle on a network or streamer gaining that many more eyeballs. DePaul, Georgetown, and St. Johns really need to get their act together for their media markets to start to gain a pulse and move the numbers.

[Seven Eighths]

1. Losing Texas and OU is a huge, huge, huge blow.

2. Basketball is inconsequential compared to football.

3. See #2.

[XUGRAD80]

1. Losing Texas and OU is a huge, huge, huge blow.

2. Basketball is inconsequential compared to football.

3. See #2.

I’m not saying it’s not…..but please explain WHY it’s such a “huge huge blow.” In what way(s)? I’m interested in your reasoning.

#2 is absolutely correct. FOOTBALL (money) is what is at the bottom of all this college conference shuffling. BB is a very very distant 2nd.

[xavierj]

I’m not saying it’s not…..but please explain WHY it’s such a “huge huge blow.” In what way(s)? I’m interested in your reasoning.

#2 is absolutely correct. FOOTBALL (money) is what is at the bottom of all this college conference shuffling. BB is a very very distant 2nd.

Because #2. Texas and Oklahoma were the bell cow for Big12 football. The football product is lessened and this is all about football. There are now only 2 football power conferences, the Big 10 and the SEC and then everyone else. I guess you could make a case that the ACC is the third best conference. For example, the top 20 recruiting classes for football have one future Big 12 team, TCU at # 20. 14 of the top 20 classes are SEC 10, Big 10 3, the ACC 3, PAC 12 2, BIG 12 1, and ND is in there as well. The future SEC has 10 of the top 20, including the top 4 classes. Texas has the third rated class and Oklahoma the 4th.

[JTG]

I’m not saying it’s not…..but please explain WHY it’s such a “huge huge blow.” In what way(s)? I’m interested in your reasoning.

#2 is absolutely correct. FOOTBALL (money) is what is at the bottom of all this college conference shuffling. BB is a very very distant 2nd.

Texas and Oklahoma have been National brands since the 50s. Bud Wilkinson @ OK. Ok had a 40+ game winning streak at one time. OK & Nebraska playing for the Natty in 1971. Tx & ND playing bowl games with Nattys at stake. Tx winning the Natty in the 70s and again in the 2000s v. USC. It's pretty much just like USC & UCLA bailing on the PAC12. The BIG XII has now lost it's only 3 marquee schools Nebraska, OU & Texas. Will Alums and fans of the remaining schools go to their games and watch their games, Yes. Will people in the East, SEC, and BIG watch BIGXII games, I doubt it. And adding UCONN will not get football eyeballs either. The BIGXII's best bet is to take some of the PAC12 leftovers and have a western US based audience.

[Seven Eighths]

Because #2. Texas and Oklahoma were the bell cow for Big12 football. The football product is lessened and this is all about football. There are now only 2 football power conferences, the Big 10 and the SEC and then everyone else. I guess you could make a case that the ACC is the third best conference. For example, the top 20 recruiting classes for football have one future Big 12 team, TCU at # 20. 14 of the top 20 classes are SEC 10, Big 10 3, the ACC 3, PAC 12 2, BIG 12 1, and ND is in there as well. The future SEC has 10 of the top 20, including the top 4 classes. Texas has the third rated class and Oklahoma the 4th.

Exactly.

Before OU and Texas left, the Big 12 had no interest in adding mid major football programs but were then forced to. If you add a bunch of AAC teams to a conference, when does the conference cease to be the B12 and become the AAC 2.0.

[GoMuskies]

For the old Big East, it was the moment they added Tulane. That was the proverbial straw.

[xudash]

Exactly.

Before OU and Texas left, the Big 12 had no interest in adding mid major football programs but were then forced to. If you add a bunch of AAC teams to a conference, when does the conference cease to be the B12 and become the AAC 2.0.

Exactly. How soon we forget.

I have mentioned this before, but it truly is a matter of perception. The “new“ Big 12 is a godsend to UC. It is a conference that went into reverse for the schools left behind by Texas and Oklahoma. They will receive enough media money to stay in the game, so to speak.

Things will look normal on television for a while: full stadiums, passionate fanbases, etc. The 12 – team playoff will improve or maintain the optics. But my guess is that you will end up with things like Georgia boat racing teams like TCU when it gets down to rug cutting time.

WE can’t get to the new BE media agreement soon enough.

[X-band '01]

For the old Big East, it was the moment they added Tulane. That was the proverbial straw.

TCU and San Diego State (football only) were also tipping-point teams for the OG Big East.

[MHettel]

I’m a casual college football fan. I know which teams are good each year and I’ve heard of a few players. But I probably watch abou half a game a week, total.

And the reality is, if I’m flipping through the channels, I wouldnt stop and check in with a game featuring OU or Texas. And wouldn’t give a second thought to any other B12 teams. That’s the reality, and that’s why those losses will hurt so bad.

And, it doesn’t matter if the local fans are rabin and the stadiums are full. The ONLY thing that matters is if there is enough national interest to have people tune in on the TV. That’s the main source of money. That’s WHY you join a conference.

The future version of the B12 can fake it for awhile. Until a team goes 10-1 and the. Loses by 50 to and SEC team in a BCS game. Going q
10-1 or 11-0 in the B12 just won’t mean much.

If they expand by grabbing a couple mediocre PAC 12 or similar teams it won’t matter one bit. It used to be the “Big 6”. Then the BE exploded and continued consolidation turned that into the Big 5. Going forward it’s the Big 2, and then 3 wanna-be conferences.

Honestly, if you made an all star conference out of the PAC 12, ACC, and B12 you’d maybe pull together a legit contender….

UW, Oregon, Utah, Clemson, Miami, FSU, KSU…..others?

[XUGRAD80]

There are very few “national” games broadcast every Saturday. Generally one at night on NBC and/or FOX, and maybe one during the afternoon. The rest of the games are regionally broadcast. You’ll find them on ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, ESPN ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPNews, Bally Sports, FS1, FS2, the BIG10 network, and lord knows who else. The point being that there is absolutely no time during the season when being a game that is of national interest is a prerequisite for a game to be broadcast. There are generally only 1 or 2 games a week that will have a total national interest. Yet dozens of games are broadcast, several are event broadcast during the week, at night. In addition, even more games are shown during the week days, as a replay. Heck, they are even showing games on ESPNU right now that were played LAST year, and are even showing SPRING games. Being a “national” power is nice, but it’s not a prerequisite for generating interest and ratings. There are far more diehard college FOOTBALL fans than there are college BB fans. Virtually every D1 conference has some kind of TV package, even if it’s only a regional package. And in addition to regular TV broadcasting, there is STREAMING by the various networks too. The BIG12 is going to be just fine, and college football is going to be just fine. Interest has never been higher and the networks are going to continue to compete for college football content to broadcast.

[XUGRAD80]

I’m a casual college football fan. I know which teams are good each year and I’ve heard of a few players. But I probably watch abou half a game a week, total.

And the reality is, if I’m flipping through the channels, I wouldnt stop and check in with a game featuring OU or Texas. And wouldn’t give a second thought to any other B12 teams. That’s the reality, and that’s why those losses will hurt so bad.



As a “casual” college FB fan, you are the exception and not the rule. There are millions and millions and millions of diehard college football fans. By a diehard fan, I mean the kind of fan that roots for his own team (maybe is a season ticket holder) and still enjoys watching other teams play. And not just during the season, but year round.

[UCGRAD4X]

If a B12 team goes undefeated and loses big to an SEC or B1G, its name will still have been on all the broadcasts and sports news increasingly toward the end of the season, even if briefly to begin with and eventually a lot. No one will be surprised when they get hammered but they will remember the little engine that couldn't. People like to root for the underdog, especially against the hated Alabamas and Ohio States of the world. They will get to say that they played in the show. And who knows...

[xu82]

As a “casual” college FB fan, you are the exception and not the rule. There are millions and millions and millions of diehard college football fans. By a diehard fan, I mean the kind of fan that roots for his own team (maybe is a season ticket holder) and still enjoys watching other teams play. And not just during the season, but year round.

Living in Sarasota, FL or Atlanta, GA I can take you to bars where hundreds of fans show up to watch OSU football every weekend. And this is in the south, where you’d think most fans already have “their team”. I’ve seen the same thing in Nashville with huge crowds following Michigan State, of all teams. College football crowds are huge, and they are everywhere.

[XUGRAD80]

Living in Sarasota, FL or Atlanta, GA I can take you to bars where hundreds of fans show up to watch OSU football every weekend. And this is in the south, where you’d think most fans already have “their team”. I’ve seen the same thing in Nashville with huge crowds following Michigan State, of all teams. College football crowds are huge, and they are everywhere.

And the same thing is happening in cites throughout B12 country and on the west coast.

FOOTBALL is the most popular sport in America, by far. And it’s pretty much an even split between college and pro, with HS right behind.

The loss of Oklahoma and Texas will have some effect on what kind of money the B12 can get for its broadcast rights, but it’s certainly not a complete catastrophe like some are making it out to be. There are still going to be millions of eyes that will be tuning in to watch B12 teams compete on the gridiron come the fall.

[paulxu]

Living in Sarasota, FL or Atlanta, GA I can take you to bars where hundreds of fans show up to watch OSU football every weekend. And this is in the south, where you’d think most fans already have “their team”. I’ve seen the same thing in Nashville with huge crowds following Michigan State, of all teams. College football crowds are huge, and they are everywhere.

No one retires to the North.

[94GRAD]

My wife is PSU grad. The local Alumni chapter has 600 members with about 100 active and 50 really active. There is a football watch party every week at Oakley Pub and Grill where normally 30-40 come to watch.

[Masterofreality]

No one retires to the North.

No. They retire to states that are governed by common sense, have lower taxes and promote freedom.
States like South Carolina. Hmmmm.

[xukeith]

My wife is PSU grad. The local Alumni chapter has 600 members with about 100 active and 50 really active. There is a football watch party every week at Oakley Pub and Grill where normally 30-40 come to watch.

During football season I assume.

[Xville]

No. They retire to states that are governed by common sense, have lower taxes and promote freedom.
States like South Carolina. Hmmmm.

Oh dear god shut up. People retire to places where it’s warm, has little to do with who governs it. Arizona gets a shit on retirees and is governed by nut job Hobbs. Charleston, sc is run by a democratic mayor and is one of the most desirable places to live in the us.

[sirthought]

I'm not saying football doesn't move the numbers, but there are 52 weeks in the year and football doesn't fill most of those. A lot of networks are going to be after bigger schools with lots of sports to try to attract alumni eyeballs.

AND...if you have one of the best hoops conferences, along with decent football programs, you are going to command a lot of media attention. Networks have inventory to fill and not all of it is football. Things are going to be looking up for the Big 12 in more ways than one. That's not to say that SEC and BIG 10 won't be bigger for now.

But I bet ACC schools are really looking around at options right now, and Pac 10 schools certainly are.

Big East is screwed in comparison, but hey, they will get a raise and for a school the size of tiny Xavier, Butler, or Villanova, that money is useful.

[94GRAD]

During football season I assume.

Correct

[xudash]

Spending freezes at Washington State: Washington State president Kirk Schulz on Monday issued a variety of spending freezes in the wake of the Pac-12's financial crisis.

Rumors flying that Colorado is returning to the Big 12.

The New York Post reported that ESPN and the Pac-12 are having “no substantive talks” about extending the league’s television contract, which expires in summer 2024.

This may be the end of the PAC 12/Whatever.

I have to see this as a disaster for UCONN and a giant sigh of relief for the Big East and Xavier, not that the threat was substantial that UCONN was going to get called up or anything. Nonetheless, UCONN gets fully boxed out of any Big 12 discussion if Yormark leans towards the West for his additions.

Xavier is about to embark on the most dramatic expansion in its history, and our athletic flank continues to hold well. For the nth time, the next media agreement for the Big East WILL BE HUGE.

[xukeith]

Spending freezes at Washington State: Washington State president Kirk Schulz on Monday issued a variety of spending freezes in the wake of the Pac-12's financial crisis.

Rumors flying that Colorado is returning to the Big 12.

The New York Post reported that ESPN and the Pac-12 are having “no substantive talks” about extending the league’s television contract, which expires in summer 2024.

This may be the end of the PAC 12/Whatever.

I have to see this as a disaster for UCONN and a giant sigh of relief for the Big East and Xavier, not that the threat was substantial that UCONN was going to get called up or anything. Nonetheless, UCONN gets fully boxed out of any Big 12 discussion if Yormark leans towards the West for his additions.

Xavier is about to embark on the most dramatic expansion in its history, and our athletic flank continues to hold well. For the nth time, the next media agreement for the Big East WILL BE HUGE.

Will this next media agreement be made in 2024 or 2025?

[xudash]

Will this next media agreement be made in 2024 or 2025?

https://barrettsportsmedia.com/2023/03/09/big-east-deal-with-fox/#:~:text=The%20deal%20is%20expected%20to%20close,i n%20the%20second%20half%20of%202023.

We should (hopefully) know where this is headed in the "coming" months.

[xudash]

As we head into the summer dead season for college hoops, think back to the amount of frustration we all used to experience with Linda Bruno and the A10. The A10 was poorly constructed (e.g. 3 schools in one city) and poorly managed (e.g. the stronger Presidents should have been more vocal about minimum investment standards on the part of certain programs (LaSalle, Fordham)). They simply allowed the deadwood to hang along for the ride.

Now enjoy this: https://www.bigeast.com/news/2023/5/26/general-big-east-concludes-spring-meetings.aspx

And when we get around to the next media agreement, this gent most likely will be instrumental in bringing us good news: https://www.foxsports.com/presspass/?fmc_on_air_personas_tax=larry-jones#:~:text=Lawrence%20%28Larry%29%20A.%20Jones% 2C%20Executive%20Vice%20President%2C%20FOX,rights% 20negotiations%2C%20administration%2C%20and%20faci lity%20and%20operations%20management.

I just don't believe that Yormark can put together a mutually beneficial package involving UCONN and the Big 12 right now. I also can't imagine the Magnificent Seven will find a way to blow up the ACC's GOR just yet.

At the very least, we have a strong leadership group navigating us through these interesting times. They deserved a little spa time at the Ponte Vedra Inn and Club.

[paulxu]

From that first link from Dash:


The regular season culminated with sellouts in all five sessions of the BIG EAST Tournament at Madison Square Garden, the Tournament’s home since 1983.

NICE !

[xudash]

Trilly Donovan
@trillydonovan
·
31m
Not really into the realignment scoops, but a lot of chatter this morning about UConn leaving the Big East.

Feels like a mistake, imo.

Copied from HLOH

[GoMuskies]

You'd think UConn "magically" winning the natty a few years after returning to the Big East would be a meaningful data point for their decision makers. But apparently not.

It will be hilarious when their basketball program flounders again (along with their atrocious football program).

[paulxu]

I'd hope there was a big buy out to leave for UConn if they are thinking of going...and all their units stay with the conference.

[sirthought]

My gut says UCONN stays. Karma will be a motivator.

But even though UCONN has many positives, it won't be a huge loss if the Big 12 doesn't get them. All that time and travel expense could be a real issue to Big 12 schools already up to their armpits in that expense.

[xudash]

I'd hope there was a big buy out to leave for UConn if they are thinking of going...and all their units stay with the conference.

$30 million if they leave within the first 6 years of returning, so the buyout is $30 million. I seriously doubt they will be allowed to negotiate that down, including any offer by them to guaranty scheduling with existing Big East teams moving forward. In fact, that is the ONE thing the Big East will probably really light up - any such scheduling agreements would only benefit UCONN at that point. They will be positioned to die on the vine in New England.

All their NCAAT Units will absolutely stay with the Big East.

I understand their massive need to grab cash. But going to the Big 12 strikes me as being a Bridge Too Far. Their athletic department already is bleeding from football. $30mm out the door, albeit on an amortizing basis most likely is still going to sting badly (e.g. $5mm per year for 6 years or vice versa or $10mm over three years). Hell, if I'm Val and company, I would view UCONN as a shaky Accounts Receivable.

On the flip side, they will not receive a full share going into the Big 12 and they're going to have to pay an entry fee to get into it. Then it's tailgate city before going into the stadium to watch ... Iowa State, etc.

[paulxu]

Thanks Dash. Maybe there are some crazy deep pocket alums that love UConn football.
Or...maybe they think the P5 will leave the NCAA and they want to get on board.
They're certainly a good fit for basketball in our conference.

[xudash]

Thanks Dash. Maybe there are some crazy deep pocket alums that love UConn football.
Or...maybe they think the P5 will leave the NCAA and they want to get on board.
They're certainly a good fit for basketball in our conference.

Paul, two things come to mind when it comes to the notion of the "P5" leaving the NCAA:

1. There no longer is a "P5" - it's the B1G and the SEC and everyone else, with 3 conferences vying for some form of relevant survival; and

2. IMHO, the NCAAT, as it exists, is virtually untouchable. Why? Because it already is optimized from a monetary standpoint, based on its inclusivity. Were the powerful football schools to break off, then they would kill the numerator, even though they would be successful in shrinking the denominator. The power conferences already have Selection Sunday set up to benefit them at the expense of mid-major and low-major conferences:

https://www.fanduel.com/theduel/posts/march-madness-records-by-conference-2023-ncaa-tournament-01gvk4sfcy87

Purdue fans, as one example, may still sting from having been taken out so early, but the conference still collected 8 slots and a handsome pile of NCAAT Units. Overall, the so called "P5" collected 32 spots in this past year's tournament - they almost soaked up 50% of the bracket. That is a handsome take, given the size of the numerator.

Were 60 to 65 football schools to break away and form their own basketball tournament, do they cut the tournament to, say 36 schools? 65 going to 12 slots for a football championship. 65 going to 65 for a basketball championship? Uhm, no. So, you already have 32 programs participating in THE EVENT with its massive payouts. Who wants to "net up to" 36 participants in a tournament that has a badly wounded media payout? Who wants to create such ill will across the nation, given how much they've already created with what they've done with their flagship sport?

I just can't see CBS and its broadcast partners liking the idea of dismantling the premier spring sporting event. Frankly, notwithstanding the risk of the power schools playing the role of Goliath to some small school's David over the course of the first weekend - primarily - I have to imagine that most of the AD's of the power football schools enjoy the tournament as it exists. National excitement with multiple tournament sites is a real thing. They would only hurt themselves if they water that down.

[XUGRAD80]

The basketball NCAA tournament is such a small component of realignment that it barely deserves mentioning. Realignment is about 2 things……football and TV NETWORK MONEY…..and who gets it and who controls it. That is, which conferences and which teams within those conferences.

The BB tournament is not controlled by any conference, their TV partners, or by any schools. The “NCAA” BB tournament is a totally separate entity from the TV contracts that these conferences are signing. Sure, the tourney participants get money from the tourney, as do many conferences. But often they are NOT a real money maker for many of the schools participating. IF the major football conferences wanted to break away, they could easily supplant the current NCAA tournament with one of their own, and it would still gain huge viewership. The NCAA tourney would become a second tier tournament, made up mainly of mid-major and smaller schools, and with limited viewership. Kind of like the current NIT (which at one time was THE tournament to be in and the NCAA was 2nd fiddle).

If that happens….does the new super conferences tournament include the BE? Or does the BE end up in the lower tier tournament? I’m sure that UConn is taking this into consideration when deciding what to do. I’m sure that Gonzaga is too. Certainly not their only concern, but I think that it has to be something they are thinking about. I’d like to think that the BE conference would be welcome, BUT would the NCAA allow them to participate in a tournament that wasn’t sanctioned by them? I think not.

None of this is cut and dry and all possible scenarios need to be looked at and considered. I’m not saying that IS going to happen, only that it COULD happen. My post below says what I think WILL happen.

[paulxu]

Could they break away for just football? Or is that a crazy idea.

[XUGRAD80]

Could they break away for just football? Or is that a crazy idea.

Sure they could, and it’s an idea that I have seen proposed elsewhere many times. But why would they? It seems to me that the football powerhouses are already calling all the shots and the “NCAA” administration really doesn’t have that much power.

I think it much more likely that a new division, for football only, is created within the current NCAA structure. That this new division be made up by the major football schools, and that it be self governing, and with its own set of rules. The advantage for the schools of remaining within the NCAA framework would be that the “other” sports could remain within the current NCAA structure and rules, and participate in current NCAA championships.

[UCGRAD4X]

The new 12 team football playoffs starts next year. The P5 conference winners are automatically included. Chance of one winning. 100-1. But having a place at the table will go a long way to keeping the conferences relevant.

[xudash]

The new 12 team football playoffs starts next year. The P5 conference winners are automatically included. Chance of one winning. 100-1. But having a place at the table will go a long way to keeping the conferences relevant.

UCGRAD4X, I agree with you with respect to approximately 60 schools finding a way to keep their football programs relevant, especially given the expanded playoff format. Let's treat that as "the floor" for purposes of the rest of this conversation.

So, they'll remain relevant. They'll have a shot at a 12-team playoff, and the bowls will move forward in some fashion. With all that noted, a lot of their athletic departments are still going to be operating in the red outright, and the widening financial gap between the rest of them and the B1G and SEC will be pronounced.

They won't be the walking dead. I'll accept that. But they'll have a couple of Donzi's with jet propulsion out in front of them as they try to keep their twin 250 horsepower Evinrudes running.

- - - - -

XUGRAD80, we'll agree to disagree on this statement: "IF the major football conferences wanted to break away, they could easily supplant the current NCAA tournament with one of their own, and it would still gain huge viewership."

A break away move like that would not be easy. Certainly doable, but not easy. But, more importantly, while I agree with you about them being able to throw their large student and alumni bases at the viewership pool for such a tournament, I believe you are seriously discounting the number of fans that come at the current NCAAT casually or from the other 300'ish schools that always hope they have a shot at the current NCAAT via their conference tournaments, mainly. Again, how would they format their tournament? Does everyone get in? Do they limit it to 36 or maybe 48 teams? First weekend viewing would most likely be comparatively rancid, given that Georgia Tech v Iowa State, as one example, isn't going to light up the Nielsen Ratings.

AT THE MARGIN, could a break away tournament be made to be worthwhile financially? I don't see it happening, especially if a second tournament is put together for all the others that runs parallel to their break away show - a revitalized NIT with more money, albeit not great money.

I'm biased on this one. They have no reason to attempt to solve for basketball. You said it yourself: they're focused on football and the media deals that come from all that activity.

[XUGRAD80]

Dash…..casual people are tuning in to the EVENT, not the game. Oh sure, you have fans of certain schools and they want to watch THEIR school play. But 1/2 those schools are gone after the 1st round, and people will still tune in after their team is eliminated. A lot of people really don’t care who’s playing, they are watching an event. Casual college BB fans who don’t have a dog in the hunt, find one, and will follow that dog for as long as it remains. If there is a 64 team super football conference, that’s plenty of teams to have a “March Madness”. Sure you’ll have teams with losing records and no chance of winning the championship in the tourney, but we have that already. By the 2nd weekend we would still have some underdogs in the field and causal viewers (and betters) wouldn’t care if it says Northwest Iowa or just plain Iowa on their jerseys.

But as I said in my last post…..I really think that the breakaway group is going to be for football only. The major football schools are the ones with the real power, not the NCAA. They are going to tell the NCAA how things are going to be set up. The NCAA needs them, more than they need the NCAA, so they NCAA is going to do what they want it to. They want to pay players directly, they don’t like the NIL because it makes the coaches less powerful. It puts power into the hands of agents and players. They are going to convince the powers that be that the only way to control things is for them to be in control. The really powerful coaches…Sabin, Kelly, Fischer, etc. are going to propose a new NCAA division for football only. It will be one that has the players sign contracts that makes them employees, and they are going to pay those players directly. TV is going to back it financially. As part of their compensation, the players will receive tuition, room, and board……along with a salary and bonuses, just like the NFL. The other sports, including BB, will remain as they are as far as affiliation is concerned. So March Madness will remain as is. Why change it? It’s very successful financially. The NCAA wants and needs the revenue it makes from it. But football has outgrown the NCAA and frankly doesn’t need or want it any longer. Football, and the money it generates is what is driving all of this. The question is….who is going to control that money? Answer….who’s more well known and powerful, Sabin or the president of the NCAA? (I can’t even recall his name)

[sirthought]

Some of these ideas you guys sprout here sound crazy to me.

Remember these institutions run on taxpayer dollars.

[XUBison]

Some of these ideas you guys sprout here sound crazy to me.

Remember these institutions run on taxpayer dollars.

This is exactly right – thank you for making this point. The politicians will get involved, for better or worse.

[xudash]

Dash…..casual people are tuning in to the EVENT, not the game. Oh sure, you have fans of certain schools and they want to watch THEIR school play. But 1/2 those schools are gone after the 1st round, and people will still tune in after their team is eliminated. A lot of people really don’t care who’s playing, they are watching an event. Casual college BB fans who don’t have a dog in the hunt, find one, and will follow that dog for as long as it remains. If there is a 64 team super football conference, that’s plenty of teams to have a “March Madness”. Sure you’ll have teams with losing records and no chance of winning the championship in the tourney, but we have that already. By the 2nd weekend we would still have some underdogs in the field and causal viewers (and betters) wouldn’t care if it says Northwest Iowa or just plain Iowa on their jerseys.

But as I said in my last post…..I really think that the breakaway group is going to be for football only. The major football schools are the ones with the real power, not the NCAA. They are going to tell the NCAA how things are going to be set up. The NCAA needs them, more than they need the NCAA, so they NCAA is going to do what they want it to. They want to pay players directly, they don’t like the NIL because it makes the coaches less powerful. It puts power into the hands of agents and players. They are going to convince the powers that be that the only way to control things is for them to be in control. The really powerful coaches…Sabin, Kelly, Fischer, etc. are going to propose a new NCAA division for football only. It will be one that has the players sign contracts that makes them employees, and they are going to pay those players directly. TV is going to back it financially. As part of their compensation, the players will receive tuition, room, and board……along with a salary and bonuses, just like the NFL. The other sports, including BB, will remain as they are as far as affiliation is concerned. So March Madness will remain as is. Why change it? It’s very successful financially. The NCAA wants and needs the revenue it makes from it. But football has outgrown the NCAA and frankly doesn’t need or want it any longer. Football, and the money it generates is what is driving all of this. The question is….who is going to control that money? Answer….who’s more well known and powerful, Sabin or the president of the NCAA? (I can’t even recall his name)

80 - - Fair enough and well stated, but we'll continue to disagree with one another on this aspect of all of this (i.e. your first paragraph, not the idea of the powerful football schools breaking into their own division within a neutered NCAA).

The EVENT everyone presently tunes into is inclusive. It starts out on a truly national basis with a large VARIETY of schools. There is HOPE and EXCITEMENT. There is EXPOSURE for a number of schools where that otherwise does not occur for such schools throughout the course of the year. Look at Selection Sunday. Look at the excitement that comes when a school's name is announced. A lot of that comes from schools who do not play football, or play it at the P5 level. Inclusivity. David v Goliath. These things are the true essence of the EVENT. Sure, it's mostly about national brands - Xavier among them at this point - by the end of the first weekend, but only mostly. Just look at last year's F4.

People tune in after the elimination of their team at this point because they were at least invited to the inclusive party. The viewership numbers would drop were this thing to become a "big football" club deal. They just would. Only the network executives know or could surmise what a big school only event would pull in viewership and thus ratings and potential media payouts. I just confidently believe that it would be a big enough (potential) hit not to make a break worth it, especially given the ill will that it would create. And, again, in the event they did break off, but a second tournament is put together for the remaining schools, then the p*ssed off little school fan would not be watching the big football basketball tournament, because they would be watching the little guy basketball tournament, notwithstanding the fact that the AD of their school would be crying over diminished revenue from it. Casual fan viewership preferences? Who knows.

We agree that March Madness will most likely remain as it is, and if a new big boy football division is formed to appease that group, then so be it. We all know that would not be a panacea for a number of those schools, since they are already bleeding cash in their athletic departments with that likely continuing for them from here.

I believe we're back to what we've both been stating about all this: they're solving for football, not basketball. They'll continue to do that.

[Uncle Joe]

Dash - appreciate your updates and insights on the BE very much.

Just saw this from Aaron Torres, Fox Sports Radio, and pretty sure he's a Uconn grad. I thought this was an interesting point. Responding to this tweet:

"Big 12 will distribute $440 million in revenue. That averages out to $44 million per school. I believe that's the all in number. (tournament rev, bowls, cfp) When the new contract kicks in, B12 ADs believe that all-in number will approach $50 million."

Torres said this:

"For anyone who doesn't understand why UConn should/will leave the Big East for the Big 12 this is it.

The move isn't to "elevate football." It's so you can pay Dan Hurley his value, Geno Auriemma's replacement, run a Top 25 baseball program, Top 15 hockey program, on and on"

https://twitter.com/Aaron_Torres/status/1664668761570545669

I'll state this again - whether or not UConn leaves, but especially if they do, I think it behooves the BE to go after Gonzaga.

[waggy]

Could be that one day the BE emerges as the “4th conference”. A hybrid.

[xukeith]

If I wanted to read a book, I would not be here online.

[JTG]

Dash - appreciate your updates and insights on the BE very much.

Just saw this from Aaron Torres, Fox Sports Radio, and pretty sure he's a Uconn grad. I thought this was an interesting point. Responding to this tweet:

"Big 12 will distribute $440 million in revenue. That averages out to $44 million per school. I believe that's the all in number. (tournament rev, bowls, cfp) When the new contract kicks in, B12 ADs believe that all-in number will approach $50 million."

Torres said this:

"For anyone who doesn't understand why UConn should/will leave the Big East for the Big 12 this is it.

The move isn't to "elevate football." It's so you can pay Dan Hurley his value, Geno Auriemma's replacement, run a Top 25 baseball program, Top 15 hockey program, on and on"

https://twitter.com/Aaron_Torres/status/1664668761570545669

I'll state this again - whether or not UConn leaves, but especially if they do, I think it behooves the BE to go after Gonzaga.

I didn't major in math but, how is $440 million divided by 14 schools $44 million each? more like $31mil And if they add 2 more schools it drops to $28mil. Unless it's basketball only I don't see Gonzaga as viable in the Big East. ND after an imploded ACC would be a better option.

[GoMuskies]

Dash - appreciate your updates and insights on the BE very much.

Just saw this from Aaron Torres, Fox Sports Radio, and pretty sure he's a Uconn grad. I thought this was an interesting point. Responding to this tweet:

"Big 12 will distribute $440 million in revenue. That averages out to $44 million per school. I believe that's the all in number. (tournament rev, bowls, cfp) When the new contract kicks in, B12 ADs believe that all-in number will approach $50 million."

Torres said this:

"For anyone who doesn't understand why UConn should/will leave the Big East for the Big 12 this is it.

The move isn't to "elevate football." It's so you can pay Dan Hurley his value, Geno Auriemma's replacement, run a Top 25 baseball program, Top 15 hockey program, on and on"

https://twitter.com/Aaron_Torres/status/1664668761570545669

I'll state this again - whether or not UConn leaves, but especially if they do, I think it behooves the BE to go after Gonzaga.

I think this is hilarious reasoning. UConn outside the Big East was an abject disaster. Back in the Big East and winning a national title almost right away. Watching them leave the Big East and fall right back on their faces is going to be so funny to watch.

[bjf123]

I think this is hilarious reasoning. UConn outside the Big East was an abject disaster. Back in the Big East and winning a national title almost right away. Watching them leave the Big East and fall right back on their faces is going to be so funny to watch.

But they’ll be falling back on their faces with a big fat wallet. Ultimately, all they care about is the money.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GoMuskies]

That will be awesome for their fans.

[Xville]

Lots of assumptions being made here. We have no idea what UConn thinks about any of this.

[xudash]

Dash - appreciate your updates and insights on the BE very much.

Just saw this from Aaron Torres, Fox Sports Radio, and pretty sure he's a Uconn grad. I thought this was an interesting point. Responding to this tweet:

"Big 12 will distribute $440 million in revenue. That averages out to $44 million per school. I believe that's the all in number. (tournament rev, bowls, cfp) When the new contract kicks in, B12 ADs believe that all-in number will approach $50 million."

Torres said this:

"For anyone who doesn't understand why UConn should/will leave the Big East for the Big 12 this is it.

The move isn't to "elevate football." It's so you can pay Dan Hurley his value, Geno Auriemma's replacement, run a Top 25 baseball program, Top 15 hockey program, on and on"

https://twitter.com/Aaron_Torres/status/1664668761570545669

I'll state this again - whether or not UConn leaves, but especially if they do, I think it behooves the BE to go after Gonzaga.

Thanks, Joe.

I think we can all agree that there is no doubt that UCONN has the potential to make more money in the Big 12.

It just appears as though they are going to have to walk through a minefield in order for it to work out for them:

1. $30mm exit fee to the Big East.

2. $??mm entry fee to the Big 12.

3. Loss of their share of BE NCAAT UNITS income.

4. A ramp up in expenditures to “P5” operating standards.

5. Initial partial distributions upon entering Big 12; no equal share out of the gate

6. Ongoing heavy operating expenses.

And all of that along with moving into a conference which certainly will still not be regarded as being a stable long-term solution for any of its schools.

[GoMuskies]

Lots of assumptions being made here. We have no idea what UConn thinks about any of this.

Of course. I still hope they stay. But I'll have a hearty laugh at their expense in a few years if they DO leave.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I think this is hilarious reasoning. UConn outside the Big East was an abject disaster. Back in the Big East and winning a national title almost right away. Watching them leave the Big East and fall right back on their faces is going to be so funny to watch.

Yeah, it is a completely simplistic view of the situation. The AAC was obviously a disaster for UConn and while the Big 12 has much better teams, the quality of the teams in the conference was not the major (or at least sole) reason for UConn's issues outside of the Big East.

[Xville]

On busting brackets there was an article posted on if UConn leaves, the six programs that the big East should go after:

At the risk of going thru the why dayton or not pissing natch, here are the six that were listed:

1. Memphis
2. Dayton
3. Slu
4. Fau
5. Vcu
6. Wichita

My thought is out of this list Memphis and slu would be the only options worth even discussing. I’ve always thought slu would be a good fit (much better than butler) and Memphis has the basketball tradition.

[GoMuskies]

If UConn leaves, I wouldn't replace them with any of those. Ten is fine again, thanks. We can wait until something better comes along (or doesn't...that's fine too).

[JTG]

On busting brackets there was an article posted on if UConn leaves, the six programs that the big East should go after:

At the risk of going thru the why dayton or not pissing natch, here are the six that were listed:

1. Memphis
2. Dayton
3. Slu
4. Fau
5. Vcu
6. Wichita

My thought is out of this list Memphis and slu would be the only options worth even discussing. I’ve always thought slu would be a good fit (much better than butler) and Memphis has the basketball tradition.

I would consider SLU, most of the rest add nothing except for Memphis, but almost all of Memphis basketball history is littered with slimy characters and coaches.

[D-West & PO-Z]

As a SLU alum and someone who has seen what they can be with a good coach (Majerus) I would love for SLU to get into the BE. They have the facilities and the fan base, just not always great coaching or results. Good market with good local talent.

However, I can see how someone with no connection would want nothing to do with them in the Big East. They don't move the needle.

Hope UConn stay, if they don't oh well. Still think it would be great to add Gonzaga. If they are interested (maybe they aren't) let them figure out the logistics. Don't see why anyone would see that as a problem for the other BE teams.

[paulxu]

If UConn left, and wasn't replaced, our double round robin would not quite work out. Don't think the conference would want to drop back to 18 games.

Interesting side note, VCU's new coach has a clause in his contract that would guarantee additional compensation if the school moved to another conference where the per school payout was larger than the current A10. Don't know enough about contracts to know if that's unusual, but can't imagine where they'd go without football except to the BE.

[xubrew]

I didn't major in math but, how is $440 million divided by 14 schools $44 million each? more like $31mil And if they add 2 more schools it drops to $28mil. Unless it's basketball only I don't see Gonzaga as viable in the Big East. ND after an imploded ACC would be a better option.

Yeah, the math is a little off, but the concept is correct. The first two tiers of the Big 12 media deal is already done. Most people see to be missing that. The schools are getting MORE even though Texas and Oklahoma left. And if they add schools the overall number goes up so each school still gets the same amount. In other words, to make sure no one gets any less pizza if they invite more people to the pizza party, the networks will give them more pizza. It's roughly $38 million per school per year for the top two tiers of the deal. When you add in everything else $44 million per school per year sounds about right.


I think this is hilarious reasoning. UConn outside the Big East was an abject disaster. Back in the Big East and winning a national title almost right away. Watching them leave the Big East and fall right back on their faces is going to be so funny to watch.

I don't think this is about positioning themselves athletically. I think it's about the university president, the board, and perhaps the state itself seeing just how far in the red UConn is when it comes to athletics, and wanting that to not be the case anymore. Even with the buyout penalty, and having to leave the NCAA units behind (which they would), $44 million a year until 2031 would get them out of the red and then some.

I also get the sense that Brett Yormark wants to continue to expand the Big 12, and perhaps substantially to where it's as many as 18 or 20 members. But, that's a longer story. We've discussed it in one of these threads somewhere, but long story short I think he's looking to do that, and has reached out to a lot of schools, and that UConn is almost assuredly one of them.

[XUGRAD80]

In a recent meeting of B12 schools they admit to having discussed several expansion scenarios, including ones where UConn and/or Gonzaga are included. He wants the B12 to have a coast to coast reach. However, the most active rumor I’ve seen recently says that Colorado to the B12 might be the next major move.

[xubrew]

In a recent meeting of B12 schools they admit to having discussed several expansion scenarios, including ones where UConn and/or Gonzaga are included. He wants the B12 to have a coast to coast reach. However, the most active rumor I’ve seen recently says that Colorado to the B12 might be the next major move.

I think they're eying both Colorado and Utah.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think this is about positioning themselves athletically.

I'm sure it's not, but that won't make it any less amusing when their athletics are once again miserable.

[xudash]

Probably a "good night and so long" scenario for UCONN's Big 12 aspirations:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/arizona-to-big-12-conference-expansion-speculation-swirls-around-pac-12s-wildcats/ar-AA1caey9

Can you imagine being a Sun Devil fan right now!

[xubrew]

Probably a "good night and so long" scenario for UCONN's Big 12 aspirations:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/arizona-to-big-12-conference-expansion-speculation-swirls-around-pac-12s-wildcats/ar-AA1caey9

Can you imagine being a Sun Devil fan right now!

They need to start publishing articles about the schools that the Big 12 has NOT been rumored to reach out to! It's getting to the point to where I think that's a shorter list.

[MHettel]

Well, B12 BBall would be in pretty good shape if they snagged Zona. Gotta wonder, however, about Zonas recruiting footprint. They recruit nationally, but lean towards Cali. Moving to a Midwest based conference could change the attractiveness for some.

[xudash]

We keep good company:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fx8d5CIagAA8vuY?format=jpg&name=medium

Would someone please post a quick lesson on the steps required to post an image properly. Thank you.https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fx8d5CIagAA8vuY?format=jpg&name=medium

[xu82]

We keep good company:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fx8d5CIagAA8vuY?format=jpg&name=medium

Would someone please post a quick lesson on the steps required to post an image properly. Thank you.

That’s an awesome chart! Thanks!

[paulxu]

We keep good company:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fx8d5CIagAA8vuY?format=jpg&name=medium

Would someone please post a quick lesson on the steps required to post an image properly. Thank you.

Bring up image on your screen
Right click on the image
Left click "Copy image link"
Return to your post...as I am now doing to this post
Left click the "Insert Image" icon on the task bar over top of your reply (it's the 3rd one from the right)
That brings up an Insert Image box, with a choice between your computer or "From a URL"
Select from URL, and uncheck the mark in the blue box

Put your mouse on the box to insert a URL, right click, and Paste...this should put in the URL address you "copied" earlier
And Voila! There's you picture. You won't actually see it until you Post the Reply, or Go Advanced to check your work.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fx8d5CIagAA8vuY?format=jpg&name=medium

[Xavgrad08]

Really interesting article on members of the Big 12 pushing back on the Gonzaga addition. Some quotes that stuck out.
“I don’t see any movement for a non-Power Five,” a Big 12 athletic director told me. “I do not think there’s enough support to get them across the finish line".
Adding Pac-12 schools would not reduce the size of Big 12 members’ piece of the pie. But non-P5 additions could mean less money for the current members.
But Yormark has a tough task in persuading Big 12 administrators to take on schools with little or no football impact.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/college/big-12/2023/06/05/big-12-conference-expansion-brett-yormark-faces-resistance-on-adding-gonzaga-uconn/70289562007/

[xukeith]

Great find

[xudash]

Thanks, Paul. I had done everything but not uncheck that damn little box. Now I'll know from now on. Thanks again.

Drinks on you at Dana's after the first 4 all on me!

[xubrew]

UConn’s athletics deficit last year was $53 million. That’s an issue. Athletics is supplemented pretty much everywhere to a point, but that’s far more than what’s normal. And, I think that’s their issue. It’s a public school, and I can see where there would be pressure put on them to not supplement athletics spending to that degree anymore. So, that means cutting spending (and probably not by a little bit) or finding a more substantial revenue stream. That’s why I think they’ll seriously consider going to the Big 12 if they get the chance.

Now will they get the chance?? It’s VERY possible. I’m not going to go so far as to guarantee it, but if I had to guess, I’m guessing that they will.

[xudash]

THAT sounds like a bit of a challenge. It’s why I hate buffets, I want to make the most of it.

I’d love a little notice if this is to take place!

We'll dial you in. Schnaps will be verboten. Nuts will have to be there as well - we'll need a chaperon!

[xu82]

We'll dial you in. Schnaps will be verboten. Nuts will have to be there as well - we'll need a chaperon!

I think my level of concern just went up a step, but what the hell?

[paulxu]

Thanks, Paul. I had done everything but not uncheck that damn little box. Now I'll know from now on. Thanks again.

Drinks on you at Dana's after the first 4 all on me!

That's a deal!

Looking at your chart, I have no idea why UConn is so high. Hurley can' be making that much to push their number over Kentucky, Michigan St, etc.

[D-West & PO-Z]

We keep good company:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fx8d5CIagAA8vuY?format=jpg&name=medium

Would someone please post a quick lesson on the steps required to post an image properly. Thank you.https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fx8d5CIagAA8vuY?format=jpg&name=medium

Thanks for posting.

Is Kansas so low bc most of their budget is spent "under the table"?????

[muskiefan82]

Georgetowns ROI is not good

[MHettel]

Those expenditure number have ZERO credibility with me. I dont believe the schools are required to report in a consistent manner, and as a result, certain things are included for some schools and excluded for others.

I would dismiss the numbers. With that said, the teams at the "top" of that list probably genuinely ARE the teams that spend the most so the list is likely to be "directionally correct."

I REALLY doubt that applying a consistent methodology across schools would result in XU being 8th....

[xudash]

Those expenditure number have ZERO credibility with me. I dont believe the schools are required to report in a consistent manner, and as a result, certain things are included for some schools and excluded for others.

I would dismiss the numbers. With that said, the teams at the "top" of that list probably genuinely ARE the teams that spend the most so the list is likely to be "directionally correct."

I REALLY doubt that applying a consistent methodology across schools would result in XU being 8th....

I can't say I disagree with you about the probability of there being inconsistencies in reporting, although GAAP accounting must have the effect of keeping everyone in check to a reasonable degree.

Here's another interesting website to play with: https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/compare/details

I loaded X versus Kansas for comparison purposes to what I posted here. Drop down to Expenses - Men's Teams and behold the data. I also had done that for our "neighbors" (i.e. UC, Miami and VD) for giggles. It's easy to see why Xavier is THE program in our neck of the woods, if not the entire state of Ohio.

[MHettel]

I can't say I disagree with you about the probability of there being inconsistencies in reporting, although GAAP accounting must have the effect of keeping everyone in check to a reasonable degree.

Here's another interesting website to play with: https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/compare/details

I loaded X versus Kansas for comparison purposes to what I posted here. Drop down to Expenses - Men's Teams and behold the data. I also had done that for our "neighbors" (i.e. UC, Miami and VD) for giggles. It's easy to see why Xavier is THE program in our neck of the woods, if not the entire state of Ohio.

Thats a really cool sight, and it actually illuminates the issue that causes me to pause when I see the numbers.

I compared UC vs XU just to see what I get....

XU Listed First
Operating Expenses: 2.47M vs 1.96M
"Expenses": 16.07M vs 6.62M
"Revenue": 16.07M vs 6.63M

So, thats enough for me. There is a 10M disparity between the "expenses" for XU to run it's BBall Program vs the cost for UC to run theirs? Its 243% MORE expensive????

And then, (by sheer coincidence??) the revenue of both teams match EXACTLTY to their expenses?

This is just accounting gymnastics.

[sirthought]

Georgetowns ROI is not good

The ROI of the majority of D1 athletic spending is not good. Even with all the supposed PR and impact on admissions and fundraising, the balance is skewed heavily in a much more negative direction than people like to believe.

[xubrew]

Thats a really cool sight, and it actually illuminates the issue that causes me to pause when I see the numbers.

I compared UC vs XU just to see what I get....

XU Listed First
Operating Expenses: 2.47M vs 1.96M
"Expenses": 16.07M vs 6.62M
"Revenue": 16.07M vs 6.63M

So, thats enough for me. There is a 10M disparity between the "expenses" for XU to run it's BBall Program vs the cost for UC to run theirs? Its 243% MORE expensive????

And then, (by sheer coincidence??) the revenue of both teams match EXACTLTY to their expenses?

This is just accounting gymnastics.

You are perhaps the first person in human history to describe the Department of Education's Office of Postsecondary Education website as being "really cool!."

"Accounting gymnastics" is an accurate description. All schools still have to be within the rules, but there are dozens (literally) of different types of "revenue" and "expenses." And a scholarship is considered both revenue and an expense at the same time. And a financial supplement that the school gives to the athletic department is considered revenue, even though the school is basically losing that money if it's not spent within the institution.

So, while there are some obvious general indicators when you look at how revenues and expenses are reported to the OPE, you still are never entirely sure exactly what you're looking at when you're looking at that page.

[MHettel]

You are perhaps the first person in human history to describe the Department of Education's Office of Postsecondary Education website as being "really cool!."

"Accounting gymnastics" is an accurate description. All schools still have to be within the rules, but there are dozens (literally) of different types of "revenue" and "expenses." And a scholarship is considered both revenue and an expense at the same time. And a financial supplement that the school gives to the athletic department is considered revenue, even though the school is basically losing that money if it's not spent within the institution.

So, while there are some obvious general indicators when you look at how revenues and expenses are reported to the OPE, you still are never entirely sure exactly what you're looking at when you're looking at that page.

Yeah, exactly

[Blue Blooded-05]

Georgetowns ROI is not good

Better than Louisville. They paid $5,475,000 per win last year

[Seven Eighths]

http://https://www.yahoo.com/news/arizona-president-says-realignment-talk-045347033.html

Seems to me there are two kinds of programs that are considering joining the B12. One is a group like AAC teams that the B12 only invited out of desperation and those teams jumped at the chance. The other group are only interested if things get really bad in their conference.

Current members of the B12 would all leave if the B10 or SEC want them and some might leave for the ACC if asked.

[XUGRAD80]

They jumped at the chance because of the money……you’d have done the same thing. As anyone or any school would…including X.

[xukeith]

No UCLA, No UNC, No Gonzaga. WTF?

[xudash]

Some additional perspective:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2023/06/14/sec-big-ten-2-billion-athletics-revenue-power-five/70313053007/

In 2022, when money from student fees and forms of institutional and government support is not counted, there was a $62.1 million difference between the median revenue generated by an SEC school and that generated by a Pac-12 school.

For some context, in 2022, only nine public schools outside the Power Five conferences had more than $62.1 million in total operating expenses for their entire athletics program.

In 2022, there were 19 Power Five schools that received at least $10 million in allocated revenue; eight were in the Pac-12.

The emphasis on winning in a financial environment in which profits don’t matter makes it likely that as revenues continue to recover from the pandemic and then start growing again, spending increases will follow.

Read that last excerpt again. Schools like UCONN, Wake, BC and Syracuse, to name a few, don't have a snowball's chance in hell in this rodeo.