2023 Coaching Carousel

[Xavgrad08]

Figure we should start a separate thread with the firings/hirings for the 2023 Coaching Carousel. Listed below is a list of some of the jobs that are open so far.

Syracuse, Notre Dame,Georgetown, St. John's, Texas Tech, Ole Miss, California, Georgia Tech and Texas.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-coaching-changes-2023-georgetown-fires-patrick-ewing-stanford-sticking-with-jerod-haase/

Stanford announced HC Jerod Haase will return. Was really surprised by that.

[Xavgrad08]

Jeff Goodman tweeted current Penn State coach Micah Shrewsberry is the main candidate at Georgetown. Goodman said first Georgetown will make a run at Ed Cooley.

[Xville]

Georgetown really shooting for mediocrity while St. John’s is going to get one of the best coaches ever.

[Masterofreality]

Jeff Goodman tweeted current Penn State coach Micah Shrewsberry is the main candidate at Georgetown. Goodman said first Georgetown will make a run at Ed Cooley.

Ed Cooley was never ever leaving Providence. He loves them, they LOVE him.

[GoMuskies]

All the talk in Wichita is that the Shockers are focusing on Mississippi State coach Chris Jans. I'm not sure if that talk has made its way to Starkville, though. Would certainly make for some entertaining times in Wichita. Isaac Brown didn't do a bad job, but he was far too normal to draw crowds in Wichita. We apparently like a spectacle.

[xubrew]

All the talk in Wichita is that the Shockers are focusing on Mississippi State coach Chris Jans. I'm not sure if that talk has made its way to Starkville, though. Would certainly make for some entertaining times in Wichita. Isaac Brown didn't do a bad job, but he was far too normal to draw crowds in Wichita. We apparently like a spectacle.

Had the three-quarters court shot at Arizona not gone in, Bobby Hurley would have probably been available!!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Georgetown really shooting for mediocrity while St. John’s is going to get one of the best coaches ever.

I don't know. I mean obviously Pitino is a homerun hire for St. John if it happens, but I don't think targeting Shrewsberry is mediocre.

He has been an assistant under Brad Stevens at Butler and the Celtics, and the top assistant under Painter at Purdue before going to Penn State where he has them playing pretty well and in the tournament in his second year for the 1st time in 12 years and only the 3rd time this century.

He seems like a sold candidate and he's proven he can win in a high major league.

[muskiefan82]

why would he leave Penn State for Georgetown? That makes little sense

[Xavgrad08]

Jeff Goodman reporting Ole Miss expected to hire Chris Beard.

[JTG]

why would he leave Penn State for Georgetown? That makes little sense

Because basketball is a footnote at Penn State.

[Xville]

Jeff Goodman reporting Ole Miss expected to hire Chris Beard.

Sec’s new slogan should be:

SEC: accomplices to murder and woman beaters, please apply because it means more!

[chico]

I see Chris Mack is rumored to be in the running at...none of these schools.

[sirthought]

Pitino is a good coach, no doubt. But St. John's isn't going very long with a 70 year old man. It doesn't make sense to me. I guess you could argue that any new coach these days is lucky to make it five years. If they get that, so be it. But the body starts doing things you don't plan for at that advanced an age. Ageism makes sense in some roles. It seems like a distraction to have to be worrying about a highly paid employee's health, not to mention how are you going to handle the next move? If they win, will his time there get them over the mediocre hump so the program turns around? It's only time and money, right?

Iona is a perfect spot for him. They can achieve good things. The stakes aren't as high but everyone loves the situation.

[bleedXblue]

Pitino is a good coach, no doubt. But St. John's isn't going very long with a 70 year old man. It doesn't make sense to me. I guess you could argue that any new coach these days is lucky to make it five years. If they get that, so be it. But the body starts doing things you don't plan for at that advanced an age. Ageism makes sense in some roles. It seems like a distraction to have to be worrying about a highly paid employee's health, not to mention how are you going to handle the next move? If they win, will his time there get them over the mediocre hump so the program turns around? It's only time and money, right?

Iona is a perfect spot for him. They can achieve good things. The stakes aren't as high but everyone loves the situation.

Pitino looks old for early 70's I agree that I would want someone with more runway than him. I can also understand that St Johns is tired or taking chances and he can quickly elevate a program.

[xavierj]

Pitino looks old for early 70's I agree that I would want someone with more runway than him. I can also understand that St Johns is tired or taking chances and he can quickly elevate a program.

You think he looks old? He looks younger than Thad Matta lol. Actually he looks very fit with a whole head of fairly black hair. Hope I am in that good of shape at 70.

[GoMuskies]

You think he looks old? He looks younger than Thad Matta lol. Actually he looks very fit with a whole head of fairly black hair. Hope I am in that good of shape at 70.

I suspect that hair is not actually black.

[MHettel]

I suspect that hair is not actually black.

But the can said it was black!

[xudash]

Pitino is a good coach, no doubt. But St. John's isn't going very long with a 70 year old man. It doesn't make sense to me. I guess you could argue that any new coach these days is lucky to make it five years. If they get that, so be it. But the body starts doing things you don't plan for at that advanced an age. Ageism makes sense in some roles. It seems like a distraction to have to be worrying about a highly paid employee's health, not to mention how are you going to handle the next move? If they win, will his time there get them over the mediocre hump so the program turns around? It's only time and money, right?

Iona is a perfect spot for him. They can achieve good things. The stakes aren't as high but everyone loves the situation.

My singular point of focus for this is Big East Basketball and our media agreement moving forward.

Pitino at St. Johns soon and then through the media rights negotiation can only add to the attractiveness of our media package to our partner(s). Give me Pitino at the Johnnies, Sean back at X, Matta dying on the vine at Butler, Cooley staying at Providence, and hopefully Georgetown making a proper splash with a - the - new right coach. Shaka is set in Milwaukee. McDermott remains solid in Omaha. Love him or understandably hate him, Hurley and UConn are a big piece of the puzzle. We'll see what transpires at the Hall and in Philly. DePaul is scheduled to remain in hell for another decade.

Bottomline: we already provide great viewing via great games. Upping the personalities on the sidelines at such a critical junction in conference realignment and media deals can only help the Big East.

[D-West & PO-Z]

My singular point of focus for this is Big East Basketball and our media agreement moving forward.

Pitino at St. Johns soon and then through the media rights negotiation can only add to the attractiveness of our media package to our partner(s). Give me Pitino at the Johnnies, Sean back at X, Matta dying on the vine at Butler, Cooley staying at Providence, and hopefully Georgetown making a proper splash with a - the - new right coach. Shaka is set in Milwaukee. McDermott remains solid in Omaha. Love him or understandably hate him, Hurley and UConn are a big piece of the puzzle. We'll see what transpires at the Hall and in Philly. DePaul is scheduled to remain in hell for another decade.

Bottomline: we already provide great viewing via great games. Upping the personalities on the sidelines at such a critical junction in conference realignment and media deals can only help the Big East.

Well said dash. Pitino, despite his age, would certainly bring some cachet.

[XUGRAD80]

Damon Stoudamire to Ga Tech.

[Masterofreality]

My singular point of focus for this is Big East Basketball and our media agreement moving forward.

Pitino at St. Johns soon and then through the media rights negotiation can only add to the attractiveness of our media package to our partner(s). Give me Pitino at the Johnnies, Sean back at X, Matta dying on the vine at Butler, Cooley staying at Providence, and hopefully Georgetown making a proper splash with a - the - new right coach. Shaka is set in Milwaukee. McDermott remains solid in Omaha. Love him or understandably hate him, Hurley and UConn are a big piece of the puzzle. We'll see what transpires at the Hall and in Philly. DePaul is scheduled to remain in hell for another decade.

Bottomline: we already provide great viewing via great games. Upping the personalities on the sidelines at such a critical junction in conference realignment and media deals can only help the Big East.

I think Neptune at Nova will be fine. But history is littered with first/second year coaches who won with the previous guys players but by year 3, were declining. Randy Ayers at Ohio State comes to mind.
I’m not sold on Shaheen at Seton. Guy seems way to immature and thin skinned to me, and the kind of guy who would wear on his players causing numerous transfers out.
Time will tell.

[Masterofreality]

I see Chris Mack is rumored to be in the running at...none of these schools.

Chris Mack is in the running for- Fish in Kentucky Lake!!

[Xavgrad08]

Damon Stoudamire to Ga Tech.

Will be curious if this ends up working. Stoudamire was an assistant for Sean at Arizona for a couple seasons. Former NBA player and current NBA assistant. GA Tech is a tough job at this point.

[Masterofreality]

Will be curious if this ends up working. Stoudamire was an assistant for Sean at Arizona for a couple seasons. Former NBA player and current NBA assistant. GA Tech is a tough job at this point.

Longtime NBA assistants seem to work out well.
(See Kenny Payne, Louisville)

[GoMuskies]

Longtime NBA assistants seem to work out well.
(See Kenny Payne, Louisville)

See Patrick Ewing, Georgetown

[Masterofreality]

See Patrick Ewing, Georgetown

This could go on for awhile.
See Jeff Bzdelik

[sirthought]

My singular point of focus for this is Big East Basketball and our media agreement moving forward.

Pitino at St. Johns soon and then through the media rights negotiation can only add to the attractiveness of our media package to our partner(s). Give me Pitino at the Johnnies, Sean back at X, Matta dying on the vine at Butler, Cooley staying at Providence, and hopefully Georgetown making a proper splash with a - the - new right coach. Shaka is set in Milwaukee. McDermott remains solid in Omaha. Love him or understandably hate him, Hurley and UConn are a big piece of the puzzle. We'll see what transpires at the Hall and in Philly. DePaul is scheduled to remain in hell for another decade.

Bottomline: we already provide great viewing via great games. Upping the personalities on the sidelines at such a critical junction in conference realignment and media deals can only help the Big East.

When is the next BE contract?

I certainly see your point. And it's not MY money over paying for his contract. There are few coaches more recognizable than Pitino. Maybe it's the Big East picking up the tab for St. Johns just so they'll have a big name to dangle for the media contract!

I think Mike Anderson is actually a really good coach, but they just couldn't recruit enough good players to make his system work. I guess most coaches are pretty good when they have enough good players (except Travis Steele).

[Masterofreality]

Aaron McKie out at Temple.

[Xavgrad08]

Aaron McKie out at Temple.

Colgate’s HC Langel used to be an assistant at Temple. Would think Temple will make a run at him.

[XU 87]

This could go on for awhile.
See Jeff Bzdelik

Now there’s a guy that couldn’t coach.

[xudash]

When is the next BE contract?

I certainly see your point. And it's not MY money over paying for his contract. There are few coaches more recognizable than Pitino. Maybe it's the Big East picking up the tab for St. Johns just so they'll have a big name to dangle for the media contract!

I think Mike Anderson is actually a really good coach, but they just couldn't recruit enough good players to make his system work. I guess most coaches are pretty good when they have enough good players (except Travis Steele).

Val Ackerman has been quoted as stating that she intends to be talking with Fox in the next “months“ or “number of months” (something like that). She has also stated that Fox is a super partner. And she also is on record as having stated that the Big East is in very good position moving forward.

The agreement itself terms out in 2025.

[nickgyp]

Pitino is a good coach, no doubt. But St. John's isn't going very long with a 70 year old man. It doesn't make sense to me. I guess you could argue that any new coach these days is lucky to make it five years. If they get that, so be it. But the body starts doing things you don't plan for at that advanced an age. Ageism makes sense in some roles. It seems like a distraction to have to be worrying about a highly paid employee's health, not to mention how are you going to handle the next move? If they win, will his time there get them over the mediocre hump so the program turns around? It's only time and money, right?

Iona is a perfect spot for him. They can achieve good things. The stakes aren't as high but everyone loves the situation.

Iona can keep Pitino. I would like to think that Red Storm could do better with a hungry, promising young coach who does not have the baggage that the aging Pitino has with him. His shenanigans at Louisville speak of a lack of integrity that no school (especially one that is ostensibly Catholic) should consider. Kelvin Sampson, Bruce Pearl, Chris Beard et al reflect poorly on the institutions where they coach (or will coach).

The Alabama roster has players who can hardly be called student-athletes. North Carolina has (or had) an entire academic department scandal. Perhaps, these things do not matter to the NCAA or the fans at these schools. The Johnnies can and should do better than Pitino.

His ship has sailed and the BE does not need him to keep its place as a premier basketball conference.

[MHettel]

Iona can keep Pitino. I would like to think that Red Storm could do better with a hungry, promising young coach who does not have the baggage that the aging Pitino has with him. His shenanigans at Louisville speak of a lack of integrity that no school (especially one that is ostensibly Catholic) should consider. Kelvin Sampson, Bruce Pearl, Chris Beard et al reflect poorly on the institutions where they coach (or will coach).

The Alabama roster has players who can hardly be called student-athletes. North Carolina has (or had) an entire academic department scandal. Perhaps, these things do not matter to the NCAA or the fans at these schools. The Johnnies can and should do better than Pitino.

His ship has sailed and the BE does not need him to keep its place as a premier basketball conference.

You make good good point. And I wouldn’t want slick Rick as MY coach. But I REALLY want SJU to get back on track. Same with GT. It’s in XUs best interest. Pitino could get it turned in 3-5 years and hand it to someone that can KEEP it at that level.

Doesn’t tarnish the X at all….

[xavierj]

You make good good point. And I wouldn’t want slick Rick as MY coach. But I REALLY want SJU to get back on track. Same with GT. It’s in XUs best interest. Pitino could get it turned in 3-5 years and hand it to someone that can KEEP it at that level.

Doesn’t tarnish the X at all….

Most coaches have skeletons in the closet and do whatever they can do to get an edge and Pitino is no different than 90% of all college basketball coaches. It’s not right but reality. He will win fairly quickly at St John’s as he will attract solid transfers and he also knows how to win and wins everywhere.

[Xville]

I’m sorry but seriously glass houses. We have a head coach that was accused of the same thing pitino was. The other thing was some stripper/hooker parties. I mean who cares? You don’t think there are all kinds of coed shit happening at every school in America with football and basketball players? I mean come on.

The Alabama and Chris beard thing is way more disturbing than anything pitino, Sampson or pearl have ever done.

[GoMuskies]

And who on earth thinks Sampson sending some text messages 15 years ago brings ill repute onto Houston?!?

[Masterofreality]

And who on earth thinks Sampson sending some text messages 15 years ago brings ill repute onto Houston?!?

No. One.
(But I’m glad it gave us Tu Holloway and Jordan Crawford)

[OTRMUSKIE]

So will Georgetown never hire a white coach? The best they can do is get a coach from a conference they are already in? Why is nobody calling them out. They clearly will only hire black coaches. Hire the best candidate for the job! Ed Cooley isn’t that guy and nor was Ewing. Penn State coach would be a much better hire if you have to go black coach. What a joke that program has become.

[GoMuskies]

So will Georgetown never hire a white coach? The best they can do is get a coach from a conference they are already in? Why is nobody calling them out. They clearly will only hire black coaches. Hire the best candidate for the job! Ed Cooley isn’t that guy and nor was Ewing. Penn State coach would be a much better hire if you have to go black coach. What a joke that program has become.

Err.....you may want to Google Craig Esherick.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Err.....you may want to Google Craig Esherick.

Thank you for that, had no idea. So they already did their one white coach. Well okay then, still doesn’t change the fact they will only hire black coaches now.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Man, i don't miss house watch.

Cooley's house on the market.

Imagine Mack leaving for, lets say Marquette, instead of Louisville. Yikes.

Cooley is going to have to go back to Providence every year.

[waggy]

And Cooley was already making $4M.

[BandAid]

Cooley to Georgetown is a mistake for all parties involved.

[Blue Blooded-05]

Man, i don't miss house watch.

Cooley's house on the market.

Imagine Mack leaving for, lets say Marquette, instead of Louisville. Yikes.

Cooley is going to have to go back to Providence every year.

I need to come clean… I have always been a closet Ed Cooley fan. Similar to guys like Phil Martelli and Rick Majerus during the old A10 days, he struck me as a good guy, good coach and tough-but-fair molder of young men. The kind of guy I’d want my son to play for.

But if he bolts to go to an in-conference rival? Damn, I misjudged. That’s like leaving your spouse for their best friend. I really hope he’s just using this as leverage.

[paulxu]

PC Athletic Director Has Harsh Words for Georgetown

On Sunday night, Steven Napolillo said he learned of Georgetown’s contact with Cooley at 11:30 AM that morning.

He criticized Georgetown for poaching another Big East team’s coach. He said of Georgetown's action, “It's a bad a bad look.”

Napolillo said the league is built on trust.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Apparently Cooley signed the paperwork for his house to go up on 3/3. 2 days after losing to X at Providence and 1 day before their home loss to Seton Hall.

[paulxu]

Is this suppose to be like Mack?
His team didn't beat Kentucky because he checked out and was thinking about Georgetown?

[MHettel]

Is this suppose to be like Mack?
His team didn't beat Kentucky because he checked out and was thinking about Georgetown?

Was providence a 1 seed that flamed out of their conference tourney and failed to make it out of the first weekend of the dance?

[Xville]

imo this is a horrible look for Cooley and Georgetown and is not good for the conference as a whole.

As someone else said, this is a conference built on trust....I mean FFS there are a ton of other coaches out there just as good and/or better than Cooley. We should just kick Georgetown out of the league.

[boozehound]

I’m sorry but seriously glass houses. We have a head coach that was accused of the same thing pitino was. The other thing was some stripper/hooker parties. I mean who cares? You don’t think there are all kinds of coed shit happening at every school in America with football and basketball players? I mean come on.

The Alabama and Chris beard thing is way more disturbing than anything pitino, Sampson or pearl have ever done.

Rick Pitino has kind of a 'lifetime achievement award' for being sleazy, too though. I don't really care a ton about the stuff he got popped for, but he certainly seems like a bit of an unsavory dude based on all the information that came out during the investigation. I think it's a good bit different than the Sean Miller situation in which case Sean is by most/all accounts a good guy overall who did some dumb stuff.

[boozehound]

PC Athletic Director Has Harsh Words for Georgetown

On Sunday night, Steven Napolillo said he learned of Georgetown’s contact with Cooley at 11:30 AM that morning.

He criticized Georgetown for poaching another Big East team’s coach. He said of Georgetown's action, “It's a bad a bad look.”

Napolillo said the league is built on trust.

Wow, Ed Cooley is going to get murdered when he comes back to Providence.

Also - Is Ed Cooley really that great of a coach?

[Xville]

Wow, Ed Cooley is going to get murdered when he comes back to Providence.

Also - Is Ed Cooley really that great of a coach?

Nope...seems like a good guy (or at least perception is that he was) but imo hes very average. There's a ton just like him that could be hired imo but maybe a few said no already.

[MHettel]

Not sure i love the Cooley move.

In part because I think Providence may slide quickly. I'd rather have Cooley there, where he can keep them in the NCAA mix on a regular basis and have them as a net "contributor" to the overall quality of the conference.

And second, because I think he may not have enough pizazz to wake up the sleeping giant at GTown. Cooley is like a guy that gets pretty good talent and just gets more out of the collective group than he should. GTown is one of the few places that you can actually attract the TOP TIER Talent on a regular basis. But I'm not sure Cooley is that guy.

I was quietly hoping that somehow Pitino would join SJU and Calipari would say "enough" at Kentucky and make the move to GTown. That would result in a MASSIVE influx of talent to the current lowest tier of the conference. And leave Cooley alone at PC. the BE could be SCARY good.

[xudash]

Not sure i love the Cooley move.

In part because I think Providence may slide quickly. I'd rather have Cooley there, where he can keep them in the NCAA mix on a regular basis and have them as a net "contributor" to the overall quality of the conference.

And second, because I think he may not have enough pizazz to wake up the sleeping giant at GTown. Cooley is like a guy that gets pretty good talent and just gets more out of the collective group than he should. GTown is one of the few places that you can actually attract the TOP TIER Talent on a regular basis. But I'm not sure Cooley is that guy.

I was quietly hoping that somehow Pitino would join SJU and Calipari would say "enough" at Kentucky and make the move to GTown. That would result in a MASSIVE influx of talent to the current lowest tier of the conference. And leave Cooley alone at PC. the BE could be SCARY good.

#1 - I agree about all this not being the best "look" for the primary parties involved, and by extension it is not exactly a net positive for the Big East.

#2 - Excellent point you make with your bolded statement; that is clearly a risk now, especially with UCONN back in the conference in that neck of the woods.

#3 - IF (when) Pitino is formally announced at SJU, and with this move by Cooley, regardless of any other issues involved, the network executives are going to be pleased, and that can only help the media agreement.

So, back to your point about the risk of Providence sliding, wouldn't it be great if they landed an up and coming buzzsaw - that we still constantly beat - to keep Providence steady.

[D-West & PO-Z]

That is a good point, you wonder how much UConn being back in the BE has made Cooley think he needs to get out of PC.

Or maybe it is only about money?

Cooley is certainly well respected (for now) and he sure as hell is going to be better than Ewing, but he hasn't won in the NCAA tourney very much. They finally broke through to a sweet 16 (last year? or year before?)?

Worse case scenario is he doesn't improve Georgetown much, he flames out like Mack at Louisville, and Providence hire doesn't go well either. Hopefuly Providence nails their hire and Cooley resurrects GU.

[MHettel]

#1 - I agree about all this not being the best "look" for the primary parties involved, and by extension it is not exactly a net positive for the Big East.

#2 - Excellent point you make with your bolded statement; that is clearly a risk now, especially with UCONN back in the conference in that neck of the woods.

#3 - IF (when) Pitino is formally announced at SJU, and with this move by Cooley, regardless of any other issues involved, the network executives are going to be pleased, and that can only help the media agreement.

So, back to your point about the risk of Providence sliding, wouldn't it be great if they landed an up and coming buzzsaw - that we still constantly beat - to keep Providence steady.

yeah, I mean we are right back where we started in that situation, except for already having Cooley in the conference and just needing one new coach, the attraction is now going to be providence whereas it could have been GTown. I think GTown can be a top 15 type of job. A HUUUUGE brand with great history in a basketball centric conference. What more could you ask for? they OBVIOUSLY support their program....almost too much as evidenced by bringing in Ewing and then sticking with him for too long.

[D-West & PO-Z]

yeah, I mean we are right back where we started in that situation, except for already having Cooley in the conference and just needing one new coach, the attraction is now going to be providence whereas it could have been GTown. I think GTown can be a top 15 type of job. A HUUUUGE brand with great history in a basketball centric conference. What more could you ask for? they OBVIOUSLY support their program....almost too much as evidenced by bringing in Ewing and then sticking with him for too long.

I agree Georgetown is a sleeping giant.

However, I don't understand you point of how sticking with Ewing as long as they did (too long) is evidence of Georgetown supporting their program? Wouldn't it be the opposite? Didn't X fans think last year the administration was going to make a mistake and not care enough to fire Steele and give him another year?

Or do you mean supporting their coach (not necessarily the same as thing as supporting their program) and that would be attractive to a coach?

[MHettel]

I agree Georgetown is a sleeping giant.

However, I don't understand you point of how sticking with Ewing as long as they did (too long) is evidence of Georgetown supporting their program? Wouldn't it be the opposite? Didn't X fans think last year the administration was going to make a mistake and not care enough to fire Steele and give him another year?

Or do you mean supporting their coach (not necessarily the same as thing as supporting their program) and that would be attractive to a coach?

I mean by sticking with Ewing as a disciple of Thompson. They did that out of loyalty to a dead guy that hadnt coached there for 20+ years.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I mean by sticking with Ewing as a disciple of Thompson. They did that out of loyalty to a dead guy that hadnt coached there for 20+ years.

Got it. Support of the coach, not necessarily what is best for the program. That is attractive for a future coach, not something as a fan I'd find particularly comforting.

[Masterofreality]

Sean Miller to Providence…..










Unconfirmed…

[Masterofreality]

Mike Anderson gonna Sue St. John’s for firing him “for cause” to save $11 million.
Get ur popcorn ready.

[BandAid]

Mike Anderson gonna Sue St. John’s for firing him “for cause” to save $11 million.
Get ur popcorn ready.

Can’t say I blame him

[STL_XUfan]

Mike Anderson gonna Sue St. John’s for firing him “for cause” to save $11 million.
Get ur popcorn ready.

They had cause. It was beCAUSE they hated him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muieuxYkYgo

[xudash]

Mike Anderson gonna Sue St. John’s for firing him “for cause” to save $11 million.
Get ur popcorn ready.

From reading HLOH, one of the Johnnies posters mentioned that they have their billionaire alumnus back in the fold whom they had pissed off with Mullen's handling, etc. That was a key piece of St. John's being able to move forward with these moves.

If that University is standing in quicksand on this issue, he'll obviously end up getting close to, if not all of the entire amount he is owed. If there are a few skeletons in his footlocker over all of this, then I suspect they'll arrive at a settlement for something less.

I noticed an early pre-season (Torvik?) Top Ten ranking earlier today. It has Marquette and UCONN at something like #'s 2 and 3 or 3 and 4, and Creighton is in that top 10 list as well. The Big East will be insane next year.

My bottomline with all of this is very focused: talent IS COMING INTO the Big East. Coaching and players. Some people on the outside looking in are jealous and point to the "sleazy" hiring of a coach or two. Let them. The personalities and storylines are going to be glorious. Ratings will benefit. And the cash register will ring louder.

All this is not exactly music to the ears of any purist who might think that the age of innocence in college basketball has passed by. I believe we all know that ship sailed many moons ago.

No, this is about Xavier being at the right place at the right time to achieve more national lift and success. I am giddy over where all this is headed.

[waggy]

Looks like it’s official. Explains friars swoon.

[xudash]

Looks like it’s official. Explains friars swoon.

Yep.

Per Norlander:
BREAKING: Ed Cooley has accepted the Georgetown job and is leaving Providence, source tells CBS Sports.

[GIMMFD]

And Pitino just signed on to St. John's, interesting day already.

[muskiefan82]

This is all so very strange. If Jay Wright unretires to take the Providence job I think the rapture is upon us.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Mike Anderson gonna Sue St. John’s for firing him “for cause” to save $11 million.
Get ur popcorn ready.

As long as it was "cause" he stunk, they should win easily, lol!

[xupuck10]

Watching everything unfold today with Cooley and GT/PC, in addition to the Anderson lawsuit with St. John's, makes me so happy about how X handled everything last year.

[SM#24]

Apparently Cooley signed the paperwork for his house to go up on 3/3. 2 days after losing to X at Providence and 1 day before their home loss to Seton Hall.
From a PC person, Cooley bought a new house in RI two months ago. That was the previous house.

[bjf123]

Mike Anderson gonna Sue St. John’s for firing him “for cause” to save $11 million.
Get ur popcorn ready.

How’d that work for UC when they fired their previous coach? “For cause” reasons are usually spelled out in the contract. You’d think winning record might be one of them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[X-band '01]

Honestly, I don't blame Cooley for taking a big swing here; he can't really take Providence much further than he already has, can he?

Cooley has done wonders with the portal at Providence and should be able to eventually get Georgetown back to the NCAAs at a minimum. If not by Year 2, then certainly by Year 3.

[GIMMFD]

Honestly, I don't blame Cooley for taking a big swing here; he can't really take Providence much further than he already has, can he?

Cooley has done wonders with the portal at Providence and should be able to eventually get Georgetown back to the NCAAs at a minimum. If not by Year 2, then certainly by Year 3.

Crazy how the transfer portal has changed how quickly rebuilds can occur, or just team building in general, with Cooley's pull there's even a possibility Georgetown could be competitive next year, guess the same applies to St. John's and Pitino, but St. John's is already in a better state than Georgetown program wise.

[Xavgrad08]

Joh Fanta tweeted one of the top targets for Providence is current George Mason coach Kim English. Former Rick Barnes assistant.

[X-band '01]

Former Xavier assistant Jeff Battle will also be a candidate assuming he doesn't follow Cooley down I-95 to DC.

[paulxu]

Would Kelsey be in line for Providence as a possibility?

[drudy23]

Would Kelsey be in line for Providence as a possibility?

At this point does he even want to make the jump? Just got a huge increase at CofC, lives in Charleston, and will probably rule that conference. I think if he really wanted the power 6 job, he would have pursued one by now.

[drudy23]

Mike Anderson gonna Sue St. John’s for firing him “for cause” to save $11 million.
Get ur popcorn ready.

And he's going to get most of it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

At this point does he even want to make the jump? Just got a huge increase at CofC, lives in Charleston, and will probably rule that conference. I think if he really wanted the power 6 job, he would have pursued one by now.

How do we know he hasn't pursued one and is told no? I have never heard of him being offered one. His name comes up on a list sometimes but that is it. The biggest job he's ever been publicly offered is UMASS.

[drudy23]

I think his highest profile job offer was UMass. Sounds like he was maybe involved at NKU? Was he a true final candidate at X?

Other than that, I haven't heard his name for higher profile jobs.

[Masterofreality]

Providence should hire BOBBY Hurley!!!
Get him back East.
Providence & UConn fan hate each other already. This would be Chef’s Kiss.

Boom!

[GoMuskies]

How about Archie Miller? If he hadn't sucked so bad at URI last year, he could have just moved 25 miles over to Providence and coached opposite his bro.

[MHettel]

Providence should hire BOBBY Hurley!!!
Get him back East.
Providence & UConn fan hate each other already. This would be Chef’s Kiss.

Boom!

thats a great idea. Not sure how well he would do in the long run, but really that would apply to nearly everyone that might get hired at PC.

but in the SHORT RUN, that would be awesome and bring ALOT of attention to the BE for sure.

[GoMuskies]

Tobin Anderson leaves FDU for Iona. A school in FDU's league announced yesterday that they were shutting down Division I athletics. Probabably a good time to strike while the iron is hot and get out of that league. You can do some things at Iona.

[bjf123]

I think his highest profile job offer was UMass. Sounds like he was maybe involved at NKU? Was he a true final candidate at X?

Other than that, I haven't heard his name for higher profile jobs.

Don’t know if he was a final candidate at X, but I’d bet money he, or his agent, contacted X about the job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Xavgrad08]

Sounds like Wichita St is hiring Oral Robert’s coach Paul Mills.

[X-band '01]

Tobin Anderson leaves FDU for Iona. A school in FDU's league announced yesterday that they were shutting down Division I athletics. Probabably a good time to strike while the iron is hot and get out of that league. You can do some things at Iona.

That was Saint Francis-Brooklyn. They were one of 4 schools that were originally part of D1 athletics that has never made (and will never make) the NCAA Tournament. There has been talk about declining enrollment and increasing expenses for schools in other threads, but SF-BK is the first school to completely shut down athletics completely.

Even Chicago State has had their troubles and Hartford is transitioning DOWN to D3, but this is a pretty extreme step. XUBrew knows more about these things than I do and he's probably got a better perspective of what led to such a shutdown.

[GoMuskies]

Sounds like Wichita St is hiring Oral Robert’s coach Paul Mills.

Boring. But probably solid.

[STL_XUfan]

Sounding like Kim English to Providence. He will be a great coach someday, but I am worried this is too big of a job too quickly. His players will love him and run through a wall for him and I think that energy will leak out into the students and alumni.

[MHettel]

Sounding like Kim English to Providence. He will be a great coach someday, but I am worried this is too big of a job too quickly. His players will love him and run through a wall for him and I think that energy will leak out into the students and alumni.

Kim English played for Mike Anderson and Frank Haiti at Mizzou.

Hope the ink isn’t dry yet

[Masterofreality]

Seems like the League is becoming “Haves” and “Have Nots” as to Coaches.

Haves: Xavier, Creighton, Marquette, St. John’s, Georgetown, UConn.
Have Nots: Seton Hall, Butler, DePaul,
TBD soon: Villanova, Providence.

I *Think* Neptune will be Ok, but there is talk of roster upheaval and dissension, but that same source told me about UConn dissension that never showed up, so time will tell as it will if English goes to Providence.
Shaheen Holloway just seems too immature for me. Matta is washed up and Stubblefield is a Never was.

[xavierj]

Seems like the League is becoming “Haves” and “Have Nots” as to Coaches.

Haves: Xavier, Creighton, Marquette, St. John’s, Georgetown, UConn.
Have Nots: Seton Hall, Butler, DePaul,
TBD soon: Villanova, Providence.

I *Think* Neptune will be Ok, but there is talk of roster upheaval and dissension, but that same source told me about UConn dissension that never showed up, so time will tell as it will if English goes to Providence.
Shaheen Holloway just seems too immature for me. Matta is washed up and Stubblefield is a Never was.

Neptune will have to hit the portal hard. He will lose some guys and as of now he has 1 guy signed who had I think one other mid major offer. My guess is his plan all along was to hit the portal and bring in a ton of guys.

[sirthought]

Personally, I would have liked Cooley to stay at PC, but I get it. You can sometimes only stay in one organization so long before your words and actions seem like they are part of the old, dull furniture.

You want someone to really appreciate what you do. And what you might bring that's different. And while there might have been a number of programs in other conferences that would have relished Cooley's ability at their school, Cooley has limited options to make a good money jump and still have the benefits that a Big East school can provide. Especially one with Georgetown's legacy.

But hey, he's getting up there in age. If he continued to not break through at PC then he can only blame himself. If he doesn't break through at GU, then he can retire saying he tried to revive things, but the institution had somehow lost its mojo. It's a pride and reputation thing, I guess.

[sirthought]

Seriously, I think Georgetown should have hired someone like Kim English. No idea how he'll do, but they need some young, hungry blood in that place. Everything feels like your grandparent's old photo albums there.


I actually thought they should have talked to Tommy Ammacker. He doesn't always win big at a place like Harvard, but he's shown he can develop kids and knows how to win games.

[MHettel]

Gtown struck out on Cooley.

It's an incredible school in Washington DC!!! The international recruiting inroads are already there. They needed a guy that could tap EuroBall and get that thing rolling. They arent gonna win by getting the metro DC talent.


Miss.

Sorry if that isnt popular.

on the other hand, Pitino will RAKE in NYC.

[JTG]

I was reading a blurb about Mike Brey going to USF. It mentioned that Lee Rose, who took Purdue to the Final Four in 1980, left Purdue for USF and was never heard from again. But it's a nice place to retire.

[UCGRAD4X]

Gtown struck out on Cooley.

It's an incredible school in Washington DC!!! The international recruiting inroads are already there. They needed a guy that could tap EuroBall and get that thing rolling. They arent gonna win by getting the metro DC talent.


Miss.

Sorry if that isnt popular.

on the other hand, Pitino will RAKE in NYC.

Cooley to GU was a bit of a head-scratcher for me too - on both sides.

'Tis a brave new NCAA world.

[Masterofreality]

I was reading a blurb about Mike Brey going to USF. It mentioned that Lee Rose, who took Purdue to the Final Four in 1980, left Purdue for USF and was never heard from again. But it's a nice place to retire.

Can we put Midget Brian Gregory in that same category?
And Brey is another Thad Matta story. Guy is tired & washed up but gonna get one more payday.

[Xville]

Sounding like Kim English to Providence. He will be a great coach someday, but I am worried this is too big of a job too quickly. His players will love him and run through a wall for him and I think that energy will leak out into the students and alumni.

Yeah, this. Everything I have heard about him from a coaching perspective is that the guy is a hell of a recruiter, and from his Mizzou days I remember him being extremely likeable.

It is from an X's and O's perspective that may cause him some trouble, especially with the way the Big East is stacking Coaching talent. I remember thinking a few years ago how mediocre the coaching was in the Big East, that seems to have flipped in the last 3 or so years.

[UCGRAD4X]

Yeah, this. Everything I have heard about him from a coaching perspective is that the guy is a hell of a recruiter, and from his Mizzou days I remember him being extremely likeable.

It is from an X's and O's perspective that may cause him some trouble, especially with the way the Big East is stacking Coaching talent. I remember thinking a few years ago how mediocre the coaching was (at Xavier) in the Big East, that seems to have flipped (at Xavier) in the last (year) 3 or so years.

Boy did that sound eerily familiar.

[nuts4xu]

Don’t know if he was a final candidate at X, but I’d bet money he, or his agent, contacted X about the job.




Last year? I doubt Kelsey's call ever came, and if it was, it wasn't answered.

Xavier had one guy in mind last year. They fired Steele for the sole purpose of pursuing Sean Miller. Kelsey was not considered for the opening.

In previous years where we had a coaching change? I think his name was thrown around but I don't recall him being a serious candidate to take over the HC job at Xavier.

[Xville]

Boy did that sound eerily familiar.

Ha yeah I was thinking the same as I was writing it. I think English does have a bit better knowledge having actually played the game above the high school level. I think Kim will eventually get it because the knowledge is there, it will just take time. I don’t think the knowledge will ever be there with Tin man

[American X]

Sounding like Kim English to Providence.


Kim English played for Mike Anderson and Frank Haiti at Mizzou.


Yeah, this. Everything I have heard about him from a coaching perspective is that the guy is a hell of a recruiter, and from his Mizzou days I remember him being extremely likeable.

It is from an X's and O's perspective that may cause him some trouble, especially with the way the Big East is stacking Coaching talent. I remember thinking a few years ago how mediocre the coaching was in the Big East, that seems to have flipped in the last 3 or so years.


Boy did that sound eerily familiar.


Ha yeah I was thinking the same as I was writing it. I think English does have a bit better knowledge having actually played the game above the high school level. I think Kim will eventually get it because the knowledge is there, it will just take time. I don’t think the knowledge will ever be there with Tin man

It probably helps that Kim English is not a graduate of Rhode Island.

[BandAid]

Will Cooley be better than Ewing? Kinda difficult to not be. I don’t think he’ll be the guy to take Georgetown back to the promised land though. But he’s better than any one else available in the market.

There are lots of rumors on the Providence boards about Copley’s switch being motivated primarily by private life stuff…Regardless, a coach jumping to a conference rival is a bad look for everyone.

Kim English will be boom or bust, which is a fine hire. If I were a Providence fan I’d be more interested in Speedy Claxton.

Norte Dame’s fans are talking up McDermott. I don’t see that as an upgrade for him, but who knows? Money talks, and Creighton dragged him through a diversity-sensitivity hell.

[muskiefan82]

and Creighton dragged him through a diversity-sensitivity hell.

I forgot about that.....I now wonder if that will be a factor...interesting

[waggy]

There are lots of rumors on the Providence boards about Copley’s switch being motivated primarily by private life stuff

The timing is a bit suspect. There’s probably some truth both ways.

[GoMuskies]

There are lots of rumors on the Providence boards about Copley’s switch being motivated primarily by private life stuff

I can believe it. He personally wanted twice as much money for his private life.

[zippin']

I just have a hard time believing the rumors about Cooley cheating on his wife. Not a peep for 12 years and then suddenly all of this? No way. That said, this entire move has been absolutely legendary in terms of how poorly literally everyone involved handled it. I don't think I've seen anything quite like it.

[zippin']

on the other hand, Pitino will RAKE in NYC.

Couldn't agree more. The Johnnies are going to the tournament next year. Book it.

[X-band '01]

Will Cooley be better than Ewing? Kinda difficult to not be. I don’t think he’ll be the guy to take Georgetown back to the promised land though. But he’s better than any one else available in the market.

There are lots of rumors on the Providence boards about Copley’s switch being motivated primarily by private life stuff…Regardless, a coach jumping to a conference rival is a bad look for everyone.

Kim English will be boom or bust, which is a fine hire. If I were a Providence fan I’d be more interested in Speedy Claxton.

Norte Dame’s fans are talking up McDermott. I don’t see that as an upgrade for him, but who knows? Money talks, and Creighton dragged him through a diversity-sensitivity hell.

At least it was just training and not outright termination like Mark Adams down at Texas Tech.

[Masterofreality]

Looks like Penn State’s Shrewsbury is going to The Dome

[X-band '01]

In other words, Martin Inglesby is not ready for the ND job. I figured they'd either go with him (in the Mike Brey coaching tree) or wait for Dusty May.

[Xville]

English to the friars. Could be a good hire, a big jump but at least he’s been a head coach before.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Fanta posted a 10 min interview with Cooley on twitter that I am sure made any Friar fan (and some non Friar fans) cringe.

[Masterofreality]

Fanta posted a 10 min interview with Cooley on twitter that I am sure made any Friar fan (and some non Friar fans) cringe.

I don’t think that John has come off very well, or done himself any favors through this whole Cooley process.
He’s gotta report on it, but he comes across a little too fawning and excusatory without recognizing enough the pain of Friar fan.
We know that feeling all too well.

[GoMuskies]

Fanta's a weirdo.

[zippin']

I liked Fanta a lot before this but the way he went about this was just weird.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don't have any issue with Fanta. It isn't like he is a hard hitting journalist. He works for the BE, Fox, freelance, whatever and he's asking some decent questions where Cooley is clearly lying or giving evasive answers and Fanta just lets it go. I didn't expect Fanta challenge Cooley much.

Cooley was fairly cringeworthy imo. At one point he basically blames his wife for the move and then he later makes some weird distinction between Coach Cooley and Ed.

[xubrew]

I thought the interview was just like most sports media that I've seen. it was completely and totally pointless.

Everyone seems to think their team/school is sacred and that their coach will never want to leave. The reality is that NO place is sacred, and EVERY coach will leave if they feel they can get something they'll like more. Figuring that out has saved me from a lot of bitterness and aggravation. In most cases I'm really not all that interested in listening to coaches explain why they left. They wanted to, so they did. That's really all it comes down to. And I don't even really think people should begrudge them for it. I kind of wish the overall attitude was "If you want to go, then go. We'll get someone else. There are plenty out there."

[MHettel]

I thought the interview was just like most sports media that I've seen. it was completely and totally pointless.

Everyone seems to think their team/school is sacred and that their coach will never want to leave. The reality is that NO place is sacred, and EVERY coach will leave if they feel they can get something they'll like more. Figuring that out has saved me from a lot of bitterness and aggravation. In most cases I'm really not all that interested in listening to coaches explain why they left. They wanted to, so they did. That's really all it comes down to. And I don't even really think people should begrudge them for it. I kind of wish the overall attitude was "If you want to go, then go. We'll get someone else. There are plenty out there."

weird take

[X-band '01]

For some reason, every time I hear Kim English mentioned I think of one-time Mizzou coach Kim Anderson. Let's hope for his sake that English has a better trajectory at Providence.

[XUGRAD80]

I thought the interview was just like most sports media that I've seen. it was completely and totally pointless.

Everyone seems to think their team/school is sacred and that their coach will never want to leave. The reality is that NO place is sacred, and EVERY coach will leave if they feel they can get something they'll like more. Figuring that out has saved me from a lot of bitterness and aggravation. In most cases I'm really not all that interested in listening to coaches explain why they left. They wanted to, so they did. That's really all it comes down to. And I don't even really think people should begrudge them for it. I kind of wish the overall attitude was "If you want to go, then go. We'll get someone else. There are plenty out there."

I agree. Changing jobs on a regular basis is the norm anymore, not the exception. Sometimes a coach, or an employee, just wants a change of scenery. Other times they are looking for a new, or greater, challenge. But whatever the reason, I’m not losing sleep over it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

For some reason, every time I hear Kim English mentioned I think of one-time Mizzou coach Kim Anderson. Let's hope for his sake that English has a better trajectory at Providence.

I thought the same thing, lol. When I first heard his name I was thinking why are they hiring the former Mizzou coach? I do remember Kim English playing at Mizzou though. He was legit. I believe he was on the 2 seed Mizzou though that lost to a 15 seed (blanking on which team beat them though).

[xubrew]

weird take

Yes, I must admit that deciding to not be bothered by the things I can't control, and realizing that coaches will almost always do what is in their own personal selfish interests is a bit of a weird take.

[zippin']

weird take

Why? Regular people change jobs all the time, coaches can too.

[GoMuskies]

For some reason, every time I hear Kim English mentioned I think of one-time Mizzou coach Kim Anderson. Let's hope for his sake that English has a better trajectory at Providence.


I thought the same thing, lol. When I first heard his name I was thinking why are they hiring the former Mizzou coach? I do remember Kim English playing at Mizzou though. He was legit. I believe he was on the 2 seed Mizzou though that lost to a 15 seed (blanking on which team beat them though).

Dittos

[MHettel]

Yes, I must admit that deciding to not be bothered by the things I can't control, and realizing that coaches will almost always do what is in their own personal selfish interests is a bit of a weird take.

I view sports as an outlet. It’s absolutely meaningless in the world. Its ONLY purpose is to allow people (men, mostly) to have an outlet of emotions. We can embrace a team and love them and then feel total jubilation when the win or be crushed when they lose.

If not for sports, do those emotions not exist, or do we bottle them up. Or maybe worse, do we let those emotions out during other real world interactions that matter.

What I’m hearing you say is that you just experience the sports, but skip the emotional attachment. So, yeah, weird take.

[xubrew]

Emotional attachment....TO COACHES???

I have no emotional attachment whatsoever to specific coaches. None. That's not to say I don't like some of them, but I sure as hell ain't sleeping with any or married to any. Nor am I under any illusions that they have any real emotional attachment to the school or fans. They absolutely do not. If on Sunday night Sean Miller is named the new head coach of Texas, I wouldn't even blink. I don't think that will happen, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if it idd. I also don't think it would matter all that much. Now, if that happens and Xavier isn't prepared for it, THAT would be an issue! Being emotionally attached to coaches and not realizing that they are not emotionally attached to you or your school is a problem. Not being prepared each and every day as to what to do when they do leave is also a problem.

And dude, really....You think it's weird for me to NOT be emotionally attached to a coach I don't even know?? Okay Gonzo...

[bleedXblue]

I don't trust any coach in high level D1 sports

They can say whatever and they can tell you how much they love where they are......99% of them will leave for a better situation.

Enjoy what you have while you have it. Expect that person will leave at some point.

[Xville]

Emotional attachment....TO COACHES???

I have no emotional attachment whatsoever to specific coaches. None. That's not to say I don't like some of them, but I sure as hell ain't sleeping with any or married to any. Nor am I under any illusions that they have any real emotional attachment to the school or fans. If on Sunday night Sean Miller is named the new head coach of Texas, I wouldn't even blink. I don't think that will happen, but I don't think it would matter all that much if it did. Now, if that happens and Xavier isn't prepared for it, THAT would be an issue! Being emotionally attached to coaches and not realizing that they are not emotionally attached to you or your school is a problem. Not being prepared each and every day as to what to do when they do leave is also a problem.

And dude, really....You think it's weird for me to NOT be emotionally attached to a coach I don't even know?? Okay Gonzo...

Wtf are you serious? You don’t think it would be an issue if miller left for Texas after the season? What planet are you living on? Did you not live thru the last four years like the rest of us? It is extremely important for miller to stay for a very long time at Xavier. You can be prepared all you want for someone to leave, saying “ I don’t think it would matter all that much if he did.” To me is an insane take.

[xubrew]

Wtf are you serious? You don’t think it would be an issue if miller left for Texas after the season? What planet are you living on? Did you not live thru the last four years like the rest of us? It is extremely important for miller to stay for a very long time at Xavier. You can be prepared all you want for someone to leave, saying “ I don’t think it would matter all that much if he did.” To me is an insane take.

A better way of putting it is to say that losing your coach isn't that big of a deal if you always know who you want and how to get them when they do leave. I also think that Xavier is a place that a lot of really good coaches will want to be at, and there are A LOT of good ones out there. I think Xavier would still be really good with someone like...say Dusty May, or Mark Madsen, or Grant McCasland, or Darian Devries. I also think we'd be able to get someone like that. So...no, I guess I wouldn't be all that concerned if Miller suddenly left.

[XUGRAD80]

I view sports as an outlet. It’s absolutely meaningless in the world. Its ONLY purpose is to allow people (men, mostly) to have an outlet of emotions. We can embrace a team and love them and then feel total jubilation when the win or be crushed when they lose.

If not for sports, do those emotions not exist, or do we bottle them up. Or maybe worse, do we let those emotions out during other real world interactions that matter.

What I’m hearing you say is that you just experience the sports, but skip the emotional attachment. So, yeah, weird take.


With no desire to criticize any X fan in a personal manner……I’d have to say that this^ is weird. Just my opinion and nothing personal.

Yes, I’m happy when X wins, and I’m sad when they lose. But I’m not jubilant, nor am I crushed. Nor is Xavier BB the be all and end all of my interests in sports or teams. I follow some HS teams and individuals, some other college teams and individuals, and some professional teams. I think that having more than one team/sport that one follows is pretty normal. I also think that it’s pretty normal to feel emotions about things other than how ones favorite sports team is doing. If X loses sometime this weekend or next, I’ll be sad about the lose, but I’ll also look back on what has been a fine and fun season. I hope with all my heart that X gets that elusive F4, but if it never happens I’ll still be ok. Baseball season starts on Thursday, the days are getting warmer and longer, and there will be ample opportunities to ride my motorcycle, play golf, and take my grandkids to the park. Plenty of evenings sitting out under the stars listening to a ball game on the radio and sipping a cool drink. And when the summer comes to a close, there will be football games to attend, soccer matches to watch, and before we know it, it will time for another Xavier BB season to start up again. In the meantime, coaches will go, players will go, and the program will live for another year. I’m not going to let any one defeat crush me or any one victory justify my existence. I never understood mature adults that emotionally live and die by how “their” team fares. To me, that wouldn’t be any fun. And if it’s not fun….why do it? Once again, just my opinion and if you’re happy that’s fine with me, and should be fine with everyone else too.

[GoMuskies]

A better way of putting it is to say that losing your coach isn't that big of a deal if you always know who you want and how to get them when they do leave. I also think that Xavier is a place that a lot of really good coaches will want to be at, and there are A LOT of good ones out there. So...no. I really wouldn't be all that concerned.

I would be VERY, VERY, VERY concerned for two reasons.

#1 - There are a lot of really good coaches out there, but very few of them are as good as Sean Mller, and we couldn't afford (or convince to come to Xavier) any of the ones who ARE as good as Miller.

#2 - Our current athletic director once surveyed the landscape of all those "really good coaches" and selected Travis Fucking Steele to be our head coach.

So yeah, it would be a concern.

[Xville]

A better way of putting it is to say that losing your coach isn't that big of a deal if you always know who you want and how to get them when they do leave. I also think that Xavier is a place that a lot of really good coaches will want to be at, and there are A LOT of good ones out there. I think Xavier would still be really good with someone like...say Dusty May, or Mark Madsen, or Grant McCasland, or Darian Devries. I also think we'd be able to get someone like that. So...no, I guess I wouldn't be all that concerned if Miller suddenly left.

The flash in the pan coaches? I guess we will agree to disagree because I don’t think there are a lot of good coaches out there, at least not close to the level of miller. Top ten coaches don’t grow on trees and certainly not ones that would come to x

[xubrew]

The flash in the pan coaches? I guess we will agree to disagree because I don’t think there are a lot of good coaches out there, at least not close to the level of miller. Top ten coaches don’t grow on trees

Well if/when he does leave, I won't be shocked, and I think we'd be in reasonably good shape to get someone else.

It's not that I don't think Miller in particular has no deep emotional attachment to Xavier so much as that I don't think ANY coach ANY WHERE has an actual emotional attachment to their current schools. If you're emotionally attached to your coach, and think the world will end if he leaves, then...well...I guess you actually probably are correct. But I would say that has probably more to do with a school not being ready than it did with their coach leavingt. Coaches will always leave. For a school to think that they won't and not be ready when they do is what ultimately sinks a lot of them.

In looking at all the previous coaching changes Xavier has gone through, I do seem to be one of the only people who wasn't surprised when the coach first said they were out the door. Coaches leave. Almost no school is immune to that. Even elite programs have coaches that choose to leave. Kansas, on more than one occasion, had a coach that chose to leave!! KANSAS!!!!

[xubrew]

Let me put this another way to sort of better explain exactly where it is that I'm standing...

If a crucial part of a program's long term plan for success is keeping their current coach for a long period of time, that's probably not a good plan. No matter who you are. Coaches rarely stay anywhere for a long period of time. I don't know how many of the 363 coaches have been at their current schools for more than ten years, but I'm willing to bet quite a bit that it's somewhere around...not many. Here are some schools that are not on the list of coaches who have been there for less than ten years...

Arizona
UCLA
Marquette
Texas
Alabama
Houston
Indiana
UConn
Xavier
Tennessee
Kansas State


You know what else all those teams have in common?? All were protected seeds in this year's tournament. So...

[MHettel]

3 Basic Questions for ya, Brew.

1. Do you believe Gonzaga is one of the PREMIER basketball programs in the country currently, and has been on a steady rise over the last 2 decades?

2. if Yes, do you attribute ANY of that success to the fact that Mark Few has been there for 24 years?

3. Do you believe that if Sean Miller had not left Xavier 15 years ago (whatever number of years ago), or for that matter Chris Mack would not have left 5 years ago that XU may have achieved MORE than what was actually achieved in that 15 or 5 year span?

I know how I would answer those questions.

[MHettel]

Let me put this another way to sort of better explain exactly where it is that I'm standing...

If a crucial part of a program's long term plan for success is keeping their current coach for a long period of time, that's probably not a good plan. No matter who you are. Coaches rarely stay anywhere for a long period of time. I don't know how many of the 363 coaches have been at their current schools for more than ten years, but I'm willing to bet quite a bit that it's somewhere around...not many. Here are some schools that are not on the list of coaches who have been there for less than ten years...

Arizona
UCLA
Marquette
Texas
Alabama
Houston
Indiana
UConn
Xavier
Tennessee
Kansas State


You know what else all those teams have in common?? All were protected seeds in this year's tournament. So...

Is this all you got? Really?

[xubrew]

3 Basic Questions for ya, Brew.

1. Do you believe Gonzaga is one of the PREMIER basketball programs in the country currently, and has been on a steady rise over the last 2 decades?

2. if Yes, do you attribute ANY of that success to the fact that Mark Few has been there for 24 years?

3. Do you believe that if Sean Miller had not left Xavier 15 years ago (whatever number of years ago), or for that matter Chris Mack would not have left 5 years ago that XU may have achieved MORE than what was actually achieved in that 15 or 5 year span?

I know how I would answer those questions.

Yes, I believe Gonzaga Gonzaga is an elite program, and yes I believe Mark Few had a lot to do with it. I also believe they'll still be an elite program whenever it is that Mark Few leaves, and would still be elite today had he left years ago. Yunno, I remember when Dan Monson left Gonzaga. He took a job coaching a team they had played in the NCAA Tournament just a few weeks before. Everyone thought they were done then too. And really, the key word here, as you yourself said, is PROGRAM. Yes, I think the PROGRAM is elite. I don't think it's all because of the coach and that it will crumble once he leaves.

When Miller left, Xavier went to the Sweet Sixteen the very next year, made several more Sweet Sixteens, earned a #1 seed and a #2 seed in two different tournaments, and made an Elite Eight. Since that was actually a higher level of success than what we had when Miller WAS here, my answer is no, I don't think we would have done better than that had Miller stayed. Maybe as good, but not substantially better.

As for Mack leaving, was that ENTIRELY because Mack left, or was it at least partially because Steele is who replaced him??

And I guess you just didn't bother to ask about when Matta left?? People flipped out then too and thought X would never be back at that level.

[MHettel]

Yes, I believe Gonzaga Gonzaga is an elite program, and yes I believe Mark Few had a lot to do with it. I also believe they'll still be an elite program whenever it is that Mark Few leaves, and would still be elite today had he left years ago. Yunno, I remember when Dan Monson left Gonzaga. He took a job coaching a team they had played in the NCAA Tournament just a few weeks before. Everyone thought they were done then too.

When Miller left, Xavier went to the Sweet Sixteen the very next year, made several more Sweet Sixteens, earned a #1 seed and a #2 seed in two different tournaments, and made an Elite Eight. Since that was actually a higher level of success than what we had when Miller WAS here, my answer is no, I don't think we would have done better than that had Miller stayed. Maybe as good, but not substantially better.

As for Mack leaving, was that ENTIRELY because Mack left, or was it at least partially because Steele is who replaced him??

And I guess you just didn't bother to ask about when Matta left?? People flipped out then too and thought X would never be back at that level.

Nobody thought Gonzaga was "done" when Monson left because Gonzaga hadn't actually accomplished anything aside from Monson's very last year. They had made ONE prior NCAA tournament appearance in 1995, and Monson wasnt even the coach.

Nobody was "talking" about how Gonzaga is done. Thats a fake memory cause you dont want to provide a real answer those 2 questions.

Xavier was MUUUUUCH further along as a program than Gonzaga was in 1999. And yet we've had 6 coaches (Prosser, Matta, Miller, Mack, Steele, Miller) while they sped right past us to national prominence.

What your point about Mack leaving exactly? is it that we had a GOOD coach that left and then we tried to find a replacement good coach and it didnt really work out so the program performance suffered. Isnt that MY point?

And jeez, lets go back to Matta. After Matta left, we....didnt make the tournament in Millers first year and then were a 14 seed the next and we lost to......yup....Gonzaga.

[JTG]

A better way of putting it is to say that losing your coach isn't that big of a deal if you always know who you want and how to get them when they do leave. I also think that Xavier is a place that a lot of really good coaches will want to be at, and there are A LOT of good ones out there. I think Xavier would still be really good with someone like...say Dusty May, or Mark Madsen, or Grant McCasland, or Darian Devries. I also think we'd be able to get someone like that. So...no, I guess I wouldn't be all that concerned if Miller suddenly left.

Other than because of May's recent success, you're probably the only person on here who has a clue who those other three guys are. Miller is a known commodity, those other guys, who knows? There are a number of "lightning in a bottle guys, who disappear down the road.

[zippin']

Emotional attachment....TO COACHES???

I have no emotional attachment whatsoever to specific coaches. None. That's not to say I don't like some of them, but I sure as hell ain't sleeping with any or married to any. Nor am I under any illusions that they have any real emotional attachment to the school or fans. They absolutely do not. If on Sunday night Sean Miller is named the new head coach of Texas, I wouldn't even blink. I don't think that will happen, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if it idd. I also don't think it would matter all that much. Now, if that happens and Xavier isn't prepared for it, THAT would be an issue! Being emotionally attached to coaches and not realizing that they are not emotionally attached to you or your school is a problem. Not being prepared each and every day as to what to do when they do leave is also a problem.

And dude, really....You think it's weird for me to NOT be emotionally attached to a coach I don't even know?? Okay Gonzo...

See Steele, Travis for proof the bolded statement is incorrect.

[drudy23]

Coaches matter. 100%.

I think people get up in arms about coaching changes because they know coaches matter. Great ones minimize the change curve. Sean Miller has X rolling again in less than a year. That is the benefit of a great coach.

[xubrew]

Nobody thought Gonzaga was "done" when Monson left because Gonzaga hadn't actually accomplished anything aside from Monson's very last year. They had made ONE prior NCAA tournament appearance in 1995, and Monson wasnt even the coach.

Nobody was "talking" about how Gonzaga is done. Thats a fake memory cause you dont want to provide a real answer those 2 questions.

Xavier was MUUUUUCH further along as a program than Gonzaga was in 1999. And yet we've had 6 coaches (Prosser, Matta, Miller, Mack, Steele, Miller) while they sped right past us to national prominence.

What your point about Mack leaving exactly? is it that we had a GOOD coach that left and then we tried to find a replacement good coach and it didnt really work out so the program performance suffered. Isnt that MY point?

And jeez, lets go back to Matta. After Matta left, we....didnt make the tournament in Millers first year and then were a 14 seed the next and we lost to......yup....Gonzaga.

The guy who replaced Matta is the guy that's here now!! The guy we ended up with when Matta left is the same guy you're saying that keeping is essential. That is some EXTREMELY conflicting logic! If the result of Matta leaving was that Xavier ended up with a guy they absolutely cannot be successsful without, then isn't that a case of a coach deciding to leave being a GOOD thing?

If a program can't sustain itself through a coaching change, then it's not a strong program. It was simply a so-so program that got lucky and stumbled upon a good coach. I'm saying that's not what Xavier is. But maybe you're right. Maybe Xavier really is just an average program that got lucky. And if that's the case, then I guess Miller would leave because all the success that he's had has been all about him and had nothing to do with Xavier. If he can be successful like that anywhere, then why stay at X when he could just as easily be just as successful some place else?? Is THAT your take?? I don't think it is, but that is kind of what you're saying.

[xubrew]

See Steele, Travis for proof the bolded statement is incorrect.

If that's who Xavier decides to hire next, then I agree that would matter quite a bit.

[GoMuskies]

If that's who Xavier decides to hire next, then I agree that would matter quite a bit.

I wonder who it was the decided to hire Steele? I wonder who it is that would be in charge of hiring someone if Miller left?

[xubrew]

Other than because of May's recent success, you're probably the only person on here who has a clue who those other three guys are. Miller is a known commodity, those other guys, who knows? There are a number of "lightning in a bottle guys, who disappear down the road.

As opposed to all the people who knew who Thad Matta, Sean Miller, and Chris Mack were when they were hired??

Dusty May was a proven recruiter at both LA Tech (when they were actually good) and Florida under Mike White. He then went to a place had no basketball tradition or culture at all and showed steady improvement prior to this year. I don't think that's lightning in a bottle. I think that's success that was built toward.

Darian Devries has won 25+ games the last three years and been to two NCAA Tournaments. One of those years was an at-large. At Drake. They actually were a little disappointing this year, and I think it took them longer than it should have to start playing well, but to win 27 games and call that disappointing makes you kind of wonder just how good they can be when they're not disappointing. Again, that's not a coach finishing in the middle of the pack and then suddenly having one crazy good year. He's had five good years, at DRAKE, who wasn't really all that good even by Missouri Valley standards when he got there.

Mark Madsen...okay, he might be a bit of lightning in a bottle. But, we shall see. And I think Grant MCCasland might be off the table pretty soon anyway because I keep thinking he'll be the next coach at Texas Tech. I wouldn't call him lightning in a bottle either. When you win at that rate for several years at a place that had never really been good before (North Texas) then I wouldn't call that lightning in a bottle. I would call the Porter Mosier situation at Loyola Chicago, where they hovered around the middle of the league for a lot of years, and then had one year where they just absolutely exploded, lightning in a bottle.

[MHettel]

The guy who replaced Matta is the guy that's here now!! The guy we ended up with when Matta left is the same guy you're saying that keeping is essential. That is some EXTREMELY conflicting logic! If the result of Matta leaving was that Xavier ended up with a guy they absolutely cannot be successsful without, then isn't that a case of a coach deciding to leave being a GOOD thing?
.

They guy that replaced Matta was a longtime assistant coach with ZERO head Coaching experience that had to build his own reputation. he brough ZERO cache to the table and took a couple years to get the program running and left it in a GREAT place when he left.

Compare that to Matta himself. He had just 4 years of HC experience and had the benefit of haing DWest and some other great players at XU. he was the hot, cant miss, up and coming coach that stepping into a lukewarm situation at OSU and IMMEDIATELY propelled them to teh top ranks of College basketball for a decade.

Lets go back to Miller. the guy we just hired is certainly NOT the same guy that took over from Matta. The guy we just hired has accomplished virtually everything that can be accomplished short of the Final 4, which last time I checked, only 4 teams out of 350 accomplish each year.

[MHettel]

If a program can't sustain itself through a coaching change, then it's not a strong program. It was simply a so-so program that got lucky and stumbled upon a good coach. I'm saying that's not what Xavier is. But maybe you're right. Maybe Xavier really is just an average program that got lucky. And if that's the case, then I guess Miller would leave because all the success that he's had has been all about him and had nothing to do with Xavier. If he can be successful like that anywhere, then why stay at X when he could just as easily be just as successful some place else?? Is THAT your take?? I don't think it is, but that is kind of what you're saying.


uh, thats not my take at all. And I'm confused at why you would arrive at such a conclusion. This all started when you declared that you were an android and had zero emotion about coaches coming and going. I questioned how you can seperate the sport itself from such an essential part of the sport.

Thats like saying you love chiken noodle soup, but you dont liek chicken broth? It makes no sense.

[xubrew]

They guy that replaced Matta was a longtime assistant coach with ZERO head Coaching experience that had to build his own reputation. he brough ZERO cache to the table and took a couple years to get the program running and left it in a GREAT place when he left.

Compare that to Matta himself. He had just 4 years of HC experience and had the benefit of haing DWest and some other great players at XU. he was the hot, cant miss, up and coming coach that stepping into a lukewarm situation at OSU and IMMEDIATELY propelled them to teh top ranks of College basketball for a decade.

Lets go back to Miller. the guy we just hired is certainly NOT the same guy that took over from Matta. The guy we just hired has accomplished virtually everything that can be accomplished short of the Final 4, which last time I checked, only 4 teams out of 350 accomplish each year.

So what you're saying is that Xavier was able to hire a damn good head coach (I agree), but won't ever be able to do it again if he leaves??

You pointed out how Miller had zero coaching experience and brought zero cache to the table. Let's say he'd been someplace else, like, say....George Washington. Does he take them to an Elite Eight and a Sweet Sixteen? Would they be in the Big East instead of Xavier?? Did Xavier's program have anything to do with why some coach with no experience was able to be successful?? Or would he have just done that at any other average A10 level program? I mean, if Xavier owes him everything and he owes Xavier nothing, then you're right. Xavier is in trouble. Long term coaching stints with one singular program are very much the exception and not the rule.

....and check the 350 again. It's 363. Well, I guess 362 now that SFPK has closed up the shop.

[xubrew]

uh, thats not my take at all. And I'm confused at why you would arrive at such a conclusion. This all started when you declared that you were an android and had zero emotion about coaches coming and going. I questioned how you can seperate the sport itself from such an essential part of the sport.

Thats like saying you love chiken noodle soup, but you dont liek chicken broth? It makes no sense.

You're seem to think Xavier will crash and burn if Sean Miller suddenly leaves, and I'm saying that it wouldn't. I think there will always be really good coaches that would want to come to Xavier because they realize that it is a damn good program.

[xubrew]

I wonder who it was the decided to hire Steele? I wonder who it is that would be in charge of hiring someone if Miller left?

If it's the same person, then I can understand being concerned. Maybe the lesson that was learned from that is that instead of just hiring from within...open it up next time. I think Xavier would be amazed at all the good coaches who would reach out if it was a truly open search. But, my overall original point was that coaches will suddenly leave, they're not emotionally attached, and schools need to be ready at all times for that to happen. Because sooner or later it will.

[MHettel]

You're seem to think Xavier will crash and burn if Sean Miller suddenly leaves, and I'm saying that it wouldn't. I think there will always be really good coaches that would want to come to Xavier because they realize that it is a damn good program.

No, I dont think that. I think keeping a coach REALLY limits the likelihood that you will hire a dud. And I think even if you DO make the right hire, it might result in a temporary setback.

As satisified as I am about playing in the Sweet 16 tonight, it's fair to say we have just come off our most disappointing 5 year stretch in the last 35 years.

Gonzaga is light years ahead of us at the point, and they have had the same guy at the helm for 24 years. They have NEVER missed a tournament with Few. They just made their EIGHTH straight Sweet 16.

I dont know how you keep being so wrong about what I'm thinking.

[MHettel]

....and check the 350 again. It's 363. Well, I guess 362 now that SFPK has closed up the shop.

Well, it used to be 330. So, since Miller has coached over a 20 year period (where it wasnt 363 or 362 or whatever), I kinda just took a round number. And the REAL key number to takeaway from that is 4, not 350 or 362. if it were just RANDOM you'd have a 1.14% chance (350) or a 1.10% chance (362).

Talk about splitting hairs.

[xavierj]

You're seem to think Xavier will crash and burn if Sean Miller suddenly leaves, and I'm saying that it wouldn't. I think there will always be really good coaches that would want to come to Xavier because they realize that it is a damn good program.

You can’t keep changing coaches. I get Xavier won’t have to worry about that but let’s go back to Sean’s first time around. If he never left Xavier would have already been to a final 4. I think with stability and Sean Xavier is going to be a final 4 threat just about every year. It may not be this year or next, but it’s coming.

[xubrew]

You can’t keep changing coaches. I get Xavier won’t have to worry about that but let’s go back to Sean’s first time around. If he never left Xavier would have already been to a final 4. I think with stability and Sean Xavier is going to be a final 4 threat just about every year. It may not be this year or next, but it’s coming.

The vast majority of places oftentimes don't have a choice. 11 of the 16 schools that received protected seeds have fairly recently needed to change coaches. This entire thread, which is rather long, is about schools who are having to change coaches. My point is that it can happen to anyone at any time, so you better be ready when it does. If you are, then it doesn't mean you can't continue to be successful. Being "emotionally attached" to a coach is exactly what you should never be. They're not emotionally attached to you and they absolutely will leave if something comes along that they like better.

[xubrew]

Well, it used to be 330. So, since Miller has coached over a 20 year period (where it wasnt 363 or 362 or whatever), I kinda just took a round number. And the REAL key number to takeaway from that is 4, not 350 or 362. if it were just RANDOM you'd have a 1.14% chance (350) or a 1.10% chance (362).

Talk about splitting hairs.

More like having fun than splitting hairs. It's an always changing number that is always seared into my head.

[xavierj]

The vast majority of places oftentimes don't have a choice. 11 of the 16 schools that received protected seeds have fairly recently needed to change coaches. This entire thread, which is rather long, is about schools who are having to change coaches. My point is that it can happen to anyone at any time, so you better be ready when it does. If you are, then it doesn't mean you can't continue to be successful. Being "emotionally attached" to a coach is exactly what you should never be. They're not emotionally attached to you and they absolutely will leave if something comes along that they like better.

Oh I agree with that. Just think Xavier is in a different situation now. I would never attach emotionally to a coach but Sean understands the other side and he is in a really good situation.

[xubrew]

Oh I agree with that. Just think Xavier is in a different situation now. I would never attach emotionally to a coach but Sean understands the other side and he is in a really good situation.

I agree with that too.

This all started with a bit of an offhanded comment of "even if on Sunday he was announced as the new head coach at Texas, I still wouldn't be shocked and really wouldn't be worried."

For the record, I DO NOT think that will happen. I was really just trying to make the point that when it comes to selfish people acting selfishly, which is pretty much how I would describe nearly ever men's basketball coach I've ever come across, nothing shocks me anymore. Not even something like that. I can't control it, so why even worry about it??

[paulxu]

I don't know about coaches.
But I have an emotional attachment to Xavier University.
I hope that's OK.

[XUGRAD80]

I’d just like to point out that the INTERIM coach for tonight’s opponent wasn’t the head coach at the beginning of the season. That’s right, he took over prior to the December 12th game and wasn’t even named interim until early January.

So, is Texas good because of him? Or in spite of him? Guess it depends on your take but they were picked 12th in the country, and 3rd in the B12 in the preseason, so some people thought that they would be pretty good this year.

Maybe, just maybe, it’s a little bit of both……coaching and the players?

I’ve always said that coaches get to much of the blame when they lose and not enough love when they win. We always hear about how a player had a great game when the team wins. But why did he have such a great game? Was it because the coach put him in post here he could excel? Is it because a coach taught him how to play better? My take is that it has to be at least a little bit of that…..combined with a players desire to get better and play better…..but it always seems to be the player that gets all the accolades after a great game.

Or as one hall of fame baseball manager once said…..”I managed great, but boy did they play bad.” Care to guess who that was?

[xubrew]

That had to be Casey Stengel!

[paulxu]

manager once said…..”I managed great, but boy did they play bad.”

Sounds like the last UC coach.

[XUGRAD80]

That had to be Casey Stengel!


Bingo! Even the great Casey had some bad years and bad teams. Did he stop being a genius (you could ask him and he would tell you he was) when his teams were bad? Or was it players like Mantle, Maris, Berra, etc. that made him one?

The players of the Big Red Machine told Sparky Anderson to just keep his legs out of the aisle so as not to trip anyone, and they would put him the HOF. I remember “Sparky, who?” very clearly. Nobody knew who he was when he was hired.

Xavier is a program now. Even 4 relatively down years in a row doesn’t change that. Miller is a GREAT coach IMO, the best X has ever had, but when he leaves (and he will one day, either by retirement or another way) I trust that the program will continue to achieve at a high level. Meanwhile I’ll just enjoy it while we have it.

[XUGRAD80]

Sounds like the last UC coach.

He’s also been known to say that the players played well and the refs had it out for them. Or that the opposing fans were terrible. Or the airlines lost their shoes. Or, any other excuse that anyone has ever thought of or uttered. It’s never HIS fault.

[xudash]

Regardless of how long a coach stays at one place or the reasons why he leaves a particular place, CONTINUITY is a huge thing - if a coach willing to stay is effective. There is no other way to look at it.

Few and Wright prove that. And, yes, they are the exceptions to the rule.

[Masterofreality]

My only contribution to this discussion is “Programs” are only as good as the Guy in Charge running it. Even a blue blood.
I submit the name Billy Gillespie. “Program” - Kentucky.
The current state of Louisewer is another reminder.
Damn. It’s STILL 3:45 until game time. Arrrrhhgh!!

[xubrew]

Who wins the race? The jockey or the horse? You need both, but if the horse can’t run then it really doesn’t matter how good the jockey is. If the horse can run, a lot of good jockeys will want to ride it. You need to get a good one if your current one leaves, but you should be able to if you know what you’re doing.

[Xville]

All we need for evidence to show how important a coach is, is to see the difference in outcomes between last year and this year. I think the coach means a ton more at this level than the talent.

[xudash]

Who wins the race? The jockey or the horse? You need both, but if the horse can’t run then it really doesn’t matter how good the jockey is. If the horse can run, a lot of good jockeys will want to ride it. You need to get a good one if your current one leaves, but you should be able to if you know what you’re doing.

In basketball, is the jockey also management/the owner? Who is deciding which horse(s) to ride? And they have to be appealing to the “horses” in this case.

Yes, you need both, but the “jockey” builds the ability to win the race.

[MHettel]

Interesting analogy.

My visual on this is a jockey without a horse lined up against a horse without a jockey.

They jockey wins, right? The horse has no idea what to do in that case

[Mel Cooley XU'81]

Who wins the race? The jockey or the horse? You need both, but if the horse can’t run then it really doesn’t matter how good the jockey is. If the horse can run, a lot of good jockeys will want to ride it. You need to get a good one if your current one leaves, but you should be able to if you know what you’re doing.

Did somebody say horse racing!

I like the 4 in tomorrow’s Derby Prep Jeff Ruby Steaks at lavishly renovated Turfway!

Wesley Ward is the trainer , btw. 6/1 ML!

[XUGRAD80]

A great jockey on a nag with fleas ain’t gonna finish in the money. A great horse with an idiot for a trainer or jockey ain’t going to either.

[xudash]

This is exactly why we were required to take metaphysics.

[XUGRAD80]

This is exactly why we were required to take metaphysics.

Dr. D! Can’t say I really learned any great truths in the class, but he made it interesting.

[paulxu]

Tried to log on to the Holyland site, but forgot my password.
They also wanted an answer to a security question, to prove you weren't a robot.

The question: Ed Cooley coaches the Providence _______? :crazy:

[xubrew]

So if the plan was for Jim Larranaga to retire and for Dusty May to take the job at Miami, then that will certainly make things interesting at the Final Four.

[Xavgrad08]

Buffalo writer Jonah Bronstein tweeted that Xavier assistant Adam Cohen turned down the head coaching position at Buffalo.

[X-band '01]

I wasn't aware Buffalo had a vacancy.

[xavierj]

Buffalo writer Jonah Bronstein tweeted that Xavier assistant Adam Cohen turned down the head coaching position at Buffalo.

Adam went to Buffalo for a minute and is from Buffalo. That one is interesting but glad he will be back with Xavier.

[GoMuskies]

I wasn't aware Buffalo had a vacancy.

Details, details

[smileyy]

Mike Anderson suing St. John's. They really screwed him over and run the risk of being seriously broken by the suit. That said, I have no doubt they'll settle.

[X-band '01]

If they were really interested in settling, they would have just worked from the $11.4 million he was due. Now he's suing for treble damages; hence the total $45.6 million price tag now in play.

[Masterofreality]

If they were really interested in settling, they would have just worked from the $11.4 million he was due. Now he's suing for treble damages; hence the total $45.6 million price tag now in play.

Based upon that all access game, St. John’s rightly fired him for cause-cause he’s a lousy coach!

[xubrew]

I am also suing Saint John’s for $46 million dollars.

[paulxu]

Would Christi Mack move to Morgantown?

[D-West & PO-Z]

I get the sense Mack has zero interest in coaching for at least the next several years. I wouldn't be surprised if he never coaches again. I could see him getting back into it but he seems to be happy with the freedom to spend this time with his family.

[bleedXblue]

I get the sense Mack has zero interest in coaching for at least the next several years. I wouldn't be surprised if he never coaches again. I could see him getting back into it but he seems to be happy with the freedom to spend this time with his family.

Lord know he doesnt need the money. I think he likely cleared north of 10M for 4 years at UL.

[sirthought]

On the other hand, Huggins has a legit talented team coming in this year. Outside of UK or Duke, few teams will have 5 transfers that elevate every position. I think a lot of coaches would be tempted to look at WVU just because of who is playing.

[X-band '01]

That's also assuming they're able to keep everyone aboard.

[bleedXblue]

On the other hand, Huggins has a legit talented team coming in this year. Outside of UK or Duke, few teams will have 5 transfers that elevate every position. I think a lot of coaches would be tempted to look at WVU just because of who is playing.

yeah I dont think so You dont look at a job for wha'ts there for 1 year.

And no way all of those guys stay......

The big question is who wants to live in Morgantown, WV

Good conference for sure

[Xville]

Great basketball conference, good facilities, good basketball team, rabid fanbase. Morgantown is actually pretty nice, have you been to some of the sec cities that great coaches are at? Not exactly metropolitan cities.

[Xville]

Welp, Louisville will be looking for a new coach soon.

[GoMuskies]

Welp, Louisville will be looking for a new coach soon.

Congrats to St. Albert the Great and St. X legend (though he never made the team there) Drew Cooper on going home and beating the Cards.

[GoMuskies]

Bob Knight is off to that great coaching carousel in the sky.

[noteggs]

Rip bk!

[MADXSTER]

Looks like Kenny Payne at Louisville may be out. Had a throw down with one of his players in the locker room. per X

[GoMuskies]

I don't think there's much to the rumors of a fight with a player...but I DO think that if Louisville loses to UMBC on Monday that Payne will be fired the next day.

[X-band '01]

I don't think there's much to the rumors of a fight with a player...but I DO think that if Louisville loses to UMBC on Monday that Payne will be fired the next day.

That sounds more like something Sean Woods would have done back in the day.

[Xavgrad08]

I don't think there's much to the rumors of a fight with a player...but I DO think that if Louisville loses to UMBC on Monday that Payne will be fired the next day.

Going to be really interesting who Louisville goes after when the job officially opens.

[GIMMFD]

Looks like Kenny Payne at Louisville may be out. Had a throw down with one of his players in the locker room. per X

I never understood how a coach could get to this level, like I understand getting angry/pissed off, but fighting a kid that's 18-22?? Weird.

[GIMMFD]

Great basketball conference, good facilities, good basketball team, rabid fanbase. Morgantown is actually pretty nice, have you been to some of the sec cities that great coaches are at? Not exactly metropolitan cities.

Morgantown isn't terrible, it's definitely a college town, pretty hilly, not much outside of WVU/High Street, most of the prominent money making people in the area live at the Cheat Lake area outside of town, which is very nice. I think WVU is an attractive job (complete bias of course), the B12 is a great conference like you said, a good enough team, and fan support. I think the Coliseum needs a face lift, it's a bit rundown, but ultimately you can succeed there and field competitive teams.

[MHettel]

Morgantown isn't terrible, it's definitely a college town, pretty hilly, not much outside of WVU/High Street, most of the prominent money making people in the area live at the Cheat Lake area outside of town, which is very nice. I think WVU is an attractive job (complete bias of course), the B12 is a great conference like you said, a good enough team, and fan support. I think the Coliseum needs a face lift, it's a bit rundown, but ultimately you can succeed there and field competitive teams.

To clarify, it IS in West Virginia, right?

[Masterofreality]

Looks like Kenny Payne at Louisville may be out. Had a throw down with one of his players in the locker room. per X


I never understood how a coach could get to this level, like I understand getting angry/pissed off, but fighting a kid that's 18-22?? Weird.

Remember that Kenny Payne was the “People’s Choice” of the U of L fan base.
They got what they deserved. Fans should not pick coaches.

[Xville]

Remember that Kenny Payne was the “People’s Choice” of the U of L fan base.
They got what they deserved. Fans should not pick coaches.

It was a specific piece of the alumni.

There are a lot of rumblings around here that the staff is flat out lazy. Not doing the things that are basic requirements of the job. Honestly, I don’t think payne ever wanted the job.

[GIMMFD]

To clarify, it IS in West Virginia, right?

Haha touche, but I swear West Virginia isn't too bad of a place!!!


It was a specific piece of the alumni.

There are a lot of rumblings around here that the staff is flat out lazy. Not doing the things that are basic requirements of the job. Honestly, I don’t think payne ever wanted the job.

It's weird, because didn't everyone assume he wanted his own head coach job after being Cal's 2 for a long time? Or maybe he just got sick of Cal? The Athletic actually had a great article on Calipari that was worth the read, but I just don't know how you don't want that job if you're Payne. Maybe I'm cut from a different cloth, but I love Xavier, and would love to work in that type of capacity for my alma mater. I don't see how he's not trying to do damn near everything to get Louisville back to prominence again.

[Xville]

Haha touche, but I swear West Virginia isn't too bad of a place!!!



It's weird, because didn't everyone assume he wanted his own head coach job after being Cal's 2 for a long time? Or maybe he just got sick of Cal? The Athletic actually had a great article on Calipari that was worth the read, but I just don't know how you don't want that job if you're Payne. Maybe I'm cut from a different cloth, but I love Xavier, and would love to work in that type of capacity for my alma mater. I don't see how he's not trying to do damn near everything to get Louisville back to prominence again.

You’d think so but I really don’t think he cares. Compare that to brohm, the football coach, and the difference is astounding. Brohm you can tell absolutely loves anything and everything Louisville. Maybe it’s because he was born and raised here too and that’s partly the difference, that and the difference in their personalities.

[GIMMFD]

You’d think so but I really don’t think he cares. Compare that to brohm, the football coach, and the difference is astounding. Brohm you can tell absolutely loves anything and everything Louisville. Maybe it’s because he was born and raised here too and that’s partly the difference, that and the difference in their personalities.

Man that's super interesting, I guess some people do just look at their alma mater as "yeah I went there," but I figured it'd be different as a athlete representing the university, I mean a place like Louisville has the resources to succeed, sure the pressure can be high with fans, doing a bad job is one thing, but to completely lack the motivation to succeed is something else. Appreciate the insight.

[Xville]

Man that's super interesting, I guess some people do just look at their alma mater as "yeah I went there," but I figured it'd be different as a athlete representing the university, I mean a place like Louisville has the resources to succeed, sure the pressure can be high with fans, doing a bad job is one thing, but to completely lack the motivation to succeed is something else. Appreciate the insight.

Certainly take what I say with a grain of salt lol. Maybe it’s just his personality, but to me, he just doesn’t seem excited by what he is doing.

Maybe all of this will change if they start winning, but the local sports people around here are starting to leak things and it’s not a good.

Even when he was hired, there was a significant portion of the fanbase that was lukewarm on him. First time head coach in charge of a program like Louisville doesn’t scream probable success story.

[GoMuskies]

There's a guy on the Louisville board who does the math using Sagarin ratings to project Louisville basketball's results through the year. Here's where his math let him on Louisville's chances to go undefeated. Presumably these are real words and real numbers.

Odds of entering ACC Tournament 31-0: 128 octillion-1
Odds of entering NCAA Tournament 34-0: 27 nonillion-1
Odds of being 40-0 National Champions: 169 nonillion-1

[MHettel]

There's a guy on the Louisville board who does the math using Sagarin ratings to project Louisville basketball's results through the year. Here's where his math let him on Louisville's chances to go undefeated. Presumably these are real words and real numbers.

Odds of entering ACC Tournament 31-0: 128 octillion-1
Odds of entering NCAA Tournament 34-0: 27 nonillion-1
Odds of being 40-0 National Champions: 169 nonillion-1

I calculated 128.1 Octillion - 1. I was off by point 1 Octillion.

[Xavgrad08]

Louisville lost to Chattanooga last night. Chattanooga might be good, but that should not happen at Louisville. I think it is inevitable Payne gets fired. Question is do they do it before the end of the season to get a jump on the coaching search?

[XUGRAD80]

Louisville lost to Chattanooga last night. Chattanooga might be good, but that should not happen at Louisville. I think it is inevitable Payne gets fired. Question is do they do it before the end of the season to get a jump on the coaching search?

I’d say that he is on very thin ice and the temperature is rising! Doubt he makes it through the season.

[GoMuskies]

Louisville lost to Chattanooga last night. Chattanooga might be good, but that should not happen at Louisville. I think it is inevitable Payne gets fired. Question is do they do it before the end of the season to get a jump on the coaching search?

Took a miracle to beat UMBC, and they were down 20 to Chattanooga. It's going to happen soon.

[bleedXblue]

I’d say that he is on very thin ice and the temperature is rising! Doubt he makes it through the season.

If a University ever deserved such a sad state that its in right how its Louserville. Horrendous leadership and a lack of institutional control.

[X-band '01]

Meanwhile, about 1600 people showed up for Miami's titanic struggle against Texas State. Did they realize they had an 11 AM tip?

[paulxu]

Jimbo skates with $76 million.

[JTG]

Jimbo skates with $76 million.

?????

[noteggs]

?????

Jimbo Fisher’s buyout

[xudash]

Jimbo Fisher’s buyout

It’s simply irresponsible.

[paulxu]

Today's fun quote:

More proof God has a sense of humor. All these Texas oil and gas donors who complain about welfare recepients getting paid not to work are about to pay Jimbo Fisher $76 million not to work.

[GoMuskies]

What nonsense are you on about now?

[paulxu]

Come on...that was funny !

[94GRAD]

What nonsense are you on about now?

It's a jab at the TA&M alumni who are paying Jimbo Fisher $77.5 million dollars to not work for them anymore. Actually, very funny

[GoMuskies]

They actually paid Jimbo that money not to take the LSU job.

[X-band '01]

Today's fun quote:

More proof God has a sense of humor. All these Texas oil and gas donors who complain about welfare recepients getting paid not to work are about to pay Jimbo Fisher $76 million not to work.

Still probably couch change for a few wealthy Aggie alums.

[xudash]

Come on...that was funny !

That was funny. Kudos.

But I can’t take my mind off the idea that at least $50 million in funding for academics, and that is still too small a figure in this case, is being pissed away for the benefit of this one fool.

[UCGRAD4X]

That was funny. Kudos.

But I can’t take my mind off the idea that at least $50 million in funding for academics, and that is still too small a figure in this case, is being pissed away for the benefit of this one fool.

Who exactly is the fool in this scenario?

[xudash]

Who exactly is the fool in this scenario?

Touché.

[drudy23]

I see that the fighting Travis Steele's are off to a stellar 0-2 start (Evansville and Texas State).

He might find himself in the carousel yet again.

[GoMuskies]

Somehow things have managed to get even MORE embarrassing at Louisville.

The program announced to the media that one of its players, Koron Davis, was transferring.

https://twitter.com/rickbozich/status/1735025657652945200?s=20

Problem is, the player apparently isn't planning to transfer.

https://twitter.com/KoronDavis/status/1735041567113584943?s=20

[MHettel]

Somehow things have managed to get even MORE embarrassing at Louisville.

The program announced to the media that one of its players, Koron Davis, was transferring.

https://twitter.com/rickbozich/status/1735025657652945200?s=20

Problem is, the player apparently isn't planning to transfer.

https://twitter.com/KoronDavis/status/1735041567113584943?s=20

Hard to believe that Mack left XU for that shitshow. I mean, he had his issues, but the die was cast already. Pitinos mess and the inept admin had too much momentum and Mack got swallowed up in it. Hiring Payne seemed shortsighted and he’s apparently a nitwit.

They may give GTown a run for their money for the title of “most tarnished brand” in college bball

[Xville]

Tonight should be the final nail in the coffin for king Kenny.

Will be interested to see who they now grab. Guessing they actually open the wallet this time instead of trying to go the cheap unproven route.

[xubrew]

I believe Louisville is now 10-44 since Chris Mack left, and that their record in home buy games is somewhere around 6-6. Whatever was wrong must not have been him.

Hiring Kenny Payne was one of the most Louisville things ever! Firing him would also be one of the most Louisville things ever. The only thing more Louisville than that would be to hire Rick Pitino again! THAT would actually be the most Louisville thing that has ever happened! it would also be the most Rick Pitino thing that has ever happened!! In fact, when you think about it, I don't know if there is another outcome that is more possible than that one!!

[GoMuskies]

Firing him is the only rational course of action. There were 2500 people at the game last night. That arena was supposed to be financed by the taxes from the surrounding area (bars, restaurants, etc. in the area). Louisville consistently drew 19,000 fans night after night after night in Freedom Hall under Crum and Pitino no matter how good or bad they were. So no brainer to expect 20,000 a night on the regular to fill up the bars and restaurants to pay for their building.

Uh, yeah.

[drudy23]

Greed has taken U of L down.

Everyone getting their piece of the pie has become more important than success.

I'm half convinced Mack was more than happy to depart with his mega millions.

[Xville]

Greed has taken U of L down.

Everyone getting their piece of the pie has become more important than success.

I'm half convinced Mack was more than happy to depart with his mega millions.

Louisville has just made two bad hires in a row. Mack was not a good fit and Payne was an awful decision ala Steele. They will be fine once they make a good one.

Same thing happened with their football program. They now made a good hire and starting next year will be fighting for a playoff spot ever year for the foreseeable future.

[Xville]

I believe Louisville is now 10-44 since Chris Mack left, and that their record in home buy games is somewhere around 6-6. Whatever was wrong must not have been him.

Hiring Kenny Payne was one of the most Louisville things ever! Firing him would also be one of the most Louisville things ever. The only thing more Louisville than that would be to hire Rick Pitino again! THAT would actually be the most Louisville thing that has ever happened! it would also be the most Rick Pitino thing that has ever happened!! In fact, when you think about it, I don't know if there is another outcome that is more possible than that one!!

I didn’t like mack as x’s coach as I think he’s a smug prick.

That type of smugness doesn’t play well at Louisville or any top program unless you’re making final fours and/or winning championships. I wouldn’t say he was the problem but he wasn’t the solution either. At a program like Louisville, you gotta be a salesperson and deliver on what you are selling.

Kenny is just not very bright and a horrible communicator.

[xubrew]

I didn’t like mack as x’s coach as I think he’s a smug prick.

That type of smugness doesn’t play well at Louisville or any top program unless you’re making final fours and/or winning championships. I wouldn’t say he was the problem but he wasn’t the solution either. At a program like Louisville, you gotta be a salesperson and deliver on what you are selling.

Kenny is just not very bright and a horrible communicator.

Louisville's biggest problem for the last six or seven years has been Louisville. Wherever they go, there they are! I'm not even sure if it's the athletic department anymore. Did Heird even want to hire Kenny Payne?? Or was he just told by the VIPs that that's who THEY wanted him to hire, and if he did it they'd go from interim AD to AD?? I'm trying to think of the last time they made a decision in regards to basketball that wasn't completely moronic, and I can't remember exactly when that was.

[xubrew]

Firing him is the only rational course of action. There were 2500 people at the game last night. That arena was supposed to be financed by the taxes from the surrounding area (bars, restaurants, etc. in the area). Louisville consistently drew 19,000 fans night after night after night in Freedom Hall under Crum and Pitino no matter how good or bad they were. So no brainer to expect 20,000 a night on the regular to fill up the bars and restaurants to pay for their building.

Uh, yeah.

They need the YUM Center in India to help disperse the overcrowding and population density that exists there.

[GoMuskies]

Same thing happened with their football program. They now made a good hire and starting next year will be fighting for a playoff spot ever year for the foreseeable future.

I appreciate Jeff Brohm, but I'd pump the breaks on that one just a touch. I suspect they'll still have their share of down/mediocre years. But he should have them REGULARLY in the conversation for top 12.

[Xville]

Louisville's biggest problem for the last six or seven years has been Louisville. Wherever they go, there they are! I'm not even sure if it's the athletic department anymore. Did Heird even want to hire Kenny Payne?? Or was he just told by the VIPs that that's who THEY wanted him to hire, and if he did it they'd go from interim AD to AD?? I'm trying to think of the last time they made a decision in regards to basketball that wasn't completely moronic, and I can't remember exactly when that was.

Heird is a smart guy who didn’t have the status to tell the you know whos no at the time. He does now. I think they will hit on this next hire because it will be heird’s decision.


The athletic department is in good hands.

[Xville]

I appreciate Jeff Brohm, but I'd pump the breaks on that one just a touch. I suspect they'll still have their share of down/mediocre years. But he should have them REGULARLY in the conversation for top 12.

To me, fighting for a playoff spot is being in the top 25. Personally, I think it will be extremely rare for them to be lower than that any year. Now, that’s assuming the acc stays in its current configuration. If somehow Clemson, Florida state leave, then all bets are off.

[xubrew]

Heird is a smart guy who didn’t have the status to tell the you know whos no at the time. He does now. I think they will hit on this next hire because it will be heird’s decision.


The athletic department is in good hands.

IF it is his decision, then I agree. I'm just not entirely sure that it is. I sometimes wonder if one of the reasons he was hired was because the you-know-whos looked at him and said "Ah, now HERE is someone we can use as a puppet! We'll tell him we'll make him the permanent AD so long as he does whatever WE want!"

When I see Louisville finally make a smart decision, I'll start to rethink that.

[GoMuskies]

Louisville is the anti-Xavier. Great women's program, embarrassingly awful men's program. No offense to the ladies, but I think we win that exchange.

[Xville]

IF it is his decision, then I agree. I'm just not entirely sure that it is. I sometimes wonder if one of the reasons he was hired was because the you-know-whos looked at him and said "Ah, now HERE is someone we can use as a puppet! We'll tell him we'll make him the permanent AD so long as he does whatever WE want!"

When I see Louisville finally make a smart decision, I'll start to rethink that.

I have had some conversations with him ( my bro in laws kids and heird’s kids are at the same grade school) and I get the sense he’s very intelligent and that it will be his decision. We shall see though. All their other programs are doing extremely well across the board.

[xubrew]

I have had some conversations with him ( my bro in laws kids and heird’s kids are at the same grade school) and I get the sense he’s very intelligent and that it will be his decision. We shall see though. All their other programs are doing extremely well across the board.

We shall see. Brohm was a good hire, but Brohm is also Louisville royalty. So, was he hired because he was a fantastic coach that happened to be Louisville royalty, or was he hired because he was Louisville royalty, but also happened to be a good football coach?? Kenny Payne was Louisville royalty as well. He just happens to not be a great basketball coach. He is, in fact, a TERRIBLE basketball coach! A great guy, but about as qualified to be a head coach as I am to be an astro-physicist.

If Louisville's next hire as basketball coach ends up being Milt Wagner, then we'll know it was NOT Heird's decision.

[GoMuskies]

LOL, Kenny Payne was NOT Louisville royalty. He was a pretty good former player.

Now Milt is Louisville royalty. His kids and grandkids picking Calipari over Louisville is a bit annoying, though.

[xubrew]

LOL, Kenny Payne was NOT Louisville royalty. He was a pretty good former player.

Now Milt is Louisville royalty. His kids and grandkids picking Calipari over Louisville is a bit annoying, though.

Okay, well...

Would you say his level or royalty at Louisville was about the same as Mike Woodson's is/was at Indiana?? Perhaps not the king, but definitely a duke of some sort?? And that's LARGELY why he got the job??

If not, then that's even MORE discouraging!!! Of all the coaches that Louisville could have attracted, they looked at all of them equally and without favor and decided Kenny Payne was the guy. Okay...good job!